1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alec Baldwin here. Before we launch our next 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: season of Here's the Thing at iHeartRadio in January, I 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: thought i'd play some of my favorite shows from the archives. 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: Next up is Pam Alardo, former Deputy Commissioner of the 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: Bureau of Wastewater Treatment in New York City. I enjoyed 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: talking with her about what happens to all the water 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: that goes down the drain in New York. Also joining 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: us is Ron Gonan, former Deputy Commissioner of Sanitation, Recycling 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: and Sustainability aka New York City's first recycling Czar. Enjoy 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: my conversation with Pam Alardo and Ron Gonan. This is 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing 12 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio. Think about how much waste you generate 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: every day. The advil bottle, the styrofoam tray for your chicken, 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: the chicken bone, the toilet, paper tissues, and paper towels 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: you consume. We're about to get dirty here, so think 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: of the human waste too. Now multiply that by eight 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: point five million for all of New York City. That's 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: one point three billion gallons of wastewater every day. Sixteen 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: million pounds of trash eight million pounds of recyclables every. 20 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: Day of every week. 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Today you'll hear from two of the best people tackling 22 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: all that waste after the break. New York City's first 23 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: recyclings are but first. Pam Alardo a big name in sewage. 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: Since last year, she's led New York City's Bureau of 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: Wastewater Treatment. Mayor Deblasio poached her from Seattle, where she 26 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: spearheaded an unprecedented upgrade of that city's wastewater treatment infrastructure. 27 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: Why'd you leave Seattle to come here? 28 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: Great question? 29 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: Do you ever look at your life as an older 30 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 4: person and you kind of look at your life as 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 4: a third party? Like that wasn't me. But I'm observing 32 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 4: it right, And there's a few things that are foreshadowing. 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 4: Like I my both my brothers at one time another 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 4: lived in Manhattan, and so I would visit New York frequently, Yeah, 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: a couple once or twice a year, and I would come, 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 4: I would land, I would have a great time. 37 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: I'd be thinking about Holy Cow. 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 4: I can't imagine what it'd be like to work in 39 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 4: New York City with just think about all the pipes 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 4: under the street. 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: It's crazy. And I would take a tour on the Hudson. 42 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 4: I would see one of the treatment plants is on 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 4: the Hudson up by Harlem, be like, wow, that's a 44 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 4: treatment plant. 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: It's huge. 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 4: And then I would get on a plane and I 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 4: would fly back to Seattle and go, oh my god, 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: I don't have any problems here. 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: This is easy. There's there's no comparison. 50 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: You know. 51 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 4: And in Seattle I did great and I plateaued at 52 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 4: the top of my game. 53 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: In the wastewater world. 54 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: There would you one of the Killiman Jarro of wastewater Treatments. 55 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah you. 56 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 3: Are, Yeah, the kill him and Jaro of waste Mount Everest. 57 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 4: Maybe because you know, I used to work in the pall, 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: so that's kind of where I got my appreciation for 59 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 4: the value of wastewater. In Peace Corps experience. Actually, children 60 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 4: don't make it to their fifth birthdays or their twelfth 61 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 4: birthdays often because of the amount of disease that's out there. 62 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 4: And that's you know, it makes me take my job 63 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 4: seriously because we do save lives every day people, you know, 64 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 4: controlling sanitation, controlling disease that comes from sanitation, that's not 65 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 4: handled properly is what we do and it's the fundamental 66 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: reason why we enjoy the quality of life we have. 67 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 4: Fact in point, British Medical Journal did a study in 68 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: two thousand and seven about They interviewed hundreds of doctors 69 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 4: what is the biggest medical breakthrough in the laste hundred 70 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 4: and fifty years? What came on top sanitation. It's responsible 71 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 4: for extending lives. It's the biggest reason why, really we 72 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 4: have the kind of quality of healthcare throughout the world, 73 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 4: and living in places where that didn't exist. Talking to 74 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 4: parents whose children died because of dysentery or other diseases 75 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: that come from lack of wastewater, you know, that's what 76 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: makes me passionate about this stuff. My goal in life 77 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: is that everyone should know what happens after they flush 78 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 4: the toilet. Yes, because it is a communal social responsibility, 79 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 4: environmental environmental, public health, and people don't want to think 80 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 4: about it. 81 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: They want it to go away and be gone. 82 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 4: And we have the luxury in this country for it 83 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 4: to be taken for granted, and it's because we do 84 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: such a great job. 85 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: So by and large, are the systems generally in principle 86 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: in terms of science and so for that engineering, are 87 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: they the same in all major cities where what happens 88 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: to water that goes down a sink, down, a shower, 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: a bathtub, a toilet, It all pretty much just managed 90 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: the same way. 91 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: There's there's a variety of technologies. I mean they're that's 92 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 3: a good one. 93 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: Uh. 94 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 4: Let me just talk about what happens from the beginning 95 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 4: to the end that might be. So let's say you 96 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 4: use your toilet. It goes down out of your house 97 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 4: and then into a local collection line, so there might 98 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 4: be one down your street, and that'll dump into a 99 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 4: larger collection system, which is a larger pipe you just 100 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 4: called it interceptor, and that eventually will take it to 101 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 4: a wastewater treatment plant. And New York City, for example, 102 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 4: we have fourteen wastewater treatment plants. We have ninety six 103 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: pumping station big. 104 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: So the pumping stations continue to force the material and 105 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: the liquid and everything whatever's down there down toward. 106 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: The train plant. So we at the tream plant. 107 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 4: Moving water is expensive and going by gravity is always cheaper. 108 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 4: So where there's a hill, we take advantage of the hill, 109 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: but at some lower points we always have to elevate 110 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 4: it and get it back to gravity, so we can 111 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 4: flow it to the treatment plants. Very expensive the pumping system. 112 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 4: So when it gets to the treatment plant, the first 113 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 4: step there is a screen. There are bar screens are 114 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: about half to three quarter inch spacing, and they collect 115 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 4: trash things that people should not be flushing on the 116 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 4: toilet like wipes, baby wipes, facial wipes, dental floss. 117 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 3: All that stuff gets it gets stuck, get stuck. 118 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 4: And if it weren't trapped there, it's actually on the way. 119 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 4: It messes up a lot of the pumping systems because 120 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 4: we have so much of this material, So we take 121 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: it out there. We spend about seven million dollars a 122 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 4: year just in land filling the trash to people flush. 123 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: And then it goes to some kind of grit removal 124 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 4: to move remove like sand and chunks of rock, and 125 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 4: then to a primary sedimentation basin that allow solids, in 126 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: organic solids for the most part that are suspended to 127 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 4: settle onto the bottom. And it also has skimmers on 128 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 4: the top that takes grease off the top. So that 129 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 4: goes to a solid treatment system. And then the next step, 130 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 4: and this is the fascinating world of biology. The next 131 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 4: step we use a community of bacteria that actually digests 132 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 4: the suspended organic material and clean the water. 133 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: Via that method, you're bringing things in that it will consume. 134 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 4: It is food, right, And from there it goes to 135 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 4: another settling tank where we settle out the biomass that 136 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 4: just consumed all this organic matter. But the water that 137 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: comes out of the final settling tank gets disinfection basically 138 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 4: household bleached to take any particular pathogens out, and that 139 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: gets either discharged to receiving water or in some cases 140 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 4: in some cities they're able to polish a little bit 141 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: more easy for irrigation purposes, especially in the arid Southwest. 142 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 1: And you said, what happens to it here? 143 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 3: What happens to here? 144 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 4: It gets discharged deeply into the surrounding water bodies after 145 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 4: getting cleaned up. You might have noticed. And I'm taking 146 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 4: credit for this, and all the people who work in 147 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 4: the Bureau of Wastewater Treatment can eighteen hundred people. We 148 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 4: take credit for the whales coming back because because of 149 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 4: the work that they do twenty four to seven and 150 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 4: the experience and skill those whales have been able to 151 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 4: come back into as. 152 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: Ort of is discharged deep into the neighboring waters, it's 153 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: that clean, very clean. And what about the solids? Where 154 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: were human waste solids? Where does that salid? 155 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 4: So the solids are basically the bacteria that's settled out 156 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 4: as well as the solids we collected in the primary basins, 157 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 4: and that gets thickened and then it goes to a 158 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 4: anaerobic treatment process. 159 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: So if you're in Brooklyn and you. 160 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 4: See those big eggs shaped metal eggs, those are actually 161 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 4: digesters and those are heated to ninety eight degrees and 162 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: within that we're using an anaerobic bacteria, so bacteria that 163 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: live without oxygen, and they'll digest those solids even more. 164 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 3: And then that is a valuable fertilizer product. So it's 165 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 3: a very viable product. 166 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: So who sells it? 167 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: It's called bioslids. 168 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: Now in New York's biosolize. Yes, I'm thinking of like 169 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: a conveyor belt, like a giant brownie is coming off there. 170 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: Where does it go? 171 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: Every day? 172 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 4: About fourteen hundred wet tons we create of biosolids. Now, 173 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: it's no only great because it's a great resource that 174 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 4: we don't want to waste, but it returns carbon to 175 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 4: the soil and you actually can run a wastewater treatment 176 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 4: plant at carbon neutral because of all the carbon benefit, 177 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 4: we have the sequestration benefit from that bioslids product. 178 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: Now, another thing I think that occurs to me is 179 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: that there's auto mechanics, and there's places where work is 180 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: being done and chemicals of every fashion are being used 181 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: to clean parts and cleaning solvents and motor oil just 182 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: to pick one industry. I'm not even talking about, you know, 183 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: PCBs up the Hudson from ge and the fifty, that 184 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing going into the Hudson River. I'm talking 185 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: about right here in New York in restaurants. Every time 186 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: somebody washes their hair, and every time somebody dyes their 187 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: hair in a beauty salon. All this stuff is going 188 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: down the drain. What's the process that removes all those chemicals? 189 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 4: So some of those chemicals break down very easily. They're 190 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 4: biodegraded quickly within the plant. They respond to the biological 191 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: conditions within the wastewater plant, and you won't find traces 192 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 4: of it in the effluent. Some of them break down 193 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 4: into different types of chemicals, pharmaceuticals, right, you'll get you know, 194 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 4: people have chemotherapy. You know that waste from their bodies 195 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 4: might even end up in the treatm plant system, and 196 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 4: you can't get all that no, and so there are microcontaminants. 197 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 4: So there is some studies about potentially ecological impacts from 198 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 4: some of those micro pollutants. We don't see that in 199 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 4: the scale of New York City. The water bodies here 200 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 4: are well flushing. If a wastewater chili charging to a 201 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 4: small lake, for example, you're going to have much stricter 202 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 4: standards on that end. 203 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,599 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I'm a strong environmentalist. 204 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 4: I have been my entire life since third grade, as 205 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 4: a matter of fact, and I care about trying to 206 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 4: do the best we can by nature and get us 207 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 4: back to nature the best we can. We live in 208 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: a world that's got plastics and papers and also so 209 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 4: many things. We're really we're really doing a fantastic job 210 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: and eliminating the risk to the environment into health. And 211 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: as monitoring and chemistry gets better, we can get down 212 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 4: to lower and lower concentrations and we're going to learn 213 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 4: a lot more about ways that we can make it better. 214 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: But today we're just miles ahead of where we've been. 215 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: And when I'm. 216 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: Safe to say that it's been about environmentalism for you, Yeah, 217 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: and an environmental environmental work. 218 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 4: I became an environmentalist in third grade and I'm still environmentalist. 219 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 4: It kills me now that some environmental groups think I'm 220 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 4: a polluter. I'm a very practical environmentalist. We've we're spending 221 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 4: public money. We've got to be good to the dollar 222 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 4: and make sure that we're doing the most effective way. 223 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 4: There's not an unlimited amount of money. 224 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: What would you say, what's the Mercedes Benz, what's the 225 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: Rolls Royce of? For lack of a better way of 226 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: putting of wastewater management around the world? Who has a 227 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: Mercedes over us? 228 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: So let me Wastewater treatment, like many things, is an evolution, right. 229 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 4: The Cadillac version depends on the situation you're in now. 230 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 4: Back when everybody were farmers and people did not live 231 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 4: in concentrated cities, it didn't matter that people pooped in 232 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 4: the field. Use pitler trenes, maybe, no big deal. As 233 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 4: we started to get closer together, we started to evolve 234 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 4: techniques for dealing with they well, they had collection systems, 235 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 4: and prior to the nineteen thirties in New York City 236 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 4: and prior to probably the nineteen fifties, and even the 237 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 4: nineteen seventies and the rest of the world. The whole 238 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 4: driver towards wastewater treatment was to get it from people. 239 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,599 Speaker 4: So they put a pipe in the ground and you 240 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 4: got it to the nearest water body, and that was 241 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 4: totally fine. But when the cities got bigger and people 242 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 4: were more concentrated, we said, look, we got to start 243 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: training it. First treatment plants in New York City were 244 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 4: Coney Island, Jamaica Bay, places where people were record from 245 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 4: at the beach right, And that's what drove those early 246 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 4: early investments around the turn of the last century and 247 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 4: the very first treatment plants, and that was just primary 248 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 4: treatment systems. After more and more people started using treatment 249 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 4: or using wastewater and conglomerting in large groups, the Federal 250 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 4: EPA said nineteen seventy two, everyone's going to do the 251 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 4: secondary treatment part, which is that biological system. 252 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: And so that's now the standard to United States. 253 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 4: Some places are treating to the extent where they can 254 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 4: drink it directly. And then is Singapore, and they what 255 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 4: they do is they do everything it just described, add 256 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 4: additional filtration and then a reverse osmosis, which is very 257 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 4: very fine filtration to create drinkable water. The city has 258 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 4: strict difficult a lot of difficulties, strict limitations on the 259 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 4: amount of water that can come to their city freshwater, 260 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 4: so they create water. 261 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you started your education in nineteen seventy nine. 262 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Not a lot of women were doing this kind of work, 263 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: were they. 264 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 4: I think I was like the first quote wave of 265 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 4: women in engineering, which the wave has never grown. 266 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: I think it's kind of fat. 267 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: You know. 268 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 4: My high school advisor, who was advising about college, told 269 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 4: me I can't be an engineer because that was a 270 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 4: man's job. Flat out told me that. And my response was, 271 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 4: I'm not going to listen to you. If you told 272 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 4: that to one hundred girls, there might be eighty of 273 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 4: them who said, oh, okay, no, you know what I'm saying, 274 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 4: and that you know. 275 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: That's too bad. 276 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: You went to college. 277 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 4: I went to college, my undergraduate Northwestern University, got a 278 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 4: chemical engineering degree back in nineteen eighty three. You're in 279 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 4: the technology building, the engineering building. You can't find a 280 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 4: woman's bathroom. You got to go to where the secretaries. 281 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: That you know it was. It was frustrating. 282 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 4: You know, the forms all started out mister period than blank. 283 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 4: It wasn't like you get to choose. I'm like, come on, 284 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: you can update this stuff. They're like, oh, we don't 285 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 4: want to waste paper. I don't care, you know, so 286 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 4: stuff like that. It wold and some of the older 287 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 4: professors are just their minds were blown. But you know, 288 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 4: I just had the calling and I what I did, 289 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 4: I think was imprinted in third grade. 290 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 3: To be honest, what was it about it. 291 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: That intrigued you? Just the problem solving them? 292 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 4: No, in third grade, I had a student teacher, you know, 293 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 4: probably I was probably eight, so this person was twenty 294 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 4: twenty two, taught us about environmental science. 295 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: Changed my life that day forward. 296 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 4: I said, I want to learn this, I want to 297 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 4: know about I want to fight polluters. I want to 298 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 4: make the world a clean, healthy place. That commercial with 299 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 4: the people throwing trash on the ground and there's a 300 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 4: Native American person standing here. 301 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: I mean, that was what I was all about. 302 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: Well, that's the difference in New York to me now. 303 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean I got my first home here in nineteen 304 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: seventy nine, and in the years that I've lived in 305 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: New York, New York is a lot dirtier, and New 306 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: Yorkers are a lot dirtier. How does New York strike 307 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: you when you got here and you saw the amount 308 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: of stuff going into those screens compared to Seattle. 309 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 4: I've noticed things like there's a trash can sitting on 310 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 4: the corner. Somebody walks by throws their plastic bottle on 311 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 4: the street. I don't get that. I do notice too. 312 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 4: I have a dog. I pick up my dog poop. 313 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: I put it in a plastic A lot of people 314 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 4: don't do that, right. 315 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I want to do a video for you. I want 316 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: to do a video for the Department of Sanitation Wastewater Management. 317 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: Alec wants you to know when you flush the toilet, 318 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: let's keep the diapers, coloss of your read and the condoms. 319 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: Let's okay, let's be an equal opportunity. Fingerpoint to hear. 320 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: It's the tampoons in the cons. 321 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 3: They don't break down. 322 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 4: Poop, pee, puke, toilet paper, four piece that's all we 323 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 4: want to see. 324 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: What's hi. I'm Alec Baldwin here with the four reminding 325 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: you of the four p poop, pee, puke and paper. 326 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 4: I think the more people know what happens after they flush, 327 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 4: the more people are gonna respect what they put down 328 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 4: their toilet and the more the less they're gonna want 329 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 4: to litter. And that's why I really appreciate talking with you, 330 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 4: and I'm so glad you have this interest. It's just 331 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 4: over the top interesting. You're taking pool water and making 332 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 4: it clean. 333 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: New York City's Deputy Commissioner for Wastewater Management, Pam Alardo, 334 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: a woman so passionate about her job that we had 335 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: to interrupt the interview. 336 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 3: I'm hitting the table. 337 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: Don't mash your hands in the table. I think it 338 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: even says here that you are from an Italian Catholic 339 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: factory town. Are you an Italian Catholic? Yes, absolutely right, Well, 340 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: then sub pounding on the table and the Italian Catholics too, 341 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: you can help it. Waste management, with all its implications 342 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: for our health and the health of the planet, is 343 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: still about politics. Like everything else. We can't fix the 344 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: problem if we don't elect leaders who devote their resources 345 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: and enforce the rules. And nobody, nobody was better at 346 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: gaming that system and getting us to vote his way 347 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: than Ed Rollins, Ronald Reagan's brilliant and controversial campaign manager. 348 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: When Democrats go out and say I want you to 349 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: turn out your churches, your bus drivers all the rest 350 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: of it. We go out and say, here's the payday 351 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: you would normally get. Just you know, don't turn your 352 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: vote out. I know the game. I know how to 353 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: make it work. And part of the reason I know 354 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: the game is I was trained as a Democrat. More 355 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: from Ed Rollins at Here's Thething dot org after the Break. 356 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: New York City's original recyclings are former Deputy Commissioner for 357 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: Sustainability and Recycling Ron Gonan. By'm Alec Baldwin and you 358 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: were listening to Here's the Thing. Ron Gonan is a 359 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: capitalist even a hippie could love. In two thousand and four, 360 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: he founded a recycling startup that grewed be worth hundreds 361 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. Now he runs a group of 362 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: investment funds dedicated to new ideas in recycling. In between 363 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: those two jobs, he was hand picked by Mayor Bloomberg 364 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: to be the city's first recycling czar. But when he 365 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: walked into the studio, he didn't look like someone who 366 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: could have had all that on his resume. You're so young, 367 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean, how old were you? Ten years old and 368 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: work for the Bloomberg administration. 369 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 5: I joined the administration around was thirty seven. I'm about 370 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 5: to turn forty three. 371 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: Okay, But Gonan got a very early start. As a kid, 372 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: he cleaned houses and babysit to help his mom out 373 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: with the bills. One day, he ended up in the 374 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: house of one of the pioneers of the sustainability movement, 375 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: architect Paul Mocked. 376 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 5: I met Paul Mocked when I was in seventh grade. 377 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 5: Probably the most important thing that happened to me in 378 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 5: my will tell me about this. I grew up with 379 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 5: a single mom, lower middle class neighborhood in Philly, got 380 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 5: a sports scholarship, financial light opportunity to go to a 381 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 5: great private school called Germantown Academy. But needed to get 382 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: a job because I needed to earn someone for my tuition, 383 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 5: and started working for Paul and his wife. 384 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: This is the late eighties. 385 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 5: Early nineties, and I was doing everything from babysitting to housework. 386 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 5: But he would talk to me about what he was 387 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 5: doing over dinner. He gave me a book called Cradle 388 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 5: to Cradle, the first book around circular economy. He would 389 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 5: talk to me about these issues. I was really I 390 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 5: was blessed to be around someone like that. So oftentimes 391 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 5: people will come to me and say how do you 392 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 5: start these ventures and say, I've been thinking about this 393 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 5: stuff for twenty twenty five years. 394 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: And the first recycling company was what. 395 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 5: A friend from high school approached me with a concept 396 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: of could we pay people for recycling? And that's what 397 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 5: I ultimately became Recycle Bank. I ended up building the 398 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 5: business model and developing the software for my first recycling company. 399 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm a recycling I'm not going to say nut but 400 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: I take it very seriously. And even if recycling it's 401 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: just an exercise, people want to believe they can participate 402 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: to make things better. I'm like, don't discourage that, but 403 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: is it just an exercise or it's not. 404 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 5: As far as you're concerned, it's absolutely not just an exercise. 405 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 5: Recycling has tremendous environmental value in terms of resource protection. 406 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 5: It also has tremendous economic value to you as a taxpayer, 407 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 5: and that's part of the message that oftentimes doesn't get out. 408 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 5: So I appreciate that you have great spirit behind recycling. 409 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 5: You should keep that, but also feel good about the 410 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 5: fact that you're doing something really important for the environment 411 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 5: and something really important for your city. 412 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: When those bags of recyclables hit the street, where do 413 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: they go? 414 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 5: All of the metal, plastic, and glass goes to a 415 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 5: recycling facility in Brooklyn called SIMS Metal Management. They actually 416 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 5: have a phenomenal education program there, so I highly recommend 417 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 5: folks to go to see the SIMS facility. And they 418 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 5: also get fifty percent of the paper. The other fifty 419 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 5: percent of the paper goes to Pratt Recycling out in 420 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 5: Staten Island, and that paper then goes over to a 421 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 5: mill right next door that Pratt owns and has turned 422 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 5: into pizza boxes that then get resold right back into 423 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 5: the New York City economy. 424 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: The box that it comes in was your New York Times. 425 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: Could be was you were a New Yorker magazine a 426 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: couple a couple months ago, could be that's amazing. 427 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 5: Could BET's let's break it down to brass economics. If 428 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 5: you threw that paper in the garbage, the city would 429 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 5: be paying one hundred dollars a ton to export it 430 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 5: to a landfill. If you put it in your recycling bin, 431 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 5: the city will get paid a minimum of ten dollars 432 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 5: a ton, So there's one hundred and ten dollars swing there. 433 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 5: Then it will go over to a New York City 434 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 5: business and employees. People in New York City turn it 435 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 5: into a pizza box. 436 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: What's the stuff the city collects and what don't they collect? 437 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest misconceptions. 438 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 5: So for recycling, the city collects dry paper and cardboard, 439 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 5: aluminum and metal, all glass, an all rigid plastic like 440 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 5: a Fiji bottle, exactly, So any plastic that's rigid goes 441 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 5: into the city's recycling program. A plastic a plastic that's 442 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 5: flexible like a bag or plastic wrapping, does not. 443 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: You mean, so like a cup from Starbucks can go 444 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: in there. 445 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 2: A paper cup from Starbucks can go in there. 446 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: There's not a plastic cup. 447 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 2: No, a plastic cup can because a plastic cups has. 448 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: Rigidity too, correct, So any formed plastic like cups so forth, 449 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: the city will take that exactly well, and the city 450 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: exempts those businesses from doing their recycling themselves. Well, Starbucks 451 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: is not obligated to recycle. 452 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 5: So the city currently collects all residential recycling, so they 453 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 5: collect from every home in the city, not the businesses. 454 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: Not the businesses. 455 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 5: The businesses are responsible to contract for their own waste 456 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 5: and recycling collection independently. 457 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: Does Starbucks recycle. 458 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 5: They that's a so so right, So they're not obligated to. 459 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 5: They technically are obligated. What the city is working on 460 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 5: is a better enforcement system to make sure that everyone 461 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 5: actually is recycling. One of the challenges in New York 462 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 5: City sometimes you have so many businesses, the enforcement cost 463 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 5: of checking on every business is very expensive. 464 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 2: Starbucks could be doing a better job. 465 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: We're the recycling bins on the street, I don't see 466 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: very I've seen some of them by Washington Square Park. 467 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 5: Work live, especially in Manhattan. If you just look around, 468 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 5: you'll see there the metallic looking bins with a green 469 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 5: top and a blue top, and the blue top is 470 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 5: for your metal, glass and plastic, and the green top 471 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 5: is for your paper. 472 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: Talk to me about a timeline to your knowledge about 473 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: this movement over the last fifty years or forty years, 474 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: I mean, before you got started with Bloomberg, What was recycling? 475 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: What was the dawn of recycling in this country? And 476 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: is there somebody who's the mother or father of that 477 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: to your knowledge? 478 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: Sure, it's a good question. 479 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 5: So up until the early nineteen hundreds, Americans didn't waste 480 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 5: things because there wasn't that much packaging recycling really became 481 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 5: necessary when a lot of packaging came along. Now, up 482 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 5: until the nineteen thirties and forties, in New York City, 483 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 5: Department of Sanitation legally collected everything, including all of our 484 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 5: bodily waste and whatever waste there was, and just dumped 485 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 5: it in the East River. At the Department Sanitation, we 486 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 5: literally have pictures of our trucks lined up on the 487 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 5: East River dumping garbage, dumping garbage in there. Then you 488 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 5: started seeing more and more consumption come along and more 489 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 5: and more packaging. With World War Two, however, there was 490 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 5: such a huge need for raw resources that America did 491 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 5: an amazing job recycling up until and during. 492 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: This part of the war, effort exactly waste exactly. 493 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 5: Post World War Two, you actually saw a major divergence 494 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 5: between what was what York was doing where they were 495 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 5: very poor in the fifties, sixties and seventies, They were 496 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 5: rebuilding their economies and countries and they had very little land, 497 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 5: so recycling was critical to their economy to what you 498 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 5: saw in America in the fifties and sixties and seventies, 499 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 5: which is people moved out to the suburbs, there was 500 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 5: no collection infrastructure, the concept of more and more and 501 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 5: more as a status symbol became very important to people, 502 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 5: and recycling took a back seat. And then you saw 503 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 5: an emergence of it again in the nineteen eighties and 504 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 5: nineties and through today. 505 00:24:46,200 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: We're taking a break. Stay with us now. When you 506 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: started with Bloomberg, which was in twenty twelve, I believe 507 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: he had been in office for how long by then 508 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: he'd been nine years? He was there already there for 509 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: quite a while. And give some insight into what made 510 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: him want to hire a recycling czar, What did he 511 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: see and what pressures you think were brought on him 512 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: to take this to another level. 513 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 5: He had a deputy mayor named Cass Holloway, who, when 514 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 5: he came in too be deputy mayor, looked around and said, 515 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 5: New York City taxpayer spent four hundred million dollars a 516 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 5: year exporting waste to out of state landfills. We have 517 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 5: recycling companies in New York City that will pay the 518 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 5: city for that material. What is going on here? I 519 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 5: want to get someone in here who can fix this system. 520 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: Turn it into a business exactly. 521 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: And that's what I was brought in to do. 522 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: Why do you think Bloomberg chose you. 523 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 5: People associate me with being very left progressive but had 524 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 5: some successes as an entrepreneur, and the waste guys were 525 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 5: comfortable with me. So I sort of fit everybody's everybody's criteria. 526 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: And how did you start? 527 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 5: Infrastructure and communication? So in infrastructure, we started rolling out 528 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 5: containers all over the streets to make sure that there's 529 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 5: infrastructure collect material. But people would also see recycling bins. 530 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 5: We made sure that all rigid plastics could be accepted, 531 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 5: so people didn't have to worry about can I put 532 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 5: this in? Connect put that in? That was the first 533 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 5: thing we did. The next thing we did was start 534 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 5: focusing on food waste and organics, because food waste represents 535 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 5: about forty percent of what we landfill, and we started 536 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 5: rolling out a curbside organics program. There's about two hundred 537 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 5: and fifty thousand homes in New York City today that 538 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 5: get their food waste collected separately. The city will be 539 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 5: citywide with the program within two years, and all New 540 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 5: York City public schools now separate out their food waste. 541 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Is it safe to say, therefore, that you would discourage 542 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: people from putting their compostables in their organics into the 543 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: garbage disposal. 544 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 5: That's not bad. That's actually much much better than putting 545 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 5: in the garbage. But there's something even better that we 546 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 5: could be doing, which is collecting the food waste separately 547 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 5: and turning it into clean natural gas locally, which the 548 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 5: city started doing on the Bloomberg is now expanding. 549 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: Describe how that happened. You take that, you collect that 550 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: bround bin and it goes where. 551 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 5: There's a process called anaerobic digestion. Anaerobic digestion converts food 552 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 5: waste into gas. If MIMX goes into yours, where there's 553 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 5: one anaerobic digester right now in the city, which is 554 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 5: at the wastewater treatment facility out in Green Point, all 555 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,239 Speaker 5: the food waste goes there and it gets put through 556 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 5: the anaerobic digester. 557 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: The gas is generated and right. 558 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 5: Now it's pumped right into the grid. Ten twenty years 559 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 5: from now, people are going to look back and scratch 560 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 5: their head and say, let me get this straight. New 561 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 5: York City was spending two hundred million dollars a year 562 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 5: to pay to export food waste to out of state landfills. 563 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 5: That can't be possible because what we do with it 564 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 5: today is we use it to generate fuel for our 565 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 5: city vehicles and gas for our homes. 566 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: That's what they do. What were people thinking, is that 567 00:27:59,600 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: where they do? 568 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, today it's generating gas that's going into the grid. 569 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 5: I'll give you a forecast. Ten years from now, New 570 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 5: York City will be picking up food wasts, driving it 571 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 5: to the anaerobic digester, dumping it going ten feet away, 572 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 5: and refilling their gas tank from the gas that was 573 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 5: generating from the food waste that they dropped off the 574 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 5: day before. 575 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: You think it'll become a break even proposition or better 576 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: or you always be losing money on that. 577 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 5: Probably you'll always be making The city will be making 578 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 5: hundreds of millions of dollars off of it, because right 579 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 5: now the city is spending two hundred million dollars a 580 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 5: year to export. 581 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: It to land stuff just doing the organics exactly. 582 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 5: So if you don't make any money on the process, 583 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 5: you don't make any money on the sale of the gas, 584 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 5: you've saved yourself two hundred million dollars. 585 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: Now, when you have ten thousand restaurants or whatever it is, 586 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: you're always hearing different figures twelve thousand and fifteen thousand. 587 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: I don't even know anymore. What do you need to 588 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: do to get them to comply? How do you do it? 589 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: Is it a law you make? I'm sure they're going 590 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: to fight like hell against that, aren't that? There's no 591 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: law now that for there's a law that forced them 592 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: to separate their organics. 593 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 5: That the Bloomberg administration passed legislation that the Blas administration 594 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 5: is now continuing that by certain years, all food service 595 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 5: generators in New York City, by law, are banned from 596 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 5: sending that food waste to landfill. This year it came 597 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 5: into practice with all large food service generators that the stadiums, 598 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 5: that's the universities, that's the large kitchens. The great news 599 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 5: is there are some restaurants in New York City that 600 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 5: recognize that they can run their business more efficiently if 601 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 5: they can send their food waste to an anaerobic digestor 602 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 5: rather than paying to send it to landfill. And we 603 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 5: had some great, great restaurant owners or early adopters who said, hey, 604 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 5: we want to do this, Prademanje. You will see a 605 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 5: compost bin right in every single process. 606 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: So has it been It's been successful. It's been successful. 607 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: What do you think we're not doing that. We should 608 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: do what's the next level for recycling. 609 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 5: Great news about recycling is the money is there because 610 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 5: we're already spending it sticking the stuff in a hole. 611 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 5: So there's a lot of opportunity the Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania, 612 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 5: South Carolina, and Ohio. But there's a senator, Senator Casey 613 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 5: in Pennsylvania that he's trying desperately to get legislation passed 614 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 5: to enable Pennsylvania to stop the importation of garbage. He 615 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 5: runs into you can't legislate against interstate commerce. But New 616 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 5: York City's got a big problem if other states say 617 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 5: we don't want your trucks, we don't. 618 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 2: Want your garbage. 619 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: Does the city have a plan for that? 620 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 5: No, the only plan for that is recycle. Right, eighty 621 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 5: percent of what's in the New York City waste stream 622 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 5: can be recycled. Anybody who talks about recycling doesn't work. 623 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 5: We shouldn't be recycling. They're living in an alternate universe. 624 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: So why are they saying that? You think obviously there's 625 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: a business interest involved. What business interests are they representing? 626 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 2: What they say that, there's a few interests. 627 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 5: There's the landfill business, interest, Right, there's the interest of 628 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 5: the companies that export this out of the city, and 629 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 5: then you've got some political interests of folks that like 630 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 5: to pupoo anything to do with the environment. But they're 631 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 5: all living in an alternate universe because if you don't 632 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 5: recycle where you plan and to put the stuff. 633 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: How has Deblasio done in terms of upholding this process 634 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: that Bloomberg installed. 635 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 5: He's done a good job that most of the credit 636 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 5: goes to the sanitation commissioner, Commissioner Garcia. She was the 637 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 5: chief operating officer of Deep under Bloomberg, and Deblasio, to 638 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 5: his credit, brought her over to become the sanitation commissioner, 639 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 5: and she's done a fantastic job continuing the programs or 640 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 5: developed on the bloomberginistration and implementing her own programs. 641 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: Someone told me that dumpster divers as people call them, 642 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: people who are going into the waste stream and taking 643 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: out recyclables for their own use to claim the money, 644 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: is hurting the city's program. Correct. Correct, The city's relying 645 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: on that stuff being available to them to monetize this 646 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: whole thing. 647 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 2: Correct. 648 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 5: That's one of the cure things about people saying that 649 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 5: recycling doesn't work. In fact, the city Sanitation department has 650 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 5: fifty sanitation police scouring the city trying to stop people 651 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 5: from you stealing recycles. 652 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: People are opening garbage bags in front of my apartment 653 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: on those nights that stuffs put up there Monday night 654 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. 655 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 5: One caveat to that is that it's actually not waste 656 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 5: pickers anymore or homeless people going around. That's what it 657 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 5: still appears to be, but in fact it's organized. So 658 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 5: if you were to follow those guys for a couple 659 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 5: of blocks, you'll see that they end up at a 660 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 5: very large truck with. 661 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: About there had a union, they got a union. 662 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 5: Now they're coming in from Jersey, they're coming in from Westchester, 663 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 5: and they fan people out. They go cut bags, take 664 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 5: the material, put it in their trucks, and they drive 665 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 5: it out of the city and sell it. And that's 666 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 5: a major problem for the City of New York for 667 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 5: two reasons. One is that's revenue that's supposed. 668 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: To go to the city. 669 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: Number one relying on that, yeah. 670 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 5: Number two is it impacts our ability to do reporting 671 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 5: and understand how successful the program is because the numbers 672 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 5: end up going down and then people will say, oh, see, 673 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 5: recycling's not working in Park Slope or the Upper west Side. 674 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 5: The numbers are low. It's like, no, no, actually it's 675 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 5: working incredibly well. 676 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: Someone's stealing all the procts know to go there right now? 677 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: Do you believe if they if everything went went I mean, 678 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I know this is a fantasy, but let's 679 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: play it out anyway, and that is that restaurants and 680 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: delis markets, Starbucks type of takeout places and everything where 681 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: there's a big, big flow of recyclable heart plastics and 682 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: so forth like that. Let's say they all participated in 683 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: the program better and everybody was more conscientious and people 684 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: recycled properly, and we didn't have the bad commingling, and 685 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: let's say everything got better. Could the city handle that flow? 686 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 5: The city could absolutely handle that flow. Under the Bloomberg administration, 687 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 5: a lot of money was invested in the infrastructure around recycling. 688 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 5: All that being said, the most important thing today is 689 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 5: what you're referring to, which is people need to get 690 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 5: the message that when you throw paper, metal, gloss and 691 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 5: plastic in the garbage, which that costs the city money. 692 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 5: And I'm not interested in subsidizing your laziness. 693 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: You you don't want to put it in the. 694 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 5: Recycling but no problem, but you got to You got 695 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 5: to pay the tab Number one. Number two is if 696 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 5: you see somebody just throw something on the street, you got. 697 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: To say something. Uh. 698 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 5: And that's that's a really critical part of actually making 699 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 5: this better is there's a lot of more money that 700 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 5: needs to be spent, there's a lot of innovation that 701 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 5: needs to come into place, but the messaging also needs 702 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 5: to change, and the expectation of people needs to change. 703 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: Give me an example of some city around the world 704 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: where how they're handling their recyclables is commendable. 705 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 5: Almost any German or Scandinavian city, And what are they 706 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 5: doing that we're not doing? 707 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 2: Everybody recycles. 708 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 5: I was meeting with a government official in the Netherlands 709 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 5: and I said to him, how much do you find 710 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 5: somebody when they put something in the recycling bin that 711 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 5: shouldn't be put in there? They put something in the 712 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 5: garbage that's recyclable, so we have no fines, So well, 713 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 5: what do you do when they don't do it correctly? 714 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't they do it correctly? 715 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 5: And that's how culturally different we are, is there to 716 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 5: your point? There's that expectation around civics that if you've 717 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 5: been asked to do something for the betterment of your 718 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 5: community society, you do it. So if you look at 719 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 5: communities in Scandinavia, they're doing a great job. In the 720 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 5: United States, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco doing a pretty good job. 721 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 5: New York City and a lot of neighborhoods doing a 722 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 5: great job actually, and a lot of neighborhoods in New 723 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 5: York City. 724 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: What's one thing we're doing, just pick one for the 725 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: time being. What's one thing we're doing here across the 726 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: country that you'd love to see us stop? First stop doing. 727 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 5: What allowing companies to manufacture products or packaging that is 728 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 5: not recycled, for example, styrofoam good call. Part of the 729 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 5: communication that needs to come out around this is those 730 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 5: styrophone beads are terrible for the environment. You know what 731 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 5: else are teleb before you? As a tax bank, Why 732 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 5: can't we ask all that? New York City we did 733 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 5: that under the Bloomberg administration. The industry sued, the city countersued. 734 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 5: But the city has been trying for a really long 735 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 5: time to ban. 736 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: Styrifise cities at garverrit of plastic Bags. 737 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 5: Gyriodp plast Bags, And my point of all this has 738 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 5: always been it's absolutely bad for the environment, but we 739 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 5: need to make sure that people clearly understand the economic argument. 740 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 5: Let's take blocks and bags for an example. New York 741 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 5: City this year will spend twelve million dollars of tax 742 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 5: payer money landfilling plastic bags. 743 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: So if you're the plastic they can't be recycled, can't 744 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: be recycled. 745 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 5: They're trying to recycle only if they're absolutely clean and priesteam. 746 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: You can't steam clean them, you can't put them through 747 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: the hot. 748 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 2: Too expensive to expensive. 749 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 5: But the point that should be made to the plastic 750 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 5: bag industry is, hey, we don't need to ban these. 751 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 5: You can design, manufacture, sell whatever you want, but if 752 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 5: it's not recyclable, we're not interested in picking up the 753 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 5: cost of senate to a landfill. And we also need 754 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 5: to recognize some of the companies like a Patagony and 755 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 5: some of the other companies out there that have done 756 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 5: a phenomenal job incorporating recycled material into their products and packaging, 757 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 5: and make sure we reward and recognize that. 758 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: So close loop partners, you're a fund that you're helping 759 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: to manage. Are they looking for technology to invest in 760 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,959 Speaker 1: to kind of replace styrofoam? Are you looking for people 761 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: that are going to make the next level of packaging? 762 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 5: All the time, we scour the country and scour the 763 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 5: world for innovative new materials, innovative technologies. We just invested 764 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 5: in a company called amp Robotics. It's the first artificial 765 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 5: intelligence and robotics company and the recycling industry, We've invested 766 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 5: in a lot of super innovative technologies as well as 767 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 5: just large facilities to recycle material. So we're always looking 768 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 5: for innovation and investments. 769 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: Well, I want to wish you the best of luck 770 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: with that, because that's something that everybody's counting on. I mean, 771 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: they really are. I just feel like so a lot 772 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: of people are sitting home thinking what can I do? 773 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: What can I do? When we want to say to people, 774 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: just recycle aggressively, don't give up, keep keep doing that, 775 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: do it properly. Yes, and hopefully over the next few years, 776 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: people like you and the funds you're working with will 777 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: replace styrol and it will and replace plastic bags with 778 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: things that are fully biodegradable and quicks and we will 779 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: get to a place where we can start to reverse 780 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: some of the damage, which we are getting very close 781 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: to the point where we might not be able to 782 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: reverse that. So I'm hoping we will have you come 783 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: on the show in a couple of years and you'll 784 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: have some fresh and good news for us. 785 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:20,959 Speaker 2: That would be great. 786 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 5: You want to get into business with me, If you 787 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 5: want to get into the recycling business, it would be 788 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 5: great to have you. 789 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll leave it to the professionals, but I'm glad there 790 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,919 Speaker 1: are people like Ron and Pam Alardo in New York 791 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: City making a difference one flush and bottle at a time. 792 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you 793 00:38:43,480 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: by iHeart Radio.