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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Did you a? Elizabeth is Saront How you doing, girl?

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Speaker 3: I'm good. How are you?

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Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to seeing you.

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Speaker 3: I've been looking forward to see you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got this crazy that I wanted to ask you.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Do I Bradley Books on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's a bibliophile in his profile and I'm

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Speaker 4: kind of hoping he's also a biblio dick excellent, because

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Speaker 4: that's cool.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Bradley tipped me off to something.

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Speaker 2: Always a rude dude.

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Speaker 3: He's a rude dude. The interns, which, by the way,

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Speaker 3: we have a new intern of you matter.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I actually I had to contact hr like day

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Speaker 2: two because she bit me.

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Speaker 3: What yeah, control, Yeah, she like pea in the office.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah. Some of the other interns have complained,

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Speaker 2: They're like, are we paying indoors now? Is that what

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Speaker 2: that's happening?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: Right? And so she's just she goes to town on

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Speaker 3: chew toys and I don't know.

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Speaker 2: She loves peanut butter though.

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Speaker 4: Loves the peanut butter Brosy Rosie. The intern she's problematic.

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Speaker 4: I'm worried she's going to break into the studio and

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Speaker 4: interrupt things. But you know, if it happens, it happens.

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Speaker 2: We just keep going accept life as it is.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, Bradley, Right, So the other good intern forward

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Speaker 4: to this to me that there's this Brazilian Gelattteria. They

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Speaker 4: make a Dorito's ice cream gelatto.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, focus deep breath, and so they have like they

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Speaker 4: put the scoop of gelato.

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Speaker 2: I'm mad for the Italian and then they put some

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Speaker 2: I'm not Italian.

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Speaker 3: Because they're so protective of their food.

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Speaker 2: I've had it in Italy. Gelatto. It's amazing.

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Speaker 4: If you go to Italy, you have to have it,

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Speaker 4: like twice a day every day.

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Speaker 2: I'd have it. It is a treat. Like in the

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Speaker 2: middle after lunch, to be walking around it said, will gelato.

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Speaker 2: Step in a park, watch the birds, the old people

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Speaker 2: talk forever. Is amazing.

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Speaker 3: Wear a linen suit, watch some construction.

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Speaker 2: It was incredible.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, so I see that, I'm like, oh man.

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Speaker 4: But then I started looking that when I was looking

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Speaker 4: for Dorito's Gelato to see like is this a thing?

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Speaker 4: There's a restaurant inside the Crypto dot Com arena called

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Speaker 4: Dorito's after Dark. Okay, they have thirteen menu options, uh

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Speaker 4: you know, like loaded Nacho's that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But in downtown La for anyone who does know, right, right.

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Speaker 4: So that is home of the Lakers, the Hockey's Kings,

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Speaker 4: the w NBA Sparks, and Dorito's after Dark like peach

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Speaker 4: Pit after Dark, but Dorito's after Dark. So they do

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Speaker 4: like you know, they have they have like Dorito's ice

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Speaker 4: cream stuff. I almost said a bad word, but they

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Speaker 4: also they have like a Dorito's California role and what

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Speaker 4: they do imitation crab avocado cucumber, but then like the

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Speaker 4: outside is crushed up flame and hot cool ranch Dorito's.

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Speaker 3: And then they have this.

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Speaker 4: Drink, right, they have a cocktail and I was reading

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Speaker 4: it really quickly. It's the Dorrito's Chamoyata, and I really

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Speaker 4: thought it so chlamydia when I was reading so as

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Speaker 4: it strikes a bounce between spicy and sweet, featuring a

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Speaker 4: frozen mango mixture and a flaming, hotly moon infused chimoy

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Speaker 4: around the rim beverages served with the tangy tammer and

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Speaker 4: candy straw. Uh so you know you were saying bread

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Speaker 4: and circuses day.

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Speaker 3: There you go. So, Bradley, you sent us down this

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Speaker 3: rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: Thanks brad Thank.

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Speaker 3: You, Bradley. Uh, there's Dorito's Gelato.

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Speaker 4: There's a whole Dorito's restaurant, and uh whatever, I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: go hide in a hole filled filled with authentic.

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Speaker 2: ITALI after you.

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Speaker 3: Now, I kind of do want some Doritos?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know on their own excellent. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: when you start shoving them into things like melon balls,

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Speaker 2: you lose me. I got something for you back down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh this is ridiculously going to go get.

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Speaker 2: Us some Yeah, I know you. I saw it in

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Speaker 2: your eyes.

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Speaker 3: And the problematic intern to go get it?

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Speaker 2: Oh maybe yeah Rosie. Oh I don't even think she

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Speaker 2: listens to us. So if you got a second, I

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Speaker 2: got one for you. It's it's basically a concept. It's

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Speaker 2: using an outrageous accent to gain fame and well not

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Speaker 2: exactly fortune, but there was the fame.

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Speaker 3: Is this the Zeron Burnette story?

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Speaker 2: No, this is Ridiculous Crime, A podcast about absurd and

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Speaker 2: outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety nine percent

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Speaker 2: murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous. Ye, Isabeth, I

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Speaker 2: so wanted to tell you this one because I think

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Speaker 2: it's a fun story. Yeah, but also it has like

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Speaker 2: some like not an emotional we has an emotional arc.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, there's a surprise in it, right,

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you go one direction, it comes back

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Speaker 2: to the other anyway, Elizabeth, Yes, I want to talk

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Speaker 2: to you about making big, big money with a big,

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Speaker 2: big time fick accent, a fi accent.

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Speaker 3: Hey are you doing a jah make a mob?

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Speaker 2: Possibly?

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Speaker 3: You know I love that.

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Speaker 2: As we've mentioned from time to time, you spent some

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Speaker 2: time in Scotland.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I thought you're gonna say Jamaica. I was like, I've

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Speaker 3: never been.

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Speaker 2: I've never been to Kingston, right, yeah, no, but you

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Speaker 2: went to grad school in Scotland. I came away with

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Speaker 2: a masters and a pretty good Scottish accent. Do you

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Speaker 2: mind favoring me just for a little bit now? Also,

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Speaker 2: I know when you lived in South Carolina as an

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Speaker 2: expat from California, you also managed to walk away from

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Speaker 2: there with a pretty good South Carolina accent as a

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Speaker 2: Georgia board I.

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Speaker 4: Approved, And there are many different South Carolina accents, so

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Speaker 4: there's like the Charleston, which I really can't do, but

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Speaker 4: I can.

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Speaker 3: I can do backwards so so easy, honey, it's just.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just look at that. I mean, it takes me

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Speaker 2: right back all of a sudden. I'm on a road trip,

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Speaker 2: my lord.

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Speaker 4: I just I don't know how we're going to get

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Speaker 4: to the store this afternoon.

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Speaker 3: The roads are so assy.

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Speaker 2: It's sing song perfect. Now, would you ever feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: doing those types of accents, say, like over the phone

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Speaker 2: where someone can't see you, but you got to do

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Speaker 2: it for the duration of the phone call.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if I warm up, like right now, the sword's

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Speaker 3: so great.

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Speaker 2: But like I did call you to the carpet cold,

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Speaker 2: but I mean like thank you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But if you do trust yourself to pull off.

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Speaker 3: This, I can pull it off.

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Speaker 4: I don't know about the Scott's accent because I can

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Speaker 4: do like two things, well, I can do three things, right,

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Speaker 4: I can do the great. And then there's the one

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Speaker 4: that's in my head. An anytime someone thinks they're going

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Speaker 4: to like post something political of like a cartoon of

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Speaker 4: someone and you know, it's really biting in my head,

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Speaker 4: I always hear you got him dead.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh yeah, big deal. Oh no, it's not anyway.

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Speaker 4: And then the other one is this the Sean Connery

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Speaker 4: you're playing.

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Speaker 3: Boh, and that's it. That's all I've got for that,

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Speaker 3: so classic.

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Speaker 4: If if I were on the phone, I can only

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Speaker 4: say those three things.

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Speaker 3: But a southern accent, like a southern country.

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Speaker 2: You can stay in that for a time.

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Speaker 3: Let me practice warm up a bit. I could do

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Speaker 3: it for hours.

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Speaker 2: Okay, excellent? No do you like? You know me? I

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Speaker 2: love a lot of accents, and you're kidding, yeah, I know,

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Speaker 2: but like also to me that like I don't take

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Speaker 2: them seriously. I'm not trying to usually like do it

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Speaker 2: accent of another country. I'm trying to do like the

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Speaker 2: like the paper, like my paper look French accent? Right, So,

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Speaker 2: but I do actually love the sound of real, authentic

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Speaker 2: like foreign accents and even regional American accents. You have

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Speaker 2: a favorite.

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Speaker 4: I love hearing little kids like argue with each other

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Speaker 4: in Italian and they get all.

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Speaker 3: Hands yes have you seen or like little French kids,

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Speaker 3: you know, like lecturing someone. I love that. I love that.

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Speaker 3: I Oh yeah, Zaren, what do you like? What do

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Speaker 3: you like to hear?

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Speaker 2: I'm asking you the question? Sit back down, now the

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Speaker 2: only way I found you do would know that I

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Speaker 2: like the sound of accent to English, right, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: a big fan of Jamaican accents, Irish, the Indian subcontinent. Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 2: so there's all these accents are like fun to the

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Speaker 2: ear right. Some accents sound more musical, some sound more lyrical.

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Speaker 2: Some accents will have like a hank or a whine

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Speaker 2: to them, or like a funny intonation that hits your ear.

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Speaker 2: Now to keep it more like, we're not making fun

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Speaker 2: of other people, just make fun of Americans. Do you

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Speaker 2: have a regional American accent that always like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you like to listen to regardless, Like it's not like

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Speaker 2: how attractive it sounds, but like how funny or fun

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Speaker 2: it sounds.

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Speaker 3: Um, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I mean I think like the Southern accents. I'm fascinated

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Speaker 4: by the variations of them. You can hear and figure

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Speaker 4: out where someone just like an English accent, you can

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Speaker 4: hear where someone's from. One thing I think is interesting

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Speaker 4: is the California accent that I've had People in Europe

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Speaker 4: tell me when I talk to them, you sound like

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Speaker 4: the television, You sound like movies. And then but then

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Speaker 4: there's also a California thing where we drop teas so

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Speaker 4: Sacramentou is Sacramento, Sacramento.

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Speaker 3: And we just kind of like ellied over those.

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Speaker 2: Also, a lot of the hard consonants like we're just

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Speaker 2: lazy mouths because it's so chill here.

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Speaker 3: It's like, why bother.

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Speaker 2: Why do we have to hit that stuff so hard?

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Speaker 2: Why do you want to come on so strong?

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Speaker 3: I do?

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Speaker 4: I kind of like, what's really grating is that question

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Speaker 4: at the end of everything?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some people do.

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Speaker 2: It's all more generational, I think.

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Speaker 3: Then, yeah, definitely, definitely like you didn't ask.

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Speaker 2: But my favorite American origional accent is probably the Texas

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Speaker 2: Panhandle accent. That's like Whale and Jenny. Think that, Willie Nelson.

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Speaker 2: You just want to hear those people tell a story.

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Speaker 7: I just love it.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 2: Now enough about regional and foreign accents.

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Speaker 4: Right, although I will say one more thing you can

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Speaker 4: tell if someone's an old head, like long time Barry residence,

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Speaker 4: if you call San Jose Santa.

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Speaker 2: Is like one word.

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Speaker 3: One word.

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Speaker 2: I've noticed you do that. I've heard you. You've pointed

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Speaker 2: out to me a long time ago, and I've noticed

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Speaker 2: people do say that, And I'm like, oh, you.

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Speaker 4: Lily, especially if they're on the peninsula sama Is. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: that's fun fact.

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Speaker 2: Well as those indicators. We often you know, can tell

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Speaker 2: a lot from a person by their accent when it's real.

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Speaker 2: Right today, I want to tell you a story about

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Speaker 2: a woman who got famous for an accent that was

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Speaker 2: not real, an outrageous accent, a totally exaggerated accent. What

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Speaker 2: accent you guessed it earlier, Jim, make an accent. But

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Speaker 2: the accent is not the only reason this woman got famous.

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Speaker 2: You see, this woman, Elizabeth, was a psychic. She was

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Speaker 2: from a long line of spooky pipe as she put it. Now,

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Speaker 2: who is this woman? I think we all know and

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Speaker 2: love miss Cleo. Miss Cleo, a telephone and television psychic

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Speaker 2: was all the rage to the start of this century.

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Speaker 2: So you have this Jamaican woman, she's all over cable TV.

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Speaker 2: She's promising to tell you her future. And you remember

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Speaker 2: her right that, you remember, like she's kind of hard

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Speaker 2: to forget. Yeah, she's this warm faced, middle aged black woman.

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Speaker 2: She wore these crazy colorful West Indian outfits and head rabs.

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Speaker 2: You saw my hands going up to my hands didn't

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Speaker 2: even get to the words, And like the head rap

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Speaker 2: it all. Yeah, she had that very famous catchphrase she'd

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Speaker 2: always say to implore people to call her ca I

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Speaker 2: mean now, so Elizabeth, this woman became the face of

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Speaker 2: a billion dollar company billion with a B, a B. Yes,

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Speaker 2: And it was all built on the backs of the

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Speaker 2: hundreds of self professed psychics, all working on dil a

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Speaker 2: minute phone calls. Huh, and then it all came crashing down. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're ready to hear the cautionary tale of Miss Cleo,

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Speaker 2: the psychic who didn't see it coming. She made herself

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Speaker 2: famous as the face of the Psychic Reader's Network, and

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Speaker 2: that's not to be confused with the Psychic Friends Network,

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Speaker 2: which came first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the nineties and early aughts era one

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Speaker 2: nine hundred psychics?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the thirty minute infomercials that were on

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Speaker 2: late nineteen Yeah, it would be like an ad starring

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Speaker 2: Dion Warwick. Yes, sitting on a couch, she'd be telling

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Speaker 2: you to call her psychic Friends and how she or

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Speaker 2: they could be your friend. In that way, you could

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Speaker 2: find out if it really is love, or you'll get

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Speaker 2: that new job, or should you make that movie?

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Speaker 3: We forgot that. Miss Dion was in there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, not only her, there was other she brought her

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Speaker 2: friends or celebrity friends. Friends like Gary Coleman, oh honey, yes,

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Speaker 2: or Isaac the bartender from The Love Boat aka ted Lyone.

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Speaker 3: Did she bring Patti Leveell?

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Speaker 2: I do not remember she brought Patty Levelle. I didn't

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Speaker 2: actually look up.

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Speaker 3: But she sells its.

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Speaker 2: Oh, she will sell anything. Did you sell a pie? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: She got that pile on lock. Now, all these aging

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Speaker 2: celebrities that they were, they were parlaying their fame to

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Speaker 2: cash a check essentially, right, So it kind of had

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Speaker 2: like a real love boat energy. But looking back, the

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Speaker 2: whole Psychic Friends Network thing that was so popular in

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Speaker 2: the nineties, and of course, like it got so popular,

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Speaker 2: that's Saturday Night Live did a skit mocking the Psychic

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Speaker 2: Friends Network and the skit was in season nineteen if

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Speaker 2: you're curious, that would have been the nineteen ninety three

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Speaker 2: ninety four season. The skit had it was called Christopher

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Speaker 2: Walkin's Celebrity Psychic Friends Network. Oh, I remember that the

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Speaker 2: host was not Christopher walking It was Jay Moore, the

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Speaker 2: comedian playing Christopher Walking doing his impression, and he was

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Speaker 2: like doing things like I can tell you things about yourself,

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Speaker 2: things that you don't know right now. It's one of

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Speaker 2: those good SNL skits that makes you wonder why it's

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Speaker 2: on TV right and how soon it will end? Like

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Speaker 2: it just drowns off. I went and watched it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it makes they have Todd Bridges come on. It's like

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Speaker 2: Tim Meadows playing Todd Bridges. He's like threatening to come

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Speaker 2: to your house. Right, and it's like, well that's a

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Speaker 2: whole joke because he's a mess on there. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: So anyway, and also you know those like bad at

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Speaker 2: ending skits that.

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Speaker 3: Has always been the thing they don't know how to strikes.

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Speaker 2: And they don't they never think about it. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: when you guys write your skits, write the ending first.

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Speaker 2: Just just write that, Go how are we going to

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Speaker 2: end this thing? And then right to that, right and

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Speaker 2: anyway whatever, anyway, Happy fiftieth anniversary SNL.

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Speaker 6: I do.

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Speaker 2: I bring up that skit as a good measure of

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Speaker 2: how popular the Psychic Friends Network was in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: The infomercials were everywhere, always on. If you watch late

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Speaker 2: night cable TV like I did and like you did now.

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Speaker 2: Between nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four or the

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Speaker 2: Psychic Friends ran twelve thousand and thirty minute long infomercials.

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Speaker 2: The company behind the network was paying about half a

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Speaker 2: million dollars per week for their late night TV cable

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Speaker 2: time ass yes, yeah, so what was that ad investment

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Speaker 2: worth to them?

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Speaker 3: That's what I say. If you're putting out that kind

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Speaker 3: of money.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty five million dollars a year off

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Speaker 2: of phone calls to a psychic yeah, now, because I

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Speaker 2: know you liked the conversion rates, that would be two

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five million dollars a year in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five dollars. They were printing money, Elizabeth. As you know,

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Speaker 2: when there's heat, where there's success like that, you will

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Speaker 2: often find sleazier imitators.

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Speaker 3: Completely.

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Speaker 2: But if you're sleazier than the Psychic Friends network, watch

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Speaker 2: out now. So Intermiss Cleo and the knockoff Psychic Reader's Network, right,

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Speaker 2: it's a network, Yes, totally. They had to get the

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Speaker 2: exact same language. So people get confused. I heard about

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Speaker 2: this the Psychic Readers. I guess that's it.

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Speaker 4: Whatever, Well, it's like publisher's clearing house. That's not what

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Speaker 4: Ed McMahon apparently he was worth like American in America.

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Speaker 2: There you go, something like that.

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Speaker 4: But I was we all associated with Publishers Clearinghouse because

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Speaker 4: they were like competing. They were like you know when

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Speaker 4: you have like a competing asteroid movies.

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Speaker 2: Yes, totally, or competing Robinhood movies, competing like Friends with

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Speaker 2: Benefits movies, yes, or movies.

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Speaker 3: Or good lord, come on now.

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Speaker 2: So uh, that's what we have here, is competing, Like

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Speaker 2: just how don't you want to call them like entertainment? Yes,

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Speaker 2: it is entertainment, but it's so much more than that

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Speaker 2: competing cons Well, this is how Miss Cleo comes to

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Speaker 2: the world, thanks to the attempt to peel off some

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Speaker 2: of that value that they can get from this call

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Speaker 2: a one nine hundred psychics or like, we can get

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Speaker 2: some of that let's squeeze this in. But we need

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Speaker 2: a hook better than Dion Warwick. What can be better

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Speaker 2: than Dion Warwick? Cleo, just take a little break and

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Speaker 2: have these messages. I will introduce you to.

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Speaker 8: The lady himself, Elizabeth zaren you ready to meet Miss Cleo.

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Speaker 2: That's not her real name. Her government name is actually

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Speaker 2: Eurray del Harris. Originally Miss Cleo wasn't even a psychic. Instead,

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Speaker 2: she was a different kind of storyteller. She was originally

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Speaker 2: intending to be a playwright. In the early nineties, she

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Speaker 2: was living in the Seattle area working in local theater.

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Speaker 2: She was known by her stage name Ray Perry, and

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Speaker 2: she was also known by many other names, Euray Khleiomilli,

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Speaker 2: Urray Del Harris, Urray Paris, Ray Del Harris, Cleo, Milly Paris,

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Speaker 2: Euray Cleo, Millie Harris. You can hear the Cleo starting

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Speaker 2: to creep in. She wasn't there yet, so she did

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Speaker 2: find though, the seeds of her future is Miss Cleo.

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Speaker 2: While she was in the theater scene in Seattle. So

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Speaker 2: she was performing at the Langston Hughes Performing Center. It

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Speaker 2: was this hub for the black arts community scene in Seattle.

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Speaker 2: While she's there, she puts on two plays that she wrote.

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Speaker 2: In one of the plays called for women only, she

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Speaker 2: creates this character named Miss Cleo. Okay, the woman was

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Speaker 2: a Jamaican shawman, so trouble was. According to the Seattle

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Speaker 2: Post Intelligencer, the future in Miss Cleo Quote was hired

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Speaker 2: by the Langston Hughes Nonprofit Advisory Council and provided with

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Speaker 2: a budget with which to pay the cast and crew

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Speaker 2: of her plays, but only some were even partially paid,

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Speaker 2: according to two cast members and two Langston Hughes Center employees.

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Speaker 2: So even as a playwright, she's already doing little low

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Speaker 2: key scams. Now she basically she kept the money she

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Speaker 2: was given from this small nonprofit theater and then she

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Speaker 2: cut down. But now she didn't get into any trouble

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Speaker 2: even though she walked away with all this cash because

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Speaker 2: the amount that she stole was so small it wasn't

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Speaker 2: deemed worth the cost it would take to go find

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Speaker 2: and prosecutor. Oh okay, so after that, that's how she

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Speaker 2: left town. But also there was the issue of how

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Speaker 2: she left town. Like first she told everyone in the

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Speaker 2: theater that she had bone cancer. Oh, Elizabeth, she did

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Speaker 2: not have bone.

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Speaker 3: Cancer, no, you know.

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Speaker 2: But she did tell the cast and crew that she

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Speaker 2: needed to go get treatment for her imaginary bone cancer.

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Speaker 2: That's why she was leaving town. And she needed the

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Speaker 2: money from the theater stipend for the treatment. And she

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Speaker 2: wrote the actors and the crew all letters explaining how

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Speaker 2: she planned to pay them back individually. Then she blew town.

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Speaker 2: No one got paid, and no one ever heard from

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Speaker 2: her again. Yes, now, after she fled Seattle, she left

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Speaker 2: this memorable impression on the folks that she had built.

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Speaker 2: One woman told the Seattle Post Intelligencer that the future

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Speaker 2: Miss Cleo was quote brilliant. Unfortunately she was using all

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Speaker 2: that talent and energy not in the best interests of

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Speaker 2: people around her.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is like pre GoFundMe.

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Speaker 2: Oh, she's just yeah exactly.

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Speaker 4: She's like everybody, I have hair cancer. It's very serious.

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Speaker 2: To get away. So you guys, you please have have

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Speaker 2: support in your hearts for me. Now you want to

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Speaker 2: know where she went next, Well, folks in Seattle, they

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Speaker 2: also did, but they didn't hear from ever again, So

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Speaker 2: they didn't know till years later when suddenly she's all

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Speaker 2: over late night TV.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, could you imagine?

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Speaker 2: But by then she's this new person. She'd become the

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Speaker 2: Jamaican shaman character, Miss Cleo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're watching TV. You see the lady that

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Speaker 3: you gave like too? Oh man?

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Speaker 2: So now are you ready for things to get extra sensory?

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Speaker 3: Of course.

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Speaker 2: So after she rips off this local nonprofit theater scene

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Speaker 2: and flee Seattle, the future Miss Cleo she goes next

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Speaker 2: to where Elizabeth want to guess there's fifty states. Obviously

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Speaker 2: not one of them is going to be Washington. So

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Speaker 2: what state?

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Speaker 3: Florida?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she did. The answer was Florida. I knew you

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Speaker 2: would get it. I've heard it said numerous times. If

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Speaker 2: you could somehow pick up the country, a pick up

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00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 2: with America and shake it all the loose nuts would

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Speaker 2: end up in either Florida or Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that totally makes sense.

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Speaker 2: In her case, she wound up in Florida and so

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Speaker 2: and specifically in Pompino Beach. It's a beach town just

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Speaker 2: at the Fort Lauderdale, about thirty five miles north of

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Speaker 2: Miami on the Atlantic coast. Okay, so she finds work

438
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 2: there as a tarot card reader, a psychic medium. She

439
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: sets up at a table wherever there are people milling about,

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Speaker 2: you know, like oh, this farmer's market, let get a

441
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: table out right. She goes to like, you know, open

442
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 2: air shopping malls. Let me set my table out right,

443
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 2: and then there she would go and fleece the gullible.

444
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: So she's working in a mall in Pompino Beach, Florida,

445
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: doing her tarot card readings as her Jamaican shaman character. Yeah,

446
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: and that's when these two cousins spot her, and when

447
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: they see her run on her patois inflected Tarot card

448
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: game boom dollar signed. They're like money, money, money.

449
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 6: Now.

450
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: The two cousins, they were from Fort Lauderdale. Their names

451
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: are Peter Stultz and Steven Fader. They had a company

452
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: called Access Resource Services, which is the kind of name

453
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 2: that doesn't tell you at all what they do, so

454
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 2: they can say they do anything. So in nineteen ninety three,

455
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: based on the huge success of the Psychic Friends Network,

456
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 2: these Florida cousins start their own network of psychics and

457
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 2: they call it the Psychic Advisors Network, but also it

458
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: was called the Psychic Reader Network, so they got different names,

459
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 2: all right, So put this in nineteen eighties terms. They

460
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: were basically the gobots to the Psychic Friends Networks transformed.

461
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 4: That's another one of the okay yes from the cousins.

462
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: Peter Stultan Stephen Fader are standing there in that mall

463
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 2: in Pompino Beach. They see Miss Cleo work in the

464
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: small crowd using her Jamaican shaman persona, and the cousins

465
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 2: they see a star and they know this star is

466
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 2: gonna make them big, big money so they go over

467
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: and they approach her. Now, Elizabeth, I know, like you know,

468
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 2: I go for some woo woo stuff, right, sure, So

469
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: miss Cleo, is she really like a psychicic call? Does

470
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: she have some real powers?

471
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 5: Yeah?

472
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 6: Right?

473
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: The question is like, was she actually gifted in the

474
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 2: psychic cards or was it all a scam and a grift? Well,

475
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 2: luckily we have her to answer that question.

476
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: Wow.

477
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: She gave an interview device and she explained how she

478
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: got into this business. And she said, and I quote,

479
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 2: I come from a family of spooky people. I don't

480
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 2: know how to see it. I come from a family

481
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 2: of obeah, which is a neta word for vouru. My

482
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: teacher was hey sh and boy at and I studied

483
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 2: under half of thirty and then become a mambo myself.

484
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: All right, a mambo.

485
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 3: She comes from spooky people.

486
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 2: Spooky people I love. Yeah, And she's a mambo. A

487
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: mambo myself. Well, she's not actually a dance she had.

488
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: Mambo in this case means like a spirit worker.

489
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 3: Right.

490
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to miss Cleo, she's got breed to say.

491
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 2: So they refer to me as psychic because the word

492
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: voodo scares people just about everybody. So they told me, no, no,

493
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 2: we can't use that word. We're going to call you

494
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 2: a psychic. I said, but I'm not a psychic. Then

495
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 2: you would take me somewhere to do an interview. And

496
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: as soon as I'd say, but I'm not the psychic.

497
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: I don't own the company, the handles. No, no, no,

498
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 2: tell her to shut up.

499
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: So wait, did she have an accent when she was

500
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: in Washington State?

501
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 2: No? Did she have an accent when she gave the

502
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 2: interview device? Yes, so I'm reading according to the transcript

503
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: for authenticity. So what do we got so far? According

504
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: to her, she have a woman who came from spooky people,

505
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: and she was trained in voodoo by a Haitian woman

506
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: to be a mambo. But the word voodoo scares white folks.

507
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: So this Florida cousins call her a psychic instead, but

508
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: she says she's not a psychic, even though she will

509
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: play one on TV. Now all clear?

510
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I got it.

511
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: So anyway, when the cousins offer her the job, obviously

512
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 2: she takes it. Psychic or not, she takes it. Starting

513
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven, Miss Cleo becomes the face of

514
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: the new psychic Reader's Network. Each short's Dion Warwick. Now

515
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: the Psychic Friends Network was running half hour long commercials

516
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: that sometimes look like Oprah Winfrey shows. Yeah, the new

517
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: Psychic Reader's Network they ran thirty second and minute long

518
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: late night TV at so like, why thirty minutes when

519
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: you only need thirty seconds to make an impression them.

520
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: Almost instantly, Miss Cleio becomes a budget late night TV celebrity.

521
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: She had obviously her Jamaican shaman x, but she went

522
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: one step further. She started telling folks that she and

523
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 2: her people were from Trey Lane, Jamaica. She went full

524
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: on fake and Jamaican. At this point, she starts saying

525
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 2: she's Jamaican.

526
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: Right Ros Trent.

527
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 2: So she and the totally she and the Florida cousins.

528
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: They knew that her Jamaican persona coded her as like

529
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 2: this West Indian witch, so she plays all that up.

530
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: She starts wearing bright color the regal head wraps. She

531
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: sits at a table with tarot cards spread before and

532
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: in the ads she'd respond to like a series of

533
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: disembodied voices of callers. Right, you don't see these other

534
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: people usually women, and the callers are almost always young

535
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: to middle aged female voices right, so she's talking to them,

536
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: and this explains why in the ads miss Cleo acted

537
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: like their Jamaican girlfriend who is going to keep it

538
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 2: real with you, right right. So I watched a few

539
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: of these ads for you as well as you would

540
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: say for shiggles.

541
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 6: Right.

542
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 2: In one I watched, she said to a caller his

543
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 2: eyes are almost spooky, they're so pretty. In the caller response,

544
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: that'd be my ex boyfriend, and Miss Cleo pulls a

545
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: tarot card says, if I have a sword just next

546
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: to him, that me and he is away, and the

547
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: coller says yep, and to which Miss Cleo then says,

548
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: digit think Cleo wasn't going to see that, And the

549
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: caller can see I knew you were, and that makes

550
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo laugh from recognition, and she replies, you go girl.

551
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 5: Now.

552
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: There's another thirty second ad that focuses on just one

553
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: call it all totally. You go girl. Now, Miss Cleo

554
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: asked this young woman who asked you to go out

555
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: of town? The stupid young one or the married one?

556
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: Oh right, and the collar says the married one. Miss

557
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: Cleo jumps on this. That's what me taught, don't go.

558
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 2: You hear me, and you know what, you not listening

559
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: to me because I see you gone. I see you gone,

560
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: and the collar laughs knowing she's caught right. I'm just

561
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 2: telling you. I'm trying to help you to avoid the

562
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: heartache man. Then comes the appeal to the viewer, don't

563
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: go blindly through life. Let me use the power of

564
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 2: the terror to show it away.

565
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: Come in now.

566
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: Right so as you can hear. It's mostly women calling

567
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 2: in about their love lives, their exes, their next loves,

568
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: their futures when it comes to jobs, new homes, new businesses,

569
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 2: but like they weren't afraid to go for it in

570
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: these ads and bring that full Moury Povich daytime TV energy,

571
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: but the dense down to thirty seconds. I found this

572
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: one ad from nineteen ninety eight. Miss Cleo was seated

573
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 2: in like a carved wooden like high backed chair like

574
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 2: an elf would have in its dining room. Right, and

575
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: she's got the background as a shot of clouds and

576
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: it looks like it super red for some reason. It

577
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: looks like like you probably don't know this, but the

578
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: star Wars volcano, Moon of Moustafar. I couldn't think of

579
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: another red sky compared to anyway.

580
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: No, no, I haven't. I've been outside.

581
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: I was touching grass earlier today.

582
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 3: Red skies at night sailors.

583
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 4: Delight think of that because I was, you know, in

584
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: the service in the forties.

585
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: Raised by merchant marines. So Miss Cleo, she's wearing a

586
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 2: sensible black head wrap and a top that's like a

587
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: polo style three button shirt and it looks like she's

588
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: borrowed it from like some West Indian uncle. Right now,

589
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: she's also shuffling a tarot deck as the caller asked, okay,

590
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: I was wondering who the father of my child was. No,

591
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: without missing meat, Miss Cleo starts shuffling the Tarot cards

592
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: with way more purpose, right, like we're about to go

593
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: find out girl. And she folds the tarot cards like

594
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: playing cards, and she does that bridge trick where you

595
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: shuffle the cards like she's playing these cards, right, And

596
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: she said, all right, let's take a look, and as

597
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: she laughs to herself, she starts shaking. She's like the

598
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo DNA test. Now she does a quick tarot

599
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: card layout. We're slowly searching for the father of your baby.

600
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: Now on screen it says Tarot cards never lie.

601
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 3: Wait on this, this is for entertainment.

602
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: No, no, it's like in big letters, not that small

603
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: legal brand is in big letters that those letters fade

604
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: away and the replacement the phrase learned the truth. Oh now,

605
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo delivers a harsh truth to the young woman.

606
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 2: She says, it's the one that's very unpleasant okay, And

607
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: the caller says okay. But Miss Cleo, it's not done though,

608
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: delivering the bad news. She says, and he's also the

609
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: one that had another girlfriend while he was sleeping with you.

610
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: She's like, the caller astrimate, Yes he did.

611
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: There are great guesses.

612
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're in that situation, it's like, I

613
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 4: don't know which one is it that Like, I think

614
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 4: we can figure out some demographic information.

615
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: Take a wild shot in the dark year. So she

616
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: miss clear she takes her victory lap for being right.

617
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: She's like, yep, that's him, that's the daddy. And the

618
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: woman's like, oh okay. She says it like her Obgyn

619
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: gave her test results, Like okay, there it is. Now,

620
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo. She stares right at the camera, so right

621
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: at you, the viewer, and she's smuggly now smiling as

622
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: the caller, we can't see that's the knowledge of who

623
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: her baby daddy is sink in. She's like, oh, you

624
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: got get the unpleasant one, right, miss Cleo, she's called

625
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: him now sinks the like the kill shot. Basically, she's like,

626
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: but you knew that, And the colls like, I wasn't sure,

627
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: but miss Cleo, not done yet. I don't know how

628
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: the baby looks just like him? So how is she

629
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: seeing this in the tarot cards? I don't know. But

630
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: the caller doesn't ask, doesn't question it. She goes, yes,

631
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: he does look just like And now at this point,

632
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: this dollar store therapist, Miss Cleo, goes, yeah, you were

633
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: so un denied because and this is where she puts

634
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: like her hand to her face to indicate the size

635
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: of the chin. So she's like pinching her chin, and

636
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: he has this funny little chin, doesn't tea. And the

637
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: woman's like, oh, yes.

638
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: He does, do you nail, You're right?

639
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: And like yeah, and the baby has that same little chin,

640
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: and she's like tapping her own chin like it's just

641
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: a comical thing, like this is how you identify the kid.

642
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: Elizabeth the collar is impressed. She says, like, in this

643
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: breathless way, Oh my god, Like she's.

644
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 4: Just she's gonna use a cassette in the custody case.

645
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: In People's court and appearing before Judge Wapnet. So another

646
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: satisfied customer. This little mini drama.

647
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: By the way, my baby was born with a goateee.

648
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 4: He has a goate it has to be it's.

649
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: Got to be him, your honor. This all goes down

650
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: in thirty seconds, right, amazing. So imagine like you're watching

651
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: TV late at night. You're drunk, you're high, you're an insomniac,

652
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: whatever you are, you're waiting for your late night shift.

653
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: You're watching this late night TV and this drops this

654
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: little gem of drama. It's incredible, right. Is this a

655
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: spectacle of unhinged humanity? Yeah, as you can also no

656
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: doubt here these scammer cousins from Florida who are running

657
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: this whole knockoff network of phone psychics. Yeah, they aimed

658
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: at their money vacuums, at the vulnerable, the gullible, the desperate,

659
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: mostly lonely young women in middle aged women who wanted

660
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: to hear pretty little lies right right now, it's this,

661
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: as I said earlier, dollar store therapy. So miss cleil would.

662
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: She's delivering hard trucity women telling them they deserve better.

663
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: Some of it's positive, some of it's like this is

664
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: your baby, daddy, you know. So not all of it's good,

665
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: but like I did like when she'd be like, well

666
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: look girl, dismound's a bumb him always gonna be a bomb,

667
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: and you don't want to have no bum in your laugh.

668
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: You deserve better, girl, Good advice right now. So this

669
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: has real appeal. Obviously, entertainment appeal as well is something

670
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: Americans love. A like pre slavery era stereotype of a

671
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: wholesome fantasy rolled up into one. You get this like

672
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: middle aged, mammified black woman who looks after their emotional

673
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: well being with all of her like earthy old Negro

674
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: wisdom and the power of like the bones and.

675
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: Hoodoo and voodoo, magical Negro.

676
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: Totally so, which is why plenty of Jamaicans hated her.

677
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: Oh I can imagine West Indians found her whole deal offensive.

678
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 6: Right.

679
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 4: First of all, I am doubting that she nailed the accent.

680
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: No wait, what you're talking about, gown.

681
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: Now, that's gotta be so insulting.

682
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: So believing aside her wandering come and go Jamaican accent.

683
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo would also catch hell for like just her

684
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: whole vibe whenever she went out in public and folks

685
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: recognized her and they would tell her about her fake

686
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: and Jamaican routine. And as she told Vice, they are

687
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: places rere I go and people are like yo, Miss Cleo,

688
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: and I try to run. I've had people come to

689
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: me and there it's like a big controversy about miss

690
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: cleis not Jamaican, right, And I'm like, well, yeah, you're

691
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: you're not.

692
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: You're not.

693
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: Though she attempts to set the record straight, Miss Cleo says,

694
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: and I quote, so one day I'm in line to

695
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: pay my phone bell and then there was a Jamaican

696
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: woman dad, and we are chatting and she goes, you

697
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: know who you favor? And I say who She said,

698
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo, And I say, yeah, I'm on, but miha,

699
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: she's not Jamaican. And she say, yeah, me here that too,

700
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: And I went about my business. She had no idea.

701
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: So obviously Miss Cleo is pleased with the story for

702
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: at least two reasons. Right one, the real Jamaican hears

703
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: her speak and believes her to be one of her

704
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: country women. And then two, she's not recognized as the

705
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: character she plays on late night TV, which proves she

706
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: can be real and the character is something you see

707
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: on TV and that's not real. So she's able to

708
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: divide herself. She's working on mini levels of little.

709
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot going on.

710
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: It's like you say, with you know your man, Walt Whitman.

711
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: She Miss Cleo contains multitude.

712
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: She does.

713
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: But also, according to her, there was another reason she

714
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: couldn't be real with people in the street. As Miss

715
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: Cleo told Vice and I quote, so, I had some

716
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: Jamaican people who are anger at me, saying that I

717
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: was a bad representative of theirs. I've always said, it's

718
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: not my company. Then they would do this stuff to

719
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: punish me. Now she goes all over there right with

720
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: the pronouns. So what she's saying is I find interesting,

721
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: is she put herself in some distance between her and

722
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: the Jamaicans. She was like, I was a bad representative

723
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: of theirs, not ours. So she kind of tells on

724
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: herself right there, right, and then at the end she says,

725
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: then they would do stuff to punish me, not the Jamaicans.

726
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: The Jamaicans didn't punish her. It was the Florida cousins

727
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: who she's talking about. She's a little hard to follow out. Yeah,

728
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: so anyway back to miss clear.

729
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 4: That detective work is so like on a on a

730
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 4: TV show when someone is missing and their spouse refers

731
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: to them the past, and the detectives are like, oh.

732
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: That's interesting. Yes, that's total basically what you just did,

733
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 3: saren So.

734
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: As mister tells it, they spent a lot of time

735
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: trying to make me into something I was completely not.

736
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: I speak perfect English. When you grew up in America

737
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: and your Caribbean, your parts beat it into you that

738
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: the only way to succeed is by dropping the patois.

739
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: My mother was very deliberate about that, and so was

740
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: my father. Wait, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. She's

741
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: speaking in a fake pat saying that she was told

742
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: to drop it to be successful, which is why she's

743
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: being interviewed just because of the patois. Anyway, none of

744
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: that is why her gravy train came to an abrupt end.

745
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: I'll take a little break, Elizabeth, and when we get back,

746
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: I'll tell you how this thing goes off the rail.

747
00:33:42,280 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 7: I can't wait, Elizabeth, you're back.

748
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: Enjoy Miss Cleo.

749
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: I am loving this so much. This is such a great, comfortable,

750
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 3: fun ride.

751
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 7: Joy.

752
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: I probably want to give you some giggles.

753
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 3: Thank you.

754
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: Now, Miss Cleo. She gets, you know, all shook up

755
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: at the end of this tale, obviously, but it's not

756
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: really her fault. It's more about how the Florida Cousins

757
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: are running the company, that she's the face person of

758
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: this very predatory business.

759
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

760
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 2: Now, the amount that the Florida Cousins were making each

761
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 2: year is not exactly known, but there are healthy estimates

762
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 2: by forensic government accountants that put the company's annual income

763
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: at around four hundred million dollars a year.

764
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: Four hundred million a year.

765
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 2: As Miss c told Vice, I'm going to quote you

766
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: a number from the FBI. They're putting down using my

767
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: face my talent, twenty four million a month for two

768
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: years straight.

769
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: God, that's a lot of phone calls.

770
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 2: It's insane. And also that's a lot of lonely women.

771
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: That's a lot of people calling in looking for help.

772
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: Instead they talk to some phony psychic who's probably on

773
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: like a wordless phone as they make dinner for their

774
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: two kids.

775
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: Because it's not all miss Cleo. It's not like Miss

776
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 4: Cleo's twenty two hours.

777
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 2: And they're all independent contractors, mostly working from home.

778
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 3: You keep getting a busy signal because like you can't

779
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 3: get through.

780
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: Everyone trying to get her. Elizabeth. Back in the early

781
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: days of the internet, if I remember correctly, you ran

782
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: an account for a psychic housecat.

783
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 3: Yes, I did, toty three thousand.

784
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,479
Speaker 2: Now do you think it would be that you would

785
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: make a good phony phone psychic as I.

786
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: Was so good as toty three thousand, because when you know,

787
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: if someone would ask is my boyfriend cheating?

788
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 3: My answer was always.

789
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 4: Yes, because if you have to ask a stranger that

790
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 4: question question, there's a problem. And like if if he's

791
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: not cheating, there's still on his way to it, there's something.

792
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: That your spidy sense, so get out of there.

793
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 4: I was always just like cut bait, you like, get

794
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 4: out of there, and you know.

795
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: Or like people, Am I ever going to find a love?

796
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 5: Yeah?

797
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: Sure, you know, of course tell me about them, you know.

798
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: Whatever, love for salmon fishing.

799
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 4: But therapy basically, yeah, it's like I approached it like

800
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: I would be talking to friends who wanted advice and

801
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 4: just kind of also messing with people, you know, because

802
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 4: I'm an agent of camp.

803
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: There you go. Now you were you a little bit

804
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: of worried that people might actually take your advice.

805
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: Well, I never told him anything.

806
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: You like, anything like you should do this or do that, you.

807
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 4: Should quit your job and like slash your boss's tires

808
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 4: and then.

809
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: Start that jam band and maybe the country it's in

810
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: the stars.

811
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 4: No, what I would do is I'd be like, what,

812
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 4: I need some information. I need your birthday and your

813
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 4: favorite color, and I forget what the other one was.

814
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: And then I would always have because it was you know,

815
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 4: we'd have the newspaper. I'd open up the San Francisco

816
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 4: Chronicle and then type out whatever their horoscope was, so.

817
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: You were just chat GBT.

818
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 4: Act patient zero, chat GPT and then you know, and

819
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: they think, well, a favorite color, and then maybe.

820
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: I'd riff on that.

821
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 4: You know, it's just like some you know, my favorite

822
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 4: color is blue, and I'd be like, you know, you

823
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 4: have these aspirations of the sky. Everything is ahead of

824
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 4: you and open, and you need to tap into that. Interesting,

825
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 4: that's how you feel that connection, and.

826
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: They are you just hoping that they then interpret it

827
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: the way that would be meaningful.

828
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: To them.

829
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 3: Of course, you know you're just pushing.

830
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 4: It's some little pep talks, you know, and then getting

831
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 4: women to break up with their boyfriend a lot of favors.

832
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: The better place. Yeah, yes, you're like Josh Gondleman out

833
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: there giving pep talks and making the world a better way.

834
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 4: Boy, your friends will tell you, like, dude, that guy

835
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 4: is horrible. You have to stop, like block his number.

836
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 4: And you're like, yeah, but but if a stranger is

837
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 4: like for real and they don't even know you just

838
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: sometimes sometimes I would amput up, But that's really dangerous.

839
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: You have to get away from I don't.

840
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 4: Know anything as some nerd doe boyfriend, Like he's very dangerous. Bay,

841
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 4: So I apologize to all the customers.

842
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: Of it was in America?

843
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 5: What is it?

844
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: Al?

845
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: Yes, America online AOL room wow, like in the early days.

846
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 4: And so I would just like toty three thousand psychic readings.

847
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 3: Love this, like in the evening when you're born, just like.

848
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: Who's in the mood for a reading? Psychic cat is?

849
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: I have my mom and my brother there with me,

850
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 4: a couple. Yeah, we would just like sit around.

851
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: You run out of like the San Francisco chronicles at the.

852
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: You know, at the in those days you had a

853
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: computer table.

854
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: Or oh yeah the house, yeah, the house, like the

855
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: shared family computer.

856
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we would all gather around the fan.

857
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: And lightest strangers has a psychic house.

858
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: Guy, I'll tell you, I'll tell you the truth. My

859
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 3: mom's the one who started the toy.

860
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: You're busting her out.

861
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: We're all just hanging around. She's like, watch this.

862
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 2: Well, as a former fake psychic, I thought you might

863
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: appreciate how the psychic readers network operation works. Yes, I'm

864
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: fast because they had far more people. You know, it

865
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: was a much bigger operation than your family run operation.

866
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: So from miss Cleo, she really was a telephone operator.

867
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: You really could call and talk to her.

868
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 3: She really did time on the phone.

869
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she worked the phones. And then as her

870
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: fane began to grow, obviously, then she started doing ads

871
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: and traveling. But she's still even then was still ad

872
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: inswering phones apparently, and she was paid for it. And

873
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: while she was like on the TV doing ad, she's

874
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: still being paid as a phone operator.

875
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 3: Interesting.

876
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and can you guess how much she was making.

877
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: I'll give you some parameters just to help and narrow

878
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: it down. Most of the psychics on the network made

879
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 2: fourteen to twenty four cents a minute.

880
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 3: Fourteen to twenty How long is the.

881
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: Average call I'll get I'll tell you that in a second.

882
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 4: Fourteen and so she that's what the average. So she's

883
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: making what would you say, fourteen to twenty four, So

884
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: she's probably making like twenty seven cents.

885
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: Twenty four she's making she's the.

886
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: Top top burner. Yep, the bottom that calls.

887
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: Out to be about fifteen dollars an hour if you're talking.

888
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 3: The whole time, fifteen dollars.

889
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: So the hours are.

890
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 4: Also and they're pulling in what was it, like four

891
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 4: hundred million a year or something, a.

892
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 2: Lot of independent contractors. So yeah, the hours of these

893
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 2: people are long. The customers often would tell them these

894
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: heartbreaking stories, so they got to listen to a lot

895
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: of sad things. Yeah, they're parts of the conversation. The

896
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: customers are real, you know, their emotions are true. So

897
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: the whole goal is to keep them on the phone

898
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: a long time.

899
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's a nine hundred numbers, nine hundred number when.

900
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: You call, because that was like dial a minute.

901
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, eight hundred obviously was free, toll free nine hundred

902
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 4: by the minute.

903
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they get you in the first three minutes

904
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 2: on the one eight hundred number.

905
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

906
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: Once you call that in, then they go, okay, well

907
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: let's talk a second. They ask you, they put you

908
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: on hold, and they use up your three free minutes,

909
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: and then they go call the one nine hundred number

910
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: and you can talk to psychic Betty or whatever. Right,

911
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: and then that's how they would get you then talking

912
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: for and the average calls were about twelve to fifteen minutes.

913
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: That's what they tried to get him to go to.

914
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: The longest ones are usually about an hour at that rate,

915
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 2: that's about sixty dollars per average call at twelve minutes

916
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: an average call. So if you have twelve minutes is

917
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: your average call, you are making sixty dollars per average

918
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: call or charging six charges.

919
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I call, I'm on the phone five dollars

920
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: per minute. I'm going to get my at that time

921
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: I Pacific Bell telephone bill.

922
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just see. Yeah, also in the charge

923
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: with three hundred dollars or whatever. Now, once again, as

924
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: they said, we don't have exact numbers, but it's estimated

925
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: by federal investigators from the Federal Trade Commission that over

926
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: a three year period the company pulled in a billion

927
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 2: dollars in telephone charges.

928
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 8: A billion.

929
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've gone over how much that is. Yes,

930
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: that's a lot, that's a lot, a lot.

931
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 7: Yeah.

932
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: So if they're pulling that down right, obviously things were

933
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: boom and they got a whole battalion of fake phone psychics,

934
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: not just miss Cleo. So, but they all have to

935
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: maintain the same vibe as her. She has set an

936
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: imprint of what people are expecting. So the company does

937
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: not train their fake psychics. They don't do They don't

938
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: even do like a day long seminar.

939
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: Nope, like a two page PDS.

940
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: No, they do give them that. They give them a

941
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: script to follow, okay, and then they also give them

942
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 2: like this tarot card like a program, computer program, so

943
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: they can just run. Oh that's just yeah, they'll like

944
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: randomize the tarot.

945
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 3: Card thought they were going to get.

946
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: They were instructed to focus on money, new jobs, potential moves,

947
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: and love always love and push push love. And then

948
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: also if you get asked, you do know who the

949
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: baby daddy is? Oh no, We obviously do have some

950
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: accounts of what it was like to be a fake psychic

951
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: for the Psychic Reader's Network, But there were some stories

952
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: from major newspapers and outlets, Especially in twenty sixteen. We

953
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: have like author Bennett Madison penned and I account for

954
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 2: The New York Times entitled I was a hotline psychic

955
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: for Miss Cleo.

956
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

957
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 2: Now, as Madison recounts her time as a fake phone

958
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: psychic in two thousand and one, quote that summer, whenever

959
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: I could, I stayed up all nights, smoking out the

960
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: window and guzzling cheap wine while doling out fortunes over

961
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: a landline. For some reason, the customers expecting Miss Cleo

962
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: didn't seem to mind when they got a clueless, depressive

963
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: twenty year old from the suburbs instead. Since I was

964
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: not actually psychic, the Psychic Reader's Network provided me with

965
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: the minimal script to read and a computer program that

966
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: stimulated a Tarot card spread. I used neither. It worked

967
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: better to make it up as I went along. That's

968
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,959
Speaker 2: really the best approach for anything is just keep it lose,

969
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 2: keep it flexible.

970
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: Middle of the night, wine wine.

971
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: Bus, Yeah, exactly, talking to strangers.

972
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 3: Man all fuzzy.

973
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: Now, how did she do in her own Miss Cleo

974
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: like way well Madison's self reports quote. I often slipped

975
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: into one of a few personas I had invented to

976
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: make myself feel more authentically magical. Sometimes I was Cassandra,

977
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: a husky voice Southern bell who called everyone on a child.

978
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: Other times I became Gabrielle, a fay mystic with an

979
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: accent that I imagined to be Frenchish. People seem to

980
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: like Cassandra best, but I can never keep rep for

981
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 2: more than a call or two. She made my throat horse.

982
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 3: Oh god, So.

983
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: Can you imagine putting on all these different personas for

984
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: callers like a kid playing make believe in their parents'

985
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: old clothes. Right, that's your job. Well, you don't have

986
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: to do that, because I imagined you're doing exactly that.

987
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: But rather than me tell you about Elizabeth, I'd like

988
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: you to close your eyes and I'd like you to

989
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 2: picture it. You are a telephone psychic, recently hired by

990
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: the Psychic Reader's Network after you lost your old job

991
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: as a makeup artist for photo shoots for people's pets.

992
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: There was that incident with the guinea pig and the

993
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: eyebrow pencil. Anyway, you found new work. At the moment.

994
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: You're seated on the floor of your apartment, cross legged

995
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: on a lush Persian rug, talking on a headset as

996
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: you fill out a crossword puzzle. Your cat, Mickey blue Eyes,

997
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: lies against your leg, gently purring, warmed by a shaft

998
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: of afternoon sunlight. You listen to a caller as she

999
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: asks if she should stay at her well paying job

1000
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 2: even though she's in a long distance relationship. Her partner

1001
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: is pressuring her to relocate so they can be together,

1002
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: but she's worried she can't get the same type of

1003
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: job she has now. She doesn't know what to do

1004
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 2: for this call. You decided to speak in an outrageously bad,

1005
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 2: vaguely Eastern European accent. You sound like Lady Dracula. You

1006
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: flip a tarot card on the rug and you say

1007
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 2: it to the color. Oh no, that's an interesting spread.

1008
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: What does it say? The caller asked, eager. You take

1009
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: your time answering, since your main goal is to keep

1010
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: this collar on the line as long as you can.

1011
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: You pet your purring cat and wait for a moment

1012
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: before you say.

1013
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 5: The cards are there's the lovers, there's a harmit and death.

1014
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 5: They are very powerful cards.

1015
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: But what does it mean?

1016
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: The car eagerly wonders, as your cat swats at the

1017
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: terror cards.

1018
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 5: You say, the cards show me you're very sensitive and

1019
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 5: carrict person.

1020
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: You attend to your loved ones very well.

1021
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 5: I am.

1022
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1023
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 5: The caller agrees, you reply, but this makes you very

1024
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 5: critical of yourself.

1025
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: Yes, that's so true. The caller again is quick to

1026
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: agree as you refill your glass of crystal light.

1027
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 5: This draw cards tells me you very recently missed out

1028
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 5: on opportunities in life because of uncertainty.

1029
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: You have one personal level. Yes, I definitely have. The

1030
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: caller says, you're telling her what she wants to hear.

1031
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: Is that so wrong? You think to yourself, and then

1032
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: you hear yourself say what.

1033
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 5: I see in the cards? As you need to learn

1034
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 5: to trust yourself again, this is very important. This draw

1035
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 5: tells me if you adopt trust, you'll get closer to

1036
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 5: your dreams.

1037
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: One of the cards is the Lovers. That seems good,

1038
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: but the last card is death. Is that bad? The

1039
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: caller asks, you have to fight back a laugh. It's

1040
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: a good question, though you mentally scrambled to think of

1041
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: a reasonable answer. Then it comes to you.

1042
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 5: The lover's card is very good, and the mental cards,

1043
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 5: the hermit cards, speaks to where.

1044
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: You are now. You are the lovers and the hermit.

1045
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: But what does the death card mean? Is my relationship

1046
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: not gonna work out? You quickly say no, no, death

1047
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: is what that just means. Change, So I should move

1048
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 2: across country to be with them. Your cat purrs as

1049
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: you think, you don't know quite what to say. You're

1050
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: trying to avoid the answer, so you say what the

1051
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: card is shown doesn't make it clear. I see if

1052
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: you upset allder of things, what you get is what's

1053
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: important to you. That's not an answer, You suck. I

1054
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: want to talk to miss Cleo. Your no, Miss Cleo.

1055
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: The caller hangs on. You go back to petting your

1056
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: purring cat as you wait for your next call. But

1057
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: you did just make three dollars.

1058
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: This is how it sound like I should be like

1059
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 4: part of Angelica Houston's family.

1060
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: In John I was kind of also imagining the Rocky

1061
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: and Bullwinkle Natasha exactly. Now. This is what probably at

1062
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: first seemed like a fun, random job for most of

1063
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: these people. Young people were like, Oh, I get to

1064
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: just talk on the phone to strangers and then all

1065
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: of a sudden, it's like, I gotta do this every day,

1066
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 2: and the job will start to eat at you. Right,

1067
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: And if you do a job like this, it eventually

1068
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: erodes at your sense of self. Or, as Bennett Madison

1069
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: put it, our customers were desperate and sad. They were

1070
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: being evicted, they were about to lose custody of their children.

1071
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: They were lonely enough to pay by the minute to

1072
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: chat with a stranger. The fact that the stranger was

1073
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: me began to seem cruel. Yeah, no kidding. So by

1074
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: two thousand and two, folks across the country start to

1075
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: complain to authorities that they were feeling cheated, taking advantage

1076
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 2: of defrauded of their heart and income. There is one

1077
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: caller that I found in a newspaper story, Tracy Simms.

1078
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: She received a bill for three hundred dollars right for

1079
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: psychic services. She calls the company to contest what she

1080
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: considers a fraudulent bill. She didn't ever remember calling the

1081
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: psychic hotline. When she's calls, she's told to ignore the

1082
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: bill and she's like, okay, fine. Then she receives another

1083
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: bill because when she called them, she called the one

1084
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: nine hundred.

1085
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 3: Numbers they charged her.

1086
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 2: She called back to complain again. That time the service

1087
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: rep argues with her and hung up on her. Yes,

1088
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: So after that she looks up the psychic reader's network online.

1089
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: She finds that she's not alone and feeling cheated by them,

1090
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people are complaining about these

1091
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: fake phone psychics. In fact, there are so many people

1092
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: complaining about how they feel cheated, defraud and mistreated that

1093
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: they're filing complaints with the Federal Trade Commission. The Federal

1094
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: Trade Commission is getting hundreds of these complaints. Wow, So

1095
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: finally they're like, Okay, once we cross two hundred, I

1096
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 2: guess we got to act or whatever it was two

1097
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: thousand and two, the Federal Trade Commission, it springs into action.

1098
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: Not only did they not care that Miss Cleo was

1099
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: a real psychic or not. That wasn't their concern at all.

1100
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: All they cared about was the deceptive advertising. Because when

1101
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo told the viewers call me now, she told

1102
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 2: her callers to use a free one eight hundred number, right,

1103
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: and then they switch it to the one nine hundred

1104
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: and they start charging them five dollars a minute and

1105
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: they get kept on the line sometimes, as they said,

1106
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: as long as an hour and then right and they

1107
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: hit an hour, they just disconnect, even if they were

1108
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: in the middle of talking. Yeah, because they would get

1109
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars or the gut's good to go.

1110
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 3: They didn't want to just keep racking.

1111
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: No, I don't know why I found that interesting. Yeah,

1112
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: So after their investigation in two thousand and two, the

1113
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: Federal Trade Commission charges the Florida cousins, Steve Fader and

1114
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: Peter Stoltz with deceptive advertising billing collection practices. By this point,

1115
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: the company is charged, as they said, a billion dollars,

1116
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: but they have a five hundred million of outstanding unpaid

1117
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: charges that they're just waiting to collect on at this

1118
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: point when they get caught by the Federal Trade Commission.

1119
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: So the FTC's like, you ain't getting that money. Yeah, yeah,

1120
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: you're gonna give us some money. So they had then

1121
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 2: you're gonna give those nice people back their money. So

1122
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: they had to pay back the five hundred million, They

1123
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: had to cancel the five hundred million that they'd already gotten,

1124
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: and they had to pay five million dollars on top

1125
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 2: of all that as a whole I'm sorry kind of

1126
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: like fine, yeah, now if you're keeping a score at home,

1127
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: Miss Cleo not indicted, good, yes, but she was. But

1128
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: she was finally revealed to be a fake in Jamaican.

1129
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: So in March of two thousand and two, the website

1130
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: The Smoking Gun, Oh yeah, yeah, I remember them right,

1131
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: they posted documents obtained by the Attorney General Florida because

1132
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 2: meanwhile a bunch of states had been suing this company.

1133
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: So they have all these there's like lawsuits in like

1134
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 2: all over the country. So Florida, Sunshine State, you get.

1135
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: You can now find out what they are able to

1136
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: generate in their lawsuit. So the Psychic Reader's Network and

1137
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: the Florida cousins, this all comes out and then Miss

1138
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: Cleo it comes out as a California native born in

1139
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: Los Angeles on August twelfth, nineteen sixty two. Her parents

1140
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 2: also not from Jamaica. They were from California and Texas. Yes,

1141
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: so after this everything goes could put for the Psychic

1142
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: Readers in two thousand and two, but this Cleo not

1143
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: done because in two thousand and five she went back

1144
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: on TV doing ads as Miss Cleo, doing ads for

1145
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: a local used car dealership in Florida, a little bit

1146
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: of a fall, But after that she decides I'll lay low.

1147
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: She tries to let the world kind of move on,

1148
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 2: forget all about her and her fake and jim A

1149
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: can act right. Two thousand and seven, she releases a

1150
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: spoken word album, not a Elizabeth, not a Grammy Award winner.

1151
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 4: I'm so surprised because every other spoken word album does

1152
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 4: souch well on the charts.

1153
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: You're always recommended it to me.

1154
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all at one time, competing with each other.

1155
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 2: I don't have anything bad against the fact in my family,

1156
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 2: I've got spoken word artists. I mean, like, I can't

1157
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 2: really like besmirch them, but go make some money.

1158
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah no, you don't say, well.

1159
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: I guess let me do a poetry chat book and

1160
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: my spoken word album. I'm buying that big house. Time

1161
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: moves on right. Twenty fourteen, she does a documentary called Hotline.

1162
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: It was as one of the major figures of the

1163
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 2: late nineties and early two thousands era of Hotline bling.

1164
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: She spoke candidly about her time as Miss Clea Right,

1165
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: and people were loving that. Then the next year, twenty fifteen,

1166
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 2: she tries to capitalize on her fame again. So she's like, oh,

1167
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm Miss Cleo. She gets a bunch of ads for

1168
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: French Toast Crunch with General Mills like national ads. But

1169
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: then the still operating Psychic Readers Network sued her and said,

1170
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 2: we own the character, Miss Cleo. Right, series of ads

1171
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 2: get shelved. She loses all of it.

1172
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: Right, what was it? Cinnamon toast Crunch serial.

1173
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: The French toast Crunch, It's like cinnamon toast scrunch. They

1174
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: had a new flavor, French toast scrunch.

1175
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 3: So okay, yeah, I don't.

1176
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 2: Know what that has to do with it. Jim making psychic,

1177
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: But there you go. The world didn't see this come.

1178
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: In, No, nobody did so Sadly.

1179
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 2: The next year, twenty sixteen, mis Cleo passes away age

1180
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 2: fifty three. Yeah wow yeah, from cancer. After her passing,

1181
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: there was a documentary made about her that the titles

1182
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: called call Me Miss Cleo. And there's a charming thread

1183
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: that runs through the documentary because the thread is this

1184
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: love that all these folks felt from his Cleo. I'm

1185
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: talking like the real woman. She was loved by her family,

1186
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 2: her friends, colleagues, college roommates, not people in the Seattle theaters.

1187
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: But these people, they all get choked up as they

1188
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: remembered her like She clearly was a very real and loving,

1189
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: caring person. And the one thing I loved about her

1190
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: personally is how she fully committed to the bit, how

1191
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 2: she became Miss Cleo. Years later, after she's been debunked,

1192
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: she's still giving an interview in Patois Device. I love

1193
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: that now, despite all the bad psychic advice she gave out,

1194
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 2: all the lives she affected, all the frauds she committed.

1195
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: I want to forgive her. I want to say it

1196
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: was a different time or something, but it wasn't. It

1197
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: was pretty much just like now. She knew what she

1198
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: was doing. She knew it was a lie. So the

1199
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 2: question I'm really left with is is can a lie

1200
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: ever be a good thing?

1201
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: Sure?

1202
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: Like not like a white lie to protect someone's feelings,

1203
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 2: which I think can be a good sometimes, But I

1204
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: mean like a lie that misleads, like makes someone believe

1205
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 2: a false reality. Can a misleading lie ever be a

1206
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: good thing if it makes someone feel better?

1207
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 3: I think so.

1208
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is hurt.

1209
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I mean she wasn't. She was

1210
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 4: She knew what she was doing, but she didn't reap

1211
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 4: the benefits of it.

1212
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: No, she really exploited. She wasn't definitely a victim. But

1213
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: I was saying, but the lie she was telling that

1214
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: these people who were calling in doing their dollar store therapy,

1215
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 2: was it a good thing that she was telling them,

1216
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 2: like you can look out for you girls. Yeah, lie,

1217
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 2: That part wasn't the lie, but the rest of the

1218
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: part was. It's mixed in so either. I rarely think

1219
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: lying is good, but in this case, I think that

1220
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: we do tell ourselves all sorts of pleasing fictions all

1221
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: the time. Right, Is it wrong if we outsource that

1222
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,479
Speaker 2: to someone and pay someone to tell us the same?

1223
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 6: Please?

1224
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: Exactly? But Ben and Madison will get back to her.

1225
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: The New York Times piece, she said, and I quote,

1226
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: I know better than anyone else that Miss Cleio was

1227
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: a fake. But I always kind of believed in her anyway.

1228
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: And it seems like many of us that we want

1229
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 2: to believe it, and it sucks when people leverage that

1230
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: desire and use it against us to defraud us and

1231
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: so forth. But like, and so that's why I am

1232
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: more of my anger in this story at the Florida cousins,

1233
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: and I ever do it Miss Cleio, Right, because we

1234
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: want Miss Cleio's in our life. We know she's probably fake.

1235
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 2: We don't care. We just don't want to be cheated

1236
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: to get the miss QUI do.

1237
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 3: You want some sort of magic in your life?

1238
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know exactly, Miss Cleio innocent.

1239
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 3: I have zero anger for her, everything for the cousins.

1240
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, by the way, the Florida cousins, Steve Fader

1241
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,959
Speaker 2: and Peter Stultz are still at it. In fact, best

1242
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: I can tell, Peter Stultz may be the owner of

1243
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 2: the website sugar Daddy for me. So he's still out

1244
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 2: there making money exploiting young desperate women looking to improve

1245
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: their lives. So we questionable means, so boom. That's a

1246
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: ridiculous takeaway here, Liza.

1247
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 4: I was going to go on a rant, but my

1248
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 4: new ridiculous takeaway is that I was told that if

1249
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 4: you say you can in an Australian accent, you're saying

1250
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 4: bacon in a Jamaican accent.

1251
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 2: It's true, you can, exactly.

1252
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 3: There you go, that's my takeaway. What's your takeaway?

1253
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 2: My ridiculous takeaway is I didn't think I could pull

1254
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 2: that Jamaican accent off that line, and I wasn't thinking

1255
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: about it right, just boom Era was anyway, I just

1256
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 2: I just have fun with it. Forgive forgive me, Jamaicans.

1257
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: It was nos Trent. I gotta go listen to Russ.

1258
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: That's cute being a cute producer. Do you got a

1259
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 2: talkback for us?

1260
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 8: Oh my god, I love get.

1261
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 6: Hey guys, you mentioned the name of a politician from

1262
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 6: the eighties on a recent episode who sounded familiar to me,

1263
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 6: and I was hoping it sounded familiar because it was

1264
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 6: the same guy my husband had told me a ridiculous

1265
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 6: fact about. But it wasn't. I thought you'd enjoy the

1266
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 6: fact anyway. Former Secretary of State George P. Schultz has

1267
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 6: a tattoo of a tiger on his rear, and his

1268
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 6: wife said that when the children were young, they used

1269
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 6: to run up and touch it and he would growl

1270
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 6: and they would run away.

1271
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 4: So that's uf I've heard that.

1272
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 2: I've never heard that.

1273
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 5: Man.

1274
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 2: I got a picture George Schultz's rear.

1275
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 3: The tiger on his rear.

1276
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: Love that tiger in his tank. Well, as always, you

1277
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: can find us online ridiculous crime on the social media

1278
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: is that's mostly Blue Sky and Instagram these days, we

1279
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: also have our website ridiculous Crime dot com. It has

1280
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: most recently been nominated for Country of the Year So

1281
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: from the United Nations exactly that I just made up.

1282
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 2: So emails if you like the Ridiculous Crime at gmail

1283
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: dot com. We always love to hear from you, and

1284
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 2: you can get onto the iHeart app record a talkback

1285
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 2: and maybe hear your voice here. Thanks for listening. We

1286
00:56:52,840 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: will catch you next crime. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1287
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Utton and Zaron Burnette, produced and edited by the

1288
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: man who put the plastic on Dion Warwick's furniture, Dave Kustin,

1289
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: and starring Annale rutger Is Judah. Research is by a

1290
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 2: resident fake soussayer, Mistress Marissa Brown and the psychic Warlock

1291
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: Alex French. Our theme song is by Miss Cleo's Jamaican

1292
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: Jerke Chicken dealers Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. The host

1293
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 2: wardrobe provided by Bobby five hundred. Guest hair and makeup

1294
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: by Sparkle Shop and Mister Andre. Executive producers are Ben

1295
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: you know I'm a little psychic Bowlin and Noel Well,

1296
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 2: I'm a big psychic browns QUI say it one more time.

1297
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts

1298
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or

1299
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.