1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So we're gonna dig into 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: crypto in the next thirty minutes here on Bloomberg Business Week. 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: First up, the CEO of Colonial Pipeline, Joseph Blown. He 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: was testifying for the Senate Homeland Security Committee today. He 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: apologize big time for the ransomware attack that shuttered the 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: nation's largest fuel pipeline. We know it paralyzed the East 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: coast flow of gasoline, diesel, and jet field check it out. 17 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: It was the hardest decision I've made in my thirty 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: nine years in the energy industry, and I know how 19 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: critical our pipeline is to the country, and I put 20 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: the interests of the country first. I kept the information 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: closely held because we were concerned about operational safety and security, 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: and we wanted to stay focused on getting the pipeline 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: back up and running. I believe with all my heart 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: it was the right choice to make a major maya 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: colpa there. Of course, that's the Colonial Pipeline CEO Joseph 26 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Blount testifying earlier today before the Senate Homeland Security Security Committee. 27 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: Let's get right into it with card cam Rotra cybersecurity 28 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: porter here at Bloomberg News joining us on the line 29 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: from San Francisco, Cardike, what do we learn from the 30 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: CEO of Colonial Pipeline today about the ransomware attack that 31 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: we didn't know? So? One of the biggest details about 32 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: this hack, something that he disclosed today but also disclosed 33 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: to us UH late last week, is that the actual 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: attack was the result of a stolen password for a 35 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: an account into a VPN that had been hacked and 36 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: and put on the dark web months at So it 37 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: was it was not a complex campaign. There wasn't a 38 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, a solar wind type of vulnerability here that 39 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: resulted in this UH devastating attack. It was a very simple, uh, 40 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: loss of a password that resulted in this exploitation and 41 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: ultimately the four point four million dollar ransom payment that 42 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: we all learned yesterday, much of which was caused that. Okay, 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: so I have to just just jump in here, Carter K. 44 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Because I know you're a cybersecurity reporter. I assume that 45 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: you know how to keep your accounts secure at least 46 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: as as we can as consumers. Two factor authentication, Can 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: we talk about that for a second. Yeah, I mean 48 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: there was no multi factor authentication on that particular VPN, 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: that virtual private network, So that is that is sort 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: of ground zero for security right now. Enterprise networks, corporate networks, 51 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: your personal accounts, you should turn on multi factor authentication. 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: It means that a single password is not enough for 53 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: you to log into your device. You need a one 54 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: time password or a second form of verification to ensure 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: that you are who you are when you're logging in. 56 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: It'll keep everyone a lot safer, all right. But now 57 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: we've got blockchain explorers. We're talking about this a lot, right, 58 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: A crypto search engine essentially to quite literally follow the 59 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: money of these things. Does this mean we now have 60 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: the tools to kind of investigate any future cyber attacks 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: here that require ransomware sort of. Uh, it sort of 62 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: means that, so, yes, the technology has existed to track 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: some currencies in uh blockchain. Bitcoin for sure can be tracked, 64 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: especially by law enforcement and in some private company that 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: specialized in this UM. So if you know exactly how 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: much was paid, be it a criminal transaction or you 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: sending money to your family member, you can go and 68 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: follow the money, literally follow the money. Uh. And that's 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: what law enforcement did after UM Colonial Pipeline paid dark Side, 70 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: a ransomware group four point four million dollars or seventy 71 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: five bit coin UM about a month ago. They followed 72 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: the money and we're able to see exactly where it 73 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: was parked in a digital crypto wallet and take some 74 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: of it back UM. And that's a big deal, and 75 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: that's something that law enforcement has done in the past. 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: But what unique here is that is that the actual 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 1: victim Colonial Pipeline disclosed the fact that they had been hacked, 78 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: and that does not happen very often. Victims of ransomware 79 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: don't want the public to know they've been compromised because 80 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: of a variety of security issues. Board issues, DOT price issues, 81 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: and so they keep it quiet. In this case, Colonial 82 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: came out and said it. They got the help of 83 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: the FBI, they got some of their money back. So 84 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: does this undermine the crypt a world as we've come 85 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: to know it, at least the kind of illegitimate or 86 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: you know where there might be UM cyber attacks and 87 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: ransomware incidents. I don't know undermine might be strong, But 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: I think there's definitely an issue about the economic backbone 89 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: of cybercrime, and that is cryptocurrency. For sure, there are regulation, 90 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: not just in the US, but but in Europe. Know 91 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: your Consumer regulations that would require or do require UM 92 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: people on exchanges to share some details about who you are. 93 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: They're just really administered. If one knows who is investing 94 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: or buying cryptocurrency at a certain period of time, that 95 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: would make it easier for law enforcement to follow criminals 96 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: who are using it to commit cybercrime. I think the 97 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: fundamental issue here isn't the use of cryptocurrency to promote cybercrime, 98 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: and the fact that cybercriminals have been able to target 99 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: poorly protected networks for years and have made off like 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: gangbusters for quite some time and are getting more brazen 101 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: in their campaign. Well, Cardig, just in the last thirty seconds, 102 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: what are you hearing in your reporting, seeing your reporting 103 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: hearing from sources about the way that cybersecurity companies and 104 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: CSOs are are reacting to this in the last month 105 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: and how they're preparing for the next one. Well, I 106 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: think the reality is that what we're seeing now is 107 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: what these security companies have been dealing with four years. 108 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: What's changed is that the Colonial Pipeline had allowed the 109 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: general public to understand what the state when gas supplies 110 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: for the for the Northeast were cut off for a 111 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: period of time, finally resonated with the public and now 112 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: we know what's happening. Hopefully utilities, the government companies are 113 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: going to prioritize it's going for and if you've got crypto, 114 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: a bit of put it in a cold wallet. That's 115 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: all we're gonna say. Cardig Marotra, thank you so much. 116 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: Cybersecurity reporter at Bloomberg News on the phone in San Francisco, 117 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: mikel Cologne, Commodity Strategies at Bloomberg Intelligence. He's been on 118 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: the road. He's back home here in our interactive broker studio. 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: Hello there, Hello, Carol, you guys are the dream team. Okay, 120 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: we're not gonna argue with that crypto though kind of 121 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: not the dream currencies. It feels like today they're down 122 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: a lot of them. You were at this big event 123 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: in Miami set the stage of what was going on, well, 124 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: I like to describe it was like a woodstock because 125 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: this kind of conference will never be repeated. It was 126 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: the first big conference on the planet where there was 127 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: no no masks. Everybody was there and the subject was 128 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: quite unique Bitcoin. So it was that sense. There was 129 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: packed wall the wall the main ex main presentation room. 130 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: They were pushing people away standing room only. And then 131 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: when you walk into the ex you know the exhibit 132 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: room where you have all the desks and everything you 133 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: can right away you walk and you feel that heat 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: of people and it's hard to get through, and then 135 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: the lines of the man's room or forever. But there 136 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: was that sentiment all about there's so many people doing 137 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: good and so I get the thought, Okay, is this 138 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: the peak or is this mainstream? In my sense, it's 139 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: more mainstream now we see it down today. But there 140 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: were so many cool things that really came of it 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: that we can touch on yeah, Well, what was it 142 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: specifically about the conference that made you think it was 143 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: more mainstream than peak? The people I met and with. 144 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: So I walked by one of my friends and you're 145 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: standing next to a guy who from a major accounting firm. 146 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: And then I met, you know, someone I knew who 147 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: used to be in eats, and another one and another 148 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: group I met were was a trust bank, so trust bank, 149 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: a t F and account and then a lot of miners. 150 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: I met with a lot of miners, and some of 151 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: them are some of the most respectable people I've ever met. 152 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: One of them was a minor our Palli and then 153 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: this he got into bitcoin only because he needed his 154 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: his his position was providing power and energy and he 155 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: needed the manager at flow and when it access power, 156 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: he said, okay, I'll just use bitcoin to offset that. 157 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: Mining Bitcoin offs as that excess power. So what what 158 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: where does it go? In your view? We've had the 159 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: conversations about it being a collectible, right, We've talked about that. 160 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: So where does it go? Is it that we have 161 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: multiple cryptocurrencies, is it again about blockchain? Where do you 162 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: see it all going? To me, that's the key thing 163 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: in the conference. Bitcoin is a collectible and then there's 164 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: ten thousand wantabes um there is oncoin market cap docount 165 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: actually ten thousand three three at the moment um U last. 166 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: So there you go, massive excess of supplyees of entry. 167 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: Rules of economics does not favorite higher prices. But it's 168 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: the number two that I liked, bringing up a lot 169 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: of THEORYM. You know, that's that lesson from Frederick Douglas. 170 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: You say, just agitate, So I tried to agitate, and 171 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: behind the scenes everybody mentioned the THEORYUM, so it was 172 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: all positive about it. But on the stage it wasn't 173 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: a good idea that mentioned because it was all about bitcoin. 174 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: So that's the cool thing about bitcoin. It's you know, 175 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: it's banking, the un bank, the key quota of the conferences. 176 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: You know, two thirds of the people on the planet 177 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: don't have bank accounts. Of them have cell phones or 178 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: smartphones and they can get bitcoin cryptos on their phones. 179 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: And what's happening lately with this you know what you 180 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: saw with this UM finding these funds from the colonial Like, 181 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: that's nothing new, and I can dig into that. Like 182 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: the MC of the conference he got into initially got 183 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: into bitcoin from buying drugs, on Silk Road, which was 184 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: busted by the FEDS because they just tracked the transactions. 185 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: But this is what got all the attention when it 186 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: came to the cryptocurrency. Mike you you in your report 187 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: outlining this event, summarizing this event, you asked the question 188 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: what problem does bitcoin solve? What was the answer that 189 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: you found in potentially how it changed at the conference? 190 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: That was a question I have answered distinctly um with 191 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: answer at first with I go straight to the British Museum. 192 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: I think of the hack SNeW Hord's one of my 193 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: favorite things that visit there. It's the largest horde of 194 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: precious metals I ever found on the planet. It was 195 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: from the Roman times. It fixtured yourself and you're a 196 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: Roman leader. It's collapsing. The locals don't like you need 197 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: to get out and hide your wealth. They never came 198 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: back to find it, and you figure, I figured he 199 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: probably didn't moon that light at night, and he probably 200 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: he had to do it himself. Because if you have 201 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,599 Speaker 1: a servant to it, a servant only to find it 202 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: come back and tell someone else or kill you know 203 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: you kept it. But the point is it's set wealth 204 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: to be able to transmit, transport and transact in wealth 205 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: a certain amount of and put it stored someplace. Seven 206 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: be able to do it on a cell phone or 207 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: on a phone or in your head. It's never been 208 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: possible in time. So that's the problem solves. It's banking 209 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: the end bank. So here's the latest to leave you with. 210 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: L Salvador has already said they might adopted as a currency. 211 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: Know what's happening in al Savador in the last thirty 212 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: wars currency collapses. Yeah, if you have something to confce against, 213 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: like bitcoin is like a goal, not like a dollar, 214 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: then it can help solve that problem ten seconds. So 215 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: at some point in our life, will we all have 216 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: some bitcoin in our portfolio or what have your access 217 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: to it? I think so? I think so because if 218 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: we don't, it's kind of it's kind of like a 219 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: digital version of gold and the world's going digital and 220 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: bitcoin is the first in that space. Oh my god, 221 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: can you just stay for like another sixty minutes tomorrow 222 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: to be continued. Mike mclowan commodity strategies of Bloomberg Intelligence 223 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: in our Interactor Broker studio. So, as Tim and I 224 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top, it feels like our digital world 225 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: continues to get poked at me, get reminded of the 226 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: potential holes in that world. Doesn't it feel that way? 227 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: And it's certainly felt that way at about six am 228 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: this morning. Well let's talk about that. Yeah, so, I 229 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: as as anyone who is online earlier today trying to 230 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: go to any common website might have found that they 231 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: were unable to reach that website in New York tites 232 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,599 Speaker 1: like New York Times, our own Bloomberg dot com was 233 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: affected by this. In fact, British government websites affected by 234 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: it as well. Yeah, so let's get into this because vastly, 235 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: which helps push data quickly around the Internet, so that 236 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: it had fixed the issue that caused that global outage. 237 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: And I just think we're learning more about we just 238 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: take so many things for granted. So let's bring in 239 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: why we maybe shouldn't. Uh, Bloomberg Intelligence senior technology Analysmandie saying, uh, 240 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: let's see what he has to say about He's back 241 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: in our interactive broker's studio, So nice to have you 242 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: in studio. So I just take it for granted. I 243 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: go online if there's not a problem. I think there's 244 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: something wrong with my phone or my service. This was different. 245 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: What happened, well, in this case, it was an outage. 246 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: An outage could be caused by a number of reasons. 247 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: It could be you know, them making a code change 248 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: which they moved to production and that cause an outage, 249 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: or it could be a breach, or you know, any 250 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: sort of a cyber attack. I mean, we've seen so 251 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: many different types of attacks that at this point it's 252 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: hard to say that, you know, one company has a 253 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: software that can protect you against all kinds of attacks, 254 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: and that is what we're seeing. Well, who is fastly? 255 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: What is fastly? Do so fastly is like uh an 256 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: interphase that lives between the website you're trying to access, 257 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: Let's say a Pinterest or an Amazon dot com. So 258 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: this is a cashing service that sits between the user 259 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: when they requested you are and they basically authenticate the 260 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: user to say this is not a box, this is 261 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: a real user. This is somebody who's trying to access Amazon, 262 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: and it's a legitimate user based on the IP address. 263 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: Now what they do is they have these data centers 264 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: across the bold, so no matter where you are accessing 265 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: website from, they will make sure you will have a 266 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: good experience. Even if you are somewhere in Africa or 267 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: you know, Brazil or any other country, you will have 268 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: the same kind of experience because they have data centers 269 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: across the globe, which is why these popular platforms use 270 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: this cd AND service because of the cashing mechanism, the 271 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: security it keeps it secured well. I think one thing 272 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: that was particularly striking about this morning's outage was the 273 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: fact that it was so widespread. Why did it affect 274 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: websites that range that don't normally go down, but range 275 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 1: from government websites to to media property. So the websites 276 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: didn't go down, it's just that when you were trying 277 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: to access the website, those websites weren't accessible because Fastly, 278 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: like I said, sits between the time when you try 279 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: to access a U r L to the time it 280 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: hits the server off that end website beat an Amazon 281 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: or a pinterest, So really the cashing field which is 282 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: why you couldn't access that website. But they were those 283 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: those websites became inaccessible because they used Fastly as a 284 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: client or they are clients of fastlies, right, they are 285 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: clients so fastly, so an easy way for us to 286 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: figure out who pays what cd N was to figure 287 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: out who was down this morning. Yes, that's one way 288 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: because these were the common thread was these all these 289 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: websites for using Fastly as a cd N, which is 290 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: why these websites became inaccessible. I do wonder about redundancy here, 291 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: and it's a question that I asked you earlier on picktape, 292 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: because you do wonder if something like this can take 293 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: down such a I shouldn't say takedown, make in unavailable 294 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: such a large number of websites, why isn't there redundancy 295 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: in place? So the redundancy can be Amazon or Pinterest 296 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: can say we want to use Fastly cd in as 297 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: well as cloud Flare or any other CD AND provider 298 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,239 Speaker 1: because Fastly it is just one of the cd and providers. 299 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: Having redundancy within Fastly isn't going to solve the problem 300 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: Like Fastly obviously made a code change that affected their 301 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: entire city and service. Having I think something that was 302 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: redundant wouldn't have helped in this case. Yes, as a 303 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: large company you can use multiple cd and providers, but 304 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: then at the end of the day you have to 305 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: judge like them based on the up time. So in 306 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: this particular case, if you are using one CD and 307 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: which is fastly, you can't use an alternative seed and 308 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: you can flip the switch, but it's gonna take time. 309 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: You can't have to going at the same time, basically 310 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: what you're saying, So it's like a backup battery. You 311 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: still have to make the switch will take time, so 312 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: you will have a thirty second or one minute outage 313 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: at least, you know, or if not half an hour, 314 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: which was the case here. It doesn't feel like that 315 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: this kind of incident an outage happens often, is that fair? 316 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: So cloud Flare, which is a competitor or fastly, also 317 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: had a similar outage last year and that was just 318 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: a one off. So after that, no one cared about 319 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: hit a button wrong. Somebody was drinking coffee and like 320 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: spilled it on a button. What these companies make changes 321 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: through their code literally every week. Now, you don't know, 322 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: because we're in an environment where you know, things are 323 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: so interconnected that developers don't always realize what they're changing. 324 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: And you know, in this case, I'm sure there will 325 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: be a post mortem as to why that code was moved. 326 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: It just seems like a major like I mean, these 327 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: are major sites. Yeah. I mean I'm not just saying 328 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: because it's Bloomberg major site though too. But I mean 329 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about the UK government, We're talking about the like, 330 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: these are things that people just expect to be well. 331 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: I was watching the equity market reaction as this was 332 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: playing out, and in pre market trading, Fastly was taken 333 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: a serious tumble. I mean it was down four or 334 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: five at a certain point. You look right now it's 335 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: higher by nine percent. What gives well in this case, 336 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: I think there's an acknowledgement from the investors that, look, 337 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: there are only three or four companies that provide the 338 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: CD AND service, and today didn't we they're running critical infrastructure. 339 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: So suddenly everyone knows about Fastly. Previously Fastly was in 340 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: the background. It was a background service that no one 341 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: really it wasn't a household name. Suddenly it is, and 342 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: it's providing a very important service. It reminds me of 343 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 1: I remember the Bloomberg story years ago where people were like, 344 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: if you were streaming I want to say, I don't know, Sopranos, 345 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: what it was you were streaming such and such last 346 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: night watching it? You were doing it through an Amazon server, like, 347 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we learned about Amazon Web services 348 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: in just the streaming world, and I feel like that's 349 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: what's happening with fast because you said there's only three 350 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: or four companies that do this. Yes, yes, and look, 351 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, an outage can happen 352 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: to any company. It happened to Netflix, it happened to Amazon. 353 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: I think in this case they fixed it quickly. I'm 354 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: sure they will have to give a reason as to 355 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: what happened, but most likely it will be a co 356 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: change and investors will move on and they say they'll 357 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: be like, yeah, this is important in deep We talked 358 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: about the Colonial pipeline hacker earlier today on on this show, 359 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people's brains went right 360 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: to a hack. What does that say about the environment 361 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: that we're in right now. There's a lot of state 362 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: sponsored activity going on, given you know what's going on 363 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: with China, Russia, and these hackers are very sophisticated. They've 364 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: got deep pockets, so they are trying to find every 365 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: possible vulnerability point and we should know if there's no 366 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: indication at this point that this was any sort of 367 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: nefarious activity. This one, this one. Yeah, we don't know. 368 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: I think the company will come out if there was 369 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: a hack, they will come out. Otherwise, you know, you 370 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: will see a big tumble off this for the stock. 371 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: Yeah right, I was just gonna say, we still don't 372 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: know exactly what happened, or if again somebody's build a 373 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: cup of coffee or you know, um fascinating world we're 374 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: living in. Like I said, it just feels like our 375 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: digital world. It's like poking holes or maybe we're getting 376 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: a clearer picture of how it all works. Mandy, Thank 377 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: you explain it all so well. Mandyep saying, we senior 378 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: tech industry analysta Bloomberg Intelligence in our interactive broker studio. 379 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: Wild world. Huh, wild world. All right, it is time 380 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: for the Bloomberg Big Take. It's on our radar Biogen's 381 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: news tim of the FDA granting approval of the company's 382 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: Alzheimer's drug, and it looks like, man, there's some longer 383 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: term repercussions out of this. Yeah, there certainly are joining 384 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: us now is Bob Langred, healthcare reporter for Bloomberg News. 385 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: He joins us on the phone from New Jersey. So, Bob, 386 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: for people who haven't been following this space as closely 387 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: as you have. Take us back a couple of years 388 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: about the at that Biogen made on the drug that 389 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: was approved by regulators yesterday. Yeah, so all you know, 390 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: researchers have been trying to design a drug to a 391 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: target the pathology behind Alzheimer's disease UH for decades, and 392 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: drug after drug after drug has failed. Uh. And Biogen's 393 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: drug just two years ago it looked like just the 394 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: latest in a long line of failure as they stopped 395 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: their trials earlier they said they didn't look like they 396 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: were going to work. And then eight months later they 397 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: shocked everyone. Uh, they said they reanalyzed the data and 398 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: looked like one of the trials that might have worked, 399 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: and we're gonna apply for approval. Change our mind, We're 400 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: gonna apply for approval, and we think we get this 401 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: drug approved. And then it's been super controversial since then, 402 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: and uh, there's a lot of debate whether this drug works. 403 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: But yesterday you have after they approved it, and then 404 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: the Biogen priced at at a very high price. Uh, 405 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: and now there's gonna be a lot of controversy going forward. 406 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: Who should get this drug? And you know, whether it 407 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: works at all. Well, and you've been covering this what 408 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: Biogen has been up to with Alzheimer's. You also, for 409 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: those who are listeners and watchers of Bloomberg, you, Bob, 410 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: have been keeping us up to speed when it has 411 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: to do with COVID treatments and COVID vaccines. There's been 412 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: many cover stories by Bob Langreth at Business Week magazine. 413 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: What's interesting though about Biogen, Bob, is that it seems 414 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: to be as you, guys, and you specifically report that 415 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: the approval, the FDA approval appears to signal a fundamental 416 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: shift in the way the agency thinks about Alzheimer's disease 417 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: and this could have lasting ramifications, as you report for 418 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: other drugs, whether it's over at Eli, Lily Roche, and elsewhere. Yeah, 419 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: so uh. For for years, drug companies, including Biogen, have 420 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: been trying to prove that a drug for all the 421 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: timers would actually slow cognitive decline, and it's been really 422 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: really hard to do. No one's really gotten clear evidence, 423 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: and Biogen's drugs stare. Two trials didn't really prove it 424 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: either because one essentially failed to prove it. The other 425 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: was still controversial because it was stopped earlier that it 426 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: showed a very potentially very small effect and sing PD 427 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 1: in his decline, and no one could agree, you know, 428 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: what to make out of it. And so what happened 429 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: is the FDA has faked a lot of pressure from 430 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: patient groups, the Altimate Association to approve this drug. They're saying, 431 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: there's nothing out there, we need something, We're willing to 432 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: take someone uncertainty, accepts some uncertainty. What they decided to 433 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: do is they they essentially in a surprise, they did 434 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: not rule on a make a verdict on whether this 435 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: drug STOW causes decline or not. Basically that they said, 436 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: we're going to prove it because it removes these amyloid 437 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: plaques in the brain, change some of this changes some 438 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: of the fund fundamental pathology, and we think that that 439 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: is likely to have a reasonable expectation that will do 440 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: something good in terms of patient outcomes in the future, 441 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: but we're gonna have to wait for future trials to 442 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: prove that it does. So that was a big surprise. 443 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: That's a big change. It is a big change, and 444 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: a reasonable expectation that it will actually have a positive 445 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: result is not necessarily proof in a clinical trial that 446 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: it does. And I wonder how this changes the way 447 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: that the FDA approves therapies moving forward, especially at a 448 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: time where there's so much skepticism around federal agencies and 449 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: the wake of what happened with COVID. Yeah, so this, this, uh, this, 450 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: this approval is going to be very controversial. Uh. You know, 451 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: some people are already saying that that was a mistake. 452 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: Uh and uh, this could you know, I could set 453 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: a precedent for other kind of neurological disease, other neurological 454 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: drugs and other drugs are Alzheimers, because now they've said 455 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: for Alzheimers, you don't have to prove that the drugs 456 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: corgan's declined to get to get on the market. You 457 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: just have to show some evidence that does something to 458 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: brain fatholity, even though there's a great controversy whether that 459 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: brain pathology, how well it correlates with Corton has decline. Right, 460 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: that's it's a big deal. Right, So you know, not 461 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: a cure, we get that, right, But maybe in some ways, 462 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: like and you do wonder if the f d A 463 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: is kind of allowing a little bit of wiggle room 464 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: with some of these things because maybe there's a little 465 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: bit improvement or maybe there's a lot of improvement, you know, 466 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: or at least stemming the degradation, right, Bob, you know 467 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: in some patients. Yeah, So the way of think about this, 468 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: this is not a drug. Even in the absolute best 469 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: case under the you know, the optimistic projection, it will 470 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: not stop the decline. People are still declining steadily, but 471 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe it slows a little bit. Uh. And 472 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: that's what they're saying that that's what the Alzheimer's patients 473 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: that I talked to one they saying, you know, there's 474 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: nothing out there. We want something of this, you know, 475 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: may slow the decline a little bit, and this is 476 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: good enough. We're willing to take someone uncertainty to improve 477 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: it now. And that's what happened. It's very controversial and 478 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: very interesting. But it's funny because there's I'm going to 479 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: talk about a stock gain or later um cass of 480 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: A Sciences and they've had no products in the market 481 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: for twenty years, but apparently they're working on an early 482 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: stage Alzheimer's drug and I think are getting a bit 483 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: of a pop because of what happened, specifically with Biogen's drugs. 484 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: So it is making everybody look specially when it comes 485 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: to Alzheimer's, Bob, a little bit differently at the space 486 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: and in terms of treatments. Yeah, other stocks starting up 487 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: Ellally went up yesterday because they have a similar Alzheimer's 488 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: drug and just going into phase three trials. As they 489 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: went up on the prospects they might be able to 490 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,479 Speaker 1: get an approval sooner. So so no, no question there is, uh, 491 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: you know our potential lentifications you know across the industry, Bob, 492 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: fifty dollars for a course of this. It's just a 493 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: massive amount of money. Uh, what typically happens with the 494 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: drug price? Does it go down after a few years? 495 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: Just got about thirty seconds here. Now the drive prices 496 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean as far as as far as as far 497 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: as we can tell, basically never go down. They promised 498 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: not to raise it. But what I can say is 499 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: at least a million people in the US it could 500 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: theoretically qualifier the drug costs fifty dollars a year. Do 501 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: that math if everyone in that that theoretical group gets it. Wow, 502 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: and you talk about expensive brain scans and then to 503 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: administer the infusions, it's not an inexpensive process. Hey Bob, though, um, 504 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: thanks for just digging deeper into this to explain why. 505 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: Though it has been so significant, we've certainly seen the 506 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: stock pop yesterday, a little bit of a pullback in 507 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: today's trade when it comes to Biogen, but definitely watching it. 508 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Bob Lane Grew healthcare reporter up Bloomberg News on the 509 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: phone in New Jersey, roam a journal. Yeah, but you 510 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: let me drive? Oh no, no, no, he's home, honey, Please, 511 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive, just drive, baby, 512 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: the questions trying. This is the drive to the Globe commune. Thanks, 513 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: we'll drying us the dawn on Bloomberg Radio. Alright, TikTok everyone, thirteen, no, 514 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: not thirteen. Ten and a half minutes left. I was 515 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: adding a few minutes onto the trading day. Ten and 516 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: a half minutes left in today's trading day. It's kind 517 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: of a kind of day, not really going anywhere. So 518 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: let's see what Eric Jackson has to say. He's founder 519 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: and president of E m J Capital, to Toronto based 520 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: hedge fund, and he joins us on the phone in Toronto. 521 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: So good to have you back. How are you doing well? 522 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: How are you Carol doing well? Tim and I are 523 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: hanging in there. The world's reopening. We're trying to make 524 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: sense of here we are. We've got us stocks near 525 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: record You've got if you look at the global market industries, 526 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: we're hovering near records. How do you see this market 527 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: environment right now? Well, you guys are just talking about inflation, 528 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: and obviously everyone's waiting for a few you know, more 529 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: shoes to drop and to kind of better get a 530 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: sense of where things are going. But if you look 531 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: in the tech world specifically, we've had such a reduction 532 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: in a lot of the multiples across the tech universe 533 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: that you're really being um, you know, you're able to 534 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: get into a lot of names in tech at you know, 535 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: oftentimes pre pandemic multiples, so you're getting some protection no 536 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: matter kind of what happens through the through the rest 537 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: of the year, with with all the inflation data that comes. 538 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: So that's not that's not across the board. I think 539 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the staff stocks are still expensive, but 540 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: a lot of things are attractive, like like um, well 541 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: in general, you know, I think the fang names are 542 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: are definitely uh, they've sort of been in a one 543 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: year trade trading range UH, and there are multiples are 544 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: extremely low. I think I think they are all attractive. 545 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: I think UM for me, there are a few names 546 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: that I like. In particular, there's one stock which I 547 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: which I recently got into called Magnite. UH tooker as 548 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: m g n I and basically they serve up the 549 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: ads that go into connected TVs, which people are increasingly 550 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: turning to. UM. It's not just a Facebook in Google 551 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: world in terms of serving ads when you turn on 552 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: Roku or your Samsung TV or whatever. And so a 553 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: lot of people are familiar with a company called the 554 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: Trade Desk which does serves the same kind of ads 555 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: from the demand side, meaning they work with the agencies. 556 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: But Magnite is a sort of an amalgam of three 557 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: different companies that have been has been put put together 558 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: over the last year that works on the supply side, 559 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: and it trades that half the multiple UM. Eric you've 560 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: mentioned shoe dropping, other shoes dropping when it comes to inflation, 561 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: what would those be? Well, you know, obviously you know 562 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: we're speaking on a day when the ten years dropped. UM. 563 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: That's been you know, met, been met with a side 564 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: of relief. I think by a lot of tech investors. Um. 565 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,719 Speaker 1: You know, we got ourselves all you know, wound up 566 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: over the last month or so um for you know, 567 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: with fears that you know that the tenure was just 568 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: going to bust through. Uh, you know, two new highs 569 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: and above two percent, all this kind of stuff because 570 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: of some of the hot inflation numbers that we're seeing. 571 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: So you know, in the in the meantime, you know, 572 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: lumbers cooled off, some of the commodities are cooled off. 573 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: You know, that's good for tech obviously in these growth 574 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: stocks where you know you're you're you're looking out multiple 575 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: years and so forth. UM. And so we we just 576 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: need to continue to monitor, you know, where things go 577 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: from here. Is it really transitory inflation data? Um? Or 578 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: is it something more permanent? Hey, listen, One thing I 579 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: want to ask you is, let's cap on McCormick and 580 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: rich Or have a story on the Bloomberg and we're 581 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: gonna talk about it with our TV team and just 582 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: a moment on beyond the Bell. The economists who helped 583 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: change the way the FED assesses long run inflation expectations 584 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: says their current level means the central Bank needs to 585 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: start laying the groundwork for shrinking its massive bond buying program. 586 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: And this is specifically we're talking about Brian Sack. He 587 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: was at the FED Board of Governors almost two decades ago, 588 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: and he was head of Monetary and Financial Market Analysis. 589 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: He championed the use of a forward measure of inflation 590 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: expectations to help guide policy. He's now over at d SHAW. 591 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: He says, the so called five year, five year forward 592 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: break even inflation rate has climbed to a level where 593 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: further increases would be problematic for this central bank. So 594 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: when you have someone like that who really understands this, 595 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, created a tool used 596 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: by the FED to predict inflation or at least get 597 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: an idea of where it's going. And when he says 598 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: maybe it's time that the FED changes policy, how do 599 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: you factor something like that in. Here's a smart guy 600 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: who understands it, understands what's going on. Do you say, wait, 601 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: this is a different market environment or what? Well? I mean, 602 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: I think one of the interesting things, you go back 603 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, when people were really worried 604 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: about inflation across the equity universe. I think, uh, you know, 605 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, you could say that, you know, they feed 606 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: had given this language that they were going to stay 607 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: low for so long, and um, I think the concern 608 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: was that, you know, are are they really out of 609 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: step with other central banks around the world who are 610 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: starting to taper, And I you know, what's what's been 611 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: interesting is that, um, you know that that hasn't really changed, 612 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: but there's been a couple of statements that have come 613 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: out that have sort of talked about their openness to tapering. 614 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: And I think just the fact that that has gone 615 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: out there, along with you know, softer commodity inflation and 616 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: numbers and so forth, I think that's given people a 617 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: lot of comfort that, you know, the Fed's not out 618 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: of touch. They sort of see what's going on. They're 619 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: going to taper if they need to later this year, 620 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: and I think part of the reasons behind them the 621 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: tenure dropping has just been a comfort with that, with 622 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: the fact that they're not you know, that they don't 623 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: have their head in the stands. So, so, what happens 624 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: if we do start to see signs of inflation that 625 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: you think isn't necessarily transitory, what do you do specifically 626 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: to get defensive? Well, I mean inflation is not good 627 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: for for all any any stock really. I mean people 628 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: like to say, you know, get defensive, do this, do that, 629 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: and go into value. I mean all stocks will go 630 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: down if we're truly you know, back into this you know, 631 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: um permanent inflation era. So you know, I don't think 632 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: any of us want to see that, um you know. 633 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: And and there's obviously a big, you know, a big 634 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: spectrum between where we are now and something like that. Uh. 635 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: So I try to look for, um, you know, when 636 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm specifically looking at in the tech universe, tech stocks 637 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: are are most variable with inflation news and most prone 638 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: to as like big dramatic pullbacks. Uh And and really 639 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: that's that's why even though we're at market highs in 640 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: the one corner of the universe and in in stocks 641 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: that has really been hurt in the first half of 642 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: this year has been the growth tech area so much 643 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: so I think, you know, there are still a lot 644 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: of interesting um you know tech tech names that are 645 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: are more valueish plays and so um you know, I'm 646 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: looking looking at names like that. Uh And um you know, 647 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: cash is always a great position in those kinds of environments. 648 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: To heay one more minute left here. Um, we always 649 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: loved talking names with you. Hello Fresh, which is a 650 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: delivery service based over in Berlin. Uh you like them? 651 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: How come everyone says, you know, it's time to get 652 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: out of the pandemic stocks get into the value you know, 653 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: oriented stocks, Like that's sort of like a a cliche 654 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: these days. Um, you know. And if there ever was 655 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: a poster child for a pandemic stock, it was probably 656 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: Hello Fresh last year. As people stay at home and 657 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: they order these meal kids. But what's interesting is if 658 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: you is, if you go beneath the surface, Uh, this 659 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: is still a very uh you know, small, you know, 660 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: ptential market that's been penetrated in terms of US households 661 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: and global households who use these meal kits. And um, 662 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: they didn't have to do any marketing last year because 663 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: there was such high demand. Now you've probably you're probably 664 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: seeing their TV ads all over the place. Some people say, well, 665 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: it's not a sticky customer A lot turned out, that's true, 666 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: but a big chunk of those new customers that come 667 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: on board, um, you know about stick around for the 668 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: long haul. And this is a profitable business. It's just 669 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: getting started. They could move into adjacent meals and grocery 670 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: delivery areas as well. Very smart management team, Eric, very briefly, 671 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: even past pandemic, when we go out and we go 672 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: to the stores again and we go to restaurants, well, 673 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: you know they're, you know, right now, their competition is 674 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: are you going to pick up your meal at the 675 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: grocery store on the way home and cook, you know, 676 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: and heat up for yourself, or are you gonna go 677 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: out to dinner tonight or whatever. And you know a 678 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: lot of people are still going to have to you know, 679 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: get something for dinner on their way home. That's who 680 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: they really are going after all, right? Could I leave 681 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: it on that note? He always good to get some 682 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: time if you really appreciate it. Eric Jackson's founding president 683 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: of the E M J Capital, joining us on the 684 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: phone from Toronto. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. 685 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, 686 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: and you can also listen to our radio show at 687 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 688 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News