1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day one forty 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: two since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Today's main story. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: Scientists have been focused on studying virus antibodies to develop 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: a vaccine, but encouraging new research shows our bodies may 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: be developing other weapons that could be key to slowing 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: the outbreak. But first, here's what happened in virus news today. 7 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Vietnam confirmed its first death from the pandemic after a 8 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: sudden cluster of cases emerged in the coastal city of 9 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: Da Nang. For more than three months, the country appeared 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: to have beaten back the virus. The death of a 11 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: seventy year old man comes seven months after the nation 12 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: recorded its first virus cases. The US government pledged its 13 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: biggest investment yet in a vaccine. The Trump administration will 14 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: provide as much as two point one billion dollars in 15 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: funding to vaccine partners Sunafi and Glaxo Smith Klein. The 16 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: funding will support clinical trials and manufacturing, while allowing the 17 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: US to secure one million doses of the shot if 18 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: it's successful. The country has an option to receive an 19 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: additional five hundred million doses. Longer term, the US has 20 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: made billions of dollars and commitments to other experimental vaccines, 21 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: stoking concerns that some countries will be left behind. In England, 22 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: more than four million people are being forced inside a 23 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: large part of the country's northern region must comply with 24 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: new tighter lockdown rules. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is rushing 25 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: to tackle a new spike in cases, and his administration 26 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: has forbidden residents in the Greater Manchester area and parts 27 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: of East Lancashire and West Yorkshire from meeting indoors with 28 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: members of other households. And now for today's main story. 29 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: In the race to study immunity to the virus, scientists 30 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: first focused on antibodies, proteins that stick to and disable 31 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: foreign invaders. That's because creating antibodies is the basis for 32 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: most successful vaccines, so scientists are interested in learning who 33 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: develops coronavirus antibodies, how long they stick around, and how 34 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: effective they are keeping people from getting infected again. But 35 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: recent studies show there may be another weapon inside the 36 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: human body that can rouse fresh antibodies soldiers long after 37 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: the first have left the battlefield. Bloomberg Senior editor Jason 38 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: Gale explains that T cells may be part of the 39 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: key to blunting the coronavirus contagion. Let's start with the 40 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: antibody tests. That is, the possibility of an antibody test 41 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: and showing that COVID antibodies fade quickly, but it's still 42 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: not known if an antibody response will give future imming 43 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: the antibodies. What does that mean? It means these are 44 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about antibodies during the pandemic. Having 45 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: specific antibodies against sarsko V two may prevent us from 46 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: catching the virus again. Some governments have suggested that they 47 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: could serve as the basis for an immunity passport or 48 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: risk free certificate that would enable people to travel or 49 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: to return to work, assuming they are protected against reinfection. 50 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: Problem is, there's currently no evidence that people who have 51 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: recovered from COVID nineteen and to have antibodies are protected 52 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: from a second infection. Scientists think they probably do, but 53 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: there's no proof. What's more, these antibodies don't appear to 54 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: stick around lock, at least in people who have had 55 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: a mold b out of the disease. Researchers in Los 56 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: Angeles reported last week the rapid decay of anti Saskvy 57 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: to antibodies and patients who had a mild case of 58 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. They said their findings, published in the New 59 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: England Journal of Medicine, suggested we should treat with caution. 60 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: The idea of immunity passports, as well as the durability 61 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: of any vaccines that are produced, sounds kind of depressing, right, Well, 62 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: maybe not when it comes to the immune system. Antibodies 63 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: aren't a solo act. They're part of an entire orchestra 64 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: of immune defenders that collectively make up our white blood cells. 65 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: In the front row are the innate crew that respond 66 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: to a viral infection immediately and crudely. Then there's a 67 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: more sophisticated bunch of adaptive immune responders that remember what 68 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: games there fought in case they have to do battle 69 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: with them again. Antibodies are one component of that adaptive 70 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: immune response which immunization seeks to create without causing any disease, 71 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: Which are the plants that are made from the cells 72 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: and the ones that bind to a virus and neutralize. 73 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: This is Professor Alessandro setting He's a researcher at Lahoya 74 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: Institute for Immunology in San Diego who has been studying 75 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: the immune system for some forty five years. So if 76 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: you have a high level of antibodies, you can neutralize 77 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: the virus and avoid infection. Alessandro is interested in another 78 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: component of the adaptive immune system, T cells. We recognize 79 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: and destroy effect itselves. This is very important because when 80 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: you have an infection, when a virus gets inside the cell, 81 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: it becomes an invisible for antibodies. We antibodies cannot get 82 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: to it anymore. He's getting inside the cell. Some T 83 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: cells directly kill these virally infected cells. Others play a 84 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: support role, helping to regulate the immune system and remember 85 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: microbial foes. Without a helper T cells, the antibody response 86 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: is weak. Uh, it doesn't find very strongly, doesn't last 87 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: very long. Good news is that Alexandro and his colleagues 88 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: have found that when people are infected with sisk V two, 89 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: they amount a strong T cell response, and unexpectedly, he 90 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: found some people who had never encountered sarask v two 91 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: also had T cells that recognized the pandemic strain, which 92 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: was odd since this is a completely new virus, and 93 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: so this was very puzzling and we we looked at 94 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: this data from right from left, from top from bottom, 95 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: and we really became convinced that this was absolutely real. 96 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: Scientists in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and Singapore have reported 97 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: the same thing, so it's really all over uh, different 98 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: groups and different continents. So this was remarkable. So how 99 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: do you explain how someone whose immune system has never 100 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: seen this coronavirus before as some memory of it. And 101 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: the most reasonable hypothesis, but we want to emphasize that 102 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: this is an hypothesis at this point, is that this 103 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: is due to exposure to common called coronaviruses. There are 104 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: four of them in circulation that caused the usual sore 105 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: throat coffin running knows that we routinely experience in winter. 106 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: Alessandre says Sis givy two is like a cousin of 107 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: these less dangerous coronaviruses. This viruses evil cousin common called corona. 108 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: So if you've seen this other viruses recently, maybe you 109 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: have a little bit of cross ripping. In other words, 110 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: if you have encountered one of these cold causing coronavirus 111 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: is recently, could it give you at least partial immunity. 112 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: Alexandra says scientists are looking into this and are especially 113 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: interested in studying people living on an island off the 114 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: coast of Tuscany, where the incidents of COVID nineteen was 115 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: very low, despite infected travelers from mainland Italy bringing it across. 116 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: That island was reported to have had the year before 117 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: particularly bad common called the season, and so some of 118 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: the people I talked there were speculated, well, maybe this 119 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: has something to do, and I think that they were, uh, 120 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: trying to set up and starting to look at this 121 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: and more details. Alessandra says more research is needed to 122 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: determine whether pre existing T cells that cross react with 123 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: the Sasko V two virus may explain why some COVID 124 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: patients are barely affected while others get very sick and 125 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: even die. Figuring out the role of cells in protecting 126 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: against COVID it's pretty important since these white blood cells 127 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: will be critical for achieving durable immune protection from many 128 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: vaccines that are developed. The immune system is all about memory, 129 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: and so is vaccination. You create a memory, so if 130 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: maybe you have a pre existing little bit of memory response, 131 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: your immune system has a head start compare to someone 132 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't. We still don't know yet whether it's possible 133 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: to develop vaccines that will stimulate potent antibodies against aus 134 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: COVID two and prevent someone from getting COVID nineteen. According 135 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: to Alessandro, the hope is that immunization will at least 136 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: generate an immune response that lessens the severity of disease 137 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: and the time it takes to recover from the infection, 138 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: and this should go some way to blunt the pandemic. 139 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: That was Jason Gale, and that's it for our show today. 140 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: For coverage of the outbreak from one hundred and twenty 141 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: beers around the world, visit Bloomberg dot com Flash Coronavirus 142 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please leave us a 143 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: review and a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's 144 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: the best way to help more listeners find our global reporting. 145 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: The Prognosis Daily edition is produced by Tophor Foreheads, Jordan Gaspure, 146 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: Magnus Henrickson, and Ni Laura Carlson. Today's main story was 147 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: reported by Jason Gale. Original music by Leo Sedrin. Our 148 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,599 Speaker 1: editors are Rick Shine and Francesca Levi. Francesca Levi is 149 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Thanks for listening.