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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Solid Verbal. Hell that for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say,

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Speaker 1: well I want to be happy.

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Speaker 2: You want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 1: Edi state is that? Woo woom?

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Speaker 2: And then and Tye, welcome back to the Solid Verbal

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Speaker 2: Boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. Dan Rubinstein,

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Speaker 2: the one, the only, the incomparable is off today, so

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Speaker 2: you're going to be stuck with just me. Don't worry,

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Speaker 2: He'll be back next week. Also, don't forget to go

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Speaker 2: on out to play Winter Wonders dot Com and enter

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Speaker 2: So one more time, that's Playwinterwonders dot com. If nothing else,

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Speaker 2: please do subscribe to the Solid Verbal out on Apple

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Speaker 2: or Spotify, And while you're at it, go on out

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Speaker 2: to the YouTube channel and do the same out there.

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Speaker 2: Today we're going inside the Ropes on Brian Kelly's departure

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Speaker 2: from Notre Dame and on the promotion of Marcus Freeman

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Speaker 2: to be the next head football coach of the Irish.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do that with our friend Pete Samson,

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Speaker 2: longtime friend of the podcast from the Athletic. He had

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Speaker 2: much of the early reporting on this story and he's

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Speaker 2: warming up in the bullpen. Now we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about timelines, what went down behind the scenes, what happens next,

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Speaker 2: all the good stuff. As I said, Dan's going to

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Speaker 2: be back next week. So without further ado, let's just

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Speaker 2: jump right in. Alrighty, we are privileged to welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the show longtime friend of the Solid Verbal from

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Speaker 2: the Athletic, mister Pete Samson, Sir, how are you recovering?

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Speaker 1: Definitely recovering, That's how I am doing right now.

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Speaker 2: So I went back through our text thread from a

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Speaker 2: week ago and I was out walking the dog. It

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Speaker 2: was Monday the twenty ninth, it was five thirty two

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Speaker 2: Eastern time, and that's when I saw your tweet come

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Speaker 2: across that LSU was making Brian Kelly its top target.

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Speaker 2: And it was in that moment where I almost forgot

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Speaker 2: to clutch the leash of the dog and I was

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Speaker 2: a little worried she'd run away with a quick movement,

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Speaker 2: because I was really taken aback by that. I was stunned,

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Speaker 2: not at the notion that somebody would be interested in

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Speaker 2: Brian Kelly, but just that it seemed like it came

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Speaker 2: out of left field. And I texted with you at

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Speaker 2: the time, and I got the sense that you were

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Speaker 2: in a similar place where you got it. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, is this a joke? Should we take

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Speaker 2: this seriously? And you didn't think it was going to

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Speaker 2: happen either until it actually did. Walk me through what

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Speaker 2: you're thinking when you find out through sources or otherwise

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Speaker 2: that this is a thing. How do you like place

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Speaker 2: this inside your head? As is this a real threat?

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Speaker 2: Is this not a real threat?

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Speaker 1: So Monday afternoon is sort of unfolding. I made the

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Speaker 1: brilliant decision to stay on the West Coast for a

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Speaker 1: couple of days of vacation after the Stanford game because

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Speaker 1: nothing was going to happen with under in football. And

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Speaker 1: I'm actually getting my eight year old in and out

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Speaker 1: and Bruce Feldman calls me while we're in the drive

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Speaker 1: through line and we start talking and that at that

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Speaker 1: point it was sort of on. But I was I

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Speaker 1: was more of the Okay, this is a game of chicken,

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Speaker 1: and they're both going to pull up at the last

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Speaker 1: moment and figure out a way to sort of keep

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Speaker 1: keep the good times rolling, so to speak. But then

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Speaker 1: when I started calling sources around Notre Dame sort of

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Speaker 1: at like not above the athletic department, like administration level,

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Speaker 1: so like, is this happening beyond just like, you know,

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Speaker 1: can we get a new facility built? You know, can

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Speaker 1: we get a new contract in? And when you hear

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Speaker 1: that the people who make the decisions at Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: are worried about this, that they're having discussions with Brian

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Speaker 1: Kelly and they're strategizing like all right, is this a

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Speaker 1: situation where you just want a new challenge and in

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Speaker 1: that case we wish you well, Or is this situation

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Speaker 1: where you want more money, Well we can make that work. Facilities,

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Speaker 1: we can make that work. But as soon as I

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Speaker 1: knew that Notre Dame was having the conversations at that

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Speaker 1: level with the perspective of like this is real, well

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Speaker 1: then it was real. Then it stopped being a sort

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Speaker 1: of a trace Armstrong agent move and started being like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is happening. It might not happen today, but like

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Speaker 1: everyone is, we're on the path to Brian Kelly being

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Speaker 1: the next LSU head coach at a moment when man,

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Speaker 1: I did not think that was how that day was

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Speaker 1: going to go at all.

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Speaker 2: And it escalated quickly. It happened very quickly, So the

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Speaker 2: rumors came out and I don't know the exact timing,

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Speaker 2: but I want to say within a couple hours later,

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Speaker 2: I think it was Pete Thammel, maybe it was somebody else.

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Speaker 1: Yep, now it's Pete.

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Speaker 2: Within a matter of hours, it was like, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: thing's going to happen, and it just it happened so quickly.

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Speaker 2: I think that's really been one of the themes of this

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Speaker 2: coaching carousel. We saw it with Lincoln Riley, we saw

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Speaker 2: it with Brian Kelly, these really quick movements almost without

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Speaker 2: any warning.

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Speaker 1: That was that was surprising to me because there really

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Speaker 1: was no back and forth between Brian Kelly and Notre

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Speaker 1: Dame at that point, which I think just sort of

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Speaker 1: speaks to the relationship or lack of one between him

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Speaker 1: and Jack Swarbrick, Like if you don't have a strong relationship,

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Speaker 1: then you you're not going to go to that person

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Speaker 1: and be like, hey, you know, let's talk. I really

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Speaker 1: would like to stay Like you're gonna be like no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this guy's going to pay me one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: over ten years, Like I'm going to make that move.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it was quick. I think that you saw

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Speaker 1: saw how Notre Dame players took that when Brian Kelly

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Speaker 1: put out my love is limitless message in the sort

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Speaker 1: of team chat that night and then came back for

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Speaker 1: his farewell on Tuesday morning. So it was quick, and

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Speaker 1: I mean Notre Dame was already talking to Marcus Freeman

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Speaker 1: about should you be the next head coach that Monday night.

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Speaker 1: That conversation was already happening before Brian Kelly told the

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Speaker 1: team that he's no longer their head coach.

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Speaker 2: I want to come back to that, but you mentioned

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Speaker 2: the Swarbrick Kelly relationship. Swarbrick in his press conference after

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Speaker 2: the fact, indicated that he saw signs. He called it

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Speaker 2: restlessness after working with somebody for a decade plus. What

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Speaker 2: was their relationship like? Because I think both of them

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Speaker 2: referred to their quote unquote friendship. They obviously were close

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Speaker 2: professional associates, but it did get it did give the

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Speaker 2: impression that Swarbricks saw this coming from like a mile away.

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Speaker 1: I think that Swarbricks saw the potential for it at

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Speaker 1: some point, But to say that he anticipated this happening

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Speaker 1: in this way on this timeline, I think is a reach. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, their relationship, I think it's been good for

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Speaker 1: the most part, but I you know, we had reported

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Speaker 1: this out on the Athletic, like Trace Armstrong, Brian Kelly's

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Speaker 1: agent had been pushing for a meeting with Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: post mel Tucker contract to talk about facilities, talk about

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Speaker 1: conversation like repeatedly, almost daily. That meeting never happened. So

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Speaker 1: and that started about a week before the decision to leave.

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Speaker 1: So it's, you know, where their telltale signs. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like you sort of reverse engineer it to find those

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Speaker 1: signs after the fact. But I don't think as things

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Speaker 1: are unfolding that anyone around Notre Dame would say, oh, yep,

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Speaker 1: we saw this coming. You know, there was always a

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Speaker 1: danger of this. You know, Brian kelly leaving doesn't shock me,

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Speaker 1: sort of in a vacuum, but the way he left

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Speaker 1: and where he left too, is really kind of a stunner.

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Speaker 2: The facilities thing is that real? Is that an excuse

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Speaker 2: at a place like Notre Dame because they're not playing

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Speaker 2: on gravel?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like they've put serious investment into an indoor

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Speaker 2: facility and otherwise around Notre Dame. Like I get that,

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Speaker 2: there's a conversation you're always trying to make things better.

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Speaker 2: It does feel like we've gotten to the point, at

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Speaker 2: least at some programs where coaches are able to use

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Speaker 2: that as an excuse like, hey, they wouldn't upgrade the facilities.

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Speaker 2: Now I got to go elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a situation where I mean you see

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Speaker 1: this other places where coaches will be like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: don't even have an indoor facility, Like Notre Am has

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Speaker 1: a really nice indoor facility, it's like about three years old.

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Speaker 1: What they don't have is sort of the training table

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Speaker 1: functionality that the teams that are winning in the playoff have.

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Speaker 1: They don't have I think the mental performance space Brian

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Speaker 1: Kelly thought that they should have. So there's the you know,

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Speaker 1: so facilities investment is necessary, but it's not like their

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Speaker 1: weight room is a YMCA. They they have good facilities,

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Speaker 1: do they have like the best facilities in the country. No,

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Speaker 1: nor is nor do I think Brian Kelly's facilities argument

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Speaker 1: is like, why don't we have a slide in our

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Speaker 1: in our lobby like Clemson, Why don't we have a

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Speaker 1: putt putt golf course? Why don't we have a barber shop?

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Speaker 1: Like those are pods like at LSU, Yeah, right, like

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Speaker 1: sleep pods. I mean they had float tanks up here.

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Speaker 1: So if it has a functional element like Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: is down for that, they want to do that, or

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Speaker 1: Brian Kelly wanted to do that, the whiz bang bells

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Speaker 1: and whistles like Notre Dame knows that is all kind

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Speaker 1: of a show and that's not really why you're coming

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Speaker 1: to Notre Dame in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk back through this timeline. Then you say

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Speaker 2: Monday already they're talked to Freeman. Was he the top

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Speaker 2: target because there was that slip up, whether it was

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Speaker 2: just an inference by Brian Kelly or an indicator of

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Speaker 2: something maybe that he knew, I you know, no one

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Speaker 2: really knew where to place that, but was freaming the

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Speaker 2: top target interview.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he was, like in a universal sense,

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Speaker 1: because look, if if Cincinnati was not in the playoff,

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Speaker 1: then I think probably Luke Fickle is your top target.

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Speaker 1: But look, Cincinnati's in the playoffs, so he's he's not

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Speaker 1: available because there's a there's a world in college football

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Speaker 1: where coaches don't leave playoff contenders right before the playoff.

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Speaker 1: You know, Luke Fickle lives in that world. So it's

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Speaker 1: you know, if Luke Fickle was available, this is probably

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Speaker 1: a different conversation. But I mean, Matt Campbell was one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent available. Matt Campbell would have taken this shot.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think Notarame really pursued that in any capacity.

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Speaker 1: And when you talk about sort of the speed of everything,

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Speaker 1: with the speed of the departures of the hire was

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Speaker 1: also a bit shocking because you go, you're all in

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Speaker 1: on a thirty five year old, first time head coach

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Speaker 1: in a matter of forty eight hours, seventy two hours.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was a social media campaign from Notre

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Speaker 1: Dame's roster. There was a bit of a social media

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Speaker 1: campaign from Notre Dame's commitments. You know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you want to have teenagers make your most important higher

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Speaker 1: but that was part of it. But I think ultimately

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Speaker 1: what got Freeman over the line is like when everything

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Speaker 1: hit the fan, the people who make the decisions at

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame, like the people who are advising Jack Swarbrook,

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Speaker 1: were already in on Freeman. It's not like Freeman had

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Speaker 1: to go and build a relationship with a big time donor.

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Speaker 1: You know. Basically, the class of people at Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: whose names are on buildings, they already liked Marcus Freeman

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Speaker 1: as their next as the next head coach here the

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Speaker 1: minute Brian Kelly departed, so that that I think was

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Speaker 1: sort of critical on how quickly this all was.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think they were so in on Freeman?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you watched his press conference, he

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Speaker 1: watched the video of him coming into the locker room,

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Speaker 1: That's that's who he is. I mean, it's not a show.

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Speaker 1: So if you spend time around Freeman, that's what you get.

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Speaker 1: He's just such a dynamic com communicator and it's like

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Speaker 1: one of those guys there. I think it's very it's rare.

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Speaker 1: It's difficult for coaches to sort of manage up and

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Speaker 1: manage down, like the ability to get into a living

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Speaker 1: room with a seventeen year old linebacker from South Carolina

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Speaker 1: but also talk to a fortune five hundred CEO with

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Speaker 1: sort of equal dexterity is rare. I think it's even

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Speaker 1: rarer that you can do that without it seeming like

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Speaker 1: a show as you don't. It doesn't come across with

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Speaker 1: Marcus Freeman as an act or that he's trying to

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Speaker 1: sort of move between audiences. He just does. So I

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Speaker 1: think that that is to me, the biggest part of

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Speaker 1: the whole thing with him. You know, I've written a

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Speaker 1: bunch of times just the authenticity really comes through. And

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Speaker 1: that's not just with players, it's with trustees, it's with CEOs,

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Speaker 1: you know, certain with players and their parents. So that

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Speaker 1: I think you just added up. That's that's where you

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Speaker 1: kind of get the kind of the full package.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you've written a lot about the new energy

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Speaker 2: at Notre Dame, and my sense is it's that authenticity

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Speaker 2: that is really what's coming across.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I asked Mama, h my mom, Notre Dame enthusiasts before

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Speaker 2: I did this with you, do you have any questions

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Speaker 2: for Pete? And she said, yeah, ask him why Brian

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Speaker 2: Kelly's such a dick. So I'm not going to phrase

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Speaker 2: it like that, thank you, but I have found very

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Speaker 2: interesting over the last decade plus with Brian Kelly. I'm

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Speaker 2: interested in his character arc because he's a guy who

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Speaker 2: has been wildly successful. Everywhere he's been, He's been I

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Speaker 2: think universe perversally spoken of from people who have dealt

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Speaker 2: with him as generically a nice guy, but yet universally

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Speaker 2: around college football, outside of a couple little tribes, he's

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Speaker 2: sort of viewed as the villain. And I've always tried

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Speaker 2: to figure out why is that? And then the accent happened,

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Speaker 2: and that's why. You know, the accent's goofy, and of

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Speaker 2: course it's meaningless and we're all gonna make jokes about it.

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Speaker 2: But that's why the accent is actually kind of important

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Speaker 2: because I think what I get from the accent is, aha,

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Speaker 2: Brian Kelly might be fake nice, and that's why people

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Speaker 2: don't connect with him in the same way they do

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Speaker 2: Marcus Freeman. That's why the energy feels different. You don't

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Speaker 2: have to like go through all of that, peete, But

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Speaker 2: do you get that same sense that that authenticity is

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Speaker 2: something that was lacking at Notre Dame.

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Speaker 1: I do I think that. I mean, we always describe

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Speaker 1: Brian Kelly as a Boston politician, because that he grew

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Speaker 1: up in that in that world, and that served him

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Speaker 1: incredibly well at Notre Dame. Oh yeah, that's why he

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Speaker 1: made it twelve years here through like legitimate tragedy early

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Speaker 1: on he was able to sort of get to the

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Speaker 1: other side of that. But in the same way that

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Speaker 1: when you talk to Marcus Freeman and it is authentic

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Speaker 1: and natural and you don't feel like he's straining or

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Speaker 1: trying to connect with you. Brian Kelly turned that on

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Speaker 1: and off. With Marcus Freeman. There's there's not a switch,

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Speaker 1: it's just like who he is. So that part of it,

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Speaker 1: I think is real. That that is part of the energy.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, look, you got twenty five years younger

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Speaker 1: with your head coach. You got cool at Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: with your new head coach, Like these are new worlds

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Speaker 1: for Notre Dame all of a sudden. I mean you

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Speaker 1: think about the three head coaches before him, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: go for like Bob Davey, Tyrone Willingham, Charlie Weiss, Brian Kelly.

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Speaker 1: What was cool, young, hip, energetic or authentic about any

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Speaker 1: of them? Like nothing? And so you're like Marcus Freeman,

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Speaker 1: I think for the Nurian fan base. You might as

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Speaker 1: well be glowing when he's on the podium at his

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Speaker 1: press conference, because it just it suddenly makes things feel

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Speaker 1: like possible and optimistic at a place that I think

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Speaker 1: has sometimes been over backwards to tell you how hard

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Speaker 1: it is to win here. Now you have a head

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Speaker 1: coach who is not just leaning into that, but like

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Speaker 1: you feel like, okay, well this is this is the

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Speaker 1: guy that maybe can actually climb that mountain.

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Speaker 2: It was a complete rebranding in like seventy two hours.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely wild. I mean I see like the family

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Speaker 1: photo that they've shot at Midfield of him and Joanna

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Speaker 1: and the six kids, and you're like, holy crap, like

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Speaker 1: this this family is They're just like sparkling here, like

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Speaker 1: this is a Christmas card all of a sudden at

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame. And yeah, he's onder because he hasn't lost

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Speaker 1: a game, but I hasn't won one either, But it

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Speaker 1: just is it's just this new energy that you feel

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Speaker 1: around from the NOTEM fan base, and like you, being

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Speaker 1: an notarime fan, can relate to this, Like when is

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Speaker 1: the last time the RAM fan base was united on anything? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think they're pretty much united on.

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Speaker 2: This one well, and even Notre Dame haters. Pete right,

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Speaker 2: I was getting text messages from Penn State fans, from

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Speaker 2: USC fans, people that are very close friends, who have

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Speaker 2: never once rooted for Notre Dame, saying I hope Notre

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Speaker 2: Dame makes the playoff? What year is this?

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Speaker 1: How did this happen so quickly? America's team?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I made the joke. Maybe that's Brian Kelly's lasting

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Speaker 2: achievement Notre Dame, not building the program back to a

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Speaker 2: point of stability, but building them to a point of

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Speaker 2: likability now in absentia.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty wild that you you hear that nationally from

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Speaker 1: fans of other schools, you know, even I think even

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Speaker 1: people who don't it's not even just people who like

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Speaker 1: or dislike Notre Dame. I think it's people who are

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Speaker 1: like casually invested in college football, don't really know anything

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Speaker 1: about it, and then they see Marcus Freeman like all right,

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Speaker 1: like I can get behind that guy, like oh man,

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Speaker 1: look at a video of him in the locker room.

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Speaker 1: Like it just I think it gets to people who

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Speaker 1: are outside of like the tribal nature of college football

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Speaker 1: fandom in a way that Notre Dame just doesn't, and

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Speaker 1: most schools don't, but Marcus Freeman. That's I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that's part of the authenticity really coming through. People

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Speaker 1: gravitate towards that.

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Speaker 2: Well, nobody likes the guy who chases the bag, and

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Speaker 2: they dislike that character more than they would otherwise dislike

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Speaker 2: Notre Dame. And so it was just an incredible turn

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Speaker 2: of phrase in a very short period of time. I'm

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Speaker 2: getting these text messages. You've got to be kidding me, like,

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Speaker 2: how did we arrive here? Anyway? That's neither here nor there.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to the Freeman timeline. So you say

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Speaker 2: they start the conversation on Monday in earnest trying to

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Speaker 2: gauge his interest. Were there any other names like Fickle

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Speaker 2: as you said, probably not available because he's not going

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Speaker 2: to leave in the middle of a playoff run. Matt

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Speaker 2: Campbell available, maybe not under a serious consideration. Who else

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Speaker 2: was actually a candidate for this thing outside of Freeman?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think Pat forty s I reported that

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Speaker 1: there were eight sort of candidates, Like if you just

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Speaker 1: had a board, you'd have eight names on it, and

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Speaker 1: then they quickly crossed off I think five or six

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Speaker 1: of them. So I think you got down to Fickle

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Speaker 1: and Freeman quickly. Like my sources indicate that Campbell was

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Speaker 1: never seriously approached for it, So I don't believe there

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Speaker 1: was another formal interview the best I can tell, So

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Speaker 1: it was they quickly got to Marcus Freeman, which you

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Speaker 1: kind of have to do in seventy two hours, right,

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Speaker 1: you know. Jack Swarbrick said, like Freeman was the only

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Speaker 1: non sitting head coach who was a candidate, which I

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Speaker 1: think sort of speaks to where Notre Dame is as

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Speaker 1: a program today versus when Brian Kelly showed up, uh,

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Speaker 1: Tuesday night, Tommy Reese flew back from California to sort

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Speaker 1: of interview for the OC job, or not interview for it,

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Speaker 1: but like talk to Swarbrick about like, all right, where

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Speaker 1: do you want what do you want to do? Where

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Speaker 1: do you want this to go? You know, he wanted

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Speaker 1: to stay. Brian Kelly was throwing a ton of money

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Speaker 1: at him to come to l s U No name.

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Speaker 1: I think, to my surprise, personally basically matched that. And

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Speaker 1: so that stays the strength coach Matt Bayless stays. And

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Speaker 1: at that point, I mean my understanding talking to sources is.

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Speaker 1: Once you had Bayless and Reese locked up on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: then Freeman became a much better candidate because what do

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Speaker 1: you what do you want a first time head coach

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Speaker 1: who's on defense not to have to worry about what

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Speaker 1: offense am I running? Well, okay, you have Tommy Reese here,

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Speaker 1: who who I for? How much? I think people sort

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Speaker 1: of give him crap? Is very popular in the locker room,

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Speaker 1: and I do think he has a ton of sort

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Speaker 1: of of play calling ability and smarts, and I think

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Speaker 1: he's just sort of a rising star in the industry.

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Speaker 1: Matt Bayless, incredibly popular with the locker room, has been

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest architects of the turnaround. After twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: he shows up after that season suddenly notre name is

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Speaker 1: good again, So that I think once you took those

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Speaker 1: off the table, then Marcus Freeman as a candidate, it

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well he's the first time head coach,

387
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Speaker 1: but string program's in a good shape and we know

388
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Speaker 1: what offense were running, so what about this guy? And

389
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Speaker 1: then he interviews with Jack Swarbrick on Wednesday. At that point,

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Speaker 1: Freeman sort of goes underground for about twenty four hours

391
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Speaker 1: while they're doing background checks and figuring out, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're avoiding the Georgia Leary Part two situation, and then

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Speaker 1: Friday morning he emerges in the locker room. So it

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Speaker 1: was I think, but basically by Wednesday night or Thursday warning,

395
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Speaker 1: I believe that's when they sort of knew it was

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Speaker 1: going to be him, and then they just had to

397
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Speaker 1: check a ton of boxes until Friday morning.

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Speaker 2: So they get Reese and the strength coach in place

399
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Speaker 2: before they get Freeman, which by the way, is not

400
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Speaker 2: terribly uncommon among first time ahead football coaches. You hear

401
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Speaker 2: about that all the time, where the administration has more

402
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Speaker 2: of an active hand in setting the staff that will

403
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Speaker 2: be around the head guy. I don't know if I

404
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Speaker 2: remember hearing that at Notre Dame, though, Like it's usually

405
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Speaker 2: the guy coming in is the one who's going to

406
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Speaker 2: set precedent. He's going to be the one who sets

407
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Speaker 2: his system and you know, dots all the ey's and

408
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Speaker 2: crosses the t's. Do you get the sense that Freeman

409
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Speaker 2: was I guess more attracted to that type of situation

410
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Speaker 2: where he had that stability or he was sort of

411
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Speaker 2: given like no choice, like this is the way it's

412
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Speaker 2: going to be. We want these guys either take it

413
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Speaker 2: or leave it.

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Speaker 1: More the former than the ladder.

415
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Speaker 2: Uh.

416
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Speaker 1: But I don't think Freeman had any sort of like, well,

417
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Speaker 1: I want to run a four wide vertical offense and

418
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Speaker 1: if I can't do that, then I'm going to go

419
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Speaker 1: be the head coach at Miami. Like I don't think

420
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Speaker 1: that was ever sort of his vibe. So he gets

421
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Speaker 1: along with Reese. Reese gets along with him. They have

422
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Speaker 1: a good professional relationship. I think they have a good

423
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Speaker 1: personal relationship from what I can gather talking to people

424
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Speaker 1: over at Notre Dame. So there was no sort of

425
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Speaker 1: hesitancy about like, well, I have some very strong ideas

426
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Speaker 1: of what I want to do offensively, you know. I

427
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: think they want to stick with the offense that they're

428
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Speaker 1: running that actually, you know, accentuates the personnel that they have.

429
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Speaker 1: So I think it just removed a huge question from

430
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Speaker 1: Freeman's plate. But it also removed a huge question from

431
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Speaker 1: Notre Dame about Freeman because they had Reese ready to.

432
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Speaker 2: Go because of all this. Do you get any sense

433
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 2: that they're relieved they're not in the playoff?

434
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: No, don't, I don't you know? Are they are they

435
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: gonna certainly they're not gonna say that out loud, but

436
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: it would have been incredible to see that America's team

437
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: happen for Notre Dame, you know, if they're going up

438
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: against Michigan or Georgia or whoever. But I would say,

439
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: I it's not the worst thing in the world that

440
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: Marcus Freeman's coaching debut is not against Kirby Smart or

441
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh, so that you know, they go against a

442
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: team that's losing its defensive coordinator Ohio State, you know,

443
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: I think a team that they're favored in and as

444
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, like when Noram ends up in these major bowls,

445
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: they're running into JaMarcus Russell or Ezekiel Elliott or Joey

446
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: Bosa or Santonio Holmes and Ted Ginn like Oklahoma State

447
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: is not that. So it's it's a good chance for

448
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: for Noraim to go out in a major bowl game

449
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: where they're favored, which they have not been favored in

450
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: a long long time.

451
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: Do we know what Marcus Freeman's getting paid.

452
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: We do not. I believe it is. I don't know

453
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: if it's around where Kelly was making, but we never

454
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: knew what Kelly was making either you know, I think

455
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: the assumption with Kelly was sort of seven to eight million.

456
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if Notre Dame went above that

457
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: for our first time head coach. But based on my

458
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: understanding of Reese being the highest paid coordinator of Notre

459
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: Dame history, I think that Notre Dame sort of saw

460
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: this as like, all right, you know, these are our guys.

461
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: We're going to invest in them, We're going to back them.

462
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's a situation at all where

463
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: Notre Dame was like, well, we can save a few

464
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: bucks on Marcus Freeman. You know, I think they were

465
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: all in on backing him financially.

466
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: What changes from this point forward? Maybe there's a different energy.

467
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: We know that recruiting has I think continued on on

468
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: a very good trajectory. There haven't been a ton of

469
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: flips or decommits anything like transfers, right, I mean, everybody

470
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: seems pretty much in lockstep with the move. They like

471
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: Marcus Freeman. The video is definitely indicative of how the

472
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: team feels with this move.

473
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: They like him.

474
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: There will be tweaks, though, and I'm wondering if you've

475
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: got any sense for what those tweaks might look like

476
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: because probably not in the short term. You know, it's

477
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: going to look like business as usual when they play

478
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: in the Fiesta Bowl against Oklahoma State. But it's a

479
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: tough schedule next year, as you know, I mean there's

480
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: five very losable games on that schedule next season. What

481
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: kinds of nuances or small tweaks do you think we

482
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: can expect to see maybe before next season?

483
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Who calls the plays defensively will be fascinating to me

484
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: because I think that Freeman had a slow start to

485
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: the year that then got very hot as a defensive

486
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 1: play caller here. Certainly his track record Cincinnati is what

487
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: it is, but he didn't have autonomy at Cincinnati. Running

488
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: the defense is Luke fickle and then Marcus Freeman called

489
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: the defense, you know, similar to what Reese and Kelly

490
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: were like here. You know, Reese ran the offense, but

491
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 1: Kelly had oversight of it. So, you know, does Freeman

492
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: have enough time in the day to be the lead

493
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: recruiter on every prospect that no names? After which he

494
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: said that he would I take him at his word.

495
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: Only hesitancy is there's like, there's only twenty four hours

496
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: in the day here, So how he runs that will

497
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: be interesting. You know, Can Notre Dame get the facility

498
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: upgrade that Brian Kelly wanted built in the next couple

499
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: of years. I believe that they will. But in terms

500
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: of the day, the day to day, you know, Freeman

501
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: has said it multiple times, and I'll be interested to

502
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: sort of dig deeper with him when I get a

503
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: chance to sit down with him. It's like, you say,

504
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: nothing's changing, but you want to enhance, Like, well, you know,

505
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: enhancement is a change, right, So.

506
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: Is that.

507
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: Facilities? Is that how you manage the player's time. Is

508
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: that Notre Dame's ability to take undergraduate transfers more seamlessly

509
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: than they can which is not something that they've done.

510
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't really know, And I do think you look

511
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: at Notre Dame and think, all right, how the program

512
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: is running day to day? You you do not want

513
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: to change a whole lot. They've won forty two straight

514
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: games against unranked teams. They're aknown commodity every Saturday, whether

515
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: fifty four wins over the last five years, to the

516
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: playoff twice. Like the question to me is like what

517
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: needs to recruiting needs to change? That's that's if Notre

518
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: Dame is going to climb the mountain. They're going to

519
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: do it through recruiting. I don't think there's any whiz

520
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: bang operational changes Notre Dame is going to make that's

521
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: going to affect the program in a serious way other

522
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: than how do you figure out how to get better

523
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: talent coming in the door? How do you get two

524
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton's every year, or how do you get three

525
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: Michael Mayers instead of just one of each?

526
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: I can't remember another time, at least, you know, over

527
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: the last twenty years. I mean, you've been covering the

528
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: team for twenty plus years now, Pete, and maybe you've

529
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: got better perspect on this than I do. But it

530
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: seems as if the appointment, the promotion of Marcus Freeman

531
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: has almost given more instant credibility to Notre Dame on

532
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: the recruiting trail than before, like even with those other coaches.

533
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: You know, we can take Weiss as an example. Weiss

534
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: was also viewed as a bit of a risk, a

535
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: first time head coach, someone who had familiarity, in his

536
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: case with Notre Dame. He was mostly sold to people,

537
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: I think on the strength of what he did with

538
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: Tom Brady and the new England Patriots, rightfully so, but

539
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: there was never quite that lift in the recruiting game

540
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: that I think we've seen in a very short period

541
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: of time now under Marcus Freeman. And so that's why,

542
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: even though this is a bit of a risk to

543
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: put a first time guy in charge of a program

544
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: that's already performing at such a high level, I don't

545
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: think I'm as weirded out by it, because we know

546
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: the recruiting is going to continue on that trajectory, and

547
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: if anybody's going to figure out how better to sell

548
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: Notre Dame to recruits, it's going to be Marcus Freeman.

549
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: You know, It's I would disagree a little bit on Weiss.

550
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: You look at the classes that he signed. He signed

551
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: better classes than what Kelly had signed, and it like

552
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: it was a it was a real mess early on.

553
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: But then you're talking about you know, Golden Tate, Michael Floyd,

554
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: Jimmy Clausen, Kyle Rudolph. You know, he signed some really

555
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: good talent, but you know, just the program did not

556
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: fit together. He didn't know how to run a defense,

557
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: never could get the coordinator right there, which again kind

558
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: of as a corollary to Freeman and Reeese. So, but

559
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: the point with recruiting me in the uptick like you

560
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: have an aggressive, young, good looking guy who is going

561
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: to be able to relate to these players in a

562
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: way that a sixty year old is not going to

563
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: be able to. I mean, I always used to joke

564
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: like if Notre Dame got every prospect whose parents wanted

565
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: the kid at Notre Dame, like Bob Davey would have

566
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: won four hundred games, he would still be the head coach.

567
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: But that's not how it works. Like, you got to

568
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: get the prospect on board. And I cannot imagine there's

569
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: a lot of head coaches out there that are going

570
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: to do a better job relating to kids than Marcus Freeman.

571
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: I was. There was a four star, five star safety,

572
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: Xavier Wanpa who committed to Iowa this week and Notre

573
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: Dame was in it, but the Catholic school in northern

574
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: Indiana was not really much of a selling point. But

575
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: I had our Iowa reporter Scott Doctorman. He went to

576
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: the press conference for the commitment and asked both the

577
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: Xavier and his mom about Marcus Freeman, and they the

578
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: mom said, if Xavier was making a decision purely based

579
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: on the head coach, like it was Notre Dame. Like

580
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Notre Dame's head coach was was a value add to

581
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: the recruitment in Marcus. You never heard that before. No,

582
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: that is, you did not hear any prospect any where

583
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: say like, I'm going to Notre Dame because of Brian

584
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: everything else here with the degree and the network and

585
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: the tradition and all the other stuff. Like you know

586
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of schools have great tradition degrees are

587
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: you know a lot of schools have good academics. But

588
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: to have that here with the head coach as a

589
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: dynamic recruiter, that that, to me has a chance to

590
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: sort of really throw gas on, you know, a fire

591
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: that has gotten better, but with Marcus leading the way,

592
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: I think I would be fascinated to sort of see

593
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: where that goes.

594
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: You've been covering the team for a while. You saw

595
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: the end of the Bob Davey era. You saw the

596
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: Oldleary debacle, the move to Willingham, the Weiss debacle, and

597
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: the rise again of Notre Dame football under Brian Kelly

598
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: and now Marcus Freeman. That's at least five Did I

599
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: miss anything that I get all of them.

600
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: I think you got yeah, I think you got everything there.

601
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: Can we rank those? Can we rank those? Just in

602
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: terms of, you know, the Pete Sampson like excitability index.

603
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: You know, where are you at with respect to Marcus

604
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: Freeman versus the excitement that initially was very much there

605
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: with Charlie Weiss versus you know, I'd imagine we have

606
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: to put the O'Leary thing or the Willingham era near

607
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: the bottom because that whole thing was sort of a debacle.

608
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: Kelly was always kind of like the smart higher and

609
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: not anything that felt sexy in the moment, but definitely

610
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: the kind of thing that made a lot of like

611
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: practical sense. The Freeman one feels like it might be

612
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: at the very top.

613
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's there's certainly some recency bias that

614
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm trying to guard against, but I can't quite fend

615
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: off based on you know, what you're seeing from the

616
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 1: team and the press conference and the recruiting energy. So

617
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: in terms of excitement, Freeman would be one. I would

618
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: still put Kelly too, because that was a time where

619
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: you're like, well, not only football is a hot and

620
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: this guy has won everywhere he's been, So if it

621
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: doesn't work with this guy. It might not work ever,

622
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: so you felt like there was some air of certainty there.

623
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: Willingham would definitely be last. I would put O'Leary above him,

624
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: based purely on the by George It's o Leary t

625
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: shirts that they made and hang out and handed out

626
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: at his press conference.

627
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: And the resume thing was so ridiculous too. I mean,

628
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: it was so ridiculous in hindsight we look back and

629
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, I mean I was never the biggest Georgia

630
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: Leary fan. The resume thing was so goofy in hindsight,

631
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: and Willingham getting getting caught up in that. He didn't

632
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: do anything to deserve it. He was just in a

633
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: really bad situation on the back end of that O'Leary debacle.

634
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: That yeah, I mean, you almost have to put him

635
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: last by default.

636
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Weiss would be in the middle. I mean,

637
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: the bluster, you know, the way that that thing started with,

638
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen wins in two years, as it went

639
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: to the BCS game twice they had that you know,

640
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: the USC his signature win the loss to USC against

641
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, like that was that was

642
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: kind of a that was probably the single most like

643
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: energetic game that I've covered in twenty one years. But yeah,

644
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: the excitement around Marcus Freeman I think is at a

645
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: different level. And that may be a byproduct of like

646
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: the access we have through social media to Marcus Freeman

647
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: and seeing how the players react. But I have a

648
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: very difficult times thinking like, yes, there was some video

649
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: shot on VHS of the players meeting Charlie Weiss and

650
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: they were just as excited to meet him as they

651
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: were to meet Marcus Freeman last week.

652
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, you bring up a good point with Weiss though,

653
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: and you know I'm not the first person to say this,

654
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: but Weiss, to some extent, was the victim of his

655
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: own early success. He did very well, very quickly, and

656
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: then as it diminished, as it dwindled off, that was

657
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: when it started to come off the swivel a little bit.

658
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: Marcus Freeman, I think, is in a much different situation now.

659
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: The program's in a good spot and recruitings at an

660
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: all time high. They've got a great roster that was

661
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: young this year that I think has a lot of

662
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: room to improve, but they start out hot next year. Yes,

663
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: right on the road against Ohio State. There's also a

664
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: game in Vegas against BYU, which is probably not a cupcake.

665
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: There's a Clemson game at home. Clemson's going to be better.

666
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: There's a Boston College game, which Boston College is always

667
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: kind of at Notre Dame's throat and they will be better.

668
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 2: And then they close out the year at USC after

669
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 2: USC has a full season under Lincoln Riley. So it's

670
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: not an easy schedule by any stretch of the imagination.

671
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: I wonder how people will feel if you and I

672
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: are talking a year from now and Notre Dame goes

673
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: eight and four.

674
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people will be disappointed for sure. Kind

675
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: of question my mail bag today about out, you know,

676
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: if this doesn't work, what happened? And then you look

677
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: at the schedule which you just brought up, But it's

678
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that they have Clemson in Ohio

679
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: State home and home this year, next year, and then

680
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: again in twenty twenty three, and then you have Texas

681
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: A and M home and home in twenty four to

682
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: twenty five. USC and Lincoln Riley is not going to

683
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: be USC. Clay Hilton, Yeah, I didn't even include BYU

684
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: in there, But you look back at Brian Kelly was

685
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: three and eight against top ten teams in twelve years.

686
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: Everybody it was three in ten. Excuse me, Like Marcus

687
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: Freeman could play as many top ten teams in his

688
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: first four years as Brian Kelly played in twelve. So

689
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: the schedule is completely different than what Brian Kelly faced.

690
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: So that that I will be interested to sort of

691
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: see if Nor Dame fans sort of grade Marcus freemant

692
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: on a curve, not less because he's the first time

693
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: head coach, and more because he's just playing really good

694
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: teams all the time, and Brian Kelly did not. Toward

695
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: the end of his tenure. It's you know, the guy

696
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: had three top ten wins in twelve years. That's that

697
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: is not good. You know that you have to deliver

698
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: on that stage more than Brian Kelly did. So Marcus

699
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: Freeman is going to be on that stage a lot,

700
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: and he's going to be learning how to deal with

701
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: it while he's on it, and that that's very difficult.

702
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: So I think that Not Name's fan base will probably

703
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: accommodate that a little bit. Certainly in his first year

704
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: they're like, all right, that's that excitement that you felt

705
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: with that locker room video and that press conference. Let's

706
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: see if that maintains after you lose by fourteen points

707
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: or seventeen points in Columbus. I don't know, but I

708
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: think that it would be wise if you're a no

709
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: name fan base to have some perspective that you're you

710
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: hired a guy that has to learn on the job.

711
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: You accept that today, you also have to accept that

712
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: in September or October, November.

713
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: And I think people can tolerate eight and four. The

714
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: problem is the schedule. It's a really difficult schedule. Fans

715
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 2: can tolerate eight and four if it's like an Arkansas

716
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: eight and four, right, Like, Yeah, you watch the team,

717
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 2: you know they're better than their record would indicate. But

718
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: it really is a product of the schedule. What fans

719
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: don't like to tolerate, and I know this well, is

720
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: what happened at Penn State. James Franklin has done great

721
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: things in state college, but he lost a bunch of

722
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: games this year. They didn't have depth behind their quarterback.

723
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: I mean, we could talk till we're blue in the

724
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: face about what went wrong at Penn State. But that's

725
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: the reason why fans are very quickly turning on James

726
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: Franklin because it felt like they left a lot on

727
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 2: the table. So it'll be interesting to see what happens,

728
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: as you said, in a very short period of time

729
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 2: here for Marcus Freeman, knowing that they've got this kind

730
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: of schedule in front of them, I'm curious to see

731
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: what he does a defensive coordinator, you know, as you

732
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 2: alluded earlier, have we heard anything else? I know it's

733
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: probably very early, but we have any kind of indication

734
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: as to where he might go in that capacity.

735
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: We don't. I mean, on the one hand, you could

736
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: promote Mike Elston, who's been the defensive line coach here

737
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: for twelve years, has been passed over for the DC

738
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: job a few times, including for Marcus Freeman. Mike Mickens

739
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: has never been a coordinator. Played with Marcus Freeman in

740
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: high school. He's the corners coach. They coached together at

741
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: Cincinnati before Mickens moved over here two years ago. So

742
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: there are a couple options there, and you know, we'll

743
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: but we'll notre Dame go outside and find a coach

744
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: who maybe is a little bit more veteran, has some

745
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: different ideas. That's that's possible, But if you're running Marcus

746
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: Freeman's defense, I'm not sure that you need to go

747
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: outside and get somebody who's incredibly experienced in a different

748
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: system that you're not going to run anyway. So I'm

749
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: not sure where they go with that. You know, special

750
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: teams is open. I would love to see them make

751
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: a run at somebody like Kerry Coombs from Ohio State,

752
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: who's sort of done a little bit of everything. Ohio Ties,

753
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, knows, Marcus Freeman knows, you know, Mike Elston.

754
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: They coached together at Cincinnati under Brian Kelly. So it's

755
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: I would like to see them get some experience on

756
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: the staff, like it doesn't need to all be thirty

757
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: year olds. But I don't know what Marcus Freeman has

758
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: in mind for like philosophically, what he needs in a DC.

759
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: Well, it'll be fascinating. It's been I think one of

760
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: the more fascinating stories throughout the coaching carousel. It's already

761
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: been one of the more active coaching carousels that we've

762
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: seen in recent memory. But the rise of sort of

763
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 2: the first time head coach. We're seeing it at Oklahoma

764
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: as well, we've seen it elsewhere around college football. That's

765
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: sort of been a cool story that I don't know

766
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: we necessarily saw coming at the start of all this.

767
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: So we'll definitely be tuned into you to see what

768
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: else you have to offer, what else your sources are

769
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: telling you as we go through bowl season, most of

770
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: the off season here and build towards twenty twenty two.

771
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: But it's been it's been interesting to watch. I hope

772
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: you're able to get some sleep now. Are you still

773
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: on the West Coast?

774
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: No? No, I've had long since return to South Bend.

775
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: I saw at the press conference, so yes, when Jack

776
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: Serbrick did his immediate sort of crisis management press conference

777
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: at ten am Eastern, that was seven am Pacific, where

778
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: I was in a hotel room trying not to wake

779
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: up my kids. What did you do with the eight

780
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: year old in that scenario that you described earlier when

781
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: you got the call from how did he deal? He

782
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: got in and out? Yeah, he got in and out

783
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: and ate and ate it in the back of the car.

784
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: And then I was like, all right, guys, this this

785
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: might be the end of my vacation. I know you

786
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: guys are here for another day, but like, this might

787
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: be it for me. So how much do they care

788
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: they more than I thought. They had some strong opinions

789
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: about Brian Kelly that I will not stay live. But

790
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: they also they also seem to really like Marcus Freeman.

791
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: I think they're picking up on that energy, so that

792
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: a new day for them as well.

793
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: Kids are a good judge of character. Man Pete Sampson

794
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: from The Athletic go read him if you like Notre

795
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: Dame Am or just if you like college football. He

796
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: does a great job. Check out the podcast he does

797
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: with our other friend Matt for Tuna Out of the Shamrock.

798
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 1: You can listen.

799
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: Just go to the Athletic dot com. Pete, I wish

800
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: you well. I know we talk every so often when

801
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: things like this happen, but it's always a pleasure to

802
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: get your insight.

803
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thanks guy.

804
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: All Right, that's Pete Sampson. Don't forget to check him

805
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 2: out over at the Athletic. He's at Pete Sampson Underscore

806
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: on Twitter. So make sure you throw our guy a

807
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: follow and thank him for coming on the show. Final

808
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: housekeeping note here before we let you go, we did

809
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: draw a winner for the RG three Mini Helmet Roland Stewart,

810
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: Rolin Stewart. I'm not sure exactly how you say the name,

811
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: but congrats, my friend. Our people are going to contact

812
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 2: your people and get your infos so we can send

813
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: out your prize, your RG three mini helmet, and many

814
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 2: thanks to the thousands upon thousands of entries we got

815
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: in this thing. It was incredible. Some reviews that I

816
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: want to call out from Overballerhood from Mickey college Football Xanadu,

817
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: great unbiased national take on college football with a touch

818
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: of humor.

819
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: Thank you to him.

820
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: Thank you to Mike who says, why in the world

821
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 2: does this show so addicting? A must listen for college football, food,

822
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: and overall everything. Download and subscribe now, Mike, I agree,

823
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: Download and subscribe now. And finally to our guy Royce,

824
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: who's been listening since the Grantlin days, he said, we

825
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: strike a very difficult balance between genuine analysis, fandom and

826
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: humor that doesn't take this clearly stupid sport to seriously.

827
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: Thank you Royce, Thank you everybody. We appreciate all the reviews,

828
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: all the kind words. And now you can go back

829
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: out to solid giveaway dot com because the contest is

830
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: back on. It is still free to enter. You just

831
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: need to go through a few steps, and this month,

832
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 2: perhaps fittingly, we're giving away Desmond Howard signed Minnie helmet.

833
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: So going back out there, solgiveaway dot Com. This contest

834
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: ends the day of the National Championship on January the tenth.

835
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: Maybe Michigan will be in that game. We'll see one

836
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: more time, so I'll giveaway dot com and Playwinter Wonders

837
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: dot Com for the Bowl Confidence Pool. You have until

838
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: December seventeenth, next Friday, to get in on that. Dan

839
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: and I are going to be previewing games starting next

840
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: week and we've got a special YouTube stream planned for

841
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: next Wednesday night to talk about that in a little

842
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: bit more detail, So stay tuned for more on that.

843
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 2: In the meantime, thank you so much to our guest

844
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: of honor Pete Sampson. We're going to be back in

845
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: full force again next Monday. Enjoy your weekend and by

846
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: all means, stay solid.