WEBVTT - Notre Dame's Coaching Carousel with Pete Sampson 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to the Solid Verbal. Hell that for me, I'm 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.560 a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:10.639 well I want to be happy. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.040 You want to be happy for a day? 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.880 Edi state is that? Woo woom? 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:20.000 And then and Tye, welcome back to the Solid Verbal 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:24.160 Boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. Dan Rubinstein, 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.760 the one, the only, the incomparable is off today, so 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.640 you're going to be stuck with just me. Don't worry, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.559 He'll be back next week. Also, don't forget to go 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.960 on out to play Winter Wonders dot Com and enter 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.400 our Bowl Confidence Pool. 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If nothing else, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.080 please do subscribe to the Solid Verbal out on Apple 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.480 or Spotify, And while you're at it, go on out 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.800 to the YouTube channel and do the same out there. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.000 Today we're going inside the Ropes on Brian Kelly's departure 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.399 from Notre Dame and on the promotion of Marcus Freeman 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.919 to be the next head football coach of the Irish. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.000 I'm going to do that with our friend Pete Samson, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.319 longtime friend of the podcast from the Athletic. He had 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.240 much of the early reporting on this story and he's 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.080 warming up in the bullpen. Now we're going to talk 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.759 about timelines, what went down behind the scenes, what happens next, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:42.920 all the good stuff. As I said, Dan's going to 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.120 be back next week. So without further ado, let's just 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.120 jump right in. Alrighty, we are privileged to welcome back 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.080 to the show longtime friend of the Solid Verbal from 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.000 the Athletic, mister Pete Samson, Sir, how are you recovering? 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.200 Definitely recovering, That's how I am doing right now. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.320 So I went back through our text thread from a 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.000 week ago and I was out walking the dog. It 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.399 was Monday the twenty ninth, it was five thirty two 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.839 Eastern time, and that's when I saw your tweet come 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:19.480 across that LSU was making Brian Kelly its top target. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.600 And it was in that moment where I almost forgot 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.480 to clutch the leash of the dog and I was 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.480 a little worried she'd run away with a quick movement, 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.680 because I was really taken aback by that. I was stunned, 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.400 not at the notion that somebody would be interested in 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.160 Brian Kelly, but just that it seemed like it came 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.200 out of left field. And I texted with you at 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.160 the time, and I got the sense that you were 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.880 in a similar place where you got it. But at 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.560 the same time, is this a joke? Should we take 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:51.560 this seriously? And you didn't think it was going to 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.600 happen either until it actually did. Walk me through what 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.600 you're thinking when you find out through sources or otherwise 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.880 that this is a thing. How do you like place 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.480 this inside your head? As is this a real threat? 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:08.880 Is this not a real threat? 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.520 So Monday afternoon is sort of unfolding. I made the 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.919 brilliant decision to stay on the West Coast for a 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.760 couple of days of vacation after the Stanford game because 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.040 nothing was going to happen with under in football. And 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.040 I'm actually getting my eight year old in and out 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.359 and Bruce Feldman calls me while we're in the drive 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.880 through line and we start talking and that at that 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.360 point it was sort of on. But I was I 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.880 was more of the Okay, this is a game of chicken, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.280 and they're both going to pull up at the last 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.520 moment and figure out a way to sort of keep 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.800 keep the good times rolling, so to speak. But then 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.680 when I started calling sources around Notre Dame sort of 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.840 at like not above the athletic department, like administration level, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.840 so like, is this happening beyond just like, you know, 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.400 can we get a new facility built? You know, can 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.240 we get a new contract in? And when you hear 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.280 that the people who make the decisions at Notre Dame 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.880 are worried about this, that they're having discussions with Brian 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.720 Kelly and they're strategizing like all right, is this a 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.000 situation where you just want a new challenge and in 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.359 that case we wish you well, Or is this situation 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.960 where you want more money, Well we can make that work. Facilities, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.360 we can make that work. But as soon as I 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.719 knew that Notre Dame was having the conversations at that 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.760 level with the perspective of like this is real, well 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.240 then it was real. Then it stopped being a sort 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.039 of a trace Armstrong agent move and started being like, Okay, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.640 this is happening. It might not happen today, but like 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.320 everyone is, we're on the path to Brian Kelly being 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.400 the next LSU head coach at a moment when man, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.839 I did not think that was how that day was 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:56.880 going to go at all. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.039 And it escalated quickly. It happened very quickly, So the 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.440 rumors came out and I don't know the exact timing, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.800 but I want to say within a couple hours later, 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.360 I think it was Pete Thammel, maybe it was somebody else. 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:09.599 Yep, now it's Pete. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.480 Within a matter of hours, it was like, Yeah, this 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.520 thing's going to happen, and it just it happened so quickly. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.800 I think that's really been one of the themes of this 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.720 coaching carousel. We saw it with Lincoln Riley, we saw 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.560 it with Brian Kelly, these really quick movements almost without 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:26.160 any warning. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.640 That was that was surprising to me because there really 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.000 was no back and forth between Brian Kelly and Notre 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:33.919 Dame at that point, which I think just sort of 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.640 speaks to the relationship or lack of one between him 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.320 and Jack Swarbrick, Like if you don't have a strong relationship, 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.279 then you you're not going to go to that person 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.120 and be like, hey, you know, let's talk. I really 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.839 would like to stay Like you're gonna be like no, no, no, no, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.200 this guy's going to pay me one hundred million dollars 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.760 over ten years, Like I'm going to make that move. 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.359 So yeah, it was quick. I think that you saw 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.120 saw how Notre Dame players took that when Brian Kelly 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.640 put out my love is limitless message in the sort 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.839 of team chat that night and then came back for 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.719 his farewell on Tuesday morning. So it was quick, and 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.920 I mean Notre Dame was already talking to Marcus Freeman 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.800 about should you be the next head coach that Monday night. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.719 That conversation was already happening before Brian Kelly told the 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.839 team that he's no longer their head coach. 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.080 I want to come back to that, but you mentioned 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:35.400 the Swarbrick Kelly relationship. Swarbrick in his press conference after 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.159 the fact, indicated that he saw signs. He called it 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:45.200 restlessness after working with somebody for a decade plus. What 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.440 was their relationship like? Because I think both of them 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:53.240 referred to their quote unquote friendship. They obviously were close 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:58.560 professional associates, but it did get it did give the 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.400 impression that Swarbricks saw this coming from like a mile away. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.680 I think that Swarbricks saw the potential for it at 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.760 some point, But to say that he anticipated this happening 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.200 in this way on this timeline, I think is a reach. So, 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.000 I mean, their relationship, I think it's been good for 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.320 the most part, but I you know, we had reported 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.720 this out on the Athletic, like Trace Armstrong, Brian Kelly's 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.000 agent had been pushing for a meeting with Notre Dame 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:33.160 post mel Tucker contract to talk about facilities, talk about 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:38.960 conversation like repeatedly, almost daily. That meeting never happened. So 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.320 and that started about a week before the decision to leave. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.360 So it's, you know, where their telltale signs. It's almost 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.240 like you sort of reverse engineer it to find those 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.160 signs after the fact. But I don't think as things 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.640 are unfolding that anyone around Notre Dame would say, oh, yep, 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.960 we saw this coming. You know, there was always a 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.240 danger of this. You know, Brian kelly leaving doesn't shock me, 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.160 sort of in a vacuum, but the way he left 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.160 and where he left too, is really kind of a stunner. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.240 The facilities thing is that real? Is that an excuse 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.520 at a place like Notre Dame because they're not playing 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:18.160 on gravel? 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:19.119 Right? 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.360 Yeah, right, Like they've put serious investment into an indoor 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.360 facility and otherwise around Notre Dame. Like I get that, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.960 there's a conversation you're always trying to make things better. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:30.960 It does feel like we've gotten to the point, at 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.000 least at some programs where coaches are able to use 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.720 that as an excuse like, hey, they wouldn't upgrade the facilities. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:37.800 Now I got to go elsewhere. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.160 Yeah, it's not a situation where I mean you see 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.160 this other places where coaches will be like, yeah, we 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.560 don't even have an indoor facility, Like Notre Am has 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.640 a really nice indoor facility, it's like about three years old. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.680 What they don't have is sort of the training table 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.079 functionality that the teams that are winning in the playoff have. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.320 They don't have I think the mental performance space Brian 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.880 Kelly thought that they should have. So there's the you know, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:11.000 so facilities investment is necessary, but it's not like their 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.480 weight room is a YMCA. They they have good facilities, 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.559 do they have like the best facilities in the country. No, 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.800 nor is nor do I think Brian Kelly's facilities argument 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.880 is like, why don't we have a slide in our 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.000 in our lobby like Clemson, Why don't we have a 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.320 putt putt golf course? Why don't we have a barber shop? 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.480 Like those are pods like at LSU, Yeah, right, like 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.760 sleep pods. I mean they had float tanks up here. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.160 So if it has a functional element like Notre Dame 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.320 is down for that, they want to do that, or 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.760 Brian Kelly wanted to do that, the whiz bang bells 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.200 and whistles like Notre Dame knows that is all kind 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.600 of a show and that's not really why you're coming 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:53.920 to Notre Dame in the first place. 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.120 So let's talk back through this timeline. Then you say 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.680 Monday already they're talked to Freeman. Was he the top 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.320 target because there was that slip up, whether it was 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.360 just an inference by Brian Kelly or an indicator of 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.640 something maybe that he knew, I you know, no one 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.680 really knew where to place that, but was freaming the 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:17.800 top target interview. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.760 I don't know if he was, like in a universal sense, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.600 because look, if if Cincinnati was not in the playoff, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.400 then I think probably Luke Fickle is your top target. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.720 But look, Cincinnati's in the playoffs, so he's he's not 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.400 available because there's a there's a world in college football 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.400 where coaches don't leave playoff contenders right before the playoff. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.440 You know, Luke Fickle lives in that world. So it's 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.920 you know, if Luke Fickle was available, this is probably 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.400 a different conversation. But I mean, Matt Campbell was one 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.080 hundred percent available. Matt Campbell would have taken this shot. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.560 But I don't think Notarame really pursued that in any capacity. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.000 And when you talk about sort of the speed of everything, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.800 with the speed of the departures of the hire was 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.640 also a bit shocking because you go, you're all in 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.640 on a thirty five year old, first time head coach 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.360 in a matter of forty eight hours, seventy two hours. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.320 You know, there was a social media campaign from Notre 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.160 Dame's roster. There was a bit of a social media 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.600 campaign from Notre Dame's commitments. You know, I don't think 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.440 you want to have teenagers make your most important higher 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.760 but that was part of it. But I think ultimately 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.520 what got Freeman over the line is like when everything 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.840 hit the fan, the people who make the decisions at 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.880 Notre Dame, like the people who are advising Jack Swarbrook, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.560 were already in on Freeman. It's not like Freeman had 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.960 to go and build a relationship with a big time donor. 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.160 You know. Basically, the class of people at Notre Dame 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.600 whose names are on buildings, they already liked Marcus Freeman 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.040 as their next as the next head coach here the 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.120 minute Brian Kelly departed, so that that I think was 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.000 sort of critical on how quickly this all was. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.480 Why do you think they were so in on Freeman? 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.319 Well, I mean, if you watched his press conference, he 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.240 watched the video of him coming into the locker room, 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.120 That's that's who he is. I mean, it's not a show. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:17.640 So if you spend time around Freeman, that's what you get. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.360 He's just such a dynamic com communicator and it's like 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.760 one of those guys there. I think it's very it's rare. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.360 It's difficult for coaches to sort of manage up and 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.800 manage down, like the ability to get into a living 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.040 room with a seventeen year old linebacker from South Carolina 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.440 but also talk to a fortune five hundred CEO with 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.000 sort of equal dexterity is rare. I think it's even 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.400 rarer that you can do that without it seeming like 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.720 a show as you don't. It doesn't come across with 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.360 Marcus Freeman as an act or that he's trying to 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.800 sort of move between audiences. He just does. So I 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.240 think that that is to me, the biggest part of 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.520 the whole thing with him. You know, I've written a 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.320 bunch of times just the authenticity really comes through. And 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:09.000 that's not just with players, it's with trustees, it's with CEOs, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.360 you know, certain with players and their parents. So that 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:13.760 I think you just added up. That's that's where you 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.400 kind of get the kind of the full package. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.600 Well, and you've written a lot about the new energy 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.440 at Notre Dame, and my sense is it's that authenticity 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.080 that is really what's coming across. 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:26.280 You know. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.720 I asked Mama, h my mom, Notre Dame enthusiasts before 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.120 I did this with you, do you have any questions 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.680 for Pete? And she said, yeah, ask him why Brian 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:40.640 Kelly's such a dick. So I'm not going to phrase 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.600 it like that, thank you, but I have found very 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:49.480 interesting over the last decade plus with Brian Kelly. I'm 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.120 interested in his character arc because he's a guy who 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:58.840 has been wildly successful. Everywhere he's been, He's been I 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.640 think universe perversally spoken of from people who have dealt 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:08.959 with him as generically a nice guy, but yet universally 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.720 around college football, outside of a couple little tribes, he's 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.800 sort of viewed as the villain. And I've always tried 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.200 to figure out why is that? And then the accent happened, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.840 and that's why. You know, the accent's goofy, and of 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.160 course it's meaningless and we're all gonna make jokes about it. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.680 But that's why the accent is actually kind of important 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.280 because I think what I get from the accent is, aha, 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.240 Brian Kelly might be fake nice, and that's why people 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.360 don't connect with him in the same way they do 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.560 Marcus Freeman. That's why the energy feels different. You don't 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.680 have to like go through all of that, peete, But 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.000 do you get that same sense that that authenticity is 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:49.920 something that was lacking at Notre Dame. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.760 I do I think that. I mean, we always describe 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.720 Brian Kelly as a Boston politician, because that he grew 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.320 up in that in that world, and that served him 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.240 incredibly well at Notre Dame. Oh yeah, that's why he 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:09.600 made it twelve years here through like legitimate tragedy early 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.280 on he was able to sort of get to the 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:17.680 other side of that. But in the same way that 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.800 when you talk to Marcus Freeman and it is authentic 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.680 and natural and you don't feel like he's straining or 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:28.080 trying to connect with you. Brian Kelly turned that on 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.920 and off. With Marcus Freeman. There's there's not a switch, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.400 it's just like who he is. So that part of it, 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.560 I think is real. That that is part of the energy. 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.920 And I mean, look, you got twenty five years younger 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:45.200 with your head coach. You got cool at Notre Dame 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.600 with your new head coach, Like these are new worlds 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.240 for Notre Dame all of a sudden. I mean you 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.560 think about the three head coaches before him, Well, let's 0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.160 go for like Bob Davey, Tyrone Willingham, Charlie Weiss, Brian Kelly. 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.400 What was cool, young, hip, energetic or authentic about any 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.240 of them? Like nothing? And so you're like Marcus Freeman, 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.400 I think for the Nurian fan base. You might as 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.280 well be glowing when he's on the podium at his 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.040 press conference, because it just it suddenly makes things feel 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.720 like possible and optimistic at a place that I think 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.760 has sometimes been over backwards to tell you how hard 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.960 it is to win here. Now you have a head 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.280 coach who is not just leaning into that, but like 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.120 you feel like, okay, well this is this is the 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.800 guy that maybe can actually climb that mountain. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.160 It was a complete rebranding in like seventy two hours. 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:45.360 Yes, absolutely wild. I mean I see like the family 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.720 photo that they've shot at Midfield of him and Joanna 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.360 and the six kids, and you're like, holy crap, like 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.760 this this family is They're just like sparkling here, like 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.680 this is a Christmas card all of a sudden at 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.200 Notre Dame. And yeah, he's onder because he hasn't lost 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.440 a game, but I hasn't won one either, But it 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.359 just is it's just this new energy that you feel 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.080 around from the NOTEM fan base, and like you, being 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.760 an notarime fan, can relate to this, Like when is 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.080 the last time the RAM fan base was united on anything? Well, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.600 I think they're pretty much united on. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.160 This one well, and even Notre Dame haters. Pete right, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.960 I was getting text messages from Penn State fans, from 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.240 USC fans, people that are very close friends, who have 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.040 never once rooted for Notre Dame, saying I hope Notre 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.960 Dame makes the playoff? What year is this? 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.480 How did this happen so quickly? America's team? 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.760 Yeah, I made the joke. Maybe that's Brian Kelly's lasting 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.119 achievement Notre Dame, not building the program back to a 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.679 point of stability, but building them to a point of 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.199 likability now in absentia. 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:54.840 It's pretty wild that you you hear that nationally from 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.160 fans of other schools, you know, even I think even 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.040 people who don't it's not even just people who like 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.840 or dislike Notre Dame. I think it's people who are 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.400 like casually invested in college football, don't really know anything 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.560 about it, and then they see Marcus Freeman like all right, 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.760 like I can get behind that guy, like oh man, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.400 look at a video of him in the locker room. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.800 Like it just I think it gets to people who 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.680 are outside of like the tribal nature of college football 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.359 fandom in a way that Notre Dame just doesn't, and 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.639 most schools don't, but Marcus Freeman. That's I mean, I 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.160 think that's part of the authenticity really coming through. People 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:32.080 gravitate towards that. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.280 Well, nobody likes the guy who chases the bag, and 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.320 they dislike that character more than they would otherwise dislike 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.920 Notre Dame. And so it was just an incredible turn 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.359 of phrase in a very short period of time. I'm 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.560 getting these text messages. You've got to be kidding me, like, 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.480 how did we arrive here? Anyway? That's neither here nor there. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.280 Let's go back to the Freeman timeline. So you say 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.879 they start the conversation on Monday in earnest trying to 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.960 gauge his interest. Were there any other names like Fickle 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.560 as you said, probably not available because he's not going 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.800 to leave in the middle of a playoff run. Matt 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.960 Campbell available, maybe not under a serious consideration. Who else 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.080 was actually a candidate for this thing outside of Freeman? 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.119 Yeah, that's I think Pat forty s I reported that 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.679 there were eight sort of candidates, Like if you just 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.199 had a board, you'd have eight names on it, and 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.800 then they quickly crossed off I think five or six 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.960 of them. So I think you got down to Fickle 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.199 and Freeman quickly. Like my sources indicate that Campbell was 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:40.200 never seriously approached for it, So I don't believe there 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.880 was another formal interview the best I can tell, So 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.399 it was they quickly got to Marcus Freeman, which you 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.320 kind of have to do in seventy two hours, right, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.000 you know. Jack Swarbrick said, like Freeman was the only 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.760 non sitting head coach who was a candidate, which I 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:58.640 think sort of speaks to where Notre Dame is as 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.600 a program today versus when Brian Kelly showed up, uh, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:08.440 Tuesday night, Tommy Reese flew back from California to sort 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.800 of interview for the OC job, or not interview for it, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.720 but like talk to Swarbrick about like, all right, where 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.080 do you want what do you want to do? Where 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.040 do you want this to go? You know, he wanted 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.160 to stay. Brian Kelly was throwing a ton of money 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.680 at him to come to l s U No name. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:28.119 I think, to my surprise, personally basically matched that. And 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:34.080 so that stays the strength coach Matt Bayless stays. And 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.199 at that point, I mean my understanding talking to sources is. 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.480 Once you had Bayless and Reese locked up on Tuesday, 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.600 then Freeman became a much better candidate because what do 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.280 you what do you want a first time head coach 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.359 who's on defense not to have to worry about what 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.040 offense am I running? Well, okay, you have Tommy Reese here, 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.400 who who I for? How much? I think people sort 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.600 of give him crap? Is very popular in the locker room, 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.480 and I do think he has a ton of sort 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.000 of of play calling ability and smarts, and I think 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.000 he's just sort of a rising star in the industry. 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.080 Matt Bayless, incredibly popular with the locker room, has been 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.440 one of the biggest architects of the turnaround. After twenty sixteen, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.520 he shows up after that season suddenly notre name is 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.880 good again, So that I think once you took those 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.200 off the table, then Marcus Freeman as a candidate, it 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.000 was like, Okay, well he's the first time head coach, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.280 but string program's in a good shape and we know 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.359 what offense were running, so what about this guy? And 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.960 then he interviews with Jack Swarbrick on Wednesday. At that point, 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.639 Freeman sort of goes underground for about twenty four hours 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.959 while they're doing background checks and figuring out, you know, 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.000 you're avoiding the Georgia Leary Part two situation, and then 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:55.440 Friday morning he emerges in the locker room. So it 0:21:55.560 --> 0:22:00.399 was I think, but basically by Wednesday night or Thursday warning, 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.919 I believe that's when they sort of knew it was 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:05.720 going to be him, and then they just had to 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.040 check a ton of boxes until Friday morning. 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.679 So they get Reese and the strength coach in place 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.720 before they get Freeman, which by the way, is not 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.720 terribly uncommon among first time ahead football coaches. You hear 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.879