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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number fifty

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Speaker 1: three Tay in the show, We're joined by Dr Jim

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Speaker 1: Browker and we're talking about extreme dear habitat improvements. All right,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. It is a

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Speaker 1: beautiful day here in Michigan, and hopefully it is where

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Speaker 1: you're at today as well. That said, I'm feeling a

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Speaker 1: little lonely here as I'm actually without my trustee co

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Speaker 1: host Dan Johnson. But it's not all bad news, as

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Speaker 1: Dan's missing the podcast today because his wife just gave

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Speaker 1: birth to their son a few days ago. Yep, it

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Speaker 1: finally happened, and the little guy is healthy, has a

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Speaker 1: full head of hair. Hand, despite what Dan promised me,

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Speaker 1: he didn't name him Dallas fort Worth Jr. So I

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Speaker 1: know I'm disappointed as well, But nonetheless, Dan ought to

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Speaker 1: be back on the show in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just me on the show today, as

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Speaker 1: we have a great guest joining us, and that guest

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Speaker 1: is Dr Jim Browker. Now I can't remember where I

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Speaker 1: first heard about Jim, but it could have been in

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Speaker 1: any number of places. Really. He's been blogging and producing

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Speaker 1: videos about deer habitat improvements on his website for some time.

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Speaker 1: He's been very active with the Quality Deer Management Association.

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Speaker 1: He's been a speaker and presenter at various white tail

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Speaker 1: and management related events, and most recently he actually released

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Speaker 1: his own book called Extreme Dear Habitat. And last year

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Speaker 1: I finally got to meet him when I tended a

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Speaker 1: Cutium May event at his hunting property where he actually

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Speaker 1: gave us all a tour of his property and all

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Speaker 1: the different improvements that he had made for deer, and

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Speaker 1: needless to say, I was pretty darimpressed. And ever since then,

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Speaker 1: I've wanted to get him on the show to share

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Speaker 1: his habitat expertise with all of you, and finally now

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Speaker 1: it's happening. So that said, we're going to dive deep

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Speaker 1: into the habitat improvement projects the gym has used to

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Speaker 1: transform his Michigan hunting property into really a deer hunting mecca,

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Speaker 1: and we'll discuss all the different tactics that you can

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Speaker 1: use to on your very own properties. Now quickly, though,

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Speaker 1: before we start, I have to apologize in advance for

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Speaker 1: some poor audio quality on this episode. My phone connection

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Speaker 1: with the gym was just a little shaky, so at

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Speaker 1: times you might hear some interference. But nonetheless, I know

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Speaker 1: what Jim has to offer in the way of white

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Speaker 1: tail wisdom is well worth a strained ear. So without

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Speaker 1: further ado, let's get Jim on the line, all right

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Speaker 1: with us online? Now is Jim Browker? Welcome to the show, Jim, Hi, makes,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing doing? Doing very well? Um, As

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Speaker 1: you know, I was sick the past couple of days.

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Speaker 1: So today it's it's a much better world. I can

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Speaker 1: I can sit here and comfort again, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm about to keel over dead. So it's a

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Speaker 1: good day. I have to tell you. You may hear

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Speaker 1: me coughing a little bit, a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: dry through, so no problem. I think it's going around

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Speaker 1: those days. Yeah, i'd have a cough for a few

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Speaker 1: days now, Yeah, that's no fun. Well, just before I

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Speaker 1: got you on the line, I gave our listeners a

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Speaker 1: kind of a brief introduction into who you are and

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Speaker 1: how I heard about you. Um, but you know, for

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Speaker 1: those that aren't familiar, can you give us a little

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Speaker 1: bit of background into what it does you do today

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Speaker 1: and how you got into this world of white tail

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Speaker 1: habitat improvement. Well, I was a deer hunter for you know,

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Speaker 1: ever since I was a teenager. I'm sixty five years

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Speaker 1: old now, uh and I was part of the Orange

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Speaker 1: Army really for most of those years. I both hunted

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Speaker 1: a little bit when I was young, um, really most

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Speaker 1: of my hunting because I got my PhD at Michigan

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Speaker 1: State University in nineteen and I um, after that, I

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Speaker 1: lived out of state. I lived in California, I lived

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Speaker 1: in Illinois, I lived in Arizona, and then I lived

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Speaker 1: back in California again. And hunting for me was really

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Speaker 1: a family experience. I would fly back home, like November four,

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Speaker 1: get together with family. The next morning we be out

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Speaker 1: there on a bucket. Or when they began to allow

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Speaker 1: you to hut from trees, we built these big wooden

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Speaker 1: tree stands in the trees and we'd sit out there

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Speaker 1: and uh. So that that was really my hunting experience

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Speaker 1: for thirty to forty years, and it really wasn't until

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Speaker 1: I retired in two thousand six. I retired as a

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Speaker 1: biomedical scientists. I was living in San Diego. I moved

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Speaker 1: back to Michigan and I bought some property and it

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Speaker 1: was around them that I was first introduced to the

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Speaker 1: idea of quality beer management. It all started. We were

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Speaker 1: heard just a typical Michigan farm family hunting situations for

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Speaker 1: all those years, for all those decades. If I saw

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Speaker 1: a buck with legal antlers, I was shooting. That was it.

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Speaker 1: Um that that was the situation for the whole family,

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Speaker 1: and that was a situation for most of the people

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Speaker 1: around this neighborhood here that I live in now there Atison,

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Speaker 1: Michigan and Um. One day we had a wounded thought

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Speaker 1: that we were following, and I walked up on neighbor's

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Speaker 1: property line. I was pacing back and forth, and this

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Speaker 1: guy came out. His name was Eric, and I've known

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Speaker 1: Eric for quite a few years now, but at that

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Speaker 1: time you seem like a really strange character to me,

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Speaker 1: because he came over and said, you know, UM, you

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Speaker 1: really can't track that there in my property. You can

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Speaker 1: go across this field here, but if he goes into Santuary,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to wait until after dark. And I

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Speaker 1: said what's a sanctuary. And I'll tell you Mark, I

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Speaker 1: was completely ignorant about all the keep the young stuff

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Speaker 1: up until the time I was fifty five or fifty six,

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Speaker 1: and I knew I wanted to get into deer hunting

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Speaker 1: and um uh in a serious way, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: know where to go. And Eric was a guy that

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Speaker 1: kind of started me on my pathway to understanding that

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Speaker 1: there was a different way to deer hunt. We talked,

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Speaker 1: and um we ended up tracking that deer in his

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Speaker 1: property and it came back out. But over the next

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Speaker 1: two weeks, Eric and I had several conversations over the

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Speaker 1: phone when he was telling me this stuff that he

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Speaker 1: was trying to grow bucks on his property and he

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Speaker 1: was trying to, uh, you know, only shoot mature deer

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Speaker 1: and he was letting the young deers go. And I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what he was talking about. And I

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Speaker 1: even told him, you know, I don't think you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to do that as long as you have

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Speaker 1: neighbors like us, because the first thing we see and

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Speaker 1: uh uh. And I later learned a couple of years

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Speaker 1: later that I made him so depressed that he thought

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Speaker 1: about selling us property and moving the eye or somewhere

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Speaker 1: and buying property there. But really it was the other

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Speaker 1: way around. UM. I didn't convince him that he couldn't

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Speaker 1: be successful. He started me on a pathway to um

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Speaker 1: being successful myself and changing the way I thought about

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Speaker 1: deer hunts. And really the next step in that moving

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Speaker 1: from an Orange Army guy to a deer habitat guy

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Speaker 1: was meeting my friend Jake Killinger at um UM party

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Speaker 1: for I think was my wife and his thirtieth U

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Speaker 1: anniversary UH high school graduation, and we're standing an environment

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Speaker 1: manitou in down the road here and I met him

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Speaker 1: and he invited me over to his property and he

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Speaker 1: showed me his log book from the prior year, and

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Speaker 1: my experience marked up until then was we was deer

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Speaker 1: hunt and if we were going to see a buckle,

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Speaker 1: is probably gonna be on opening morning in the first

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Speaker 1: two hours, and after that it was going to be

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Speaker 1: hard to see a bot because we walked back there

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Speaker 1: on the property and we ruined our deer hunt with

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Speaker 1: four set control, poor stand approach. We'd hunt the same

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Speaker 1: stands day after day after day, and we just ruined

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Speaker 1: our hunting. And Jake invited me over to his property,

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Speaker 1: gave me a property tour, and I saw his log

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Speaker 1: book from the year before, and he had passed seven

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Speaker 1: bucks on opening morning November fifteen, the year before, and

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Speaker 1: it hit me like a diamond bullet in the forehead.

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Speaker 1: Uh that ah there. It wasn't a problem seeing deer

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Speaker 1: in my neighborhood. He was only a mile as the

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Speaker 1: crow flies from my house. The problem was with me,

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Speaker 1: and I was ruining my deer hunting. And that started

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Speaker 1: me on a journey, and I published a book this year.

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Speaker 1: It felt extreme their habitant, how to shape your deer

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Speaker 1: property with a chainsaw. And that journey was seven years

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Speaker 1: um learning everything I possibly could about deer hunting from

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Speaker 1: everybody I could possibly think of. To learn it, I

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Speaker 1: drove out and visited grant Wood's property. I took Tony L.

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Speaker 1: Pratt's class, I took the deer Stewart classes. I worked

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Speaker 1: with Jake and other guys like my card just and

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Speaker 1: learned and learned and learned. And so I come at

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Speaker 1: this deer hunting thing and writing my book not as

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Speaker 1: a expert deer hunter. I am not an expert deer hunter.

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Speaker 1: What I am is an average guy who figured out

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Speaker 1: how to deer hunt, and I'm teaching other people that

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Speaker 1: if I can do it, anybody can. And I've been

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Speaker 1: very successful the last few years with my deer hunting,

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Speaker 1: but it's only because I changed everything about what I uh,

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Speaker 1: what I did, and how I approached deer hunting on

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Speaker 1: my small properties. And so I come um to this

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Speaker 1: deer hunting world not as an expert deer hunter, but

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Speaker 1: as kind of a journalist or a scholar who decided

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Speaker 1: after I got done. I approached it, uh this just

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Speaker 1: as I did any other project that I had in

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Speaker 1: my scientific career. I approached it as a project. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna learn this, I was going to figure it out,

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Speaker 1: and h then I was you know, I did really

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Speaker 1: didn't know in the beginning, but I ended up then

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Speaker 1: teaching other people that if I can do, what they can.

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Speaker 1: And so that's kind of where I'm at today. I've

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Speaker 1: read my book and I'm trying to help other hunters

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Speaker 1: to have the kind of experience that I'm having today.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome, I think that's I think that's an inspiring

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Speaker 1: story for a lot of people who probably were in

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Speaker 1: very similar situations to your own. I mean, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a similar situation to that, UM with the

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Speaker 1: Orange Army and just kind of shooting the first thing

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Speaker 1: you saw. And uh, you know, just by diving in,

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Speaker 1: you know, head first and learning everything you possibly could,

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Speaker 1: you've been able to change your situation. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's something that so many other people need to hear

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Speaker 1: and and remember that. It doesn't you don't need to

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Speaker 1: be born into deer owning royalty or you know, being

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Speaker 1: a perfect situation with thousands of acres of property or

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Speaker 1: know everything. You just need to try hard, learn a lot,

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Speaker 1: and give it your best shot, and you can you

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Speaker 1: have that, you can have a much better quality. Anybody

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Speaker 1: can have a much better quality. Dr hunting expres even

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Speaker 1: on a very small property. Most of the things that

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Speaker 1: go wrong with deer hunting where people go out there

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Speaker 1: and say all day and don't see anything in most situations,

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Speaker 1: they've created that. Yeah, so i'll post approach from that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah. So there's about a million things

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Speaker 1: I want to dive into that you've already touched on here, UM,

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Speaker 1: but I think I want to start at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning with something you mentioned being the book you recently

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Speaker 1: released earlier this year. I think it was extreme dear habitat.

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Speaker 1: So what do you mean by that extreme dear habitat?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Well? Um, the reason I named

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Speaker 1: the book Extreme Deer Habitat is because that's what I'm practicing.

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Speaker 1: I'm practicing something different than most q DM practitioners practice. UM.

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Speaker 1: The problem UM that I see when if you want

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Speaker 1: to optimize your deer hunting, you don't want to listen

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Speaker 1: or follow the principles that are usually talked about in

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Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management. And I'm not talking all of the principles,

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Speaker 1: but some of the principles. And the reason is that,

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Speaker 1: UM people tend to when they start out getting into

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Speaker 1: q d M and they've got let's say they've got

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Speaker 1: a forty acre property and it has a ten acre

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Speaker 1: woodline on it. Uh, they get on the q DM

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Speaker 1: A forums and they say, oh, I got my little

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Speaker 1: slice of heaven? What do I do with it now?

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Speaker 1: And you'll have ten guys come up and say, well,

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Speaker 1: you need to hire a forester. And UM, if you

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Speaker 1: hire a forester, what he's going to teach you how

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Speaker 1: to do is grow trees. And as long as you're

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Speaker 1: growing trees, the leaves are more than four ft off

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Speaker 1: the ground. You're not. You're you're being suboptimal for deer habitat.

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Speaker 1: So extreme deer habitat means that you've decided that you

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Speaker 1: bought your property mainly for deer hunting. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you're not going to use it for a dozen other things,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean you're not gonna grow some timber

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Speaker 1: on it. But it means you've fought through what's most

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Speaker 1: important to you about your property. So if I have

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Speaker 1: a forty acre property and has a ten acre um

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Speaker 1: woods on, I'm not going to manage that woods to

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Speaker 1: grow trees and harvest them every twenty or thirty years.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna grow it. I'm going to manage it so

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Speaker 1: that I can harvest a deer that's in the upper

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Speaker 1: ten percent of the deer in the property every year.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to manage it very much differently than

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Speaker 1: I would if I'm doing timber stand improvement and timber management.

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Speaker 1: So that's really the basis for where I says extreme

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Speaker 1: deer habitat is taking your woods and turning it into

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Speaker 1: an old field type habitat. I visit lots of properties

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Speaker 1: in Michigan and elsewhere in the Midwest and uh and

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Speaker 1: throughout the country. And the typical thing I see is

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Speaker 1: a woods or wood lot that is useless or deer.

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Speaker 1: It has canopy of trees. The trees are all grown up.

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Speaker 1: They're going too close together. It's not good for timber management.

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Speaker 1: It's not good for deer huntings. You can improve it

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Speaker 1: by doing timber management. So if you do timber stand improvement,

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Speaker 1: you thin out those trees, the woods will be thicker,

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Speaker 1: but you will not have optimized that woods. If you

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Speaker 1: want to optimize the woods, you're going to take out

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Speaker 1: most of the large trees. You're gonna hinge cut the understory,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to create deer habitat, which means that

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Speaker 1: you cannot see more than twenty or thirty yards to

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Speaker 1: it in the dead of winter. That's the kind of

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Speaker 1: woods the deer wants to be in, especially a mature deer.

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Speaker 1: In h hunting seasons, hunters tend and I tended to

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Speaker 1: do this for many decades. They tend to want to

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Speaker 1: be in a spot they've got a rifle in their hands,

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Speaker 1: let's say, are they've got a shotgun and they can

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Speaker 1: shoot that gun seventy to or even three yards, and

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Speaker 1: they want to be in a wide open spot where

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Speaker 1: they can see to shoot those deer, and they think

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Speaker 1: they'll see and shoot more deer if they do that.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely false. And if you're in a pressured area

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Speaker 1: like Pennsylvania, in Michigan or Wisconsin, you're probably not going

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Speaker 1: to see any deer during hunting season if you put

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Speaker 1: yourself in a spot where you can see that far,

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Speaker 1: or if you do see them, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: see a mature deer. But we're really taking our property

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Speaker 1: and creating as dense and thick a habitat as we

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Speaker 1: possibly can, and that's an extreme deer habitat. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong whatsoever with somebody deciding that they want to manage

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Speaker 1: their property for timber, But once they do that, they

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Speaker 1: have to understand that they're not managing it optimally for deer.

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Speaker 1: There may improve it for deer, they're not managing and

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Speaker 1: not optimally. So that's what I mean by extreme dear habitat,

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Speaker 1: and I call it the timber improvement. I call it

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Speaker 1: extreme deer habitat improvements. So when we do that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. So I was going to say, I can

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Speaker 1: definitely test to to what you just said about the

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Speaker 1: things you're doing. Because I was fortunate enough last spring

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Speaker 1: to get to attend a CUTIU May event on your

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Speaker 1: property where you actually give us a tour of your

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Speaker 1: own property, and myself and a friend that came women

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Speaker 1: that we were both amazed by the amount of work

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Speaker 1: you have done in your timber um. Just a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of number of projects that you did and a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things that went on in there. And

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Speaker 1: it seemed, you know what, kind of fascinating me the

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Speaker 1: most was that it all seemed to be with a purpose.

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Speaker 1: It didn't seem like you were going there and cutting

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Speaker 1: anything haphazardly. It seemed like you really looked at everything

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Speaker 1: on your property strategically and you thought about how all

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Speaker 1: these different things would work together to achieve your goal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had a number of people want that property with me,

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Speaker 1: and I got ideas from as many people as I

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Speaker 1: couldn't laid it out with a plan about exactly how

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Speaker 1: we were going to make the deer move on that property.

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Speaker 1: So so that said, then Jim to I guess start

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Speaker 1: us off this journey where I really want to go

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Speaker 1: deep into all this, But can you take Guess to

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Speaker 1: the very beginning in your case with your property. But

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Speaker 1: let's talk about how this might be applicable as someone

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Speaker 1: else's listening right now, maybe they have their own forty acres.

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Speaker 1: How do you start this process? You've got a blank

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Speaker 1: slate essentially, how do you look at your property and

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Speaker 1: then start making decisions? You know, what do I do?

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Speaker 1: How do I start? Well? The property event you UM

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Speaker 1: did the tour that That is a forty eight five

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Speaker 1: acre piece that we did the tour on, which is

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Speaker 1: part of a larger hunt. I bought eight five acres

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Speaker 1: of that in two thousand and seven. And when you

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Speaker 1: would go out and hunt in that property, I could

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Speaker 1: sit there was a twenty five acre crop field and

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Speaker 1: I could see um. Typically every evening, around an hour

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Speaker 1: before dark, I would see three doll families come out

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Speaker 1: into that field, and UM, they would each be in

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Speaker 1: a separate corner. And two of those doll families lived

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Speaker 1: on my neighbor's property and one of them lived on

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Speaker 1: my property. But if I wanted to hunt those three

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Speaker 1: doll families, I wouldn't have to to trade my property

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Speaker 1: hundreds of yards in. So I would be doing it

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Speaker 1: like a traditional hunter does, which is to find out

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Speaker 1: what the natural pattern of the deer is and then

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Speaker 1: set up in between the betting areas and the food.

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Speaker 1: And that's what hunters do when they go up in

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Speaker 1: the National Forest or State forest and Northern Michigan and

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Speaker 1: they go out in scout and they find out where

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Speaker 1: the deer betting, and they find out where the deer feeding,

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Speaker 1: and they sit in between those areas and and if

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Speaker 1: you're really good at it, you can move in on

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Speaker 1: the betting areas and you can do all the fats.

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Speaker 1: These expert hunters uh like um uh, you know, these

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Speaker 1: skilled state land hunters like John Um. I'm having a

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Speaker 1: mental block um the little bow hunting for white tails.

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Speaker 1: But his expert hunters like John Um, they can go

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Speaker 1: out and scout deer and then move in on them

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Speaker 1: in Kelvin. And that's what you would have to do

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Speaker 1: on a property like that, uh, is to figure out

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Speaker 1: where the deer movie. So what did we do Without

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Speaker 1: forty five acres? I bought in additional forty five acres.

348
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Speaker 1: They had a wood and an old field next to

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Speaker 1: the woods, and that woods was useless for deer hunting.

350
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Speaker 1: You could see three hundred yards through it. So we

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Speaker 1: went and we decided we're going to create a situation

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Speaker 1: where instead of having to scalp the deer and figure

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Speaker 1: out where they're coming onto the property, we're going to

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Speaker 1: create a betting situation on this forty five acres, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to create a feeding situation in five acres,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to create transitional zones in between, and

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Speaker 1: then we're gonna try to harvest deer in between the

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Speaker 1: betting and food. So the first thing we had to

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Speaker 1: do is go in and cut that woods. And I

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00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 1: took um timber out of that woods. I took about

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Speaker 1: seventy five logs out of it and sold. I got

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Speaker 1: good money for the black walnut, and I got almost

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Speaker 1: nothing for um the other trees, which were hard maples

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Speaker 1: and soft maples and ash trees and that sort of thing.

365
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Speaker 1: But um, we got all that cleared out, and then

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Speaker 1: we went in enhance, cut in and created betting areas

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00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: in there, and I go into link. There's three chapters

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Speaker 1: in my book about how to use the chainsaw to

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Speaker 1: improve their habitat and how to create those betting areas.

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Speaker 1: So we hinge cut that woods and now we can

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Speaker 1: house three to five doll families on that forty five acres.

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Speaker 1: Instead of only hunting for three doll families that are

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Speaker 1: spread out all over an eighty five acre piece, we're

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00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 1: taking them in, concentrating them down, and getting them to

375
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,959
Speaker 1: bed on that area by creating the habitat that they

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00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: want to bet in. And that's just one little corner

377
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Speaker 1: of the property. So that other eighty five acres that

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00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: I originally brought also has three other sections just like that,

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00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: each of which have their own betting, each of which

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00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: have their own food sources in each of which have

381
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: ambushed our locations in between. But we are not going

382
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Speaker 1: out and gulling the property and figuring out how to

383
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: hunt it. We're telling the deer exactly where to bed,

384
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: and then we're setting up on the exact path that

385
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: we know they're going to take the food. Because dear

386
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: only there's really only three things that that dear do.

387
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: They sleep, they eat, and for one day a year,

388
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: two days a year that those are interested insects. The

389
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: box are interested insects for three or four months. But

390
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: those are the only three things that are in their world.

391
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: That's all their interestedness is procreation, food, embedding. And so

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00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: if you understand those three things that are driving them.

393
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Speaker 1: You can set your property up to get the deer

394
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: to move exactly the way you want, so um going

395
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: into a woods like that one of the things that

396
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: a landowner has to think about. And this is why

397
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: I caution people unless you want to, unless your main

398
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: reason for owning the properties and grow trees, don't bring

399
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: a forester in first, because the forester is going to

400
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: tell you that you want to preserve. For example, black

401
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: wallnut's on my property, I have v nearer. I have

402
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: the neer black walnut logs that I could get three

403
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: to five dollars for. If you want to do that

404
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: and wait another fifteen or twenty years for the next harvest,

405
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: that's great, but you're not gonna optimize der hambitat because

406
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: a black walnut does zero for deer habitat. In fact,

407
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: it's a negative black walnut. That most priced tree that

408
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: I cut in my work is useless for deer habitat.

409
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: In fact, it's a negative for deer habitat. And the

410
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: reason for that is one, if I'm going to grow

411
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: a tree and get it to be big and tall

412
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: and straight, it's going to have a big canopy and

413
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: it's going to shave things out under it. The second

414
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: thing is that it creates. It produces a toxin to

415
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: other plants, a earth side called juglan, which is released

416
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: all around the drip line of the tree so that

417
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: plants don't grow up very well underneath it. There are

418
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: a lot of species that are suppressed. So the most

419
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: price tree in my woods or ember is the least

420
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: price tree for deer. Now, um that forrester will tell you,

421
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, you've got some molaries going up there, you

422
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: need to kill them. You've got some bass woods growing here,

423
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: you need to kill them. Uh and uh, you know,

424
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: um a variety of other trees that are not prized.

425
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: Those are baselard tree is golden candy to a deer.

426
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: It's chocolate candy to a deer. There's nothing more I

427
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: want in deer habitat than if I cut a baslard tree.

428
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: Then they have basswood shoots growing up from the stump.

429
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: But the forester is going to tell you to kill

430
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: that because it's competing with the black walnuts or the

431
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: white hulks or whatever other trees they priced. So the

432
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: list of trees that you would make on your property

433
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: that you want to propagate or timber is it probably

434
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: a completely different list of trees then you would want

435
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: to propagate for deer. And if the junk trees for

436
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: the most part that we want for deer, hambitats, the

437
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: box elder tree, the mulberry tree, the basswood tree. So

438
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: when we go into that woods, we're thinking completely differently

439
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: about it because I only ownty acres there. I'm not

440
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: going I'm going to go in and take the timber

441
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: out of that twelve acre woods. And that's the last

442
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: time I remember going to grow timber in it because

443
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: I prized deer more than I do timber. And so, uh,

444
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, we create that betting area where we're optimizing.

445
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: And now you know, if you look at that area,

446
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 1: there are hundreds of basswoods growing in it. They've been

447
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: going there the last um, you know, the youngest basswood

448
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: in that woods was probably fifty years old. And the

449
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: reasons there were no deer fifty years ago in southern

450
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: Michigan to speak of. They started growing up, you know,

451
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties. And once um, the deer population

452
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: goes up, you can't grow a bastoot tree. They love

453
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: them too much. They eat all those bassoods. When you

454
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: come in and get rid of all the other trees

455
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: that are shading things. Now I have hundreds of bath

456
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: foot ceilings coming up in there, and I can feed

457
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: those geer. I've taken that woods which probably produced about

458
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: one two hundred pounds of woody brows per year, and

459
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm now probably producing somewhere in the realm of two

460
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: thousand pounds breakers. So I've got ten times as much

461
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: food for the deer there, and it's food they badly need,

462
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: because the thing that's most lacking on these farms in

463
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: southern Michigan is wooden brows, which has to be uh

464
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: close to years diet. I'm providing that for them my

465
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: neighbor's signs. So to start with, that's the betting part

466
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: of the woods. We want to have a betting area

467
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: with lots of cover. The deer can't see more than

468
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: thirty yards. They're safe in there, they're secure. We have

469
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: lots of spots raked out for them to lay down in,

470
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: and um there's lots of brows in there. Because the

471
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: dull family wants to be in a spot where the

472
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: funds can eat during the daytime. If they're in a

473
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: barren spot that doesn't have any food, those spots are

474
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: going to get up and move away and try and

475
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: find the nearest foods. So we're providing lots of food,

476
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: but it's not the highest quality food now, Jim, Yeah, alright, alright,

477
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: if yours bringing my back talk, no, no, I love it.

478
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you a quick

479
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: kind of fault question then before we leave this topic,

480
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: when it comes to creating these really thick betting years

481
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: that you're talking about here, Um, you know, there's there's

482
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways I've heard about doing this.

483
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: You can hinge cut, you can clear cut, you can

484
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: crush brush, you can selective harvest. You know, what would

485
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: you recommend the right option to be of all these

486
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: different ways you can improve a timber stand? What's your

487
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: your improvement of choice? Well, um, you know, the biggest

488
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: thing in states like Michigan and in really over the

489
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: last um several hundred years has been clear cutting. Clear

490
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: Cutting is just a wonderful thing that you can do

491
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: to improve your habitat. And um clear cutting and um

492
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: deforestation was responsible for creating the heyday of Northern Michigan

493
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: deer hunting. But um, not enough of it's being done today.

494
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: Clear cutting is great, but when you clear cut and

495
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: you remove everything, you have to wait three to five

496
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: years to get re establishment, regeneration of uh the understory.

497
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: What you want to create and what clear cutting, for example, creates,

498
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: is an environment where three to five years later you

499
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: have this thousand to two thousand pounds per acre of

500
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: woody browsing. You have all this cover, but it takes

501
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: that long to do it. Enge cutting is something that

502
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: you can go into a woods that's open and park

503
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: like and that night you can have provided betting for

504
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: deer by hinge cutting those trees because you're leaving the

505
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: structure behind. The only difference between hinge cutting and clear

506
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: cutting is with hinge cutting, you're cutting the tree about

507
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: through the tree and getting it to fall over and

508
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: keep it alive, and you're leaving that structure there. What

509
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: you're doing, and Dr James Curl talks about this a

510
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: lot is moving the food from the top of the

511
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: canopy fifty ft off the ground down to five feet

512
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: and lowers and both a number of these techniques will

513
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: do it. Timber stand improvement classical timber stand improvement will

514
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: improve the amount of food and cover in the understory.

515
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: H hinge cutting will improve it infinitely more um to

516
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: the maximum amount that you can possibly do. Clear Cutting

517
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: will do the same thing, but the differences you have

518
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: to wait three to five years for clear cutting. And

519
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: I've even seen areas in northern Michigan and high populations

520
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: of deer up and Northeast Michigan and the TV zone

521
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: where people have clear cut seven years ago and the

522
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: deer do not let the stuff re established. They come

523
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: in winter and chew it all back down to three

524
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: or four inches. Or you can do a clear cut

525
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: and never ever haven't regenerate, depending on what the size

526
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: of population is. The difference hinge cutting is Um you've

527
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: tipped a tree over. Uh, it's it's still alive. It

528
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: has a giant roofs system still feeding it, and it's

529
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: bringing up nutrients from way down below the soil. And

530
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: Uh you have an instant cover. So deer will come in.

531
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: I swear mark they in the winter when we're hinge cutting.

532
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: They hear the chainsaw running and they're waiting, waiting, waiting

533
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: uh to get in there. Uh. The record UM for

534
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: doing a hinge cut in January was last year. We

535
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: had deer yarding in the area, and from the time

536
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: I stopped sawing and walked away, it was six minutes

537
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: later that there were deer in their feeding. So, Um,

538
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: if I skidded all those trees out in a clear cut,

539
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be anything there for the deer for the

540
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: next couple of years. On small properties where you have

541
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: the small wood lots that we have here in southern Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania,

542
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: you name it, Iowa. The hinge cutting I think is

543
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: usually going to benefit you more than either a t

544
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: s I or a clear cutting. Well, so would that

545
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: be the case then, Jim, When it comes to hinge cutting,

546
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: this is the topic that has been been getting talked

547
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: about quite a bit the last you know, five years

548
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: or so or maybe longer. Um. And I've I've even

549
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: tried and had some success with it, but I know

550
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: I could have done it better. Um. You're a guy

551
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: who I know has really become an expert on hinge cutting.

552
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: You've you've given demonstrations and UM, you know talk to

553
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: numerous people about how best to do this. So can

554
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: you walk us through in detail how do you perform

555
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: a perfect hinge cut? Well, then let me talk about

556
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: the mistake that most people make. There are two or

557
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: three major mistakes they make. People cut too far through

558
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: the tree. Most of the time. What you want to

559
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: do when you hinge cut is make a perfectly flat

560
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: back cut, go about se of the way through the

561
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: tree maximum. Uh. Let's suppose the tree is leaning forwards.

562
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: And let's suppose you have a six inch diameter tree

563
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: and it's leaning forward. What people tend to do is

564
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: cut into the tree and keep cutting until that tree

565
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: starts to fall over. Um. That's fine if you want

566
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: to tree a break off and fall on the ground,

567
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: But if you want to tree to remain attacked. Uh.

568
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, I do those kind of cuts

569
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: a lot a lot of times, I'll come into the

570
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: woods and I'll just cut with the lean of the

571
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: tree and let them fall over. And I don't care

572
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: if the tree survives or not because I'm trying to

573
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: get out the canopy, or I have some other reason.

574
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: I'm trying to create a bar years own or something

575
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: like that. But if I want to preserve the tree,

576
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to cut until it falls on its own.

577
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: That's the number one mistake. People want to make it

578
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: easy for themselves. They want to cut through the tree

579
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: and have a fall of its lean and it falls

580
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: over and they go boys, those darn maple trees just

581
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: don't hold together. Well, yes, maple trees do hold together,

582
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: even soft maple, silver maples and things like that. But

583
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: you have to stop before the tree falls on its

584
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: own and make the tree go over. And so if

585
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: I have a forward leaning tree, I'm going to cut

586
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: through until I know I'm just about to the point

587
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: where that tree wants to release, and then I stopped.

588
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: And if that tree leaning backwards, I do the same thing.

589
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: And I have um uh in my book illustrations of

590
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: this where I cut into a tree and the tree

591
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: wants to fall back towards me. I stopped cutting before

592
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: it falls back towards me. And I'm going to get

593
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: that tree to make a soft fall. And I'm going

594
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: to do that one of two ways, either using a

595
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: wedge uh. And you can buy these wedges at Tractors

596
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: Supply and you can buying from Cheryl Tree. There are

597
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: lots of sources for these plastic wedges. A plastic wedge

598
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: will move the top of a fifty foot tall tree

599
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: up to twelve depending on the diamond of the tree.

600
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: So a tree can be leaning back quite a bit

601
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: and you can move it and tip it over by

602
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: using a wedge. In fact, almost every tree I cut,

603
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: if I'm not sure that it ASTs forwardly, it's going

604
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: to get a wedge in behind my saw as soon

605
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: as I can. If it's a smaller tree, we're gonna

606
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: cut about sev the way through. It's not going to

607
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: fall over even if it's leaning forward, it's not going

608
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: to fall back onto my so office leaning back because

609
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm stopping soon enough, and I'm using that wedge, or

610
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm using a very powerful tool called a hinge tool,

611
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: and these are available here in Michigan from a couple

612
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: of different sources. It's about I don't remember how long.

613
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: It is, twelve ft or so long, uh ten twelve

614
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: ft long, and it's got a hook on one end

615
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: that you can pull a tree over with, or it's

616
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: got a reverse hook that you can push a tree

617
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: over with. And that's how we're gonna get the tree downe.

618
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: And by stopping, we're um we we're by stopping before

619
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: the tree falls over in its own we're leaving enough

620
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: wood so that the tree is going to hold together

621
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: when we push it over, it have a much higher

622
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: probability holding together. The other thing we are doing is

623
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: we're always trying to get that tree to have a

624
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: soft landing. If that tree falls all on its own

625
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: in the top, it's the ground, it propagates an energy

626
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: wave and sends it back up the trunk and breaks

627
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: loose the hinge. So we wanted to fall, and we

628
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: oftentimes landed on another tree that we've already cut the

629
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: top of the tree or the trunk, or we're brushing

630
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: it down through smaller trees and getting it to fall

631
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: as slowly as we can. If you want your hinge

632
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: to hold together, that's how you're gonna accomplish that. Okay,

633
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: So kind of tying up things with hinge cutting. Here

634
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: I knew or what I've seen you do on when

635
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: I toured the property was he used his hinge cuts

636
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: and other improvements to actually make individual buckbeds. It looked

637
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: like betting areas on your property. Can you tell us

638
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: why you make those individual beds and then how do

639
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: you specifically do that? Well, we we make the main

640
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: focuses on dough beds. We want dose to be betting

641
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: in the property. And let me just parenthetically talk about

642
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: quality deer management. I think one of the greatest sorrows

643
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: in hunting is that most hunting is taught by trophy hunters,

644
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: and they have almost nothing to teach the average hunter

645
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: that's gonna walk back on his fort acre property. They

646
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: have almost nothing to teach because the techniques that they're

647
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: using the properties are hunting on have nothing to do

648
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: with what the average guy. This average guy wants to

649
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: walk back in his property and hunt, you know, eight

650
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: or ten or twelve times. And you have expert deer

651
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: hunters that you've interviewed who say, you know, I only

652
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: hunt a spot tour or three times because i know

653
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wreck it and I'm going to move on

654
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: to the next big buck in the next county or whatever.

655
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: Guys like Dan Infall great hunters. But you know, the

656
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: average guy did not scout out thirty different bucks all

657
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: around the state of Wisconsin, and he's gonna hot one

658
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: for two or three days and then he's going to

659
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: move to another county and hunt the other buck that

660
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: he's scouted the end of the county. Because he's out

661
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: there two hundred days a year scounting. This guy wants

662
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: to walk back in his property and hunt the same

663
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: stand eight, ten, twelve times during gun season and still

664
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: see deer. And so for that, you're not controlling the bucks.

665
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: You're controlling the dolls that I call quality deer hunting.

666
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: We have quality deer management, but I haven't seen a

667
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: lot of quality deer hunting taught. So a trophy hunter

668
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: is hunting for bucks. The quality deer hunter is also

669
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: hunting for bucks, but he's doing it by putting himself

670
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: in a situation where he's controlling the dough movement on

671
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: his property. And if you control the doll movement on

672
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 1: your property, you're gonna see box. So where a big

673
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: buck hunter might go to my property, I have a

674
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: creek bound there and I know beyond a shadow, but

675
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: doubts that those bucks are going to follow that creek

676
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: h during the rut for one to three miles. And

677
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: if I sit down there and wait day after day,

678
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: I might not see more than one or two deer

679
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: a day, but eventually I'm going to see a big buck.

680
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: Most people don't want to hunt like that, So what

681
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: we're setting up is controlling the deer. So most of

682
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: our betting focus is on controlling the dose. We want

683
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: the doze betting. So that's little woods you saw on

684
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: my northeast quadron Acres. Was managed to get three or

685
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: four doll families living in that woods, and they do.

686
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: On any given day I hunt there, I can expect

687
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: to see three or four day doll families leaving that

688
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. And let me just say, when I

689
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: talk about this quality deer hunting, and I know you

690
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: want me to talk about hinge cutting, but this is

691
00:37:54,080 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: a really important topic. I'm hunting uh dose dope family.

692
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: I want to know exactly how they're moving out of there,

693
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: and I want to control their movement. And what's going

694
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: to happen is I'm putting the dough beds in there,

695
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: and then I'm getting them to come out towards the food,

696
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: and then the bucks are gonna move perpendicular to the

697
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: does to check out each doll families that's coming out.

698
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: So we're really focusing on doll beds a lot more

699
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: than we are buck beans. So I will go in

700
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: and create in an area like that about uh, they're

701
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: about fifteen doe bedding spots in that seven or acre

702
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: eight acre woods. It's about a twelve acre woods, but

703
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: about seven or eight acres of it is dedicated to

704
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: being about fifteen dopening spots in that and that is

705
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: being a house two or three or four doll families

706
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: and several bucks two or three or four bucks. And

707
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: so we're making the dough beds is the focus a

708
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: single doll bad. If we have fifteen doll beds, we're

709
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: gonna have three or four buck beds for each dough

710
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: bed and they're gonna be in every direction. They might

711
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: be down in heavier cover, they might be in this

712
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: direction of that direction. But um, the dope ads are

713
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: created by creating areas about fifteen to twenty yards across

714
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: were seven or eight or nine spots are created under

715
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: overhanging cover. So we're cutting these trees about forty five

716
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: ft off the ground. Uh, dough family areas must have

717
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: at least nine spots to lay down in seven and

718
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: nine spots and the family is gonna like then we're

719
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: gonna make individual spots uh anywhere from fifteen to sixty

720
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: or seventy yards away in every direction where a buck

721
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: could lay down alone. And we might um, you know,

722
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: we we don't worry about when we know the wind's

723
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: gonna blow from every direction in Michigan and blows from

724
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: the west most of the time. But Um, the buck

725
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: spots are individual spots. They have to be larger enough.

726
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: We rake out a spot, we pull down trees, and

727
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: we hinge cut trees over it and created a little

728
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: dome shape area has two or three escape routes, just

729
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: as the doll betting areas do. And we're setting up

730
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: a situation where we have bulk bucks and dolls betting

731
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: in that. That's a quality deer hunting situations. You have

732
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: a trophy deer hunting situation, you want to put your

733
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: bucks some distance away and and then UM hunt in

734
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: between the bucks and the dolls. But we're going to

735
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: quality hunting situation where we're hunting between the dolls and

736
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: the food and the box are going to come. I'm

737
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: sorry I talked more about deer movement than I did.

738
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: I mean, um, controlling the female part of the population

739
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: that I did hinge cutting. So if you want me

740
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: to go into more detail on that, I can know

741
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: that was good. I think that. I think you explained

742
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: everything I was looking for plus more so I love it. Um.

743
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: Now you talked a little bit earlier about the fact

744
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: that there's you know, three things that dear care about,

745
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: the betting, the feeding, and the procreating. We've talked a

746
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: lot about the betting, but when it comes to the

747
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: feeding part. You know, what are your main tools when

748
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: it comes to providing quality food on your properties. I

749
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: know you talked a little bit about providing providing woody

750
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: browse through your timber improvement, but do you do anything

751
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: with food plus or anything like that. Yeah, and food

752
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: pots are very important. Um, So what we're gonna do

753
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: is we're gonna hinge cut the betting area. You saw that.

754
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: Then we hinge cut a transition zone in between. So

755
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: we're gonna hunt just inside the woods. And then we

756
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: have this field next to the woods that was an

757
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: old field overgrown with brush and trees and that sort

758
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: of thing. And what we do is create little micro

759
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: food plots in there. And these food plots are about

760
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: point one five acres that's the largest, down to a

761
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: point point five acres or point zero five acres the

762
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: one an acre. And we want six or seven or

763
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: eight of those food plots adjacent to the transition area

764
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: that the dose are going to move into. And the

765
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: more of those little food plots you have the earlier

766
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: the movement of the dose out of the betting area

767
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: is going to be. So we have the hinde cut

768
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: betting area, we have uh less aggressively hinge cut transitionary,

769
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: and then we have these little feeding areas, and we

770
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: make sure those feeding areas are completely surrounded by cover,

771
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: so I call it two jumps to cover. The deer

772
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: will use it all earlier in the daytime if they

773
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: feel like they can just take a jump or two

774
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: and being heavy cover. If if we made one large

775
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: food plot that let's say was point five or one

776
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: acres in science, uh, they would not use it nearly

777
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: as early. And that's the mistake that a lot of

778
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: hunters make when they set up in an egg field

779
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: or they put a two acre food plot on their

780
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: property and they wonder why the deer aren't coming out

781
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: in daytime, and new is because those deer don't feel

782
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: secure in there. So we want these little teaving food plots.

783
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: And then because these those are highly competitive with each other,

784
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 1: they will use it earlier in the day. So let's

785
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: suppose instead of doing it this way, we had a

786
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: betting area and we had a single transition zone and

787
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: then a larger food plot. Uh, And we hunted that

788
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: single transition zone that people usually caught a funnel. Well,

789
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: that's a funnel that deer traffic is going to come

790
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: down to. Now, I have three or four gold families

791
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: in my woods, and they're all going to use that funnel.

792
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: We'll guess what. They don't all use it at once.

793
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: They're highly competitive with each other, so the first most

794
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: dominant doll family might use it first and the other

795
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: goals are going to hang back because they don't want

796
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: to get the slap crap slapped out of them, which

797
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: she's gonna do if they come too close to her territory.

798
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: So when you have a funnel situation, you can watch that,

799
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: and hunters really like that because they go, oh, well,

800
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: all the deer are gonna come through here, so I'm

801
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: gonna see them all. Well, maybe you will, and maybe

802
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: you won't. Um, maybe they won't even make it out

803
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: of there until after dark because they have to come

804
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: out single file, and the bucks are going to be

805
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: the last ones to follow them out. And when you

806
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: have a funnel situation like that, a buck can stand

807
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: in one spot and check out every single doll family.

808
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: So we don't do that. What we have is these

809
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: several little food plots strung out, and then we have

810
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: a trail from the betting area for each one of

811
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: those food plots, and each one of those trails goes

812
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: by a potential stand site. Now we're getting the goals.

813
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: They're no longer competing with each other. They don't have

814
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: their own route to take to their own food plots

815
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: from the betting area. And it forces buck movement because

816
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,479
Speaker 1: the box cannot stand in one spot and check out

817
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: all the dough. They have to move, and they move

818
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: perpendicular to the dolls. But we set up buck trails

819
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: in the transition zone that have licking branches all along

820
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 1: them and scrapes all along them, and those bots are

821
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: gonna continue to move back and forth perpendiculre to the

822
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: movement of the dolls. That's a quality dare any situation.

823
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: So these these what I call transitional food plots, I

824
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: want to have a variety of food in them. I

825
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: will have perennials like a mixture of let's say, how

826
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: falfa clover and UM chickory. The next food plot might

827
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: might have UM Austrian winter peas and ryan. The next

828
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: food plot might have a mix of winter greens like

829
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: braskas and kales, and and maybe some winter week the

830
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: next food plot might have some crimson clover in it.

831
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: And we're creating this variety of locations, variety of food,

832
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: variety of trails to force the bucks to move to

833
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: check out the dolls. Uh the most um uh uh.

834
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: The best way that pattern deer or the um when

835
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: the time when you observe, observe the most predictable patterning

836
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: of gear is in this evening gear movement. So that's

837
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 1: what I talk a lot about when I'm talking about transmissing,

838
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: transitioning from food to cover his evening movement. And the

839
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: thing about evening movement that I think most hunters don't

840
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: understand is evening movement is controlled by bonds. Bonds are

841
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: sitting in that betting area. They're hungry, especially the buck

842
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: fawn and their auntsie, and they get up and they move,

843
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: and they forced the mom to eventually stand up and move,

844
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: even though she may not feel comfortable doing so. So

845
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: those um, you see these the whole families coming out

846
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: of this area. The buck fond pulls them out. Eventually

847
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: the mom follows and the other part the rest of

848
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: the family group, and then the box are left back

849
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: and they're in the woods. Nothing smells good back, so

850
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 1: they move out there and they start that perpendicular movement.

851
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: That's what we're trying to set up. So we want

852
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: quality food. And then if you go, uh, you know,

853
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: you go into these transitional food plucks. Now they're I

854
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: have available for them a one to two acre food

855
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: plot that they're going to move out into as dark approaches.

856
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: And uh so you want the betting, the transition zone,

857
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: transitional food moving out into a more shared destination plot.

858
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: And that destination plot is more central on the firm

859
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: and it's shared by other betting areas, so those deer

860
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: will all meet up in the center of the farm.

861
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: And unlike a lot of deer management people, I do

862
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: not want the deer moving from this. I don't want

863
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: a central sanctuary in most cases and the deer moving

864
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: out and getting more diffuse. I want the deer to

865
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: move be moving in in the evening and becoming more

866
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: concentrated on my property. So so we've got a pretty

867
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: good blueprint here for how to create some salid betting areas.

868
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: And I feel like you've got a good understanding of

869
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: how are utilizing food now with the transitionary food moving

870
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: onto the larger central food sources, and how you like

871
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: to space those out so you can force that buck movement. Um.

872
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: But I think the final piece of the equation then

873
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: for me, if I'm trying to understand your philosophy here

874
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: is then how do I hunt this property the best

875
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: way possibly? And if I'm if I'm hunting in a

876
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: high pressure hunting or a high hunting pressure situation a

877
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: small property, what do you think is the most important

878
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: thing for hunter to think about? Or maybe what are

879
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: some of the biggest mistakes that the average hunter is

880
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: making in that kind of situation. The number one mistake

881
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: I always made and the average hunter makes is uh

882
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: not paying attention to set control. And that's the number

883
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: one thing. So, UM, if you have a forty acre property,

884
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: I can almost guarantee you that if you walk back

885
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: to the back of that property into areas that um

886
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: where there's betting and transition zones and funnels and that

887
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: sort of thing, You're gonna shut down your chances to

888
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: the seeing on the tour box uh indefinitely. Uh. And

889
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna greatly curtailed the number of deer that you're

890
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: going to see indefinitely. I have an observation cult from

891
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: my barn. I have an absolutely superb deer habitat behind

892
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: my house at just a third team acre. Uh well,

893
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: it really it's eight acres a deer habitat, and I

894
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: observe how those dear behaves as they come into the

895
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: transitional food plots from my barn window. I have lats

896
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: of videos on my YouTube, like um that I called

897
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: the Behind Behind the Barn series where I watched these

898
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: deer in September and October. And I can tell you

899
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: that I can walk back there in my full set

900
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: control and I'm not gonna the next night that they

901
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 1: will be doing the same thing they were the night before.

902
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: If I walk through those food plots without any set control,

903
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 1: I will shut down that food plot for daylight use

904
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: for several days afterwards, guarantee. So can you describe your

905
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: scent control or regimen? Then? Well, um, you know, it's

906
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: the biggest chapter in my book, even though the book

907
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: was supposed to be about, um, you know, using a

908
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: chainsaw to shape your deer property. The most important chapter

909
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: in the book is the control, and I go to

910
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: great extremes in se control. Uh and UM it starts

911
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: out with UM. Just it's really important attention to details,

912
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: understanding that your boots have to be absolutely pristine, because UM,

913
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 1: that's when you're going to get busted. The most most

914
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: deer hunters never see themselves get busted by a deer.

915
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: When I I used to sell set control products and

916
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: I talked to thousands of hunters at shows, and I

917
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: asked them about step bust, and they always talk about

918
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: deer stopping their feet and blowing and running. That is

919
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: a rare set bust, and if it happens to you,

920
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: you probably have pretty bad set control. The way you're

921
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: getting busted nine times on a ten is from two

922
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: to three hundred yards away and there's no blowing and

923
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: there's no stopping. But deer just picked you up and

924
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: decided not to come in your direction. That's how it happened.

925
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: And the other way it happened is you have your

926
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: trail into your stand. They picked that trail up. They

927
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: react very badly to such things in areas where they

928
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: don't expect to see human footprints, and they will just

929
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: alter their pattern. The baby they don't shut down. They

930
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: don't become nocturnal. In most cases, they're just going to

931
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: move in such a way that you can't see them

932
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: anymore from that location that they know. You're using so

933
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: extreme control of our boots. And we do that. The

934
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: boots live better and sixty days a year and have

935
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: been that ben is filled with activated carbon powder, which

936
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: is the most powerful way that I know of to

937
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: control sent Every time I go hunting, I spray my boots.

938
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: I laugh at these hunters I see on TV that

939
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: there's two or three little sprintses of their clothes with

940
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: the best phrase, it's ridiculous. They're not doing anything except

941
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:02,479
Speaker 1: selling fest spray. I spray. I hose my boots down

942
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: with set spraytty prays hurt each boot until they're soaking

943
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: wet all over except on the inside, of course. And

944
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: then I put them in a bin and I put

945
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: a couple of table spoons evactivated carbon powder in there,

946
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: and I shake it up, and I now have a

947
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: thin film of the most powerful set control agent in

948
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: the world and my boots and my boots never get

949
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: busted by deer. I watched deer walk across my trail

950
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,959
Speaker 1: all the time, the does, especially more mature does, will

951
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: notice that there has been ground disturbance there, but they

952
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: will not um pick up human set whereas if you

953
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: just walk in without any set control into a region

954
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: that you are not used to spelling humans, they will

955
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: react for several days to add and they'll avoid that

956
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: location work around it. So the boots are critically important clothing. Um, Ever,

957
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: any bit of clothing that touches my body is re washed.

958
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: That I have my own washer and dryer dedicated just

959
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: to deer hunting. And by the way, that the guys

960
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: that buy these eight nine hundred dollar boats, you'd be

961
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: a lot better off with a two pound boat and

962
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: a washing machine that doesn't have your wife's um that

963
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: senate detergi incentate, I have them. Um. I have gone

964
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: for six months using a washing machine changing over from

965
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: scented uncented detergents, and I can I could still smell

966
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: the scented detergent sent it after six months of hundreds

967
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 1: of washes. You just can't. In a strontloading washers like mine,

968
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: you just can't get rid of that older You have

969
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: to tear the whole machine apart. So having a dedicated

970
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: washer and dryer really important and there are a lot

971
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: of ways you can do that. I bought mine for

972
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: less than five hundred dollars from the series Dented Store.

973
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: I have a room in my barron that it's in

974
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: that's heated. But you can also you can put it

975
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 1: in your garage like my friend Tony if dous rolling

976
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: out Hawka hos to us and do all your wash.

977
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: There's lots of ways to accomplish that, but using the

978
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: family washer is a great way to shut down dear

979
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 1: activity around your stand. Um. Then the use of activated

980
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: carbon and zeo light powder, which is a volcanic powder that,

981
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: like activated carbon, is very powerful taking up sins. We

982
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: use that and our clothing on our skin growing area

983
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: gets the zeolite powder, armpits an extreme shower. Um. I

984
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: do all this stuff. Marketing people would say why would

985
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: I want to go through all that? And I say

986
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: to people, what if I could guarantee you it takes

987
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: me about an extra forty five minutes to an hour

988
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: to get ready over what it used to without set

989
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: control in the morning or in the evening, So what

990
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: if I could guarantee you that you're hunting for the

991
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: season would be five to ten times better, you would

992
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: see more mature gear. You would see five to ten

993
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: times more, dear, No matter what your situation is, if

994
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: you only see one deer a day, you might see

995
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: by a deer a day. If you see twenty deer

996
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: a day, you might see them. What what if I

997
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: could guarantee you that? Would you come to my house

998
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: to do forty five minutes of work? If I could

999
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: guarantee you five times better? Honey? And the answer always

1000
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: is yeah, if it well, why aren't you willing to

1001
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: do that to get ready for your own hunts? Because

1002
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 1: that's what will happen. And it isn't that on any

1003
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: given the hunts you're gonna walk un in the woods

1004
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: and see five times as many deers the loss of

1005
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: deer signings, And this is just classic for our state

1006
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: like Michigan, and I went to it for decades of doing,

1007
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, hunting. Rather stupidly, I would say that, um,

1008
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: you're shutting down the deer in day one. You'll see

1009
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 1: a number of deer day too. Its slow down. Day three,

1010
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: you're not seeing anything more. Day before you're sitting in

1011
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: the coffee shop with your buddies. Thing the DNA are

1012
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: is killing too many those or the deer of all

1013
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: gune nocturnal You've caused all that, The hunter causes all that.

1014
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: When I talk about five at ten times better, I'm

1015
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: talking about whatever hunting you had on November, you're still

1016
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: gonna have on November if you do the extreme sack control,

1017
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: because the deer are not going to be aware that

1018
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: you're hunting up. There are other things that go into

1019
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: this mark, like band approach and all that sort of time,

1020
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: but the set control is is the main thing that

1021
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: is going to make the difference. So that I I

1022
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 1: keep very careful records of how many bucks those bonds,

1023
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. I see per hours, and I see twice

1024
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: as many bucks per hour in December as I do

1025
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: in October every year year and in year out. And

1026
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: that's mainly because my set control and so half the

1027
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: boxes have been killed off. But I'm seeing twice as many.

1028
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: What's causing that My neighbors are using poor SAT control,

1029
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: and the deer are dumping into areas where they don't

1030
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: feel that they're being hunted or they don't feel there's

1031
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: a human presence. So this just makes an absolute world

1032
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: of difference. It isn't a small difference. It's a huge

1033
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 1: difference once you decide that you're gonna start doing it. Yeah, well,

1034
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: I uh, I certainly can't argue with that at all.

1035
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: That makes, like you said, a monumental difference. When you

1036
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: start taking se control into account and really take it seriously,

1037
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna make it's gonna make all the difference in

1038
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: the world. So, Jim, we are coming up here on time, UM,

1039
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: and you've you've shared really a a tremendous amount of knowledge.

1040
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: You're almost overwhelming so much stuff that I know that

1041
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm personally gonna have to go back and look at

1042
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: your book to to kind of recant some of these

1043
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: things in my own mind. But for others out there

1044
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: who want to learn more about these different philosophies that

1045
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: you've talked about in your different strategies, where can they

1046
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: go to learn more or to buy your book? Yeah?

1047
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: The bucket being about at my website www dot Extreme

1048
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: Deer habitat dot com. You can also to reach it

1049
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: at www dot int dot com. It's easier to remember. Uh.

1050
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: And then there is a how by the book UM

1051
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: tab that you can hit and uh it is for

1052
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: the book. It is an electronic book. A lot of

1053
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: people don't care for electronic books. But I will probably

1054
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: never do the print version of this book because by

1055
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: making an electronic book, I have over four dred and

1056
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: eighty color illustrations in it. I had forty eight videos

1057
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: that you can click on. So if I'm showing a

1058
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: chainsaw technique and you don't quite get a click on

1059
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: the video and you can instantly watch the video. So

1060
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do this as a real

1061
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: multi media experience. Uh. And um, I hope that those

1062
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: of your listeners that have never done any book, well,

1063
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: yes you have. You've done a pdf. Uh, everybody's looked

1064
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: at PDF documents. That's all this is. It's a clickable

1065
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: PDF document you downloaded on your computer and uh, then

1066
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: you can click on the links and and uh. It's

1067
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: just a lot of people have talk to me about

1068
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: being afraid to eat books before. But it's a great experience. Yeah,

1069
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: I can definitely test to that. I I've personally had

1070
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: a lot of experience with them, and once you get

1071
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: getting figured out and get them on your device, they

1072
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: are awesome to work with. So yeah, and it's it's

1073
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, you know, I think ten years from

1074
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: now there will be no such thing as print books

1075
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: for how to stuff like my My book is showing

1076
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: you how to do things, and for that you need

1077
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: the illustrations, you need the videos and all that sort

1078
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: of things. The direction the world textbooks is going on

1079
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I agree. Well, I will make sure

1080
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: to include links to your website in the book on

1081
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: our show notes page. So for everyone listening, if you

1082
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: go to wired hunt dot com slash episode fifty three,

1083
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: you'll also be able to get those links that you

1084
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: can click on straight to jim site. So, Jim, thank

1085
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. This has been incredible.

1086
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for your interest, Mark and look forward to

1087
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: talking to you in the future. Sounds great, Have a

1088
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: great night. I'll see you at a q d M

1089
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: a national con nicely. Looking forward to Jim okay Man.

1090
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: All right, that is going to be it for us

1091
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,439
Speaker 1: today on the show. So before we close things out, though,

1092
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: a big thank you to the companies that are keeping

1093
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: the Wired Hunt podcast alive. If you enjoy the show,

1094
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: please support these companies as we wouldn't be here if

1095
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: they didn't help us out, so big thank you too.

1096
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 1: Sick of Gear Trophy Ridge, Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunt,

1097
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: Terra Maps, Ozonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White

1098
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: Tail Institute of North America. And of course, thank you

1099
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: for spending the last hour with us. I appreciate it

1100
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast.

1101
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: So until next time, have a great rest of your week,

1102
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: get outside and stay wired to hunt.