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Speaker 1: This podcast discusses sexual assault. Please take care while listening.

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Speaker 2: Step charged and consent to this recorded call Press one.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for using securist.

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Speaker 2: You may start the conversation now, Hey.

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Speaker 4: How are you?

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Speaker 5: I'm good? How are you?

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Speaker 4: I'm making it good.

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Speaker 5: It's been so long since he's so oh gosh, but forever.

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Speaker 1: That was Spencer heron the real Spencer heron on the

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Speaker 1: phone from President. I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal,

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Speaker 1: Episode eight. Thank you for your time. Spencer was apprehensive

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Speaker 1: about going on the record with Jennifer, citing concern for

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Speaker 1: his family and publicity.

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Speaker 6: However, he did agree.

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Speaker 1: To speak with Jennifer and spoke on a recorded line.

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Speaker 1: They spoke for nearly an hour after not having talked

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Speaker 1: to each other for more than two years. This was

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Speaker 1: an important conversation for jen for her personally, but also

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Speaker 1: to hear how we've used the situation four years later,

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Speaker 1: and there was some curiosity. Has his incarceration changed his

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Speaker 1: perspective and what does he plan to do when he's released.

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Speaker 1: Here are excerpts from their call.

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to see if he's be willing to

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Speaker 5: answers some questions.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's the realization. Okay, since I know you're gonna

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Speaker 4: obviously you're going through with.

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Speaker 1: It, and he says it he is referring to this project,

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Speaker 1: the podcast what you're listening to right now.

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Speaker 4: The realization of not being over for me. And it's

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Speaker 4: hard enough trying to imagine the difficulties I'm going to

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Speaker 4: face anyway, and then this seems just like another layer

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Speaker 4: of it, and that it freaked me out.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, Spencer is concerned that making more people aware of

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Speaker 1: his story will make post prison life more difficult for him.

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Speaker 4: But I can't obviously keep you from doing what you

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Speaker 4: need to do to feel better for yourself.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, I keep getting back to this, but

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Speaker 5: I'm just so curious. Is to like what you think

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Speaker 5: about that life you were living.

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Speaker 4: The main thing I can say is that it had

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Speaker 4: gotten so out of control that it was, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to say living a life of its own, because

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Speaker 4: obviously I was in control of it, but it had

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Speaker 4: taken on the dominance in my life that I didn't

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Speaker 4: see coming. You know, even with the warnings that I had,

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Speaker 4: it obviously wasn't enough to stop everything.

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Speaker 1: Warnings like Jennifer's friend's husband calling him Spencer knew he

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Speaker 1: could tell Jen at any time.

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Speaker 5: Right, But you say didn't see coming, but like it

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Speaker 5: was happening before we got married.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was happening all those years before he got married.

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Speaker 5: So knowing that you were like this, why get married?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's the part that's going to be difficult for

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Speaker 4: you to understand or believe. I didn't intended to keep going,

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Speaker 4: but you never stop.

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Speaker 5: Correct, So at what point did you intend for it

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Speaker 5: not to continue?

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Speaker 4: Oh, from the day that we got back together.

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Speaker 5: Okay, But knowing it was continuing and that you didn't stop,

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Speaker 5: why did you get married?

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Speaker 4: The intentions were always on the positive side, but my

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Speaker 4: actions would went over those intentions. And the main thing

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Speaker 4: is I can explain is the ease of the way

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Speaker 4: I found myself in those situations. I'm trying to use

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Speaker 4: an analogy. I've been to three different grocery stores. Even

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Speaker 4: though you don't want to go shop there anymore, it's

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Speaker 4: easier to go to those stores. You've already been to

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Speaker 4: those stores. You're not looking for another store to go to,

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Speaker 4: it's just that store still open. What I'm just trying

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Speaker 4: to say is that you know, once, once you had

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Speaker 4: been fooling around for so long. It's not like you

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Speaker 4: got to figure out how am I going to fool arount.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how all those women would feel about

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Speaker 1: the grocery store analogy. A few years earlier, in his

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Speaker 1: letters like the ones we heard in episode seven, Spencer

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Speaker 1: seemed to deny culpability by saying women just made themselves

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Speaker 1: available to him. Had time changed the story?

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Speaker 5: In one of the letters that you wrote me, and

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Speaker 5: you said that you never thought after Do you still

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Speaker 5: feel that way?

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Speaker 4: Well? Yes, in this I have to answer this in

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Speaker 4: two ways. Yes, meaning that I was never on a

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Speaker 4: long half that I chose to seek it out. It's

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Speaker 4: just an opportunity with percent itself, and then before I

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Speaker 4: knew it, I was pursuing it. It's probably not an

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Speaker 4: answer that it makes much sense.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't just about editing with you. I have

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Speaker 5: seen so much correspondence that I do feel like you

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Speaker 5: thought after it.

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Speaker 1: Thought after might include come by the wine bar. I'm

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Speaker 1: single for the next few days.

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Speaker 4: I understand that, and I would never argue that that's

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Speaker 4: how you saw it. And I'm sure that no matter

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Speaker 4: how much we talk, there's gonna be some things that

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Speaker 4: won't make sense. They don't make sense to me either,

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Speaker 4: and I was the one involved in As much as

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Speaker 4: I want to make it better, no, there's gonna be

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Speaker 4: a lot of things that aren't, and they're what I say.

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Speaker 4: It's not gonna make it better.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, nothing will ever make it better. Not

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Speaker 5: after everything I've read and seen and the amount I'll

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Speaker 5: never understand it. I am baffled at how you managed

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Speaker 5: so many different people at the same time, like a year,

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Speaker 5: two years, three year long affairs, multiple at a time.

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Speaker 5: When you look back, do you think you might have

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Speaker 5: a problem? And I'm not being facetious.

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Speaker 4: Well, my opinion doesn't matter until I get out there.

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Speaker 4: You can say if you don't think you ever found

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Speaker 4: an alcohol, if you never have alcohol around you. I'm

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Speaker 4: dealing with guys who've been in for decades. To the

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Speaker 4: guys that's just come in a year. You know, most

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Speaker 4: of the fact and the Princess are females, and they're

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Speaker 4: they're not trying to with it, you know. I mean

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Speaker 4: to be me, I mean, I need to paint a

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Speaker 4: picture for you, right, and these guys will go crazy.

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Speaker 4: Guys in in the county jail were going crazy and

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Speaker 4: masturbating publicly masturbating that still happens in years now, that's

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Speaker 4: a problem. Maybe it's a different problems, but it's definitely

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Speaker 4: what I don't have.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I don't I don't care. The last time we talked,

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Speaker 5: I think you felt as if you were fine and cured,

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Speaker 5: and it has gone away.

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Speaker 4: I still feel that way, but that's only how I feel.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. No one knows what anything's gonna be tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: But the thing is, I guess you and I think

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Speaker 5: of your situation differently because I look at what you

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Speaker 5: were doing our entire marriage, from before and the entire

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Speaker 5: every single day of our marriage, you look me in

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Speaker 5: the eye and lied to me. There are probably days,

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Speaker 5: and I hope to God not many, where you ended

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Speaker 5: up having to sleep with me and another woman on

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Speaker 5: the same day. You've brought women into our home.

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Speaker 4: Your sense of betrayal is not a sense at all.

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Speaker 4: It is a very real thing, and I would expect

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Speaker 4: you to deal with it no differently. Any any sane

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Speaker 4: person would deal with ith the way you're dealing with it,

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Speaker 4: which is to be dumbfounded and to be angry and

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Speaker 4: everything else that you felt. Now I'm never going to

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Speaker 4: get words in your mouth or emotions in your personality.

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Speaker 4: But all those things make sense that I couldn't skirt

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Speaker 4: around that if I wanted to. Why would I want to?

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Speaker 5: But do you not see an is you that might

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Speaker 5: need some work? You got to the point where you

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Speaker 5: were breaking the law, not to mention the disgustingness of it.

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Speaker 5: Do you ever think about the victim?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, I'm sure That's why I'm still here.

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Speaker 1: No immediate expression of remorse. Rather, he thinks of the

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Speaker 1: victim's impact on his parole.

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Speaker 4: I'm not tooting my own horn. I just look at

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Speaker 4: the facts. Anybody makes parole as somebody like.

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Speaker 5: Me, I just don't know what to say. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I guess good for her.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there are guys in't here that have been back three,

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Speaker 4: four or five six times and to get out on

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Speaker 4: parole every time. And I'm not bitter about that. I

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Speaker 4: don't even think about the TC anymore. I don't think

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Speaker 4: about parole anymore. Do the I do the next thing

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Speaker 4: I'm supposed to do that hour, I do the next

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Speaker 4: right thing every hour, and then the next thing after that,

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Speaker 4: and then I go sleep and I can do it

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Speaker 4: all over again.

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Speaker 5: Are you surprised that she would do that.

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Speaker 4: I'm surprised at the system more than I'm surprised to her.

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Speaker 4: I'm surprised that the system gives false hope and tells

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Speaker 4: you something's going to happen and then takes it back.

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Speaker 4: That's that's what I say.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that they couldn't know that she was going to

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Speaker 5: come forward.

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Speaker 4: Well, we don't know. We just were assuming, and that's

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Speaker 4: a really good assumption, you know, I about one hundred

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Speaker 4: bucks on it.

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Speaker 1: Actually we do know, and in an earlier episode, we learned

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Speaker 1: that the victim wrote and delivered a letter to the

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Speaker 1: parole board herself.

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Speaker 4: So no, I'm not surprised. I'm sure was her failing

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Speaker 4: when it was her?

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Speaker 5: Why do you think that she's an adult zone?

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Speaker 4: That doesn't matter. That's all this, you know, interesting drama

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Speaker 4: for the story. What matters is that she is hopefully

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Speaker 4: moving on. And as much as I wish I could

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Speaker 4: take it back, I can't take it back. So all

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Speaker 4: I can do is hope, pray for everybody involved.

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Speaker 5: To be.

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Speaker 4: Okay and move on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's taking a long long time.

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Speaker 1: Jen was curious about the letter, so she put in

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Speaker 1: a call to the victim and asked if she would

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Speaker 1: be willing to share it with the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when he was first supposed to be pulled?

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Speaker 3: It was last year? It was I think either around

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Speaker 3: September or October.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of twenty one. Right, So when you found this out,

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Speaker 2: you decided to write this letter? Do you mind reading it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And I was thinking of actually just saying my

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Speaker 3: first name only because this podcast has gotten so much attention,

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Speaker 3: and I thought maybe this could be an example for

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Speaker 3: other people or kids to not be afraid.

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Speaker 5: What you did was so brave and incredible.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously up to you.

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Speaker 3: I just thought it's one thing to say, oh, the victim.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's so hard for me, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: so protective of you and your identity, but like calling

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Speaker 2: you the victim, you know, it's just I get it, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but you know you're just so much more than that

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. So I wrote to whom it made concerns.

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Speaker 1: First.

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Speaker 3: I would like to say that I don't know what

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Speaker 3: to say other than I am still in my process

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Speaker 3: of healing from what Spencer Heron did to me, starting

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Speaker 3: from when I was fifteen up until the very early

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Speaker 3: stages of my adult life. At first, when I received

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Speaker 3: the letter with news of him being up for parole,

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to respond or say anything, because all

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Speaker 3: I would like to do is move on with my life. However,

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Speaker 3: I realized then that is exactly what he would want.

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Speaker 3: It would have been a disservice to myself and all

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Speaker 3: the young girls out there had I not come forward

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Speaker 3: in the first place, And even now, years later, I

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Speaker 3: am responding to this because I believe he should not

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Speaker 3: be granted parole. People like Spencer Heron, who prey on

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Speaker 3: the innocence and trust of adolescence, do not wake up

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Speaker 3: one day and decide to sexually assault these children. People

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Speaker 3: like him take the time to select their victims and

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Speaker 3: begin the grooming process, just as he did with me.

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Speaker 3: This takes strategy, time, and effort on their part. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't the first victim, and I will not be the

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Speaker 3: last if he is released. Predators such as Spencer Heron

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Speaker 3: cannot control their perversions, nor are they willing to. This

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Speaker 3: ends up hurting not only the victims but their families

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Speaker 3: as well, just like he did to mine. I know

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Speaker 3: a side of him that not many do, and I

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Speaker 3: still live with those images in my mind every day.

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Speaker 3: He is cool, calculated, manipulative, deceitful, and violent. He has

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Speaker 3: no regard for who he hurts, and I am afraid

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Speaker 3: that there will be more victims if granted prole. I'm

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Speaker 3: also afraid for myself. I hope this letter will be

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Speaker 3: taken into consideration. Thank you for taking the time to

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Speaker 3: read this, sincerely.

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Speaker 1: Rachel, such a powerful letter to the parole board and

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, bravely putting her anonymity behind her, claiming

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Speaker 1: her strength because she's more than a victim.

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Speaker 6: She's Rachel.

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Speaker 1: Whether you would get paroled or not, Spencer would eventually

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Speaker 1: be released, Jen wanted to know was he prepared.

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Speaker 5: If you want to be successful, don't you think you

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Speaker 5: should think about getting some help.

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Speaker 4: I am, but I can't say that I'm going to

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Speaker 4: until I know what I'm going to be up against

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Speaker 4: when I get out.

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Speaker 5: For do you guys have therapy and stuff in prison?

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Speaker 4: Nothing even close to anything you might even possibly imagine.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's why I was wondering what your plan is

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Speaker 5: for after you get out.

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Speaker 4: My first plan and only real plan, is to make

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Speaker 4: sure I'm successful on premation of parole, because it's not

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Speaker 4: outlanded right back here.

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Speaker 5: So since we last, like, have you thought more about

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Speaker 5: what kind of life you had been leading?

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Speaker 4: Of course, I mean that's that's what you do when

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Speaker 4: you're when you have all this time and year, you

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Speaker 4: can reflect on everything and then hopefully, if you're a

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Speaker 4: person wants to change, then you figure out how to

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Speaker 4: do it. How how do you change it to the

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Speaker 4: best of your ability really spent. Yeah, maybe that's the

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Speaker 4: part that you don't understand because you've never been to prison,

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Speaker 4: because let me tell you, no same person would ever

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Speaker 4: come back here. Ever, I've earned my time, I've done it. Well,

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Speaker 4: I haven't finished it yet, but I will have done it.

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Speaker 4: To your point about how I'm going to deal with things,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to look at some of my square in

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Speaker 4: the eye and go, I've done, but I was too

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Speaker 4: what I had to do, And if you aren't cool

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Speaker 4: with that, then we just won't have to We don't

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Speaker 4: have to be cool. And I know that's going to

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Speaker 4: be the majority of my want I say, majority of

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Speaker 4: my past contacts, and I'm going to use the word friends.

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Speaker 1: He had done what he was told he had to do,

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Speaker 1: a clean slate, that's what he was after. However, he'll

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Speaker 1: still serve fifteen years probation. He will be registered as

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Speaker 1: a sex offender.

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Speaker 4: I mean almost everyone, as you know, the people who

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Speaker 4: have come out to support me, outside of one or

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Speaker 4: two people have been all surprised. So I've seen the

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Speaker 4: miracle and how God has used people to get me

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Speaker 4: through this. I've witnessed it, I've experienced it, and I

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Speaker 4: know it's going to be the same on the out there.

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Speaker 4: I don't have to have as many friends as I

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Speaker 4: had before. What I'm saying is I understand, and we'll

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Speaker 4: all understand why people are gonna forever pull back.

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Speaker 5: They're going to probably a full back spence because of

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Speaker 5: what you did.

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Speaker 4: I'm just I'm making the point that it's it's the

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Speaker 4: betrayal it hurts sometimes more than the action. I'm not

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Speaker 4: opposed to help. I'm not opposed to any of that

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff. I'm not saying I don't need it.

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Speaker 4: What I'm saying is I have to I have to

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Speaker 4: take one thing at a time, and the first thing

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Speaker 4: you have to take control of is making sure I'll

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Speaker 4: ever get in this trouble yet.

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Speaker 5: But how do you do that?

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Speaker 4: You stay under the radar.

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Speaker 5: You couldn't stay under the radar before. You've got lucky

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Speaker 5: that you got away with it for so long.

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Speaker 4: I know you, I know you're being facetious when you

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Speaker 4: say that.

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Speaker 5: What do you mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, I wasn't lucky you got away with it. I

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Speaker 4: was unlucky that I was getting away with it. It's

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Speaker 4: been better for the all gone to ship the first time.

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Speaker 4: That's the truth.

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Speaker 1: Was he saying that if he had just gotten caught

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Speaker 1: having a consensual affair, he wouldn't have committed sexual assault

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Speaker 1: on a teenager.

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Speaker 2: You have one minute left.

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Speaker 1: The call ended. It was polite, Kurt, thank you, thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 6: So let me get this straight.

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Speaker 1: You hadn't talked to him, You hadn't heard his voice

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Speaker 1: in what was it two years?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, when he got convicted January twenty nineteen, I cut

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Speaker 6: off all communication with him. I was done. You know,

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Speaker 6: he was sent to prison and I was done. I

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Speaker 6: didn't feel like I needed to talk to him anymore.

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Speaker 6: It wasn't doing me any good. And then when we

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Speaker 6: started this podcast, you know, I wanted to talk with him.

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Speaker 1: Were you nervous about talking with him?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 1: What were you feeling when you had to answer that

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Speaker 1: phone call? Because he had to call you.

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Speaker 6: Well, I see the call coming in and it says

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Speaker 6: Wilcox State Prison, and my stomach just turns and I

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Speaker 6: get so nervous. And part of it was I knew

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Speaker 6: when I answered that he was going to be all

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Speaker 6: happy and excited to hear from me and everything, and

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Speaker 6: that just it doesn't sit well with me, Like does

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Speaker 6: he not understand? Yeah, he's just I guess it's denial.

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Speaker 1: Do you recognize the person on the phone on the

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Speaker 1: other side.

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Speaker 6: Yes, definitely. He sounds the same, talks the same, tries

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Speaker 6: to spin everything into a positive almost. And the thing is,

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Speaker 6: I'm sure you notice this. He avoids answering any questions.

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Speaker 1: And how did you feel after the call?

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Speaker 6: I got off the phone with him and realized that

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Speaker 6: I never need to speak to him again.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 6: I just feel like I can wash my hands of it,

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Speaker 6: partly because I'm never going to get the answers. He's

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Speaker 6: not capable and it doesn't matter. It's not my problem,

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Speaker 6: it's his problem. I feel like I have put the

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Speaker 6: final piece in a box that I can pack up,

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Speaker 6: tape up, and put away in the attic.

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Speaker 1: We haven't even talked about this yet, but you reached

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Speaker 1: out about an update on his parole.

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Speaker 6: Well, I have a friend that has been so amazing

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Speaker 6: the last four years at always searching to see if

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Speaker 6: dates have changed for parole or whatever. And so I

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00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 6: woke up when warning to a text just the other

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Speaker 6: day that said he's getting released June twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: So within the next three weeks he's going.

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Speaker 5: To be out.

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Speaker 6: Oh, he could be out tomorrow, right, Andrea, do you

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00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 6: remember last summer when we talked on the phone and

365
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Speaker 6: I was telling you about how Spence was supposed to

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Speaker 6: get paroled like in October.

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Speaker 1: You were in the car, like hysterically crying.

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Speaker 6: Yes, And I was really scared. So then when the

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Speaker 6: parole got revoked because the victim wrote the letter, you know,

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Speaker 6: I thought he was going to be in there until

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Speaker 6: June twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: How does June twenty twenty two differ from June twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one.

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Speaker 6: I think I've just done a lot more work on

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Speaker 6: understanding this mess that I was in in this relationship,

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Speaker 6: and I've healed a lot. And I have to say

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00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 6: the first time that we were in the studio together,

378
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 6: I was really angry. I mean it was still raw

379
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 6: and I was angry at the women, and you looked

380
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 6: at me and you said, Jennifer, you're really angry at

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Speaker 6: these women, and I think you need to take a

382
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Speaker 6: look at that. I was pissed. I was like, what

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Speaker 6: is she talking about? But I thank you for that

384
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 6: because I got there and you seeing that from the beginning,

385
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Speaker 6: and then seeing it when I was able to talk

386
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Speaker 6: with some of these women and the compassion that was there,

387
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Speaker 6: I just I felt it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I said like, I will not do this

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Speaker 1: project with you if it's coming from a place of anger.

390
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: I needs to be coming from a place of curiosity

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00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: and trying to reclaim your life. And you made a

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Speaker 1: commitment to me that day that you would get there.

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Speaker 6: I just I hadn't learned it at that point. I

394
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 6: was still researching and there was so much to read,

395
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Speaker 6: and then the same story over and over and over

396
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 6: and over again, with so many different women. I just

397
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Speaker 6: had to learn. So thanks for sticking it out with me.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, thanks for sticking it out with me. Heck, yeah,

399
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Speaker 1: I want to play you something from episode three when

400
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: you were talking to Rachel. You said something really important

401
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: and she said something similar.

402
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Speaker 4: I just hope that this will help someone out there.

403
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Speaker 3: I just want this to help someone who's going through

404
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 3: the same pain that you went through and that I

405
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Speaker 3: went through.

406
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Speaker 5: That's all.

407
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 6: I think we've both learned that just sharing this stuff

408
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 6: if it can help one other person, Bere.

409
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Speaker 1: I just know that helping other victims, you know, of betrayal, trauma, grooming,

410
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: abuse of power was a big part of embarking on

411
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Speaker 1: this project for you, for Rachel, for me, and our

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Speaker 1: other producers. And I think that's why she told her

413
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: story and felt comfortable coming to you. So I hope

414
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: it's okay, but I wanted to spend some time to

415
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: read you some of the letters that we've received from

416
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: our audience, if that's okay, sure. Listening to Jennifer's story

417
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: helped me realize more about an experience I had when

418
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: I was in high school. I had still not fully

419
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: made the connection between my experience and being a victim

420
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: of grooming as a teenager. Putting those missing pieces together

421
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 1: has helped me process and untangle some things and really

422
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: shame I didn't realize was still there. Jennifer, thank you

423
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: for being courageous and sharing your story.

424
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Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna cry well, I am crying.

425
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Here's another one. In two thousand and eight, I was

426
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: twenty two years old and my fifty five year old

427
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: boss did many of these exact same things. He somehow

428
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: talked me into having an affair. I felt beyond sick

429
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: and uncomfortable about it ever since. I didn't say no,

430
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: but I wanted to. He made me feel special all

431
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: the shitty things. It was a type of an assault

432
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: on my psyche, my mind, my heart, and my conscience.

433
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: It took me until this podcast, at thirty seven years

434
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: old to finally forgive myself. Thanks for giving me space

435
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: to sit with my feels and open the door to

436
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: something I didn't think I could heal from. Oh gosh,

437
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: here's the last one I wanted to share. I discovered

438
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: my husband calling and visiting massage parlors offering sexual favors

439
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: my underage girls, whom I believe are victims of trafficking,

440
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: relate to the fairy tale, picturesque life of dreams to

441
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: come in history, proposed to at a castle in Germany.

442
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: I've never been a princess type, but he sure made

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Speaker 1: me feel like one. My family loved him as he

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Speaker 1: offered a helping hand to anyone in need, total boy scout,

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Speaker 1: do good or facade? That was all in genuine.

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Speaker 6: And too good to be true.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer, your story is exactly what I needed to hear

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Speaker 1: at this moment in my life. It has truly impacted

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Speaker 1: my life in the best ways and restored my hope

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Speaker 1: and the potential resilience and recovery and healing the human spirit.

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Speaker 6: Much love and gratitude. You know, I was really scared

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00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 6: to put this out there. It's so personal, it's not

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Speaker 6: a comfortable topic.

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Speaker 1: What do you think you've learned from this.

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Speaker 5: Man?

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Speaker 6: How to be patient, how to be resilient, how to

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Speaker 6: just have faith that the son would come up the

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Speaker 6: next day, and so hearing that it has helped other people,

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Speaker 6: that's it. That's the whole reason that I did this.

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Speaker 6: I feel like you did your job.

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Speaker 1: Jen We're beyond grateful to our listeners for the outpouring

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Speaker 1: of support since we've started. So many of you have

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Speaker 1: written into betrayalpod at gmail dot com with your personal

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00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: experiences and questions associated with this story. Our plan is

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Speaker 1: to address them, so we're taking a few weeks off

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00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: a plan to bring you new episodes with new insights

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00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: very soon. Stay tuned. If you'd like to reach out

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Speaker 1: to the Betrayal team, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. Betrayal

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Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass

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Speaker 1: Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was

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00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Face. It hosted

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Speaker 1: and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by

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Speaker 1: Kerry Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our iHeart team

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00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crinchick. Sound editing and mixing

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00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: done by Matt Taveccio. Betrayal's theme was composed by Oliver Baines.

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00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: Music library provided by my Music and For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.