Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's been almost thirty five years since the Beastie
Speaker 1: Boys released the all time classic Licensed to Ill, and
Speaker 1: while some of the record's lyrics and antics sound is
Speaker 1: dated as the Porky's Movies, the album is still exceptional
Speaker 1: for Beastie Boys fans. Licensed to Ill is a glimpse
Speaker 1: into the lives of mca ad Rock, Mike d and
Speaker 1: their first djane producer, Rick Rubin. Their debut album as
Speaker 1: a pastiche of inside jokes in musical inspiration pulled from
Speaker 1: the classic rock and hip hop records they listened to
Speaker 1: and Rick's college dorm room. Rick recently connected with Mike
Speaker 1: d ad Rock and Spike Jones, who directed the New
Speaker 1: Beasties documentary, with Spike playing moderator. They teleport back to
Speaker 1: the early eighties and talk about their lives leading up
Speaker 1: to the release of License to Ill. It's all here,
Speaker 1: the inspiration him brass Monkey, Rick's infamous bubble Machine, and
Speaker 1: why DJ Double R bailed on the Beastie's first big
Speaker 1: break opening up from Madonna on her Like a Virgin
Speaker 1: tour in nineteen eighty five. This is broken record liner
Speaker 1: notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond, It's been
Speaker 1: about twenty years since Rick and Adam Horvitz have talked,
Speaker 1: and like most Zoom calls, their reunion gets off to
Speaker 1: a glitchy start. Mike d kicks things off. Oh who's Adam? Hi,
Speaker 1: what's up, sir? Rick? You look different. It's good to
Speaker 1: see you. You look the same. Yeah, No, that's a lot.
Speaker 1: That is an abomination. Mike, you look great. Don't start, Adam,
Speaker 1: don't start. Don't start. Rick. First of all, very nice
Speaker 1: to see. It's been a long long time. The last
Speaker 1: time I can remember a speaking was at one of
Speaker 1: the Tibetan freedom shows. You have a good memory. Then
Speaker 1: I don't remember that, and that had to be. But
Speaker 1: I mean, just time wise, putting a time stamp on
Speaker 1: it that was at least twenty years ago. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's surreal and it makes no sense. I mean, from
Speaker 1: my perspective, it makes no sense. I'll say, I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it worked out that we've not
Speaker 1: hung out in that amount of time. I'm just I've
Speaker 1: been so busy, you know. I can remember there was
Speaker 1: a little window of time that we started spending a
Speaker 1: little bit of time together in Los Angeles right when
Speaker 1: you came to Los Angeles after I was already there,
Speaker 1: and I can remember we had lunch at Hugos. God, damn,
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything. Oh yeah, I'm back in the
Speaker 1: Hugo's days. Michael, tryan to talk pasta ala mama, Yo, Michael,
Speaker 1: tryan to talk right now. We hung out a handful
Speaker 1: of times, and I remember seeing you and I think
Speaker 1: something something happened that. I don't know what happened at
Speaker 1: the party for the Blood Sugar Sex Magic album at
Speaker 1: them it was that album, That's what happened. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I got daggers today coming with all cylinders. You guys,
Speaker 1: we can see, we can see, we can see. Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm in I'm in a mood today, dude. I think
Speaker 1: Adam for your along with your daggers, I think you
Speaker 1: need like you need a bank of sound effects, like
Speaker 1: you know, doub siren. No, no, no, I'm just in
Speaker 1: a mood. Let's get all the dagger out. Let's let's
Speaker 1: do let's what's what's the show? Rick? What happens on
Speaker 1: your show? What's what is it? I wouldn't call it
Speaker 1: a show, It's a It's usually a conversation. And I
Speaker 1: talked to different artists and they tell me stories about
Speaker 1: what they do. It's not unlike what happens in a
Speaker 1: recording session before the music gets made. That's typically what
Speaker 1: it's like. Just kind of and and especially if it's
Speaker 1: someone that I don't know learning who they are. Can
Speaker 1: I start with a question, which I know is but
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, so I want to ask it. Do
Speaker 1: you find that you more often find out things that
Speaker 1: you don't know about people that you do know when
Speaker 1: they're doing your show, Or do you find stuff about
Speaker 1: somebody you do know that's doing your show more in
Speaker 1: an unexpected way than somebody who you don't know at
Speaker 1: all who's doing your show where you have no background.
Speaker 1: In both cases, I learned a tremendous amount about the
Speaker 1: people I'm talking to. It's maybe more unusual with people
Speaker 1: that I know, because I get to talk about things
Speaker 1: that we don't normally talk about, Like I was thinking
Speaker 1: about even from the time that we knew each other
Speaker 1: back in the day, stuff we never talked about, Like
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you guys about high school, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know what your experience at high school. I
Speaker 1: was just curious, Like, Wow, I was around. It was
Speaker 1: about the time you guys were just either just ending
Speaker 1: high school or just recently ending high school, and like,
Speaker 1: what was that like? We talked about that. Well, it's
Speaker 1: funny to think, actually, as you say that, because we
Speaker 1: spent so much time in your dorm room, I've never
Speaker 1: once pictured you in a class. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I never even thought that you actually like attended class. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't attend many, right well and angels. Conversely,
Speaker 1: when we were in your dorm room, Rick, it's because
Speaker 1: we were not going to school, right, So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's a good point. We never ever talked about
Speaker 1: we I never ever asked you about NYU ever. We
Speaker 1: just for our perspective, we just thought, well, this is cool,
Speaker 1: Like this guy lives in a dorm, he's going to college,
Speaker 1: and we're in high school. Yeah, so this like this
Speaker 1: is cool. Like you were like we thought you were
Speaker 1: going to be the cool like you turned you know,
Speaker 1: you were like the cool exclightly older guy. And then
Speaker 1: and then also mistakenly, I think we thought, wow, we're
Speaker 1: going to be hanging out in this dorm, which just
Speaker 1: means we're gonna beat like tons of girls and this
Speaker 1: is gonna be great, and we never talked to anybody.
Speaker 1: It was not but it was not like that. I
Speaker 1: mean for you to Mike Adam, what was your what
Speaker 1: was your school experience like on sixty third Street? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: I was. I went. I was supposed to go to
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Tech because I wanted to go to Stuyvesant, but
Speaker 1: I didn't get in, and so I went to Brooklyn Tech.
Speaker 1: And that was just too weird. That's a whole other story,
Speaker 1: but tell it, tell that story. What was weird about it? No, Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: Like I wanted to go to Stuyvesant because my best
Speaker 1: friend Arthur went there, and and I didn't get in.
Speaker 1: So I went to the other school you could go to.
Speaker 1: It was a technical school in Brooklyn, and it was
Speaker 1: massive and they had like metal detectors to get in
Speaker 1: and it was this huge technical school, and I, like
Speaker 1: I quickly realized after like the third day, like this
Speaker 1: is not for me. I don't know what the it's fright.
Speaker 1: It was just so overwhelming. Looking back, I wish I
Speaker 1: would have actually stayed and learned something technical actually could
Speaker 1: have helped me. But um so I just stopped going
Speaker 1: to school for a while, and then my dad got
Speaker 1: me into the school McBurney that it was a private
Speaker 1: school uptown, and I was there for a couple of
Speaker 1: years and then I stopped going, probably right around the
Speaker 1: time I met you. And not that the two things,
Speaker 1: not that two things are related. I'm just saying, what
Speaker 1: was the experience like of the school, Like what were
Speaker 1: the kids like the experience going to school? Because I
Speaker 1: was also I got into graffiti because we were into
Speaker 1: graffiti and so like that was the fun part about
Speaker 1: getting to school. It is just like being on the
Speaker 1: train and watching this, you know, just seeing who was
Speaker 1: on there and all that stuff in the school. The
Speaker 1: first school was just overwhelming. It was I can't even describe.
Speaker 1: It was just huge with thousands of kids. It was
Speaker 1: just a massive school. And then McBurney was like a
Speaker 1: preppy school. It was like a I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just seemed felt really out of place there. I felt
Speaker 1: kind of dirty, like my clothes are dirty. Well can
Speaker 1: you tell tell us the story, Adam, Why you never
Speaker 1: returned to McBurney. Oh? Yeah, So they had the school
Speaker 1: play was going to be Oliver, and so I did.
Speaker 1: They had auditions and I and I sang for the
Speaker 1: audition consider yourself at home, And I'd never really sang
Speaker 1: out loud before, and I was so bad that I
Speaker 1: just left the school that never went back. Incredible, But
Speaker 1: I will say I think you'd be a good artful
Speaker 1: artful dodger, artful dodgery. Yeah, good even now then now
Speaker 1: in between, I know, but it was singing. I can't sing,
Speaker 1: as you know, I can't sing, but I can, but
Speaker 1: it's just bad. Yeah, yeah, it's not. You're you know
Speaker 1: you're not rapping fourte, I get it. Adam. Did you
Speaker 1: get into graffiti before before hip hop music or were
Speaker 1: they simultaneous later later hip hop later? No, rap music first? Definitely?
Speaker 1: Oh okay, And do you remember what were the record
Speaker 1: stories that you guys hung out in? Did you guys
Speaker 1: hang on record stores? All? I knew you hung out
Speaker 1: at rat Cage, But was that like the first record
Speaker 1: store where you would like spend time, like the rat
Speaker 1: Cage you were at, like that that was the first
Speaker 1: record store where I, like, I felt comfortable talking to
Speaker 1: the person behind the counter. I would go to Bleaker
Speaker 1: Bob's all the time, like get like get off the
Speaker 1: train coming home from school and I go to Bleaker
Speaker 1: Bob's and I'd be terrified because Bob was always there.
Speaker 1: He yell at you know, yell at you, yell at me,
Speaker 1: and he had that huge Doberman pincher. She was scary
Speaker 1: and yeah, and they were always mean to me. Do
Speaker 1: you mean to everybody? You would always say random, weird
Speaker 1: jewish stuff. To me. I was just like a little kid.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to find out about what cool, what
Speaker 1: was new, what was cool? And I didn't know and
Speaker 1: they were so mean. But then then at school, I
Speaker 1: do remember going to nine nine Records. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: where I hung out. I loved I loved ninety nine.
Speaker 1: My memory of the of those days were that the
Speaker 1: whole schedule of the day was based around going to
Speaker 1: the club. Did you guys feel that way as well?
Speaker 1: Or no? Oh? Yeah, like that was the that was
Speaker 1: really the primary thing every day was what club was
Speaker 1: going to be that night, if there was going to
Speaker 1: be a band if not, what DJ's to go to
Speaker 1: see and where to hang out. Well that's why the
Speaker 1: Rackage record store was was great because it was the
Speaker 1: first record store that kids hung out at for me,
Speaker 1: at least, you know what I mean. The other record
Speaker 1: stores that I used to go to, you know, kids
Speaker 1: wouldn't really hang out and Bleaker Bob's maybe, but that
Speaker 1: I didn't like it there, and so Rackage was like
Speaker 1: a meeting place, like a hangout place. And later your
Speaker 1: dorm room was going moving the needle forward a little
Speaker 1: like when we would hang out with you, when we
Speaker 1: go to your dorm room. I remember like every day
Speaker 1: like it was just kind of like go to your
Speaker 1: dorm room and then figure out what we were doing
Speaker 1: that night, and what we were doing that night always
Speaker 1: revolved around what club we were going to. I remember
Speaker 1: it always being around music. Even during the day. We
Speaker 1: would make mixtapes and sometimes sit out on the front
Speaker 1: the front of the dorm with boom Bach and listen
Speaker 1: to music, and it seemed like that's all that it was.
Speaker 1: That's all it was going on. All that seemed important
Speaker 1: was music and what we were going to eat and
Speaker 1: what we were going to listen to. And Mike was
Speaker 1: clearly focused on hooking up. Literally, we know I was interested.
Speaker 1: I wasn't very good in that arena, yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was interested. Where did the original Volkswagen emblem
Speaker 1: come from? That was from my friend Laura Shilson it
Speaker 1: was on her wall. So wait, wait, I don't understand.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't on her wall on that chain, I
Speaker 1: don't remember. I think she just had it on the wall.
Speaker 1: She took it off a car, and for some reason
Speaker 1: I had it and then put it on a string,
Speaker 1: and then you took it. That's what I love about
Speaker 1: being a teenager, how much stuff just sort of goes
Speaker 1: from one kid to the next to the next. So
Speaker 1: I just I remember. I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: you and Yell came over and it was like you
Speaker 1: gave it to me in a glorious presentation. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like in my revisionist history. I feel like like some
Speaker 1: like it's almost like I feel like I was knighted,
Speaker 1: like you guys gave me bestowed. It was bestowed upon you.
Speaker 1: It was bestowed upon me, and then I could become
Speaker 1: Mike d I'm gonna dispute that, because think about it,
Speaker 1: what have I ever given you? I feel like I remember.
Speaker 1: I feel like I remember this happening though I feel
Speaker 1: like I was there for that yes to bestowing. But
Speaker 1: I do feel like and I don't know how it
Speaker 1: ended up being on the chain. I don't because I
Speaker 1: don't think it was on that chain somehow, like that
Speaker 1: chain was like sitting around and I don't remember that exactly,
Speaker 1: but I remember them. Once I started wearing that, it
Speaker 1: was kind of like then it was like I felt
Speaker 1: like everybody felt like, all right, I could I could
Speaker 1: beat Mike Tea. Now that was your Superman came. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was wow, Rick, When you first met these guys,
Speaker 1: what was like? What are can you think of a
Speaker 1: time where there sometimes when you were like, oh, I
Speaker 1: get them, I understand who they are, Like I understand
Speaker 1: who Yoki is or who Adam is, or who Mike is, Like,
Speaker 1: what was your sense of that? Well? I remember meeting
Speaker 1: Adam first through Dave Skilkin, and I remember Dave Skilkin
Speaker 1: was sort of the in my mind, the glue, Like
Speaker 1: he was a kid who was just super friendly and outgoing,
Speaker 1: which I don't think any of any of us were.
Speaker 1: I thought we met you and I met because of
Speaker 1: Nick Cooper. Could be wrong. I remember Nick Cooper, but
Speaker 1: I didn't remember that's how we met. I do, Rick,
Speaker 1: remember I remember Nick Cooper telling us about you and
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, there's this You got to meet him
Speaker 1: because we'd put cooking us out when I really needed
Speaker 1: a DJ. It's like, you gotta meet him. He's into
Speaker 1: like the stuff that you guys are into, and he's
Speaker 1: a d K and he's got all the equipment at
Speaker 1: According to Nick, remember I asked her out. He's like,
Speaker 1: he's got a bubble machine. That was his big line.
Speaker 1: That's true. I'll see that it's true. Rick is confirming
Speaker 1: the bubble machine. Well, it's true that I had I
Speaker 1: know I had access to a bubble machine access. Yes,
Speaker 1: I never know. We were writing the book, you were like, Rick,
Speaker 1: didn't no, I said the bubble machine, and You're like,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And then you called Rick and
Speaker 1: Rick was like, yeah, I don't know about a bubble machine.
Speaker 1: I was like, you both are crazy because there was
Speaker 1: definitely a bubble There was a bubble machine. Why else
Speaker 1: would you want to meet someone exactly, Oh, they have
Speaker 1: a bubble machine. Okay, I'll go the funny. The funny
Speaker 1: thing is is that the bubble machine was something that
Speaker 1: just was at the dorm. It's like, uh, and when
Speaker 1: I heard that there was a bubble machine there, it's like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, we gotta have a party. We have a
Speaker 1: bubble machine now. So let's have a party, and that
Speaker 1: was where the Bubble Machine story began. Rick, I'm curious about,
Speaker 1: like just what your relationship with with each of the
Speaker 1: and was, like I can remember spending the most time
Speaker 1: with Adam, and it seemed like our friendship had mostly
Speaker 1: to do with music because that's what we just listened
Speaker 1: to music all the time, as I recall, and DJing
Speaker 1: in music, and then I think I met the other
Speaker 1: guys through the story of Cookie Puss after Cookie Puss
Speaker 1: was already out and then wanting a DJ, and then
Speaker 1: I came to a couple of shows in DJ the
Speaker 1: after the live set, as I recall, hard to remember
Speaker 1: first impressions. I remember seeing Mike before I met Mike
Speaker 1: at Nagrill one night, and I remember someone saying, oh,
Speaker 1: that that's one of the guys in the Beastie Boys,
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking it was just like it was
Speaker 1: just a weird I had a weird impression, not good
Speaker 1: or bad, just like he's a kid, feels like maybe
Speaker 1: my age, maybe a little younger, and he's in a band,
Speaker 1: and I remember he was I think, I think you
Speaker 1: may have been pretty inebriated that night, Mike, and I
Speaker 1: just remember thinking, Wow, this guy seems like a little
Speaker 1: like uh, seems like revd Up, you know, like revd Up,
Speaker 1: like tough, tough guy, Mike. You mean like he's just
Speaker 1: like bad boy. No, no, no, just like like enjoying himself.
Speaker 1: Like he was hitting it hard. Yeah, he goes hard
Speaker 1: in the paint. He went hard in the pain. He
Speaker 1: was going hard in the paint and it was impressive.
Speaker 1: Come on. I don't remember being inebriated that night, which
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I wasn't. But what I do. What
Speaker 1: I do I do remember is two things. One is
Speaker 1: that was a really really important night for like us,
Speaker 1: for you, Rick is like a part of us, like
Speaker 1: because that was like where we really saw like hip
Speaker 1: hop came, like I talked about it in the book,
Speaker 1: where hip hop came downtown and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: there's a treacherous three and then I think it was
Speaker 1: like next week was Afriga Bembada and Chazy Jay if
Speaker 1: it wasn't that night whatever, and it was like this,
Speaker 1: it was the most anything. But so my thing in
Speaker 1: terms of compensating, I think there's like, of course I
Speaker 1: was completely It's funny because I look I think about
Speaker 1: I think back on those NC Grill nights, and I think, wow,
Speaker 1: I was like so intimidated. I was so scared to
Speaker 1: be there, but I was loving every second of it.
Speaker 1: I was. There was no like club night. Maybe that
Speaker 1: was more influential or exciting to me, but but I
Speaker 1: was compensating from being intimidated. Probably but like because I
Speaker 1: was with like my group of like friends, I was
Speaker 1: probably acting like, oh yeah, I got this, but I
Speaker 1: definitely didn't have it at all. We'll be right back
Speaker 1: with the Beastie Boys and Spike Jones. After a quick break,
Speaker 1: we're back with more from the Beasties and Spike Jones. Rick, Well,
Speaker 1: what did you know about about the Beastie Boys at
Speaker 1: that point or what did you what was your impression
Speaker 1: to him? Had you ever heard of him? I don't
Speaker 1: think I knew anything. I think the first thing that
Speaker 1: I heard of the Beastie Boys was Cookie Posts, which
Speaker 1: I loved, and Imber. I was in San Francisco and
Speaker 1: I heard it at a she was a writer and A. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it might have been in Powers and I
Speaker 1: think I was stay staying at her like lofty place,
Speaker 1: and I think I heard it there. I don't know
Speaker 1: if she played it, or if I heard it on
Speaker 1: the radio in San Francisco when I was there, but
Speaker 1: I remember the connection of being at her house and
Speaker 1: hearing it, and I thought, wow, that's really cool because
Speaker 1: I was really really into hip hop at the time
Speaker 1: and felt like it was the first punk rock expansion
Speaker 1: towards hip hop. That's what it felt like. It was
Speaker 1: as much a punk I would say it was as
Speaker 1: much a punk rock record as it was anything else.
Speaker 1: Compared to hip hop records, it was punk rock, but
Speaker 1: compared to other punk rock records, it was more hip hop.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, wow, it's really cool and it
Speaker 1: and it had a and I remember laughing at it
Speaker 1: and laughing at it with it, you know, like laughing
Speaker 1: with it, thinking this is really funny, it's really good.
Speaker 1: And I remember I remember I remember Yauk and his
Speaker 1: motorcycle jacket and his long raincoat, and at one point
Speaker 1: I felt like him and Nick Cooper kind of had
Speaker 1: a similar raincoat vibe, you know, that raincoat vibe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't remember how I met Nick Cooper, but I
Speaker 1: remember that to me, it felt like an anomaly. But
Speaker 1: in both cases, the raincoat vibe was not something you
Speaker 1: saw kids in New York wearing like it was it
Speaker 1: was a fashion statement to wear long, somewhat dressy raincoat. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the raincoat vibe played played strong. When I first met
Speaker 1: Yak at this Bad Rains show at Botany Talkhouse and
Speaker 1: he was the only other kid my agea was there.
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, this is the kids wearing like
Speaker 1: a trench coat and his combat boots and his like
Speaker 1: hair spike up, like this kid's really cool. Yuck. Actually
Speaker 1: kept that raincoat thing for that trench coat for a
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, that trench coat vibe work. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say. Also, remember Yeuk's obsession with the Bad Brains,
Speaker 1: like it felt like nothing else in the world existed
Speaker 1: other than the Bad Brains and kept that going for
Speaker 1: a long time too. Yeah. And I remember as a
Speaker 1: as a music fan seeing that sort of obsessive dedication
Speaker 1: and just thinking, wow, he's really again going hard, like
Speaker 1: he's going hard for this thing that he loves. Did
Speaker 1: you do you feel like you got the answers that
Speaker 1: you wanted? Yeah? Well, actually yeah, I'm always curious what
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're like eighteen, it's kind of hard, Like,
Speaker 1: how would you describe somebody you meet is kind of
Speaker 1: hard because it's more about like what common interests, like
Speaker 1: being having the same music interests. But did you have
Speaker 1: a sense during like just not knowing these guys then
Speaker 1: how you would describe each of them. I never really
Speaker 1: thought about it. I did feel likely felt that I
Speaker 1: felt like the place that I grew up in and
Speaker 1: the people I was around and where I grew up
Speaker 1: had a big impact on what I what I saw,
Speaker 1: what I knew, and I felt like their life experience
Speaker 1: was very different than mine, and it was just interesting.
Speaker 1: And in some ways, um, I thought it was a
Speaker 1: good thing, and in some ways I thought it was
Speaker 1: a bad thing from from my perspective. Yea, And what way?
Speaker 1: What way was it good? What way was it bad?
Speaker 1: You're talking about like a long n link kid versus
Speaker 1: a city kid kind of right, Yeah, I would say
Speaker 1: like they had better access than I had, because this
Speaker 1: is pre internet, Like now, everyone could find out anything
Speaker 1: they want about anything. Where I was, it was hard
Speaker 1: to find out anything about anything. I'd spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time in the library doing research, and even that
Speaker 1: research wasn't sort of cultural of the moment research. It
Speaker 1: was just what I could learn about things I was
Speaker 1: interested in and then spending a lot of time in
Speaker 1: record stores is my closest way of having any connection
Speaker 1: to culture, because where I lived there wasn't it didn't
Speaker 1: really exist. Although there was a club called there were
Speaker 1: a couple of nightclubs, and I did get to see
Speaker 1: like the Specials played in my hometown, which was remarkable.
Speaker 1: On the downside, I felt like maybe by living in
Speaker 1: the city, it might narrow the view of what was cool,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know what was cool coming from where
Speaker 1: I came from, and the beauty of that was I
Speaker 1: could see and hear everything. There was very little peer
Speaker 1: pressure about about that where I lived, whereas I could
Speaker 1: see if you were in the city, there was stuff
Speaker 1: that was cool to like and not cool to like,
Speaker 1: and that could have a limiting effect. I mean, I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard led Zeppelin playing from like other kids at school,
Speaker 1: but because and kind of like to your point, I
Speaker 1: had already like decided, like I was so set on
Speaker 1: making my identity about being into stuff that those kids
Speaker 1: weren't into, I couldn't hear led Zeppelin. But then when
Speaker 1: we were in your dorm room and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, you put on. When the levee breaks, We're like,
Speaker 1: what's this? It's like the best thing ever or like
Speaker 1: ac DC or you know, what do you tell me? Mike?
Speaker 1: First tell me your memories of the dorm room. First off,
Speaker 1: it's the first college dorm I'd ever have been in
Speaker 1: period because you're in high school. I remember like just
Speaker 1: being intimidated, like going up to the desk and I
Speaker 1: guess it must have been like maybe mister Rick Rick
Speaker 1: Midilla at the desk and like having to get the
Speaker 1: pass or whatever to go up in the elevation or
Speaker 1: being you get the visitor pass because we're visiting you,
Speaker 1: and then I and then I remember being kind of
Speaker 1: confused because you had a roommate. But then you I
Speaker 1: think you had a roommate, right, I actually need you
Speaker 1: to kind of like explain this to us, but I
Speaker 1: think you had a roommate when we first went there.
Speaker 1: But you had this huge pa in the in the
Speaker 1: dorm room with like to sir Win Vega. You know,
Speaker 1: there's like there's like the biggest PA I've ever seen,
Speaker 1: like like somebody that I knew have. And then with
Speaker 1: the turntables and like the drum machine and everything and
Speaker 1: so so we loved it and we're impressed. So you
Speaker 1: don't all this equipment. But I was very confused. I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, how does Rick just like we were
Speaker 1: listening to music really loud in your dorm room, which
Speaker 1: and I loved it, But how were you? How is
Speaker 1: this guy able to do this and like not get
Speaker 1: kicked out of the dorm room and where's this roommate? Like,
Speaker 1: I was just a lot of questions. Yeah, yes, all
Speaker 1: all of that. Adam, what were you? What were your
Speaker 1: memories of the dorm room? You know, first of all,
Speaker 1: I was looking for a place to be basically, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of in life and literally like not going to
Speaker 1: school and needing somewhere to be. But also being around
Speaker 1: you know, older kids is cool when you're younger, you know, intimidating,
Speaker 1: but you know kind of cool. You're like, oh, you
Speaker 1: kind of think that you're one of the you know,
Speaker 1: older kids now, And it was just it was just cool,
Speaker 1: you know, especially going to your dorm room. You had
Speaker 1: just the records, the stuff, like, you know, two turntables,
Speaker 1: a drum machine. I was like, I loved it. I
Speaker 1: didn't have you know, I didn't have that stuff. I
Speaker 1: didn't have all those records, so it was great. I
Speaker 1: loved it. I mean yeah, like Ricky talk about access,
Speaker 1: and yes we did. We did have like throw it
Speaker 1: up in New York City, like when we talked about
Speaker 1: it in the book and the show whatever. deVie was
Speaker 1: a huge thing to us that we would just hear
Speaker 1: music all around us, or that we go to rack
Speaker 1: cage because we didn't want to find out what's happening
Speaker 1: that night and somebody say, oh, this thing's happening, and
Speaker 1: we would just go there because we had this access
Speaker 1: as teenagers. But but in your dorm room, it was
Speaker 1: just really exciting because they go. Adam said, we would,
Speaker 1: I remember, like I was my I was again like
Speaker 1: kind of confused, but so impressed when you you would
Speaker 1: come you would I think I felt like you would
Speaker 1: come deaf they delivered it to you. Or if you'd
Speaker 1: come back every week with like a create record from
Speaker 1: the record pool, yeah, and you remember that and we'd
Speaker 1: all go we'd go through them and put like basically
Speaker 1: everyone on to see what was good, what we like,
Speaker 1: what we didn't like, whatever. We listened to every twelve
Speaker 1: inch from that week, and that was such like an
Speaker 1: exciting thing like I didn't. I didn't have the like
Speaker 1: I had the money to get a single, like a
Speaker 1: rap single every once in a while, but I certainly
Speaker 1: would never think and never had the money to buy
Speaker 1: two copies of the same record. That just seems nuts.
Speaker 1: And so to go to your place and you had
Speaker 1: two copies of all these singles I loved, and we
Speaker 1: had two turns. It was just amazing. You know, it
Speaker 1: was nice to see you too. Obviously I'm in should
Speaker 1: I feel used? I never did get that Bubba machine
Speaker 1: access right, But then also I think an Adam and
Speaker 1: I've talked about this, like there was it was interesting.
Speaker 1: We felt like we were trying to just think back
Speaker 1: at like you know, when we first like we met
Speaker 1: you then started working with you. It's like you had
Speaker 1: especially like once you started started when you started producing
Speaker 1: U with us and like producing our records, it was
Speaker 1: like you had this confidence Rick that was like you know,
Speaker 1: it's all like every either any of us were like, Rick,
Speaker 1: what what record have you done? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like and we're all whatever, We're all of it's seventeen
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. But it's like you had this confidence,
Speaker 1: like you knew how you wanted things to sound and
Speaker 1: looking back at it, like, I'm just so impressed honestly
Speaker 1: with that, Like, who it's got to be pretty rare.
Speaker 1: That's somebody like eighteen nineteen, twenty twenty one years old
Speaker 1: knows how they want, like what kind of what types
Speaker 1: of records they want to make? Yeah, it's it's weird.
Speaker 1: I I definitely knew. I had a clear vision of
Speaker 1: what I wanted to hear. Really as a fan, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was more, Um, I just loved it, and I
Speaker 1: knew how certain things made me feel, and I wanted
Speaker 1: more of the ones that made me feel good and
Speaker 1: less of the ones that didn't make me feel as good.
Speaker 1: And it was very pure. It was the same way,
Speaker 1: the same way that you connected to it. I just
Speaker 1: and I think maybe part of it might have been
Speaker 1: that I didn't have brothers or sisters. You guys both
Speaker 1: had siblings, and I think that changes it. It's like
Speaker 1: I spent most of my time until I started hanging
Speaker 1: out with you guys by myself, so it wasn't the
Speaker 1: only opinion that I was around was my own. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't have an old older brother playing me music.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have it all sort of had.
Speaker 1: I had to find it and see what resonated with me,
Speaker 1: And it had very little to do with the people
Speaker 1: around me, because like in my high school, nobody liked
Speaker 1: punk rock. I was the only person who like punk rock.
Speaker 1: So I had no sense of community at all. When
Speaker 1: I started listening to hip hop. At least there were
Speaker 1: a couple of kids in my high school who liked
Speaker 1: hip hop. Well, I'm going to change the subject for
Speaker 1: a sec because there is something that I wanted to
Speaker 1: know Rick. Yes, So, Spike, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know this, but so we got the gig to open
Speaker 1: for Madonna on tour and Rick was the BC Boys
Speaker 1: DJ DJ double R. And we played a couple of
Speaker 1: shows and then he was gone. And he said that
Speaker 1: his doctor said he had an inner ear situation that
Speaker 1: he couldn't fly. And so I felt that that answer
Speaker 1: couldn't fly. And so now I'm asking you, Rick, did
Speaker 1: you just not want to do it or did you
Speaker 1: really have an ear problem? One hundred percent true. Both
Speaker 1: answers are flying with me. No, no no, no, of course,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent true. I went to the clinic on
Speaker 1: fourteenth there was a ear Nose and Throat Clinic on fourteen.
Speaker 1: I had never been there before, and I went there
Speaker 1: and they said, you have a terrible infection in your ear.
Speaker 1: You got to take these drugs and you cannot fly.
Speaker 1: If you fly, you'll probably lose your hearing in that ear.
Speaker 1: So that was and and I it's funny because I
Speaker 1: don't remember us talking about it, But also maybe part
Speaker 1: of the reason we didn't talk about it was because
Speaker 1: it was the tour was already ongoing, wasn't it. It
Speaker 1: was like we were yeah. So I feel like we did, Like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't. You flew out, Like you started the tour
Speaker 1: with us in like Seattle and Portland or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then for some reason you would fly back to
Speaker 1: New York. But we were still on tour and you
Speaker 1: were you were supposed to meet us again, like in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles or something, and then instead of meeting us,
Speaker 1: you're like, you know, you had the ear infection. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now we're finding out was legit. But at the time
Speaker 1: we were like, ear infection, Well, I'll tell you everything.
Speaker 1: Feel free to ask me. Everything was always legit. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't I would have loved to I loved being
Speaker 1: in the band. I loved doing the shows. It was
Speaker 1: it was completely thrilling. I loved it. I feel in
Speaker 1: some ways it's like the universe has this incredible power
Speaker 1: to affect my ear and make me stay in one place.
Speaker 1: And then it led to me focusing all my attention
Speaker 1: into production instead of being in a band, which could
Speaker 1: have been Like it could have been, that could have happened,
Speaker 1: and it just sort of worked out the way Maybe
Speaker 1: it was supposed to. I don't know. It feels like
Speaker 1: in retrospect, looking back, I would have never made that choice.
Speaker 1: While I'll say I didn't like traveling, I loved the
Speaker 1: experience of playing in the band. It was super fun.
Speaker 1: I thought the shows were great, Like I can remember
Speaker 1: I can remember us playing at Radio City and just
Speaker 1: how much the audience didn't like it, and I just
Speaker 1: thought it was incredibly punk rock and fun. I can
Speaker 1: remember Madison Square Garden and thinking it was it was
Speaker 1: just like, we're playing at Madison Square Garden. Can you
Speaker 1: believe this? We didn't even really, we didn't have an
Speaker 1: album out. It was unbelievable, Right, What were the shows like? Rick?
Speaker 1: It was? It was funny because we got to do
Speaker 1: the crazy Beastie Boys show and lean into the craziness
Speaker 1: of of this sort of heel persona, the bad guy persona,
Speaker 1: and in front of an audience where it was completely inappropriate,
Speaker 1: which made it even funnier. It's like, it's it's like
Speaker 1: if you're if you're if you're doing a punk rock
Speaker 1: show in front of a punk rock audience, there's this
Speaker 1: camaraderie there, and if you're doing a punk rock show
Speaker 1: in front of people who are not feeling it, it
Speaker 1: really gets punk rock. It's like it gets it gets
Speaker 1: elevated to this other thing, not for anybody but us.
Speaker 1: I mean I found it thrilling. Um. I know the
Speaker 1: audience hated it, but that was sort of part of
Speaker 1: the fun of it why they even more than hated it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where it became thrilling to us.
Speaker 1: Was it like these twelve year old girls and maybe
Speaker 1: more importantly, their parents were genuinely horrified. They were they
Speaker 1: were repulsed. I mean, and I had to be right,
Speaker 1: I had to be there. We're a bunch of like
Speaker 1: little white kid is yelling at them on stage like
Speaker 1: you should be It's like, yeah, what is offensive? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And yeah, and for the record like Ricky, you know,
Speaker 1: you obviously had a big that was That was another
Speaker 1: thing like along with introducing us to to heavy metal
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin and Sabbath AC DC, you we also like
Speaker 1: the wrestling thing was never cool. That was uncool to us,
Speaker 1: right because we were these punk rock kids. It's still
Speaker 1: uncos uncol to everybody. But you were totally you wet
Speaker 1: like this like vocabulary in that world. And you immediately
Speaker 1: saw like this opportunity with the Madonna tour that like,
Speaker 1: oh no, it was like obvious to you, Like, no, guys,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, You're just gonna be It's just
Speaker 1: like wrestling, you know, you had So it's just pretty
Speaker 1: weird to think about. Most people don't think about, like
Speaker 1: if you have a band, it's going to open up
Speaker 1: for this somebody who was like a cultural icon who
Speaker 1: couldn't have been you couldn't have had a bigger pup
Speaker 1: on the planet at that moment, Madonna like the biggest
Speaker 1: star in the world. Most people just think like, how
Speaker 1: do you put a good show together? And you you
Speaker 1: saw it through this told the other lens it was like, no,
Speaker 1: it's obvious. It's like wrestling. Well, the other part of
Speaker 1: it was is no matter what we did, the audience
Speaker 1: was there to see Madonna and they weren't gonna like
Speaker 1: what we did regardless. So to really lean into that
Speaker 1: idea of well, where the we are the bad guys here?
Speaker 1: Where are the enemies? And to and to overcome that,
Speaker 1: to play it with all this bravado like you're here
Speaker 1: to see me and like it's just so ridiculous, so funny. Adam,
Speaker 1: do you remember the stuff you said? I remember you
Speaker 1: said some really come on you guys, most remember the best,
Speaker 1: the big the best and biggest line was I am
Speaker 1: the King of the Paramount, Like whatever theater we are at.
Speaker 1: That's how Adam would open up the show. I am
Speaker 1: the King. Um, you know Madison Square Garden. Do you, Adam,
Speaker 1: do you see the humor in this now? Really? Now?
Speaker 1: Of course I do. It's you're like you have this
Speaker 1: space like I didn't like it? No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we we also we also just did this shows a
Speaker 1: bunch of times in the movie and hope it's like
Speaker 1: it's fresh in here. Um, it was amazing, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a it's not a it's
Speaker 1: not a wild idea, but it's a it's a it
Speaker 1: is a great idea. You know, they're not gonna like us.
Speaker 1: They're certainly not gonna love us. They might possibly be
Speaker 1: like I didn't like that. But if we can guarantee
Speaker 1: that they remember us by saying I fucking hated that,
Speaker 1: and I will hate this and have this memory of
Speaker 1: hatred for a long long time, that's an interesting way
Speaker 1: to get your music through to somebody. Yeah, and it worked,
Speaker 1: It worked, and we but I remember the time like
Speaker 1: being convinced because it was like we look at it
Speaker 1: in this like feeboy way of like, yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: make a name for ourselves, and I did. We'll be
Speaker 1: back after a quick break. We're back with the rest
Speaker 1: of Rick's conversation with the Beastie Boys and Spike Johns. Hey, Rick,
Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to ask about just is a
Speaker 1: production on the first record we you know, we talked
Speaker 1: about it a little bit in the show, but obviously
Speaker 1: we have so much stuff, but that like, as as
Speaker 1: a fan, there's some bands that take a while to form,
Speaker 1: and then some bands that just come out fully formed,
Speaker 1: like in that record, and even just actually the way
Speaker 1: these guys described you with the confidence. It sounds like
Speaker 1: you kind of came out fully formed in some strange,
Speaker 1: you know, amazing way. What was like, What was the
Speaker 1: process of that first record. I can just remember that
Speaker 1: every time there was a good idea, we would make
Speaker 1: a new song. And I can remember the I remember
Speaker 1: two parts. I remember the lyric writing, which would be
Speaker 1: basically every night that we went out to the clubs.
Speaker 1: I remember trading lines only with the hope of making
Speaker 1: the other member laugh. Like I would always say stuff
Speaker 1: that I would think would try to make Adam laugh
Speaker 1: if we were hanging out, and if he laughed, I
Speaker 1: would write it down and just collecting lines, and we
Speaker 1: would both we would all do it back and forth
Speaker 1: and collect up these mountains of rhymes, not so much
Speaker 1: with a subject or a song in mine. Most of
Speaker 1: the time it was more just good lines. Then I
Speaker 1: can remember being in the studio, sometimes with Adam, sometimes myself,
Speaker 1: just making tracks because it's what I was always doing,
Speaker 1: and would just make tracks and just trying to make
Speaker 1: something interesting. And I don't think I could separate it
Speaker 1: in my head, but I knew the beats for LLL
Speaker 1: were different than the beats for the Beastie Boys, and
Speaker 1: the beats for the Best Boys were different than the
Speaker 1: beats for Run DMC, and it seemed clear to me,
Speaker 1: But I can't put a finger on what was different.
Speaker 1: But I knew as they were as we were making them,
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, this one, this one feels like lllbat
Speaker 1: and this one feels like this could be a really
Speaker 1: good Beast Boys record. Those like gated snare drums. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I can't say, I can't I can't put
Speaker 1: a finger on what it was. Do you remember sometimes
Speaker 1: making the record where it's like, oh, this is what
Speaker 1: like it sort of gave clarity to what the whole
Speaker 1: record is, like a decision, a beat, a lion. No.
Speaker 1: I remember I was in Electric Lady working on the
Speaker 1: Cults album Electric and I got a call from Mike
Speaker 1: and Mike said, Hey, how come our records not done yet?
Speaker 1: And do you remember this, Mike, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: This was amazing because I think this was like you
Speaker 1: guys were on tour. I assume I was. This must
Speaker 1: have been post ear infection. Well, no, we were probably
Speaker 1: on Raising Hell at that point, and I remember like
Speaker 1: a somewhat heated conversation where you were like dude. You
Speaker 1: didn't say do but like the equivalent of dude, But
Speaker 1: why is I mean, we're on tour. Why is our
Speaker 1: album not done? And I said, you know, it doesn't.
Speaker 1: And I remember, it's like it doesn't just happen, like
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's not happening because I don't want it
Speaker 1: to happen. It. Each of these things arrives when it arrives.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying. It's like we didn't
Speaker 1: go into the studio every day with the idea of, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make something today. It was more like making
Speaker 1: beats in the dorm, listening to records, like coming up
Speaker 1: with what us what a track was gonna be, which
Speaker 1: sometimes would be six weeks or two months between songs.
Speaker 1: You know, it took. It was a long period of time.
Speaker 1: I can't remember from the time that we made whatever
Speaker 1: the first song was for that record till we made
Speaker 1: the last song. I'm guessing it was eighteen months. Could
Speaker 1: have been two years. It felt like a long time.
Speaker 1: And so also the other thing you guys talk about
Speaker 1: miss Mike and I'm talking about in the show is
Speaker 1: going away on tour and coming back and you'd finished
Speaker 1: the record and mixed it, and they were surprised that
Speaker 1: it was this big thing where they thought they were
Speaker 1: making a sort of more low fi punk rap record.
Speaker 1: Talking about that was that something you always saw, you
Speaker 1: always and knew that that was the sound? Not at all.
Speaker 1: In any case, there was no preconception or what something
Speaker 1: was supposed to sound like. It was just making it
Speaker 1: sound as good as it could sound for what it was,
Speaker 1: whatever it was. It's like SAME's true with LLL or
Speaker 1: SAME's true with Raising Hell. It wasn't like there was
Speaker 1: no thought to it. And the gated snare thing was
Speaker 1: like a it's interesting you bring it up, because it
Speaker 1: was a it was like a moment in time. And
Speaker 1: I think it was really what was the art of noise?
Speaker 1: That it was the thing that got everyone excited about
Speaker 1: this kind of drum sound, and that was probably like
Speaker 1: experimenting in that art of noisy way that led to
Speaker 1: That's my guess. If you had if you had Art
Speaker 1: of Noise to oven and man Parish twelve innch, which
Speaker 1: one would you put on first? Both? I liked them both.
Speaker 1: We can't put on both first. No, I wouldn't depends
Speaker 1: on It depends on the scenario depends on the scene.
Speaker 1: So you read a room, Yeah, it going off. Can
Speaker 1: you turn the fucking roosters down in the mixt please?
Speaker 1: Roosters are feeling it. The roosters are deep in the
Speaker 1: paint today. Oh God. I wanted to ask Mike and
Speaker 1: Adam about their memories of chun King also, oh man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's a good question. I well, I feelings like
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, I think I was. We were
Speaker 1: with you Rick and we were talking and Jaburnette was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you guys gotta work at this place. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think he said chun Kings. We I feel like
Speaker 1: we named chun King. He's just like, oh you got
Speaker 1: oh a seeking is called secret Society, then that's right.
Speaker 1: He's like, you got to work at the studio my
Speaker 1: friend's studio, Secret Society. But he was like talking about
Speaker 1: that I guess, like the Nive console or something that
Speaker 1: stuff that he as a kid, I didn't really understand,
Speaker 1: but he was all excited about it. So we were like, okay, bet,
Speaker 1: and then we go there and it's just kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't really know about studios, but it's
Speaker 1: just like kind of bummy yeah, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: not like nothing, there's nothing fancy about it. It seemed
Speaker 1: like every other week, like we'd go there one week
Speaker 1: and the next week like walls, like they always kept
Speaker 1: moving walls around. Yeah, do you remember that? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. I remember because it was kind of a
Speaker 1: loft space that the guy built out and he was
Speaker 1: just kind of moving stuff around. It was a weird place.
Speaker 1: I remember when we graffitied. We graffitied the wall behind
Speaker 1: the console, and at first, like I kind of remember,
Speaker 1: we got yelled at. And then it became the thing
Speaker 1: of the studios that everybody came there and did graffiti
Speaker 1: while they while they recorded. I remember the first time
Speaker 1: that we went there, psyched, We're gonna go to a
Speaker 1: recording student. I've been like the young and the users
Speaker 1: recorded at a nice recording studio. And this place was
Speaker 1: like a fucking dump. Yeah. It was fucking literally a
Speaker 1: dead fish in the fish tank and it was dark.
Speaker 1: It was like super dark, like everything was dark. I
Speaker 1: was like, why why is it? Why are we going
Speaker 1: to the scary like haunted house? Remember walking up it
Speaker 1: was like five flight walk up. It was dirt, dingy,
Speaker 1: dirty place. No, I remember the elevator because it was
Speaker 1: all graffiti and somebody wrote their name. It was all
Speaker 1: this graffiti, and someone wrote jose Ninas in the top corner,
Speaker 1: and every time we got in the elevator, we thought
Speaker 1: that was the funniest name. And it literally we laughed
Speaker 1: every time we were in that elevator because Ninus is
Speaker 1: a funny last name. I feel like we we laughed
Speaker 1: a lot at chum King. Yeah. Well, and on the
Speaker 1: way there and on the way out, like it was
Speaker 1: just it was I think part one of the key
Speaker 1: things about License was making it. It never felt like
Speaker 1: we were making an owl like it just felt like
Speaker 1: exactly what you just heard that. It was like that
Speaker 1: was just part of all right, wake up, go to
Speaker 1: your dorm room, listen to some records, you know, go
Speaker 1: to Cozy Super and Burger Than whatever club's going on
Speaker 1: that night, and said, if there's an idea studio. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like that, you know, the clod like Adam said, like,
Speaker 1: it's not like we were making an album for this
Speaker 1: amount of time. And actually it's funny. I think back
Speaker 1: at you talking about me calling you and making that
Speaker 1: phone call and asked her, like, what's up with the record.
Speaker 1: I kind of now I'm thinking back, and I remember
Speaker 1: we were on the Raising Hell tour and I remember
Speaker 1: Run being really excited Run and Russell getting me all excited,
Speaker 1: like like you know, like you got a call like
Speaker 1: what's taking so long with your album? Like you guys
Speaker 1: should be like Run because he'd heard like by that,
Speaker 1: you know, he was so excited about Hold It Now,
Speaker 1: which was Hold It Now was like one of those
Speaker 1: songs like we're talking about, like we were out of
Speaker 1: the club. I remember like we I remember you went
Speaker 1: in there and just played like around like a bunch
Speaker 1: of different like scratching things in off of records, and
Speaker 1: I think they even put down the verses. And then
Speaker 1: I remember you and Russell kind of like hearing it
Speaker 1: after we've already already done some stuff, and you specifically
Speaker 1: being really excited about it. I loved it, and you
Speaker 1: were like actually more excited even than we were, where
Speaker 1: you were like, yeah, this is it, Like this is
Speaker 1: this is what you guys need to be making. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was mind blowing. I loved it. Oh you know,
Speaker 1: quest Love just told me a story the other day
Speaker 1: that I wonder if you guys know this in Philly.
Speaker 1: When Hold It Now came out as a single, the
Speaker 1: version that was released to radio was the a cappella,
Speaker 1: which we called the Acapulco. And so in Philly people
Speaker 1: thought that the song didn't have a beat or any
Speaker 1: music or anything. It was just vocals. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just it was just vocals. And he thought, Wow, this
Speaker 1: is the craziest record I ever heard. It's just this
Speaker 1: rhyming and he said. And it was really well liked
Speaker 1: in Philly, even though it was such such a crazy,
Speaker 1: you know, the first rap record not to have any music,
Speaker 1: and it was a hit. And then when the album
Speaker 1: came out and it had to beat, nobody liked it
Speaker 1: because they were used to the a cappella version, which
Speaker 1: they thought was just like the greatest thing they ever heard.
Speaker 1: We were talking to him and he was saying something.
Speaker 1: It just reminded me of words that we'd tried to
Speaker 1: force into like common you know speak. We'd pick random
Speaker 1: words and be like, oh, no, this is this is
Speaker 1: what people say. Now I can't Why am I blank?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm like, I'm blanking on him so bad.
Speaker 1: But we picked like a few different words yeah, or phrases.
Speaker 1: It would be. Sometimes it be a phrase too, like
Speaker 1: you'd you'd hear someone say something at the club that
Speaker 1: was just normal to them and we would laugh, Like
Speaker 1: brass Monkey came from Jazzy J talking about what he
Speaker 1: liked to drink, and just like, yeah, it's like, what's
Speaker 1: funnier than brass monkey? Oh my god, brass monkey is
Speaker 1: That was a crazy night with Tila Rock. Tell me
Speaker 1: I don't remember it. So you were producing a record
Speaker 1: for a rapper named Tela Rock. Yes, and we were
Speaker 1: going to go to the studio with you because that
Speaker 1: we just that That's also what I like when you're young,
Speaker 1: you're just you just go with your friend wherever they're going.
Speaker 1: Like it's just funny to think about going with your
Speaker 1: friend to their job, Like, no, you can't come to
Speaker 1: my job. I'm working. What are you doing? And so
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it. The place was in Queens
Speaker 1: or Long Island or somewhere. It was like it was
Speaker 1: like we had to take a car. It was really far. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and me and Skilcomb were there and it was just nuts.
Speaker 1: It just seems so growing. There was like grown ups
Speaker 1: that we didn't know. I don't know Telea Rock, but
Speaker 1: it was like a real rap scene. It was just weird.
Speaker 1: And then Jazzy Jay passed around a bottle of brass
Speaker 1: Monkey and me and Skilcombe were like, this is fucking delicious.
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't know that you guys. You guys actually
Speaker 1: drank it. Oh yeah. The whole night was crazy. And
Speaker 1: then we spraded in two separate cars and we're like
Speaker 1: in Long Island, We're like, where are we and getting
Speaker 1: white Castle? Anyway, it was a really it was a
Speaker 1: nice night. Yeah. I remember going. I remember taking cars
Speaker 1: to white castles. It was hard in Manhattan. It was
Speaker 1: hard to get white Castle. I know, probably for the best.
Speaker 1: But what do we say because rope a dope, like
Speaker 1: in late eighties rope, and I'm just I just remember
Speaker 1: one word. We'd say that shit is dope and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, that's dope. It's rope a dope. And then
Speaker 1: we were like we was like, oh, that's rope, and
Speaker 1: nobody like, no, not last rope. We said it did
Speaker 1: not last. That is so funny. It's too bad because
Speaker 1: it's kind of great. Nobody else was like, oh that's rope,
Speaker 1: what do you I forgot rope? Rope is great. We
Speaker 1: got to bring back rope. Rope is really fun. Me
Speaker 1: though it's explaining the joke, it's not that good. I
Speaker 1: feel like Flavor had a lot of the flavors normal
Speaker 1: waves speaking, had a lot of references that could work
Speaker 1: their way into songs. Like of everyone we hung out with,
Speaker 1: Flavor was a gold mine of phrases. I just wanted
Speaker 1: you to know. The last time I saw Flavor, I
Speaker 1: was in my car in New York stopped at a
Speaker 1: red light, and he got in my car and I
Speaker 1: was just like, what's like, someone's getting in my car
Speaker 1: and it's Flavor, And he's like, yo, let's up, take
Speaker 1: me to like thirty sixth Street, And so I drove him.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, good to see you. Wow.
Speaker 1: It was fucking nuts. Did you guys go to at
Speaker 1: all to the studio when Public Enemy was recording? No,
Speaker 1: I just remember I remember going to their to the
Speaker 1: radio show of the Spectrum City Yeah show in Long
Speaker 1: Island and doing that, And I remember just like listening
Speaker 1: with you and on our own then when we were
Speaker 1: on to like listening to them demo for the song
Speaker 1: Public Enemy number one, like I mean on repeat, Like
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a single demo. There's gobe no
Speaker 1: demo we listened to that much. Maybe no single song
Speaker 1: that we listened to so incessantly it was. That was
Speaker 1: so mind blowingly good. It was incredible. I remember listening
Speaker 1: to it all the time. I'm trying to think with
Speaker 1: what were the other things that that were like that
Speaker 1: were like they really took over our lives for a
Speaker 1: period of time. Can you remember, oh, Eric Eric B
Speaker 1: for president? Yeah, well I wouldna say that school school
Speaker 1: D school school, egg PSK people and nothing but squares.
Speaker 1: Remember like how many times we really listen to that
Speaker 1: in your dorm room and everywhere else? Like yeah, when
Speaker 1: he especially that thing of like school like school D's
Speaker 1: whole intro on that thing like nah, no school school,
Speaker 1: what time is it? What was his DJ's name, code money, money,
Speaker 1: get your fish code code cod So good, oh man,
Speaker 1: such good records, so funny. I mean, I guess whatever
Speaker 1: we are of a certain age, so we that's but
Speaker 1: we will talk about often, like it is incredible how
Speaker 1: many great rap records were coming out, like nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, like just mind blowingly good rap records.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember which were the what were the
Speaker 1: other ones that really like move the Needle for us
Speaker 1: Zucker MCS was everything obviously right? They read DMC were
Speaker 1: the I mean, they were the archetypes. They were like
Speaker 1: you know, I mean then Jay talks so much about
Speaker 1: performing and how to sort of put a rap show together,
Speaker 1: um and how you know, I think got along with
Speaker 1: you how to put a rap record together. Was there
Speaker 1: anything else that we had that wasn't out, like like
Speaker 1: with the Public Enemy TAPEBA is a demo? I remember
Speaker 1: biz Markie was out. I remember when we heard that
Speaker 1: first bis Marquis Twilit and talking about it with DMC
Speaker 1: and Jay and being really excited about it. You had
Speaker 1: a demo for Slick Rick Children's Story Rick, Oh remember
Speaker 1: love that right? Right? Well? Because that was another thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, Lotti Dotti the show. We must have. We
Speaker 1: must listened to Lotti Dotti the show again, unquantifiable amounts
Speaker 1: of times. Do you remember the story of let me
Speaker 1: where letting Me clear my throat came from? I have
Speaker 1: a vague I have a memory, but I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's accurate. No, tell me, I don't My memory.
Speaker 1: Was that on LLL's demo tape that you found in
Speaker 1: the box of demo tapes that came to the dorm.
Speaker 1: Before he started rhyming, he said, and let me clear
Speaker 1: my throat, And I remember that we for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: it was the funniest thing we ever heard. It made
Speaker 1: I mean it was, It wasn't there was nothing funny
Speaker 1: about it, but somehow the idea that that was the
Speaker 1: first thing said before the the song starts. I know,
Speaker 1: it's so easy to take that out now, do you know?
Speaker 1: It's so it's so easy, But back then you couldn't.
Speaker 1: You just you didn't know how to take stuff out,
Speaker 1: and just whatever you record it was on there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was nothing. But for some reason,
Speaker 1: I remember we latched onto It's like, this is just
Speaker 1: the funniest thing we've ever heard. We just latched onto it.
Speaker 1: And I can't remember how it ended up getting into
Speaker 1: the song. I'm sure you were like, wait, let you
Speaker 1: should say let you should scream that really angrily. It's funny.
Speaker 1: It's so dumb. But again, it's the beauty of It's
Speaker 1: in such a different context too, though, on this on
Speaker 1: our song as opposed to his demo tape. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: that's the beauty of the montage of hip hop. That's
Speaker 1: how like recontextualizing things that you find in the world. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: any other memories of dance eteria. I feel like that
Speaker 1: was sort of the place that I remember we went
Speaker 1: to the most. So many I mean so much, so many. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, where were sorry? I mean really that Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was Dollie were the first places we
Speaker 1: would talk to girls I thought you were you were
Speaker 1: just claiming junior high school status, so you're doing all
Speaker 1: kinds of things, But um, all right, dance there, I
Speaker 1: would say, like me, just like hearing you didn't know.
Speaker 1: They were like the songs that you would hear every
Speaker 1: every night, like uh uh app shoot you Down? Or
Speaker 1: or New Order, um confusion you'd hear like every single night,
Speaker 1: or didn't didn't do medium, medium medium medium. My favorite
Speaker 1: top three favorite things of dance interia was being on
Speaker 1: that dance floor room, second floor, just in the corner
Speaker 1: by the stairs. Would always be hanging out, the music
Speaker 1: would be playing, people be dancing, and there was some
Speaker 1: guy in the middle of the crowd would be like,
Speaker 1: wheren't that body And it wasn't just like once, it
Speaker 1: was like every night. Yeah, memories of the Roxy. I
Speaker 1: remember the Rocks. I remember two things. I remember Africa
Speaker 1: Bambada playing Uh, Tony Basil, You're oh, Mickey, You're so
Speaker 1: fine at the Roxy. So like you know, I'm there
Speaker 1: like a white kid at the Rosy is like the
Speaker 1: most fee boy place ever. And here's Africa Bombada, one
Speaker 1: of the most important hip hop DJs ever, and he's
Speaker 1: playing Tony Basil like you know not there's nothing that
Speaker 1: I thought of rap like music like that when I
Speaker 1: associated with Tony Basil, and I was just like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's incredibly he could make Tony Basil old Nicky, you're
Speaker 1: so fine. Work in the Roxy was a credible that
Speaker 1: And then I just remember being scared to go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom at the Roxy. Roxy was just it was
Speaker 1: just like dudes like selling coke and getting high and
Speaker 1: like shit was scary. I just felt like I was
Speaker 1: gonna get robbed in the bathroom. Yeah, well that that
Speaker 1: I remember because I went to Roxy when I was
Speaker 1: a kid because it was a roller skating place and
Speaker 1: so I don't I don't know how to rollerskape, but
Speaker 1: like it's like a thing you go and hang out
Speaker 1: at the roller skating place. And so then later A
Speaker 1: few years later, Roxy was a thing where we would
Speaker 1: go to, you know, the disco, and I remember when
Speaker 1: we were there. I don't know it was the first
Speaker 1: time we're there. But then like fucking shots rang out
Speaker 1: and someone had a gun and was shooting and people running.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not the same thing from
Speaker 1: when I was eleven, twelve, you know whatever, it's It
Speaker 1: was a place you put a bunch of teenage dudes
Speaker 1: in the same place and weird shit's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Why is that it is the case? But why teenage
Speaker 1: dudes are stupid? I don't know what to say. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that the Hey Mickey reference that Bambody
Speaker 1: used and that probably led that hearing that there probably
Speaker 1: was a step in why the song It's Tricky got made.
Speaker 1: Oh there you're gonna say world destruction and for him
Speaker 1: it's like the same beat, yeah, because world destruction is
Speaker 1: like the same beat. Yeah. Yeah, I just I just
Speaker 1: remember It's Tricky being like feeling. There were certain vibes
Speaker 1: that you would feel at a hip hop club that
Speaker 1: stood out that were different than the others. It's like, hmmm,
Speaker 1: how do you incorporate that feel? Because that definitely feels good,
Speaker 1: like we're in the club, this feels great. That's now
Speaker 1: part of the language. Like that felt like, okay, that's
Speaker 1: part of the language. In hip hop. It'd be if
Speaker 1: you were in a band and somebody in a band
Speaker 1: did a waltz beat instead of a four four beat,
Speaker 1: and you'd say, oh, that's a new part of the vocabulary.
Speaker 1: You can write a song with a waltz beat. Not
Speaker 1: matter at a waltz beat. I got, you know, I
Speaker 1: got tons of songs with walt speeds. Oh wait. One
Speaker 1: thing Rick I did want to say is you were
Speaker 1: talking about how I don't even know how to explain
Speaker 1: it to people, or maybe it's not even worth trying
Speaker 1: to explain, but like we were talking about opening for Madonna,
Speaker 1: but that it's it's also it's very interesting. We look
Speaker 1: obviously we've we've changed a lot through the years, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting to me because people know I
Speaker 1: feel like relate to us or a lot of people
Speaker 1: know us just from like license to old Beastie Boys,
Speaker 1: and then there's a lot of people that grew up
Speaker 1: with us through a lot of stuff whatever, but a
Speaker 1: lot of people know it's just like it's in that
Speaker 1: Increa Nation license at all time. And I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting with you. You were like such a big part
Speaker 1: of like when we were opening up from a data
Speaker 1: and this like this whole idea like persona. But then
Speaker 1: people actually know you now, like from your persona now,
Speaker 1: not from like like how you would talk then. And
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to explain when I try
Speaker 1: to explain to people how you would talk in sort
Speaker 1: of like when you're excited about, like for wrestling, and
Speaker 1: how you would do that, I don't even know how
Speaker 1: to capture it or explain it. Yeah, it's definitely a
Speaker 1: ramped up character inspired by like Roddy Piper would be
Speaker 1: one of the key get Rick Flair, the guys who
Speaker 1: would who you'd want to see lose and who would
Speaker 1: often find a way to win through cheating. But they
Speaker 1: were the funniest. They always like the bad guys in wrestling.
Speaker 1: The bad guys have the best lines. So they were
Speaker 1: the most charismatic and funniest characters. So I put on
Speaker 1: that air that has to do with Youth, Michael Youth,
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck. Thank you for doing this. Great
Speaker 1: to see you, Adam. I'd miss you. I love you
Speaker 1: and I look forward to continuing U B bridging the
Speaker 1: years that we've missed. Love it too, Rick. Nice to
Speaker 1: talk to you, Thank your rigors. Great to see you,
Speaker 1: Spike a pleasure. I miss you. I miss you. Better
Speaker 1: see you later you guys by right. Thanks to Mike,
Speaker 1: Adam and Spike for taking the time to catch up
Speaker 1: with Rick. You can hear all our favorite Beastie Boys
Speaker 1: songs plus the other songs mentioned in this episode, but
Speaker 1: heading to Broken Record podcast dot com and be sure
Speaker 1: to check out our YouTube channel where we can find
Speaker 1: some great bonus material from past episodes. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast. Broken Record
Speaker 1: is produced with help from Jason Gambrel, Mio Lobelle, Leo Rose,
Speaker 1: and Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Theme music is by
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.