1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Tell me what I'm missing. A producer comes up from DC. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: He wants to make a name for himself in New York. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: He chases a story that's not there in the story. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: It's not a kidnaper, tree, chemical weapons, saren gas on civilians. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: He cooks an interview. He takes a pair of scissors 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: to raw footage of a man on the street of 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: a retired three star Marine general. We go to air 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: forty eight hours it takes for the story to come undone, 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: and with it, Atlanta's cable news ACN is brought to 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: its knees. 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: That was a clip from a show called The Newsroom, 12 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 2: which aired twenty twelve to twenty four thirteen on HBO. 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: It's a show that's really close to my heart for 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: a few reasons. For one, Aaron Sorkin, who created it 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: and wrote it, asked me to consult on it, which 16 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: was really fun. So I got a great job out 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: of it, but also got to meet and become friends 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: with Aaron, who's just such a treasure. 19 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 3: I love that guy. 20 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: But through the Newsroom I also got to meet, though 21 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: not while the show was filming or airing, one of 22 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: its stars, Tom Stotski, who played don Keefer. We'll get 23 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: into it here, but I simply can't imagine my life 24 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: without having met Tommy. He's I'm gonna get emotional, but 25 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: I won't. 26 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: I won't. 27 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: I'll save it because that might be later. But he's 28 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: incredibly immensely talented. He's hilarious, he's smart, he's thoughtful, he 29 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: is steadying, he's reassuring, he's got the biggest heart, and 30 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: he gives the best hugs. His beautiful family and mine 31 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: have become close, and I'm just so grateful for that. 32 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 3: Tommy, welcome to off the cup. 33 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: I mean, what am I supposed to do with that? 34 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: What am I supposed to do with that? 35 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: That was so professional of medship? 36 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: Without welling up a little. 37 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: Bit, I get it, man. I love you to pieces. 38 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: I love you. Guys have been like you said, like 39 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: our families have become so close, and it's been such 40 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: a like a privilege and a joy to get to 41 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: know you guys, and to get to live through the 42 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:16,839 Speaker 1: last crazy, mad, wild, insane, beautiful, hectic, terrifying stretch of 43 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: our lives as parents, but as Americans and as people 44 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: of conscience, and you know, not only do are we 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: sharing like our familiar lives together, but we we share 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: a passion for humanitarianism. We work together in the humanitarian world. 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: We you know, you're a You're a near and dear 48 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: my friend. 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 3: You are the same. 50 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: And we're going to get into We're going to get 51 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: into all the things. We're going to get into your 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: work and our philanthropic work. But first, I always like 53 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: to ask what kind of kid were you? 54 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: I was? I think I was pretty shy in the 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: larger scale, like out in public, in the world, particularly 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: around people I didn't know. I was really really shy. 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: I was almost like achingly so. And then with a 58 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: sort of a tight group of people, a smaller tighter 59 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: group of people, I think I was pretty rambunctious. 60 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: Did you come to acting early and was it a 61 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: way of releasing some of your shyness mitigating some of 62 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: your shyness? 63 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, I think I started really 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: I think I started really falling in love with it 65 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: as an idea pretty early on. You know, I was 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: like in you know, elementary school plays like Paddington Bear 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: and stuff, and you know, I think I started to 68 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: to feel some sense of oh, you know, I am 69 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm operating from a different place in myself right now 70 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: that feels really genuine and feels really connected. And in 71 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: terms of did it serve to mitigate my shyness, you know, 72 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that it necessarily did that. What I 73 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: really fell in love with, and I think what it 74 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: started to draw out of me early on was this 75 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: idea that it connected me to people. It didn't mitigate 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: my shyness as much as it built a bridge of 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: empathy and compassion between me and somebody else, not necessarily 78 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: that it was a two way street, right It wasn't 79 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: a bridge that I expected anyone to cross back towards me, 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: but it was one that was established between me and 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: the outside world. Where I started to pay attention and 82 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: see and admire and fall in love with humanity and understand, 83 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: you know that the vast majority of people that I 84 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: was coming across, regardless of what differences I may have 85 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: had with them, or what issues even that I may 86 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: have had with them, And this has served me into adulthood, 87 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: that most of them are just people, and that that 88 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 1: on a fundamental level we were I was actually able 89 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: to see eye to eye with everybody, almost everybody. There 90 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: are certain people that I think it's that that's an impossibility, 91 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: at least it is for me. I haven't quite evolved 92 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: to that point yet. I don't pretend that I've attained 93 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: any kind of version of enlightenment. I just know that 94 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: I have found a way to make some peace with 95 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: the vast majority of people that I come across. 96 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: That's a really good way of putting it. So you 97 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: go into theater and you start, you start big man, 98 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: I mean off Broadway production of Kenneth Lanergan's This Is 99 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: Our Youth. You're Mark Ruffalo's understudy. 100 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: The plate does very well. 101 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I just interviewed Laura Lenny for 102 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: something and we talked about Lanigan because she starred in 103 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: his film You Can count On Me also with Mark. 104 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: What was that experience, Like. 105 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: It's so funny because You can count On Me as 106 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: the first movie I ever auditioned for, And Kenny told 107 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: me that it was it was between me and Mark 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: to decide who was going to play that part, and 109 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: it was entirely dependent on who they ended up hiring 110 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: to play the sister. So if they got somebody who 111 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: was a little bit older, which they ended up doing 112 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: with Laura perfectly brilliantly that it was going to end 113 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: up being marked, but if they decided to go a 114 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: little bit younger, it was probably gonna end up being me. 115 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: And uh that's amazing. 116 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know how true that was at 117 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: the time, but it's something that I've definitely carried in 118 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: my back pocket for a long time. I also think 119 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: that that movie is legitimately one of the best movies 120 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: that came out of those early indie or that golden 121 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: era of indie film that was happening in the late 122 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: nineties and then early two thousands. Really powerful, spectacular, absolutely spectacular, 123 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: And you know, to work on Kenny's work is I mean, 124 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: that's a it's a real privilege, He's I think working 125 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: with Kenny really prepared me on some levels to work 126 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: with Sorkin. Uh oh really, yeah, because they're both they're 127 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: both writers who understand the musicality of their works words, yeah, 128 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: who write specifically to the sort of jazz that they 129 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: hear in their head, and are very considered about word 130 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: choice and the things that they are how they're saying 131 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: what they're saying, and they take it very seriously. And 132 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: I you know, I transgressed with Kenny early in my career. 133 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: I actually, after This Is Our Youth, I went to 134 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: do a revival of his play the Waverley Gallery up 135 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: at the Long Wharf in New Haven, and Kenny came 136 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: up and saw it, which was amazing and kind and 137 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: generous of him. And after the show, you know, he 138 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: sort of pulled me aside and he was like, man, 139 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: I need you to go back and really look at 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: what I wrote, cause you changed in some stuff up there, 141 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: And like, I get it, like some nights, you know, 142 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: things just happen and whatever, but like there was enough 143 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: stuff that was off that I just you know, and 144 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: I could feel that I had transgressed, that I had 145 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: hurt his feelings in some way. Oh man, And that 146 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: just buried me. That is a that is like a 147 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: loadstone of guilt that I have never I've used it is, 148 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's not one that I've I've given up easily, 149 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: I think, because it has served me, you know, going forward. 150 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: And then when I when I did come across working 151 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: with Aaron, it was like I knew this so intimately, 152 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I obviously from working 153 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: in Shakespeare and being a classically trained actor and everything. 154 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: I knew that there were certain like things that you 155 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: just don't do, and the fact that I had done it. 156 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: Oh well, from the stage to We'll go to the 157 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: silver screen first, because the first thing I ever saw 158 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: you in was Loser Amy Heckerling movie, which is a 159 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: really fun movie. I like Amy's movies, but Tommy, I 160 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: can watch it now because you're so unlikable in it. 161 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: You were too good an actor. You were too good. 162 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh wow, you're. 163 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: Such a dick in that movie. 164 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, I think, I think, I yes, 165 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: thank you. It is a first movie I ever made. 166 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: To this day, I think it the best review I've 167 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: ever gotten in terms of a piece of written review, 168 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: like an actual piece of literature came from that movie. 169 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: That may be paraphrasing, but I think I remember it 170 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: correctly mentioned Zach Worth and Jimmy Simpson and I as 171 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: something like biddecked in the most garish wardrobe ever assembled 172 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: in the cause of heterosexual villainy. And I remember, Man, 173 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: I remember reading that and thinking, like, you know what, 174 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: Like most critics, I just sort of laugh at but 175 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: this one in particular, I was like, I get you, 176 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: and I feel like that may I mean to this day, 177 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: that still makes me smile. 178 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: Well that and that review makes sense with Amy Heckerling 179 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 2: because there's such an attention to wardrobe for her. 180 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: It is and she I love her to death, Amy 181 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: is She's She's been incredibly kind to me throughout the 182 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: course of my career. And you know, when I was 183 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: like young broke actor, you know, she was like, come 184 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: sleep in my basement when you need to come out 185 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: to LA to audition for stuff, you know what I mean, 186 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: And like, yeah, she always had a couch that I 187 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: could crash on, you know, which was just so unbelievably 188 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: generous and kind of her. And she is really one 189 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: of the great ones. 190 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: Well, I have a soft spot for that movie, but 191 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: it's really, like I said, hard for me to watch. 192 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: Now. 193 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: You're also a graduate of a school that many many 194 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: actors have matriculated through, the University of Law and Order. 195 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, why is that? Like? Oh man, So look 196 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: here's the thing. It was the only thing that kept 197 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: a roof over my head for a number of years 198 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: was scoring. Yeah, was scoring like one episode a season 199 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: on Law and Order. Again, this was in the early 200 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: early two thousands and I was living in Williamsburg. It 201 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: was like late nineties, early two thousands, so it was 202 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: I was living kind of in the deep deep Williamsburg. 203 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: So it was still cheap and affordable and it wasn't 204 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: hip yet, and you could afford a couple of months 205 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: rent based on, you know, one episode of Law and Order, 206 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: depending on the size of your part, like if you 207 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: had like a really if you were like the big 208 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: guest star, that was it for the year. You were 209 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: set man, like you really, Oh yeah, it was great, 210 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: you know it was it was like nine months of rent. 211 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 3: What kind of money are we talking. 212 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: I don't know, it was like twelve grand or fifteen 213 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: grand or something. 214 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 3: You know, an episode was. 215 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: Well for like one one guest star spot. 216 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, that's real. 217 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: And you know when all was said and done, like 218 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: when you're getting your residuals back and all of that 219 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: sort of stuff, so he could really take care of you, 220 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, totally. It was also like the training ground, 221 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: like it was everybody you knew, all of the cast, 222 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: like all of most of the background actors, everybody who 223 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: was playing a small part, regardless of whether it was 224 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: like a one line, one word bartender part, all the 225 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: way up to like the big guest star, like you 226 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: knew everybody because you were all New York theater rats, 227 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and like you were all 228 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: just like making your money, getting through it, you know, 229 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: and going and playing with some of these guys who 230 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was awesome. I I met 231 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: That's where I met Sam Waterston. I actually attempted to 232 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: assassinate Sam in an episode before I know it's it's 233 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: it's like just like taking a chip off the nose 234 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: of Mount rush one of the Mount Rushmore statues. Yeah, indeed, 235 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: but it was, like, you know, it was cool. I 236 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: still to this day every once in a while, people 237 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: will come up to me and be like, oh my god, 238 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: I just saw you in a rerun of Law and Order, 239 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: and like, I'm one of the few remaining actors out 240 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: there who did the original three, the original Recipe, Extra Crispy, 241 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: and the Colonel's Special on It was But you know, 242 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: it was funny because we were just on the cusp 243 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: of coming into what they referred to as the Michael 244 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: O'Keeffe rule, which is like you have these you had 245 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: these three franchises that were running concurrently, and I guess 246 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: somebody was watching through the three episodes that aired over 247 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: the course of the week and realized that they had 248 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: hired Michael O'Keeffe to be in these episodes in like 249 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: all three episodes of the franchise that just happened to 250 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,599 Speaker 1: air the same week. 251 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: And as different people. 252 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: As different people, and so they had to they had 253 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: to like put the Michael o'kee rule in place, which 254 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: is that if you would if you had done one 255 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: episode of any one of the franchise, you couldn't work 256 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: in any of the franchise again for the rest of 257 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: the season. You had to wait until next season before. 258 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 3: You get Does that make sense? 259 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally did. When you look back on it, 260 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: it makes complete sense. But I just like there was 261 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: a couple of there was a there was like a 262 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: wonderful like year or two right after I sort of 263 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: came out of school where that rule wasn't in place 264 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: yet and you could snag some work pretty easily on 265 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: those shows. I love it. Listen. I will say this, 266 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: there are two people in the entertainment industry whom I 267 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: will hold to an extraordinary degree of admiration, respect, and 268 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: on some level love, not that I've really met or 269 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: spent any time with them, But that is Dick Wolf 270 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: and Dennis Leary. The reason is that after September eleventh, 271 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: the industry fled New York City. It just bailed on us, 272 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: and Dick Wolf and Dennis Leary did not. They kept 273 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: their shows in New York and in fact, Dick went 274 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: so far as to start other shows that shot in 275 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: New York to fill the void that were left by 276 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: some of the other ones that were leaving. You know, 277 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: for people who don't remember or weren't around, which is 278 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: crazy to say to me, and I can't believe I'm 279 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: that old, but for people who weren't alive yet or 280 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: don't remember what happened to the city after the eleventh 281 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: and for the next I mean decade. It was certainly 282 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: the first few years afterwards, it was just it was 283 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: like a ghost. Everything was just leaving on mass and 284 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: everyone was desperately scrambling to try to figure out how 285 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: the hell we were going to keep our city together 286 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: and keep you know, roofs over our heads and keep 287 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: this thriving, important cultural hub, thriving important and full of culture. 288 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: And you know, those guys, really they did something pretty 289 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: incredible for all of us, which I appreciate. 290 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: Well, I want to get into a little bit. You 291 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: and I talk a lot about mental health, and you've 292 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: personally calmed me down in the midst of some anxiety 293 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: episodes over the years. 294 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: What brought you to a mental health journey? 295 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: So right around August July and August of two thousand 296 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: and one, I started to experience and anxiety attacks and 297 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: really like regular, significant crippling anxiety attacks, both on stage 298 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: and then in my day to day life. I had 299 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: had some you know, some scary stuff happened to me 300 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: during that stretch of time. And then obviously September eleventh happened, 301 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: and I was not too too far away from everything 302 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: when it kind of went down. I was near the 303 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: public theater in the East Village, so like I was, 304 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: I'd woke up and woken up in the morning, was 305 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: heading out the door watching New York One, just to 306 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: check and see where the weather was going to be, 307 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: like it was a gorgeous day, and all of a 308 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: sudden they popped on and were like, you know, somebody 309 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: accidentally For what we knew at the time, it sounded 310 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: like as if somebody had accidentally flown like a assessin 311 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: too close to one of the World Trade Center towers 312 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: had gotten blown off course by the wind. And I 313 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: woke up my girlfriend at the time, and I was like, 314 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: check this out, you know, like this is crazy. All right, 315 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: I got to go to work, and I got up, 316 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: went to work, and by the time I had gotten 317 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: down to the public and was getting ready to walk 318 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: in the doors, I realized that all of the traffic. 319 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: First of all, it was just it was the weirdest 320 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: sound that I've never experienced in New York, since it 321 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: was like eerily quiet except for just a very intense 322 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: background din of sirens, and it was it was like 323 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degrees. Like it wasn't just like, oh, 324 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: there's a cop car a couple blocks away. It was 325 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: like it wasn't anything directly near you, but it was 326 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: all around you at a distance, and everything else was silent. 327 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: People weren't talking to each other on the street. Everyone 328 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: was sort of looking around trying to figure out what 329 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: was happening, or they had a sense of it, and 330 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: they were hustling and they weren't talking to anybody. And 331 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: I remember looking downtown and seeing the smoke coming out 332 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: of the towers plural at this point and realizing that 333 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: the traffic was all going the wrong way on the street. 334 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: It was coming uptown down Downtown Street, and I was like, 335 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: and no one was honking any horns. People were just 336 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: going like hell. It was crazy. And it was at 337 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: that moment that I realized, I think something's off. And 338 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: I jumped into a payphone. 339 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 3: What's that. 340 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, because like I whipped out my flip phone. There 341 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: was no service because the towers were down right, yep. 342 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: I stepped into a payphone. I called my parents and 343 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: they had just woken up, and I was like, look, 344 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. Turn on the news. 345 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: Just know that I'm okay, and I'm heading back home, 346 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: you know. And it was sort of in that conversation 347 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: that I realized something really bad was going on. I 348 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: stopped by a deli on my way back to the train, 349 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: and the you know, the guys had the TV out 350 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: and everyone was just standing in the deli like dead, 351 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: silent jaws on the floor and we watched the first 352 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: tower come down. And it was from there that I 353 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: jumped on the train and headed back in and over 354 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: the course of like the next you know, two weeks, 355 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: it was realizing like, you know, the depth and the extent. 356 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: And I was living right across the river from from 357 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: the World Trade Center at that point. So we when 358 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: we woke up in the morning the next day on 359 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: the twelfth, our entire neighborhood looked like it snowed overnight. 360 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: And yeah, ash, it was like, you know. 361 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: A quarter inch of ash over everything. And it was 362 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: just the realization of like, oh my god, you know, 363 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: so that took a real chunk out of me. And 364 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: then it was some years later that I realized that 365 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: I had, for the better part of my life, starting 366 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: at age about fifteen, been seriously self medicating to the 367 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 1: point where it was now problematic in my life was 368 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: rapidly slipping out of my fingers, you know, like I 369 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: I could no longer I could no longer lower my 370 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: standards to keep up with my behavior. 371 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 3: What were you doing? What were you using? 372 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: I was primarily I mean, listen, I'll be completely honest. 373 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: I was anything like what people are like, what was 374 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: your drug of choice? And I was like whatever you had, 375 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: you know, like I didn't care. I was really really 376 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: sneaky about it, so that the people who I was 377 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: living with and around and in relationships with most of 378 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: that time thought that, oh, you know, Tommy just likes 379 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: to drink or whatever. But I was like hiding pills 380 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: and finding all sorts of stuff. Whatever it was, whatever, whatever, 381 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: just you know, quiet the voices, calm that. Yeah, the 382 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: anxiety and whatever. And it got to the point where 383 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: I just I didn't recognize myself anymore and I couldn't 384 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: live like like that anymore. And so, you know, mercifully, 385 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: my very best friend in the world is somebody who 386 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: had been sober for a long time, and I knew that, 387 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: and I called her and I said, I think I 388 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: got a problem and share. Her response was, oh, thank god, 389 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this call. 390 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: Oh wow, and. 391 00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: That it was from that day on, I've been stone 392 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: cold sober. And it started, I think for me a 393 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: journey that I'm still very much what I think of 394 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: as being very much in the early phases of in 395 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: terms of mental health, not just mental health, but an 396 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: understanding of what mental health means in this sort of 397 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: universalist sense, Like I didn't grow up with a particularly 398 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: intense faith system. I didn't, you know, I was sort 399 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: of like pushed around from one version of a church 400 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: to another I didn't really buy into any of it. 401 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: I became a pretty devout anti theist at some point 402 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: in my early teen years because I grew up in 403 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: a very conservative, very Christian town in Texas, and I 404 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,959 Speaker 1: was like, this is not it, you know. I just 405 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: I saw the the Monday to Saturday sinners become Saints 406 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: again on Sunday, and I was like, I'm sorry, this 407 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: just doesn't work for me, Like, I don't buy it. 408 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: And then I was going to school with their kids, 409 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and I was like, wow, like, 410 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: if that's all it takes, then maybe it's better not 411 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: to And I just I sort of I left all 412 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: of that behind. And then I also, you know, throughout 413 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: the course of growing up and paying attention to the 414 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: world around me and the news, I began to realize 415 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: that a lot of the problems that were happening in 416 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: the world had one thing in common. And and then 417 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, I think at age sixteen, I was exposed 418 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: to Christopher Hitchens for the first time, and I think 419 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: that that pretty much sent me off the rails in 420 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: a place that I listened to, a place that I've 421 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: never given up and that I couldn't pass enjoy bathing 422 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: in more. I mean, it is just it's still to 423 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: this day like I will if I'm in a particularly 424 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: bad mood, I will just go onto YouTube and find 425 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: like Hitchens giving a speech or an interview somewhere and 426 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: just take thirty minutes to just sit in it. And 427 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, that definitely informed me. I think at a 428 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: certain point though, in my quest for understanding how to 429 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: come to peace with myself and come to peace with 430 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: myself in the world. And I said this recently in 431 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: a an opportunity to speak to some college students that 432 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: were graduating, and I said this to them, that it 433 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: was at a certain point I had sort of become 434 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: that like most boring of creatures, which is the angry 435 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: young man, and it didn't work anymore. And it's not 436 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: to say, Amanda will certainly tell you that it's you 437 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: know not. I am not at all perfect in this regard. 438 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm a damn sight better than I used to be, 439 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: and trying to come to peace with the world and 440 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: trying to come to peace with myself in the world 441 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: has been a journey that has led me back to 442 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: something resembling a question about faith. I'm no longer no longer. 443 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm no longer mad at it in the way that 444 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: I was. 445 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I used to paint. 446 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: With a very broad brush, and now I am willing 447 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: to parse. I'm willing to say I don't have time 448 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: for your organization. I don't have time for your institution. However, 449 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: there are quite a number of really good ideas that 450 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: are floating around out there in terms of how we 451 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: can relate to each other. And you know, I read 452 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,719 Speaker 1: Tick Nott con wrote a beautiful book. I think if 453 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: I'm I'm remembering the correct title, Living Buddha, Living Christ. 454 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: But anyway, it was a very interesting sort of discussion 455 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: about like how it's possible to have these things intertwined. 456 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: I found a community of recovering junkies who had found 457 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: peace and something resembling stability through meditation and through you know, 458 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: Buddhist teachings. I threw myself into that for a while 459 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: and still love those guys very much and support them totally. 460 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: But it's not totally my scene. You know, Like I'm 461 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: not a monastic, and you know, every day things change 462 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: because now I'm a father, you know, and like and 463 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: it's a whole different set of challenges in terms of 464 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: mental health, and like what you want to pass on 465 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: to the next generation and you know what you don't 466 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: and what you don't And like, my new sort of 467 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: big question mark since the kids have started to grow up, 468 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: is the reality of epigenetics, right, Like, what are the 469 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: traumas that I experienced? 470 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 471 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: How did it change my DNA? Because it's only like 472 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: what ten percent of your DNA? I think if I'm 473 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: quoting accurately, don't totally quote me on this, It's neither 474 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: ten or twenty percent of your DNA is actually sort 475 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: of pre programmed for Youah. The other eighty to ninety 476 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: percent is malleable, is evolutionary DNA. It changes dependent on 477 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: what your circumstances and everything, which of course makes sense 478 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: when you think about it. But what are the traumas 479 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: that I've experienced throughout the course of my life? How 480 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: did that alter my DNA? And have those codes been 481 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: passed on to my kids? And if so, how do 482 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: I deprogram that, you know, so that they're not carrying 483 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the same weight and historical trauma. You 484 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: know that I am like my kids didn't I'm you know, 485 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: my kids are blessed upon, blessed upon blest. They are 486 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: not children of the depression, you know, and my parents were, 487 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, children of the depression, or at least children 488 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: of people. 489 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 3: Who yeah, in World War two. 490 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you know, it's it's it's unsurprising that 491 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: I was raised with a scarcity mentality, despite the fact 492 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: that my father had worked his ass off to make 493 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: sure that we were, you know, solidly a middle class 494 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: family when I was growing up. So like, finding a 495 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: way to make sense of that and to change it 496 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: and to pass on the whatever bits of wisdom that 497 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm coming across is really my sort of driving focus 498 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: right now. You know, I'm curious with you. I'm going 499 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: to turn the tables on you now because I feel 500 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: like I've been talking about myself too much and it 501 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: makes me really uncomfortable. 502 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: This is an inner you about you. 503 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't care about that. 504 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: Ah. 505 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: So, as dear friends and as people who have been 506 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: there for each other in these moments of really you know, 507 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: heartshaking and mind quaking, what are you finding right now? 508 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: Because your path in terms of mental health has been 509 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: really inspiring to me because you have been so open 510 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: about it, You've been so honest about it, and you 511 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: have chosen to do it, not in public and make 512 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: you sound like an influencer or some horrible thing like that, 513 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: but but that you've been unabashed about it, unabashed about 514 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: talking about the reality of it and the importance of dealing. 515 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: With it, and not unashamed, intentionally unashamed. 516 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: Well right, and you have made your bones on being 517 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: a fiercely intelligent and considered and thoughtful analyst of the 518 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: world around you. And so I think that that adds 519 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: an additional level of courage to being able to come 520 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: out and say like, yeah, there are times I'm scared 521 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: out of my mind. You know. I don't think that 522 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are known for being you know, 523 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: intelligent and thoughtful and considered, all of which you are 524 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: in extremists, had the humility and the confidence to do that. 525 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: And it's been something that's very impressive and inspiring to me. 526 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: So I want to know where you are, how you like, 527 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: what was the jumping off point if you don't mind 528 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,239 Speaker 1: talking about it, and where you what are the what 529 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: are the the ducks that you've put in a road 530 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: to get where you are now? 531 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: Well, first and thank you, but for I mean, this 532 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: is the promise of this podcast to our listeners, you 533 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: are going to hear from some people you may know 534 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 2: really well about their mental health struggles, because when we 535 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: talk about it, we take it out of the silence, 536 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: We end the stigma. And I found when I came out, 537 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I had a nervous breakdown a few years ago. 538 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: It was debilitating for me. It felt like it came 539 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: out of nowhere, but it didn't. It came on the 540 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: back of twenty years of anxiety that I didn't know 541 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: I was living with, and I thought the awful things 542 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: I was. 543 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 3: Doing were normal. 544 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: But when I talked about the nervous breakdown and how 545 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: I was feeling, I heard from a lot of people, 546 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 2: colleagues and friends included, as well as strangers, who said, 547 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 2: I just can't believe it. You seemed your life seemed perfect, 548 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: you seem to have everything together. I just can't believe 549 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: that you've been struggling or that this happened to you. 550 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 3: And that's what people think, that. 551 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 2: Somehow being successful, or being on television, or being a 552 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 2: celebrity like yourself, having money, whatever it is, somehow inoculates 553 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: you from having a mental health issue, And of course 554 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: it doesn't but when you hear from people who you 555 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: think are really together, maybe even someone you admire, admitting 556 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: that they have struggled, that it hasn't been easy, but 557 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: that they got help and that it's working, I mean, 558 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 2: I just think that's really powerful. And so that's the 559 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 2: whole premise of this podcast is to be entertaining, but 560 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 2: also to deliver on that on that mental health promise. 561 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: But what I'm doing now, Tommy, is really tough in 562 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: an election year because so many of my own anxiety 563 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 2: triggers are the news. Okay, so like this is challenge, 564 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 2: This is a challenging year. 565 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 3: Last year, you know, was an off year. You know, 566 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 3: I like went to Belgium for the summer, Like, oh yeah, 567 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 3: the last year was easier. This year is tough. 568 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: But what I do is, I'm very aware of my 569 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: mental health right now, and protecting my mental health is 570 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: priority one. Preserving my mental health as job one, and 571 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: it means saying no to some things. It means setting 572 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: some boundaries. It means going onto social media and other 573 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: kinds of platforms with intentionality, not passively, not just ingesting 574 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 2: stuff that is being thrown my way, but saying do 575 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: I want this? 576 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 3: Do I need this. 577 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: Is this good for me? Maybe I don't need it, 578 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 2: but to turn it back on you. I was talking 579 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 2: to my therapist the other day about a trip I had, 580 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 2: and she said, how are you feeling about it? 581 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 3: I said good. I said, I'm not. 582 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 2: Anxious about it now, but I'm worried I will be 583 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: when I get there. And she said, oh, so you're 584 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 2: worried about being worried classic anxiety, classic anxiety disorder. And 585 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 2: I do I worry about being anxious? Do you worry 586 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 2: about the things that happen inside your brain? Do you 587 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: worry about falling back? Do you worry about being worried 588 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 2: or falling off of a kind of steady a steady wagon. 589 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: I don't anymore. It's one. It's one of the places 590 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: that for what are the reason? Yeah, you know, it's 591 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: one of the places and for whatever reason, I've been 592 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: able to make some sense of is. And a lot 593 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: of this had to do with, you know, years of 594 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: like really concerted effort into mindfulness as a practice. Yeah, 595 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, listening to teachers like Tara Brock and Jack 596 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: Cornfield and Noel Levine and obviously Tick not Han and 597 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: the idea of right now it's like this right now, 598 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: it's like this. You know, this is a phrase that 599 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: I keep in my back pocket. I don't even keep 600 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: in my back pocket. I keep the thing hung around 601 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: my neck, you know, I I am. It doesn't again, 602 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that I have any sort of like 603 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: perfect stability at any given moment. You know, I can 604 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: be grumpy, I can be unreasonable, I can be unpleasant 605 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: to be around. I can you know all of those things. 606 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: You know, I can. I can be a human being 607 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: right right at times. And then there are ways in 608 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: which you know, I I don't spend a very much 609 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: time at all outside of being concerned reasonable concerns about 610 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: obviously like my children's health and well being, and some 611 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: unreasonable concerns about this thing that I do for a 612 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: living that I am more passionate about than almost anything 613 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: else that I've ever known. I'm pretty I'm able to 614 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: keep my feet pretty solidly on the ground. And when 615 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: I do take off, which the world is constantly inviting 616 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: you to do. Yeah, this phrase and the real understanding 617 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: of what the phrase means, and a real understanding of 618 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: what acceptance is. So this is this, I think is 619 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: something that's become very important to me a true understanding 620 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: of acceptance. What is acceptance Because I for a long 621 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: time thought that I meant that I thought that I 622 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: meant that I had to co sign on whatever was 623 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: happening in the moment that people were asking me to 624 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: accept what's happening right now meant that I had to 625 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: co sign on something that I may find morally, ethically 626 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: reprehensible or whatever. And actually, what acceptance invites you to do, 627 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: asks you to do, is to recognize that what's happening 628 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: is exactly as it is happening, and that all the 629 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: rest of the stories around it you can choose to 630 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: engage in or perpetuate or follow, but it has to 631 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: be a choice. Acceptance invites you to start from zero 632 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: right now. It is like this, this is the moment, yeah, 633 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: And starting from zero, man is just a very holy cow. 634 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: It's a really helpful place to start from, particularly in 635 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: a world that is desperate, desperate to drag you into defending, 636 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: distracting and demanding right demanding that things are different than 637 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: they are, distracting yourself from the feelings that you're having 638 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: around what the reality of the situation is and the 639 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: causes and conditions of being human being and defending against 640 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: these feelings that are asking you to empathize and find 641 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: compassion with the world. And it is a world that, 642 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: if you look at it from one perspective, is not 643 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: at all a world that deserves very much compassion. And 644 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: if you look at it from another angle, it is 645 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: a world that demands nothing but compassion. And I made 646 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: the choice to sort of try to walk from one 647 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: path to another. And it's not to say that I'm 648 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: permanently on one or that I'm on it at any 649 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: sort of regularity, but I'm making that journey and it 650 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: starts with right now, it's like this. Also, I got 651 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: rid of all of my social media because I just 652 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: I found also that well yeah, I mean, I found 653 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: it to be emotionally carcinogenic. And you know, it's totally 654 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: it's only gotten worse. I will say, since Elon Musk 655 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: took over where it's called now Elana Palooza. It highlights 656 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: for me exactly why it is so important for me 657 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: to be able to have my feet on the ground 658 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: and say right now, it's like this, because when I'm 659 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: engaged on social media, I'm not actually talking to real people. 660 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm talking to manifestations of real people. 661 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're getting sucked into the thing that you 662 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 2: didn't want to get sucked into. 663 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, And like, look, I think you and I 664 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: both know like there was a way because we're of 665 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: this roughly of the same generation. You're younger than man, 666 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: that's fine, I'm not presentful about that at all, but 667 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: we're roughly of the same generation in that I think 668 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 1: we were like the last generation that got to have schoolyard. 669 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 3: Justice, yeah right, totally. 670 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, where like if you were going to say something 671 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: about somebody, you were going to have to say it 672 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: to their face. Yep, oh way to have you were 673 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: going to have to deal like you you could talk 674 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 1: that mess if you wanted to. But at some point recess. 675 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: Was going to happen exactly exact, you know. 676 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: The fact that you don't have to put your ass 677 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: where your lips have been flappen. 678 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 679 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: Anymore I think has been so profoundly sickening to the 680 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: human spirit, not just because of you know, the ways 681 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: that I like to remember it, which is like, you 682 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: know you're gonna get whooped, but also because sometimes when 683 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: you when you're hurting somebody, you're saying something that's hurtful 684 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 1: or unkind to somebody to have to look them in 685 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: the eye when you're doing it. 686 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it changes everything. 687 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: It changes everything, And you know, every everything about how 688 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: we live these days is geared towards removing that reality. 689 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: It's how wars are being fought. It's how wars of 690 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,359 Speaker 1: words are being fought. Yeah, you know, I think, like 691 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: I look back on it, and I just like these 692 00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: things that I see, like people whose I respect, like 693 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: Ezra Kline and Sam Harris to extraordinary minds really truly, 694 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think that they're both extraordinary minds and 695 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: important voices. And watching this weird thing that sort of 696 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: happened where like all of a sudden, as Recline was 697 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: like lobbing these like grenades over the wall towards Sam 698 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: Harris about how he was antisemitic or a racist or whatever, 699 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. Was like, if you would 700 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: just sit down and talk to each other eye to I, 701 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: you'd know that that is not true. You're having a 702 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: complex disagreement about a complex problem, but you're falling into 703 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: the easiest of traps, And like, I'm just so I'm 704 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: bored of that. I don't want to be part of 705 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: that anymore. It doesn't serve me and my ability to 706 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: raise my children and be a good partner and a 707 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: good artist and like it, you know, and more importantly, 708 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: like a good humanitarian in the world, like I can't. 709 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: I can't do it. Well. 710 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 2: I want to talk about that before we go. We 711 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 2: have a lightning round at the end, but before we go, 712 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 2: I do want to talk about Inara, because that's what 713 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 2: brought us together after the newsroom. NARA was started by 714 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 2: my colleague at the time at CNN R with Damon 715 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 2: and It's you were on the board and I was 716 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 2: really just a supporter, and then I joined the board 717 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 2: as well. But the point of Innara is it provides 718 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,760 Speaker 2: critical life saving medical and mental health care to children 719 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 2: in conflict areas, so Syria, Lebanon, Ukraine, Gaza, et cetera. 720 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 2: We both work for this organization, We both care deeply 721 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 2: about it. You do something I cannot physically do. 722 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 3: You go there and you sit with kids. 723 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I struggle with transference and personalizing trauma and 724 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 2: taking it on and I cannot do that, and it 725 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 2: makes me feel guilty, and it makes me feel less 726 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 2: of a humanitarian. But I can't do it. How do 727 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 2: you get to the place where you can go and 728 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 2: be with these kids who've had the worst things happen. 729 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: Well, first and foremost, guilt has no place in humanitarianism. 730 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 2: There's no getting around it. I'll feel guilty about it, 731 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:38,799 Speaker 2: but I just know I can't do it. 732 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that that's the thing. There's there's 733 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: no sense in feeling guilty about something that you know 734 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: you can't do, and I say this, well, how do 735 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: you do it? No, this is nice. I say this 736 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: to you with like total love, Like there's there's no 737 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: sense in that because you have to know yourself and 738 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: you do. You know yourself, and there's no sense in 739 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: being feeling guilt about knowing yourself and knowing what your 740 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: limits are and what like. That's that's just self knowledge. 741 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: And the fact that you have that self knowledge and 742 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: that you are willing to continue to engage as opposed 743 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 1: to just throw in the towel, you know, is I 744 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: think quite admirable. So, like, let's take the guilt cudgel 745 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: and the hair shirt and like get rid of that, 746 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: because that doesn't have a place for my friend se 747 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: Cup to be dealing with I will tell you also 748 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:46,359 Speaker 1: that just because you are not on the ground does 749 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,320 Speaker 1: not mean that you are not helping. And the reality 750 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: of the situation is you know yourself and you know 751 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: what you're capable of, and you're doing it anyway, and 752 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: that is to be celebrated. 753 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,959 Speaker 3: Well, listen, all we all do the best we can. 754 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: But that's not true. That's not true. 755 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,879 Speaker 3: I'm doing the best I can. 756 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 1: Then, yes, you are doing the best you can, and 757 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: that is to be celebrated, and that is to be 758 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: and that is to be owned, and it's not to 759 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: be felt guilty about. Okay, So, my dear friend, what 760 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: I do. What I found is that for whatever reason, 761 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: I have the capacity to show up in these circumstances 762 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,239 Speaker 1: and compartmentalize it. 763 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yep. 764 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: And it costs. I'm not gonna lie you know. It 765 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: costs to have a child, to have a child dying 766 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: in your hands, to have a baby dying in your 767 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,879 Speaker 1: hands from starvation costs. That does change your DNA, yep. 768 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: It changes your soul, and it changes the way that 769 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: you view the world and the way you operate in 770 00:46:54,560 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: the world, and it challenges your perception of what you think. 771 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: What you think full stop, so for whatever reason, and 772 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know why. When Arwa first called me 773 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: and said, you know, get your butt over here to Beirut. 774 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,240 Speaker 1: I want you to see what we're doing on the ground, 775 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: I said, I said, yeah, okay, cool. And I think 776 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: it was because I trusted. 777 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 3: Her, yeah, implicitly, which was a mistake me too. 778 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: I say that. I say that with all the love 779 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: in the world and admiration in the world. What a mistake. 780 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: She smelled a sucker and she got me no. But like, listen, 781 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: Arwa is genetically built for this stuff, like she is 782 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: just she's I mean, my god, like there are there 783 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: are just people who are built to do things. And 784 00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: she yeah, she's built to do this. And you know, 785 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 1: I trusted her and she brought me over there and 786 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,720 Speaker 1: we got to work, and it was it was a lot. 787 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,320 Speaker 1: And I will tell you that sitting with those kids, 788 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: sitting with the families, sitting with doctor G, doctor Gassan Abusita, 789 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,439 Speaker 1: and getting to be friends with doctor G and really 790 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 1: see him at work, and then sitting with the other 791 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,879 Speaker 1: humanitarian organizations, the United Nations and some of those other 792 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 1: the institutional humanitarian organizations, it sparked something in me that 793 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,439 Speaker 1: it had always sort of been there, Like my humanitarian 794 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: awakening was Srebnitza in nineteen ninety five, and this was 795 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: something that I just sort of it was a if 796 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: I look back over the course of my life, it 797 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: was just kind of a logical conclusion. Yeah, but it 798 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: awakened something in me that was like, oh, no, we 799 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: have to do I have to do more. Listen. What 800 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: I do for a living is tell stories and connect 801 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: the dots in humanity. Like my belief of what an 802 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: actor's job is, what an artist's job is is to 803 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: really hold up a very finely polished mirror to humanity. 804 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: And I have, for whatever reason, the ability to show 805 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:28,439 Speaker 1: up and listen and take on and invest in these 806 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: stories in a way that simultaneously allows me to be 807 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,399 Speaker 1: super present for people so that they know that they're 808 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,320 Speaker 1: being heard and seen and felt, and that somebody gives 809 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: a damn and that I can then carry back home and. 810 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 3: Explain and talk about, Yeah. 811 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,040 Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from, how or what, 812 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: but it's there, and so I do it. I do 813 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: it with Enara, I do it with w Child, And 814 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,479 Speaker 1: because of that, I've seen the worst of what we're 815 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 1: capable of as a as a species, and it has 816 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,839 Speaker 1: also sort of lowered my hysteria levels quite a bit 817 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,840 Speaker 1: in terms of coming home I have. It's lowered my 818 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,840 Speaker 1: hysteria levels, and it's also frankly, it's made me like 819 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 1: a lot less pleasant to be around at cocktail parties 820 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,760 Speaker 1: at a certain point, and really unpleasant to be around 821 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 1: when year Amazon delivery of your brand new six person 822 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: luxury tent and sleeping bag and all of your cool 823 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: equipment has arrived so that you can go camp out 824 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 1: in front of your college dorm room and scream and 825 00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:03,720 Speaker 1: yell it. My capacity for patients dealing with that stuff is, yeah, 826 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: I'm very unpleasant in those circumstances because I've actually it's 827 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,440 Speaker 1: it's difficult for me who's seen real activism. 828 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:13,399 Speaker 3: I get that. 829 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm very glad that I've found this part of my life, 830 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: and I don't know that everybody who comes into my 831 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,280 Speaker 1: orbit is glad that I found this part of my life. 832 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 2: Well, I am glad that you found this part of 833 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 2: your life, because it's how I found you. On the 834 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 2: other side. Okay, Lightning round, do it. I'm going to 835 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 2: name the titles of your Law and Order episodes one 836 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 2: is fake. You're gonna tell me which one's fake? Okay, 837 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 2: anchor Criminal Law, House of Cards, lonely. 838 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: Ville, House of Cards. 839 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,320 Speaker 2: Correct, that was an episode in one of your seasons, 840 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 2: but you weren't in it. 841 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 3: I was okay, good you pass. What is the best 842 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 3: Aaron Sorkin project ever? Ever? 843 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:12,359 Speaker 1: The West Wing? 844 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 3: Oh? Okay. 845 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 2: I would say a few good men, but I mean 846 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 2: there's no right there's no wrong answer here. 847 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the West Wing. 848 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 3: Okay. 849 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: Sports Night was pretty great too. 850 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 3: Sports Night's great. 851 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,000 Speaker 1: I mean there's there's literally no bad answer. 852 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 2: Social Network's great. I know there's no wrong answer. We 853 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,320 Speaker 2: didn't mention this. You're married to Amanda Seyfried. Yes, what's 854 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,800 Speaker 2: your favorite movie or project of hers? 855 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: First Reformed? Oh? 856 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 3: I don't know that one. 857 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's hern Ethan Hawk Paul Schrader movie 858 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,200 Speaker 1: she did with Ethan Hawk. Oh, okay, about a priest 859 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: who sort of hits the end of his rope in 860 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: terms of watching environmental catastrophe, befollowing the world around him, 861 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: and he can't make sense of his faith and what 862 00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 1: he's been called to and watching the world be destroyed. 863 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,680 Speaker 1: So it's oh yeah, it's a real light one. It's 864 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: a laugher. Uh, it's a romp. Yeah, no, it's actually 865 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 1: it was the al prequel to the prequel to Mama Mia. 866 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: But she shot it while she was pregnant, like for real, 867 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,440 Speaker 1: real pregnant. So but that's my favorite of hers, which 868 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,360 Speaker 1: is Look, the answer came out quickly, but it's not 869 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: an easy it's it's not an easy choice, but that 870 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: I just think that that movie is so special in 871 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:39,040 Speaker 1: her performance and it is I mean, for my money, 872 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 1: where the world really got to see who my wife 873 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: is as an artist was in the Dropout. The world 874 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: really got to see just and I'm not even this 875 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,080 Speaker 1: is just like the first vision into like the real 876 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: depths of her artistry was in was like her transformative 877 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: artistry was in that show. But my favorite project of 878 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,840 Speaker 1: hers is First Reformed. 879 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 3: Great, here's another pop quiz. 880 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 2: We were having lunch in the city once and ran 881 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 2: into this comedian who was it. 882 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,320 Speaker 1: Chris Rock No, Jerry Seinfeld. 883 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,640 Speaker 3: No, we were down in the village. 884 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 2: I think we were in the West Village and we 885 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,360 Speaker 2: were finishing lunch and as we were leaving, he was 886 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,080 Speaker 2: sitting there someone else. 887 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 3: Who Okay, here's the clue. 888 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 2: He went on to marry a girl we know, oh 889 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 2: Olivia one. 890 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,279 Speaker 1: Uh huh, Oh my god, John Lvaney yeah, yes, Oh 891 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: my god. 892 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:48,839 Speaker 3: Do you remember running into him? 893 00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I do. Now we were. 894 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:56,759 Speaker 2: Babies with us, like we had our baby exce. 895 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,719 Speaker 1: Right, we were in the village, we were at the 896 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,800 Speaker 1: was that Italian place down there in the building. 897 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhere you recommended? 898 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, yep, just funny that years later 899 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 2: he ended up marrying a newsroom actress, right, like. 900 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: They just had their second Baby's amazing. 901 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:22,000 Speaker 2: Okay, the last questions, okay, important to me culturally, spiritually, 902 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 2: all the things. 903 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,600 Speaker 3: When is iced coffee season. 904 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: It's always ice coffee season. 905 00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,239 Speaker 3: Okay, that's right. Answer. I knew we were friends for 906 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 3: a reason. Answer is you're. 907 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,960 Speaker 1: Around year round, year round. Yeah, man, it's always ice 908 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,280 Speaker 1: coffee season. Like, yeah, listen, it gets warm inside buildings 909 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,160 Speaker 1: in the East Coast during the winter. 910 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,200 Speaker 2: Don't and I don't want to sip it. It's not 911 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,480 Speaker 2: precious iced coffee. 912 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to say you main line it, you main. 913 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,759 Speaker 3: Line it, I'd injected if I could. 914 00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,439 Speaker 1: Quick time for a fun fact, always, I didn't drink 915 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 1: coffee until I married Amanda. Really I did not drink 916 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 1: coffee until I married Amanda and her her love affair 917 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,359 Speaker 1: with coffee was so intense that I felt like I 918 00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,200 Speaker 1: either had to I had to figure out what it 919 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: was all about, or I was forever going to feel 920 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,440 Speaker 1: like yeah, or else I was forever gonna feel like 921 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: I was left out. And it took it took me 922 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:28,840 Speaker 1: all about two weeks to really get it. And now I'm. 923 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:28,799 Speaker 3: It's good man, It's good. 924 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:29,440 Speaker 1: It really is? 925 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 3: It truly is Amy Sadovski. I love you. 926 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean that, I love you too, my friend. 927 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:37,959 Speaker 3: Next week on Off the Cup. 928 00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,400 Speaker 2: If you're an avid listener, you know how I like 929 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 2: to end the show with my favorite question, when is 930 00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:45,360 Speaker 2: iced coffee season? 931 00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's interesting. 932 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,200 Speaker 2: I think it is, And the answers we've received so 933 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,080 Speaker 2: far have actually been pretty revealing. So next week we're 934 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,240 Speaker 2: rounding up the best of the year, and we'll sprinkle 935 00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 2: in if you guess you haven't. 936 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,839 Speaker 3: Even heard yet, if you can make some. 937 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,799 Speaker 2: Guesses, that's our special New Year's episode next week. 938 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:05,840 Speaker 3: On Off the Cup. 939 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as part. 940 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,640 Speaker 3: Of the Recent Choice Network. 941 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 2: I'm Your Hostess, cupp Editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. 942 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,400 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Messie Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. 943 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,280 Speaker 2: If you like Off the Cup, please rate and review 944 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new 945 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:32,480 Speaker 2: episodes every Wednesday,