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Speaker 1: Support without capital is counterfeit. It's not support, it's lip service.

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Speaker 2: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 2: is there are No Girls.

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Speaker 3: On the Internet.

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Speaker 2: This is the story of a breakup, not between two people,

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Speaker 2: but between.

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Speaker 4: Me and my favorite big box retailer, Target, and I'm

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Speaker 4: not the only one.

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Speaker 2: After George Floyd's murder back in twenty twenty, Target, headquartered

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis where his death took place, was one of

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Speaker 2: many companies that made big public commitments to racial equity.

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Speaker 2: They promised to support black communities, fun black creators, and

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Speaker 2: put black owned brands on their shelves. But in early

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, that all changed. Target quietly announced it

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Speaker 2: was walking back its DEI efforts, and for a lot

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Speaker 2: of us, that was a deal breaker. We started boycotting

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Speaker 2: because it felt like a betrayal. But here's the part

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Speaker 2: we didn't see. In the middle of that boycott.

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Speaker 5: For people like Kiara, my name is kiar Imani and

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Speaker 5: you can call me Kiara. My friends call me Kiki.

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Speaker 2: Black creators and entrepreneurs like Kiara had finally gotten a

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Speaker 2: chance to be on the shelves at Target, A big opportunity, right,

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Speaker 2: Not quite. In today's episode, you're going to hear help

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Speaker 2: Black creators who partnered with Target didn't just get screwed

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Speaker 2: by the store.

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Speaker 4: They got low key scammed. But first back to Kiara,

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Speaker 4: it was against the backdrop of the protest of twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty that Kiara Amani, attorney and author of the book

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Speaker 4: Therapy Isn't Just for White People, got the idea for

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Speaker 4: like you cards.

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Speaker 1: It really was birthed out of a place of having

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Speaker 1: a lot of political turmoil in twenty twenty. There was

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Speaker 1: a depth of George Floyd. We were all at home.

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Speaker 1: People were having a hard time communicating and talking to

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Speaker 1: one another. One of the things that I found, very

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Speaker 1: specifically was that people would make a lot of assumptions

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Speaker 1: about what you believed, how you saw the world, based

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Speaker 1: on who you were, your color, your gender, all these things.

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Speaker 1: And I found obviously people were frustrated because people have

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Speaker 1: differing opinions, and I know that that can be really stressful,

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Speaker 1: But what I really saw was people being frustrated because

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Speaker 1: they felt misunderstood, like they don't see me, they don't

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Speaker 1: hear me, they don't understand why I'm so angry. They

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Speaker 1: don't understand why I'm so triggered. So the idea was

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Speaker 1: to create a card game that could help people feel seen, heard, understood.

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Speaker 2: Like a lot of companies, in twenty twenty, it seemed

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Speaker 2: like Target was listening. That year, they launched the REACH

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Speaker 2: Initiative Racial Equity Action and Change, promising to increase black representation,

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Speaker 2: support black team members, guests, and communities, and even advocate

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Speaker 2: on racial policy. Then in twenty twenty one, they made

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Speaker 2: a bigger commitment to spend two billion dollars by the

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Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty five supporting black businesses and the

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Speaker 2: carryover five hundred black owned brands. They'd also be launching

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Speaker 2: Forward Founders, an equity free accelerator to help over sixty

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Speaker 2: black and diverse entrepreneurs scale into mass retail.

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Speaker 4: Sounds pretty good, right, Kiera thought so too.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of just working through my own feelings

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Speaker 1: about being black and growing up in predominantly white spaces

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Speaker 1: and not feeling seen and watching somebody in pain where

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Speaker 1: everybody was pointing to the reasons why it was okay,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to saying why is it happening? And all

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Speaker 1: of those things, and then there were companies coming out

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Speaker 1: saying we stand with George Floyd, we stand with the

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Speaker 1: Black community, and that was very inspiring. Our business model

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, the plan was to go straight to

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Speaker 1: B to B, which is like selling to a business

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Speaker 1: who then sells to customers, as opposed to going B

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Speaker 1: two C because going B two C is incredibly expensive.

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Speaker 1: People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars these big companies

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Speaker 1: on marketing trying to reach customers, and obviously social media

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Speaker 1: is a really helpful tool, but unless you are really

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Speaker 1: pushing your content out there with it's in paying, it's

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Speaker 1: not always the most effective at reaching people. So Target

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Speaker 1: made that statement and I was like, this is perfect.

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Speaker 1: They are pledging to spend money on black businesses, small

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Speaker 1: black businesses. We're a small black business. We seem very

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Speaker 1: mission aligned. They care about the black community.

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Speaker 4: We're black.

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Speaker 1: We created a card game that's where everybody, so I

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Speaker 1: think it'd be good for the stores. So I got

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Speaker 1: on LinkedIn and started finding emails and reaching out to

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Speaker 1: every person I could find at Target. And this is

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Speaker 1: not an ad, but I love LinkedIn because there are

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Speaker 1: only so many monikers for a company. Usually it's first

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Speaker 1: name dot last night at company dot com. If it's

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Speaker 1: not that, there are only other few first initial last

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Speaker 1: night at company dot com. So once you figure out

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Speaker 1: one and you don't get that bounce back, you know

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Speaker 1: you have the email for almost everybody at the company.

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Speaker 1: So I found as many people as I could that

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Speaker 1: worked in buying, and then one person, I think a

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Speaker 1: black woman who worked in baby products, connected us to

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Speaker 1: another person who connected us to another person eventually got

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Speaker 1: to the right buyer. They loved the game. It gave

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Speaker 1: us some suggestions about how to fix the packaging to

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Speaker 1: make it stand out on shelves, and so we took

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Speaker 1: all of those suggestions. We revamped our packaging completely to

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Speaker 1: be better for shelves, put all of our own money

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Speaker 1: into this. I personally invested like forty k of my

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Speaker 1: own personal money that I really didn't have all my

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Speaker 1: savings trying to make this product perfect for shells. And

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Speaker 1: eventually they were like, you did all the things, congratulations,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Target, and we were so excited about it. It

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Speaker 1: just felt very surreal.

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Speaker 2: This creation that came from such a place of turmoil

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Speaker 2: and difficulty is now on the shelves at Target.

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Speaker 4: How did that feel.

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Speaker 1: It was really surreal. I think that's the best word

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Speaker 1: that I have to describe it. But we were also

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Speaker 1: moving so quickly that I don't know that we ever,

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Speaker 1: or I can speak for myself. I never really took

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Speaker 1: the time to soak it in and say, I'm this

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Speaker 1: girl from a small town in Virginia who had all

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Speaker 1: these big dreams and I moved to LA and I'm

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Speaker 1: doing all the things that I said I was gonna do,

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Speaker 1: and really take that moment, because as soon as you're

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Speaker 1: in stores, it's like, we had to get certifications, we

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Speaker 1: have to make sure insurance it's good, We're figuring out

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Speaker 1: the warehouse, we're talking to our manufacturers, trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out costs, trying to figure out projections. So we didn't

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Speaker 1: really sit or I didn't really sit in the gravity

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Speaker 1: of the feeling.

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Speaker 5: I think it wasn't until I.

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Speaker 1: Probably rocked into my first target and saw the product

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Speaker 1: on shelves that I was like, WHOA, I want to

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Speaker 1: tell everybody that's my product. And then very quickly my

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Speaker 1: business mind switched on again. I was like, is this

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Speaker 1: the good placement? Who can I talk to?

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Speaker 4: Is this? You know?

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Speaker 1: How many products are in this store and how's it selling?

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Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of mix of emotion,

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Speaker 1: but it was so I would say, crowded by trying

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Speaker 1: to make sure you get to the next step, the

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Speaker 1: next thing.

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Speaker 2: This is an episode that's not pro Target, but it

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Speaker 2: does it must be pretty cool to see something that

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Speaker 2: you created on the shelf at a store like Target.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't felt with Tart any more personally, but

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Speaker 2: I don't want to take away from what a cool

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Speaker 2: moment that must have been.

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Speaker 1: I think to your point, obviously this conversation takes a

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Speaker 1: turn at some point, but less about the store itself.

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Speaker 1: I think in the moment when all of these companies

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Speaker 1: were making pledges and I had again grew up in

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Speaker 1: Virginia and had some very racist experiences growing up that

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Speaker 1: I talked about in my book. I had people from

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Speaker 1: ten to fifteen years ago calling me to apologize for

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Speaker 1: things that you know, they're like, I think back on

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Speaker 1: these moments and I'm sorry. I had a girl from

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Speaker 1: class in law school who was like, Hey, you know

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Speaker 1: how our professor you were the only black person in

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Speaker 1: our class and he used to call you colored and

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Speaker 1: made you uncomfortable. When we all saw it no one

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Speaker 1: said anything like we should have said something. So just

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Speaker 1: all of the acknowledgement that people were actually seeing it

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Speaker 1: felt good to be like, whoa, my experiences aren't invisible.

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Speaker 5: I'm not being gas lit.

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Speaker 1: Somebody believes me about what it's like to be a

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Speaker 1: black woman in this country or just a black human being.

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Speaker 4: I really know how that feels. I'm also from Virginia.

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Speaker 5: You know, you know the vibes that you know.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with friends parents who were like doing

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Speaker 1: battle re enactments off the battlefields because Manassas was one

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Speaker 1: of the battles of the South one and then people

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Speaker 1: would have parage and celebrate that, and that felt weird.

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Speaker 1: And I'm passing statues and schools that are named after

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Speaker 1: Confederate soldiers at the Confederacy Loss and I'm like, but

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Speaker 1: you guys wanted slaves, and they're like, no, we're just

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Speaker 1: celebrating the past.

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Speaker 5: So a lot of gas.

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Speaker 4: Lighting that is. That was also a big part of

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Speaker 4: my experience.

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Speaker 2: I used to drive down Monument Avenue to get to

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Speaker 2: my high school every day, and when I was in

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Speaker 2: elementary school. People think I'm making this up, but I

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Speaker 2: swear to you this was real. When I was in

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Speaker 2: elementary school, my public school would do Civil War Day

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Speaker 2: where kids could choose to be Confederate or Union soldiers

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Speaker 2: and come to school dressed up as either side and

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Speaker 2: do a battle march on our school wolve's front lawn.

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Speaker 2: Every time I tell that story, people are like, well,

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Speaker 2: certainly that wasn't happening in nineteen ninety two in Virginia,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 4: Say, sir, I can assure you that it very much was.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: This is why I'm grateful for the Internet, because I've

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Speaker 1: told people just google Manassas Civil War parade like it'll

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Speaker 1: you can see the Google battle re enactments. I'm not

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Speaker 1: making it up, but you can see it for yourself.

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Speaker 1: And had a friend watch it. She was like, this

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Speaker 1: is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, if.

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Speaker 2: The story of me and Target is a breakup story,

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Speaker 2: then this is the part where I tell you how

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Speaker 2: good things used to be. All those big announcements about

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Speaker 2: supporting black owned brands, well, my black ass ate it

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Speaker 2: right up, because listen, I'm a Target girl. Do I

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Speaker 2: want to get a nice coffee and walk around Target

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Speaker 2: for no reason at all?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Yes, I do, and it wasn't just the vibes.

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Speaker 2: Target was one of the first big box stores to

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Speaker 2: carry products for black natural hair. I literally could not

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Speaker 2: have gone natural had there not been a Target in

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Speaker 2: my town. So when Target said they were supporting us,

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Speaker 2: it felt real. Well, it felt like they saw us.

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Speaker 2: But like any bad relationship, comes that moment where you

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Speaker 2: start to question things and maybe even start to wonder

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Speaker 2: am I being lied to. I've tried to explain this

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Speaker 2: to people, but Target, especially in twenty twenty, but for

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Speaker 2: me even before, it kind of felt like Target was

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Speaker 2: like for us. Now, obviously they're a corporation. I think

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Speaker 2: we're all smart enough to know that they are about

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Speaker 2: money first and foremost. But they did all of these

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Speaker 2: things to signal that they did want to make investments

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Speaker 2: in our community. And so I think giving given the

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Speaker 2: boycott and everything, people will often ask me, well, where's

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Speaker 2: the smoke for Walmart?

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Speaker 4: Where's the smoke for Amazon?

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Speaker 2: And the reason why I think it's different is because

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Speaker 2: Target went out of their way to make to like

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Speaker 2: signal to us that they see us, They're for us,

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Speaker 2: they want to be in community with creators like you,

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Speaker 2: and as far as I know, I mean, I feel

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Speaker 2: like Amazon and Walmart have been very clear about who

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Speaker 2: they are the whole time, and so for me, Target

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Speaker 2: felt different.

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Speaker 4: Do you did you feel similarly?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: I tell people all the time, it's cut and dry,

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Speaker 1: it's not hard. I don't like being lied to. I

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Speaker 1: am an attorney by training. I understand business. I understand money.

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Speaker 1: I understand that for profit businesses are in it to

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Speaker 1: make money. But Target made a financial commitment to the

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Speaker 1: black community. I want to believe that you're going to

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Speaker 1: do what you say you're going to do. That should

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Speaker 1: be a very basic tenant principle of morality of business,

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Speaker 1: of community doing what you say you're going to do.

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Speaker 1: For us, specifically, when it came to Target, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were having all of these there's by Black on

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Speaker 1: the app, and then there's a by Black section in

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Speaker 1: the stores, and they were coming off as trying to

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Speaker 1: be a part of the community. For lack of a

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Speaker 1: better metaphor, they wanted an invite to the cookout so bad,

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Speaker 1: and they were saying all the things and doing all

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Speaker 1: of the things and speaking the language. And very quickly

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Speaker 1: we started to I would say a year or two

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Speaker 1: into the partnership, Oh, this was performative.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that's always rubbed me the wrong

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Speaker 2: way is how companies frame their support for black business

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Speaker 2: like it's charity, Like we should just be grateful for

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Speaker 2: the opportunity.

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Speaker 4: But let's be real that framing is offensive.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that when a major corporation invests in

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Speaker 2: a black owned business, it gets talked about like a handout.

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Speaker 1: The first thing being I think it was our second year,

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Speaker 1: the first year we were in the toy catalog for Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and I would say they kind of did the things

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Speaker 1: they said they were going.

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Speaker 5: To do again.

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Speaker 1: They didn't just say, oh, we're going to support black businesses.

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Speaker 1: They said we're going to make a financial investment in

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Speaker 1: these businesses. So as a small business, when you hear investments,

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Speaker 1: especially when it pertains to marketing, that's an incredible opportunity.

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Speaker 1: We know black businesses are the least funded by venture capitalists,

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Speaker 1: and we know you need a marketing budget to do well.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the budget for the warehouse and the product.

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Speaker 1: There's an extra capital that has to be there in

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Speaker 1: order to market the product. So it also was frustrating

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Speaker 1: because other people would be like, oh, you are expecting

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Speaker 1: a handout. I'm like, almost every white business I know

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Speaker 1: got an investment, and you just say they had.

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Speaker 5: They believed in the product, so they had investors.

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Speaker 1: Why is it that our business can't be a business

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Speaker 1: that's taking an investment. Why do you see it as

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Speaker 1: a handout when it comes to a black business. Everybody

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Speaker 1: builds a business on somebody else's money, not everybody most people.

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Speaker 1: Most people build a business on somebody else's money. They

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Speaker 1: get funding in order to get to a certain level.

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Speaker 2: So all those inspirational Target ads, the ones featuring traditionally

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Speaker 2: marginalized creators and black owned brands, the ones that gave

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Speaker 2: me all those warm fuzzies and made me feel super seene, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it turns out that a lot of those creators had

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Speaker 2: to pay Target out of their own pockets to make

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Speaker 2: that happen. Let me say that again, the very people

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Speaker 2: being spotlighted, the ones whose stories are being used to

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Speaker 2: sell inclusion and progress and make Target look really woke,

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Speaker 2: those same people were often footing the bill themselves. So

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Speaker 2: while I was busy watching those ads thinking wow, Target

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Speaker 2: really gets it, the truth is a lot of that

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Speaker 2: visibility came with a cost, like a real financial cost,

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Speaker 2: not to target to the very people they claimed to

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Speaker 2: be helping and uplifting.

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Speaker 1: So I would say, like our second year in, we

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Speaker 1: got all these emails about Black History coming up and

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Speaker 1: we would love to feature you. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but they were doing all

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Speaker 1: these commercials with the black or leftin of brands and

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Speaker 1: all of these ads, and we were like, cool, that

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Speaker 1: sounds like an awesome opportunity. You were going to give

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Speaker 1: us visibility. We are paying for the rest. To be clear,

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Speaker 1: we were paying out of pocket with our own money

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Speaker 1: for the warehouse, we were paying for the product, We

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Speaker 1: were paying for insurance. There was no like check that

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Speaker 1: they gave us to help out. The only help was

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Speaker 1: the visibility. So we have a meeting and they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'd love to feature you for Black History Month. If

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Speaker 1: you here's the deck, here's the presentation. If you want

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Speaker 1: to be part of you know, this group of like

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Speaker 1: ten products on the web page, on this random landing page,

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Speaker 1: it's only five thousand dollars. If you want to be

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Speaker 1: part of this, it's only fifteen thousand dollars. If you

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Speaker 1: want your own features, it's only for the low price

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Speaker 1: of seventy five thousand dollars, you too can be And

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second time out, what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 2: So while Target was raking in warm, fuzzy pr from

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Speaker 2: rubs like me for spotlighting black owned brands, they were

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Speaker 2: also shaking those very brands down for money just to

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Speaker 2: be spotlighted. So while it looked like support, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: it was more like a pay to play scheme dressed

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Speaker 2: up as progress.

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Speaker 1: I'm an entertainment attorney, right, I work with talent and

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Speaker 1: brand partnerships. If you're on social media and Instagram, you know,

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Speaker 1: if a brand is partnering with talent and the talent

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Speaker 1: is being paid, they're supposed to say add hashtag whatever

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Speaker 1: brand partner. This is an ad. You see the links.

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Speaker 1: The FTC makes it very clear. But with Target, they

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Speaker 1: made it appear as if this was they were doing

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Speaker 1: some philanthropy for the black community by giving us visibility,

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Speaker 1: when in actuality, they were taking fifty percent of the product.

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Speaker 1: We paid for everything out of pocket, and now you're

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Speaker 1: asking me to pay for the marketing. So it became

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Speaker 1: something that it was like, this feels like a marketing scheme.

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Speaker 1: It's more expensive to be in target, Like this isn't

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Speaker 1: you investing in me? This is me investing in your business,

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Speaker 1: Like you're taking our money to build out your business,

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Speaker 1: and you pitshed this as something completely different.

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Speaker 2: When a company promises one thing, take somebody's money and

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Speaker 2: deliver is a totally different thing.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't want to call it a scam,

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Speaker 4: but it sounds like a scam to me.

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Speaker 2: And they didn't just scam the brand, they scammed us too,

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Speaker 2: the people who actually believed and what they stood for.

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Speaker 4: I'm stunned.

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Speaker 2: Like I knew so doing my research on you and

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Speaker 2: doing my research all my black readers, I knew there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of legwork and money that it took

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Speaker 2: to play ball with some of these big brands, I

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Speaker 2: didn't know it was like this. I mean, this sounds

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Speaker 2: like pay to play, Like this almost sounds like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: let alone the false narrative that they are giving you

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Speaker 2: a handout.

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Speaker 4: This is them. It almost sounds like they're like low

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Speaker 4: key scamming you all.

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Speaker 1: And that's what it felt like to me, if I'm honest,

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Speaker 1: a marketing scam. And I've talked to other small business

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Speaker 1: owners about their experiences who feel the same way, some

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Speaker 1: of whom had even worse experiences than we did. People

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Speaker 1: who paid ten twenty five thousand dollars and Target forgot

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Speaker 1: to turn on the shipping so people could see the ad,

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Speaker 1: but no one could buy the product. So that's a

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Speaker 1: waste of a small business of money. People just had

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Speaker 1: really horrible experiences. And I think again it comes back

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Speaker 1: to transparency. We know for most small businesses, if you're

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Speaker 1: getting into the retail game, it's going to cost a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, which is why people get investors. If

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Speaker 1: a company is saying, hey, we understand why the Black

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Speaker 1: commun unity has this disparity. We understand that your ancestors

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Speaker 1: built this country on their backs and we're never compensated

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Speaker 1: anything for it and have set you back probably thousands

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Speaker 1: of years. So we kind of want to do our

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Speaker 1: part to make things better. So we're going to make

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Speaker 1: a financial investment. But then when you start to do

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Speaker 1: the numbers, it's you're actually investing in them. To me,

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Speaker 1: that is false, it's false advertising, it's deceptive, it's manipulative,

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Speaker 1: not to the small businesses only, but to the consumers,

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Speaker 1: to the customers. Because the people I know who were

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Speaker 1: going to Target. Of yeah, they would go, they would

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Speaker 1: buy our game, they would buy the other black products.

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Speaker 1: But then you're there on a Saturday, and I'll speak

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Speaker 1: for myself. I was buying everything else too. I was

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Speaker 1: a Target girly, so I would stop Starbucks, get my coffee,

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Speaker 1: do my runs, add the things to my cart. So

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Speaker 1: people like to pretend like, oh, Target was doing the

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Speaker 1: business as a favor. I'm like, no, Target was doing

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Speaker 1: every business a favor, because the foot traffic they brought

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Speaker 1: in by pretending to be dedicated to something that they

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Speaker 1: actually were not, was affecting everybody. Everybody was getting more

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Speaker 1: foot traffic. Everybody was doing well, and they saw that

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Speaker 1: when we left the stores, the foot traffic decreased. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of times these businesses know the price of everything,

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Speaker 1: but the value of nothing. They didn't understand the value

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Speaker 1: of supporting the black community, which is wild to me,

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Speaker 1: especially because black women spend more money really on hair

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Speaker 1: care and beauty and in that space than anybody. So

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Speaker 1: you should be wanting you, You should basically be doing

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Speaker 1: whatever we say because if you support us, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: support you. That's the way black women are. I am loyal, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I decide I like you, I like you. I

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00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: don't even like going to another hairdresser because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I have a hairdresser, and not a lot of black

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Speaker 1: men are the same with their barber. Like we are

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Speaker 1: very loyal people, so to the extent where treated well,

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Speaker 1: we'll continue to show up. But my mama did not

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Speaker 1: raise no fool. When our communities show up, we bring

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Speaker 1: profit with us. The CEO of Target actually bragged about

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Speaker 1: how diversity and inclusion efforts were profitable for the company. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: leadership next podcast.

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Speaker 6: When your teams, your leadership represents the consumer you serve.

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Speaker 6: I think good things happen so I can see the

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Speaker 6: benefits for our shareholders. I know that focus on diversity

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Speaker 6: and inclusion and equity has fueled much of our growth

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Speaker 6: over the last nine years.

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Speaker 2: This interview was in twenty twenty three, when the political

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Speaker 2: backlash against anything woke was really taking hold. Target CEO

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Speaker 2: was asked how he will maintain Target's dei stances and

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Speaker 2: a changing political climate.

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Speaker 6: We think about what's right for our team and what's

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Speaker 6: consistent with our culture and alan When we do that,

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Speaker 6: I think we make really good decisions and we add

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Speaker 6: value for our shareholders, and that's part of why we've

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Speaker 6: seen explosive top line growth. So I think the facts

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Speaker 6: are in the results for us and the things we've done.

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Speaker 6: From a D and I standpoint, it's adding value, it's

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Speaker 6: helping us drive sales, it's building greater engagement with both

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Speaker 6: our teams and our guests. Those are just the right

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Speaker 6: things for our business today.

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Speaker 4: So what's interesting about what you're saying is that I.

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Speaker 2: In preparation for thinking about Target, I listened to old

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Speaker 2: podcast episodes where their leadership was on different business podcasts

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Speaker 2: and all the stuff that you just said, Target knows

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Speaker 2: they they clear as day. Their leadership went on podcasts

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Speaker 2: and said, oh, the investments that we made in black

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Speaker 2: creators helped our bottom line.

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Speaker 4: And so this idea that them.

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Speaker 2: Quote unquote supporting creators of color was a handout they were.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's disgusting to hear how scammy that support

439
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: in quotes actually was. But like supporting it, being inclusive

440
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: is good for business, right Like they're not doing it

441
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: because it's charity or because it's the right thing to do,

442
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: per their own leadership publics, their public statements.

443
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 4: They were doing it because it made them more money.

444
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: And so it's just wild to me how quick they

445
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: would be to turn on this loyalty that they built,

446
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: even though that loyalty was built on a lie. Like,

447
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 2: I just don't understand why they would block their own

448
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: bag in that way.

449
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: I think people get very cocky, and you see it

450
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: a lot in corporate America where they start to take

451
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: advantage of the very people that they're pledging to help.

452
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: And I've seen just really egregious things working as an attorney.

453
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: But you know, obviously the disparity in pay between white

454
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: craters and black creators are. With white craters, it's like, oh,

455
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: we can't use this likeness or image without her permission.

456
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: With black creaters, it's like, let's just tagger and not

457
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: pay her. And I'm like, come again, and they're like,

458
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: don't you think she'll be honored to be included in

459
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: this campaign? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, You've

460
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: never said that for any of the white creators that

461
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: they'd be honored. You understand that their business, their brand

462
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: actually is their income and you can't feature their image

463
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: or their likeness without paying them. Why is it when

464
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: it comes to the black craters for Black history month.

465
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: You're like, they they're just going to be honored to

466
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: be mentioned, so it's not unique. I think what really

467
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: was hurtful with Target is that there were so many

468
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: promises made, not just to the public, but we had

469
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: meetings with our buyers at the time. We had, you know,

470
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: all of these promises that were made, all of these

471
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: campaigns we were supposed to be included in, and we

472
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: were getting really excited based upon what we were told

473
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: was going to happen, and then it didn't happen, and

474
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: people started to talk about, oh, it's the ROI the sales.

475
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: We understand that, like I said, black business, diverse businesses

476
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: was good for Target's bottom line, which is why they

477
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: did it and why they continued to do it. I

478
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: think when they started to get cocky and everybody was

479
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: doing well right, like everybody's eating, all of a sudden,

480
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: it's like, thanks for coming to the party. You can

481
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: see yourself out. We good, we full here. I'm like, oh, okay,

482
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: And I really believe, especially when it comes to supporting

483
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: black businesses, that support without capital's counterfeit.

484
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 5: It's not support, it's lip service.

485
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 4: That's very very well put.

486
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: And you know, I want to talk more about this

487
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: sort of legwork that it took, you know, financial leg

488
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 2: work that it took to play ball with Target in

489
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: this way.

490
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: I think it did give.

491
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: Me warm fuzzies to walk around Target previously and see

492
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: women who looked like me, you know, in on the

493
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: shows like I'm not gonna lie.

494
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: Like that felt good.

495
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: But I think that the way that that looks flashy

496
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: and cool from the outside, when from the inside it

497
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: maybe isn't so flashy and isn't so cool. I've been

498
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: and I've had experiences like this where I'm invited on

499
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: a brand trip and if people knew it's like actually,

500
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 2: like like I read about your the trip that you

501
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: took to Italy where it's like, actually, we had to

502
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: pay for the flights and the lodging and we.

503
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 4: Probably spent more money on our own to get there.

504
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: And yet Target gets to have the like the like

505
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: good pr of having invited these like diverse creators to Italy.

506
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: And I guess the question is, like, I don't know

507
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: in my experience, that has taken some emotional work to

508
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 2: be like yeah, it sucks, like yeah, it sucks to

509
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: feel like you're gonna be included in this fancy thing

510
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: and actually have to pay to play, and there.

511
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 4: There was an emotion.

512
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: I guess there was an emotional not only a financial

513
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: but an emotional cost that you have to carry where

514
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: you have to sort of eat these little indignities that

515
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: people on the outside simply aren't privy too.

516
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 4: They don't see.

517
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and so many of us were siloed

518
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: in our experiences, so you start I think it feels

519
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: very similar to tell people to like a bad breakup

520
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: where you were really excited about the person, You're posting

521
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: them all over your socials, and then they leave you

522
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: and you're embarrassed and your stat and you're like, do

523
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: I take the pictures down? Was it a good relationship?

524
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: Did you ever love me? And then maybe you start

525
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: questioning yourself was I not enough? Could I have been better?

526
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: Of course, we can always be better at some capacity,

527
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: And there's this spiral that you kind of go down.

528
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until that, you know, Target made the

529
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: announcements about pulling back, and we were learning other I

530
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: was talking to other small black creators who had the

531
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: exact same experiences, people who had taken out two hundred,

532
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars in loans. These invoices weren't being

533
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: paid who were dropped suddenly. And I think what's hard

534
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: for us too, is that we are a card game

535
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: that was literally built on telling stories, being honest, having

536
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: hard conversations. Small businesses have to forecast, like a year out.

537
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: People don't understand that either, because if you're shipping your product,

538
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: that shipping time, depending on the state of the country,

539
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: that shipping time can be a very long time. And

540
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: it's very expensive to ship product quickly, and you have

541
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: to order a lot of products in order to get

542
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: a good rate. So we have to forecast. We can't

543
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: afford to, you know, be in February and we're planning

544
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: for March, June, July, August, September, and then we already

545
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: have all the product for the season, and then right

546
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: before the season you're like, yeah, by the way, what

547
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: do you mean, by the way, We've already made the purchase.

548
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: So even if there was going to be a conversation

549
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: about scaling back, what I would have liked was some

550
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: sort of notice, you know, meet with us a year

551
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: in advance and say, hey, next year, we're actually planning

552
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: to scale back. This is probably going to be your

553
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 1: last year in store. I'm going to give you an

554
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: opportunity to plan accordingly. So because we understand you're a

555
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: small business. We made all these promises. We're taking the

556
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: promise back. A nice runway would have been nice.

557
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: Right after Trump was elected, Target made a big shift.

558
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: They abandoned all of their dea goals and announced that

559
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: all of those big commitments to the black community were

560
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: coming to an end.

561
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: Kiara had just become a new mom.

562
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: She had poured her time, energy, and a lot of

563
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: her own money into making the partnership with Target work,

564
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: and then just like that, she was dumped. You've said

565
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: that like there was no big announcement or anything.

566
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 4: They just pulled back, And.

567
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 2: This was happening for you and your personal life when

568
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 2: you would just you were like a new mom, congratulations

569
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: on that, by the way, But like already all of

570
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: these big personal life changes and Target just pulls.

571
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 4: Back, Like what was what? What? What? Tell me what that was?

572
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: Like? It was very confusing. As I mentioned, I think

573
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: as a small business, when you're forecasting, notice is everything.

574
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: Communication is everything. Telling somebody, hey, next year, we're going

575
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: to pull back. We've made all these promises we're not

576
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: going to keep them. If they would have had the

577
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: dignity to tell us like, that's that's what we're looking at.

578
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: So we're going to give you this year to finish off,

579
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, product merchandising, so you guys can prepare accordingly

580
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: so that when you're forecasting for next year, you know

581
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: that's don't plan to come back. That would have been

582
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: very sad, but it would have given us time. We

583
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: were already we had inventory already for Christmas, because Christmas

584
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: is like best selling time, especially if you're in like

585
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: the game and toy space. And so then when fall

586
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four and they had made the announcement

587
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: in you know, early twenty twenty five, when they told

588
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: us for the fall that they weren't going to move forward,

589
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean? We already have all

590
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: the inventory for the holiday here. And there was no explanation,

591
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: There was no talk about sales. I think the exact

592
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: wording we got was there's been a shift in the lineup,

593
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: good luck, carry on. And so even that felt very cold,

594
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: especially because at the very beginning again there was a

595
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: lot of conversation and convincing us to do it, and

596
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: then you know, but you got to go get your

597
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: diversity certification so that we can put on our page

598
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: that you're black. We got to be able to tell

599
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: people because we didn't really care, like you could tell

600
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: them or not tell them we're a black business. But

601
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: it was important to Target because that's part of their

602
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: pr to show how many black businesses they have. So

603
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: there was all this courting and then it felt like

604
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: a breakup through a text message good luck, hope all

605
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: is well, and you know that that was it. There

606
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: was no additional conversation. Oh and then they add and

607
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: we'll let you know if we need you to buy

608
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: any of the product back, which also terrifying for a

609
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: small business. So I actually had a journalist reach out

610
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: to me winter twenty twenty four before the announcement, independently

611
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: from a reputable news source, and she was like, Hey,

612
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: I've been doing some research and I've noticed that a

613
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: lot of the black businesses that Target pledged to support

614
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty are no longer in the store or

615
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: on the shelves. Like I'm just looking them up and

616
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: it's like gone, gone, gone, what's going on? And that

617
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: was the first time that fell a little validating because

618
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second, is that true? So

619
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: I started doing my own research.

620
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 5: She was right.

621
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: They made the announcement, and then other small businesses started

622
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: reaching out to me and I started having conversations, and

623
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa. I thought that this was happening

624
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: in a silo, but we're all having the same experiences,

625
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: and so, if anything, I think it's actually been such

626
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: a blessing because we have now I've created I feel

627
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: like a community of other small black entrepreneurs. And again

628
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: this is these are like the small businesses. None of

629
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: us are celebrities. We don't have celebrity names or like

630
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: celebrity backing. We don't have millions of followers. I made

631
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: a viral, you know, TikTok video talking about my experience,

632
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: but I think at the time I had like one

633
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty followers on TikTok or something kids you not,

634
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: So we didn't have like these huge platforms. It was

635
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: really just the visibility that Target promised and then they've

636
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: removed it after we'd all spent a lot of money

637
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: and had a lot of product left, and was kind

638
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: of like good luck.

639
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: So I so much stays to say about this one

640
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: is that I firmly believe that you know, business is business,

641
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: I get it. But how you move in business is

642
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: a choice. So, as you said, they could have respectfully

643
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: communicated with clarity and transparency with you. Wouldn't have You

644
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: wouldn't have loved it, You wouldn't have been throwing a party,

645
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: but you would have understood and moved on and been

646
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: able to make plans, YadA, YadA, YadA. The choice to

647
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: essentially break up with you via text that that's a choice.

648
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: That's not business.

649
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: No one forced them to handle business in such a disrespectful, sleazy,

650
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: dirty way. Uh, that was a choice, And I think

651
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: that communicates a lot about about like that tells me

652
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: a lot about the people who are leadership that target.

653
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: I guess I'll say that.

654
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: And then, you know, when you were talking about how

655
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: you felt quite siloed, I have to imagine that target

656
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: was sort of banking on you, as an individual creator,

657
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: internalizing this negative feeling and thinking I must have done

658
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: something wrong. They must have had some infra about my product,

659
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: about how it wasn't going well. This must have been

660
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: I must have made some sort of mistake. They probably

661
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: weren't counting on you reaching out to other creators and realizing, oh,

662
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 2: this is a pattern.

663
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 4: They're doing this with all of us. They probably just wanted.

664
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: You personally to internalize that you had like botched this

665
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: opportunity in some way.

666
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: I fully agree. And again, I'm an attorney, so I'm

667
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: an investigator. Even I think slightly before we got the announcement,

668
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: there were stores where I'd pop up because we don't

669
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: get any information from Target about our demographics.

670
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 5: Like who's buying, like what.

671
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: They don't share any of that, so we also have

672
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: no knowledge of that other than where it's selling and

673
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: maybe what stores it's selling in. We would ask questions

674
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: about which cities is it selling best, which stores is

675
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: it selling in, so I could figure out where we

676
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: need to get our sales up. So some of these

677
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: stores that they tell me we had product in, I

678
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles, so there were good number of

679
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: stores here. Some of these stores I started to pop

680
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: up in and I'd be, you know, walking through the

681
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: gay mile in the section, and I didn't see our

682
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: product anywhere, and I'd be very con and I'd look

683
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: online and I'd be like, Okay, there's units, but it's

684
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: not here. So i'd find a manager or something. There's

685
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: one store in particular. Finally I had a conversation with

686
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: the human and I was like, hey, excuse me, I'm

687
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: a creator. My product is supposed to be here. Can

688
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: you go find it? And they went to the back

689
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: and brought the product out and they're like, oh, here

690
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: it is. And I was like, wait, why isn't it

691
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: on shelves and they were like, oh, sometimes if we

692
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: only order a small amount of product, we don't actually

693
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: put it on the shelf because then we have to

694
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: print out the tags and it costs money for the store.

695
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: And that made me irate because again, deceptive, I'm giving

696
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: you almost fifty percent of my profits and what you're

697
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be giving in return is shelf space. It's visibility,

698
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: it's the idea that all these people who come to

699
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: Target are going to see the product. Now I'm really

700
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: feeling like Rosa Parks because you're telling me we did

701
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: all this and the product is in the back of

702
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: the warehouse. So there we was so much that was

703
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: going into it. When people would talk about like, oh,

704
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: but what were the sales? Were the sales and like,

705
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: you have no idea? What was happening on the back end.

706
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: Of course, you want a product to sell. We did

707
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: well when our product was in the toy magazine, When

708
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: our product was on stores, we were always like right

709
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: in the pack, selling well. Like there was never an

710
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: issue of like, no, right, no one's buying your product.

711
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: Of course, if your product's in the back, if your

712
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: product's not featured, if you have no visibility, if all

713
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: the promise for marketing is taken away and nobody knows

714
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: it exists, you're not going to sell a product.

715
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I I'm it's not often that I am

716
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: like speechless and flabbergasted, but I the idea of putting

717
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: your products on the back that goes counter to how

718
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 2: people shop at Target.

719
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 4: When you're stopping at Target, it's I can't, okay. I

720
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 4: don't think I've ever had.

721
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: An idea of something I wanted to buy and then

722
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: gone to Target specifically to buy it, and then if

723
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: I didn't see it, I asked, I asked the cashier

724
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: or something. People need to see the item on the

725
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: shelf and then make the decision to buy it, and

726
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: so having it in the back and is banking on

727
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: someone coming in and being like, oh, do you have

728
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: the game is I mean, it almost sounds like they

729
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: I didn't want you all to make money.

730
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 4: Could that be the case.

731
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: I can't speak to their intentions because I'm not in

732
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: their minds, but I do know it's deceptive to say

733
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: we have one hundred something black people in our stores

734
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: that were featuring when we're not actually being featured, Like

735
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 1: that's crazy to me, but they continue to get away

736
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: with it. And I don't think these problems are unique

737
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: to Target. I think with big retail in general, there's

738
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: a lot that I wish I knew before we were

739
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: in about the product. But I'm the first person in

740
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: my family to have a product in stores, so this

741
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: was definitely a level of education for all of us.

742
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: But I think more so than that, it was the

743
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: lack of transparency and being told one thing when another

744
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: thing was happening. And we just kept experiencing that over

745
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: and over again.

746
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 5: And I don't like that. I don't like being lied to.

747
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: Had you known how quickly Target was going to pull

748
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: their investments in black creators and how they were going

749
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: to treat you, and like the leg work and fight

750
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: and like personal financial cost, it was going to come

751
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 2: to come with the beating target, would you still make

752
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: that deal?

753
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 5: Absolutely not.

754
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: There's no way we spent more money. We spent more

755
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: money than we made. We would have taken I would

756
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: have taken those savings and put them into trying to

757
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: reach customers Again. The whole idea was that this is

758
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: actually going to be financially beneficial for us because we

759
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: have a company that's going to invest money to help

760
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 1: us reach customers. So the very little capital I did

761
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: have saved up, I used to make the product better

762
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: to be put on shelves that wasn't even showcased on

763
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: the shelf, like y'all told us we needed a telescope

764
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: box that would show nicely. If you weren't going to

765
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: put it on the shelf, you could have let us

766
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: keep the little hanktag boxes and what we need a

767
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: good forty thousand dollars.

768
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: God, I mean, I know that you're not calling Target scammers.

769
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: This the whole thing just feels scammy to me, Like

770
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 2: it just feels like a like a bait and switch,

771
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: Like when you promise one thing and deliver a completely

772
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: different thing.

773
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 4: The word I have for that is a scam.

774
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: Like, my God, and I mean this sounds terrible. It

775
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: is what it is, gonna be honest. I grew up

776
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: in the South right, like, I knew who was racist.

777
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: I knew who flew the Confederate flags. I knew who

778
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: the kid in my class he was like, You're just

779
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: gonna get in because you're black. I'm like, actually, I'm

780
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: at the top of my class. I'm over four point

781
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: zho GPA and I'm president of everything. That's why I'm

782
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: going to get into a good school. Not because I'm black,

783
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: but like I knew who to look at and be

784
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: like yes, no, yes, no.

785
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 5: This was hard for me.

786
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: I think this season has been hard, even living out

787
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: in LA because the racism exists, but it's all gaslighting.

788
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: It's done behind closed doors. People say one thing to

789
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: you and then you get behind a closed door and

790
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: it's something completely different. The conversations shift. And at this

791
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: level in my career and now, I've in rooms where

792
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: a lot of decisions are made and I sometimes I'm

793
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: screaming at the top.

794
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 5: Of my lungs.

795
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: Everybody's lying, like you don't care about these communities. This

796
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: is are all about the ROI you want to make

797
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying making money's bad. If you're a business,

798
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: you want to make money. Hopefully the relationship is mutually beneficial.

799
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: But that's the piece that's missing. It has to be

800
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: mutually beneficial. It can't just be beneficial for you in

801
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: detrimental for me. That's not a relationship. That's manipulation. I'm like,

802
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: you could tell me a joke, you could tell me

803
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: something I don't like, but don't tell me lie.

804
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 5: The lie is what triggers me.

805
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: More.

806
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: After a quick break, let's get right back into it,

807
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: essence best. The multi generational Celebration of Black Women took

808
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: over New Orleans earlier this month, but this year some

809
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: folks were side eyeing the sponsors because Target was one

810
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: of them, and around this same time, mega popular streamer

811
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: Kai Sinat announced a brand partnership with Target two. It

812
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 2: also made a three hundred thousand dollars donation to a

813
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 2: black church organization, a move that, let's be honest, looked

814
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: like damage control. So how does Kiara feel about black brands,

815
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 2: creators and organizations who still play ball with Target even

816
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: after the boycott, even after the about face. Honestly, she

817
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 2: gets it because for a lot of black entrepreneurs, especially

818
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: the smaller ones. This isn't just about values. It's about survival, visibility,

819
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: what you have to do to feed your family. And

820
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: that's part of what makes us all so painful and complicated.

821
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: Target built a pipeline that black brands bought into emotionally

822
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: and financially, and then they just walked away, leaving people

823
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: to either stay in the game or lose everything they

824
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: put in. Is there a flip side to this because

825
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: right now a lot of us are asking questions of

826
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: like big, higher profile black creators of partnerships with Target,

827
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: and asking like, what are your thoughts on the boycott

828
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: this and that? And I wonder if is there a

829
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: dynamic where black creates are expected to shoulder a burden

830
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: from our community that non black creators don't have to shoulder. Right, Like,

831
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: nobody's asking white creators like, oh, are you planning on

832
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 2: pulling out of Target given the boycotts? But I almost

833
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: wonder if we are asking black creators to shoulder something

834
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: that their non black peers to simply don't have to

835
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: think about.

836
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

837
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one hundred percent does And I tell people

838
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: all the time buy from black creators and the space

839
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: where they're telling you is most beneficial for their business.

840
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: Because you don't know what people's contracts look like. You

841
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: don't know, like we had our actual physical product. A

842
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: lot of the bickers creators have licensing deals, which is

843
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: completely different. It's not a product that they've created owned

844
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: have in their hand. It's a product that the company

845
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: makes or another company makes, and they just get the

846
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: right to put their name on it. They might have

847
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: the right to license your name for the next two

848
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: years without you, and if you pull out, you have

849
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: to pay them a million dollars. As I mentioned, even

850
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: for us that they let us know, you might have

851
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: to buy back your product if we don't sell out

852
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: of it, or if we take it off stores. So

853
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: it can be very expensive to get out of a situation.

854
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: I think the best way to talk about it is

855
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: somebody in the abusive relationship. It's very easy to be like, girl,

856
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: why are you still with that man? There's just so

857
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: much that goes into it. You don't know their financial situation,

858
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: you don't know what traumas they have.

859
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 5: You don't know.

860
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: You just don't know, and people need the space and

861
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: the time to have the freedom to make decisions that

862
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: make the best sense for them and those decisions. I

863
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: think it's not fair to say the decision that you're

864
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: making to try to make sure you're in a situation

865
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: that's not going to pull to you in the hole

866
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: is contrary to what it means to support the people

867
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: to support.

868
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 5: And again, very complicated.

869
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: I think it really is kind of like a creator

870
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: by creator, case by case situation.

871
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: That's a really eloquent way of putting it, and I

872
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: appreciate it in your TikTok that I initially saw that

873
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 2: you were like, listen, people gotta do what works for them.

874
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: But here is where I personally am at right like

875
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: keeping it with like, here are the decisions that I

876
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: am making as it pertains to target people can do

877
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: what works for them.

878
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 4: Here's where I'm at.

879
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And I don't know if you've ever

880
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: had this experience of working in corporate America. Kind of

881
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: the same thing with the job. If you're at a

882
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: job and managers are toxic and you're like, this is crazy,

883
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: they're racist, girl, I'm out. If you have the luxury

884
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: to be out today, that's good for you. But like

885
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: I got rich, so I might need to like apply

886
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: to other jobs. First, have some conversations, figure out a

887
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: plane before I can get out, Like, everybody's situation is

888
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: just so different, so it's hard to judge on the

889
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: outside when you don't know what's happening on the inside.

890
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: And to that vein, I mean, what do you make

891
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: of hearing Target as a sponsor of Essence Fest this

892
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: time around, or like Target is giving money to these

893
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: big black church groups, what do you make of that?

894
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: I think we all have to make choices about how

895
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: we're going to concede given that capitalism and racism are

896
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: the waters that we're swimming in. Like I feel some

897
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: type of way about I don't know things that Mark

898
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg says, but I still have an Instagram. I feel

899
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: some type of way about how where products are coming

900
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: from and whether they're being sourced in an organic matter,

901
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: if it's harming the community. I hate that AI is

902
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: bad for the community, But also sometimes I use it

903
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: to help me with an email, and I have to

904
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: have conversations with myself like, ugh, what are the unless

905
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to like live outside in a tent with

906
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: no cell phone and no computer and no contact and

907
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: grow my own food and all these things I think

908
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: we're all making if we're honest with ourselves, there are

909
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: areas where we're all making concessions in ways that we

910
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: are that are not the most ideal. But you have

911
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: to ask, like, where what's the most important? What sacrifices

912
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: am I willing to make? Can I stand on business

913
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to those sacrifices. And I've heard other

914
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: people say to kind of use your money the way

915
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: that you would use your voice. So when things become

916
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, things become incredibly egregious. It's like, okay,

917
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: like I got off X, I don't have a Twitter X,

918
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: whatever it's called.

919
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 5: I don't use that anymore.

920
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: At a certain point it becomes so egregious that you

921
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: have to step away. But I think everybody has to

922
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: just decide for themselves. How can I look in the

923
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 1: mirror and feel like I am showing up as the best,

924
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: most capable, honest person and still try to find a

925
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: way to navigate the fact that we got bills to pay.

926
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it and

927
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: very realistic. I sometimes feel online people it's like they

928
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: think we all can be like people should do what

929
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: they can do, But it's sometimes I feel like there's

930
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: an expectation that we can all be these perfect advocates

931
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: and perfect activists all the time.

932
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, if I like, like, I'm not going to.

933
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: Be grudge a single parent or a new parent or

934
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: somebody who is disabled, like, oh no, you have to

935
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: shop in this way, Like I personally might be able to,

936
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 2: you know, make certain economic choices that somebody else might

937
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: not be able to make, but they might have the

938
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 2: same sentiment like I do feel like we should be

939
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more, have a little bit more grace

940
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 2: for where folks are and are not able to show up.

941
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: And that comes back to community and the reason we

942
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 1: create this game in the first place. Like people don't

943
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: know their neighbors. So even the one day boycott where

944
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: it was like we're not spending any money, don't get gas,

945
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: don't do anything. Black people don't spend Well, if you

946
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: have to get to work and you don't have gas,

947
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: but you got to get to work so you cannot

948
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: lose your job, but feeds your baby, you got to

949
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: get gas. In an era where we had community, we

950
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: know our neighbors, what it meant to boycott was like

951
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: not only am I not going to drive. I got gas,

952
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: so says if you need a ride to work, I

953
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: got you. We don't have it anymore. We don't have

954
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: the neighbors and the grandmas and the aunties and the

955
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: uncles and the dazz the people to rely on to

956
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: help us through these situations. So people are wanting to

957
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: boycott for the good of the community, but then there's

958
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: no community to support them through that boycott. So I

959
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: think we have to be realistic, Like, before you say

960
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: anything to anybody to your point. I had a friend

961
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: literally text me it was like, girl, I had to

962
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: get diapers from Target.

963
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 4: It was half off.

964
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 5: It's right down the street.

965
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: And I was like, you don't have to apologize to me,

966
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: But unless you're willing to be the friend that's like,

967
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: don't go to Target. I got extra money in my

968
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: bank account. I'm gonna send you diapers this month, so

969
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about unless you're willing to

970
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: shoulder the responsibility so that we can all carry it together.

971
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: An aunt can't carry a cake by itself.

972
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 3: It just can't.

973
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: And I mean, you've you have this great quote saying

974
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: I'm boycotting not because I'm bitter, but because I want

975
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: my money and energy into spaces where diverse communities are

976
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: valued and included, not just black dollars.

977
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: What does that look like to you?

978
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: So for me, a lot of this has been shopping local.

979
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: So I live in Pasadena, try to go to the

980
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: farmer's market once or twice a week. And I think

981
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: I've mentioned like I know the people that I buy

982
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: my honey from. I know the people I buy my

983
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: yogurt from. I know the lady who I buy my

984
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: pasta from. I know what they believe. I know what

985
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: they're working towards in the world, or at least how

986
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: they appear. Can we ever really know somebody? You know?

987
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 5: Like, what are you doing in your secret life?

988
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: Oh?

989
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: No, but I know how you You know how you

990
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: show up. I know the conversations you're having.

991
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 5: I know that you know you.

992
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: Notice that same mom didn't have enough money and he

993
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: told her, don't worry about it. Get I got you

994
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: take it. I know that you'll give someone an extra

995
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: three or four yogurts because they've been such a loyal customer.

996
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: Like I know your heart posture, I know the care

997
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: that you have for your community. So I'm actually able

998
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: to put my money behind people who stand on business

999
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: for what they stand for, what they believe in, as

1000
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: opposed to some of these large companies that I've worked for.

1001
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: So many of them people are sitting in a room

1002
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: and they could care less about.

1003
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 5: You, or your mama or your cousin, and.

1004
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: So much of us. We make money to spend money.

1005
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: Like the value of money in and of itself is nothing,

1006
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: Like you can't it doesn't help you breathe, you can't

1007
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: hold dollar bills, And then all of a sudden you

1008
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: have clarity in your mind, maybe if it's psychological for you,

1009
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: but there's no actual value to money other than what

1010
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: it can afford you, like what can you buy with it?

1011
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: What can you do with it? What type of power

1012
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: does it give you? So the question becomes not the

1013
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: money itself, but what is the person who has the

1014
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: money planning to do with that money? And if some

1015
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: of these big businesses corporations, you know they're going to

1016
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: use the money to push forward narratives and political ideologies

1017
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: and things that are going to make the world a

1018
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: terrible place for you and everybody around you, it just

1019
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: feels incredibly irresponsible to some extent not try to boycott

1020
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: in a realistic way.

1021
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: Don't let anybody tell you that boycotts don't work, because

1022
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 2: Target is feeling it. The store had measurable drops and

1023
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 2: foot traffic, sales, reputation, and stock price. Their CEO, Brian Cornell,

1024
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 2: even had to take a pay cut. But don't worry,

1025
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: he's still making millions. Yeah, And I mean we have

1026
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 2: to keep it real. That sounds like the boycott is working.

1027
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: You know, foot traffic is down at Target. Their CEO

1028
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: is a whole mess of hot water.

1029
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 4: Because of all this.

1030
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: And I will say, like retail shopping is down like

1031
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: in general, but Costco is not having a rough time.

1032
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 2: And like when Trump wrote like was signaling that he

1033
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: wanted companies to abandon.

1034
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 4: DEI, Costco said kick rocks from the are doing fine.

1035
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: So like this was definitely a choice, and it seems

1036
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: to be a choice that it's not working out in

1037
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: Target's favor.

1038
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 4: And I think that speaks to the loyalty of real community.

1039
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 2: Like we I was a Target girly, Like I was

1040
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: the person who would go to Target if I was

1041
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: bored or just like wanted to be in the air conditioning,

1042
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,959
Speaker 2: but just see, like I want to walk around to see

1043
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: if they got a Target, I want to. I want

1044
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: to get a coffee and walk around Target like that

1045
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: was my happy place. And I guess this is interesting

1046
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: to me how quickly this thing that was so ingrained

1047
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 2: in my behavior became not needed, Like I don't miss it.

1048
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't. I've replaced it with other things.

1049
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: And part of me is that I probably shouldn't have

1050
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: been spending the money anyway. And I just like, I

1051
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 2: guess it's just like they really had something there and

1052
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: they gave it up for nothing, because I have no

1053
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: desire to go back into a Target. I don't even

1054
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: miss it.

1055
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: You create again normals what you're used to. So I

1056
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: think that at first it was like, well where are

1057
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: we gonna go? But you find your new routines. I get, I,

1058
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, get. We go to the farmer's market my

1059
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: house like twice a week. We have our vendors, we

1060
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: have our things, and I don't miss it either. I

1061
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: make my own coffee at home now I don't have

1062
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: to stop at Starbucks, and I'm saving money. So it's like,

1063
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: wait a second. In a lot of ways, this boycott

1064
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: is not just bad for you, it's financially economically and

1065
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: socially good for me.

1066
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 4: We're taking our power back a little bit.

1067
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, if this is a story about a breakup

1068
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: between me and Target, let's talk about the last time

1069
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: we saw each other. I walked by the local Target,

1070
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: the one where I'd enjoyed so many Target runs in

1071
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 2: the years before, and Target just looked kind of bad.

1072
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 2: I swear, I can't make this up. There was a

1073
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: cardboard cutout of country singer Morgan Wallen right at the entrance,

1074
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 2: advertising his newest country album, and I couldn't help but

1075
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: wonder hadn't Target and I really had a relationship at all?

1076
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: What had we even seen at each other? And the

1077
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 2: Target in my community is in like a shopping plaza.

1078
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 2: So I go into a big plaza and it's a

1079
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: Target and other things. So I walk by the Target

1080
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: still but I don't necessarily have to go in. And

1081
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: the last time that I walked by the Target, a

1082
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, they had this big stand with

1083
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: the country music artist Morgan Wallen, who, like, I don't

1084
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: know if you know him, he's I'll just say he yeah,

1085
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: He's known for some like, let's just say, racially insensitive

1086
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: behavior and comments and leave it at that. But I

1087
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 2: live in a majority, like a majority black neighborhood. I

1088
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: live in a heavily black city, and seeing these like

1089
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: massive Morgan Wallan stands like literally at the entrance of

1090
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: the store, it just made me think that Target used

1091
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: to be for the gals, gays and days, and now

1092
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: they don't know who they're for. Like I was like,

1093
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 2: it's not the white dads who listened to Morgan Wallen

1094
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: who are going to Target. Like it just made me think,

1095
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know that Target knows who they're

1096
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: for anymore.

1097
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 4: Did you get that.

1098
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 5: Sense and know it's very confusing?

1099
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I we got. We did give statistics about

1100
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: who's most likely to shop at Target, and it's women

1101
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: who are college educated, who have like one kid, I

1102
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: think at least one kids. Like their biggest audience. I'm

1103
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: your audience, Okay. I buy all your things. I buy

1104
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: the hair stuff I buy, I stop for groceries, I

1105
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: get the black owned stuff, I get stuff for my son.

1106
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 1: Pretty much everything in your store is something I would buy.

1107
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: So to me, again, it comes back to not the

1108
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: reason we created the card games, not knowing your community,

1109
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: not knowing people, not knowing what's going to affect them,

1110
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 1: what they care about, what they don't care about. I

1111
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: heard someone say, who's you know? Won't give me names?

1112
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: Pretty high up and people were worried about the boycotts

1113
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: and how it's going to affect business, and this high

1114
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 1: up white woman leader was like, uh, black people will

1115
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: forget about it, Like, give it a couple of weeks,

1116
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: they'll forget about they'll move on. And I'm like, you

1117
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: the audacity to think you know us so well? How

1118
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: dare you think you understand this, this movement and to

1119
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: feel like you know what's going to happen with it?

1120
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: And then you know, I do start to ask myself

1121
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: the hard questions. Is there a reason they feel like

1122
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: we're easily manipulated? Is there a reason they feel like

1123
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 1: we don't stand on business? Is it because we never

1124
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: fought for reparations? We've been letting White America get away

1125
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: with things for so long. We've let them tell us

1126
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: we have to wear straight hair in the workplace and

1127
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: not natural hair because our natural hair is aggressive, and

1128
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: we like, have we conceded too much to the point

1129
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: where they're like, you've already told me how to treat

1130
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: you so I'm just going to continue. Not that we

1131
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: should internalize it and say that it's our fault, but

1132
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: I have been asking myself the question like number one,

1133
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: where do you get the audacity? Number two? As a community, like,

1134
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: let's have a conversation. Are we contributing to that feeling

1135
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: of being able to bully us without us saying or

1136
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: doing anything about it.

1137
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: I know that you've been since the shift with Target,

1138
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: You've been reinvesting in like education spaces, community spaces. How

1139
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 2: can folks support you? How can they support your work?

1140
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 2: Where can they get the book?

1141
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 4: Like? How can folks show up for you as a creator?

1142
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so my book therapy is and just for white people.

1143
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: If you're not shopping on Amazon or Barnes and Nobles,

1144
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: they've had their own. Everybody has a thing right now.

1145
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: A lot of black owed bookstores also have access to

1146
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: the book, or you can call your black home bookstore

1147
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: and ask them to get the book. Tons of the

1148
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: black home bookstores in LA have the book, so you know,

1149
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: shop according to your preference.

1150
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 5: Target.

1151
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: Please don't We're not I think we're still listed. But

1152
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: they just as like out of stock recently set out

1153
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: of stock. Either they actually sold out or they were like, Ooh,

1154
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: this girl's talking too much.

1155
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 5: Take that product off the shelf.

1156
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: You can go to our website l ik eu likeucards

1157
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: dot com, we have our flagship game. We have games

1158
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: for parents. As you mentioned, we're trying to do more

1159
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: stuff with kids because I think at the end of

1160
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: the day, if we're going to shape the next generation,

1161
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: how we shape the people growing up is so important.

1162
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: So our kids game really helps parents step into their

1163
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: kids psychological world and to get on their level and

1164
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: to not make assumptions about how they see the world

1165
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: and to really hear them. So that's also available on

1166
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: our website and stay tuned. We have some other fun

1167
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: ideas coming down the pipeline and just playing with new

1168
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: ways to bring the community together. Everything we do comes

1169
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: back to the same goal of bringing community together.

1170
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 2: Community has been such a big theme of this conversation.

1171
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 2: Do you have any closing thoughts about community that you'd

1172
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: like to leave folks with.

1173
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: In order to be part of the community. I do

1174
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: think it starts with ourselves, and a huge part of

1175
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: that is how you interact with your neighbor. So if

1176
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: we're going to get to this next phase of like

1177
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: coming together to like make a change. You see your

1178
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: neighbor outside, wave say hi. If they don't wave back,

1179
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: don't feeling well, that's my I'm never waving again because

1180
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: they didn't acknowledge me and you're not the center of

1181
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: the world.

1182
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 5: Maybe they just found out their mom has cancer.

1183
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: You know, like give people brace that find ways to

1184
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: connect and ways that also are allowing people to show

1185
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: up as humans, not as these perfectly like robots.

1186
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 5: I don't know, that's all. That's all I got.

1187
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1188
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: just want to say hi? You can reach us at

1189
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts

1190
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

1191
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.

1192
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed. Creative Jonathan Strickland

1193
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and

1194
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

1195
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 2: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

1196
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: and review.

1197
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 3: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1198
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app

1199
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts,