1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support. 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Happy Friday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: What could we possibly have today? Yes, surprise, Surprise, big 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: special Friday before Crystal takes the kids to school, episode 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: of Breaking Points in honor of a Ford president being 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: criminally indicted for the first time in history. Soacher obviously 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: did a great job yesterday just with the initial breaking news, 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: but we've got a bunch of more details we wanted 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: to bring to you, also some political reaction and our 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: thoughts on the whole situation. So I wanted to make 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: sure to get that to you as soon as possible. 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Before we do those saga remind people about Spotify video. Yes, 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: that's right. If you want to see what our faces 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: look like at six am, so we can get it 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: to you as fast as possible. Go ahead and become 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: a breakingpoints dot Com premium subscriber, so you can watch 24 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: an audio and video on Spotify seamlessly only for our 25 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: premium members. So we appreciate everybody taking advantage of that. 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: But Chrystal, where I left off everybody is where we 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: just had. Literally I think it was like a few 28 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: minutes after the indictment. I just came and did the video. 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: So all I told everyone was that he's been indicted 30 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: and his lawyer has confirmed it. But we've learned quite 31 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: a bit more since then. We actually have even a 32 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: statement from President Trump. Yeah, so we've got a better 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: sense of the timing. Expectation is that he will be 34 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: arraigned on Tuesday. Expectation as he will surrender himself in Manhattan. 35 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: Trump himself has reacted with a couple of statements. First 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: one relatively lengthy, but it is obviously very important signific 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 1: and so I will bless you by reading the whole 38 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: entire thing. He said. This is political persecution and election 39 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: interference at the highest level in history. From the time 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: I came down the Golden escalator at Trump Tower and 41 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: even before I was sworn in as your President of 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: the United States. The radical left Democrats, the enemy of 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: the hard working men and women of this country, have 44 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: been engaged in a witch hunt to destroy the Make 45 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: America Great Again movement. Remember it just like I do. Russia, Russia, Russia. 46 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: The Muller hoaks Ukraine and Ukurini Ukraine, impeachment Hoax one 47 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: and Beeachman Hoax two, the illegal and unconstitutional bar Alago raid. 48 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: And now this. The Democrats have lied, cheated, and stolen 49 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: in their obsession with trying to get Trump. Now they've 50 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: done the unthinkable, indicting a completely innocent person in an 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: act of blatant election interference. Never before in our nation's 52 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: history has this been done. The Democrats have cheated countless 53 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: times over the decades, including spying on my campaign, but 54 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: weaponizing our justice system to punish a political opponent who 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: just so happens to be a president of the United 56 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: States and by far the leading Republican candidate for president, 57 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: has never happened before. He continues Manhattan da Alvin Bragg, 58 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: who was hand picked and funded by George Soros, is 59 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: a disgrace. Rather than stop the unprecedented prime way of 60 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: taking over New York City. He's doing Joe Biden's dirty work, 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: ignoring the murders and burglaries and assaults he should be 62 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: focused on. This is how Bragg spends his time. I 63 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: believe this switch hunt will backfire massively on Joe Biden. 64 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: The American people realize exactly what the radical left Democrats 65 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: are doing here. Everyone can see it. So our movement 66 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: and our Party United and Strong will first defeat Elvin Bragg, 67 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: then be able to defeat Joe Biden, and we're going 68 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: to throw every last one of these crooked Democrats out 69 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: of office so we can make America great again. So, 70 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: going all the way back to the Golden Escalator and 71 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: through the litany of all the whatever that he recites 72 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: in that one, he also released another shorter truth that 73 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: I'll read to you as well and then get your 74 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: reaction about all of it. Tzager. He said, these thugs 75 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: and radical left monsters have just indicated he obviously means 76 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: indicted the forty fifth president the United States of America 77 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: and the leading Republican candidate by far for the twenty 78 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: twenty four nomination for president. He continues, this is an 79 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: attack on our country. The likes of which has never 80 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: been seen before. It's likewise a continuing attack on our 81 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: once free and fair elections. The USA is now a 82 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: third world nation, a nation in serious decline, so sad. 83 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: So you know a lot of the type of language 84 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: you would expect, but notably no calls for protest or 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: death and destruction or anything like that. Yeah, that's right 86 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: for what we currently know right now. As a president, 87 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: Trump is likely to be arraigned on Tuesday, where the 88 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: so called purp walk may occur. What will the mug 89 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: shot look like? I was actually looking at some previous 90 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: politician mug shots. The ultimate question is do you smile 91 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: or not smile? He gave us a very nice smile, 92 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: and given that he also got off in a hush 93 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: money scheme, maybe that's what the Trump I should feel like. 94 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: I feel like Trump is going to go with the smile. 95 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: That's my bet. I think you should go with the smile. Yeah, 96 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: I think you should go with the smile. So in 97 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: terms of the actual charges, I have a little bit 98 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: more detail for everybody here that I can pull up. 99 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: So basically Trump has been indicted on thirty four different counts. Now, 100 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: many of you might be asking how how is that 101 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: even humanly possible whenever it involves a single hush money payment. Well, 102 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: what it turns out is that many of these payments 103 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: were paid in multiple installments. So there is the theory 104 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: right now that every single payment, every installment of the 105 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: payment of the one hundred and thirty thousand dollars given 106 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: over to Michael Cohen itself is its separate criminal charge. 107 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: As they're rolling up into an overall theory of the 108 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: case and the indictment. Another thing that we have learned, 109 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: Crystal is that there ran jury witnesses were also asked 110 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: about Karen McDougall, the right playboy model who was involved 111 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: in the capt and kill scheme with the National Inquirer. 112 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: That is somehow being rolled into this case as well. Yeah, 113 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: so just to remind everybody of those details, because it's 114 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: been a few years, so you could be forgiven for 115 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: having forgotten all of the ins and outs of these 116 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: various alleged affairs. So Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels both 117 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: assert that Trump had affairs. Both of them basically sought 118 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: payment to make these stories go away before the twenty 119 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: sixteen election, and there were two different methods which were employed. 120 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: With Karen mc the National Inquirer actually purchased her story, 121 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: led by David Packers, the head of that outfit, purchased 122 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: that story and then held it in a practice that 123 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: is known as catch and kill. And obviously with Stormy Daniels, 124 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: we had the Michael Cohen payments, hush money payments, and 125 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: that's how that one went down. So Packer apparently was 126 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: a key witness in front of the grand jury. That 127 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: is significant because of the Karen McDougall story. Also because yeah, 128 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: he's kind of a long time Trump confidant and an associate. 129 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: He could speak to Trump's thinking about whether these payments 130 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: were about benefiting his campaign or whether they were mostly 131 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: about other issues like preserving his marriage. And that becomes 132 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: incredibly significant in terms of whether they'll be able to 133 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: actually secure a conviction because of the new unique nature 134 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: of the charges they're expected to bring here, which would 135 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: require a federal campaign finance violation in order for them 136 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: to be a felony. At least that's the expectation. Making clear, 137 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: we don't actually have the charges in front of us. 138 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: Yet we don't have the charge. It's the only one 139 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: that would really make any sense, though, take a step 140 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: back and just I can explain this again for people 141 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: fellowing bookkeeping fraud, and we do know he's been indicted 142 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: with the felony requires not only a bookkeeping error or 143 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: was made, or not only that a bookkeeping cover up 144 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: was made, but that it was done in the commission 145 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: of a second crime. And the reason why this is 146 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: a pretty novel interpretation is that Alvin Bragg has no 147 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: jurisdiction under federal law. This is only jurisdiction under New 148 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: York state law. Under that jurisdiction, federal election law obviously 149 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: is a crime that he is alleging was covered up 150 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: during the bookkeeping. So in the prosecution of that, he's 151 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: basically going to have to say that bookkeeping was done 152 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: in the prosecution of another felony, even though it's a 153 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: felony that I technically do not have jurisdiction over. Now, 154 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: clearly it was enough to pursue an indictment against the 155 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: former president, it was enough for the Manhattan grand jury 156 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: to come through. But the famous quote is and grand 157 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: jury can in dyet a ham sandwich, And you know 158 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: all I have to do is say, well, we have 159 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: kind of a case here at the heart. This is 160 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: going to be at the very, very hard and I 161 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: encourage everybody to get familiar with these details because this 162 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: is going to be at the heart of the entire 163 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: legal defense theory of the case from President Trump and 164 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: from his lawyers. There's going to be a political angle, 165 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about it in a little bit about 166 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: the prosecution and all that, but at the actual like 167 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: will he face charge, will this case even go to trial? 168 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: Is going to be this novel interpretation and yeah, we'll 169 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: save some of our political thoughts for later. Yeah, let's 170 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: just suffice it to say that when we're gotting in 171 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: the weeds about bookkeeping, hush money and all this, that's 172 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: gonna be a tough one for a lot of people 173 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: to digest. Well, you know, I think we'll talk more 174 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: about the politics of it. I think the timing is 175 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: going to be quite remarkable, because you are talking about 176 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's going to be months before this even 177 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: is heard before a judge. The first step will be, 178 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, the judge could throw this thing out before 179 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: it even gets to a jury. That's the what Trump's 180 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: lawyers and Trump himself will obviously be hoping for. So 181 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: there will be months before that even happens. So you're 182 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, the meat of a potential trial 183 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: unfolding right in the heart of a presidential election cycle. 184 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: So it really is an extraordinary event. It's a historic event. 185 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's one we've seen coming for a while. 186 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: But I don't think that should diminish the import of 187 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: what's happening here, you know, and the specter of a 188 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: former president like being potentially handcuffed, fingerprinted and read his 189 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: rights is you know, it's an astonishing moment, however you 190 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: feel about it. And the political reaction has already been, 191 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: of course, all over the map. I think we already 192 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: have a pretty clear sense of how this will play 193 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: in the Republican primary. How it plays in the general 194 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: election is an entirely different question though. So now the 195 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: GOP response, well, meetball Ron materialized, crawled out of his 196 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: hole and actually decided to say something about this. Here's 197 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: what he finally has. He tweets quote and let's put 198 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: this on the screen. The weaponization of the legal system 199 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: to advance a political agenda turns the rule of law 200 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: on its head. It is un American. The Soros backed 201 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: Manhattan DA has consistently bent the law to downgrade felonies 202 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: and to excuse criminal conduct, yet now he is stretching 203 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: the law to target a political opponent. Florida will not 204 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: assist in an extradition request given the questionable circumstances at 205 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: issue with this Soros backed Manhattan prosecutor and his political agenda. 206 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: So a couple of things to say there, Crystal Number One, 207 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: he's bringing out the extradition canard, but after Trump has 208 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: made clear that he's likely to surrender and array in 209 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: to a period. Two, now he's decided now it's not 210 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: silly season. Apparently now he apparently does know something about 211 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: hush money. It's just so clear to me. It's just 212 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: so clear to me that he got the pushback from 213 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: Trump and from the MAGA world to are very upset 214 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: with him, internalized it, and then when the indictment happened 215 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: and decided to come you know, full bore. It is 216 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: interesting too because he doesn't even say Trump's name, which 217 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: almost makes it appear even stranger. It's like talking in 218 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: the third person. But at the end of the day, 219 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: you are still defending Trump. And this just highlights the 220 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: power dynamic of all of this To me at he 221 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: had to spit out because he is the governor of Florida, 222 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: and because Trump is the most popular Republican, and because 223 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: people want to hear this from Ron DeSantis. So this 224 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: just shows me that like the third way, the wishy washy, 225 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: like trying to politically calculate your way through this, it's 226 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: just not gonna work. My read is the same as Arrasagar. 227 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: He had a sort of like natural experiment focus group 228 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: with when Trump announced, like, oh, I'm about to get indicted. 229 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: He failed the test he took in like, Okay, here's 230 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: what people wanted me to do. So this time around, 231 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to do what people told me they want 232 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: me to do, right out of the gates. So it 233 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: definitely smells of like very politically calculated to be the 234 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: most sympathetic to his position that I possibly could. Again, 235 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: there's no good play here, Like there is no good 236 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: response for him, because obviously last time he tried staying quiet, 237 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: that was a disaster. This is probably the best possible 238 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: response he can have in terms of the Republican base, 239 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: But it once again just hands Trump power. So to me, 240 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: this is a microcosm of the issue that he faces 241 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: in the GOP primary overall, which is there are no 242 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: really good moves for him to make. It's an impossible 243 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: position effectively for him to be in at least, you know, 244 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: just trying to take on Trump directly or not take 245 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: on Trump directly. That there is no good move on 246 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: the chess board. So that's kind of how I looked 247 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: at it. But yeah, in terms of the Republican response, 248 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: it was across the board. Glenn Youngkin also came out 249 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: right away and said very similar things. I think I 250 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: saw Kevin McCarthy. You know, this was not a tough 251 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: one for them to react to. Whatsoever. I think the 252 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: way the public will pross us this is going to 253 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: be just a rorshack test of how they feel about Trump. 254 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: We've seen multiple polls at this point that show effectively that, yeah, 255 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: people think you did it. People, even a majority of 256 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: people think that these charges and allegations specifically around hush 257 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: money payments are either somewhat serious or very serious. They 258 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: also feel that it is political, So then it makes 259 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: it kind of a wash in terms of a public 260 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: reaction and does once again come down to just what 261 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: is your pre existing feeling about Donald Trump and whether 262 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: he deserves to be prosecuted. My guess is that we've 263 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time, and I think it's you know, 264 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: this is the case against a former president. I think 265 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense to dig into the 266 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 1: legal details and the you know, all of the landscape 267 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: of what is entailed here. I think for most people, 268 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: they're not actually going to care that much about the 269 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: details of the charges, whether it includes Dormy Daniels and 270 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Karen McDougall or not, or even that much whether it's 271 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: over hush money payments or January sixth and fake elector schemes. 272 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: I think it's more just about whether the person who 273 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: has committed crimes and deserves to be held accountable for it, 274 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: And however you felt about that going in is probably 275 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: going to result in your reaction to these specific charges 276 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: against Trump. So in some ways I have sort of 277 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: changed my view on this a little bit. I actually 278 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: think the details of these particular charges don't matter that 279 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: much in terms of the public I do think that 280 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: these are the ones that are the easiest for Republicans 281 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: to defend, where some of the January sixth faker elector 282 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: stuff would put like Mike Pence and others in a 283 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: more difficult position in terms of how they would react, right, 284 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: And that's why immediately Mike Pence came out and said 285 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: that the indictment is quote in outrage. I even have 286 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: the Glenn youngin tweet you alluded to, you know, the 287 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: most probably center right governor in the entire country. Quote 288 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: is beyond belief that district Attorney Alvin Bragg has indicted 289 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: a former president current president of candidate for pure political gain. 290 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: Arresting a presidential candidate on a manufactured basis should not 291 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: happen in America. Continued to attempt to weaponize our judicial system, 292 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: erode people's faith in the American justice system, and it 293 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: needs to stop. So when you've got Glen Youngkin, Mike Pence, 294 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: vivek Ramaswami, Ron DeSantis, all of those people coming to 295 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: your defense, who do you think the king is? It's Trump. 296 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: And so you know, as you said, in terms of 297 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: how people will digest this, you're talking in a general election, Well, 298 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: if you're a GOP primary voter, you know who the 299 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: number one target is of the latter, Well, that's how 300 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: most of these people vote. And one of the reasons 301 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: that this is worth focusing on is We just showed 302 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: everybody yesterday a Fox News poll that showed Trump a 303 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: fifty four percent strength in the Republican primary. Why did 304 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: that happen? Why did he gain ten percent on a 305 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: month Well, potential indictment was listed as one of the 306 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: main reasons that people were flocking towards Trump, So in 307 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: terms of his primary victory or this has made it 308 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: so much more likely now. Look, of course anything can happen. 309 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: He actually could get convicted, although I don't know, I 310 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: think that it would really hurt, you know, maybe outside 311 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: of black Swans snarios though politically for him in a 312 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: GOP primary, which is really all it really matters right now. 313 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: This is nothing but helpful as you can see everybody's coming, 314 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: Tim Scott's coming to his defense. Nikki, I haven't seen 315 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: Nicko Hilly yet, but every as you said, every standard 316 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: Republican has a take now out there. The only people 317 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: who are you know, not protesting are like Adam Kissinger 318 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: and Liz Cheney, which shows you like he still has 319 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: a hold on ninety eight percent or so. Yeah, of 320 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: the GOP who all have to come to his defense. 321 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: Really in a moment of needed, if you have to 322 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: come to somebody's defense on something like that, then you're 323 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: in a position of weakness and he's in a position 324 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: of Here's another question. I'm curious for your reaction to Sager, 325 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: which is, you know, there was a lot of nervousness about, 326 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, with regard to the January sixth and faith 327 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: elector scheme, potential indictments, there's a lot of nervousness around, like, Okay, 328 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: what does it mean to indict a former present? What 329 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: is the reaction in the country been. Trump has obviously 330 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: tried to frighten those who are looking into charging him 331 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: into thinking like, oh my god, this would just like 332 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: tear the country apart. I'm not sure we can do it. 333 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: And you know, we'd all love to pretend these decisions 334 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: aren't political and that those sort of calculations don't we end, 335 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: but we know that they do. So one thing I 336 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: was wondering is, if you have this first indictment and 337 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: there isn't this huge create the death and destruction that 338 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: Trump is like warning of, does that make some of 339 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: the other individuals, and you know, the Georgia folks or 340 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: the Special Council in Washington, does that make them actually 341 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: less nervous about indicting Trump because you know, the seal 342 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: has already been broken in a way, the dam has 343 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: already been broken, and the country was able to survive. 344 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: So perhaps that sort of encourages them, like, Okay, we 345 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: can move forward with our own charges here, and it's 346 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: not going to be the destruction of the republic. It's 347 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: certainly possible. But at the same time, first of all, 348 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot from what I've seen, you know, 349 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: amongst a lot of MAGA figures, all of them are 350 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: saying like, look, we're not proached, like we're doing to 351 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: do this peacefully. We're going to fight this in the 352 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: legal system. All of that, because I think they feel 353 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: pretty sure that they could probably beat this in a 354 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: court of law. You only have no idea. It's not 355 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: even worth speculation, because you know, it could be that 356 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: they don't protest for indictment, but then who knows, maybe 357 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: the dam would break whenever it comes to conviction, or 358 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: maybe people learn their lesson from January sixth, and they're like, hey, 359 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: you know what, like I don't need to be involved 360 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: in some bs like this, but I will come out 361 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: and vote and make my you know, make it very clear, 362 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: like how I feel it's it's a complete, you know, 363 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: range of possibilities. I genuinely don't know in terms of 364 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, the indictment schedule and all that. The other 365 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: problem though that I could easily show, say is let's 366 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: say that this you know, charged frivolous you know, in 367 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: my view, is one that gets struck down immediately. Well, 368 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: it actually looks more bulletproof and stronger. So then if 369 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: you do come out and you charge him with Fulton County, 370 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: then it's just going to set even more of a 371 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: public expectation, whereas the facts of the case on that 372 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: one are much harder for him. It's or on a 373 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: January sixth one, or even on a classified documents one 374 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: for legally you know, to have some standing. So yeah, yeah, 375 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: this is a good thing. Why why don't we go 376 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: ahead and move to the political section here, because I 377 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: think it's it's worth talking about what the fall this 378 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: might be. So political reactions thoughts, broader takeaways? What do 379 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: you think? Yeah, it's what's your fifty thousand foot I mean, 380 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: the big takeaway is this is a remarkable moment in history. 381 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: I think the impact on the GOP electorate is incredibly clear. 382 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: I think the impact on a general electorate is somewhat 383 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: less clear. I would lean in the direction of listen, 384 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: if you're being indicted and you're on trial for this 385 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: and probably other indictments to come, that's probably going to 386 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: be a bad thing for most for a lot of 387 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: ordinary voters, the type of people who may be persuadable, 388 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: which you know, it's a small sliver in the country, 389 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: but they're determinative at this point. So, you know, do 390 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: I think that these are the strongest charges against Trump? No, 391 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: but you know, you call them frivolous. I wouldn't call 392 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: them frivolous. I think if you or I were engaged 393 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: in these types of schemes husher Maine payments and potential 394 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: campaign finance, like I, we would get hit. Right. So, 395 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,959 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will look at this 396 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: as this is a man who has gotten off for 397 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: so many things, so many times, and they're not going 398 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: to be super hung up on whether this was the 399 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: strongest case against him. They're more interested in if this 400 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: is you know, people who want to see Trump held accountable, 401 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: is he actually going to be held accountable for anything? Ever? 402 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of my you know, that's my 403 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: view is it's going to be a worshack test for 404 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: how people felt about Trump going in, and the actual 405 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: details of the cases matter somewhat less from a political perspective. 406 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: Obviously from a perspective their paramount, but from a perspective 407 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: details of the case matter less that people's existing matter 408 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: on the former resident. I think that's fair. I'll tell 409 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: you why I say fenv of us, because look, he 410 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: is an extraordinary individual. He's not a normal person, even 411 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: oh in the eyes of the lot. Okay. The reason 412 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: that I said it is because, okay, think about the 413 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: politically what he has done here. I actually almost think 414 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: back to impeachment. Do you remember, And a lot of 415 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: people forget this. The highest level of GOP identification in 416 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: the Trump years came at the exact moment that Democrats 417 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: were indicting or were impeaching Trump over the perfect phone call. 418 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: Because look, nobody was saying that the phone call was good. 419 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: We're like, hey, this is not a great thing. That said. 420 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: When you're gonna subject the entire country to the details 421 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: of this of what a lot of people think is 422 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: straight up bullshit, then a lot of people are gonna 423 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: be able to see through this and they're going to 424 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: conclude that one party is not serious and that the 425 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: other person is being unjustly prosecuted. We almost have a 426 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: direct one to one now. The feelings on January sixth, though, 427 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: are very different. So I agree that the details themselves 428 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: don't necessarily matter. But to the small persuadables, you know, 429 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: you're doing yourself a tremendous disservice at a macro level 430 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: by not focusing on the one thing that we know 431 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: that these persuadables are turned off by the absolute most 432 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: and putting Republicans in a tougher spot where they can't 433 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: be completely united. For example, I do not believe that 434 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: an initial Fulton County, you know, DA prosecution against Trump 435 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: is met with the same level of GOP vociferous defense 436 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: of Trump. Maybe some seventy five percent of it, right, yeah, 437 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: but not the one hundred percent that we have seen 438 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: right now. So I think Alvin Bragg has successfully united 439 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: the entire GOP against Trump. You know, I tweeted this 440 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: with potentially the dumbest charge relative to consequence in American history, 441 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: and that is why, like, I look at the charge 442 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: and I just think it's such a tremendous mistake because 443 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: also the likelihood that he beats this charge before a 444 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: judge is very high. It's very high that this case 445 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: does not even go to trial. Politically, also, you're making 446 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: him even more bulletproof, in my opinion, whereas it is 447 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: way harder for him to contest the Fulton County one 448 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: and even the January sixth one in terms of election 449 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: interference or you know, conspiracy to commit to government obstruction, 450 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: although they're you know, legality wise, it could be difficult. Yeah, 451 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: any of those too. I mean, I guess I agree 452 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: with like the broad sentiment of the American people, which 453 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: is that he did it, that the allegations against him, 454 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: theorious that they're not nothing, and also that there were 455 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: politics involved here. Like I feel all of those things, 456 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: and I definitely don't you know, I definitely agree with 457 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: you that of the charges that he is facing and 458 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: of the things that people broadly want to see him 459 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: held accountable for, this one is there's no doubt about it. 460 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: This is the weakest and it's the weakest case. I 461 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: think the timeline of this is all going to matter 462 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: a lot, because remember, it's not like he's gonna this 463 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: is going to be thrown out a court immediately. This 464 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: is going to take months to unfold. Probably in those 465 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: ensuing months, were likely to have additional indictments on January 466 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: sixth on fake life schemes that are also going to 467 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: be you know, working their way through the news media 468 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: and being processed by the American people in real time. 469 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: So I think, like I said, bottom line, in terms 470 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: of how people are going to respond to these charges 471 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: and the potential charges to come, it's all going to 472 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: be through the lens of whether you feel this is 473 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: a person who's basically been lawless, not just in the 474 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: presidency but in a lot of ways around his entire 475 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: life and never been held to account for anything, and 476 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: you're not going to trouble yourself too much with the 477 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: details of like, well, was this the particular strongest case 478 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: against him, because there's a sense this man just operates 479 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: with absolute impunity, that because he has been an elite, 480 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: he's been able to get away with whatever he wants, 481 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: and so you're happy to see a chance for him 482 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: to finally face some sort of penalty for you know, 483 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: crimes that the majority of Americans, even a lot of Republicans, 484 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: feel that he did in fact commit. You're right. It's 485 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: important to understand that a large portion of this country 486 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: hates Trump and genuinely does want to see Hi prison, 487 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: like probably like thirty percent and then equally thirty percent 488 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: or like never want him to see no matter what 489 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: he did, they would no matter what. Yeah, in his 490 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: own words, he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue 491 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: and he would still win. I actually think that's true. 492 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: And then the middle part is gonna be that that 493 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: That's why I can't let it go, because I'm like, 494 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: you know, if this is a game of inches, like 495 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: you really are giving up a lot of the uh 496 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: turf that you would have. You are giving up your 497 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: ability and not managing this in a smart way. Uh, 498 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: We'll see how it plays. I genuinely don't know, you know, 499 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the election. I do know on the 500 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: primary front, he basically just handed him the GOP primary. 501 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: I mean to the extent that he hadn't already, which, 502 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: if you think about it, is a foolish move. You know, 503 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: if you think that Trump actually is some existential threat, 504 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: and now you know, we could be in some Eugene 505 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: Debs situation. But again, you know, it's not supposed to 506 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: consider that it's worth it's worth saying, so just quickly 507 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: on the gene Deb's situation that you reference there, there 508 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: is a possibility of jail time with these charges to 509 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: the extent that we you know, have guesses about what 510 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: the charges are, but it is not mandatory, so he 511 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: would not have to face prison time if even if 512 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: you were found guilty with these particular charges. So I 513 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: just wanted to put that out there. But yeah, it's 514 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's quite remarkable to watch it all unfold. 515 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: I think it's very hard to predict what's going to 516 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: happen in the general election, but I do think it's 517 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: very clear the impact in the Republican primary. This just 518 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: hands a ton of power to Trump and it's almost insurmountable. 519 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: And it makes it so that all the media attention 520 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: and focus is going to be on him indefinitely from 521 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: here on out. So you know, good luck with like 522 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: whatever little bills drawn DeSantis wants to get attention for 523 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: passing through the Florida legislature. No one's going to care, 524 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: even Biden. I want people to understand this. We're back 525 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: in it now, folks. We're in the circus again. It 526 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: is officially silly season, like we are back to the 527 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: We are back to the cameras that are outside the 528 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: you know the thing, the leaks from inside the Trump 529 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: legal team, the Hannity interviews about what's going on. We 530 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: are fully back, you know, in the Trump years. Like 531 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: this is gonna be it now for for months, and 532 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: it's so exhausting. Uh, you know, obviously we will break 533 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: it down and keep everybody informed and all that. But 534 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: this was exactly kind of what the Biden administration, all 535 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: of them, were saying they wanted to move away from. 536 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: And the amount of billions of dollars in earned media. 537 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: He's going to say, get from the amount his name name, 538 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: you know, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, all of that. Like, 539 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: we are fully fully back to the Trump years in this. 540 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: Let me say let go yeah, go ahead, Let me 541 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: say one more thing about that, because I think Democrats 542 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: never learn, they never learned, they still underestimate him. And 543 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: I look, my gut instinct is that charges against him 544 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: and the specter of him being on trial in the 545 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: middle of the present campaign whatever is probably bad for 546 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: him with the general elector. But I genuinely don't know, 547 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: right I think it could it could be wash, It 548 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: could go either way. I think it will be bad 549 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: for him because there's just this like normy, like law 550 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: and order instinct of you know, if you're on trial 551 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: you did something wrong. Is bad. Democrats have forgotten what 552 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: a skillful politician he can be. They have are continuing 553 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: to underestimate him, and so you mentioned like, oh, well, 554 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: this basically hands the Republican primary to him, and that's 555 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: not really great thing for Democrats. I think they believe 556 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: that it is a good thing for them because they 557 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: feel that Ron DeSantis is a stronger general election candidate. 558 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: Rond de Santis certainly thinks that the donors that are 559 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: backing Ronda Santis certainly thinks that the polls mostly indicate 560 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: that as well. Right now too, I'm not sure I 561 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: buy that, because Ron de Santis is just not nearly 562 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: as skillful a politician as Donald Trump, and so hard 563 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: to say who's the stronger general election candidate. But I 564 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: think it is foolish that Democrats at this point are 565 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: actually wishing for Donald Trump to be the nominee once again, 566 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: and has a lot of echoes of twenty sixteen, when 567 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: they thought the same thing. They thought he'd be so 568 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: weak in the general election, they thought it'd be a 569 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: cake walk for Hillary Clinton, and we all know how 570 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: that turned out. So I think we have a lot 571 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: of echoes of history here. I completely agree with you. 572 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: I say this to everybody. Somebody's like, you really think 573 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: Trump can win? I said, Hey, anybody who's in major 574 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: nominee GOP or DEM, they can win. Can't win. That's it, period, 575 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: end of story. You have no idea what's going to happen? 576 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: None Like I could. I could lay out what We're 577 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: almost two years away from election. Who knows what the 578 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: economy is going. We could be at a full blown 579 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: recession and Trump could be running, you know, on make 580 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: America great again. That sounds pretty good. You know, we 581 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: could have a crazy escalation of the Ukraine wore and 582 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: Trump is the only guy who's calling for peace in 583 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: the election, and he gets re elected. You have or 584 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: we could say it the other way. You know, Joe 585 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: Biden's an old man. Yeah, yeah, we don't know what 586 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,479 Speaker 1: the future holds for him. And then even you know, 587 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: if his health even just declines and people or thinking like, 588 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, we're gonna have Kamala Harris as the 589 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: commander in chief. No, thank you. There's a million ways 590 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump, even facing indictment or prison for whatever 591 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: is coming down the bike here, could be walking back 592 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: into the White House. Now, I'm not saying that's a guarantee. 593 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: I do think he's weaker than he was before. I 594 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 1: think he's hobbled by you know this. Certainly people were 595 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: hated stop the steal and hated January sixth, and that 596 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: clearly has been sort of like an albatross around his 597 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: neck with the general public. But never say never, man, 598 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: don't underastimate this man. They always do. They always do. 599 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: That's okay, I guess we talk about Okay. Thank you 600 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: everybody for joining us for our emergency episode here. I 601 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed it. As we said, we got 602 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: Breaking Points dot com if you want to be able 603 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: to watch the show on Spotify as well for all 604 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: of our premium members, and we'll see you all later. 605 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: If there's anything that happens over the weekend, we'll monitor 606 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: it and if necessary, we'll do another breaking thing. We'll 607 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: see everybody later. Bye, yeall.