Speaker 1: Look man, oh I see you? Why and look over there?
Speaker 1: How is that? Culture? Yes? Goodness ding dong lost culture
Speaker 1: racist calling already Bone is killing me? He's killing me. No, no,
Speaker 1: you are the one who is killing me. There was drama,
Speaker 1: and there was drama at the beginning of the recording. Okay,
Speaker 1: trust and believe there will be an I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: to reckon with what just happened later in the episode
Speaker 1: to be continued on that one there. All I can
Speaker 1: say is I must be in Los Angeles and the
Speaker 1: reverberations of the Golden Globes must be in the air
Speaker 1: because it's drama in the apartment when I couldn't get
Speaker 1: my zoom to work. And I must be in New
Speaker 1: York where we had the Rainbow Room, which was by
Speaker 1: far the hotter room between the two coasts. Okay, we
Speaker 1: can actually get into it right now because Amy Poehler
Speaker 1: was looking absolutely stunning. Oh um, And and Tina, Tina
Speaker 1: is glamor sold her soul years ago. Who's old your soul?
Speaker 1: You don't go from writer's room, SNL do not No,
Speaker 1: no's not Glamazon. That's not without some agathe All along,
Speaker 1: there was some episode no, no, honey, don't do this.
Speaker 1: I'm saying that. This is what I'm saying that trash
Speaker 1: had some glamor. I didn't trash. I didn't trash. I
Speaker 1: didn't trash. There wasn't deal with Yeah, that's exactly what
Speaker 1: Hollywood is all about, Honey, years ago, Honey, you made
Speaker 1: it before you even left the wound. God, damn, goddamn right.
Speaker 1: I made a deal with the devil because I knew
Speaker 1: exactly what industry I was getting into, and I knew
Speaker 1: it from birth. So I made my deal with the
Speaker 1: devil long ago. You think I just looked like this.
Speaker 1: We were on two separate tracks because I thought you
Speaker 1: were gonna bring up how that whole broadcast was a
Speaker 1: train wreck, which it was. I thought. I did not
Speaker 1: think it was a train wreck. And that's you reading
Speaker 1: Tina and Amy. I'm not reading. That is not a
Speaker 1: read on Tina Amy. That is a read on there
Speaker 1: the host. That means they're in charge of the podcast,
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't you know anything're calling cuts. They
Speaker 1: were the ones who wanted that those crazy ass bumpers
Speaker 1: where that you had all all nominees in the same
Speaker 1: zoom being like HI made those calls. They were calling
Speaker 1: the cuts as you say, what what do you have
Speaker 1: to say about Amy? Keep going and the whole time
Speaker 1: about I'm just saying she looked incredible and Amy didn't
Speaker 1: make a deal with the devil? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1: They both made deals with the devil? I'm just saying
Speaker 1: Amy's it feels just a little bit more recent, That's all.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know about any of this
Speaker 1: stupid horror. Oh. I was commenting on it, the fact
Speaker 1: that we know that Tina is sort of glamour, like
Speaker 1: she's sort of been glamour, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And Amy has been a beautiful blonde woman her whole career. Like,
Speaker 1: what are you trying to say transformation? I don't I'm
Speaker 1: just saying it became apparent last Nights Glamor in a
Speaker 1: way that wallopped me. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Amy is glamour tonight. I wasn't surprised, Simmer surprised ever
Speaker 1: to see Tina arrive and be glamour, because I feel
Speaker 1: Tina is glamour, yes, but both of these people have
Speaker 1: had people they pay or who are who picked out
Speaker 1: closed for them as well. You understand. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: know who else gets close picked out for her, Margot Robbie.
Speaker 1: And that didn't stop her at showing up in the
Speaker 1: fucking whatever that was last night. Our guests just rolled
Speaker 1: her fucking eyes because she knows that's the biggest drag
Speaker 1: of them all. Margot Robbie was there for what did
Speaker 1: she resent? A major award at the Hollywood Foreign Press
Speaker 1: Association's Golden Global Okay, I don't know about any of it.
Speaker 1: She looked like she came from I think Rose even
Speaker 1: said the word reformation. The word reformation jumped out and
Speaker 1: she's and she's and she's covering her mouth. But we
Speaker 1: don't know. She doesn't exist yet, okay, because she hasn't
Speaker 1: been yet. I haven't checked in with you, I think
Speaker 1: since last week. I not checked him with you in
Speaker 1: a while. I've missed you very dearly. Oh but we
Speaker 1: we didn't ide you live together. It's very fun. We
Speaker 1: touched space, um, and that was really that was a
Speaker 1: really fun time. It was a highlight of the week.
Speaker 1: And I am revealed to you that I'm depressed. But
Speaker 1: that's okay, you know, um, that is okay. Yes, and yeah,
Speaker 1: and and thank you for saying, now you can take
Speaker 1: a little break. If I am the new face of depression,
Speaker 1: I mean, sign me up. Can I say something to you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't look depressed? That is okay, good, good, very good.
Speaker 1: I don't know what now that might be controversial because
Speaker 1: does depression have a look. I was going to ask you,
Speaker 1: but what about me doesn't make me look depressed? Skins
Speaker 1: popping off your hair is a beautiful curl you look like.
Speaker 1: Can I say something? Yeah, you look like you've had sex.
Speaker 1: I have not had sex. You have. I have not
Speaker 1: had sex out there? This no, I have not. This
Speaker 1: is what is this crazy entered you are bringing in?
Speaker 1: I just want just because I'm not reticent and I'm
Speaker 1: willing to sort of just go with the flow. And
Speaker 1: I'm not a caged bird like you. You're caged. You're caged.
Speaker 1: I just watched I just watched. Let's just say this.
Speaker 1: We can We're not gonna talk about it, but I
Speaker 1: just watched. I just watched a film called I Care
Speaker 1: a Lot, and I'm all fired up. All I will say,
Speaker 1: but I care a Lot. I have not seen it.
Speaker 1: I hear I hear things about it. I thought Rosman
Speaker 1: Pike speech was bonkers wild, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? She was like thank you to the broken
Speaker 1: American economy or whatever American legal system, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, what is what is this? This woman clear?
Speaker 1: And I thought back, like, gone, girl, Maybe that was
Speaker 1: great casting because I was like, there's there's there's there's
Speaker 1: something amiss there with with that, well, more on this
Speaker 1: next week, more on this next week. That's It's what
Speaker 1: we call a teaser to be continued. To be sure,
Speaker 1: I'll have I'll have seen it by then. Um, what
Speaker 1: else did I want to say? Oh? Um, just finished
Speaker 1: Nomad Land today, really love Did did did you watch it? I?
Speaker 1: That's on my list. I you know what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: watch tonight is the United States Versus Billy Holiday because
Speaker 1: of andre Day's surprise big W. Last that was that
Speaker 1: was the big W And then um, we did reveal
Speaker 1: to people on the live the moment, which which I
Speaker 1: thought was very would be only shared between you and
Speaker 1: I for the rest of our lives. But the moment
Speaker 1: of you and I meeting Mulan I have caught in
Speaker 1: the China pavilion and her saying to us said, would
Speaker 1: you like me to say? I would like you to
Speaker 1: say it. Okay, this is what she said to us,
Speaker 1: and this is not made up. A lot of people
Speaker 1: I e BO and are saying this is made up,
Speaker 1: that she didn't quote unquote say like that. But this
Speaker 1: is what she did. Dave Bowen and myself, we're given
Speaker 1: the opportunity to lan and take a photo with her
Speaker 1: at the Reflections of China Pavilion. Yes, we went in
Speaker 1: met her, lovely girl. Simply she asked us to take
Speaker 1: a combat position with her for the photographer. The photograph
Speaker 1: I've been talking about, which very suspiciously we can't find.
Speaker 1: I had my thoughts your phone. Anyway, moving on from
Speaker 1: that conversation because it will get too heated. And here's
Speaker 1: what happened. We took the photo. She turned to us
Speaker 1: and said the following, you will be amazing warriors. You
Speaker 1: will be amazing warriors. So I'm gonna lose it. You
Speaker 1: are gaslighting me. You are gaslighting And we were we
Speaker 1: were going to work a word for it. Now we
Speaker 1: were stop. We were so stoned out of our minds.
Speaker 1: So that's when you that's when things that's when since
Speaker 1: memory really hits. Oh my god, I don't know a fool.
Speaker 1: You're a fool. Okay, you know what, Let's bring our
Speaker 1: our warrior in. And she is a warrior. She is
Speaker 1: a warrior. She is a warrior for the culture. This
Speaker 1: is someone whose opinion. This is not putting you know,
Speaker 1: this is not sort of davifying her too much, But
Speaker 1: this is someone whose opinion I always always want. I
Speaker 1: always want her take on something. I'm always saying this
Speaker 1: whenever I read the opinion, I'm saying, yes, yes, yes, um.
Speaker 1: I think she is truly a vital, vital, vital presence
Speaker 1: for the culture I have. I have a deep respect
Speaker 1: for anyone who would sort of look into the eyes
Speaker 1: of Timothy Charlotte May and say, how does it feel
Speaker 1: to be king of the Twinks? You don't understand. You
Speaker 1: think you're going to be brave enough to do it,
Speaker 1: but then you get into the position of it, and
Speaker 1: very feel would feel she is one of the few,
Speaker 1: and asked him if he or I think I think
Speaker 1: I somehow Moonstruck came up and we got out of
Speaker 1: Timothy show me that he loves Moonstruck and his own accord.
Speaker 1: He said, oh my god, amazing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I trust him on that one. I think he heard
Speaker 1: the word shared almost like moonstruck. I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of what happens. But I'm happy that I believe that
Speaker 1: he enjoys it. Um iconic interviews with Samahayak with a
Speaker 1: cast of Wine Country just so well, we'll ask her
Speaker 1: her opinion. Um. She used to be a senior staff
Speaker 1: writer at Out magazine. Now she works in editorial at Netflix.
Speaker 1: We are so excited to have her. Oh everyone, please
Speaker 1: welcome Rose. Hi, Hi, It's so nice to be here. Um.
Speaker 1: Hopefully this finally gets me verified on Instagram? Come on,
Speaker 1: what the hell is? Did you? Transphobia? Would absolutely aboutely
Speaker 1: what because like, I don't understand. I think Instagram is
Speaker 1: starting to turn into Twitter where it's like the verification
Speaker 1: criteria are all over the place and I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like Rose, damn you is like you need to
Speaker 1: give her that blue check. It's telling to me that
Speaker 1: you aspire to blue check hood thank you. I do
Speaker 1: think it is toxic that it's something that I aspire to.
Speaker 1: I'm not calling it out. I'm not calling it out,
Speaker 1: but you aren't you? But no, I would say it's
Speaker 1: an iconic first line on the podcast, thank you. I
Speaker 1: hope this gets me verified on Instagram. I think, to me,
Speaker 1: that's that you are without peer as far as first
Speaker 1: lines go. I mean, it's the reason I'm here. You
Speaker 1: know I'm here. And I do want to talk about
Speaker 1: the SNL to being a hot pipeline because the because
Speaker 1: the reason I'm finally here today is because I d
Speaker 1: M Bowen and told him he looked hot in a
Speaker 1: photo and photo, um, your photo, your Christian Cohen photo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of a suddenly he gets in Christian cow and ship,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and said you look hot,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm being invited to record
Speaker 1: less culture. It's interesting. That's not the that's a correlation.
Speaker 1: It's not causation or whatever it is. I don't know
Speaker 1: about this. All I'm saying, look, and now you're going
Speaker 1: to try to like pivot, but you can't deny there
Speaker 1: there is an SNL to being hot pipeline. We've seen
Speaker 1: it happen Kristen Wig all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: not not she probably was always stunning, but now she's
Speaker 1: like publicly stunning. You know what I'm saying, you're publicly stu.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that all I'm saying is that
Speaker 1: Bowen is hot. That's very nice. We can deal with
Speaker 1: that here. We can't deal with every with everyone else here,
Speaker 1: but we can deal with Bowen being hot here in
Speaker 1: this episode. I I just want Rose to to say,
Speaker 1: once and for all, did A Tena and Amy sell
Speaker 1: their souls as the Devil? Um? I can't business affair.
Speaker 1: There's a conflict of interest, and honestly, the Devil has
Speaker 1: QUI okay, okay, okay, I talked about contracts. Um no,
Speaker 1: Well listen, the Devil's all up in it lately. Because
Speaker 1: you'll notice that there's lots of witchcraft happening on one division.
Speaker 1: And I am actually most thrilled you are here because
Speaker 1: of course, yes, and we've had we've had months of
Speaker 1: sort of witchcraft like looming in the background because Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift is sort of she's peeling back the layers that
Speaker 1: are sort of revealing that all along, if you will,
Speaker 1: she's been kind of a witch and now she's got
Speaker 1: like I think it was it probably was you who
Speaker 1: said fucking um Cardigan Agatha all along remix, which I
Speaker 1: thought was a great tie in because the Devil is
Speaker 1: very present and a lot of media happening because witchcraft
Speaker 1: is president and a lot of people want to sort
Speaker 1: of separate witchcraft from the devil, but they're actually intimately intertwined.
Speaker 1: We are the granddaughters of the witches you didn't burn,
Speaker 1: should have, should have took care of us in the beginning.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really happy that witchcraft is back in the
Speaker 1: cultural zeitgeist because I definitely identify as a witch and
Speaker 1: witchcraft was very formative to my um cultural consciousness and
Speaker 1: remains so to this day, and so I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to see it in you know, Wan Division. In a
Speaker 1: lot of we have a lot of like witchy Lili
Speaker 1: Fair adjacent musicians right now. I'd been to Phoebe Bridgers lately,
Speaker 1: like fucking everyone, um and um. I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that I appreciate the most about One
Speaker 1: Division is that, like the m c U has always
Speaker 1: been kind of unwilling to be fully magical and not like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, they're just sucking witches. Witch. Hi just jumping
Speaker 1: in here to say that if you do not want
Speaker 1: spoilers for One Division, if you're not caught up, you
Speaker 1: can go ahead and skip to twenty and then from
Speaker 1: there on out there's really not that much revealed, all right.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to check in before we absolutely spoiled
Speaker 1: one division, which is starting now. Yeah, and what do
Speaker 1: you So there's been some response to I guess after
Speaker 1: the reveal of Catherine Hahn being a witch, and then
Speaker 1: they did in spoiler alert in episode eight they sort
Speaker 1: of revealed Katherine hans witchy origin story. Honey, right on,
Speaker 1: what a what a unique origin story for a witch? Salem, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: one year after the Witch trials. So you can actually
Speaker 1: Giles Corey is ChIL s right off screen. Giles Corey
Speaker 1: was actually shook, shaking, Yeah, he was shaking. Queen Miss
Speaker 1: Giles was inconsolable, uncontrollable. But wait what I did laugh
Speaker 1: when it said Salem as sixty nine three. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: not only is it witches? I let out what can
Speaker 1: only be described as a witchy cackle in that font,
Speaker 1: in that typeface. That's like, now, what is this? What
Speaker 1: is this response? In comic sandschutt. But this is my thing, though,
Speaker 1: and this is this is what I this is sort
Speaker 1: of my response to what I feel is sort of
Speaker 1: a criticism all of a sudden of Katherine Hann in
Speaker 1: this last episode that she's sort of a few people
Speaker 1: I know were talking about like, oh, well, I didn't
Speaker 1: really get like a good villain from her, Like I
Speaker 1: I was feeling like, um, it didn't feel like she
Speaker 1: was like in her bones in the way that she
Speaker 1: was in the other episode. I'm like, girl, no, she
Speaker 1: was giving you like cookie, which, like I think it's
Speaker 1: her job to not only be like sort of like
Speaker 1: you know, an antagonist that tracks with what she's been doing,
Speaker 1: but also to be like a little bit of a
Speaker 1: cookie which because it's a cookie show that's sorry but
Speaker 1: for kids, you know what I mean. You're talking about
Speaker 1: the Disney that you're talking about the Disney plus of
Speaker 1: it all. Duh. And it's also based on a comic book,
Speaker 1: very very true. That's obviously like she's obviously serving Halloween
Speaker 1: Town to Calimbar's revenge realness, Like, yes, but Matt, you
Speaker 1: had brought up how it was it did not track
Speaker 1: with the past episodes that she was asking about, like
Speaker 1: like like Wanda's deal when she was like being very
Speaker 1: aware of the stuff. But then everyone but now everyone
Speaker 1: saying that like she's been trapped in the hecks, like
Speaker 1: she happened to be there and she's another person who
Speaker 1: has these powers, and now she's like trying to figure
Speaker 1: it out. This is my understanding. And then Rose, I,
Speaker 1: I do sort of think of you as like an authority,
Speaker 1: an authority on this, So just tell me. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you my understanding. You tell me if attracted with
Speaker 1: your understanding. My understanding is after watching the episode a
Speaker 1: second time, not high as ship and not at midnight,
Speaker 1: which Rose told me is an insane thing for me
Speaker 1: to do. Absolutely absolutely nuts. Okay, I personally like the anticipation.
Speaker 1: I like waiting all day for it. You like to edge.
Speaker 1: I don't see like I'm the kind of person that's like,
Speaker 1: if I know I'm having someone over to have sex,
Speaker 1: I've already jacked off four times that day because I
Speaker 1: was too excited, you know what I mean. Like it's
Speaker 1: gotten me in trouble before, and so with one division,
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm not gonna wait till six pm on Friday,
Speaker 1: it's's not gonna happen. So for me, this is my
Speaker 1: understanding of it. So when I watched it sober, I understood.
Speaker 1: So basically she was able to sense all this magic happening.
Speaker 1: Agatha hardiness. She arrived at the Hex where she was
Speaker 1: able to enter the Hex no problem and sort of
Speaker 1: participated in Wanda's alternate reality that she had created to
Speaker 1: sort of figure out what her deal was. All along,
Speaker 1: she was sort of putting things in Wanda's way that
Speaker 1: we're like the episodes conflicts in order to trip her
Speaker 1: up and sort of get her to reveal how she
Speaker 1: did this who she really was. So so my prior
Speaker 1: concern that if it was Agatha all along, why did
Speaker 1: she have so many questions is now quelled because I
Speaker 1: understand that it was sort of her all along in
Speaker 1: that things that were bubbling up and causing problems for
Speaker 1: Wander We're Agatha all along, but the reality was Wanda's creation.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah? That tracks for me from
Speaker 1: what from my understanding And listen, like I I am
Speaker 1: not like I'm like a wik I have the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: knowledge of this. Everyone does. Like I love X Men,
Speaker 1: I love the m c U, but like, I'm not
Speaker 1: a deep comics girl. But from my understanding, it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, Agatha was off doing her witchy scenario somewhere
Speaker 1: and you know, this huge magic moment happened, and she
Speaker 1: was very like, what was that? It was Wendy Williams.
Speaker 1: She did a win. It was and you know the
Speaker 1: sort of what what's more of a spooky facing the
Speaker 1: crowd of your audience than an alternate reality being created
Speaker 1: by some exactly. So she was like, something's happening over there.
Speaker 1: Gotta get there immediately, see what's over there. And also
Speaker 1: I think it's very telling that her her intro scene
Speaker 1: was like about her a like wanting knowledge that was,
Speaker 1: you know, like not hers, and also sucking the literal
Speaker 1: powers out of other people. So she was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: there's this huge, you know, source of mystical whatever Shenanigan's
Speaker 1: happening over here. Let's go see about that. And then
Speaker 1: once she realized what was going on, she was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to play the long con and get deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper and figure out what the real true ty
Speaker 1: is and then manipulate it to my benefit. Oh and
Speaker 1: now she's she might she's gonna have to suck on
Speaker 1: that one. She might have to suck the powers of
Speaker 1: she you think she's going to try to suck Wanda,
Speaker 1: And I think she's trying to like bait, She's trying
Speaker 1: to bait Wanda into a battle so that she can
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the old up. Wait, this is this
Speaker 1: week the finale. I'm I'm hearing it's nine. It's nine.
Speaker 1: I'm so upset. I don't know about that. For salt
Speaker 1: Lake to end and then this to now end feels
Speaker 1: it's cruel. It feels like a cruel homophobic salt Lake.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts, I, you know, I was just as excited
Speaker 1: as everyone when it started. I thought it had such
Speaker 1: a great opening first couple of episodes, and then it
Speaker 1: low key fell off for me around episode six seven.
Speaker 1: I just was not interested. I wasn't connecting with any
Speaker 1: of them, and it just wasn't working for me. I
Speaker 1: can figure out pretty quickly if a Housewives City is
Speaker 1: for me, and that's just like, wasn't it. I find
Speaker 1: that very interesting because I feel like I don't know
Speaker 1: if I like a house If City or not until
Speaker 1: like I'm in the third season of watching it, and
Speaker 1: so like, what what makes it? What like what made it?
Speaker 1: What makes it good or bad? To you? Do you do?
Speaker 1: You know? You're there was no clear protagonist for me,
Speaker 1: or no clear fun antagonist for me. I think I
Speaker 1: believe that you need to check back in because I
Speaker 1: always think because I get it, because at at the
Speaker 1: point where you're saying you fell off, I was also
Speaker 1: less than enthused. And then there was one episode that
Speaker 1: came back when they went on a trip, which you
Speaker 1: always got to let the girls go on a trip
Speaker 1: before you decide to bail, and I think you gotta
Speaker 1: at least get to the to the reunion to see
Speaker 1: how it goes. They went to Vegas ship went down
Speaker 1: to me, it was peak Housewives. And then there was
Speaker 1: I would say two and a half out the three
Speaker 1: reunion episodes were like peak Housewives reunions. I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I might just go watch the reunions because they give
Speaker 1: you the clip packages, so you basically get to see
Speaker 1: the entire season, like just the good parts of it,
Speaker 1: right right, So maybe I'll do that. Well, I think
Speaker 1: the reunion actually went easy on Jen, who was the
Speaker 1: big antagonist of the of the Vegas trip, And so
Speaker 1: I would say, what, yes, yes, I agree, Like usually
Speaker 1: if I'm ever trying to catch up on a Housewives,
Speaker 1: I'll just watch the reunions, but I think with this
Speaker 1: particular one, you gotta watch that that second episode of
Speaker 1: the Vegas trip and then go to the reunions and
Speaker 1: it's not Look, it's not too much time. That's true.
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping that if Law on Division
Speaker 1: had been longer, they would eventually have gotten to a
Speaker 1: Housewives episode, you know, like like every TV format, Like
Speaker 1: yeah that, I mean, Katherine Han as a Housewives antagonist
Speaker 1: would have been Can you imagine Catherine Hana like a
Speaker 1: n A wig. I absolutely can. I can see it
Speaker 1: vividly in my head right now. Me too. I'm bummed
Speaker 1: that we won't get that. Maybe. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: they're saying I think Kevin figgy Um, who's like the
Speaker 1: Marvel the Queen, he said like I think he said
Speaker 1: in an interview, like there's it could continue, even though
Speaker 1: like I think this whole show exists as a way
Speaker 1: to set up the next Doctor Strange, which I have
Speaker 1: not seen the first Doctor Strange me neither can't. Now,
Speaker 1: now let's just take a quick strub hole here. Can
Speaker 1: we get it up for Benedict come not personally, but
Speaker 1: that's okay. I I trust that people. I trust that
Speaker 1: he's an attractive person to pe people absolutely. I mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to respect a lot of people are saying
Speaker 1: that I kind of saw it for him back in
Speaker 1: the Sherlock days. Yes, first season of Sherlock, which is
Speaker 1: the only season I've seen, I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: good for him. But now that he's just sort of
Speaker 1: phenomenal way is well, yeah, we're It's like Ben in
Speaker 1: the cumber Batch is a phenomenon in terms of people
Speaker 1: being attracted to him. I'm like that that doesn't fully
Speaker 1: um work or makes sense to me, but I respect it.
Speaker 1: The doctor Strange drag definitely works against him. Oh interesting,
Speaker 1: that's my problem with I guess the m c U
Speaker 1: is like when they show up in their costumes, I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: come on, that's the whole thing she is that. I
Speaker 1: was like, come on. But I also feel like that's
Speaker 1: kind of what's been the problem. I think that's what
Speaker 1: it's what's been the problem with Wanda is she's always
Speaker 1: like showing up to the fight in a fucking like um,
Speaker 1: I mean, in the Age of Ultron, she's wearing like
Speaker 1: literally like a Forever twenty one mini dress and like
Speaker 1: topic jacket. Now we might finally get like an iconic
Speaker 1: superhero lost. Yeah, Scarlett is pretty top not. It is
Speaker 1: the look. It is the look, and we got a
Speaker 1: little preview of it when she sort of looked into
Speaker 1: the mindstone and saw her future incarnation. Yes, that she
Speaker 1: did look still a sickening. That was a great moment.
Speaker 1: That was sickening. Oh my god, bo hot, fuck shit.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you both something. I've asked this
Speaker 1: a million in a million different ways, two people. This
Speaker 1: is not a new thing. I just find that it
Speaker 1: gets more and more overwhelming, Like how are you but
Speaker 1: either of you like consuming things now? Because I feel
Speaker 1: like there's I can't keep up. Like today, I was
Speaker 1: just I just had the random thought I was doing
Speaker 1: the dishes or whatever, and I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: guess I gotta watch It's a sin Like I'm like,
Speaker 1: I guess like there's just like other two dues that
Speaker 1: like work their way into like my everyday like tasks
Speaker 1: now that I'm like I have I should do that.
Speaker 1: I should watch that thing, which like, at a certain point,
Speaker 1: one Division became bring me like, I like I would
Speaker 1: go into work on Friday's and not have like and
Speaker 1: have a lot of downtime and be like, I guess
Speaker 1: I'll watch one Division because it's a thing to get
Speaker 1: off my to do list. Are we are is that
Speaker 1: am I? Am I alone? And I think, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: you're You're asking like, how do you how do you
Speaker 1: put on your item? Work? What what you how are
Speaker 1: you how are you working into your days? Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that a fair question? Yeah? I mean I think
Speaker 1: my my well, first of all, like the the impetus
Speaker 1: for me to watch things is not like, uh, it's
Speaker 1: more like what part of the cultural conversation do I
Speaker 1: want to be on? And on UM? And also like
Speaker 1: what am I actually enthusiastic about watching UM? But also
Speaker 1: these days, at the end of the day, I just
Speaker 1: need to like check out and usually watch something pretty mindless.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm currently working my way back through old
Speaker 1: seasons of Top Model, like season four, so like so iconic,
Speaker 1: one of the craziest seasons of reality TV in history.
Speaker 1: I mean, everything happens that season. It's the the girl fainting,
Speaker 1: the black face photo shoot challenge, right, it's um the uh,
Speaker 1: it's really it really has everything. Um yeah, the girl
Speaker 1: fainting was the episode before, UM the Quietivity, I think
Speaker 1: that was the episode before. I think there's a maybe
Speaker 1: like two in between them, like one two in between them,
Speaker 1: got it? Got it? But yeah, you're right, like everything
Speaker 1: that that girl fainting and tiras they cut to Tira
Speaker 1: just standing there looking shocked and horrified but not moving,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't she doesn't do anything anything. She was
Speaker 1: primarily worried about ruining the take. She was like, do
Speaker 1: we got that right? Because she felt she was concerned.
Speaker 1: But like every every gift from Top Model comes from
Speaker 1: season four? Yeah, is that is that? But make it
Speaker 1: fashion or no? Is it that season? That's gonna be
Speaker 1: from something earlier or later? It doesn't matter. I think
Speaker 1: it's it might be later. I'm on cycle seven now. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the reason you can, the reason we can just
Speaker 1: know you were on four and now you're on seven
Speaker 1: is because they go by like that talk about mindless.
Speaker 1: You don't need a brain to watch it, No, and
Speaker 1: you can and you can, like you can check out
Speaker 1: so much, right, you know, I actually tried watching nine
Speaker 1: Fiance because of this podcast. I watched an entire season
Speaker 1: of it. Oh my gosh, And what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand that there's a need for breaks.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it wasn't for me, Okay, I like, you know,
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed the experience of watching it. I watched UM
Speaker 1: I think season two because that's what a Vulture article
Speaker 1: told me with UM, and I watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I like, had a good time, but ultimately I was like,
Speaker 1: I think I'm good. I respect that. And you know,
Speaker 1: the reason I watched it was because Bowen threatened me
Speaker 1: with the dissolution of our friendship if I did not,
Speaker 1: and so I think that we roll the tape. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna Lisa Barlow roll the tape. That's what happened. So
Speaker 1: basically I watched it, and what turned me off was
Speaker 1: the ninety minute episodes of it all. They were too long.
Speaker 1: Stop watching drag Race, then, honey that well do you
Speaker 1: so wait do you feel the drag Race episodes are
Speaker 1: too long? Well, it's it's it's there too you long
Speaker 1: and then untucked right after it. I usually two hours. Well,
Speaker 1: because I you know, I've been doing like Friday Night
Speaker 1: one drag Race into one Division, and so by the
Speaker 1: end of the episode of drag Race, I'm like, we
Speaker 1: got I get to Wan Division, I'll watched on Tuck
Speaker 1: when I get to it. I feel like that's crazy
Speaker 1: because the thing is, you could have watched One Division
Speaker 1: the night before at mid absolute night. It's crazy friend,
Speaker 1: and it's like the one social thing. It's Friday night.
Speaker 1: It's Friday night in the Pandemic and we're watching drag Race.
Speaker 1: It's t G I F Honey. Wait, actually that's a
Speaker 1: real culture. It's really culture number one hundred and four
Speaker 1: T honey. Yes, but wait, it's actually interesting you say
Speaker 1: this thing about the mindlessness of it all because Bow
Speaker 1: and I don't know about you, but I actually had
Speaker 1: a bunch of people reach out after our last episode
Speaker 1: saying they felt seen by us, saying that it was
Speaker 1: hard to watch things that are challenging nowadays because of
Speaker 1: the day to day of life and just it's I
Speaker 1: felt I felt very similarly to you Rose, where it's
Speaker 1: like I can't push myself into a place where I'm
Speaker 1: a thinking too hard or be feeling too much because
Speaker 1: it will ruin like a stasis that I've got down
Speaker 1: at this point, you know what I mean. It's kind
Speaker 1: of why I've started to finally get into TikTok, because
Speaker 1: that is the most absolute mindless things that you can
Speaker 1: do but still high enjoyment. Oh so fun I it's
Speaker 1: so funny. There are some there's this one girl, there's
Speaker 1: this one girl on there who does this series called
Speaker 1: Baked Takes, and it's like, um, like, which Mama me
Speaker 1: a character she would want to go bowling with and
Speaker 1: ship like that. It's it's like so funny and people
Speaker 1: on there are so creative, but also the algorithm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like new to TikTok, so I feel like the
Speaker 1: algorithm is trying to figure me out, so you know,
Speaker 1: it would like serve me things that I liked or
Speaker 1: searched for um. And so for a while it was
Speaker 1: like lesbians and Twilight um, and then I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now let's start looking at one division now, like every
Speaker 1: other TikTok is, and they're all like the same theory
Speaker 1: over and over again. They're like and the theories are
Speaker 1: always so dumb to like, I think Wanda might be
Speaker 1: the superhero known as Scarlet Scarlett, which like when people
Speaker 1: when what when like the pulpe of Agatha at the
Speaker 1: end of the episode being like, this is chaos magic
Speaker 1: Wanda that makes you period, period period, the Scarlet Witch,
Speaker 1: and people who are like we finally heard that she's
Speaker 1: a scarlet which it's like, girl, she's been credited as
Speaker 1: a Scarlette, which like on the movie's credits, like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't think she has I think she never liked
Speaker 1: in the Wikipedia, it's like Wanda maximum slash Callet, which
Speaker 1: like we know who she is, sure, but because of
Speaker 1: the whole twenty three Fox owning x Or is like
Speaker 1: what it is they weren't allowed to call or scarlet,
Speaker 1: which until now, like it's it's a whole, like that's
Speaker 1: why they were red cons to not even be mute. Yes, yes, right,
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right, right, Okay, I got that, got
Speaker 1: Um it is funny. Um. But I just so a
Speaker 1: couple of things I want to say. One division is
Speaker 1: not challenging to me at all, and I do find
Speaker 1: it enjoyable for that reason. Um. And in terms of
Speaker 1: the algorithm, this is not TikTok, but well, for it's
Speaker 1: been a while, I've had tik talk for like two
Speaker 1: years at this point, the algorithm still doesn't know what
Speaker 1: I like. And the Instagram and the Instagram algorithm, at
Speaker 1: least on my discover page is all drag race stuff,
Speaker 1: as if I was like the world's biggest drag race fan,
Speaker 1: and I'm not. I'm like, it's such an oversimplification of
Speaker 1: like who I am and maybe I am that dumb
Speaker 1: of a person. Not dumb, but just like that's simple,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, maybe the algorithms are not as
Speaker 1: powerful as we think. I mean, they will get better,
Speaker 1: but I'm just like, oh, like I feel kind of
Speaker 1: ashamed that i'm too I'm too simple for the algorithms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes your Explorer page starts to feel like a read yeah,
Speaker 1: big time, big time always, but like I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: not this person, no, and it's unfortunately mine. It's just
Speaker 1: like I'll go to my Explore page and it will
Speaker 1: just be like essentially softcore porn, and then then I'll
Speaker 1: just feel like shit because I'll just be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: yeah it does. And this is where I think that
Speaker 1: you're wrong about And I think that doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: too simpler, too stupid that like most no, no, what
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that Instagram cannot figure you out,
Speaker 1: which makes you have power over it because you are
Speaker 1: not some drag race super fan, and I know that
Speaker 1: you are on Instagram all the time. So the fact
Speaker 1: that like you're on Instagram all the time, you're on
Speaker 1: your phone all the time, and instaes like I don't
Speaker 1: know send him a Nina Bonina Brown doing makeup. It's
Speaker 1: SENTI It's it's literally rankings of how many UM followers,
Speaker 1: uh the season six queens have. It's like, why would
Speaker 1: I want to know that? It's infographics of like vintage
Speaker 1: drag Race seasons and imagine we actually like cut to
Speaker 1: cut to like an avoider look on Bowen's life and
Speaker 1: it is just him looking up like Trinity cable a
Speaker 1: all day. That would be fun. I would like, I
Speaker 1: would love that life. But I think that that means
Speaker 1: that you have superior already over the app, which is
Speaker 1: absolutely huge, and meanwhile it's it's reading me like a
Speaker 1: fucking book. But also like who uses the Explore page? Right?
Speaker 1: I don't. I barely even check my feed. I just
Speaker 1: like sometimes watch Instagram stories and mostly just like go
Speaker 1: on Finn stuff. Well, okay, speak, I was gonna bring
Speaker 1: up your finstad because I I when I think of
Speaker 1: when I think of you Rose or when I think
Speaker 1: of Fence to Culture, I go, you know, the person
Speaker 1: who curates the best memes is a tie between Rose
Speaker 1: and and Friend Toronto. I'm like, you two are somehow
Speaker 1: in that you guys have figured out some sourcing or
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but you you both
Speaker 1: like will curate the right memes. Well, he's also often
Speaker 1: stealing memes from me. Where are you? Where are you
Speaker 1: finding them? Um? No, I mean from from Twitter, from
Speaker 1: other people's fence stuff. Yeah, they're not they're not the
Speaker 1: scarlet witch. I know it's not. It's not chaos. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just chaos. Well, first of all, I want to.
Speaker 1: I want to share your handles so bad because it
Speaker 1: really makes me laugh. Will you power? I said, I
Speaker 1: want to. I'm not going to, but I mean, but
Speaker 1: like I'll give a tease. I'll say, like what it's from.
Speaker 1: I won't say what it is, but it is. It
Speaker 1: is from the film. It's from last black Swan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: was black Swan big major culture for you? Yes? I
Speaker 1: love black Swan. I remember seeing it in theaters. I
Speaker 1: was so obsessed. Um yeah, I love I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean I love most of his films. I loved
Speaker 1: Mother mother exclamation point. My mom is actually in my
Speaker 1: phone as a mother exclamation point. If I could italicize it,
Speaker 1: I would, Oh my god. If you can make it
Speaker 1: into the folklore font, into that like rustic font, you
Speaker 1: would that's actually that's cuckoo bananas that you even bring
Speaker 1: up Mother, because it's the second time Mother has come
Speaker 1: up today in my personal life. Yes, because I was
Speaker 1: talking about I Care a lot earlier and about how
Speaker 1: people I think a lot of the response to the
Speaker 1: movie are like people being like I didn't like that,
Speaker 1: but and really it They didn't like the way it
Speaker 1: made them feel because it's about a bad person, Whereas
Speaker 1: I think Mother was sort of the same thing. Like
Speaker 1: Mother did not make people feel good, but it was
Speaker 1: extremely good at doing that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It also like it also made you want to talk
Speaker 1: about it, Like I saw Mother with a bunch of
Speaker 1: friends and we and we saw it, I think at
Speaker 1: Williamsburg Cinemas in Brooklyn and walked from there to Kellogg's
Speaker 1: Diner and had food, and we talked about the movie
Speaker 1: from the time we left the theater until we all
Speaker 1: got up and left at the end. And it's not
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily that we all loved it, but we
Speaker 1: all just like really wanted to talk about it. That
Speaker 1: scene where Christin Wig shoots someone is iconic. It's one
Speaker 1: of the craziest collections of scenes that's ever been committed
Speaker 1: to a collection of scenes is really good way, but
Speaker 1: it's really the culture number thirty Mother Mother is the
Speaker 1: most insane, one of the most insane put together on film.
Speaker 1: And tell you, Lord, really and sometimes I will call
Speaker 1: my mother mother and she really she really doesn't like
Speaker 1: it for some reason, patronizing. That's wait, can I can
Speaker 1: I share? Can I tell Matt we'll we'll bleep out
Speaker 1: the handle. I swear to God, will bowen is you
Speaker 1: can say it and then I'll do it in the
Speaker 1: in the voice. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we we know
Speaker 1: the voice. But okay, well, because I really want you
Speaker 1: to be heroes for when I tell Matt, because I've
Speaker 1: dreamed of this day. Actually I'm not I'm not even joking.
Speaker 1: I'm like humiliated and embarrass that I'm already not following it.
Speaker 1: And I have I have like a big complex about
Speaker 1: fence to culture that I'm not like your well, your
Speaker 1: fence to mattn is a no. But it's the the
Speaker 1: avatar is um is mine? Also is I love box Lust.
Speaker 1: I am a vox Lux stand up box Lux Truther.
Speaker 1: It is that's her name again, what's the last Her
Speaker 1: and her fans are called angels I am u cessed with.
Speaker 1: There's bops from the e k G. Are you fucking
Speaker 1: hitting me? Who have a heart attack? Yeah? The controversial Sia,
Speaker 1: the lightning rod of controversy. That is CIA. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the artists formerly noticed Patty Harrison. Alright, really that was art.
Speaker 1: That was truly. May have to get Patty back on
Speaker 1: the show to sort of answer for herself. I've been
Speaker 1: wanting to get Patty on the show. You need to
Speaker 1: bring her. She needs to come to the table to
Speaker 1: the need to happen here contractually. Actually, um, we'll go
Speaker 1: bo and do. This is the handle. This is the handle. Ready,
Speaker 1: It's it's a little like Sean Connor. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the way that people bleep, bleep bleep. But anyway, it
Speaker 1: was good for us readers. Oh my god. Every time
Speaker 1: I see it, I laugh, I audibly laugh. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna assume that your top two favorite Aronofsky are
Speaker 1: Black Swan and Mother. Yeah, and what would you say
Speaker 1: is the third? What are the other ones? I can
Speaker 1: I tell you what I gag for the wrestler. I
Speaker 1: thought the wrestler was amazing. Oh see, it's actually I
Speaker 1: think better than you probably think because I get the
Speaker 1: Mickey Rourke sort of on horror show. But like Marissa
Speaker 1: Tolmay is so good in it, and every Rachel Woods
Speaker 1: also great in it. Like it gives you something, It
Speaker 1: gives the queers, you know something. I love Evan rachel Wood.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, no, bra no panties. Yes, the woman
Speaker 1: who taught me to huff chelo, the woman who taught
Speaker 1: me to huff. Wow, she actually brings to use it
Speaker 1: off the use phrase. She actually brings it to you.
Speaker 1: Every Ball thirteen was truly like it rocked me to
Speaker 1: my core. I was like, I can't believe this girl
Speaker 1: is acting this way. And it was Evan rachel Wood
Speaker 1: through the character and Evan and Nicky Reid and Nicky
Speaker 1: Reid Yeah, Nicky Reid who wrote it. Yeah, who famously
Speaker 1: went on to be in Twilight. Yeah, she was. And
Speaker 1: she also, like I think, married Ian Summerholder. Lucky bitch.
Speaker 1: What a dream. Wait. But this is the thing about
Speaker 1: True Blood though and Bone Were you a true Blood?
Speaker 1: Sort of watched the I watched the first and then
Speaker 1: I fell off. All right, So in the fourth season
Speaker 1: they bring Fiona Shaw on as a witch, and I
Speaker 1: feel they sort of ended Witches for a little bit
Speaker 1: with that because they had a bad season with it
Speaker 1: was it was not great, and it came off of
Speaker 1: what I think were the two the best True Blood seasons,
Speaker 1: which were two and three marian and then the Werewolves
Speaker 1: and then oh my god, Oh my god. Uh Maryanne.
Speaker 1: She was ever a moment, the moment, come on, no
Speaker 1: miss Michelle Forbes, who was who played Marianne on True
Speaker 1: Blood season two. I watched the killing because of her.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like a Michelle Forbes stam
Speaker 1: and I love that actress. When she popped up in
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games, I think I screamed audibly in the
Speaker 1: movie theater and she was probably there, like I've been waiting.
Speaker 1: Her family was so concerned. They's just been at every
Speaker 1: show and it's playing on thousands of screens. It's you know,
Speaker 1: but mary Ane's capable of many things. We should say. Uh.
Speaker 1: That third season of True Blood features Dennis O'Hair and
Speaker 1: a performance that I can only describe as made me come.
Speaker 1: That's the one where he rips out the spine on TV.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, back when I used to be able
Speaker 1: to sit through ship like that. See that's how you know,
Speaker 1: I've been through a sea change as a person. Like
Speaker 1: I used to be able to I used to fucking
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with true Blood. Yeah, I don't get
Speaker 1: it that. I don't get why you can't well, you're
Speaker 1: so squeamish now, I don't know. You don't like I
Speaker 1: don't like Gore. It has to be very pulpy, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you. I like, I had to watch Mother,
Speaker 1: Like I think I saw that two percent of it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean because I was just like
Speaker 1: that the whole time, and like like, and I feel
Speaker 1: shitty about it because I want to, like, I want
Speaker 1: to not be such a a little bit. Well, Rose,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're a vampire person. You love your Twilight,
Speaker 1: you love your true blood x x she that's right,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. Yeah. I I had an early
Speaker 1: love of all things supernatural monsters. I mean, as a kid,
Speaker 1: I loved Um and Rice. Um. I think that was
Speaker 1: probably my first exposure. I read like Um Interview with
Speaker 1: a Vampire like saw it way too young. And I
Speaker 1: was a huge Buffy girl. Yes, okay, you would be.
Speaker 1: I was. I was the I was like the Buffy
Speaker 1: girl and the well were this Segway is perfectly into
Speaker 1: the question, but I do want to get your take
Speaker 1: on the Jos stuff if you yeah, um, you know
Speaker 1: it's it's so it's so sad um because to think about, um,
Speaker 1: how hard like to to think about the experiences that
Speaker 1: these people had and to think about how, um, how
Speaker 1: much pain went into making something that you love, um,
Speaker 1: and so it will be forever tainted for me. And
Speaker 1: that's why you know, probably like when we get to
Speaker 1: the question, maybe like a couple of weeks or a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, like that might have been it
Speaker 1: might have been I mean, and we'll get to my answer,
Speaker 1: and like it's still kind of is partially um. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really shitty, and I think you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's so weird to think about how like this
Speaker 1: man whose career has like always kind of featured these
Speaker 1: stories about like strong women and wondering if like that
Speaker 1: was maybe a way for him to excuse the way
Speaker 1: that he like actually treated women behind the scenes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you know you have to think that or again
Speaker 1: this and this is I'm not an expert on this,
Speaker 1: but like even hearing it stated that plainly, like someone
Speaker 1: who's um about creating um powerful women, Like there's also
Speaker 1: something with control about that, And there's so much with
Speaker 1: you know, abusers, like if you really boil it down,
Speaker 1: like so much of it, almost all of it really
Speaker 1: is about control, and so maybe there is something to that.
Speaker 1: Because someone else who's credited with, you know, creating amazing
Speaker 1: characters for women is Woody Allen. Like I wonder if
Speaker 1: people are watching it that I've daigned to defend him recently,
Speaker 1: like can actually watch this and sit and have that
Speaker 1: sit in their spirit, because it's just interesting the parallels
Speaker 1: because there are these people who, like, you know, Penelope
Speaker 1: Crews when she won her Oscar for Vicky Carissina was like,
Speaker 1: you can't talk about female characters without talking about Woody
Speaker 1: Allen and I was like, well, in retrospect, that's pretty shitty. Well,
Speaker 1: this is someone who worked with him to to acclaim.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's it's interesting that I wonder there's
Speaker 1: something to that m about the control about or oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, about um taking cover behind creating fictionally
Speaker 1: strong women. Yeah, like women are only allowed to be strong, uh,
Speaker 1: you know in fiction and on your terms. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's always like you're you're the one giving the permission.
Speaker 1: For sure. It feels like, um like, especially this actually
Speaker 1: was gonna be my I don't think so, honey, maybe
Speaker 1: it still can be. But like with the whole anti
Speaker 1: hero movement, um it feels like we really only let
Speaker 1: men get away with that. Really um Like, it feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, especially like with even with I care a lot,
Speaker 1: like not to bring it up again, but just because
Speaker 1: it's because it is happening in the moment. No, well
Speaker 1: I do, actually and so and so. Basically, what what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is like it feels like if a woman
Speaker 1: is a pure, out and out villain, people don't know
Speaker 1: what to do with it. Like even with something as
Speaker 1: stupid and it should be as goofy as Maleficent. It's
Speaker 1: like Maleficent should just be Maleficent. It's actually why we
Speaker 1: bought the ticket is because I wanted to see Angelina
Speaker 1: Jolie reek absolute Havoc and hell and fire flames on everyone,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to watch Cruella de Ville with
Speaker 1: Emma Stone and find out she has mommy issues, darling, dear,
Speaker 1: you know, and I because you know what her name
Speaker 1: is actually cruel devil, so Emma Stone can actually just
Speaker 1: I don't need to see her crying about trauma on
Speaker 1: a bike. I can. I would like to see her
Speaker 1: make a dog into a coat, because that's what Corrella
Speaker 1: Deville is. And it's actually okay, I'm with you on
Speaker 1: the Maleficent thing, like how do you call the second
Speaker 1: movie Maleficent Mistress of Evil? And they're like, but she's
Speaker 1: not really evil? You know who's bad? Michelle Fiverer like
Speaker 1: and only kind of It's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Like I I bought the ticket to see Angelina Jolie
Speaker 1: be a final Us and like, the reason why we
Speaker 1: loved all these villains when we were kids was like
Speaker 1: because they were bad, not in spite of it. Right,
Speaker 1: if if they do that to Ursula, someday she's gonna
Speaker 1: be She's gonna be a girl boss, is going to
Speaker 1: be running a small business down in that little cave
Speaker 1: she has shop. Oh no. It was like the reason
Speaker 1: I'm like this is because I didn't fit in the
Speaker 1: body standards under the cr They're too much. And I
Speaker 1: turned to water, witchy water. I remember when the rumors
Speaker 1: were that it was gonna be Gaga, Gaga more snatched
Speaker 1: than ever. She goes back to her art pop body
Speaker 1: are classical, showing She's like, admit, I've been a nasty
Speaker 1: like I'm just like Gaga. Oh my God, Like I
Speaker 1: want to see that movie. We have to talk to
Speaker 1: Rose about Gaga. I don't well. I reread I reread
Speaker 1: the art pup Um Peace, and I fully agree with
Speaker 1: you the one I wrote for Paper. Yes, so I
Speaker 1: we sort of. I sort of went back down the
Speaker 1: Rose wormhole and I was just like, especially in retrospect,
Speaker 1: like art pop is my favorite Gaga um without it?
Speaker 1: Is it? Really? Yeah? It is. It's so funny because
Speaker 1: it's like when it came out, When it came out,
Speaker 1: you hated it. I remember, Yeah, And in retrospect I
Speaker 1: have a completely different opinion on it because I was
Speaker 1: always like fearful of God God, because I was fearful
Speaker 1: of myself. I I honestly think this. There are people
Speaker 1: who are afraid of themselves and their sexuality and their identity.
Speaker 1: Are they distrust Gaga? They were they were slower to God.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I really think that. Okay, okay, get
Speaker 1: it interesting, this is interesting, but we should ask the question.
Speaker 1: Let's ask the question. This is the question we ask
Speaker 1: all of our guests, Rose, what is the culture that
Speaker 1: made you say culture is for me? Okay, I thought
Speaker 1: really heard about this and I love good yeah, and
Speaker 1: I and I like was overthinking it, and there were
Speaker 1: so many things that I think it could have been.
Speaker 1: And then I really thought about what, like what the
Speaker 1: question is, and it's like, what is the culture that
Speaker 1: made me say, like, oh, culture is for me? Because
Speaker 1: that famously thank you for that, cadence, and they're going.
Speaker 1: And so the culture that made me realize cultures for
Speaker 1: me is fan fiction for dot net, fan fiction, dot
Speaker 1: net live journal, you know, like angel fire, websites, um I.
Speaker 1: And I think the reason that that is is because
Speaker 1: fan fiction made me realize that you were allowed to
Speaker 1: love something that much. You were allowed to love a
Speaker 1: piece of culture so much that that love didn't stop
Speaker 1: when it was over. It didn't stop when the when
Speaker 1: the like author creator told you who those characters were,
Speaker 1: that you were allowed to play in their sandbox and
Speaker 1: and like remix what they had created and live in
Speaker 1: that world. Um yeah, and and so many, so many pieces,
Speaker 1: so many things. I think around the time that I
Speaker 1: discovered that like we're connected to it, it was like
Speaker 1: about internet culture and fandom and like being like a
Speaker 1: weird goths you know girl. Um and uh yeah, like
Speaker 1: I just loved and still to this day, like I
Speaker 1: read fan fiction. If I really like like a movie
Speaker 1: or a book or something, the first thing I do
Speaker 1: when it ends, it's like, oh, I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: fan fiction about this, Like I'm not ready for it
Speaker 1: to be over. I just want to say, um, this
Speaker 1: is I think this is one of our best answers.
Speaker 1: I would agree. I mean what we're uh fan of
Speaker 1: fictions that you dabbled in and did you create it yourself?
Speaker 1: I did, and and that's a big part of it
Speaker 1: is like I learned to write reading and writing fan fiction. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like like obviously I loved I loved books,
Speaker 1: and like that could have been my answers like books
Speaker 1: or like libraries or whatever, but really it was like
Speaker 1: and yes, I so I did write fan fiction. I
Speaker 1: think probably like the earliest fan fiction I read was
Speaker 1: like Buffy and Harry Potter, right, you know, Potter fan
Speaker 1: fic was big. It was huge, and I was like
Speaker 1: firing up the E machine in in my um you know,
Speaker 1: like uh bedroom, and you know, just consuming fan fiction.
Speaker 1: For hours while listening to Evanescence Um until my eyes
Speaker 1: and started to bleed. Harry Potter was the gateway into
Speaker 1: a lot of other fan fiction. I would say, maybe
Speaker 1: this is just like well established, well the world is
Speaker 1: know big, but the hair. But the trouble with Harry
Speaker 1: Potter fan fiction to me was always, Oh, you're trying
Speaker 1: to write like j K rolling, and you should. You
Speaker 1: should make a choice that is deliberately not j K
Speaker 1: in order to make it interesting. That's why like the
Speaker 1: quote unquote poorly written fan fix between like you know,
Speaker 1: mouthlin and and Harry fucking like that, we're like really
Speaker 1: like lude and disgusting. We're like my favorites. Well, I
Speaker 1: loved the more the more ridiculous ones, like the iconic
Speaker 1: famous My Immortal fan fiction, like that wait, what is
Speaker 1: that one? Okay, so there's this, there's there's been there's
Speaker 1: this fan fiction called my Immortal that's about you know,
Speaker 1: there's this fan fiction trope of the like Mary Sue
Speaker 1: self insertion character, where's this character who's like not tied
Speaker 1: to the actual thing that's happening, and it's like so
Speaker 1: cool and perfect and like has super like crazy superpowers.
Speaker 1: And my immortal is that, but like on fucking Crack,
Speaker 1: it's this girl who is named Um. I think her
Speaker 1: name's Ebony, but like the author misspells it as Enna
Speaker 1: be Um and she's like a goth satanist who had
Speaker 1: rolls at Hogwarts. Um. There's been so much like like
Speaker 1: discourse around this about whether it was real or if
Speaker 1: it was like someone, but it is. It is truly Um.
Speaker 1: I've heard about my immortal. I have not. I should
Speaker 1: just reade how long is it? Is it a long read?
Speaker 1: I feel like I should just read it. It's either
Speaker 1: like ten thousand words or a hundred thousand. I could
Speaker 1: not tell you because it didn't matter there you were
Speaker 1: like up to the crab and onn eyes bleeding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter that that And that's part of it too,
Speaker 1: is like like I remember I used to this is
Speaker 1: so huge milliating, But to read American Idol fan fiction
Speaker 1: of like them at the House, you have no idea.
Speaker 1: I read this fan fiction one time that was Ryan's
Speaker 1: Secrets going to knocking on the door of the American
Speaker 1: is L season four house like to look for Anthony Fedorov,
Speaker 1: who came in like fifth or six. It was like
Speaker 1: this like blonde twin who like was like a tenor
Speaker 1: and I swear to god I read a full sex
Speaker 1: fan fiction I did about Ryan Seacrest, like eating Anthony
Speaker 1: Federov's asked, and then I could have been reading it
Speaker 1: for four hours or fifty eight Like that's I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I was totally lost in the world of like this
Speaker 1: insane pornographic fan fic. And that's what I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you. Was a lot of the ship that you
Speaker 1: read porn um? I mean I think a fair amount
Speaker 1: of it because like this was like pure time for me,
Speaker 1: but also like I don't know, I was really into
Speaker 1: people who really took the time to build out like
Speaker 1: alternative universes and like put a lot of detail in it.
Speaker 1: And still like to this day, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: you see so many authors now who got their start
Speaker 1: writing fan fiction. I mean it's become mainstream. Look it
Speaker 1: fifty Shades of Gray, which I love. I am stan
Speaker 1: because why hate on it? It literally is what it is,
Speaker 1: what it is, like like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it just is what it is, and the movie's
Speaker 1: going to be better or worse. Movies are so fun.
Speaker 1: They always get such bops on the soundtracks to Dat
Speaker 1: You Do Love to Get. You and Dakota have a
Speaker 1: similar energy. Is that fair to say, um, sure we
Speaker 1: both have bangs? Well no, but you like you would
Speaker 1: you would have said that to Ellen, like like you
Speaker 1: would have said that to Ellen maybe, Like that's not
Speaker 1: the trick. I can just hear you got, I can
Speaker 1: hear you going no Ellen. I also, I mean, I
Speaker 1: loved Dakota from Fifty Shades of Gray, but what really
Speaker 1: tug me over the edge with her was Spiria. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I love Suspiria. It is. It became immediately
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies. And I don't like the original.
Speaker 1: I think I think the original is bad and I
Speaker 1: all the fucking like film Twitter people are going to
Speaker 1: start coming for me. But Suspiria. I could sit through
Speaker 1: that three hour movie six times a day. What about it?
Speaker 1: Because I have to admit that I have not seen it,
Speaker 1: and I'm afraid to. I for some reason have the
Speaker 1: squeamishness that Matt you normally has around to Spiria like
Speaker 1: that one is like for real, like, yeah, it goes there,
Speaker 1: It's so good, you know, it's the Witches again. I
Speaker 1: think what I really liked was I did see the
Speaker 1: original first, and you know, the hallmark of the original
Speaker 1: is that it's like this like really like technicolor um,
Speaker 1: you know, like super saturated movie and like it's all
Speaker 1: about style over substance. And then the remake is like
Speaker 1: so muted um and like austere it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: so german um. And I thought Dakota was like incredible
Speaker 1: in it, till does amazing. I mean Tilda in that
Speaker 1: like Tilda a prosthetics playing that old man and playing
Speaker 1: this like amazing like high priestess, and the gore is
Speaker 1: so ridiculous. The music that the Tom York soundtrack is amazing.
Speaker 1: I just I fucking love that movie. Uh huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We Oh, we got on this topic because the Fifty
Speaker 1: Streets is gray I do before we really and I'm
Speaker 1: not ready to move on quite yet, but I do
Speaker 1: want to point out that roses onto something um that
Speaker 1: might be a little obvious, but like the like fan
Speaker 1: fiction culture at that time, let's say circa two thousand six,
Speaker 1: that at that time in the Internet, that was the
Speaker 1: like precursor to all the stuff that we have now,
Speaker 1: which is like stand culture, which is like like film, Twitter,
Speaker 1: even it was all like secret because it was because
Speaker 1: it wasn't cool to like something that much was It
Speaker 1: was a lot there was a lot of irony. That's
Speaker 1: so true. We we I don't think we've been in
Speaker 1: like a state where it's cool to be ironic for
Speaker 1: some time. Now. I feel like it's it's it's and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad because I'm not. I don't fit in
Speaker 1: with that, like I cannot hide. And that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's I think. The one thing that I really like
Speaker 1: about culture today is like, and maybe we've swung a
Speaker 1: little too far, is that it is cool to love
Speaker 1: what you love so aggressively online. Um, but which I
Speaker 1: couldn't have imagined when I was like a teenager, you know,
Speaker 1: secretly reading like Buffy, Lord of the Rings crossover fan fiction, um,
Speaker 1: you know, by the glow of my computer screen in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, hoping that my mom wentn't
Speaker 1: walk in. Not because I was like doing because I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, like getting off to it or anything,
Speaker 1: but because it just felt like I should. There was
Speaker 1: an element of shame. There was an element of there
Speaker 1: was an element of shame. It was like you should
Speaker 1: have gotten over that after you read it or watched it,
Speaker 1: like you shouldn't still be so obsessed with it, but
Speaker 1: I was, and especially you know when you factor queerness
Speaker 1: into it, because I mean, I do think it's very
Speaker 1: telling that when I started fan fiction, you know, I
Speaker 1: was very interested in like heterosexual romances and this was
Speaker 1: like you know, with like way pre transition, so who
Speaker 1: knows what kind of like gender fantasy I was living
Speaker 1: out um but now, but then like that evolved into
Speaker 1: like reading queerness into the media I was consuming and
Speaker 1: wanting to see that explored in fan works. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like we should also remember that, like the box
Speaker 1: of what was quote unquote cool to like at that
Speaker 1: time was very small because there was almost no representation
Speaker 1: and there were very few platforms as compared to what
Speaker 1: we have today. So I feel like it's easier to
Speaker 1: find community and what you like just because there is
Speaker 1: more of it out there, and like there is such
Speaker 1: a like obviously like not to say queerness is embraced,
Speaker 1: but like there are there is queer representation at all,
Speaker 1: and so like that obviously opens up so so much
Speaker 1: content to like and to embrace. It just didn't exist
Speaker 1: at the time, like of course, I'm talking about how
Speaker 1: you know, I read fan fic for the most popular
Speaker 1: fucking television show in America. Like that, we're talking about
Speaker 1: how the popular fan fic of the time was Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: the most popular children's book in the world in the
Speaker 1: history of the world. You know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: you were you were obsessed with Lost, right, what did
Speaker 1: you read Lost fan fiction? I did? I did um
Speaker 1: and many Lost fan fictions. They actually gave Kate a
Speaker 1: personality which I loved, um um, Like when Juliette came
Speaker 1: on that shot, I was like, oh my gosh, like
Speaker 1: a female character with depth. I'm obsessed. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I did. I read a lot of fans. This is
Speaker 1: This is kind of a different conversation. But what you're saying,
Speaker 1: man about like, um, you know they're not being as
Speaker 1: many platforms back then, is interesting to me because I
Speaker 1: also think it was a now things were distributed and
Speaker 1: circulated like that, right. It's like, let's just a weird example,
Speaker 1: but like let's say Queen's Game. It comes out and
Speaker 1: then like five days later, everyone's doing like the meme
Speaker 1: of the girl like eating all the pills and stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like okay, like there's like the visual
Speaker 1: language or the shared language of this is being developed
Speaker 1: within days and like back and then like back then,
Speaker 1: it would be like remember it was this just me,
Speaker 1: Like remember like trying to get your friends to watch
Speaker 1: a certain show, but then like it would be in
Speaker 1: its second or third season, so you would have to
Speaker 1: like blend them the DVDs of the first couple of
Speaker 1: seasons of the show, like I did that with Brayson
Speaker 1: Animy with certain friends. I was like, you have to
Speaker 1: watch Brayson Animy when it was like season three, like
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it before. I'm like, here, borrow my
Speaker 1: dv Like it was like there was a there was
Speaker 1: a but it's not even that. It was just like
Speaker 1: there was there were just more obstacles in the path
Speaker 1: of getting people to be on the same page as you. Um.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of memories about as as a kid,
Speaker 1: like desperately trying to get people to understand like why
Speaker 1: they needed to watch something. I remember like being at
Speaker 1: sleep Boy camp and telling my camp counselor that she
Speaker 1: had to see ever After starring Drew Barrymore and I
Speaker 1: was like and I was like repeat, I was like,
Speaker 1: there's this part where Angelica Houston, who's her stepmother, tells
Speaker 1: her like, how could I ever love a pebble in
Speaker 1: my shoe? And it is such a sick burn And
Speaker 1: my camp counselor was like, shut up and go play basketball. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like you know, we had all these fan communities,
Speaker 1: um where if your friends in real life weren't on that,
Speaker 1: weren't vibing with you, weren't on the same wavelength, there
Speaker 1: was proof online that there were thousands of other people
Speaker 1: who are yes, yes, that makes a lot of sense,
Speaker 1: makes total sense. And now it's like you don't really
Speaker 1: have to now. I never I don't find myself having
Speaker 1: to convince people to like something that I know, because
Speaker 1: who cares if they like it too? That you know
Speaker 1: for a fact, there's a million people like it use have.
Speaker 1: You know, they have all the cultural access points to it,
Speaker 1: and if they haven't found their way to it already,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's only so much you can do.
Speaker 1: It's so funny that that we land on this because Bowen,
Speaker 1: when you said before, like, um, what sort of cues
Speaker 1: you into watching what you're watching? Um, maybe that's part
Speaker 1: of it. Well for me, it's twitter like if I
Speaker 1: go on, which which sucks, and I hate Twitter and
Speaker 1: I think it's currently I have a deactivated I've been
Speaker 1: like battling with myself all week. Yeah, but it is
Speaker 1: like when I log on and I see everyone talking
Speaker 1: about it's a sin or I or I care a lot,
Speaker 1: or like any anything that people are talking about right
Speaker 1: now this week, I probably do get it from that site.
Speaker 1: And that's that's you know, it's a pro and icon
Speaker 1: because it's a pro because it gets me keyed into
Speaker 1: what people are talking about and I like to be
Speaker 1: part of the conversation, like Rose was saying, but also, um,
Speaker 1: it makes me rely on that site too much, like
Speaker 1: that I cannot rely on that site for like, um
Speaker 1: my cultural consumption and news and social interaction and a
Speaker 1: joke platform and this, this, this, It just becomes too
Speaker 1: all encompassing. But I realized that that is my answer,
Speaker 1: That is my personal answer to that question from before
Speaker 1: that may totally makes sense to me, but also it's
Speaker 1: it's it's true because like you find the people that
Speaker 1: you trust, and if you're on the fence about something,
Speaker 1: then like usually something like Twitter, Like I remember when
Speaker 1: when Vanano came out, I was like I had heard
Speaker 1: about it, and then once I saw the specific people
Speaker 1: whose opinions I really trust, being like, yeah, this is it.
Speaker 1: This is the moment, I was like, Okay, I gotta
Speaker 1: watch that. Um. And it happened with me with you
Speaker 1: when you said Dickinson's season two was the moment. I wash,
Speaker 1: my god, Dickinson is so good. And now that you
Speaker 1: said that, I've watched the first three episodes of the
Speaker 1: first season and I'm into it. It's really good Jane
Speaker 1: Krakowski vehicle. I'm always happy with um, but it's so good.
Speaker 1: It's so queer er um. And I was surprised. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't love that. I mean, you'll get there. I
Speaker 1: didn't love some of the end of season two, but
Speaker 1: it really matured in season two. And I mean I
Speaker 1: love Emily Dickinson. I love like you know, like uh,
Speaker 1: death obsessed, like golf girls writing poetry in their bedrooms.
Speaker 1: I mean that was me writing fan fiction. And like
Speaker 1: season two is also like such an exploration of fame
Speaker 1: and like, you know, the pitfalls of like wanting and
Speaker 1: achieving fame, and um, it's yeah, I love, I love
Speaker 1: And it's also in a way it's like fan fiction
Speaker 1: about this real person's life. Totally, totally, totally. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you what your relationship is to Hailey steinfeld
Speaker 1: Um because she we believe she's the queen of pop.
Speaker 1: I don't know she's the queen of pop. I really
Speaker 1: liked Bumblebee. I watched it on a plane once. Um,
Speaker 1: you're on the wrong side of rock bottom. I did
Speaker 1: eat some lobster next to her at the Dickinson premiere party. Um. Huge?
Speaker 1: Did she go in on the lobster? Was she dainty
Speaker 1: about it? Um? No, she wasn't eating lobster. I was
Speaker 1: eating lobsters to her, isn't. They had a really they
Speaker 1: had a really crazy premiere party at the at the
Speaker 1: Dumbo Soho House and I was just like, there was
Speaker 1: a whole seafood buffet and I was just like eating.
Speaker 1: I was like taking lobster to the face and next
Speaker 1: to Hailey steinfeld Um. But I think I think she's
Speaker 1: really I like that song, Um, I love that's her
Speaker 1: right she is hy which back to Dakota Johnson, is
Speaker 1: the last song in one of my favorite movies, How
Speaker 1: to Be Single, which I think, yeah, because Dakota as well.
Speaker 1: And if I can't watch this period. I gotta watch
Speaker 1: How to Be Single. It's like when the opposite end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. It's really fun. It's one of the
Speaker 1: only movies that I own on iTunes. I bought it.
Speaker 1: How to Be Single and Practical Magic. Those the only
Speaker 1: two movies I own that really tricks out. Are You
Speaker 1: a Practical Magic? Type of girl? That was on I
Speaker 1: mean that could have also been my The culture that
Speaker 1: made culture was for me because which movie? Which movie? Like?
Speaker 1: And it was Nicole Sandra And also like not just
Speaker 1: the movie itself, but like the soundtrack. I think that's
Speaker 1: probably what introduced me to Stevie Nicks. Um what introduced
Speaker 1: me to Joni Mitchell. That's scene where she's singing along
Speaker 1: to a case of You when she's driving. UM and
Speaker 1: I I love UM. The Alice Hoffman, who wrote the
Speaker 1: book that it's based on, has written UM to prequel
Speaker 1: books and they're both really great. UM loves Cractical Magic
Speaker 1: that whole like nineties which aesthetic and like that, like
Speaker 1: magical realism I think is really fun in supernatural movies.
Speaker 1: UM and you know like Girl Powers, Sisterhood. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it. It's so funny to think of Nicole Kim
Speaker 1: and in Sandra Bullock in a movie together at all,
Speaker 1: and then you remember it's that Yeah, but you think like,
Speaker 1: well it can't possibly work. It works. It works, You
Speaker 1: absolutely believe it. It's magic. That's and that's also movie magic,
Speaker 1: which is huge in Hollywood. Movie magic is huge in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: It's a real culture. It's still movie magic. Magic is huge.
Speaker 1: So but when are you are you thinking? When I'm
Speaker 1: thinking just saying I wanted to commend Rose on what
Speaker 1: I thought was an extremely well written piece about but
Speaker 1: but I wanted to, well, what what do you still
Speaker 1: have the same take on the art? Pop off it all?
Speaker 1: And now that we have no see this is why
Speaker 1: it's good to check in with Rose about the piece
Speaker 1: because this was written like right post Stars Born, are
Speaker 1: during Stars Born, when was like hadn't yet we hadn't
Speaker 1: yet known what she'd pivot to from Stars Worn. It
Speaker 1: was it was post Stars Born, It was when it
Speaker 1: was like fall of two thousand nineteen, so it was
Speaker 1: like Oscar, she'd won the Oscar. She was like getting
Speaker 1: ready to go into CHROMATICA. Right, So now I guess
Speaker 1: my question to you is, now that we have CHROMATICA
Speaker 1: out in the world, does your take on the Gaga
Speaker 1: through the lens of art pop out of it all changed,
Speaker 1: Like do you feel that Chromatica was um a return
Speaker 1: to her sort of I don't give a pop, I
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck pop dance like let me try
Speaker 1: things moment. Or do you think Chromatica is low impact? Um?
Speaker 1: I love Chromatica. UM. I think both of you probably
Speaker 1: know from Eddie like cursory search of the social media.
Speaker 1: I literally have the blanket behind me I have. I
Speaker 1: have given so many of my transsexual dollars to Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga in the past year. Um, and No, I love Caromatica.
Speaker 1: I do think though, that it doesn't change how I
Speaker 1: feel about art pop because I think, like, yes, Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga returned to this, to this like you know, high
Speaker 1: intensity like dance pop. But I do think art pop
Speaker 1: was the last time she was a pop star in
Speaker 1: the way that we first met her, in a fearless
Speaker 1: capacity and in that sort of way where it's like,
Speaker 1: I love what you said when when you were saying
Speaker 1: like every artistic impulse was followed, like it felt like
Speaker 1: there was not the word no in the realm of
Speaker 1: the creation of that it was it was more is
Speaker 1: more it was let's do everything because you know, after
Speaker 1: after the you know, success of Born This Way Um,
Speaker 1: you know, she was at her most like pop maximalist um.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why we saw that the direction
Speaker 1: she took afterwards when our pop you know, like quote
Speaker 1: unquote flopped like which it didn't commercially. You know, it
Speaker 1: was successful commercially, it just like wasn't as successful, you know, critically,
Speaker 1: even though I think it's an amazing album. It's not
Speaker 1: my favorite PUM album, but I think it's an amazing album.
Speaker 1: But you know, she really everything that happened after that
Speaker 1: album really re contextualized her, both like to us, to
Speaker 1: to the public tip hop culture, and I think to herself,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, as in she started to take herself more
Speaker 1: seriously as far as like not being this thisslike really
Speaker 1: a Trey pop artist. Now she was like now, it
Speaker 1: does feel like she's been taking herself more like a
Speaker 1: little I don't know, I was gonna say too seriously,
Speaker 1: but now that's not true. But when you have always
Speaker 1: said this about Gaga, which which I I and I
Speaker 1: don't know if I agree with it or I can
Speaker 1: recognize it as could be true, which is that she,
Speaker 1: in every new stage of her career is performing a
Speaker 1: new type of fame, like so with the Star Is
Speaker 1: Born of it all and the canned answers on the
Speaker 1: red carpet and the sort of crying when she wins,
Speaker 1: and the thinking of the leading man and director and
Speaker 1: the fact that it's a Star is Born and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, the glam of it all, Um
Speaker 1: that you believe that this is part of a performance
Speaker 1: that she is doing because it's a performance of that
Speaker 1: type of movie stardom. Yes, where she's like and thank
Speaker 1: you to my costar and like, oh yeah, like that
Speaker 1: that was what a Star is Born was. I don't
Speaker 1: know what art pop was in terms of her like
Speaker 1: study of fame. Well, I guess I would. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is like, thinking that she is performing these different
Speaker 1: types of fame is sort of in conflict with she
Speaker 1: takes herself too seriously because if she's if she's performing
Speaker 1: different types of fame, then she then she's in control
Speaker 1: of that performance. I guess my question to the panel is,
Speaker 1: do we think that's less true then maybe we have before? Maybe?
Speaker 1: I mean, like I think so I think that that
Speaker 1: performance of fame was a lot more intentional in her
Speaker 1: early work. I mean literally the fame, the fame, money exactly, um.
Speaker 1: And then I think it has to happen that once
Speaker 1: you achieve a certain degree of fame, you can't make
Speaker 1: art about it in the same way because you're like
Speaker 1: actually inhabiting that reality, right right. I just think that
Speaker 1: art pop was her because at that point, that was
Speaker 1: when like you would have Elton John in interviews. I
Speaker 1: just simply remember this be like she's she has like
Speaker 1: Ellen John interview saying she has too many yes people,
Speaker 1: she has too many people saying yes. And she said
Speaker 1: people were lying to me, like people on her team
Speaker 1: she felt were lying to her, right, I mean that
Speaker 1: was just a chaotic time that I think was reflected
Speaker 1: in like even the rollout of the album and when
Speaker 1: she revealed the track list was do you remember this?
Speaker 1: The way she revealed the art pop track list was
Speaker 1: through little individual Instagram photos with little like like a
Speaker 1: little like a little mural paintings. It was like a
Speaker 1: five year old had painted like the words like aura
Speaker 1: and like a little picture of like I remember that
Speaker 1: blue a blue But like it was just like what
Speaker 1: the fun at the time of art pop being released
Speaker 1: was like maybe the craziest time of my life. That's
Speaker 1: when I was like like really firmly entrenched in like
Speaker 1: underground nightlife in New York and and so like that
Speaker 1: that part of it all, like seeing the kind of
Speaker 1: performance I was seeing on like a really micro level
Speaker 1: be then performed at its most outrageous. I think even
Speaker 1: then I recognized, like, that's not something that's sustainable, And
Speaker 1: I write, you knew it when you knew it had
Speaker 1: to stop. Yeah, I think that's probably what there was,
Speaker 1: like some level of burnout, I think. And do you
Speaker 1: think that that? How do I how do I ask
Speaker 1: this question? Do you think that the commercial quote unquote
Speaker 1: failure and critical quote unquote failure of art pop is
Speaker 1: what ended that? Or do you think that there was
Speaker 1: just not no further she could go at that time,
Speaker 1: like as an artist. Was the call coming from inside
Speaker 1: the house or was it external forces? Um? I think
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of both. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: her her body literally gave out on her. She had
Speaker 1: she had had such this crazy ascendency um and then
Speaker 1: you know, like like maybe hit a wall or something
Speaker 1: in the public eye, and you know, she took such
Speaker 1: a hard pivot to to like doing I think something
Speaker 1: that was like more comfortable for her, which was you know,
Speaker 1: like to the cheek the cheek of it all and
Speaker 1: the star was born. Um yeah, I just think she
Speaker 1: I don't and like I've really don't like this idea
Speaker 1: of like framing art pop as a failure, and that's like, really,
Speaker 1: why why not saying that you all are like And
Speaker 1: that's why I wrote that essay because that essay was
Speaker 1: in reaction to her saying I don't remember art pop
Speaker 1: And I was so upset by that because it felt
Speaker 1: like she was that was odd and I and I
Speaker 1: feel like it probably was just like all you know,
Speaker 1: you know, starting the promo machine, going for chromatica like
Speaker 1: should fire off a tweet every couple of months, and
Speaker 1: like the girls riled up, But it really felt like
Speaker 1: because the abandoned, she abandoned, she abandoned the legacy of
Speaker 1: that album and like the the stands and little monsters
Speaker 1: who were like really rode hard for that right here. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: she bailed on the commitment of it, and the commitment
Speaker 1: of it was that was so important, felt it felt
Speaker 1: like it was everything at a hundred and so years
Speaker 1: later to tweet out, I don't remember this because it's
Speaker 1: not even like it's not even like she said I
Speaker 1: hate art pop, which I think everyone would have been
Speaker 1: able to know was like a troll move because she
Speaker 1: is a troll, like Boone always points out, like Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga is an online troll, like pregnant, Yeah, pregnant. So
Speaker 1: like with something from those chromatic oreos, why should we
Speaker 1: find out they are soil and green? They are. They're disgusting,
Speaker 1: they are. I have I have so many packages of
Speaker 1: them in my cabinet and every time I open I
Speaker 1: can smell them. I think about the oreo of it
Speaker 1: all with with but and I like again, like as
Speaker 1: we're talking about it now, I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: behind this anymore, but this idea that like it's a
Speaker 1: performance of fame at every stage, I can get behind
Speaker 1: that when it comes to the oreo of it all,
Speaker 1: because she's like l o fucking lah, you know, that
Speaker 1: feels to me like it has to be knowing like
Speaker 1: if she is officially like when Stefani target pop star
Speaker 1: and that she's an oreo, then that's a tragedy. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's true. I believe that she's knowing
Speaker 1: about the chromatical oreo. I agree, I or I need
Speaker 1: to believe that anyway, I don't know. I'm I'm just
Speaker 1: happy that her dogs were returned and that was safe.
Speaker 1: Although I was there an update on that to the
Speaker 1: dog walker said something I don't know. I haven't been no,
Speaker 1: I hadn't checked in on the situation. I heard that
Speaker 1: the dogs were safely returned, and that to me was like, okay,
Speaker 1: so there's not more of a thread we're going to
Speaker 1: follow here. What about the person who was shot looking
Speaker 1: them or who returned them and how did they get them?
Speaker 1: I know that she said, I'm gonna give half a
Speaker 1: million dollars no questions asked, but like you got to
Speaker 1: ask some questions if someone was shot. Yeah. Also lady
Speaker 1: got got me like no question to ask, like the
Speaker 1: police are like, well not really, that's that's such like
Speaker 1: an Italian an Italian, like I was gonna say, like
Speaker 1: a monster thing to do. I think she is doing
Speaker 1: a gangster movie in she's doing movie all right, right, right,
Speaker 1: right right, because I heard that she was also going
Speaker 1: to do like a mob movie, which felt so Stephanie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, we gotta we gotta have her place. Just
Speaker 1: an Italian girl from New York. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: that before? Yeah? We went together. We we we've been together.
Speaker 1: I wanted to date their once separately. It's true. What
Speaker 1: do you want to say about it? Rose? It is
Speaker 1: not very good. I've the food is wrong. It is
Speaker 1: is toe up. The bartenders, they're like, God, bless them,
Speaker 1: just just lost Hell's Kitchen souls. We love them, we
Speaker 1: love we wish them well. We do have an update.
Speaker 1: I do wish that I UM owned the Joe and
Speaker 1: Trittoria UM Pride to twenty nineteen t shirt. I'm sad
Speaker 1: it when I have the we can someone out there
Speaker 1: has to have access and we can get it. We
Speaker 1: can get it sense or well, we're we can make
Speaker 1: them ourselves and sell them as law schoolture. That's true.
Speaker 1: We we are all about using pop stars the whole
Speaker 1: deal and making merch off of it for ourselves. Um.
Speaker 1: We have an update on Lady Gagas dog Walker. Lady
Speaker 1: Gagas dog Walker Ryan Fisher wrote that he has quote
Speaker 1: still in recovery from a very close call with death
Speaker 1: and that a lot of healing still needs to happen. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: he added the gratitude for all the love I feel
Speaker 1: from around this planet is immense and intense, which feels
Speaker 1: like it came from Lady Gaga's dog Walker for sure.
Speaker 1: It feels like it feels like it came from anyone.
Speaker 1: Using the word planet, you have to think maybe this
Speaker 1: that was written by a kindness punk for sure. Bros.
Speaker 1: You are you are the kindness punk, aren't you am? I? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I am. I'm trying to be I'm a I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be I'm trying to be nicer. I think god like, Um,
Speaker 1: so much of my personality used to be based around
Speaker 1: like being mean and like being a loose and that's
Speaker 1: not fun. I want to I want to be nice. No,
Speaker 1: it's really not see that. I think. I think the
Speaker 1: being being mean is cool of it all ended with
Speaker 1: irony culture or like detachment lature. Yeah, yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: for sure because Lady got I'm sure yeah interesting? Oh no,
Speaker 1: I mean the one time I met her, she was
Speaker 1: very nice. When did you meet her? Um? I met her?
Speaker 1: This was like when I used to live on the
Speaker 1: Lower East Side. I met her the day after the
Speaker 1: Alejandro video came out, and I met her at a
Speaker 1: bar on Rivington Street where she was like that that
Speaker 1: like guy who she used to date who owned all
Speaker 1: those lowery sidebars. And I was with some friends and
Speaker 1: we were like going to a party and we walked
Speaker 1: by and there was a woman standing out, a blonde
Speaker 1: woman standing outside and just her underw and I was like,
Speaker 1: that is Lady Gaga. And I was a huge little monster,
Speaker 1: and like all my friends were straight and none of
Speaker 1: them cared. Um, and we and so we left and
Speaker 1: we eventually went back there and she was still there,
Speaker 1: and you know, you could kind of see people like
Speaker 1: hovering around wanting to like like say hi to her.
Speaker 1: But this was like the height of you know, like
Speaker 1: hipster uh, you know, like downtown culture. It wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been cool. So but I didn't care. And you know,
Speaker 1: like I got to like said high to her. Um,
Speaker 1: and she was just like very nice. She was just
Speaker 1: sitting at the end of the bar, like throwing back
Speaker 1: beers all night, waiting for the bar to close so
Speaker 1: she could get laid. Oh my god, wow, I love
Speaker 1: that so much. And I also just want to quickly
Speaker 1: say that hipster culture was so embarrassing deeply. Everything about
Speaker 1: the aesthetic of it was embarrassing, the attitude things the
Speaker 1: bean and I and I really participated in it. Oh
Speaker 1: me too. My friend Cayles strback in high school got
Speaker 1: me The Hipster Handbook and like it was my favorite
Speaker 1: fucking book of all time, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: gotta listen to Pavement, I gotta listen to like fucking
Speaker 1: like radio every radio Head album. Like it truly like
Speaker 1: made me. It like stunted my development. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why I swung so hard away from it, like
Speaker 1: after that into like real dirt bag club kid like
Speaker 1: super glam, like uh like no irony culture is because
Speaker 1: I was like that fucking sucks and like only straight
Speaker 1: people are into that, and I'm fun and I'm like
Speaker 1: fucking queer and I'm not gonna be like ironic about anything.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be really fucking literal and maximalist about everything. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I think you're onto something where it's like hipster
Speaker 1: culture was a way to like fence queer people into
Speaker 1: something that was still had a renormative but we were like,
Speaker 1: oh but this is like this feels different enough. It
Speaker 1: was still like, oh, but this is being dictated by
Speaker 1: straight people, and straight people only totally and like we
Speaker 1: were still there was still another like barrier to break
Speaker 1: out of in order for queer people to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what we actually want. It was like alternative,
Speaker 1: but it was still like homogeneous. Yes, yes, well, the
Speaker 1: funniest ship was like like it was sort of the
Speaker 1: death rattle of hipster culture was probably like two thousand tennish, right, like,
Speaker 1: and so the funniest ship was watching people that went
Speaker 1: to n y you pretend they were hipsters, like dressed
Speaker 1: up in their hipster chic and then hang around Washington
Speaker 1: Square Park. It's like, girl, if you go to n YU,
Speaker 1: you're like, you can't, Like, this is not a thing,
Speaker 1: Like it's come on, embarrassing, embarrassing. I missed New York
Speaker 1: so much. Oh it's it'll be, it'll it's waiting for
Speaker 1: it's been waiting for you. Taylor Swift. How do you
Speaker 1: talk about Taylor? I know, well, but just give some thoughts.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, talk um. I you know, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: a swifty. I love and I really appreciated it. And
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't I don't think hipster could
Speaker 1: be a swift, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: that would have been the antithesis of what it meant
Speaker 1: to be that but you know you probably were definitely
Speaker 1: bumping red at that time. Absolutely, and and like, I
Speaker 1: mean she was such a part of like, uh, the
Speaker 1: counter culture I was experiencing at that time, and like
Speaker 1: and queer people even then were like accessing her. Um
Speaker 1: and and now, um, yeah, this whole era has been
Speaker 1: so fucking good. I mean folklore, Like, I'm still bumping
Speaker 1: it almost every day. Yeah, I only just started spinning
Speaker 1: everywhere all the way through because I wasn't done with folklore.
Speaker 1: I'm almost there, but I'm still putting folklore on before
Speaker 1: I go to bed, just to like wind down, because
Speaker 1: I'm like this, the vibe here is so perfect. I've
Speaker 1: listened to mirror Ball approximately. It's the best song of
Speaker 1: that that whole era. It's it's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: songs She's ever made. Agree And I truly did shrooms
Speaker 1: on Fire Island in July, like and what me and
Speaker 1: Julio were in this this house, locked up together because
Speaker 1: we were like to too scared to do anything except
Speaker 1: to go to Fire Island l O L. But I
Speaker 1: would play mirror Ball and just walk around. I walked
Speaker 1: up the entire done the entire length of the island,
Speaker 1: just listening to Mirror Ball on repeat, and I was
Speaker 1: like truly in heaven, like watching the sunset. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is perfect. I want to go to fire. I was.
Speaker 1: I wanted to get a share for this summer, but
Speaker 1: I think it's like too late already. I don't think it.
Speaker 1: I have news for my for my friends. I have cooling.
Speaker 1: I got a quarter show and we had like one
Speaker 1: week every single month from May to October. You guys, anyone,
Speaker 1: anyone is welcome to come well huge here and I
Speaker 1: will tack you up. I did want to say like
Speaker 1: I'm finally at the point now where I think and
Speaker 1: this is only because like when she announced that Evermore
Speaker 1: was coming out, there was a little part of me
Speaker 1: and Bowen you we talked about this. It was just
Speaker 1: like exhaustion and it was just like a little bit
Speaker 1: like overwhelmed Taylor. It felt so Taylor for her to
Speaker 1: do that, and I was so I feel it was
Speaker 1: so filling Taylor. At that point, I felt on my
Speaker 1: feet on the tailor, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: was just like I was just like ready to feel
Speaker 1: my odes on my tailor. The spirit because Taylor is
Speaker 1: the soul and Taylor is the eyelashes. Yes, and so
Speaker 1: so when she sort of batted the Taylor yeah, um
Speaker 1: is really the way I can describe it, the silver
Speaker 1: on the eyelashes. And so basically, when she batted the eyelashes,
Speaker 1: that's that's what the Disney movie Soul is about. It's
Speaker 1: about us, It's about it. I wish it would have
Speaker 1: been about that. And they followed that's exactly it and
Speaker 1: only and then they create the the best pop star
Speaker 1: of all time. Max Um Absolutely not. You know who is?
Speaker 1: You know who is? My sweet sister bow Well. I
Speaker 1: love I love um Yeah, I love the one gone
Speaker 1: that's bols around the world. He doesn't love the one
Speaker 1: song my head don't Head in my Heart and my
Speaker 1: Head in My Heart is an absolute masterpiece. That would
Speaker 1: listen to that single readers, It's it's phenomenal anyway. Anyway,
Speaker 1: what what I was gonna say was, I'm finally at
Speaker 1: the point now where I've gotten over myself because it
Speaker 1: was entirely coming from me. The calls coming from inside
Speaker 1: the house that had nothing to do with Taylor or
Speaker 1: Evermore and folklore are equals. It is. I cannot pick
Speaker 1: a favorite because Evermore so I put together like a Folkmore,
Speaker 1: which is my favorites from both. Now I've moved on
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to Evermore just straight away through Girl
Speaker 1: Ivy gets slept On. It is one of the best
Speaker 1: songs lyrically she has ever written. Absolutely, and then also
Speaker 1: You're Not The arrangement is beautiful too, Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: a cowboy like Me is so good. Like I'm only
Speaker 1: saying these ones now because this is like at the
Speaker 1: point in the album, like, let me just scroll over
Speaker 1: the track tolerated, Oh my god, Tolerated. From the beginning,
Speaker 1: I've been like, I mean, any track five, I'm like,
Speaker 1: any track five on Taylor, I'm like, even if I
Speaker 1: don't like it the first time, I know that's my problem,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I will like And
Speaker 1: she made it a track five for a reason. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so for me, like Ivy and Coda like Me
Speaker 1: are tracks ten and eleven on a fifteen track album.
Speaker 1: And I was kind of like after Folklore and this,
Speaker 1: that's when I was running out of steam, and so
Speaker 1: I just didn't they didn't hit with me. I was
Speaker 1: just tired. I guess now I am obsessed with these songs,
Speaker 1: and I only really just got around to the fact
Speaker 1: that Closure is about Kim Kardashian and I it's it's
Speaker 1: such a good song that like ends that chapter. Matt,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm sorry to did this in front of Rose,
Speaker 1: but I think next next episode should be should should
Speaker 1: that be the evermore track by track? We can here's
Speaker 1: the thing. We can definitely go. We can definitely go.
Speaker 1: We can definitely track track because I want to listen
Speaker 1: to it. I have I want to hear it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm actually I have to say, like before, like I
Speaker 1: just want I'm so happy to be here, and I
Speaker 1: like I don't want to be I don't want to
Speaker 1: be too like whatever, but oh my god, I'm like
Speaker 1: actually getting a little emotional, you know, like I live
Speaker 1: I live in l A. I live by myself. I
Speaker 1: moved here in July mid pandemic, and like I'm very isolated.
Speaker 1: I live alone, and um, this podcast, Like I listened
Speaker 1: to it all the time because it makes me feel
Speaker 1: like I'm not alone. And I'm almost like I'm almost
Speaker 1: like a little disappointed to be on it this week
Speaker 1: because I won't get to be surprised by a new
Speaker 1: episode and like you too much. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: what y'all do here is really special, and like every
Speaker 1: week that when I listened to you, like feels like
Speaker 1: I'm like hanging out with friends, like being welcomed into
Speaker 1: something like really intimate and fun, and I'm just like
Speaker 1: feel like very happy to get to be a part
Speaker 1: of it. Thank you for saying that, because and then
Speaker 1: cuts me crying hysterically, thank you cancer. I had to
Speaker 1: bring the piss. Okay, So this is what it is,
Speaker 1: because Pisces scorpio cancer. That's very much it um the
Speaker 1: Literally whenever anyone that's as dynamic as you, like any
Speaker 1: queer person says something like that, that just is so
Speaker 1: validating for us. And and so I mean that's literally
Speaker 1: what keeps us doing it. I've listened to the Top
Speaker 1: two Moments of Culture several times all the way through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you know we're approaching to fifty, so we got
Speaker 1: we got to do something about I want to listen
Speaker 1: to like two episodes on the Drive to from and
Speaker 1: Waiting in Line at Raising Kaynes. What's what's raising Keynes?
Speaker 1: Is this like a chicken tender restaurant in l a
Speaker 1: it's like very much like l A drive through culture. Um,
Speaker 1: you gotta come out to you gotta come out to
Speaker 1: l A again. Both, So let's do it anyway. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you for saying that. And yeah, and so now, yes,
Speaker 1: we will do every more next week, okay everyone, And
Speaker 1: then and I want us to let me talk about
Speaker 1: I care a lot for just two minutes. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: at that point I will have something to say about
Speaker 1: it as well. And I have to watch it to sin.
Speaker 1: Have you watched it? To Sin? I have not. I
Speaker 1: haven't watched it. Um everyone's talking about like, everyone is
Speaker 1: talking about it, um, so you know, maybe I'll get
Speaker 1: around to it. I'm not feeling like super pressed to
Speaker 1: right now. I know, like the conversation about it is
Speaker 1: that it's really heavy, and I'm just not in the
Speaker 1: place for that right now. I'm like prioritizing my mental
Speaker 1: health and not like watching things that are super sad.
Speaker 1: I'm whim watching Top Model for like six hours a night.
Speaker 1: That's it, And I love that. I only asked because
Speaker 1: I heard that Neil Patrick Harris plays a bottom, which
Speaker 1: felt like a revolution to me. He's in it interesting,
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's read to see him spreading his wings
Speaker 1: and his whole Let's just move right along from that
Speaker 1: sense too. I guess I don't think so, honey. Huh. Yes,
Speaker 1: wow even and and I feel like in ending this episode,
Speaker 1: we are not ending Rose's time on Last Coach because
Speaker 1: you must return. I feel like third co host energy.
Speaker 1: It's wild. We've had such good guest lately. We've had
Speaker 1: great guests. You really have. The last couple of episodes
Speaker 1: of the podcast have been so fun. Thank you. And
Speaker 1: I'm not including this because I think I'm going to
Speaker 1: be a total flop. I have no this episode. I'm
Speaker 1: already saying as soon as we get off this call,
Speaker 1: this call. But I'm but I'm telling that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is this is a fantastic one. This is really excited.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited. But we'll see how your legions of
Speaker 1: fans respond to it. And I was very happy to Uh.
Speaker 1: I loved what y'all said about me last week, thing
Speaker 1: that I am Taste. I will now be using that
Speaker 1: as my new official bio, I am Taste. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is I don't think so, honey, bon yang, uh,
Speaker 1: this is correct me If I'm wrong. The sixty minute
Speaker 1: sixteen minute. Can you believe? Get a picture of that.
Speaker 1: Get the screenshot of that sixty minute You're right here,
Speaker 1: forever here for three hours at least. Anyway, Um, since
Speaker 1: sixty second segment where we rail against something in pop
Speaker 1: culture that we sorry but hate um and need to
Speaker 1: address in a feverishly critical manner. Yes, yes, I have one?
Speaker 1: Do you have one? I do? Okay, we'll start with you,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna sort of not do the one I
Speaker 1: said I was gonna do before, because I think I
Speaker 1: made that point salient, like, Okay, okay, this is Matt Rodgers.
Speaker 1: I don't think so many as time starts now, I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey, this awards season at all? What
Speaker 1: is a single movie that is up for anything? What
Speaker 1: is Pieces of a Woman? Someone tell me what? Girl?
Speaker 1: What is tonight? I have to watch? Um? A movie
Speaker 1: I barely had even heard of in the conversation, uh
Speaker 1: the United States versus Billy Holiday, It's a It's it's
Speaker 1: a winner as of last night, thrilled that it is huge.
Speaker 1: Andrew day Fan didn't know I'd have to. I didn't
Speaker 1: know was out so many of these ways. I didn't
Speaker 1: know they were out the Award season this year is
Speaker 1: like they senior years long and the Oscars are in
Speaker 1: April deep April. I'm like, how is that? What's gonna
Speaker 1: happen next year? I don't know what is the father?
Speaker 1: What is like? And also everything's on television. What's a show?
Speaker 1: What's a movie? It's really fascinating when you think about it.
Speaker 1: And also I love the joke last night where it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to watch a movie that's two hours long.
Speaker 1: I'd rather watch a TV show that's five hours long.
Speaker 1: I thought everything is sort of sucking with each other
Speaker 1: the forms. Now we're supposed to have the Oscars, girl
Speaker 1: called the super Emmy's because what I don't think. I
Speaker 1: just don't know what. And then things they said we're
Speaker 1: popping off like a month ago, aren't. It's hard to
Speaker 1: track it. Yeah, it feels like the one constant has
Speaker 1: been no mad Land right right, And I don't know
Speaker 1: about that. I'm not watching another Frances McDorman movie. After
Speaker 1: three billboards, there is happening. Feels like your dance cards
Speaker 1: should be full. After dog Wow, you know that that
Speaker 1: phrase has really started to roar back. Oh yeah, it's
Speaker 1: for me. It's very much like that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: note for meat dog. And also no mean I've been saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: saying not a lot. I mean that's a note for
Speaker 1: me dog. How a resurgence I want to say in
Speaker 1: like two thousand and fourteen as well, like it keeps
Speaker 1: sort of like the rhythm of it is really interesting,
Speaker 1: and I have noticed that it's it's making a return.
Speaker 1: American stays footpressed on the girl's nets the way that
Speaker 1: they try. I'm not over it. I'm not over First
Speaker 1: of all, I'm not over any of Katie Perry's fashions.
Speaker 1: And I say this as a Katie Cat who's appeared
Speaker 1: as a co star in her music video Katie K
Speaker 1: you better imagine not being a Katie Cat. How humili
Speaker 1: pop songs of the best When when the chorus hit
Speaker 1: the first time I ever heard it, I screamed, I screamed,
Speaker 1: and I in the words I screamed or Katie's back
Speaker 1: and the music I was music video her with the
Speaker 1: like cry curly wig and like her fucking tits out
Speaker 1: in that amazing flowing gown standing in the middle of
Speaker 1: that field, like the servation, the servation. I also had
Speaker 1: to laugh when she got in trouble for all the
Speaker 1: appropriation she has done. She goes, what's more white woman
Speaker 1: than intense therapy? And the whole song was about therapy.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is so funny. I just couldn't
Speaker 1: believe her pivot. It was a pivot. Indeed, we're happy
Speaker 1: for Katie, I feel and I'm just gonna say this
Speaker 1: out loud. Katie should come on. Oh okay, absolutely should
Speaker 1: Katie should come on. She should. Okay, she loves you.
Speaker 1: You're she did comment l and you are part of
Speaker 1: the Katy Perry Cinematic Universe. Think I'm part of the KPCU,
Speaker 1: and so she should be part of the lc you are.
Speaker 1: You are only some ways the scarlet Witch of the
Speaker 1: KPCU in many ways because I'm really a part of
Speaker 1: Phase four, you know what I mean? This is certainly
Speaker 1: Phase four of Katy Perry and I being the star
Speaker 1: of it. Katy Perry, I'm the multiverse of madness. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And I did get the job through chaos magic.
Speaker 1: I can't talk about how I got it, but it
Speaker 1: was chaos magic. It can only be described magic. For
Speaker 1: Metro would be my vision is really is your vision?
Speaker 1: How get it all along, the staying power that this
Speaker 1: will hand of the summer, Oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: wait for everyone ever used to be blasting it from
Speaker 1: their sucking speakers this summer. And also think about think about,
Speaker 1: oh this is so nerve, this is so the things
Speaker 1: I get nerdy about. No, no, no, Well I loved
Speaker 1: I love that it was them, And my favorite one
Speaker 1: is the nineties one, which is like, um, what is it? Uh?
Speaker 1: You make it it up as we go along. I
Speaker 1: just thought that was such a good parody of a
Speaker 1: song from that time. And I also love that the
Speaker 1: d do do do motif that the like thematic motif
Speaker 1: appears in all of the songs. So that's the kind
Speaker 1: of ship that I like like to nerd out about.
Speaker 1: I watched this really cool. I watched this YouTube video
Speaker 1: and it was just talking about that. I can't wait
Speaker 1: for the Agatha All Along Thunder plus remix. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what there's There's so much opportunity there and for to
Speaker 1: know that Katherine Han is going to have a number
Speaker 1: one dance chart. Absolutely, I'm in the studio working on
Speaker 1: it now. I'm going back to my DJ days and
Speaker 1: I'm going to remix that trick. Yes, yes, you are
Speaker 1: the person to do it. You're the person to do
Speaker 1: I'm actually not I don't have the time or the inclination.
Speaker 1: I also just want to point out I pointed this
Speaker 1: out on Instagram, but I am obsessed with the fact
Speaker 1: that Jane Kasmirik and the cast of Malcolm in the
Speaker 1: Middle are part of the m c U that that
Speaker 1: like Jane has Merik could have disappeared in the Snap
Speaker 1: after Thanos like like like like you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's an actress in the world exactly. That's what I'm like,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. We can I ask a question
Speaker 1: of the two of you, who do you think would
Speaker 1: have disappeared in the Snap. I would have Yeah, he
Speaker 1: would have. And then it would have been like the
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, so bone would have disappeared in the
Speaker 1: Snap and then it just would have been the grief
Speaker 1: of the public would have been so overwhelming just and no,
Speaker 1: it's true, there would have been because of the population,
Speaker 1: like Leaves, there would have been a huge public funeral
Speaker 1: for this hole in the world exactly, and I would
Speaker 1: have There would be some people on Twitter that said
Speaker 1: that they wish it would have been me. Oh my god, wait, okay,
Speaker 1: I have I have to ask the same question about
Speaker 1: Rose and our friend fran Toronto. Between the two of you,
Speaker 1: who would have disappeared? What either of you have? We
Speaker 1: both would have, or or neither of us would have
Speaker 1: that's beautiful or no. It's more likely that I would
Speaker 1: have and he would have worked really hard to fix everything,
Speaker 1: and then I would have gotten back and been like whatever, yeah, good, Okay.
Speaker 1: That's the thing too, is like I I would I
Speaker 1: would be tireless in the crusade to sort of get
Speaker 1: Balang back on the planet, and then he would get
Speaker 1: back and he'd be like, oh god, I'm so tired,
Speaker 1: Like since I've been back, like I'm so stressed out.
Speaker 1: My schedule is so full. Everyone wants to do interviews
Speaker 1: and I'm like, too tired to you can be tired culture,
Speaker 1: And I'd be like, are you fun and kidding me?
Speaker 1: I've been grieving for years, girl, I didn't tell you
Speaker 1: to bring me back. I was fine. I was fine
Speaker 1: off in the soul stone whatever, like floating around being
Speaker 1: actual dust. Also, if I had to go, I would
Speaker 1: love to go in the snap because it looks like
Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt at all. They're just kind of like
Speaker 1: like Elizabeth Olson dying in the snap is like it
Speaker 1: looks like a fucking orgasm. She was like looking at
Speaker 1: the sky like me. But when you come back, honey,
Speaker 1: you talk about a reveal, talk about a shock. Like
Speaker 1: when Monica Rambo came back in the blip or whatever
Speaker 1: they're calling the reverse Snap. I guess they call it
Speaker 1: the blip and she was just like what and then
Speaker 1: she has to realize her mom was dead? Girl? Snap
Speaker 1: me again. I'd rather go back to the snap. Come on.
Speaker 1: That was sad. Yeah too sad? I think all right,
Speaker 1: so after I go usually bone ghost. So Bowen, do
Speaker 1: you have a I don't think so, honey. Yes, I
Speaker 1: remember you said you did have one. Okay, so Bowe
Speaker 1: and Yang this is your I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: and your time will begin now. I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: We're a year into this pandemic and people still are
Speaker 1: fucking around on zoom being like, what are my audio settings?
Speaker 1: How do I change my output? Uh? No, you're a
Speaker 1: fucking bitch to know you've done it many multiple times.
Speaker 1: You're not, you stupid bitch, and this is not even
Speaker 1: just you I've encountered a lot of people recently who are,
Speaker 1: like to our very zoom illiterate. And this is this.
Speaker 1: This does not include the people who like, don't have
Speaker 1: access to technology or don't have any proficiency with that.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about people who have been using the same
Speaker 1: software for a year now and still not knowing how
Speaker 1: it works. You have to start like you catch up
Speaker 1: to the basics. All I'm saying is catch up to
Speaker 1: the baseline so that you don't have to waste any
Speaker 1: time so we can start this podcast on time or
Speaker 1: I'm meeting on time. I'm sick of it. I need
Speaker 1: to want to learn how to adjust their inputs and
Speaker 1: outputs in their audio. And that's one minute. What a
Speaker 1: superior ugly? I don't think so, honey. That was all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, and it was so funny how we
Speaker 1: said in the beginning of the podcast that bone was hot.
Speaker 1: You look so ugly doing that, I don't think, sonny.
Speaker 1: You look toe up ugly. You look like going to
Speaker 1: a taste bitch. And I was discussing and I spit
Speaker 1: it out into the trash. That's what I say to you.
Speaker 1: I feel feel very uncomfortable because I also had zoom
Speaker 1: issues when I came in so this, but Rose had
Speaker 1: resolved her as immediately. Please, no that's not true. That's
Speaker 1: true for nothing, but but but to just take a
Speaker 1: peek behind the curtain here, we actually had to have
Speaker 1: a microphone taken to Rose's house. Didn't even have them.
Speaker 1: Your producer is amazing. She came with a very cute
Speaker 1: dog to my vernment. I got to I got to
Speaker 1: have the dog a little bit. It was she was
Speaker 1: running overall today looking cute. I did feel very important
Speaker 1: having a hand delivered to me, absolutely, And I just
Speaker 1: think it's so superior and very d n C energy
Speaker 1: of Bowen Yang. He is a centrist to sort of
Speaker 1: say these things about um, you know, technical proficiency. It's like, okay, yeah, everyone,
Speaker 1: everyone just figure it out. We've had a year to
Speaker 1: learn this. And Bowen actually wants to say he is
Speaker 1: endorsing Andrew Yang for mayor. So, um, that's exciting. He's excited.
Speaker 1: He's so excited to endorse Andrew Yang, who currently I
Speaker 1: think it is he's stuck on the street on the
Speaker 1: egg trying to get to the Bronx. But otherwise he
Speaker 1: was going to come on at the end of the podcast,
Speaker 1: but he couldn't make it to uh couldn't make it
Speaker 1: to the internet because he's stuck on the train trying
Speaker 1: to get to the Bronx New York. So best of
Speaker 1: UCTO him. He does have Bowen's endorsement, and I think
Speaker 1: it's time for Zoom. You're the andrew ing Zoom. You
Speaker 1: don't know your fucking way around. You're don't ever, don't
Speaker 1: ever do that to me again. You say that you're
Speaker 1: an angel to me all the time, you were your
Speaker 1: feels above incubus to me. Just what you said, that's
Speaker 1: that's really sad that you would have to use the
Speaker 1: word bls about as a negative when we have a
Speaker 1: witch here. Okay, so you're just asked backwards and look ugly.
Speaker 1: So anyway we have this actually is let's get to
Speaker 1: the important ship here. I also want to say before
Speaker 1: we do this, I really appreciate that y'all pronounced my
Speaker 1: last name correctly from the jump. Oh with with the people.
Speaker 1: People really usually don't get that. It's like damo UM,
Speaker 1: and I always sort of explain no, it's like you're
Speaker 1: saying I'm going to dom you. That's what makes it
Speaker 1: so powerful. Thank you for that love it. Um, that's you.
Speaker 1: You really are you really are, allies. I want to
Speaker 1: say that I came in here not being sure. I
Speaker 1: really thought, yeah, this might be rough, this, this could
Speaker 1: be a tough, this could be a tough interview. And
Speaker 1: then I feel like you said, um, you welcomed me
Speaker 1: in here, and uh said, this is where you're meant
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, and it is. And we earned our
Speaker 1: ally ships stripes. You did well. You're both trans now,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yes you will. And no I don't mean honorarily.
Speaker 1: I mean there are your producers coming to your individual
Speaker 1: homes with vials of estrogen for you to inject. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm happy about it and it's and no, this is
Speaker 1: this is and it didn't take you to confer that
Speaker 1: onto us, like this is who we are. Okay, alright,
Speaker 1: So look, this is after Rose has truly dubbed us.
Speaker 1: She's gonna dumb the reader with I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: and it's time to start that Rose, damn use, I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey. Right now, I don't think so, honey. Wine.
Speaker 1: Are you going to tell me that you're going to
Speaker 1: take one of nature's most bountiful fruits the beautiful, brave
Speaker 1: and swash it and stomp on it and let it
Speaker 1: ferment until it turns into this Vina gree acidic alcoholic beverage.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? You couldn't let it become a
Speaker 1: beautiful raisin or turn it into some nice grape juice,
Speaker 1: or just eat it as it fucking came from nature.
Speaker 1: You have to let it turn into alcohol so you
Speaker 1: can get seconds, you can get wasted. And people are
Speaker 1: always telling me, oh, you're not drinking the right type
Speaker 1: of wine. You should drink white, you should drink red,
Speaker 1: you should have them relow. You know what. White gives
Speaker 1: me a headache, Red gives me heart and burn. They
Speaker 1: both give me a horrible feeling and I don't want
Speaker 1: to drink them ever again. And people who based the
Speaker 1: whole personalities around loving wine, like wine culture, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, wine culture. Get a hobby
Speaker 1: like build them up greens that um watch one division.
Speaker 1: I don't know, do something else. I don't think so,
Speaker 1: honey wine. And that's one minute and can just for you.
Speaker 1: I have done one on specifically prosecco, for the exact
Speaker 1: same thing you said, Like, yeah, if you're gonna order
Speaker 1: a prosecco, you might as well just order a fucking
Speaker 1: terrible headache. I I don't. I famously don't like alcohol generally,
Speaker 1: but at least like liquor, I can, you know, you
Speaker 1: can like mix it with something whatever. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: but like wine is disgusting. I think this also kind
Speaker 1: of stems from I one drank like eight classes of
Speaker 1: man of chevits at at a stayer at my grandparents
Speaker 1: house and threw up all over their bathroom. Um, but
Speaker 1: wine is disgusting and just like like wine culture, the culture, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's what, Yes, the culture. Wine culture is not culture.
Speaker 1: If anyone ever asked me out on a date and
Speaker 1: they I mean in the before times, and they're like,
Speaker 1: do you want to go to a wine bar? Do
Speaker 1: you want to go get a glass of wine? I
Speaker 1: have a really lovely sharas at home. Do you want
Speaker 1: to come over and drink it? Uh? I don't know
Speaker 1: the phrase lovely sharas. I would be like, you need
Speaker 1: to go to jailin wine in my transgender home. I
Speaker 1: don't think so, no way, no way that it's just
Speaker 1: you know what it is. It's it's it's exactly what
Speaker 1: you said, it's an excuse for people to sort of
Speaker 1: galivant about and and and pretend they're interesting and pretend
Speaker 1: they know something about something when really all they're doing
Speaker 1: is getting drunk. Sure, sure, now I think you're so.
Speaker 1: Grape is one of the nature's best fruits. Grape is
Speaker 1: one of the most iconic fruit. And that weird. She's
Speaker 1: that girl. She's that girl. There's weird. She is the moment.
Speaker 1: She's got a point. Now. I think there's this crazy
Speaker 1: anti raisin sentiment bubbling up right now? Are you noticing this?
Speaker 1: People are really hating on raisins in recent years. I
Speaker 1: haven't noticed. I haven't noticed a surge towards anti raisin. Stupid. No,
Speaker 1: there's anti raisin culture happening, and it's dangerous and it
Speaker 1: is stupid because raisins are some of the best food.
Speaker 1: That it's a it is a UM. It's invading our
Speaker 1: schools UM. And children need to be educated that raisins
Speaker 1: are a delicious, healthy snack. UM. And grapes seated or
Speaker 1: otherwise are delicious. Two words for every reader listening right now,
Speaker 1: raisin brand. Name another legend. You can name another legend,
Speaker 1: and don't come to me. And don't come to me
Speaker 1: with your honey nut cheerio bullshit. Maybe you want fiber,
Speaker 1: She's serving you fiber for days, fiber down, Raisin brands,
Speaker 1: create power bottoms, and raisin brand, Yes, that's true. And
Speaker 1: also she's giving you a texture medley in your mouth,
Speaker 1: the mouth feel on raisin brand. She's saying, I'm not
Speaker 1: just one thing topped only by like, um, what's that
Speaker 1: honey nut bunches of oats? Girl, I don't, I don't
Speaker 1: even know about that. I love, I love, I love
Speaker 1: a textured cereal if I'm going to have a cereal
Speaker 1: and raisin very much. Really, she has the blue for
Speaker 1: all these other hosts. She is the blueprint. It's actually
Speaker 1: a real culture number seventy. She is the blue for
Speaker 1: all these other hopes, for all these other hosts. And
Speaker 1: I also would like to commend you for being brave
Speaker 1: enough to talk about the violence that goes into wine preparation,
Speaker 1: because it's a lot of something plucking, juicing, you know, processing,
Speaker 1: It's really it's it's not. When I saw Lucille Ball
Speaker 1: stomping on those poor innocent greats, I mean violent, and
Speaker 1: that was the first trauma I experienced, truly yes, I'm
Speaker 1: honest to god, I didn't know wine was made like
Speaker 1: that until that episode of Violet Lucy came on the
Speaker 1: TV at Niked Knight, Oh niked Knight, Nick Knight. I
Speaker 1: mean we could go on for two more hours. When
Speaker 1: Rose has her super villain movie, the cold open is
Speaker 1: going to be her watching Lucille ball stomps. But my
Speaker 1: super villain is gonna I will be an actual villain.
Speaker 1: This will not be like this, will not be like this,
Speaker 1: will not be an apologist rewrite. It will be a
Speaker 1: straight up villain origin story. Yes one. I don't want
Speaker 1: any redeemability, no wine, no thank you, just just cold
Speaker 1: heart cereal little shots because you know what you're well,
Speaker 1: let's not pretend. Let's not pretend we're not. We're at Roses.
Speaker 1: You know, premiere party for the Supervillain Argent movie. Everyone's
Speaker 1: bottoming after so you have to be eating Raisin Brands
Speaker 1: fiber up. Yes, come on, come on, I see it all,
Speaker 1: I see it all. I'm looking the venue. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: wo that's the right around the quarter you're in pre
Speaker 1: pro because I would imagine it's got a budget, a
Speaker 1: budget and a half. These superhero movies, they got a
Speaker 1: budget and a half. Look y'all, this episode, like we
Speaker 1: said last week, roses Taste Taste Stop, and you know
Speaker 1: that it was it was a crack of lack. And
Speaker 1: when you look over at the timer and it's beyond
Speaker 1: two hours, come on, I want to say again, I'm
Speaker 1: just so grateful to be here and you you both
Speaker 1: really have like saved my sanity during quarantine, especially the
Speaker 1: part where I've been super isolated. Like it really just
Speaker 1: like there are nights when I just listened to this
Speaker 1: podcast and I don't feel alone. And that is that
Speaker 1: means that such a wonderful thing that you give to people. Also,
Speaker 1: thank you for that Rose. That means truly the world
Speaker 1: coming from you. We we have loved you from Afar
Speaker 1: for so long and then like and now I just
Speaker 1: feel like I don't know. We're all, We're all, we're
Speaker 1: all pals like within our circles. You know. It's it's
Speaker 1: so we're sister hood, sisterhood, you know, Boon and Yang,
Speaker 1: we do, in act end every episode with a song
Speaker 1: we too, We too, We Too. I killed my fall
Speaker 1: I started because you know that was that was crazy,
Speaker 1: because you know what I was gonna do Dorothy, which
Speaker 1: is like very the opposite vocally, very east coast, west coast.
Speaker 1: I don't know Dorothea, and that's gonna be. That's gonna
Speaker 1: have to be something that changes before next week when
Speaker 1: you want to do a track by track of Evermore,
Speaker 1: Oh goddamn Well. Tune in next week to see learn
Speaker 1: the single words of the album every Moore, Bye Bye,