WEBVTT - Part One: Kissinger 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.800 Hi everybody. Robert Evans here and my novel After the 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.800 Revolution is available for pre order now from a k 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.480 press dot org. Now, if you go to a k 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.880 press dot org you can find After the Revolution. Just 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.760 google a k press dot org After the Revolution you'll 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.840 find a list of participating indie bookstores selling my book. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.439 And if you pre order now from either these independent 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.840 bookstores or from a k Press, you'll get a custom 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.440 signed copy of the book, which I think is pretty cool. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.320 You can also preorder it in physical or in kindle 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.440 a form from Amazon or pretty much wherever books are sold. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:36.040 So please google a k press after the Revolution um 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.400 or find an indie bookstore in your area and pre 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.600 order it. You'll get assigned a copy and you'll make 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:50.800 me very happy. Sophie, this plate of behind the Bastards 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.600 is so heavy as we walk through this hallway. Oh 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:59.360 my gosh, is that David Anthony and Gareth Reynolds with 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.640 with a with a heavy plate of of the dollarp? 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.399 Oh no, oh no, I'm losing control. Oh god, you 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:12.720 guys are slipping too. How was how was that? I 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:18.680 couldn't disagree more? That was the most organic, just real thing. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.000 I think I've ever heard that. It was, yeah, like 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.480 you're the only thing I'm noticing is you didn't have plates. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:30.959 So I'm wondering how I was wondering as I started it, 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:32.520 are they going to join in? Or am I going 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.559 to just have to commit fully to this? And now 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.400 that's something where if it's me, I just let you 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.560 go and then let you have I was a dog 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.200 in a yard that wanted to leave it, but I 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.440 was like, I get I'm not supposed to leave, so 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:51.440 I wanted to join. Oh gosh, well this is this 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.440 is just a wonderful time. Obviously. Again you are Dave 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.440 Anthony Gareth Reynolds, hosts of The Dollarp, the podcast that 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.680 invented being funny about history on the Internet. Um, thank 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.160 you so much for for sitting down with us today. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.640 Thank you boys. For a long time, I've wanted to 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.520 do something with you so and we've talked about this, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.399 but yeah, we have. This has been like bouncing back 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.680 and forth for a while and it was just one 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.560 of those things where it's like, well, when we finally 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.200 do our six part series on Henry Kissinger, it's going 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:30.600 to be the worst thing we've ever had to do. Therapy. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.920 I have a therapy ses right afterwards, Dave married a 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.120 therapist in preparation. That's good, really putting in the deep 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.600 work to make this, to make this series of success. Um. 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.520 So my working title for this, which they probably won't 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.280 let us use, is Henry Kissinger Comma a big sack 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:53.080 of donkey balls? Um before can we do that? So funny? 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.720 Perfectly fine? What are you talking about? Um? What do 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.920 you guys know? Like I kind of think we may 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.400 be it's a good idea to start with, like, what 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.360 what's your your cliffs notes? We'll have We'll have you 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.800 do it, Dave, because because you're the one who reads 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:12.119 things normally, I mean I think that's of Kissinger. Yeah, 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.040 you know Kissinger, the thing that you know obviously stands 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.360 out of Vietnam and camp and Cambodia, and you know 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.919 that's just reprehensible beyond all words. But he's really been 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.280 a part of just so many horrific foreign policy decisions 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.800 and had his He's always getting in there. He's always 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.600 a part of the business release was. I don't know 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.840 if he is now, but for a long time he 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.200 was always a guy who would come in and go, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.520 why don't you do the worst thing. Yeah, and that's um, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.120 that's the thing that's that's interesting and even a little 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.760 bit difficult about talking about him because he's not one 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.080 of these guys. He's not like you can't say with 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.200 him like you can without Saddam who's saying like, oh, 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.200 he ordered he started this war on this date, you know, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.400 or he um, he ordered this man. I mean, you 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.840 can actually, Um, but he's he's not like he's not 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.200 on paper supposed to be a warlord or an elected leader. 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.920 The thing that he is good at doing is getting 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.760 the ability to do stuff that warlords and dictators do 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.720 by sitting in the back rooms with people who are 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.880 the ones who on paper hold the power and convincing 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.600 them to let him do stuff. Um. And he's the 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.159 best at that there's ever been. We've had a couple 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.160 of figures on our podcast who I would relate to like, 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.360 and I would say, maybe Kissinger is like the war 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:32.919 Crimes Forrest Gump, where it's like it's kind of you're like, oh, yeah, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.120 he was there, invented shit happens. I don't know that phrase. Yeah, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.640 that's that's incredibly that's that might. I mean, that's honestly 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:47.920 a better title than I mean, obviously, Forrest Gump is 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.800 blameless and Kissinger is not. But it does get at 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:52.920 the fact that he's just like, he's just there. He's 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.760 just in every fucking photo of like guys doing a 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.440 war crime. Like it is baffling the number of things 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.240 he's connected to. I should probably just start stop selling it, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.120 but I do kind of want to talk about the 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.000 fact that he is. He is this kind of back 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.440 room figure in a lot of the worst things that 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.800 happened in the twentieth century. Because we're going to spend 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.000 episode one. By the time this episode is over, he's not, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.760 you know, in the White House, He's not running shit. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.000 This is an episode where we talk about like his 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:26.479 early life and his ideological roots, because that's what that's 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.279 what underpins all of the things that he does. He's 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.080 not a guy people talk about like what Kissinger believes, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:33.920 and Kissinger himself has written a bunch of books about 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:38.080 what he believes. My opinion, as an amateur guy studying 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.320 this dude, is that I don't think he believes things 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.359 as much as he beliefs and ideas are weapons that 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.960 he uses in order to get people to let him 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.920 do horrible things. And he is the master of using 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.279 beliefs and and moving between different groups of people who 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.200 on paper are ideologically opposed and getting them all to 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.520 agree with whatever bullshit he wants to do, because he's 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.000 really good bit talking about ideas like a fucking philosopher, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.440 Like that's his superpower. They might just have trouble understanding him. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.719 I know I have whatever. What did we agree to? 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.600 Oh god, I was going to ask Gareth before we 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.480 get started. Here is your German accent locked and loaded? 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.279 I mean, listen as to the disgust of the German people, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.479 it is. That's fine, that's fine they I think we 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.280 can all agree. After the twentieth century, the Germans lost 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.039 the right to be angry when people That's how It's 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.240 like Texans. You know, everyone can do a Texan. Yeah, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.880 that's how. I don't think I can. I can make 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.320 any accent sound kind of English and sort of Spanish, 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.839 and yet can't do English. It's really just sort of 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.960 this amazing ability to see whenever I do a non 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:54.280 American accent, it just drifts Russian at some point of 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.039 the time. Yeah, oh my god, well this is your time. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.039 Now you can shine with what's going on. I know, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.240 I know, I'm ready to just yuck it up over 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.720 speaking of which, there's a number of roots of what's 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.200 happening between Ukraine and Russia right now that you can 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:13.680 type action. I mean, that's that's a little bit less 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.160 his his the area that he fucked around in, But 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.360 he did some fucking around there. Like one of the things. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.240 We are spending six episodes talking about Henry Kissinger and 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.640 we're leaving some ship out. Yeah you have to. I mean, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.120 he's been around so many years. I mean, just the 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.440 fact that he was still paling around with Hillary Clinton 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.920 in the election, and you're like, what is that guy 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.720 doing there? Don't you know? He's bad? And and he's 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.920 the thing that is so interesting about Kissinger is that 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.440 he he does have this equal He's equally good at 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.920 talking to like people who would call themselves liberals and 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.440 progressives as he is to like far right neo CON's 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.720 like he's he's he's I mean, you could I think 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:51.280 you could say that part of what that reveals is 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.360 that the ruling class in this country are all in 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.080 agreement about things more often than they disagree about things. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.160 But part of it is just that, like he is 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.640 so charming. We'll be talking a bit about Kissinger is 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.520 a sex symbol, which is a thing that happens. And 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.520 I am so sorry that we have to discuss it. No, 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.960 I was hoping that he would say this because I've 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.480 wanted I've wanted to funk him for so long, Like 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.480 that's one of the main things. He's hot. Everyone, sucker, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:20.920 I've always wanted to kiss. Is not enough kiss that's 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.080 just the taste boat. I'm at the boy will a 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.760 b test the Forest Gump and the Fuckinger title, and 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:32.520 we'll just see what plays best in Poughkeepsie. Um so 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.400 Heinz Alfred Kissinger was born on nineteen twenty three in 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.200 the city of firsth Germany. The Kissingers were a Jewish family, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.319 and so given that this is Germany in the early twenties, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.520 you can tell we're not off to a great start already, right, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.160 this is this is not going to be a story 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.560 that begins in a particularly pleasant place. Um. He was 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.000 born in a very chaotic world. The Great Year was 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.280 like five years past when he comes onto the planet. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.120 Everything is falling apart in Germany and a lot of others. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.120 The year he's born Primo de Rivera seized power as 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.200 the dictator of Spain Mustafa Kamal took power. In Turkey, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.080 the Bulgarian prime minister minister was assassinated um in a coup. 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.280 Like it was a troubling time to be a baby. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.319 But Heinz's mother and father had some reasons for optimism. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.880 While Firth was not an attractive city. In fact, one 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.800 contemporary described it as stifling and its narrow dreariness are 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:26.400 unguarden city city of soot Um. You know, it's it's 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.880 a city, it's city, it's city. It's a working class 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.160 factory town. But because of that, and this is the 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.079 period in which the working class is a lot more 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.720 left wing than you know, folks didn't give it credit 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.720 for being today. Um, it's a very it's like a 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.640 haven for democrats, not like our democrats, but people who 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.760 support democracy is opposed to want to go back to 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.280 having a kaiser you know, Um, so first I wouldn't 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.560 want to go back to having a ki was worked 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:56.040 so good? Yeah, I want to have a king who 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.360 gets us into World War one and like wax off 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.920 about his mom's hands, that sounds great again now that 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.400 I know what we're talking about Let's dance I'm in 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.960 So Firth is in some ways you could see it. 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.600 It's reputation in Germany is being kind of like Portland today. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.560 It's a very left wing town. It's seen as a 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.640 haven for socialists. But it's also kind of like Selma, 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.320 Alabama during the Civil Rights era because Firth has a 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:26.199 very large Jewish population and the period and like the 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.720 late eighteen hundreds has win a lot of like there's 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.480 there's essentially a partheight against Jewish people in Germany for 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.880 a long time. So Firth is the city that has 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.240 Germany's first Jewish lawyer, and it has a bunch of 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.160 their other first Jewish you know, X's person who does 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.160 this job. Because it's it's this very progressive city with 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.040 a very integrated Jewish community. So it's this mix of 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:50.840 the Nazis aren't going to like this town, right, Yeah, Yeah, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.480 like Portland. Yeah, it's it's got some similarities between a 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.120 couple of things. So Heinz's parents, Paula and Lewis, had 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.760 grown up in Imperial Germany, where Jews were restricted from 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.640 hold certain jobs, going to certain schools, living in certain homes. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.520 And this had ended by the time the Kaiser had 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.880 so Lewis Kissinger, Henry's dad Kim of Agent, a period 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.640 in which a Jewish boy could actually build a professional 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.679 life for the first time in mainstream German society. He 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.840 was a member of the first and almost the last 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.360 generation that this would be true of Um, what happens, 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.680 oh day, we may need to do it a separate podcast. Seriously, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.920 never read any German history, Oh my, kind of exciting. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.600 So he starts work Lewis as a teacher in a 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.000 secular private school when he's eighteen, and he holds the 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:38.160 job for fourteen years. And he was a very patriotic person. Um, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.240 he's he's also like he has an Orthodox jew so 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.160 he's very religious, but he considers himself a German first 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.079 and foremost, and his family is very patriotic. His brother 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.520 fights in World War One, so does his wife's dad. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.960 Two of his cousins die fighting for the Kaiser. And 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.240 when the war ins in German defeat. You know, there's 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.280 all these rumors spread throughout the far right that the 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.960 nation has been stabbed in the back by an alliance 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.360 of Jewish boogeman um hinz or sorry, Louis kind of 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.680 he sees this as happening, but he doesn't think that 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.120 it's ever going to like take hold. He's Henry would 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.320 later recalled that his father would regularly say, we live 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.720 in an age of tolerance. So his dad is not right. Yeah, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:23.600 I'm sorry. Are you talking about America? Are you talking Germany? Yeah, 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.400 we are talking about this on the day that Texas 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.400 just announced a fun new Um. Yeah, this is this 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.880 is like, you know, Henry is wrong about a lot 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.760 of stuff. His father is also wrong, but for a 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.400 much sadder recent because there was a psychic Jane in 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:42.400 the family. I see us being tolerant for generation. Germany 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.240 will be a watchword for tolerance. We would be a 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:51.160 beast gent for all types. Oh poor buddy. Um yeah, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.040 so he's Uh, it's interesting because like the Zionist movement 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.600 is rising in this time and Kissinger's family rejects this 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.880 wholeheartedly because they're so aman right. Um, like they don't 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.640 they don't want to ever leave. Um. So obviously, the 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.400 Nazi party rises consistently through Henry's childhood. Firth was initially 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.760 safe from this. Just a few months after Hines is 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.439 born in September of twenty three, the Nazis and other 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.720 far right organizations hold a German Day in Nuremberg. Several 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.400 caravans of them passed through Firth, sort of like Nazis 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.680 do today in a lot of places. Um. And you 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.480 know they were looking for a fight when they drove through. 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.280 They went through first because it's the town where you 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.360 can get a fight, and they got one. Uh. This 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.440 is like right after Hinton he is born, a mob 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.240 of brown Shirts are assaulted by a hundred strong crowd screaming, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.120 killed him and down with Hitler, which is let's end 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.520 the story. It's a great and there's the tale of 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.480 Henry kissing Jeris a kid who was a baby when 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:52.079 some dudes did some rad stuff. Um. So Firth was 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.280 integrated enough that Hines initially attended a public school with 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.520 Christian classmates, which was not common for Jewish kids in 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.880 this time. Yeah, he's like going to school with with 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.719 other like kids who are not Jewish. Um. Eventually his 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.680 dad puts him in his private school, but that's also 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.760 an integrated private school. So while his education is secular 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.360 her family, his family's very strict Orthodox. He attended Hebrew school, 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.040 which he hated. I found a quote from another Jewish 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.040 guy who grew up in Firth at the same time. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.440 That gives an idea as to why Henry was not 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.800 a big fan of his early religious education. Quote. Religion 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.920 was a study and not a pleasant one, a lesson 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.680 taught soulless lye by a soulless old man. Even the 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.560 day I see his evil conceded old face in my dreams. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.600 He thrashed formulas into us, antiquated Hebrew prayers that we 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.000 translated mechanically without any actual knowledge of the language. What 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.480 he taught was paltry, dead, mummified, and that I think 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.160 is broadly in line with how Henry feels because he's not. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.960 He doesn't grow up very religious. So Henry is as 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.120 is a little kid, you know, he does a lot 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.440 of religion stuff. But as he grows older he rejects 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.360 his father's passion for faith um and his dad's interests 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.000 in classical music and theater. Instead, Henry Kissinger falls in 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.440 love with soccer. He is a huge soccer head. Oh yes, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.480 um Firth has like a locally renowned team. They're one 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.400 of the best teams in Germany, and so like their 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.080 kids teams which are feeders into this whatever team are 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.200 very competitive to Henry starts playing in a youth league 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.000 when he's six years old. Um, and he later recalled quote, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.000 I wasn't really very good, though I took the game seriously. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.160 But what about soccer? We should talk about that. Sorry. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.760 So his real prowess early on was in strategy, as 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.720 this quote from Nile Ferguson's Kissinger, a book named Kissinger 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.120 Like the Guy, makes clear the no great athlete Heinz 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.160 Kissinger was already a shrewd tactician, devising for his team 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.360 a system that, as he as it turns out, is 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.880 the way the Italians play soccer. The system was to 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.200 drive the other team nuts by not letting them score 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.960 by keeping so many people back as defenders. It's very 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:55.800 hard to score when ten players are lined up in 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.920 front of the goal. So immediately Henry Kissinger as a kid, 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:00.600 is like, you know what, we'll help us win and 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:06.480 also make this game no fun at all. Yeah, Henry, 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:13.280 what are you talking about? Fire bombs er? I know 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.160 we are six, but we will park the bus. There 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.200 will be no joy in soccer. Remove the keeper's hands. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.440 He is he is, as a six year old doing 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:29.920 the soccer equivalent of carpet bombing. So he gets so 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.560 into soccer that he starts to neglect his studies and 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.960 his father actually banns him from playing for a while. Um. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.800 The older he gets, Henry has more and more conflicts 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.400 with his dad. So I thing that no one else 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.280 has ever experienced. Um and Yeah, he would regularly, after 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.400 fighting with his father, bicycle over to the home of 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.320 a friend who later recalled he liked he liked being 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:50.880 with us. It seems to me he had a problem 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.920 with his father, if I'm not mistaken, he was afraid 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.200 of him because he was a very pedantic man. His 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.400 father was always checking Hines his homework and kept a 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.680 close watch on him. Hines told me more than once 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.880 that he didn't discuss anything with his father, especially not girls. 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.280 So his dad's not like hitting him or anything. He's 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.719 just like really really annoying to him, and just like, 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.040 just like, pay attention to your studies beyond anything else. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.560 Like I think I like this girl, Like, well she doesn't. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.000 She's not going to the same school. The focus handed 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.920 it focus. Yeah, and he's clearly a dick who's like, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.240 you know, you can't be a professional soccer player eight 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.600 you have to go to school, like he's clearly an asshole. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.800 Yeah yeah, I mean he's definitely the villain of the story, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.200 no doubt, no doubt. So Henry is magnetic to women 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.080 from a well girls at this point, from a very 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.120 young age. But the funk is happening. I know, it's 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.320 really weird. It's weird. And this is the quotes about 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.119 you know, girls really liking him at this age come 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.160 from his father. But like, this also happens when he's 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.520 in his forties and the secretary of State. So I'm 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.680 going to say his father is probably telling the truth. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.679 I mean, at no point have I seen any version 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.200 of Henry kissing very like man. I mean, it's weird. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.200 That's got memory hold because there were there were New 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.960 York Times stories about how much women like her because 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.960 he looks like a lump of clay you could mold 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:14.280 into anything potentially that would be good. No, yeah, no, no, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.080 but it's it's weird. I mean, yeah, he's the guy like, yeah, well, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.080 we'll talk about some of the things he said about 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.160 sexuality later. Um, I know you're all getting real excited 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:32.560 for that episode. Yeah. Yeah. At one point one of 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.720 his friends was actually ordered not to hang out with 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.919 him because he had quote earned a reputation as a 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:44.159 skirt chaser. And this is like when he's nine, little 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:50.200 little Henry come Rocket Kissinger. The first time I sex 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.960 was nine, So you know, like at this point, he's 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.480 rebelling against the family religion, he's hanging out with girls, 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.240 he's playing a hell of a lot of soccer um, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.480 which seems like a decent childhood. But obviously you know 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.399 the Nazis. So in the mid twenties, the German nation 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.080 goes on strike against some ship fans was doing Versailles stuff. 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.639 We don't need to get into it. Inflation goes crazy, right, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.679 this is the wheelbarrows full of cash time. Um. This 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.959 hurts the Kissinger family badly because if you're like, if 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.920 you're a private laborer, if you're working for a private company, 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.760 you can generally like strike and organize to get your 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.720 salary adjusted to deal with inflation somewhat like it's still bad, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.119 but it's less bad. If you're a public servant, you 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.760 don't get ship, your salary stays the same while inflation 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.399 jumps up. So this is really a disaster for the 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.000 Kissing Singer family. And of course economic trouble coincides with 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.680 a constant acceleration of far right violence. Later as an adult, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.879 Kissinger would note without emotion that he was somewhat regularly 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.800 chased through the streets and beaten up by Nazi thugs 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:54.720 as a child. Um, yeah, that's tough. No punch lines, no, 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.919 no punch lines. But there is something weird about that. 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.920 Because he's talked about this a few times, but everything 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.280 time he talks about this, it is so that he 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.920 can emphatically state that this part of his life had 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.240 no impact on him. Yeah, it's you're really weird. It's 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.760 very strict, literal impact of fists had no impact upon him. Yeah. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.600 In nineteen fifty eight, he declared, quote, my life and 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.760 firth seems to have passed without leaving any deeper impressions. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:21.879 You don't get to say that, by the way, that 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.360 you don't like, I feel like you don't. I feel 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.040 like I said that to a shrink once about my 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:33.320 parents divorce and then wept. I didn't do anything. What's this? 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:35.480 What's this coming out of it? And it's like Yeah. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.919 In nineteen seventy four, when discussing the times he was 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:39.879 beaten in the streets by Nazis. He insisted to a 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.119 reporter quote that part of my childhood was not a 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.080 key to anything. I was not consciously unhappy. I was 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.479 not acutely aware of what was going on for children. 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:49.800 These things are not that serious. It is fashionable now 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.720 to explain everything psychoanalytically. But let me tell you, the 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.800 political persecutions of my childhood are not what control my life, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:01.120 which is really interesting. Right and so I know, right, 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.960 like I'm sure the reporter is like, I'm ready to 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:08.320 ask follow ups whatever he stops talking. You're not supposed 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:13.199 to remember anyway. I mean, I wouldn't. That's how I 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.000 can kill I went not at nine. I don't feel anything. 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.159 It is It's like, you know, I got assaulted by 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.400 a Nazi when I was thirty three, and it left 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:28.960 a market any but any time, it's just growing up 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.000 in that environment without being assaulted is going to leave 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.479 psychological damage. If your parents you completely safe from street violence, 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.240 it would it could not. Yeah, It's like, Henry, this 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.520 is the only time I'm going to speak sympathetically to you. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.119