1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace and the middle of a 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: bowling alley. You think everybody's having fun, because I know 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: we do lots of fun at the bowling alley. But 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: how does a little girl seemingly disappear into thin air 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: from the middle of a bowling alley with her family there? 6 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: How does that happen? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When 7 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: I go bowling with the twins with or without my 8 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: husband David, I can see them sitting right there. They 9 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: don't just disappear into thin air. But that is exactly 10 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: what happened to this little girl. We want answers. First 11 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to this. It was January 12 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: twenty third. Tika was at a crowded bowling alley with 13 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: her family in Tacoma, Washington. Members of the family were 14 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: taking turns watching Tica and some other young children with them, 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: and they were distracted for a few moments. When they 16 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: turned around, she was gone. Since then, no one has 17 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: seen her. Now I get being distracted at the bowling 18 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: alley because when as you're turned to bowl, you get 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: the ball, you go up, you set your sights on 20 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: the pins, and you roll it out. You see what happens. 21 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: You wait and you see your score, so you're looking. 22 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: I would guess at least a minute. And I know 23 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: in a lot of functions, say at a church function, 24 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: or a family reunion, or where you feel you know everybody, 25 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: you're not staring at your child the whole time. How 26 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: did this little girl just two years old? She's beautiful? 27 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: How does she go missing at a crowded bowling alley? Again, 28 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Fox Station sleven. 29 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: I want to introduce to you an all star panel 30 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: of guests, each one an expert in their own right, 31 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: to try to make sense of it all with me. 32 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: Dale Carson, criminal defense attorney joining us out of Jacksonville. 33 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: Not just a criminal defense attorney, renown criminal defense attorney, 34 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: but former FBI and former cop, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. 35 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: I don't like that, but the rest I like a lot. 36 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: Psychoanalice to the Stars, joining us out of La Doctor 37 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall 38 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: dot com and she's star of a brand new Netflix 39 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: series Bleeding Empire. Investigator Dan Scott, former La County Sheriff 40 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: sergeant twenty six years Special Victims Bureau specializing in child cases. 41 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: Olivia Lavoy's crime reporter joining us for QUTE thirteen Fox 42 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: at Seattle and you can find her on Twitter at 43 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: QTE thirteen Olivia. But first I want to go to 44 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: a very special guest joining us, a woman I feel 45 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: that I befriended over the years. Teresa English. This is 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: Tica's mother and you can find her and to go 47 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: fund me help pay for a private investigator, and boy 48 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: do they need one. First of all, Miss English, thank 49 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: you for being with us. You know, a lot of 50 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: blame I'll just put it out there has been cast 51 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: on you because you're the mom Antica disappeared on your watch. 52 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: But after many, many investigations into this particular case, I 53 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: think the attacks on you are unjustified. Tell me, Miss English, 54 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: what happened? What do you remember of the night Tica 55 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: just disappeared in the bowling alley. It was a family function. 56 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: I had family members there's I had my brother and 57 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: my sister in laws. I had my boyfriend at the time, 58 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: and we were all just having fun, you know, and 59 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: Pica was Miss Miss English. Miss English, look write this down, 60 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: because you know what the many times I've looked this case. 61 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: I didn't know how who what members of your extended 62 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: family were there. Was this some kind of a reunion 63 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: or a get together of sorts. It was a get 64 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: together because I never got out the house. You know, 65 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: I had four other kids. So my brother invited me 66 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: to go out with them and my oldest three daughters. 67 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: They went with their aunt and I had my two 68 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: youngest one. I had my two year old and my 69 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: ten months old at the time, the four year old 70 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: and you're ten months old. Oh man, you got your 71 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: hands full. I know how it was when the twins 72 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: or ten months old. How they were when they were 73 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: two years old and they were starting to walk. Okay, 74 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: so your brother is his wife there, His wife is there. 75 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: My other brother and his girlfriend was there. Yes. Did 76 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: they have children and were the children there? Yes, my 77 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: brother had his son and he was Oh, he was 78 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: just a couple of months old, so he was focused 79 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: on his baby boy. And what about the second brother, 80 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: he was his girl with him and his wife. It 81 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: was him and his girl. Yeah, him and his girlfriend 82 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: at the time. Did they have children. No, they didn't 83 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: have no kids. So it was you, your brother and 84 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: his wife. The brother and the girlfriend, the infant son, 85 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: the brother. Had anybody else from your family? Oh, your 86 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: boyfriend yes at the time, yes, and anybody else. M 87 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: my sister, she had her family members there, so it 88 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: was a it was a big group. How many family 89 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: members did your sister, Brian? Oh, there was probably like 90 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: six seven other ones, So it was a pretty big group. Now, 91 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: hold of just a moment, Miss English, I want to 92 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: go straight out to Dell Carson joining us out of 93 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: Jacksonville right now now, not only a criminal defense attorney, 94 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: but former FBI and Dale. You know, that's kind of 95 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: it's almost like a family reunion. And I am lulled 96 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: into a sense of complacency when I'm at a family 97 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: get together because you feel like with your own family 98 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: so many of them around, for Pete's sake, that's at 99 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: least twelve people, I think right there, you feel safe 100 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: and you feel like everybody is watching each other's children, 101 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: or at least I would feel that way. Well, that's right, 102 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the odd things that 103 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: we don't understand about petophiles and serial pillars is that 104 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: they often communicate with one another. And it's a known 105 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: fact in those circles that amusement areas are prime for 106 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: picking up potential victims. And we see this here in 107 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: Florida where these arcades as they were back in the nineties. 108 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: Of course it's different today. We're basically used as a 109 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: stomping ground for people picking up young boys and girls 110 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: who would be runaways and end up in those places. 111 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: And they would go in and they'd place a stack 112 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: of quarters, which were used at that time to operate 113 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: the machines, and that's how they would lure them. So 114 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody really realizes that. When you're in 115 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: a family group like that and you're paying attention to 116 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: one another, you're certainly not expecting that someone would think 117 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: that an amusement area is someplace where you might find 118 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: an abduct a child. And so I think, you know what, 119 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm very torn about what you're saying. Part of me 120 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: knows that it's true. But I remember my brother, my 121 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: older brother, helped put himself to college working at one 122 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: of those arcades in the mall at the time. I 123 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: also worked at the mall at Sears and Rowbot, Okay, 124 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: And I would go by and I would see my brother, 125 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, there, and he's about seven or eight years 126 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: older than me, and I never thought of it that way. 127 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: But let me tell you this deal. One of the first, 128 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: not the first, but one of the first childless station 129 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: cases I had. Was a little boy I recalled. He 130 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: was about nine to eleven years old, and he was 131 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: learning disabled, could hardly speak, and he loved the video 132 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: arcade deal. Loved it and his mom would give him 133 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: a role of quarters and take him to the video 134 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: kade and arcade, like sit in the parking lot and 135 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: work or whatever she was doing, and then you know 136 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: they'd go home. Well, one time she found I think 137 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: it was a twenty dollar folded up bill in his pocket. 138 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Turns out at the arcade he had met a pedophile 139 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: who would sodomize the little boy and in payment would 140 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: give him some quarters. So it seems like a very 141 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: innocent place when I was growing up working at Sears 142 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: and Robot, it's not always innocent crime stories with Nancy 143 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: Grace and I want to follow up on what deal. 144 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: Courson lawyer right at Jacksonville is saying with Dan Scott, 145 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: former La County Sheriff's sergeant, he's right, so while mom, 146 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: who's with us right now, Teresa English is minding her 147 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: own business. As she's there with her two babies, you 148 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: don't think, Wow, right over there that group of people, 149 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: I don't know one of them could be a pedophile. 150 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: I've been so freaked out about this case. When I 151 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: took the children alone when they were two or three, starting, 152 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, going bowling and playing, they'd have to go 153 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: everywhere with me, even to the bathroom. We could hardly 154 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: get through a game of bowling because whenever one of 155 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: them had to go, we'd all go. Because of this case, 156 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: Tica's case, jump in, Dan Scott. It's always easy in 157 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: the first person you blame is the mom or the parents, 158 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: But you have to remember these are predators that solely 159 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: look for children. They have are experts at it, they're 160 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: experts at blending in. Yes it's scary, and yes we 161 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: do our best to watch our children at all times, 162 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: but it only takes a moment to turn your attention 163 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: away when these people will snatch. That's all they do 164 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: is think about where they can tame a child. What 165 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: you just said something that really hits home to me. 166 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: In fact, you just gave me chills on my arm. 167 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: You said, that's all they think about. You're right. For instance, 168 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: all I think about, beside prime stories is the twins. 169 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: What am I going to cook them for dinner? What 170 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: are they what's their homework assignment? Where do they have 171 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: to be? What's the latest in scouts? All of that. 172 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: I'm consumed with. That that's all they think about. And 173 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen of this. This 174 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: is our friends at crime online dot com. Listen as 175 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: Tica Lewis is playing in one of the driving games 176 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: in the Bowling Alley arcade, her mother, Teresa English, looks 177 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: way just for a few moments to check on her 178 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: other children in one of the bowling lanes. When English 179 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: turns back around, Tica is gone. English looks around and 180 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: between the other games, then runs to the nearby ladies 181 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: room to check there no Tica. Just six feet away 182 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: from the arcade where Tica was playing is a side 183 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: door to the Mowling Alley. Teresa English runs through the 184 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: door and into the parking lot, screaming her daughter's name, 185 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: where is Tica? Oh? Miss English? Miss English? Miss English. 186 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: You know I can hear that one hundred times and 187 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: every time it's just so upseting. Tell me when you 188 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: first notice Miss English that Tica wasn't what was happening. 189 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: I was freaked out, you know, um me having four 190 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: other kids and Tica was my everything, you know, from 191 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: day one, from the day I had her, she was 192 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: my everything. I freaked out, you know you. I mean, 193 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: I was at a padding. I looked over you in 194 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: the video games. She was gone. I told her. I 195 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: told everybody in the group, I said, Tika's not here, 196 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: Tika's gone. You know where is she? And what were 197 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: you doing? Were you bowling? Were you watching somebody bowl? 198 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: What happened when you turned around? What made you realize 199 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: she wasn't there? I went to bowl. It was my 200 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: turn to Bull. So I went to Bull and Tica 201 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: was there because you know, I had just seen her, 202 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: and I told her, I'm gonna go Bull. I'll be 203 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: right back. And so I went to go Bull. I 204 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: turned around, and it took that quick for her to 205 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: be gone. It was just like within a couple of seconds. 206 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: Because I went to boy, I didn't change I didn't 207 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: check my score. I turned around, you know, if she 208 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: was gone that quick. Joining me right now is doctor 209 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. She's around psychiatrists joining us out of the 210 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction and you can find her at angela Arnold 211 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: MD dot com. Doctor Angie, I have to tell you something. 212 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: Hearing Teresa English talk, yes and listen. You know I 213 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: will jump on a mom in a New York minute 214 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: if I think they have anything to do something that 215 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: happened to their child. You know that when I hear 216 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: Teresa English talk, it literally is giving me chill bumps 217 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: because it reminds me of the day I was in 218 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: the Babies or Us, you know, that big warehouse thing 219 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: looking for organic suntan leisure And I was down on 220 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: the very bottom level that was really tall shelf like 221 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: they do it lows maybe or home depot, and I 222 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: was all the way down there. John David Lucy were 223 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: right behind me, and I was digging around trying to 224 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: find it, and I couldn't find it. I stood up 225 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: and I was looking up and down. I said, well, 226 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: I guess that I'll have it, and I turned around 227 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: it there was Lucy, no John David, and that feeling. 228 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: It's just it's awful. I will never forget it as 229 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: long as I live. And I really am angry that 230 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: people have been blaming Miss English. She went up to 231 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: bowl she turns around and Tika's gone. She immediately sounds 232 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: the along. Can you imagine running into the ladies bathroom 233 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: run think, oh, she's going to be in there, and 234 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: you and calm down, this is gonna be okay. You 235 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: go in there, she's not there, and then you can 236 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: feel it rising in your chest. I'm really angry with 237 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: people blaming miss English all this time, you know, Nancy, 238 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: I think that the people who have the audacity to 239 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: blame the mother have never been They must not be 240 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: mothers themselves, because I think that practically every mother has 241 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: turned their back for a minute and their children have 242 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: gone missing. And I have felt that panic. I was 243 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: at Linux Mall one time, turned around in jim Boree 244 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: and my two little babies were gone. I almost had 245 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: the whole mall locked down, and then some woman comes 246 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: walking down the thing, down the sidewalk or whatever you 247 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: want to call it, and she had my children and 248 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: she goes they were watching TV at Pottery Barn, and 249 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: I was fine, dear lord, and that's half way to 250 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: them all. I'll make this quick, but I just have 251 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: to tell you one more thing. I was out in 252 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: Arizona covering the Jody Arias Trial and the three of 253 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: us were staying in a hotel and I had had 254 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: the twins out at the pool. We were coming in 255 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: and we all got on the elevator. I pushed John 256 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: David in. I said, Lucy, come on. Lucy just froze. 257 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: The elevator closed. I tried to get her. I came 258 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: immediately back down. As soon as I started pushing all 259 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: the buttons, she was gone. Oh my gosh. She got 260 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: on another elevator and I was running up and down 261 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: all through China. Can you imagine some perv had grabbed 262 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: her on another floor. I would never have found her. 263 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: I found her. But my point is, in that moment, 264 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: in that split second, you can lose your child through 265 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: no wrongdoing of your own. Joining me right now, in 266 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: addition to Teresa English, just as Tica's mother, is a 267 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: very well known crime reporter Olivia La Voie joining us 268 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: from Q thirteen Fox Seattle. Olivia tell me about this 269 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: bowling alley where Tica goes missing. But the bowling alley 270 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: is no longer there, but at the time it was 271 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: incredibly popular, and especially on a Saturday night, and at 272 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: the time that Tica went missing, around ten pm, it 273 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: was very crowded, and I think that that contributed to 274 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: the chaos of that night. I mean, on one hand, 275 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: you might think, oh, the more people the better, because 276 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: that means there's more witnesses, But in this case, it 277 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: seems to have been detrimental. You know, there's reports that 278 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: it was so loud in the bowling alley that when 279 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: the manager initially went on the loudspeaker to announce that 280 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: Tica was missing, that it was difficult to hear. It 281 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: seemed like, you know, people weren't stopping in their tracks 282 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: and listening per se. So yes, very very crowded that night, 283 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: in particular, Oh Olivia voice. Just hearing that makes my 284 00:17:47,400 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: skin crawl because seems like everything was going wrong. Time 285 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace too. Teresa English, This is Tika's mother, 286 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: and please go to her go fund me help pay 287 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: for a private investigator and they need one desperately, Miss English. 288 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Show you run to the bathroom looking for Tica, and 289 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: what happens. My sister in law's sister was in there 290 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: and I asked her, I said, is Tika there? And 291 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: she was like no, and I said, she's gone. She's 292 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. So I went up to the 293 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: announcer and I said, and there was an off duty 294 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: officer there and he was supposed to be patrolling the grounds, 295 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: but he wasn't. He was watching everybody bowl. And I 296 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: told him, I said, my daughter's gone. And he said, 297 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: are you sure? And I said yes. We searched everywhere, everywhere, 298 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: and I said, we need help. I need my daughter. 299 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: And he told everybody to look for a child underneath 300 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: the she might have fell asleep. I said, she didn't 301 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: fall asleep, she's nowhere. We searched everywhere already. I said, 302 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: we need back up. You guys need to bring more 303 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: law enforce over here. I mean my baby. My baby's gone. 304 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: So like twenty thirty minutes later, that's when the first 305 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: officer came in. My baby was long gone by then, 306 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: and I told him, you guys took too long. It's 307 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,239 Speaker 1: too long of a wait. Guys, I want you to 308 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: hear our friends at crime on one Tyler, could you 309 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: please play our cut zero zero B as in brother 310 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: Teresa English realizes she needs help and grabs an off 311 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: duty to come a police officer working for the bowling alley. 312 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: After another search that to come a police the FBI 313 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: and the National Center for Missing Unexploited Children are called in. 314 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: Throughout the night, hundreds of officers search the woods and 315 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: go door to door in a nearby residential neighborhood with 316 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: concerns of a family abduction. Relatives are questioned. Teresa English 317 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: voluntarily submits to two polygraph exams. Tika's father has an 318 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: ironclad alibi. The parents are cleared. More than two dozen 319 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: detectives are working on Tika's case full time. Take a 320 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: listen to this. We had gone to that Bowling Alley 321 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: plenty of times, and that was kind of an area 322 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: where people would kind of just come there with their 323 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: families and kids can kind of roam. Saturday night, January 324 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: twenty third, nineteen ninety nine, New Frontiers Bowling Alley was 325 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: filled with people who had become part of a nightmare. 326 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: One teenage boy in particular, but he had no way 327 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: of knowing that. Then I had to use the restroom, 328 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: so I went towards where the restrooms, where this rude 329 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 1: guy bumped into me with this little girl. And since 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: he was white and Tika was mixed, or you know, 331 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: the little girl was mixed, I just thought it was 332 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: the father just rushing his daughter to the bathroom. The 333 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: night went on as usual. When the team and his 334 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: family went to leave, they noticed police were searching for something, 335 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: but they wouldn't know what or rather who, until days later. 336 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Olivia will Avoye thirteen Fox. Olivia 337 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: tell me about the sighting of a white male rushing 338 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: by holding the hand of a little girl. I think 339 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: that this witness sighting is absolutely key to the case 340 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: that witness. I interviewed him twenty one years later. He's 341 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: now an adult man, and you can tell how much 342 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: what he saw that night has stuck with him because 343 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: a few days after he bumps into this man. You know, 344 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: it's a distinct memory for him because he said it 345 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: was so jarring for him as a teenager to have 346 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: this adult man bump into him and not acknowledge it 347 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: and just you know, keep going. And also the man 348 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: had deep pock marks on his face. The teenage boy 349 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: he had never seen anything like that, so that really 350 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: stood out to him. And then three days later he 351 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: see he's take his face all over the news and 352 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: he says, that's that's the little girl that was with 353 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: themand the rude man that night. And he immediately his 354 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: family immediately alerted police. Police did speak with him one 355 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: back then in nineteen ninety nine, but that was that 356 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: was it. Um. It took you know, over twenty years 357 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: for this tip to be unearthed by a cold case 358 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: detective who zeroed in on it and felt like, you know, 359 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: this is this is truly important. People really need to 360 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: hear this suspect description. Tyler. I'd like for everyone to 361 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: hear our cut zero two. This is Olivia Levoy's Q 362 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: thirteen thoughts. Listen. The little girl he saw that night 363 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: when he came face to face with the rude man 364 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: was Tita Lewis. The two year old who was at 365 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: the bowling alley was a dozen family members when in 366 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: an instant she vanished, I had to say something, so 367 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: he did. He was interviewed by detectives in January nineteen 368 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: ninety nine, but then nothing, No one contacted me. I 369 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: was easy to find. Maybe what I had to say 370 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: just wasn't relevant or it wasn't useful. Flash forward two decades. 371 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: Someone did think what he had to say was most 372 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: definitely relevant and useful. The cold case investigator who picked 373 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: through thousands of pages and hundreds of tips when he 374 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: spotted the one that leaped off the page. This witness 375 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: actually describes a type of encounter with Tika by this individual, 376 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: and the description of the individual is not generic. It's 377 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: it's specific, and it's and it's in details. It is 378 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: a very detailed Now listen to our cut zero seven. Listen. 379 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: At that time, there would have been no way for 380 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: the collar to a man with a pockmarked had been 381 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: mentioned in the first few days of the investigation. The 382 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: individual that we're trying to identify is a white male 383 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: five foot eleven with a husky build. He is described 384 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: as having a shoulder length brown, curly or wavy hair, 385 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: with a thick mustache and a heavily pockmarked face. The 386 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: night of Tika's disappearance, he was wearing a blue flannel 387 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: shirt and faded jeans. His motivation to solve this case 388 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: is simple Tika's mother. It really makes it easy to 389 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: try to keep the case alive for her and to 390 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: try to find her some answers. She has never given 391 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: up on her daughter, finding her daughter, and I really 392 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: admire that he's not going to stop looking until we 393 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: find him. And she is with us today. Torsa English 394 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: she says, Tika's mother has never were given up, and 395 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: now you know more than ever why they need a 396 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: private eye on this case. You can go to go 397 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: fund me help pay for a private investigator. This mother, 398 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: Teresa English, is still trying to find her girl. Think 399 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: about it. Would you give up? I wouldn't. I would 400 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: never give up, and neither has she. Back to Olivia 401 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: Lavoy's crime reporter QTE thirteen Fox joining us out of Seattle, Olivia, 402 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: I hear the reporter stating that a car called in 403 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: about a white male with pot marks on his face. 404 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: Who was the caller? So the caller was a woman 405 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: who was at the Bowling Alley about a week or 406 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: so after Tika's disappearance. I think it was actually less 407 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: than that, just a matter of days, and America's Most 408 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: Wanted was at the Bowling Alley shooting a reenactment of 409 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: the case to feature the case, and this woman that 410 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: a man with a heavily poxmarked face was hanging around 411 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: the news crew, and she felt, you know, I mean, 412 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: it's not unusual that if america is Most Wanted is 413 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: in your town filming something that you know, you might 414 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: hang around and watch. But this individual's behavior was so 415 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: odd to her that she called the Tacoma Police Department 416 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: to say, hey, you guys should check this guy out. 417 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: Here's this description. Something was off with him, just the 418 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: way he was sort of lurking. And in the description 419 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: she notes that he has a heavily pockmark face. And 420 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: the detective, the cold case detective who connected these tips, said, 421 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: there's no way that's a coincidence. There's no way that 422 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: woman could have known that we had another witness see 423 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: a man with pockmark face with pica that night. Okay, 424 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: a lot of things crashing in my head right now, 425 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: but one thing that tells me to and Scott, former 426 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: La County Sheriff sergeant twenty six years SVU is that 427 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: this guy is local. It's not that he was coming 428 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: through the interstate that night, maybe a trucker or maybe 429 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: a visitor. He's local because he's still in town a 430 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: week later, when America's must wanted shows up at the 431 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: Bowling Alley to do a regonact, he's still there. This 432 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: guy is local. I agree completely, and it's a tragedy 433 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: that they did not the police did not pick up 434 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: on this. I mean, I hate to bash anybody in 435 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: second guess him. But there were opportunities to put that 436 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: description out to the public. That information needs to be 437 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: out immediately. They did call the FBI, which is what 438 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: they should have done, and they got the assistance because 439 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: the FBI is excellent at this type of crime. But 440 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: how they missed that, I have no idea if they 441 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: have got that unique description out of the public. I 442 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: agree he is probably a local, or was, at least 443 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: at the time time stories with Nancy Grace back to 444 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: Teresa English, just as Tica's mother. Teresa again, thank you 445 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: so much. Sometimes I hate to ask to speak to 446 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: you because I don't want to dredge everything back up again, 447 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: But yet I feel we have to. What do you 448 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: make of these reports of the white male with pot marks? 449 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, You've got a white male with 450 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: pot marks seeing that night, plowing through a crowd dragging 451 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: a little girl that matches Tica's description by the hand. 452 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: Then you see this guy, this freaky dude, a white 453 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: male with pop marks, showing up at the re enact 454 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: with America's most woman back at the bowling Alley. You 455 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: don't know how mad I was when I found out 456 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: this information. I was living, you know, knowing that this 457 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: young teenager came up to you know, called three days 458 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: later and said that he's seen who took Tica and 459 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: they did nothing about this nothing. I want to follow 460 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: up on what we're talking about. I guess you've all 461 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: heard of the missing and murdered Atlanta children, the Wayne 462 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: Williams case. The guy that brought me under his wing 463 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: when I joined the District Attorney's office was ahead of 464 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: the appeals division and he had worked on the Wayne 465 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: Williams case. My boss, mister Slayton, had tried the case 466 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: along with others. And one of the facts and let 467 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: me throw this out to you Del Carson and doctor 468 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, is that Wayne Williams the murderer. I think 469 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: of most of the missing and murdered young men, they 470 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: ranged in ages from like ten and eleven up to 471 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: twenty one. He fancied himself to be a freelance reporter, 472 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: and before anybody else would know about the missing child 473 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: or the body discovered, he would show up. It could 474 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: be three o'clock in the morning, could be six o'clock 475 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: in one and Wayne Williams would show up with a camera. 476 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: How the hey did he know, well, of course he 477 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: was the perpetrator. Well, yeah, the murtrator. And that's the 478 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: fact that a lot of people are saying, oh, way, 479 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: Williams didn't do it. He did it. Now, I don't 480 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: know if you did all of it, because once he 481 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: was convicted on some of them, a lot of other 482 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: murders were chalked up to him with similar emos. But 483 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: my point here is that people often return to the scene, 484 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: and there he was showing up with all the cops 485 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: with impunity because he had a handheld camera. And now 486 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: this shows back up at the Bowling alleysiding in plane fight. Nancy, 487 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: Why did they come back to the scene, Remember how 488 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson, We'll go back to San Francisco Bay and 489 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: look out on the water. I guess it was. Why 490 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: do I see him? Lacy was going to pop up. Well, 491 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: it's pleasure that drives them back. They want to enjoy 492 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: the results of their behavior. And more than that, we've 493 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: learned from this. The Bureau has learned from this since 494 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: the Wayne william case, in which I was directly involved. 495 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: Get back in Atlanta and I will simply tell you 496 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: that we now film funerals and a number of other things, 497 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: looking for the subject or the purp to show up again. 498 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: And it's interesting in connection with the America's Most Wanted 499 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: You wonder if they still have film and the cameras. 500 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: That's a really good tipt to look back into the 501 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: crowd to see if that individual is there. Because we understand, 502 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: and the detective Sergeant Mela will tell you this, we 503 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: understand that people get pleasure out of this. They want 504 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: to come and see what's happening. So their pleasure is 505 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: derived in part from actually witnessing the suffering of individuals 506 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: whom they have injured. Oh, doctor Angela Arnold, he said 507 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: it so perfectly. Can't you just see this guy coming 508 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: back and just luxuriating, like bathing in the reenactments and 509 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: enjoying seeing everyone there trying to solve the crime. And 510 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: in Pyche he knows that he took Tika, Yes, and 511 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: he got away with it. And it sounds like this 512 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: man got away with so many things. And as I 513 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: said a few minutes ago, living in plain sight of everyone, 514 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: so many clues, so many clues. You know, Nancy, what 515 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about, And I know this is too little, 516 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: too late. I think that some of these places should 517 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: have things that identify people as they come in, and 518 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: you can't just come and go willy nilly without people 519 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: know when you're there. You know how they you know 520 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: how at some places you have to have your arm 521 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: mark so that you can't leave with someone else's child. Yes, 522 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: I think some of these things need to be instituted 523 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: at places like Bowling Alley. You know they have that 524 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: a land go in without a child, and you know 525 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: at Chucky Cheese you have to get your arm mark. 526 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: Dear lord. Oh my husband, when I was doing Dancing 527 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: with the Stars behind my bat would take the twist 528 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: to Chuckie Cheese who lost John David every single time, 529 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: like four times. And when I found out there was 530 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: no more Chucky Cheese, that was it. He could not 531 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: see them in a crowd. No offense to David, He's 532 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: a saint, but it wasn't just that. Tyler, Let's play 533 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: zero zero c our friends at klim online. Tyler. Teen 534 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: years after Tika goes missing, cold case detectives for view 535 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: old police reports. They focus on those involving children who 536 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: had been approached by a stranger around the Bowling Alley. 537 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: There had been several the year before Tica disappear. A 538 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: man reported to security that his four year old son 539 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: had been assaulted in the restroom by a white man 540 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: with curly brown hair and a beard. A few weeks 541 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: before Tica disappeared, the mother of a six year old 542 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: boy stopped and attempted abduction of her son. The suspect 543 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: also described as a white male with brown hair. And 544 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: on the same day Tica went missing, there was another incident. 545 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: A man had taken his two children to the park 546 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: less than a mile away from New Frontier Lanes. He 547 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: saw a stranger near the bathrooms who was motioning for 548 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: the two children to come to him. The father chased 549 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: the man off. He was a white male with brown 550 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: hair wearing a baseball hat. He's never been identified at 551 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: this close proximity to the bowling alley. That is no coincidence. 552 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: I want you to hear Tica's father talking about when 553 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: Tica goes missing. This is Shelby Miller k I R O. Seven. 554 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: I've thought of my daughter every single day. January twenty third, 555 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, Robert Lewis's life changed forever. Police say 556 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: someone abducted his innocent, brown eyed baby girl from the 557 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: New Frontier Bowling Alley into Cooma. More than two decades later, 558 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: Robert hasn't given up. Hope. We sit there and rewatched 559 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: Blues Clues and she have her tweety bird slippers on, 560 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: and that's what I remember, just my little baby. Thursday 561 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: to come on. Police release new details about the investigation. 562 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: Detectives are searching for information about a white man who's 563 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: thirty to forty years old, has brown, curly hair, a mustache, 564 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: and pock marks on his face. They say he was 565 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: seen at the Bowling Alley the night the two year 566 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: old was abducted. These developments stopped Tika's father in his tracks. 567 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: Put me right back to nineteen ninety nine. Got the 568 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: phone call to Olivia la voice crime reporter with qute 569 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: thirteen Fox Again, Olivia, thank you for being with us. 570 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: A lot of the reporting has been done by you, 571 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the investigative work. Where does the case 572 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: stand right now? Olivia? You know, unfortunately there hasn't been 573 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: much movement with the case, which is incredibly disappointing because 574 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: when we released this new information over a year ago, 575 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: now about a year and a half ago, we really 576 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: thought this was going to be it. This suspect description 577 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: was surely going to get investigators some very solid leads 578 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: on who this suspect could be, and that just hasn't happened. 579 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: So I feel it's very important to keep that suspect 580 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: description out there to remind people this individual had a 581 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: deeply pockmarked face. Surely someone out there has to know 582 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: who we're describing. If you want to see a sketch 583 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: of the suspect, please go decrimeb online dot com. Also 584 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: you can see an age progressed sketch or photo of 585 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: Tika to Teresa English, Miss English, I know you have 586 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: other children, but there's no way to feel the empty 587 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: hole of Tica missing. Tell me how you get through 588 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: each day. If it wasn't from my other kids, I 589 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be here. You know, I have a missing 590 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: piece in my heart, you know, my everything is gone, 591 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: and the only thing that's going to put my heart 592 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: to hold is to find out what happened to my daughter. 593 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's been twenty two years old, my daughter's 594 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: about to turn twenty five, and I've been living a 595 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,919 Speaker 1: nightmare because I don't know what happened to my daughter, 596 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: you know, And is the police really working on my 597 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: daughter's case. No they're not, they're not. And all I've 598 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: asked for twenty two years is what happened to Tica? 599 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: Who took my baby? Who took her? Now they know, 600 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: they just need to find out who this man is. 601 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: They could have found her twenty two years ago. If 602 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: they wouldn't listened to this witness, they would have brought 603 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: him back in. This is a credible witness. This man 604 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: still remembers from day one about what this man looks like. 605 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: This man showed up. This should have been you know, 606 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: he showed up twice at the bowling alley. They should 607 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: have took that when people were coming forward saying, hey, 608 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: this is the guy. We need to find out who 609 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: this man is. Where is Pica? Where is she? If 610 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: she's not out here? No more, we just want to 611 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 1: find out where she's at. What did you do with her? 612 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: All we want is closure, and we've been asking that 613 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: for twenty two years now. All we want is closure. 614 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: If you know or even think you know anything regarding 615 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: the white mail brand, down hair, heavily pot marked face. 616 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: If you think you know anything, please dial two five 617 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: three five nine one fifty nine fifty nine repeat two 618 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: five three five nine one fifty nine fifty nine or 619 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: crime Stoppers, which is eight hundred two two two tips 620 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. Our prayers, 621 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: Fatika go on, but we want justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story, 622 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye Frien