1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything. Hey, guys, welcome back to the Worst 3 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: Year Ever. My name is Katie Stool. I've got a name. 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: It's Cody John Hello. Hi, Hi Robert. Today we decided 5 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: to sit down with Jenny Mall from the Center for 6 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: Reproductive Rights to discuss some of the ways that governments 7 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: are well trying to take away our abortion rights in 8 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: different states. I don't know if very many of you 9 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: have seen these stories. It's really easy to get lost 10 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: in the shuffle with all the other news that's going on, 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: but this is a very real and scary thing that 12 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: happened almost immediately after shelter and place orders were announced. 13 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 1: So we were really lucky to sit down with Jenny 14 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: and and hear about the different cases they have going 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: on and the steps that they're doing to fight this. Well. 16 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: Hargold argo boog boog. Let's have us a conversation. Let's 17 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: play the audio of that. Okay, that's our new catchphrase. Yeah, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure we can take it away, Daniel. All right, Well, 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: today we are joined by Jenny ma who was a 20 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: senior staff attorney with the Center for Reproductive Rights. Hi, Jenny, Hi, 21 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: how are you well? I'm doing okay. How are you. 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: We're hanging in there. Thanks so much for having Well, 23 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: we're really grateful to you for taking the time to 24 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: speak with this. Uh. We know you're very, very busy, 25 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: but we're very excited to hear what you are working 26 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: on over there. I'm sure most of our listeners are 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: familiar with your organization, but can we start by telling 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: us a little bit about the center and what it does? Sure, 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: the Center for Reproductive Rights is a global organization, so 30 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: we work on domestic as well as global matters, and 31 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: we use the power of the law to advance reproductive 32 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: rights as fundamental human rights around the world. And my 33 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: role UM as a litigator is to litigate and state 34 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: and federal courts, um to ensure that on constitutional laws 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: do not go into effect across the United States. That's 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: a greally concise answer. It seems like you've done that before, 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: um mission. Uh. Well, with everything going on right now, UM, 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: we're seeing that it's really easy to lose track of 39 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: all the different ways that you know, governments are kind 40 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: of using coronavirus as a cover to chip away at rights. Uh. 41 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: For example, we've seen a lot of states trying to 42 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: shut down or shutting down abortion clinics, you know, saying 43 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: that it's an interest of public safety? Does that bite? 44 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: That being very counterintuitive? UM? And I know that that 45 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: is something that you're currently really a mention and we 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: would love to have you walk us through what's happening, 47 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, from for the virus up until now and 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: all the stuff that we should be aware of. Yeah. Absolutely, UM. 49 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Hopefully some of your listeners have heard what's been going around, um, 50 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: across the United States with regards to abortion and what's 51 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: been going on with COVID nineteen. But UM, if I 52 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: can backtrack just a little bit, the Center did have 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: this case argued before the Supreme Court. UM. It was 54 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: called June Medical Services versus Russo way back when, which 55 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: seems like a lifetime ago. Um, back in March fourth, Yeah, 56 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: five years ago, in March, a hundred years ago, a 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: century ago. UM. And you know, coming off of that, 58 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: we really thought that we were going to enter into 59 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: a time where we would just watch the state legislatures 60 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: and see if they would pass bands or other restrictions. 61 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: That's what we do in a normal year. Every year, 62 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: state legislatures meet so times they'll be proactive bills to 63 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: protect reproductive rights. But oftentimes, as you guys have probably 64 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: seen in the media, there's bands being UM promulgated to 65 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: like twenty week bands, UM, six week bans, fifteen week 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: bans like and and most recently last year you saw 67 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: Alabama try like basically a total ban on Yes. So 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: that's what we track normally. And if it gets to 69 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: a point where UM those bills become law, we go 70 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: ahead and UM bring our lawsuits in court. UM. So 71 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: our state team very much tracks those laws. Our litigation 72 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: team goes to court and and tries to block those laws. 73 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: And that's kind of the the bread and butter of 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: what I do now. When coronavirus and COVID nineteen the 75 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: crisis began, UM, as many of your listeners are out there, UM, 76 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, we began to work from home and we 77 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: started to see basically that first week, UM, several states 78 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: passed UM either through their governors executive orders or through 79 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: the Health Department these notices UM, and basically they were 80 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: very differently worded, you know, across the different states, but 81 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: it said something like, no, you're non essential your elective 82 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: or minor procedures would have to be postponed. Now, I 83 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: want to emphasize that makes total sense, right, Like, if 84 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: you have your nose jobs scheduled, you should probably hold 85 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: off at the time. No PO talks right now, please, 86 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: right exactly, So hold off on that, y'all, like, get 87 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: it later. Um. But then we saw, you know, none 88 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: of these orders had the word abortion in it. Um. 89 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: You know, we saw some that had actually proactive measures 90 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: um that. You know, we saw it from Illinois, New Jersey, Massachusetts, California, Michigan, 91 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: the kind of states roll on saying, but definitely not 92 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: for pregnancy related care, definitely not for reproductive okay, including abortion. 93 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: So we saw some depth of measures. Now, of course, 94 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, your spiky sense kind of tingles when kind 95 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: of words like this, right and um and and this 96 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: is not us being paranoid, because clearly time has shown 97 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: that that's exactly what certain states did. But we started 98 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: tracking um kind of the actions of different governmental actors 99 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: in certain states that are the what I like to 100 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: call market leaders in abortion risch a right, um. So 101 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: it's the typical group of folks um um in these states. 102 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: And we saw the first one out. You know, we 103 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: were tracking several states, um in the south and the Midwest, 104 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: and we saw Ohio's governor on that Saturday after their 105 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: executive order issued kind of publicly go out there and say, well, 106 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: of course abortion is non essential, non time sensitive, and 107 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: everything has to stop because you know, you can stop 108 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: a pregnancy, right, Yeah, that's non time sensitive. We only 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: have a banned for you know, time sensitive bands. But 110 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: it's not time sensitive, isn't that Yeah exactly, It's like 111 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: you can put pregnancy on a shelf. Right. So no, 112 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: that's not what happened. So of course to let your 113 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: due date right exactly just hit the pause. So obviously 114 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: this alarmed a lot of lawyers. So we got together 115 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: with a lot of our litigating friends out there, and 116 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: so we work a lot with Planned Parenthood, a c 117 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: l U and the Warring Project, along with my organization, 118 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: the Center for Reproductive Rights. We decided, okay, we're gonna 119 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: start tracking what's going on here. Since Ohio like clearly 120 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: put us on higher alert, there were certain states that 121 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: we were pretty sure, um, you know, would act similarly 122 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: and follow suits. So you can imagine Texas was high 123 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: up there and you know, and go into what went 124 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: on there. But um so that's kind of what we 125 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: started to see. And then we started seeing kind of 126 00:07:53,680 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: more and more public displays by attorney generals, by governors, um, 127 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: by different health department officials saying, yeah, you know what, 128 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: abortion is going to be banned for this time period, 129 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: and we're going to say that it's not essential. We're 130 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: gonna say it's not time sensitive, and you're gonna have 131 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: to halt um during this time. Now, I want to 132 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: just say that, you know, there's some intuitive appeal to this, 133 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: so I want to kind of make it clear to 134 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: you all and your listeners. Right, Um, pregnancy is not static. 135 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: I think that's a basic principle. And these states are 136 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: saying you can save all sorts of the equipment that 137 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: you need during this pandemic, you know, and you you 138 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: should just put it on hold because it's not essential. 139 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: And I want to just make clear two things. One, 140 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: the states that are saying this are the same offenders 141 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: that have tried to right. I want to just be 142 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: clear that it's it's not like it's very transparent, right, 143 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: it's it's what's been clear. And um, you know, they 144 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: are putting press releases out there saying they're a shutdown 145 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: clinics UM, and they're making their goal as explicit as possible, 146 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: Like the purpose is so clear when they're out there 147 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: just kind of putting it UM out there in the public, 148 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty wild. And then I just want to 149 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: also emphasize the science. Right forget the lawyers, Like, my 150 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: job is to make arguments um UM for our clients. 151 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: But science has weighed in here and immediately, And I 152 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: wonder why I write. You know, the American Medical Association, 153 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: who truthfully had not weighed in an abortion for the 154 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: longest time UM put out there that this is not 155 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: a time for politicians to be UM deciding what is 156 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: time essential and what is not, Like those are for 157 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: the doctors and provided health care professionals to decide, right, 158 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: And that's a basic concept. And the American College of 159 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: Obstitiians and Gynecologists, which is the leading UM medical group 160 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: for UM oh B Juan explicitly said and they came 161 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: out almost immediately when they started seeing this initial trend 162 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: in Ohio and Texas, and they said, look, this is 163 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: not abortion. Is absolutely time sensitive care. It is necessary 164 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: if you are pregnant to go either get O B 165 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: care if it's a wanted pregnancy and absolutely get your 166 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: abortion if it's an unwanted pregnancy, because abortion is essential help. 167 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember the date that that happened, when when 168 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: people first started to notice this was happening. Yeah, it 169 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: was a little bit over a month ago, and I 170 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: think if you kind of google our friendly, yeah, we 171 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: can see that. But it's around I would say we 172 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: started March March sixteenth, that lunch sixteenth, and really kind 173 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: of picking up that week. And so it's been a 174 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: little bit over a month. And of course I mentioned 175 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: two states, Texas and Ohio, but not just them, right, 176 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: not just them. So now we have eight states that 177 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: have been explicit and I just want to emphasize here 178 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: before we if you want to go into detail of 179 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: at those eight states, but those eight are the ones 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: that there are lawsuits on. Right, my colleagues and um 181 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: the litigating groups I mentioned, we're also monitoring and preparing 182 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: legal papers. And several states that have like had these 183 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: stop goes, like there were these public statements and then 184 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: there's a withdrawal and and and so they're way more 185 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: than eight states that kind of thought about this and 186 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: using this opportunity and pandemic to ban abortion care. But 187 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: these eight states, um, like I said, are the worst 188 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: offenders before we move forward, I just wanted to clarify 189 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: when we talk about these states announcing these these bands, um, 190 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: you know stops. Are they're saying that it's temporary? Are 191 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: they putting out are they saying that I'm assuming they 192 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: are for now? But as the same as our stay 193 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: at home orders just keep getting extended. I'm wondering if 194 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: they're saying it's just for a few weeks or what 195 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: have you, and you can wait a few weeks. Is 196 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: that kind of what we're seeing. So in some states, yes, right, 197 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: So they're not you know, copy copy and paste all 198 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: of these states. So in certain states there are Okay, 199 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: it's gonna last till the end of the month. In 200 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: certain states they'll be like, oh if, but it will 201 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: get extended if necessary. Some states actually don't have anything. 202 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: Some states actually say until further notice, which is actually 203 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: even more offensive because it's so clearly right. Um, But 204 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: I just want to be clear that, um, abortion care 205 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: is incredibly safe, but it is more safe if you 206 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: get it earlier. Right, There's no reason to delay healthcare 207 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: in any capacity. And for a state legislator and state 208 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: officials to be saying, you know what, even though like 209 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: this is considered essential healthcare by the a m A 210 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: and all of the leading health and public health officials 211 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: that are out there, yeah, we still want you to stop. 212 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: We still want you to wait a month or wait 213 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: even longer than that, because no one knows how long 214 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: this is going to go, right, And so on the surface, 215 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: this is infuriating, but it's even more so when you 216 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: start to think about who specifically this is affecting. Um, 217 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, the majority of people that require abortions. I 218 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: don't have those statistics, but I know I know that there. 219 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they're people that are single mothers, or 220 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: you already have children and they are low income and 221 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: now they are without work, or they are now in 222 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: charge of the daycare for their existing children, or god, 223 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: even there's people that are sheltering in place in environments 224 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: where they aren't safe to communicate with their partner. Maybe 225 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: they're sheltering with their abuser and they don't have anybody 226 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: they can reach out and talk to about this stuff. Um. 227 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: And and this guy's of saying that this is for 228 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: public health and public safety is so backwards because the 229 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: opposite happens. Yes, people might take matters into their own hands, 230 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: or they're going to try to go out of state 231 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: to find treatment. And a lot of these people are 232 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: in states, in states that are surrounded by other states 233 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: that also have abortion bands or what have you. Yes, 234 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: so this is absolutely true. You've hit upon so many 235 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: burdens that we see from our clients patients all the 236 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: time in normal circument. So exactly what you said. Most 237 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: of the folks who do get abortion care from our 238 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: clients are low income. Most actually the majority of abortion 239 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: clients are already mothers. Um. They are in certain states, 240 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: primarily African American black women, and so there are always 241 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: burdens in order to even access care and states that 242 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: are trying to chip away that right. Um. Ever since 243 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: Roe versus Way and now in this pandemic, when we're 244 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: all under heightened anxiety, when we're all under additional stresses mentally, 245 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: financially and so on, those are completely exacerbated. Um. When 246 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: you have maybe your job has been cut, maybe someone 247 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: in your family's job has been cut, or your child 248 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: care person can't come. Right for those of you who 249 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: have kids, this is very acute, right, Um, And if 250 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: you many people who are already mothers are trying to 251 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: access that care. And then you get to places like Texas, 252 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: which now we've had almost six times of stop and 253 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: go right, we've had patients sitting in the waiting room 254 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: ready that day after having gone through. By the way, 255 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: I want to emphasize all of the other restrictions that 256 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: you already have to go through, like your waiting periods 257 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: and listening to bias counseling and having unnecessary medical test 258 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: performed on you prior to em and getting into that room. 259 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: And then you sit there and all of a sudden, 260 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: the appellate court you know, over in New Orleans decides that, um, 261 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: you can't get your medication abortion today. And we've actually 262 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: our clients have turned away people at that point. And 263 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: the human story of this is that it is incredibly difficult. 264 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: It not like those patients live a block away right 265 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: to get there in the place, to have be able 266 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: to have paid enough to go there, to have traveled there, 267 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: to be able to get back potentially to um an 268 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: abusive partner who might not you know, know what's going on, 269 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: or to your kids, and that was your only opportunity 270 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: or um you know, most recently, there have been roadblocks 271 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: placed in the road between Texas and Louisiana. Yeah, just 272 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: checks to see um because Louisiana had been a hot spot. 273 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: And if you're undocumented or UM, you know, you don't 274 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: want to explain a medical procedure to random highway patrolman. 275 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: It's just adding so much on top of what you 276 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: already have to deal with. And if you get turned away, 277 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: many people will not be able to find their way back. 278 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: And like you said, because pregnancy is not static, your 279 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: options are if it's an unwanted pregnant see to get 280 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: an abortion. Hopefully um there's reproductive healthcare in your state. 281 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: But if not, you're going to travel. And that goes 282 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: absolutely to the emphasis of what you're supposed to be 283 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: doing right now, right like you're supposed to within your community, 284 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: and instead you're leaving your community, taking the drive, going 285 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: into another community, coming back, dropping at a gas station. 286 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: At gas stations, you know, you get your snack and 287 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: it's just and then coming back to your community, which 288 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: is the opposite of what you want to do, So 289 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: it goes contrary to the goals. And then if you 290 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: cannot obtain your abortion, your options are to stay pregnant 291 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: and you know, seek obstetrics care. There's a you know, 292 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: we have obies who say this is the schedule you 293 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: should be on if you're pregnant, and um, I hope 294 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: that people are getting that care. But even if they're not, 295 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: the end result of a pregnancy is to carry to term, 296 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: and it really is forced pregnancy at that point. And 297 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: it's it's like disturbing to me. And I mean, it's 298 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: all very Stopian feelings. It feels like we're living in 299 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: the Handmaids. It does, it does well together everything when 300 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: you say stop and go order six times in Texas, Um, 301 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: you just mean since the start of this the pandemic 302 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: the here. Um, can you tell us a little bit 303 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: what let's talk about Texas specifically, because I know that 304 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: that's been confusing a lot of for people that live 305 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: in Texas, uh, of course, but for all of us. Um. 306 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: I I've seen that you know, they were going to 307 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: have this band and then there was a stop on 308 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: that and then oh no, never mind, it is in place. Um, 309 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: So can you tell us a little bit about where 310 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: we stand right now? And then also in the other 311 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: states that you've been seeing stuff happen yeah, sure, I'll 312 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: start with Texas because that was one of the first 313 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: lawsuits out we saw around that time period. I mentioned 314 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: around March twenty two, UM their executive order issued. So 315 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: Texas issued an executive order. It limited certain types of 316 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: non essential care UM. But of course, again like I 317 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: said in the beginning, there's there was no mention of 318 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: the word abortions, UM, nothing about regrets of health care. 319 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: The next day the attorney general there um issued a 320 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: press release singling out abortion providers and suggesting that any 321 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: abortion would be prohibited under the executive order. So then, 322 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: of course, what do we do. We file our lawsuit 323 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: again it was one of the first states out. UM. 324 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: We filed in federal court in the Western District of Texas, 325 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: and UM immediately after we got a wide what's called 326 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: a temporary restraining order restraining order parts night seem UM. 327 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: You know, regular to to your listeners who are not lawyers, 328 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: but this is basically something where we go into court 329 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: almost on like an emergency basis. It's saying, look, judge, 330 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: we need an answer from you right away to keep 331 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: the status quo. We need to stop whatever is happening, UM, 332 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: and we can do the whole evidence part, and we 333 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: can do the hearing later, but for now, based on 334 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: what we said here and based on these various UM 335 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: statements that we've put together, please stop the state from 336 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: doing what they're doing. So we got a very broad 337 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: crro um that's temporary restrainting work done um and that 338 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: was granted to us on March thirty. UM that allowed 339 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: all abortion care to continue. So between when the a 340 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: g said no abortions and before we got that order, 341 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: there was no abortion care provided in the state. So 342 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: now back we're back, um, you know, an abortion care 343 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: is allowed. And of course what does the state do. 344 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: The very next day they seek an emergency um what's 345 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: called a man Dams petition to the appellate court. So 346 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: the court the next court up, which is in the 347 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: fifth Circuit um, and they say the district court judge 348 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: made such a big mistake here, we really need to 349 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: take it back. And not only that during while you 350 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: think about it, we want you to take it away immediately. 351 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: That's how cruel like it was. It wasn't even like please, 352 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, wait till the complete you get there first 353 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: from the lawyers. So lo and behold, that's what they did. 354 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: So now no abortions can happen in Texas. Anyway, to 355 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: go back and forth on this, we we went through 356 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: UM and we then got medication abortions yes, and then 357 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: procedural abortions closer to the gestational limit in Texas. Yes. 358 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: Then that wasn't even satisfactory to Texas, so they went 359 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: back to the appellate court and said no to medication abortions. 360 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: So it went back. We describe it as almost whiplash, 361 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: and we describe it as like a roller coaster, and 362 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: you can choose your own kind of yeah here. But 363 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: it really was UM wild for our clients and just 364 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: an incredible journey that they've been through over this time 365 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: period when we've all been processing what's been going on 366 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen right, and when you're trying to give 367 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: healthcare to your clients and UM, you know, uh, a 368 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: couple of judges far away get to decide what happens 369 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: to your patients. It's really quite heartbreaking. And the latest 370 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we almost went to the Supreme Court with 371 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: it actually because of the ban on medication abortions. We 372 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: did withdraw when the state finally UM decided that most recently, 373 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: UM as of yesterday, a new executive order has been 374 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: in place, and UM, we have decided to pull our 375 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: application for any relief in terms of immediate relief because 376 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: the state has said now all abortions can continue. Okay 377 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: to report that as of you know your listeners who 378 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: live into Access and surrounding states, UM, abortion care is 379 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: moving forward in all aspects in Texas. What strikes me 380 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: about this story is just how what a ghastly waste 381 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: of their time and energy during this crisis to be 382 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: saying I'm going to spend so much time going back 383 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: and forth about haggling about this thing that that the 384 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: these rights that women deserve to have access to health 385 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: care for and during the height of this pandemic, and yes, 386 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: like you said, when we're dealing with so many other things, 387 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: and how else can they be using that time to 388 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: serve their state? You know, absolutely, And I think personally 389 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: I find that one of the most offensive things here. 390 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: We we ended up right now, let me say, as 391 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: of today, we ended up with these cases these eight states. 392 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: But we tried for the longest time and we're continuing 393 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: to try for the longest time not to bring these lawsuits. Right, Yeah, 394 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: of course, it's not what I would like to be 395 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: doing right now. I hope that these health departments spend 396 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: time and money on their citizens of their states and 397 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: trying to flatten the curve in their respective states. We 398 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: should not be having litigation against the medical advice of 399 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: all of these organizations, against trying to prevent people from 400 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: accessing care, like basically pushing people away from the state 401 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: and creating like a situation where it's just just impossible. 402 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: And so I am so glad that people in Texas 403 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: can now access care. And I'm so glad that every 404 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: single district court judge, and I want to really emphasize 405 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: that the law at least in the lower courts held strong. 406 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: Every single district court judge said, amazing, but this is 407 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: too far, including many who were actually appointed by President Trump. 408 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: So it wasn't being along political ideologies. Um. Are there 409 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: any states that still um, it's still the threat that 410 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: they might take away? Yes, okay, so UM the states 411 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: that I'll just do them so and in case people 412 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: live in them, Um, Alabama, Arkansas, Iowa, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, 413 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: in Indiana, in Texas are the states that are currently 414 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: having some form of litigation. Are had UM. In Oklahoma, 415 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: as of today, only medication abortions are allowed. UM. This 416 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: was after we won broad relief at a preliminary injunction 417 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: hearing and then immediately, similar to what Texas did, the 418 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: state went to ask to stay that decision. So UM, 419 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: that has all been going on. There is a new 420 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: order in Oklahoma that makes it incredibly difficult because they 421 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: require COVID nineteen testing of the patients and as you 422 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: guys know, I don't know if you all have been tested, 423 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: but I can't seem to figure out exactly, so that 424 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: that's really been UM a substantive roadblock. So right now 425 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: medication abortions are being provided there UM. And then in Arkansas, UM, 426 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: that's another UM state where only medication abortions are being 427 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: provided as of today. But these lawsuits are moving so quickly, 428 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: so honestly, tomorrow it could be in a a difference. Yeah, 429 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: whenever you guys, when you guys hear this, be sure 430 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: to double check and see where where things stand currently 431 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: in the in these states together, everything down down. I 432 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: wanna go back and talk a little bit about June 433 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: medical services versus Rousso I believe you mentioned that up top, UM, 434 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: but that was the case that you were trying, and 435 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: like I was going to the Supreme Court before all 436 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: of this hit. Am I correct? Here? That is correct 437 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: again and it was like so long ago. But yeah, 438 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: from what I understand it's involves. It involves a Louisiana 439 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: law Act six twenty UM that would leave the state 440 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: with just one doctor to provide abortions for approximately one 441 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: million women. Can you tell us a little bit more 442 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, absolutely, so that was heard by the 443 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: Supreme Court on March fourth. And again, with all of 444 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: these cases, there's a long back story, so I'll try 445 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: to give a short succomplice. Um. This admitting privileges law 446 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: again was similar to what the states are saying now 447 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: during COVID nineteen. Right, it's for public health and safety, um, 448 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: Except that all of the medical organizations disagreed and said, 449 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: actually doesn't make sense for a physician to have admitting 450 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: privileges within thirty miles of where they provide admitting privileges 451 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: are when uh So a doctor can only provide an 452 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: abortion if they have admitting privileges uh to main hospital 453 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: in a district. But in a lot of these states, 454 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: doctors that provide abortions are not given admitting privileges. That's 455 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: a correct crazy catch twenty two, right. So that's it's 456 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: something that like a big hospital um would provide to 457 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: a doctor who doesn't have an affiliation necessarily with the 458 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: hospital and you say, okay, you you, and it's it's 459 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: basically a contract that says, you know, you're gonna admit 460 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: X amount of people and you're gonna have these you know, 461 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: whatever kind of relationships that you have with the physician. 462 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: And the problem with that is, you know, abortion care 463 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: is exceedingly safe and oftentimes even if the hospital is 464 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: willing to give a provider of abortion care admitting privileges, 465 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: they're not going to meet the minimum requirement. Right. You know, 466 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: hospitals are business and they're gonna want X amount of 467 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: people admitted and you just don't have that. So actually, 468 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: in the Louisiana case, UM, in our Supreme Court case, 469 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: the only physician who was who would be able to 470 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: get admitting privileges would be able to do so because 471 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: they had their own O. B. G. White On practice 472 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: so efort and apart from the abortion care practice right. So, 473 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: just to backtrack and how Louisiana decided that this law 474 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: was going to go all the way up years ago 475 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: when we first started seeing these laws in two thousand 476 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: tens and on, we saw the law appear in several states, 477 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: including in Louisiana and Texas. Again several market leaders UM 478 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: and what we saw was UM Texas had UM admitting 479 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: privileges law as well as a requirement that all abortion 480 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: carapy provided in a surgical center. UM. That case went 481 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: all the way up to the Supreme Court and that 482 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: case was called Home and Sell versus Hellerstead. The Center 483 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: represented the Texas providers in that case, and we won 484 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: in a five four decision. UM that explicitly said that 485 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: when you think about these abortion restrictions, you need to 486 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: weigh the real benefits. So evidence based real benefits, not 487 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: just what a legislature says or seems to say about 488 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: health and safety, but what real evidence shows against the burdens, 489 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: all the things that you and I talked about UM 490 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: with what people, real people go through to access their 491 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: abortion care. So it really was thinking about it almost 492 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: like a cost benefit analysis. You weigh the scale and 493 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: if it tips where the burdens are greater than the 494 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: law is unconstitutional. So the Supreme Court already weighed in 495 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: on admitting privileges in two thousands six very very recently, 496 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: very recently, and the Supreme Court is not in the 497 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: business of looking at cases, you know, three years down 498 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: the line. But in two thousands sixteen they said Texas 499 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: is admitting privileges. Law is unconstitutional bar none, and all 500 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: of the states thereafter that had admitting privileges just started saying, look, 501 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: we we see the writing on the wall. We're going 502 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: to either withdraw those laws or enter into settlements. So 503 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: right after Home and Tealth, you saw a flurry of 504 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: states say, okay, we got it. We got the mandate 505 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: from the Supreme Court. It's the law of the land 506 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: right and it's weighed in period. One state held out 507 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: is Louisiana. They took it all the way and they said, no, no, 508 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: we think ours is different, um, even though it was 509 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: modeled on the Texas law itself. Um. And they we 510 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: had a trial, the trial judge had extensive fact finding, 511 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: and we won at the trial level. Then the state 512 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: appealed to that Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and they 513 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: won um there, and the court the Good Circuit there 514 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: actually reweighed a lot of the evidence, which is not 515 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: something that UM an appellate court is supposed to do. 516 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: So that's really the job of the first court, the 517 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: district court. It's not supposed to be something that the 518 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: next court does, which is supposed to just look at 519 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: the saws application. Like because when you're at a trial, 520 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: you can look at that witnesses face and know how 521 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: credible or you know, or make a determination of how 522 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: credible that person is. Right, as a district court judge, 523 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: you don't get that on the appellate level. You just 524 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: get a cold transcript and you just read it. And 525 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: that's something. But that's why you the pellet court applies laws, 526 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: not um you know, read does the facts. But in 527 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: our case, the fifth Circuit panel did do that. They 528 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: sided with Louisiana, and we asked the Supreme Court. UM, 529 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 1: the center of representing our clients to medical services asked 530 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to just what's called summarily reverse. So 531 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: just don't even think about it, right, obvious, No, it's 532 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: just like why you know, the Supreme Court is busy, 533 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: there's so many other huge topics to consider. You don't 534 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: go back on the decision that you made three like 535 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: it is so simple. Obviously, the Pellet Court messed up here. 536 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: All you to say is reverse, they decided not to 537 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: do that, and um, the next thing that we asked 538 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: them to do was to take the case. And I 539 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: want to just for those folks who have followed this extensively, 540 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: and and and I've heard this question a lot asked, 541 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: which is like, oh, should we be you know, worried 542 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: when the Supreme Court takes up an abortion case? Right? 543 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: Like should we should that? Soam the alarms? And and 544 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: I want to say, um, you know, obviously we're looking 545 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: at a different composition and I don't know the outcome 546 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: of the case will be. But in this case, in 547 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: June Medical, we did ask Scotus to take it because 548 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: we the the other alternative if if the Supreme Court 549 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: didn't weigh in, was that the law would go into effect, right, 550 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: and then we would have that landscape that we were 551 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: talking about. So frustrating. It's so frustrating that you have 552 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: such a recent precedent set and here we are needing 553 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: to bring it back to the Supreme Court already and 554 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: I mean if ever, but yeah, already, And yes, now 555 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: we have a completely new makeup of the Supreme Court. 556 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: It's terrifying. So I believe that this is the first 557 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: real challenge to Roe v. Wade that we're seeing on 558 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: this under this new makeup. Correct, this is the first 559 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: reproductive rights case, abortion case that's before this new set 560 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: of justices. I want to say that if the rule 561 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: of law holds, and it's really important right law is 562 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: built on the one before it, Um and there can 563 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: be different interpretations, but when the law is exactly the same, 564 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: and I really emphasized, you know it was modeled after 565 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: the Texas law, we should not have been in this position. 566 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: But when we find ourselves there, no matter what President Um, 567 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, appointed that justice, the law should be in 568 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: the same if our role of law holds. So I 569 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: want folks to know that whither you know, you think 570 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: about abortion at all, no matter which side of the 571 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: spectrum you might fall on on the abortion debate, that 572 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: it is really integral that the Court holds this decision 573 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: because if this falls right in this area, it can 574 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: be used to chip away a precedent in a lot 575 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: of other types of scenarios, and I think that's really 576 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: quite dangerous for me as a lawyer who you know, 577 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: believes that the Supreme Court will uphold the role of 578 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: law right as they should. Yeah. And if it wasn't 579 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: about abortion, I really believe this would have been like nothing, 580 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: nothing case. So where does that stand now? I mean 581 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: we're all sheltering in place. I mean, how does your 582 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: work even continue right now? I know that you're very busy, 583 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: are you guys skyping in with people in in the 584 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: chambers or at their homes and their home offices. Yeah, 585 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: so it's been interesting, right, So the courts have adjusted. Um. 586 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: So for example, not that we are before the Supreme 587 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: Court again, but there was a little bit of a 588 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: hiatus that the court took and then now they are 589 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: resuming telephonically. Um. So very similarly. Um, you know a 590 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: lot of our work is done on our computers drafting papers. 591 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: But when we are in quote unquote in court, um, 592 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: we will do it through telephonic conferences or you know, 593 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: some judges have asked for zoom Okay, so they are 594 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: technologically advanced, which is very cool. Um. And so you 595 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: know you wear your suit. I was gonna say, do 596 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: you get dressed up? Do you wear a nice shirt 597 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: in your pajama bottom? Right? Exactly? Got your stretchy yoga 598 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: pants going on exactly right. That's how we're kind of 599 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: making do UM. And you know it's been interesting, UM 600 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: I am. I have to say kudos to the state governments, UM, 601 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 1: and and judges out there who are making it work 602 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: and adjusting to these hard times. UM. You know, obviously 603 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: there are pressures not only with all of the COVID 604 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: nineteen abortion cases, but a lot of criminal cases from 605 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: justice is coming up a lot of very press saying 606 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: issues in this time. So UM, they are really UM 607 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: adjusting and making UM. It's so that there's no interruption 608 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: in justice. That's something. UM. Are there any other things 609 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: that you are working on that are on your radar 610 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: that we should be aware of? Yeah, you know, so 611 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: I don't want the picture to be bleak, right. Like 612 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: I mentioned, even in the COVID crisis, we had some 613 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: states actively protect healthcare and actively protect abortion care. So UM, 614 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: there's another side of our practice that involves proactive work. 615 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: So this is actually where we are protecting access or 616 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: increasing access. And UM, I just want to give a 617 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: shout out to UM the Commonwealth of Virginia. The legislature 618 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: passed a bill and the governor just signed into law 619 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: a reproductive health UM Act that would take away, um, 620 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: several abortion restrictions, including an unnecessary waiting period. So now um, 621 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: you know, starting as as soon as July one, you 622 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: can just get your abortion care the day of instead 623 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: of these unnecessary barriers, taking away the need for patients 624 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: to read unnecessary literature that the state has has produced, 625 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: UM that was largely medically inaccurate. UM allowing advanced practice 626 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: clinicians to provide care, and also UM lifting up um 627 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: what's called a TRAP law, targeted regulation of abortion providers, 628 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: so making it really much more accessible for people to 629 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: access care. And I just want to say that because 630 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: that's just one example of the work that advocates as 631 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: well as the Center have been doing too. UM looking 632 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: at the big picture of the United States, right, Like 633 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: Virginia is one state where it kind of is is 634 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: the northern most southern state and the southernmost northern state, right, 635 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: and so it holds a place where when you look 636 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: around the picture, sure, it's it's great to shore up 637 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: access in that state. So UM the pictures now bleak. 638 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: We're still working on many states and UM working with 639 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: legislators and UM, you know, fighting battles in court to 640 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: preserve access and also protect acts us. I love that. 641 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm very grateful to hear in positive news like that, 642 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: especially in this bleak land otherwise bleak landscape across the board. Um, 643 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: that's really incredible to hear. And yeah, I mean it. Uh, 644 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: it's great for that state, but also it sets a 645 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: benchmark for other states. It starts to change the temperature 646 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: in general in the South. UM. And yeah, I love that. 647 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: Are there things that our listeners can be doing to 648 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: support you guys, to support these efforts if they live 649 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: in states where it is really tricky to have access 650 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: to abortions? Are the things that we can do for 651 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: our fellow citizens to take action into our own hands? Yeah? Absolutely. 652 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: I would just you know, one thing is to just 653 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: be knowledgeable, right, to focus on facts. I think all 654 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: across the board, you know, we your listeners, myself, we 655 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: should all focus on facts and legitimate authorities. UM. And 656 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: I also would say, really provide if you have any 657 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: financial capabilities to abortion funds right now, especially in the 658 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,959 Speaker 1: states that I've mentioned, um, and especially in places where 659 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: there are lower access, because right now they are taking 660 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: up so much work in you know, providing um, you know, 661 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: the ability for people to be able to either leave 662 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: the state or even access within the state. UM. So 663 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: I just want to give a shout out to UM. 664 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: If you don't know UH an abortion fund and one 665 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: of those, do look it up on the National Network 666 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,879 Speaker 1: of Abortion Funds and they have a great website called 667 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: Abortion Funds dot org and hop in your state and 668 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: you can figure out a whole list of places to 669 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 1: give to. And you don't really even have to have 670 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: that much, right like, honestly, a small donation makes a 671 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: huge difference, and they have really cool swag. Okay, say, 672 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: you know, I would be remiss if I don't give 673 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 1: a shout out to my own organization, and we are, 674 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: you know, keeping up the fight both UM what you've 675 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,720 Speaker 1: heard today, but globally across the entire country and the world, 676 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: So UM Center for Reproductive Rights. You can find us 677 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: online as well. Awesome. Thank you so much, Jenny. This 678 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: has been incredibly informative. I know you're incredibly busy, so 679 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: we really really appreciate your time, and I know our 680 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: listeners do as well. Thank you so much for having 681 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: me UM, and we will be following all of these 682 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: things closely absolutely, And I just want to say your 683 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: podcast probably is so prescient, and it has the best title. 684 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: Everyone is feeling right now. Well, now it's my turn 685 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: to say thank you phrase I so desperately desire. That 686 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: was Robert's genius. Stroke of genius. Although sometimes I wonder 687 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: if we created this, we like this pandemic is our fault. Sorry, 688 00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: I take full responsibility. We all blame you, Robert Well, 689 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: Hargel dargel boog boog. That was a conversation, wasn't It 690 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: was like the new catchphrase. Yeah, yeah, catchy, perfect, make 691 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: a T shirt. I just want to say one more 692 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: and I'll just say one more time. Thanks to Jenny 693 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: for joining us for that interesting conversation. I felt the 694 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: gambit of emotions anger, frustration, relief, gratitude, and inspired. And 695 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: I hope you guys feel those emotions. You were going 696 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: to end on frustration. I felt anger, frustration. That's those 697 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: are the ones. Those are the only two emotions this year. Yeah. Well, 698 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,240 Speaker 1: all I have to say is thank you to our guests, 699 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: and of course a classic worst your ever hageld Blue 700 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: Blue to all of you back at home. You can 701 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: follow us at Where's your Pod on Twitter and Instagram. 702 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: You can follow Katie at Katie Stoole. You can follow 703 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: Cody at doctor Mr Cody. You can follow Robert at 704 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: I Right okay, Oh. You can follow the Center for 705 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: Reproductive Rights on Twitter at repro writes in perfect everybody, 706 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: have a great rest of your quarantine day was everything 707 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: everything so again. I tried Dan. Worst Year Ever is 708 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 709 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 710 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.