1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning Breakfast Club. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 2: Yes, the world most dangerous morning show to Breakfast Club 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 2: Charlamagne the God just hilarious and we had to step 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 2: out for a second. 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: But we have the great Malcolm Gladwell here this morning. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Good morning brother, good morning, Morning, Morning Morning. 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: He just released the six part series Our Revision is 8 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: History is Back. 9 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: What is the series about? 10 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 3: Man, It's about gun violence. Decided to do up an 11 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 3: sort of an extended look at what we're not talking 12 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 3: about when it comes to guns in this country, some 13 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 3: of them. It ranges all over the map. There's a 14 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 3: We started by making fun of the Supreme Court, which 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: is surprisingly easy to do. There's one there's this one 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 3: case that they had two years ago, which is this 17 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: big the New York City where they struck down a 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 3: New York state gun law that had been a place 19 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,319 Speaker 3: for one hundred years. And there's an exchange and they 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 3: tape you know, their or arguments. They tape them so 21 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 3: you can listen to them. There's an exchange where the 22 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: justices to the Justices Alito and Kavanaugh are arguing with 23 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: the lawyer for New York State and their their argument 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 3: is that we would all be better off if we 25 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 3: could carry handguns on the subway, And the lawyer for 26 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 3: New York State is like, basically, she's insane. Basically she's like, 27 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: have you ever ridden the subway? You know what a 28 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 3: gunfight on a subway would look like? And they're completely oblivious, 29 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: and so we I went on and on about this, 30 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 3: like imagining it's a bunch of guys. One of the 31 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 3: guy's alitos from like a rich kid from suburban New Jersey. 32 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 3: If he has ever ridden the subway in his life, 33 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: I'd be very surprised. Kavanaugh is like a rich kid 34 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: from suburban DC, like, you know, the closest he came 35 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: to the subway was his mom's minivan. And they're having 36 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: this surreal conversation with a legit think that if everybody 37 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 3: on the A train had a glock, we would be safer, 38 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: Like it's just like that level. So that's that's sort 39 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: of one of the early ones. And then tell a 40 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: bunch of about what I'm sorry about a crazy story about 41 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: a guy in Alabama who had a shooting in his 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 3: home and what happens when the ambulance doesn't come because 43 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 3: they think the the kid who got shot is black wow. 44 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: And and then I went the last one is the 45 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 3: one of the most moving ones' ever done. There's a guy, 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: an er doc at the University of Chicago Hospital cut 47 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 3: up called up Della Price and grew up on the 48 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: South Side, but goes to med school and then practices 49 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: on the South Side. And that's, you know, obviously one 50 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: of the epicenters of gun violence in this country. I mean, 51 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 3: I just sat down with him. I went Chicago. I 52 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: sat down with him and he's start of talking about 53 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 3: the experience of when you don't know what the people 54 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: are wheeled in on the gurney on a Saturday night, 55 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: and he'll know chances are he grew up with. That 56 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 3: kid told me, I think fifteen people he grew up 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: with have been killed by guns in the last since 58 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: he you know, and when he said grew up with 59 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 3: he met friends people, he said his definition was somebody 60 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: who was in his phone. I know them personally. I just, 61 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 3: I just I just went all around the country, you know, Alabama, Chicago, 62 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: he went to hung out with some trauma surgeons in DC, 63 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 3: talk about what happens when when you show up at 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 3: a and it was just the most the one of 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: the fascinating things about it was very few of the 66 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 3: people who I talked to who are on the front 67 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: lines of gun Mountain's country, talked about gun control. There's 68 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: an interest them, it's it's they see what's going on 69 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: and the debate that we the policy debates we have 70 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 3: in Washington are just so far removed from their daily experience. 71 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: If two kids, both with illegal handguns, get high on 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: a Saturday night and have an argument and shoot each other, 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 3: how exactly is a law and Washington supposed to fix that? 74 00:03:58,360 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 75 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 3: Right? Or you get shot and you die. Because this 76 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 3: is the story I was telling. In Chicago. For the 77 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: longest time, there was no trauma center on the South 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: side of Chicago. If you got shot, they took you 79 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: by ambulance all the way to the north side. You 80 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: know far that is traffic, So lots of people, all 81 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 3: these cases of kids who would just die in the 82 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 3: ambulance on the way. Now, how exactly is like a 83 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 3: you know, some abstract argument about the Second Amendment going 84 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: to fix the flight of somebody who's got to spend 85 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: thirty five minutes in an ambulance to get to a 86 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 3: trauma center. So it's like I just I just came 87 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 3: to the conclusion that there's a lot of people in 88 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 3: this country who are deeply invested in these debates that 89 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: have been going on for uh, you know, for decades now, 90 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: and they're just out of touch with and even something 91 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: as simple this is maybe gonna get me a little trouble. 92 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: But what do we when we talk about gun buns 93 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: in this country? We spend a huge amount of time 94 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 3: talking about mass shootings. Mass shootings are statistically a drop 95 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: in the bucket, They're rare, and so we're consumed with 96 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: the very tiny part of the problem that happens to 97 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: affect middle class right, and then the rest of it 98 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 3: is like whatever, kind of shrugging whatever. 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: I got so many questions based off what you just said. 100 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 2: Back to the subway thing real quick. Yes, I don't 101 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: think handguns everybody having a handgun on the subway will 102 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: make things safer, But people do feel safer when they see. 103 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: Police officers with handguns on the sub absolutely. 104 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: How do you explain that, Well, because the police officer 105 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: knows how to use the gun. The problem, well, I 106 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: mean problem with a handgun is so hilarious. You talk 107 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: to people who actually know a lot about guns and 108 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: they will tell you it is so hard to hit 109 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 3: some hit what you want to hit with a handgun, 110 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: particularly if you're not an expert and you're terrified. So like, 111 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: if two people have a shootout on a subway cars, 112 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: they're gonna hit everybody. They're gonna be like, it's gonna 113 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 3: be Mayhem Like Yeah, this idea that everyone is cool 114 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: under pressure when they're making a life or that decision 115 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 3: with a hand is nuts. Even police, well even police 116 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 3: officers don't always hit what they're supposed to hit. Yeah. 117 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: I had a really fun discussion with a prosecutor in 118 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 3: Brooklyn on this very question, and he was like, you know, 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: I've been doing this for whatever twenty years, He's I 120 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: get even even cops rarely shoot straight, So why would 121 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: we want to introduce more guns into a closed steel 122 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: box running under the East River? You know, like it's 123 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: just the but like it's just the thing that's weird. 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: Is just how out of touch? What I really my 125 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: real point was not to get into an argument about 126 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: guns on the subway, is was the idea that our 127 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: policy is being made in this country by a bunch 128 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: of people who are completely out of touch. 129 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: Already out of touch are our gun lobby is just 130 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: too in their pockets because I mean when you look 131 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: at Post yeah. 132 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 3: You know it's they're just making these sort of abstract 133 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: legal arguments. And you know, I sort of wanted to 134 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: why are they even debating gun control in Washington? Why 135 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: don't they They should take that show on the road. 136 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: Let's let's put them on the A train at eight 137 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: o'clock at night and then show them. Okay, let's what 138 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: do you think would happen if six people on this 139 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: in this car right now we're carrying a handgun. I mean, 140 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 3: they're just there has to we have to do something 141 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: to kind of reconnect the conversation. 142 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: Why do you think we as Americans are so obsessed 143 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: with guns? 144 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm Canadian, So that's why I say 145 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 3: we I'm looking here. No, I was gonna say, I 146 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: didn't mean that I was, but like so it's just, 147 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: you know, we're just to the North Settle roughly the 148 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: same time by people from Europe and you know, and whatever. 149 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: I mean, the history is parallel, but we're not obsessed 150 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: with I've never been able to wrap my mind around well, 151 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 3: I don't have it. What I'm saying is I can't 152 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: answer that question because I grew up in Canada and 153 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: where there's no guns. I didn't see a gun till 154 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: like you got to be until I got over here, 155 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: So I don't know you could. I suppose there's all 156 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: kinds of complicated historical reasons for that. But it's weird. 157 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 3: How kind of gun focused. 158 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: Is it the legislation you think? I mean, I mean, 159 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 2: I don't know a gun law in Canada. 160 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, well so if you watch, this is not 161 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 3: an answer to the question out of but if you watch, 162 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: there's a category of Canadian Westerns. So the same idea, 163 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 3: some guy out on the range and the you know 164 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 3: in the in the frontier, like bringing justice. In Canadian Westerns, 165 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: the mounty not a not a not a sheriff, but 166 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: like he spends all of his time like pulling dogs 167 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: out of the river and like helping middle old ladies. 168 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: He doesn't even carry a gun. Like in the Canadian 169 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 3: fantasy of the wild West. It's like, you know, somebody, 170 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 3: somebody lost a cow and they call. In the American fantasy, 171 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 3: it's like people are So there's something about the fantasies. 172 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: Right from the beginning, there was a weird set of 173 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 3: fantasies that get attached to I think TV. I did 174 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 3: an episode of this series on this gun series on 175 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: visions History that looked that was all about gun smoke. 176 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 1: You know. 177 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 3: It was the longest running Western absolutely, and we did. 178 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: One of the things we did is we calculated, so 179 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 3: Gunsmoke takes place in Dodge City in Kansas, and we 180 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 3: tried to calculate, based on the TV show, what would 181 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 3: the homae what's the homicide rate in the fictional Dodge 182 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: City And the answer is it's like eighty times higher 183 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: than than the highest homicide rate in a real American city. 184 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: So in our fantasy world, we created an America that 185 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: is infinitely more dangerous and scary than the real America. 186 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: Right And by the way, Gun Smoke was on TV 187 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: for twenty years. It was it was on for twenty years, 188 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: twenty years. It's one of those popular TV shows yea 189 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: both time, and it was peddling a kind of vision 190 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 3: of American life that was again out of touch. 191 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 2: Do you think that is because the media is always leading. 192 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: They would say, if it bleeds, it leads, So we 193 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: think that America is way worse than it actually is 194 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: because of the news. 195 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think. Well, it's you know, it's an 196 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: odd thing I got. Really, you know, when Ron DeSantis 197 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 3: was running around lecturing New yorker is on how dangerous 198 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: New York is. Meanwhile, New York and New York State 199 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: are so much safer than Florida. Florida, you want to 200 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: go someplace and put your life in your hands, go 201 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 3: to Jacksonville. 202 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: Jackie and kill Wow. 203 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: The idea, The idea that the governor of one of 204 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 3: the most violent states in the country is lecturing New 205 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: Yorkers New York City, New York City and New York State, 206 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 3: by the way, one of the safest regions of the country, 207 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 3: the idea, and nobody he got a free pass. Everyone 208 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: was like, yeah, New York must be more dangerous from Florida. 209 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: No, the opposite. 210 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 3: So it's like, it is, it's, it's it's it is 211 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: a fascination with this kind of violence, coupled with a 212 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: set of like completely unexamined assumptions about what's dangerous in America, 213 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: where the danger is or like honestly, like google Jacksonville 214 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: and then you will never go to Jacksonville again. 215 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 2: That's all gave somebody doggy in a day from Jacksonville. 216 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: I don't know why Malcolm shooting at Jacksonville this morning, 217 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: but something happened to Malcolm and jacksonvilleing and then. 218 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 3: We have all from Jacksonville. I like, but I should 219 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 3: say I have been to Jacksonville many times. Parts of 220 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: Jacksonville are quite lovely. But like, the governor of Florida 221 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: should not be lecturing us about violence, is all I 222 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: have to say. 223 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, damn do ball your city caught one this morning? 224 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: You said that people, uh, people were not with the 225 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: kind coversation we're not having about guns. 226 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: What is that? Is it about the people? 227 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 2: Because I feel like as they always have conversations about 228 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: gun control, but they never talk about the people who 229 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: actually own the guns. 230 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 3: There's there's that, there is the well, there's there's all 231 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: kinds of sort of weird things that we're not talking about. Yeah, 232 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: we're not talking about I did that episode on trauma centers. 233 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 3: We're not talking about the fact that, uh, hospitals, trauma 234 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: centers should be where the victims of gun violence are. 235 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 3: And we have a system right now in this country 236 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: where we don't always sometimes we do we don't always 237 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 3: put medical facilities where they're needed. We put them where 238 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 3: they make the most money. And so that's one thing 239 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: we don't talk a lot about when we should that 240 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 3: it's a huge issue. You know. One of the episodes 241 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 3: in the series, I looked at the question of a 242 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: homicide rate at any A murder rate at any given 243 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: time is a function of two things. One is how 244 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: much violence there is, and the second is how good 245 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 3: How good is the medical care. Right, If you get 246 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 3: shot and you get taken directly to the hospital and 247 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 3: they save your life, you're not a homicide victim. If 248 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 3: the same thing happens and you don't get to the 249 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 3: hospital time and you die, you are a homicide victim. Right. 250 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: So a lot depends on how good your hospital system is, 251 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: and a huge amount if we have situations like in Chicago. 252 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 3: They did a study and they showed that if you 253 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: were black, you traveled a lot further to a trauma 254 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 3: center than if you were white. Right, Like, that's something 255 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: that's the kind of thing you should talk about. 256 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: Big something. 257 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: You know, you could save a lot of lives if 258 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 3: you cite another thing. 259 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: We maybe didn't not trying to save. Maybe that's the point. 260 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 3: Yes, it's I think it's in it's in its indifference 261 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 3: more than or just like you know, uh, the the 262 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: amount of oxygen, like I said before, the amount of 263 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: oxygen that gets taken up by heart obsession with mass 264 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: shootings when they're the terrible thing, but they are they 265 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: are so a tiny, such a tiny, tiny part of 266 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: the problem. The idea that that's all we kind of 267 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 3: talk about it about it is weird. But also the 268 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 3: idea that you know, in every profession, when anytime, anytime 269 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: people have an area of specialized knowledge, they're usually invested 270 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 3: in making sure that not any kind of you know, 271 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: if you're a doctor, you're powerfully invested in the idea 272 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: that you got to go to med school before you 273 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 3: can practice medicine. You don't want any yahoo breck, you know, 274 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 3: like you yeah, But gun owners will simultaneously go on 275 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: and on and on legitimately about how much knowledge you 276 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: need to handle a gun safely and fired accurately, and 277 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 3: at the same time they're like, but everyone should be 278 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: able to get one at the job of a hat. 279 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: That's just dumb. It should be the gun owners who 280 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: are supporting restrictions around gun use, because they're the ones 281 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: who are aware of how legitimately difficult it is to 282 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: handle a gun safely and appropriately. I don't get it. 283 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: I don't understand why gun control isn't being pushed by 284 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 3: gun lovers, right. You know. It's like I said, like 285 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: I you know, I'm a big runner. I'm the last 286 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: person who says everyone should run and it's hard. Take 287 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: it seriously. You know what you're doing. You gotta, like, 288 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 3: you know, prepare for it. I don't say you have 289 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: a right to everyone should have a right to run 290 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: ten miles in the morning. 291 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: Maybe gun levels are in a bubble because they know 292 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: how to use their guns. They you know, they go 293 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: to the gun range all the time. People around them 294 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: probably know how to use their gun and go to 295 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: the gun range when their mind, they're just assuming if 296 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: you have a gun, you know how to use it, 297 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: you know how. 298 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 3: I think that's probably maybe They's what I spent one 299 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: of the episodes. I go down to North Carolina and 300 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: I hang out with this guy, Greg Wallace, who's a 301 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 3: He said, he loves guns. He's a just competitive shooting 302 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: and gave me a kind of we fired assault rifle 303 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 3: and he gave me a tutorial on how to do it. 304 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: And just from spending an afternoon with him. That's the 305 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 3: thing I came away from. It's like you need it's hard. 306 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: There's a lot of and you know the amount of 307 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: caution he took, Like when I when I picked up 308 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 3: the assault rifle and picked up the wrong way, he was, 309 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: you know, like, don't you know? Like it was it 310 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: was a real kind of Uh it was. It was 311 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: fascinating just to see how in their own little world 312 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 3: they're super gotious around. 313 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: How do you feelhen you fight that thing though? How'd 314 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: you feel? Malcolm? Huh? You get a rush? 315 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: Jesus did I get a rush? The first time I've 316 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 3: ever picked up a gun in my life? 317 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, first time. 318 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: First time in a shooting range in rural North Carolina, 319 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: an ar fifteen And uh I felt. First of all, 320 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: I was, it's really loud. You had a head I had, 321 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 3: I had things on, but it was still loud. It 322 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: was creepy at first. And then you with that you 323 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: can't help it. 324 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: You get a little rush. 325 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 326 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 3: It's like these things are big and heavy. Like the 327 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 3: idea that you have in your hands, something that you 328 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: could kill someone with is just strange. 329 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: If he's never held a gun, have you have? I 330 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: shot a gun. Yeah. 331 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: I never shot an the sault rifle though, like an 332 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: AAR fifteen or anything like that. 333 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know handgun, yeah, like. 334 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: A little like a lower one, the lower part. I 335 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: mean we got a three fifty seven of the house 336 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: on the glock of the house. Oh okay, what what 337 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: are your thoughts on assault rifles now after using one? 338 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 3: Well, I did that episode and it was the one 339 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 3: that got the most male basically saying I think salt 340 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 3: rifle bands are a dumb idea, and they're dumb because 341 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: they're not actually banning assault rifles. Assaut rifle is a 342 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 3: kind of platform, and what assaut rifle bands do is 343 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 3: identify if you accessorize your gun with a certain number 344 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 3: of cosmetic things. We think that's bad and we want 345 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: to ban them, but they it's a semi automatic rifle 346 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: with a large magazine. Those are you know, those are 347 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: until you can Still they're still legal in many states 348 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 3: asault rifle bands. So it's like kind of weird that 349 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 3: why are we identifying a class of weapons because they 350 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 3: look ugly and saying we should. But the other thing 351 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 3: is like it's the amount of damage they can do, 352 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 3: but we're not. We're not banning so rifles. Rifles are 353 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 3: are very you know, they're semi automatic rifles are a 354 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: very lethal weapon. We're not banning semi auomatic rifles. Within 355 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 3: assault rifle ban we're banning a tiny subcategory that happened 356 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: to have a certain number of cosmetic features that we 357 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 3: don't like. So it's like we're not solving the problem. 358 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: And then I sat down with this trauma surgeon in 359 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 3: DC who had studied mass shootings and it's like, if 360 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: that's what's what's you're worried about, is mass shootings? Actually 361 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 3: the most lethal weapon used in mass shootings is are handguns, 362 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 3: because a handgun gets into the grizzly. But you within 363 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: assault rifle, you shoot once the person goes down, and 364 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: because it's boom right then with a handgun, you shoot 365 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: once and sometimes person doesn't go down, so you're more 366 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 3: likely to be shot twice. You're shot by a handgun 367 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 3: and the guy gets up closer and shoots you a 368 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 3: second time, and he is more likely to kill you. 369 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: So you're more likely to die from a handgun than 370 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 3: a sult rifle in a mass shooting, which just says, 371 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 3: by the way, which is a all we're saying is 372 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: guns are dangerous, they're used in different ways, and to 373 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: have as a to spend all of our time and 374 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 3: energy trying to remove one tiny subcategory of guns from 375 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: the equation and the hopes is going to change things. 376 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: It's just dumb. It's just like the problem is much 377 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: bigger than that. You're not solving it by by by by, 378 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 3: you know, by taking some pair of scissors to one 379 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: page of the gun manual. 380 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: Right, So what is the solutions then? How to kind 381 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: of control of the America gets lit broken out of? 382 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: We think that, Yeah, he's from cannabis, so he can't. 383 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: When I talked to that guy at Della Price in 384 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: the last the last of the episodes, which by the way, 385 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 3: one of the most so I sat with. So he's 386 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 3: a guy, he's in his thirties, big football big, incredibly 387 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 3: moving and powerful and thoughtful guy. 388 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: Just say he's sexy, Malcolm. First of all, Malcolm is sexy. 389 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: I talked it is a big sexy. 390 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 3: I knew, I knew. I just knew what I was like, 391 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 3: I'm gonna describe. I'm just going to get in trouble. 392 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 3: Uh the he is he a handsome man? Yes, he 393 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: is a handsome man, charle man, if that's what you're asking, 394 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 3: and he so. My point is he's talking about one 395 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: of the things he does is he goes into elementary 396 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: and middle schools in the South Chicago hands out first 397 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: responder kids, teaches the kids how to minister first eight 398 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: if the first because it's a reality, No terrible, that 399 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 3: kind of I mean, it's just what he was describing that, 400 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 3: it's just like it's so heartbreaking and children. What he 401 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 3: would say is and what he talked about it is, 402 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of gun violence is kids, is 403 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 3: disputes between young people who don't know how to resolve 404 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 3: their disputes peaceably. And you have to teach people a 405 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 3: kind of an emotional vocabulary that allows them to have 406 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: an argument without pulling a gun. 407 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: But that's a whole other thing for us. 408 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: Serious and now you're talking about mental health and social 409 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: remoa learning and. 410 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: Maybe if we just maybe if we just put the 411 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: gun control conversation on hold and said, all right, we'll 412 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: get back to this when the time comes. It's it's important, 413 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 3: but it's not as important as what you're just talking about. 414 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 3: Is you've got kids. You know, Little Price was talking 415 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 3: about on in the neighborhoods where he works. It's you know, 416 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 3: we're talking about multi generational beefs, like you shot my cousin, 417 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: so I shot your brother. You know, like you have 418 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: to unravel that cycle, and that takes a lot of 419 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 3: time and a lot of care and a lot of attention. 420 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 3: And you know, if we just focused on trying to 421 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 3: unravel that for a while and see if we make 422 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: any headway, that strikes me as being a really productive 423 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 3: way to kind of tact the problem. 424 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, why do that makes so much sense? 425 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 2: It makes so much sense because you probably can get 426 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: people to move on that faster than you ever will 427 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: get them to move on actual gun control. 428 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 429 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: I don't see any reason why people on both sides 430 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 3: of the political fence shouldn't couldn't rally around around that. 431 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: Like why do we pick a we we choose a 432 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 3: fight that we know is the most divisive fight we 433 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 3: can possibly have, and that has zero chance of getting anywhere. 434 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 3: We're not getting anywhere with the court we have with 435 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 3: gun control unhappy, So like, why do we just bang 436 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: our heads against the wall. Why don't we do something 437 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: that would have more effective? 438 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: Can I pivot a little bit if you don't want 439 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: to talk about it, I understand, But you know, the 440 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 2: whole Palestine Israel conflict. 441 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: Is that? What? 442 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: What? 443 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 3: What is? 444 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: What do you think the larger global ramifications of what 445 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: we're watching right now will be ultimately. 446 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. 447 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 3: I mean, it's so beyond my that's a that's not 448 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 3: something that I've ever It's just all I All I 449 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 3: know is that it's heartbreaking, that's allid Yeah, definitely. 450 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: Absolutely, six part series. 451 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: Tell us what you got a book? 452 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: You're still working on the next book too? 453 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 3: Well, now I've I'm I'm working. I put my my, my, 454 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: uh Tom Bradley book on hold and which turned into 455 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 3: it turned into a book about anger and all this 456 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 3: kind of stuff. 457 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: So it's not about Tom Bradley anymore. 458 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: Well, I got interested in so it is. But what 459 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: I got really interested in. 460 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 4: Is is is I got interested in when what strategies 461 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 4: are available to the angry? Because it was it turned 462 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 4: into this book about what it meant to be black 463 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 4: in if you lived in Los Angeles in the thirties 464 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: and forties, and this group of black guys. 465 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 3: Who all go to U c. 466 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: L A. 467 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 3: In the thirties Tom Bradley, Jackie Robinson, Wally Strode, a 468 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 3: bunch of people who go on to have really big career. 469 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 3: Was it was a huge actor in Hollywood, a guy 470 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: named Washington who was a big NFL player. And they're 471 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 3: like the only black people on the UCLA campus. They 472 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: all live in South Central and they all have different 473 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: strategies for dealing with the fact. You know, they were 474 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 3: all on the UCLA football team and they played the 475 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: big game was against u USC and they got hung 476 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: in it. Basically, a US fraternity on the USC campus 477 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 3: has a mock lynching the black players on the UCLA 478 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: team and they hang them, hang them in effigy outside 479 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: the frat just before the big game between you see, 480 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 3: this is what's going on in their lives, right and 481 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 3: I turned I've turned the book into an examination of 482 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: what are the strategies available to you if you're in 483 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 3: that kind of situation. They're angry, right as you would 484 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: be if you grew up in La Black in the 485 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: nineteen thirties, and each of them, of the people I'm profiling, 486 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 3: has a different strategy for dealing with that anger. You know, 487 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 3: there's a one path is confrontation. I just start shouting. 488 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 3: And there's a woman living in ceuth Citul. It's an 489 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: incredible woman living in South Central who I write about. 490 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 3: Who's that's her? That's what she does. She just stands 491 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: up and starts shouting until people. And then the other 492 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 3: path is the Tom Bradley path, where you take all 493 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: of your anger and you button it up. And he 494 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: never This is a man, you know, first black mayor 495 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: of Los Angeles endures the most unspeakable kind of experienced 496 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 3: racist experiences trying to come to political power in LA 497 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: and never once you know, let's on that he's been 498 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 3: affected by it. I mean, he just is this serene. 499 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: And that's another strategy is you just pretend it doesn't exist, right, 500 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 3: you turn yourself into someone else that's not good. 501 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: You're suppressing it. 502 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 3: Well, they're all. What I'm interested in is there's no 503 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: perfect strategy. There's each strategy has a set of of 504 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: of costs and benefits and it's up to the person 505 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 3: to just to to figure out what the right right. 506 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 3: And you know, everyone, not everyone, you guys have all 507 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: you've all done this in your life, right. You have 508 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: sat down on some level, maybe not consciously, but you've 509 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: sat down and you've figured out how am I going 510 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 3: to deal with the baggage I'm carrying? Right? And you've 511 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 3: made compromises that you know, to yourself to those around you. 512 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: You have other times you've said, I'm not going to compromise, 513 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 3: I'm going to be right. That's the I want to 514 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: describe that process because it strikes me as being anyone 515 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: who has ever been on the wrong side of a 516 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 3: power equation has had to go through that process in 517 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 3: everyone right, and I want to figure out I want 518 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 3: to kind of write a kind of guidebook to how 519 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 3: you do that. 520 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: But you know what you said, you talked to any 521 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: psychiatrists and therapists, because before I started going to therapy, 522 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 2: I would just either suppressed like those emotions or conformed, 523 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: you know, in a lot of cases. And that was 524 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: actually a big life lesson that I learned dealing with 525 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: an individual like yo. I'm never compromising myself for anyone. 526 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: So did you talk to any psychiatrist and therapists. 527 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 3: On people that did the work I mean on that book, 528 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 3: I'm only halfway okay, So I'm getting yeah, I'm getting 529 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 3: I'm I'm right now. I'm I'm just doing the part 530 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 3: where I'm describing the like I have a whole chapter 531 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: on the the whole group of there's a whole group 532 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 3: of comics, comedians living in South Central in the thirties 533 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: and forties and who are allowed to be in movies 534 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: in LA only of course, if they conformed to a 535 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 3: certain right. There's the guy Jack Benny's sidekick what's his name, 536 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 3: I've forgotten, who has to play this kind of stupid butler, right, 537 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 3: but he has little opportunities to kind of fight back, 538 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 3: but he has to. That's those are the rules, and 539 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 3: you want. 540 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: To be and yeah, you. 541 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 3: Got to that. That kind of women. Eddie Anderson, Eddie 542 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 3: have a whole thing, a whole chapter on Eddie Anderson, 543 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 3: who fascinating, Yeah, fascinating. He's the mayor of Central Avenue. 544 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 3: He's this huge figure in South central the UH in 545 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: the thirties and forties. And know, he's one of the 546 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 3: most he might be one of the most famous black 547 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: men in America in if you talked to us, if 548 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: you went to a white person from Iowa in nineteen 549 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 3: forty seven and said, you know, name three black people, 550 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: he would be one of them, to be him and 551 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 3: Joe Louis and yeah, you know. So he's a huge figure. 552 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: We've forgotten now it's a huge But so I tell 553 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 3: his one of the chapters about his extraordinary story. 554 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: That's interesting because some people will say that that hasn't changed. 555 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: Like you still if you're black, you still have to 556 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: play a certain role, whether it's a hip hop movies 557 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: or whatever in order to have success. 558 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that's absolutely well. 559 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 2: Listen, I know Malcolm Glawell has to leave the six 560 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: part series. Revision is History is out right now. I 561 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: love Revision History. I haven't gotten a chance to listen 562 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: to the six part series, but I reference your McDonald's 563 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: episode quite often, you know, quite often. But thank you 564 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: for coming, my brother, thank you, thank you so much. 565 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: It's Malcolm Gladwell. 566 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club. 567 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: Wake that answer up in the morning. 568 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Breakfast Club.