WEBVTT - Part Two: How Hollywood Helped The Nazis 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:09.160 Mhm, and we're back. I'm Robert Evans, and this is 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.320 Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.280 you don't know about the very worst people in all 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 of history. And today this is the second part of 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:20.440 a two part episode on the Nazis and Hollywood. My 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.560 guest today is Daniel van Kirk, and we are both 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.880 A fan suggested Tapatio derritos to us and they're amazing. 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.360 We're eating them right now, really really good. Yeah. I 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.640 did not want this in my life and now I'm 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:35.320 never gonna be able to get rid of. I'm gonna 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.200 take these two parties. Oh they're amazing. I'm gonna tell 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.360 people to have parties so that I can take them 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:41.879 to them. Like, I want to get through the rest 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:43.680 of this episode as quickly as possible so I can 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.320 binge eat the rest of these delicious tapato wanting more 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.720 and on fire again. We have not received a scent 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.640 from the Dorrito's company. This is all just free enthusiasm 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.360 over their products. Um so, Daniel, you should probably plug 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.000 your stuff for the four listeners who aren't gonna listen 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.680 to part one and are going to jump into part 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.160 two and part one so that that is an approach. 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.240 I want to let everybody know that they can listen 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.160 to me on the Dumb People Tom podcast, which is 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.720 show that I host and the Squad Brothers do as well. 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.760 And then I have another podcast called pen Pals, and 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.280 that is why Scovill and myself reading people's letters. You 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.160 sound us anything you want, we write you back audibly. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.120 We say it's your podcast. We just talked about it. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.000 And then I have a show called Hindsight where I 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.360 have creators, comedians, producers, directors, writers. They bring through photos 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.040 from any chapter of their life and we just talked 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.480 about the context of their life when each photo was taken. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.120 Speaking of context, let's talk about the context of the 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.199 nineteen thirties now. In the first episode, we talked about 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:48.240 how the early German sensor's basically threatened Hollywood with cutting 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.840 them off, getting Germany off from the movies entirely unless 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.040 they made certain changes to the movies in order to 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.880 make them more palatable for for Germans. And you know, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.120 this led to Hollywood not attacking the Nazis directly and 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:03.080 really not even really mentioning Judaism. The Nazis ramped up 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:09.160 there control and they ramped up the profitability for Hollywood 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.240 at the same time, and it was a gradual thing 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.080 where they'd ask for one thing and then a little 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.240 bit later that asked for another, and that's how they 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.280 do it. Yeah, And we also talked about The House 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.800 of Rothschild, the movie made to be a rebuke of 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.040 anti Semitism that also kind of wound up being a 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.760 little bit anti Semitic, to which all credit to the 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.680 knock He's the only guy so far, he's done the 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.040 right thing, but yeah, he could be like, tell me 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:32.760 who did it worse than me? Because I'm the only 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.800 one at this point? Is this better than nothing? You 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:40.680 prefer this to nothing? So it's important to note, like again, 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.040 one of the big questions here is what were the 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.000 studios collaborating directly with the Nazis or were they were 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.640 they just appeasing the Nazis in the same way that 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.800 everybody was appeasing the Nazis in the thirties, And in 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.680 order to sort of answer that question, one of the 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.160 things that's important to note is that the US has 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.720 has always had, and still has a pretty virulent ashist movement. 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:02.679 We've been seeing a lot more of that in the 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.720 last year or so, but it was particularly prominent in 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.079 the nineteen thirties, and even in Hollywood there were a 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.240 lot of fascist sympathizers. This was made very evident by 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.120 the production of a movie called Gabriel over the White House. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.200 It was probably the first explicitly fascist fictional movie of 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.560 all time. Um the basic premise is that a president 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.480 suffers a terrible car accident and undergoes a personality change. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.920 Uh he goes in front of Congress, castigates them for 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.440 wasting America's money, and then demands them to declare a 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:36.680 national emergency and vote him absolute power. While he's chastising 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.600 Congress for fucking up the country, somebody calls him a dictator, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.280 and he snaps back, I believe in democracy as Washington, Jefferson, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.160 and Lincoln believed in democracy, and if what I planned 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:48.800 to do in the name of the people makes me 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.800 a dictator, then it is a dictator. Based on Jefferson's 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.000 definition of democracy, a government for the greatest good of 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.760 the greatest number. So none of this is a satire, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.200 although some people have tried to say that, since this 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.360 is not presented as a bad thing either. He's the hero, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.240 the president who takes dictatorial control of the country to 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.640 fix its problems is the hero. But see's so crazy 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.160 because he says that thing where he says, what do 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.120 you say Jefferson's definition? Yeah, the greatest good for the 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.880 greatest number of people. Yeah, But the the ending to that, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.000 the rebuttal to that is the greatest good for the 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.720 greatest number of people without their choice. Yeah, without them 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.560 having any sort of saying that. Yeah, that doesn't come 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.600 up in the movie. So the film that or the 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.400 movie was based off of a book, and the book 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:35.960 was had been written by a british Man during a 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:41.640 long boat ride who basically wondered to himself a Britishman 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.520 during a long boat ride. Yeah, I wondered, wouldn't it 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.799 be great if America became fascist? That was basically his 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.760 his Yeah, I mean he thought it wouldn't be Now 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.520 he'd never ever been to America when he wrote this book. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.279 He's got a lot of it. Never need to go 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.720 to America to write a book about it. Yeah, So 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.920 he writes this book and will Liam Randolph Hurst loves it, 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.720 and William Randolph Hurst is like, this motherfucker's got to 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.000 be a movie. So Hurst is the dude who decides 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.839 to make this into a movie, the guy who wants 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:14.120 to run everything. Yeah. So Hayes, the chief censor, was 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.839 also actually the only person who raised any objection to 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.120 the contents of Gabriel over the White House. He worried 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.279 that people might quote regarded as a direct indictment of 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.000 the plurility and falliability of today's government machinery and personnel, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:28.800 and that only by a blow in the head of 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.360 the president and its consequent acts of a deranged man 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.960 is enough righteousness and wisdom put into the executive branch 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.960 of the government to lead. So that's his problem, is 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:39.760 that like it's saying, well, you're saying the government so 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.800 fun that the president needs a head injury to be 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.800 good at being the president. So Hayes complains and changes 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:47.520 are made to the film. They don't make the film 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.320 any less fascistic. Instead, they make it clear to the 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.400 viewer that rather than being addled in his accent, the 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.320 president has been taken over by God who is using 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.560 him as a conduit to save the nation. Lines that 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.479 emphas sized his supernatural power were added. This is one 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.280 of the people who knows the president of this movie 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.120 talking about so what if he What if it wasn't 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.520 so much about him getting injured, but but just spiritually 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.880 woke in the name of Jesus Christ. Yeah, what if 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.320 he's a vessel for God that takes over the country 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.600 and turns into a dictatorship. That's a better idea. I'm 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:23.080 William hayes sensor. So here's a line of someone talking 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.800 about the president in the movie that was added as 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.040 a result of Hayes's suggestions. Quote, there's something about him, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.480 something new and terribly strange, which deprives you of volition 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.359 or of any capacity to act and think for yourself. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.040 It is easier to give way than to continue fighting 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.799 for your ego. You become content to serve, to serve, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.120 and wait his pleasure. Again, this is not portrayed as horrifying. 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.560 It's a good thing. It's good that the President's godly 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:52.920 aura has taken over your mind, dictating our government. So 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.600 Gabriel over the White House was unique at the time 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.960 because it was the first big Hollywood production to actually 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.479 address the Great Depression. For the first couple of years 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.200 of the Depression, Hollywood had avoided commenting on the issues 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.120 of the day in any of their movies, thinking it 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:06.920 would be a bad idea if they were seen as 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.480 trying to wade into politics or social issues. So I 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.680 wasn't even thinking about that. That That the impressions going on too. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.800 And this is the first major studio movie to address 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:22.960 the country's economic problems posits fascism as a solution. But see, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.760 isn't that sign of the vacuum that was also happening 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.560 in the nies in Germany? Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.680 the same. There's like this vacuum here for like a 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.240 need of like pick us up. Yeah, And it's it's 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.080 evidence that the same trends that put Hitler into power 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:38.880 could have easily put a fascist into power in the 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.520 United States because clearly people are thinking along those lines. 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.520 Wouldn't be great if some strong guy could just come 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.360 along and fix with the answers. Yeah, it's always a 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.240 threat like that. Like Germany wasn't the only country that 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.160 the current running through it? Um So. Gabriel over the 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.800 White House premiered in Berlin in February of ninety four. Obviously, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:02.080 it passed the censors. The Nazis of this movie. It 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.320 played for fifty and consecutive days in its first run. Ironically, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.440 Hayes's changes actually put the movie more in line with 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.760 a key Nazi concept, fewer princip or the leader principle. 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.920 This is sort of the core of Nazism, Like one 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.840 of the core kernels of Nazi ideology is the fewer principle. Um. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.040 It evolved out of the Social Darwinis theories of a 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.000 guy named Herman Groff caser Ling, who felt that certain 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.640 individuals were quote born to rule. The book Darker Legacies 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.440 of the Law in Europe sites the work of a 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.520 guy named Huber who gives a good explanation of the 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.000 fewer principles. So I'm going to quote that in the 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.680 Fewer the essential laws of the Vulcan, which is the 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.760 people come into manifestation. By allowing these essential laws to emerge, 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.120 he sets up the great common objectives that have to 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.480 be realized. The fewer embodies the overall will of the 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.440 people as an objective historical quantity. So the idea of 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.000 the fewer principle is that like, there's this the will 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.280 of the people can become manifest in a man, and 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.600 it's almost a supernatural thing, and he's chosen by destiny 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.440 to embody the people's will, which is exactly what Hayes 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.000 has changes had made it from like the president gets 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.160 hurt in the head and it makes him more decisive 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.240 to God chooses the president to be the vessel of 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.680 American from the viewpoint of the people. Not only is 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.240 he of us, he is us. Yeah, he is. He 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:21.280 speaks we speak through him. Exactly. So Hayes had inadvertently 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.480 made Gabriel Over the White House even better Nazi propaganda 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.720 as a result of his censorship, which hopefully was an accident. Yeah, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.280 I think it was an accident. Mulligan on that. Yeah, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.880 we'll give him Mulligan on accidentally making Nazi propaganda. Who 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:39.839 hasn't you know we all trial accidentally was so a 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.559 Nazi newspaper doubt and grief, which means the attack. Let 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.640 a man named Brandon. Yeah, it's the Nazi, the attack 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.520 and the like somebody in the writer's room for a 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.640 Nazi should have been little on the nose. We're calling 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.840 ourselves a little on the nose. They love that ship. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.960 So a Nazi reviewer reviewed Gabriel Over the White House 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.960 and concluded that the movie was proof that the fewer 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.480 principle was deeply embedded in the human soul that German 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.800 fascism was was emblematic of a greater human truth, because 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.360 even America's democratic traditions hadn't been able to destroy this. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.839 So like the Nazis watched this movie, they're like, oh, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.640 the Americans are fascists, Like they just haven't overthrown their 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.040 decadent government. But they feel it too. But they feel 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.400 it too. That's in all of this matter where you are. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.199 You know, if you try to do the opposite, you're 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:28.920 gonna end up being like, well, you know what feels 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:36.120 right though, fascism? Yeah, fuck it. Maybe they're right. Uh yeah, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.800 So here's a quote from that German movie reviewer. At 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.000 first the smiling, somewhat complacent parliamentary politician, then the completely 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.080 transformed figure of a man possessed by a holy fanaticism, 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.400 one who sees himself as above all party authority, as leader, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.720 and as patron of the interests of his entire people 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.920 and all of humanity. So again they see this as 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.440 clearly like, oh, this is just like America, being like, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.520 what if we had our own Hitler? They love it. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.600 So movie president fascist even got to commit a mass 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.400 murder of his own. That's part of the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.160 But because it's the thirties, the people he massacres are gangsters. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.400 They deserve it. Organized criminals. Yeah. Well, he describes these 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.920 people as like the running man. As long as these 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.000 people are like prisoners and jail, who cares they have 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.640 committed a crime, It's okay to kill anybody. Absolutely yeah 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.080 the movie. President describes these organized criminals as quote a malignant, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:32.000 cancerous growth eating at the spiritual health of the American people. Uh, 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.480 the only way to deal with gangsters is to eliminate them, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.240 so that our citizen, pursuing his peaceful way will no 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.520 longer be forced to conduct his business in the shadow 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.520 of extortion and debt. At one point, again meant to 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.040 be a heroic moment, the President gets the head gangster 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.640 and his men into a court martial and sentences them 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.720 all to die. You're the last of the racketeers, he said, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.000 And why because we have in the White House a 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.959 man who has enabled us to cut the red tape 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.840 of legal procedures and get back to first principles. And 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.880 I for an eye Nick Diamond, who's the head of 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.360 the gangsters. A tooth for a tooth, a life for 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.880 a life. So President movie Fascists sets up a concentration 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.079 camp on Ellis Island and personally oversees the execution of 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.679 all the gangsters. Now had concentration camps already begun. Oh, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.440 they've been happening for decades and decades in Germany over 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.679 the Nazi Germany. The word Nazi Germany. It happens as 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.760 soon as the Nazis are in power. They started at 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.320 first they have what are called the open air concentration camps, 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.360 but they're building camps this whole period of time. But 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.120 also concentration camps had started. We did a whole episode 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.080 on this, but they were very well established at this point. 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.040 So he lines up all the gangsters because you're camp 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.760 corrupt people, and he's sealing money. Yeah, and I'm going 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.280 to kill you all. And then the Nazi beasts and 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.280 then the Nazis watched this and go, now bear with me, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:55.960 what if I think gangster? But let's write ja Yeah, 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.120 yeah exactly. Um So the Nazis loved this movie v 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.760 but high ranking Nazis like Joseph Gebbels are actually very 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.840 frustrated by it. He liked the movie, but he hated 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.680 how much better American studios were in making fascist propaganda. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:16.240 He felt that actual Nazi filmmakers were often absolutely atrocious. Hitler, 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.240 for his part, didn't like propaganda entertainment. Hitler's feeling was 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.360 that quote, it makes me sick when I see political 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.720 propaganda hiding under the guys of art. Let it be 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.240 either art or politics, Jimmy King Kong, or give me 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.800 a newsreel. Don't give me both. Which is why the 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.600 most famous Nazi propaganda film is Triumph of the Will, 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.440 the famous Lennie reefinstall movie. If you've seen clips of 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.199 Germans Nazis marching and Hitler's it's probably from Triumph of 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.040 the Will. It's like the most famous proper explicitly propaganda 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.760 film of all time, but it was not overwhelmingly popular 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.720 in fact in Nazi Germany in the year that Triumph 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.560 of the Will was released nineteen thirty five. In that year, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.920 nine American films outperformed at the box office. So per 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.320 last episode, when I said, well, they'll all go see 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.439 it if it's American film. That that's not necessarily true. No, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.600 that will They won't go see a German fascist propaganda movie, 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.320 but they will all go see American movies that are 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.480 regarded as being fat because the American movies are entertaining, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.960 So so Gabriel over the White House performed the best 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.160 it performed. Well, oh, I thought you said there was 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.960 nine movies that performed better better than Triumph of the World. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.320 Triumph of the Will actually isn't in the top ten 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.840 most popular movies in Germany that you're released. Yeah, it 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.120 was not, because it's it's it's great if you want 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.680 to scare people about how powerful New Germany is. But 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:39.040 nobody watched that movie and got convinced of anything, right, gotcha, gotcha? 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.560 So I'm going to read a quote from the collaboration 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.359 which is talking about sort of how the Nazis propaganda 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.160 movies were not particularly successful in Nazi Germany. In a sense, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.320 the most successful Nazi propaganda film of the nineteen thirties 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.120 was not Triumph of the Will, commissioned by Hitler, but 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.720 The Lives of a Bengal Lancer produced by Paramount Now. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.000 The Eyes of the Bengal Lancer was a very popular 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.800 movie at the time in the United States. It was 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.360 nominated for seven Academy Awards. It focused around a unit 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.360 of British cavalrymen defending their headquarters in Bengal from a 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.040 local Indian uprising. Gary Cooper played a leading role the 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.640 bad guy Mohammed Khan was probably the first character in 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:18.840 history to use the line we have ways to make 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.600 men talk in a torture scene. So that's where that 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.440 that you've heard different variations, that's where that originated from. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.120 The Nazis loved this movie because it yet again provided 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.880 a perfect depiction of the fewer principle at work. The 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.640 colonel in charge of the British cavalry unit is depicted 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.400 as infalliable. He's not even willing to negotiate with the 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.920 enemy when they capture his own son. One of the 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.920 colonel soldiers criticizes him for this and gets harangued by 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.880 a major who basically outlines Nazi racial theory in a 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.800 few words. Man, you are blind. Have you never thought how? 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.000 For generation after generation, here a handful of men have 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.280 ordered the lives of three million people. It's because he's here, 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.440 and a few more like him, men of his breed 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.520 have made British India men who put their jobs above everything. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.640 He wouldn't let death move him from it, and he 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.000 won't let love move him from it. When his breed 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.920 of man dies out. That's the end. And it's a 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.240 better breed of man than any of us will ever make. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.560 And it's worth noting as Erland does that. In the 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.960 German version of this movie, the major says a handful 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.080 of white men protect three hundred Indians from chaos. So 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.120 the movie was actually edited by Hollywood to make it 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.480 more racist for the Nazis. Yeah, watching this movie gave 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.080 Joseph Gebel's the insight that in effective propaganda, a hero 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.800 does not always speak heroically, but he acts heroically. In 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.600 other words, it's more effective to make a propaganda movie 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:44.440 that doesn't say what it's propagandizing for, that shows it exactly. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.400 The Life of a Bengal Lancer became one of Hitler's 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.160 favorite movies of all time. The Hitler Youth screened it 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.200 for tens of thousands of young Nazis. Gert Eckert, their leader, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.520 noted ruefully, it is shameful that our filmmakers lack the 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.080 courage to make a movie like The Lives Live of 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.880 a Bengal Lancer. So when we think of Nazi propaganda, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.280 we think of triumph of the will. When Nazis thought 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.880 about effective Nazi propaganda. They thought a Gary fucking Cooper ship, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.000 Thanks Paramount. Yeah, these are not the only pro fascist 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.240 movies made by Hollywood in this time. There was another 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.560 film called Our Daily Bread that was a great example 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.119 of fascism in Hollywood in the thirties. On its surface, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.160 the film was about a bunch of unemployed men who 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.439 start a farm together. At one point, all the men 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.160 sit down to try to decide how to like organize 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.560 their new society. Right, one guy suggests, basically anarchy where 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.600 everybody's equal. One guy suggested democracy where everybody votes. And 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.360 then one dude's like, what if we make the protagonist 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.159 of the movie. What if he's just in charge of 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.280 us and we all blindly follow whatever he says, And 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.280 then everybody cheers and immediately realize that this is the 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.239 best way to organize. But would they tell you in 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:56.160 Hollywood that this this also is a response to the depression? Yeah, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.040 of like, these people don't have anything, so they set 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.800 out to go and make on their own and farm 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.919 their own land and not have to rely on the 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.120 government falling out from under them. Yes, but when they 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.840 have to pick a leader for their group, everything is 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.600 all the different political styles are suggested and they go 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.399 with one guy is just an absolute ruler. Yeah, and 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.679 they cheer that like that, Like the Nazis loved Our 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.600 Daily Bread played for fifty five weeks in Nazi Germany, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:28.080 like more than a year. Ernst Choral, Production chief of UFA, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.240 the German film production company, actually wrote a report on 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.120 the movie and basically said that it was such perfect 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.080 fascist propaganda that it seemed like it had been made 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.639 under orders from the propaganda ministry like that. He was like, 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.920 this is such a perfect movie. I feel like Joseph 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.679 Gebel's outlined the plot for them to follow. So the 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.879 Nazis also loved. Mr Smith gost to Washington UH and 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.920 said that it was quote excellent propaganda that riticals corruption 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.199 and parliamentarianism in Washington. Jimmy Stewart don't like that, no, well, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.560 I mean Jimmy Stewart bombed the Nazis in World War Two. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.399 But they looked at it and saw, well, here's a 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.600 movie about how shitty democracy is and how one guy 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.119 with a vision has to come in and fix this 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.480 corrupt town. You see that, Like that's that's the key, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.080 because this means you want to say that they're retrofitting it, right, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.879 but it's so, but it's also there. It's there, And 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.359 this is one of the things that's scary because this 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.520 is still the way movies work, where it's just if 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.080 you're telling a story, you've got ninety minutes, you're trying 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.119 to get a lot of It's easier to have one person. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.800 You know, in history it's usually big groups of people 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.040 who make things happen. It's way easier to pick one protagonist. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.600 But that also these stories that are easy to follow 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.440 also kind of reinforce these attitudes that like you're behind 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.920 one man, get behind one man, and so a lot 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.040 of it is not that there's even direct collaboration going on, 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.280 it's just that the way movies work is entertainment really 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:54.040 wound up reinforcing Nazi beliefs about how the Untrix fascist 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.840 film kind of right a little bit. I mean, if 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.119 you want to view with that, you could. If The 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.280 Matrix had come out nineteen thirty six, I think the 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.040 Germans would have loved it and also would have seen 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.440 that the Smith as a Jewish stand very racist. But yeah, 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.760 the one, the one we need him, Yeah, he is 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.760 the savior. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's you think too 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.359 much about it and you start to get kind of 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.760 hopeless about the nature of storytelling because there is an 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.000 aspect of it where it's like, well, how do you 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.760 tell a story without reinforcing these things? But also I'm 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.080 saying on some level there has to be some retrofitting. 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.880 But when you but then that's why you get into 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.480 the book, the collaboration where you're like, how much was 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.160 and we do know that lions were at it, and like, yeah, 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.680 and we know that Joseph Gebbels was. He was very 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.840 frustrated by all this because he loved Hollywood movies, but 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.360