WEBVTT - Tormented by Harvey Weinstein and Survived to Tell About It with Sarah Ann Masse 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:04.760 Today we hear from Sarah Anne Massey, who, like many others, 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:09.040 was assaulted by Harvey Weinstein. The full circle moment is 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.320 that Sarah Anne had a role in the film She 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.759 said about the investigation on Harvey Weinstein's sexual harassment, assault 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.720 and abuse of numerous women. What happens when speaking out 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.800 means giving up dreams, aspirations, and a lifetime of work. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.680 Sarah Anne takes us through what her experience of trauma 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.680 survivorship looks like. This podcast should not be used as 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:40.680 a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:46.199 advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and or therapy 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.280 from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:57.160 mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:04.400 this podcast. This episode discusses abuse, which may be triggering 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:09.840 to some people. The views and opinions expressed are solely 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.680 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:20.559 and do not represent the opinions of Red Table Talk productions, iHeartMedia, 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:26.560 or their employees. Sarah and Massey. Welcome to Navigating Narcissism. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.520 It is such a pleasure and honor to have you on. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.119 You're doing some really amazing and important things in the industry. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.000 And before we get to all of that, I would 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:39.319 like to start with your backstory, which in this year, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.840 when the films She Said Just came out, you were 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:49.280 assaulted by Harvey Weinstein, and from there some really extraordinary 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.040 things happened in your story and in your career. So 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.320 I'd like to start at the beginning, Sarah Ann, and 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.200 I'd like to ask you how did you become acquainted 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.680 with Harvey Weinstein. I had just moved to New York. 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.920 I was a young theater actor, and I had started 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.840 my own theater company, and you know, I was sort 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.240 of trying to do that thing I'd been dreaming of 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.680 since I was a little girl. And I was a 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.639 nanny as my day job. You know, all my friends 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.240 were waiters and bartenders, but I loved kids. And after 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:18.920 living in New York for a little while, I realized 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.600 my one part time nannying job was not enough to 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.920 cover all of my bills. So I looked for a 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.200 second job. And I found a nanning agency and they 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.919 sort of catered to like, you know, higher net worth clientele, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:33.480 and I thought it would be good. I could get 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.639 a part time job and make some more money and 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:40.160 continue to support my acting. So they contacted me and said, 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.320 we have a client who we think would be really 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.280 good for you. They work in the entertainment industry, and 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.560 we know that you've worked with clients so we're in 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.520 the entertainment industry before, and would you be interested in 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.040 meeting with them? And I said, yeah, sure, and they said, okay, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.240 it's a producer named Harvey Weinstein, and I said, oh, yeah, 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.720 of course I know who that is, you know, biggest 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.400 producer in the country. And I didn't really think twice 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.079 about it. I'm not someone who gets star struck or uncomfortable, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.280 and I'm used to being around folks who work in 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.400 the industry, and I thought it would be good because 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.640 I understood the world that he was coming from. And 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.760 I've always made it very clear that, like I draw 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.119 a very fine line between or not a fine line, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.360 a very bright line between my acting work and my 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.240 nanning work, so there was never any concern about, you know, 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.320 having it be like a conflict of interest or anything. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.400 So they thought I should go out on the interview, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.080 and prior to meeting with Harvey, I actually had a 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.960 few interviews with two of his female assistants in New York, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.360 and they took me out to breakfast and they sort 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.600 of explained how the job would work, and at the 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.760 time I didn't think anything of it, but they kept 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:50.040 mentioning how discretion was very important, and I thought, well, sure, 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.880 he'll have famous people around, and they don't want me 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.000 selling photographs off my phone to the paparazzie. I get it. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.240 Totally makes sense, I understand. And they explained to me 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.000 that I would have to go to Connecticut for the interview, 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.040 go to his home in Connecticut, and that I would 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.240 be meeting with him and his children at his home, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.240 which is when I used to with Nanning. Almost always 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.560 go to the person's home and you meet with them 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.359 in the family, and so I felt comfortable. I felt confident. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.320 They had mentioned a few times that they wanted to 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.240 make sure that me being an actor wasn't going to 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.680 be a problem, and I said to them what I 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.960 said to you, I would never utilize my position as 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.560 a nanny to try to advance my career. I keep 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.240 a very clear delineation between those two worlds, and they 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.920 seemed really comfortable with that. So I grew up in 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.919 Connecticut So I went to my parents' house in Connecticut, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.000 and I was preparing for the interview, and the night 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.240 before I got contacted by one of the assistants and said, 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.800 I'm not going to be able to be there, sorry, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.919 but let me know how it goes. So I was 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.000 expecting this assistant to be there, and again I thought, Okay, 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.240 it'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I've been 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.280 on a million of these interviews before. And then I 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.560 walked into to essentially what had been a trap that 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.560 would set for me at his home, and he just 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.760 was the furthest thing from professional. He opened the door 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.040 in his underwear. And at this point, I'm parked in 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.560 this driveway that's a mile from the street, behind a 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.640 huge locked gate, And I thought he probably forgot about 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.680 the interview, and it was a weekend and he was 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.520 relaxing in his house and would be embarrassed and would 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.479 excuse himself to change before we did the interview. You know, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.479 I'm young, and I'm naive, and I am trusting and 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.479 not assuming anything nefarious is happening. But he did not. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.799 He condicted the entire interview in his underwear. He asked 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.680 me about my acting, which I was one of the 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.920 first things I felt uncomfortable about. He wanted to see 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.719 my resume and headshot, and because I always carried the 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.400 same bag with me to auditions sort of interviews, I 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.560 had them, and so I gave them to him, and 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.279 he was asking me a lot about that, and I 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.240 kept trying to redirect, and at one point I thought 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.159 we were completely alone, and I started feeling more and 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.560 more uncomfortable. Again. I had no real way to get out. 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:03.599 And at one point two if his children ran in, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.680 and I felt relief. I thought, Okay, okay, we're gonna 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.919 get back on track. It's going to be fine. And 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.680 the second they came into the room, he turned like 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.120 night and day. He went from I think he was 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:20.400 attempting to be charming to being this roaring monster, screaming 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.640 at his children to leave the room, to leave us alone, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.479 to not come back, and until I had left, that 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.200 we must be left alone. And that's when I knew 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.000 I was in definitive danger. When they left, he shifted 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.480 right back right here, this flipped anger switch, going from 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.720 an attempt to be charming or flirtatious too rageful. Sarah 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.320 Ann amazingly picked up on it and recognize she was 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.040 in danger. But it is remarkable how often this flip 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.359 is missed or justified. Well regulated people keep things even keeled. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.880 But if a person is attempting to dominate a situation 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.120 and are interrupted in that, well, that's precisely the kind 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.560 of situation that will flip the switch of an antagonistic person. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.320 And he started sexually harassing me. He started asking me 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.200 if I would ever use sex to get ahead in 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.440 my acting career. He started asking me if I would 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.320 ever flirt with or sleep with his friends to get 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.560 ahead in my acting career. Both times I answered definitively no. 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.920 I was clearly offended by the question, and he kept 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.400 asking me questions and I was sort of at this 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.040 point really having this trauma response of freezing and panicking 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.640 and just trying to stay calm. And he stood up, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.560 and I thought, Okay, either he's going to let me 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.600 go or he's going to attack me. Hopefully this is 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.720 the end of the interview. And I get out and 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.200 he approached me, and I thought he was going to 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.880 shake my hand, and he grabbed me and he pulled 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.120 me in and he pressed his genitals against me and 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.120 he held me really tight and really long, and I 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.920 was just completely frozen. And I don't know how long 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.960 it lasted. It felt like it lasted hours. It was 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.200 probably seconds or minutes. And he whispered that he loved me, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:04.560 and then he let me go and he let me 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.080 out the door. And I really don't know how to 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.920 explain the level of fear that I was experiencing, because, 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.600 like I said, I'm young, I'm alone, I'm locked behind 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.480 this gain on this compound. Nobody could hear me, nobody 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.320 could help me. And I think the thing that really 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.920 sticks out to me is I remember driving there very clearly, 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.560 because like I said, I grew up there. I knew 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.600 the roads, I knew exactly where I was going once 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.520 I saw the address, and when I left, the last 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.360 thing I remember is looking down at my feet on 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.880 the driveway. I don't remember driving home. I don't remember 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.560 how I got back to my parents' house. I clearly 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.480 was just completely shutting down. And the next thing I 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.319 remember is like being mid sentenced talking to my mom. 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.760 She had clearly asked me how things went and saw 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.160 that I looked upset, and yeah, it was like, I mean, 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.600 even now, it's such a long time later, just retelling 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.920 this story, I'm so activated and I have to try 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.320 to remind my brain that I'm not in that place anymore. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.000 I'm safe now. But it was really terrifying, and you know, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.400 it's not the first I had been abused by a man, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.079 and it wasn't the last time. And I think some 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.880 people when they hear about trauma or abuse, they sort 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.320 of rank it in their minds and they go, well, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.880 it wasn't rape, so you lucked out. And I even 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.760 had that idea in my head, like, oh, it could 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.079 have been worse. But two months prior to this, I 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.840 was raped, And I have to say the level of 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.120 trauma is very similar, and the long term impacts with 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.880 what Harvey did to me are very extreme. It had 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.880 a really intense impact on my career, on my health. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.400 I developed chronic illnesses, on my mental health, I lost 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.880 a lot of time in my career and face economic harm. 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:39.480 And I think people need to sort of be more 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.160 aware of the fact that the power dynamics at play 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.679 can have a really big impact and having no expectation 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.640 of that going in, there was no preparation that I 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.840 might be in danger, that somebody might try to sexualize 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:52.800 me and sexually assault me. So I think that really 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.520 means that for me, I was so unprepared that it 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.479 came as such a shock and such a terrifying experience 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.680 that it really impacted me for very time. Your nervous 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.880 system was already living into the next thing that could 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.000 conceivably happen. What we forget is that the brain is 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.440 always saying, Okay, this terrible thing is about to happen, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.440 and the reaction, the cascade that happens in our body 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.440 is as though it does happen. So when in that moment, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.240 you didn't know how bad it was going to get. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.920 So the terror you experienced was the terror of trauma, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.800 which is so linked into uncertainty, What's going to happen next? 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.000 Am I going to die? Which is often the question 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.560 people ask themselves. You also then bring up the next 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.720 piece of trauma we don't talk about enough, which is 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.000 we often think of trauma as an episode, a thing 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.640 that happens, an episode that happens, and as you describe it, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.520 the impact of this episode lasted for years and years 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.280 and years. And when people say, well, that was a day, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.120 it was an afternoon, it was an hour, really could 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.040 it be affecting you ten fifteen years later, to which 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.320 it is a resounding yes. And not only did it 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.360 affect you structurally, We're going to get to how this 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.920 affected your career because of how the entertainment industry is set. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.600 It affected you physically, It affected your mental health. That 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.880 episode that other people would say it was just an 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.280 hour time doesn't follow the usual rules when it comes 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.840 to mental health, and that hour became something that would 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.319 echo through your life. So I really appreciate you talking 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.160 about not just the moment, but how far that reaches 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.280 and in any relationship, when somebody has that kind of betrayal, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.440 and that was a betrayal you went in there with trust, 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.080 It's very, very impactful. I want to ask you, in 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.319 the aftermath of that, it sounds like you went home 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.040 and talk to your mother. Did you share with your 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.440 mother what happened? I did, and she is one of 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.160 the only people I actually told. And it was really 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.079 interesting watching her as I spoke, because you know, I 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.120 think she could tell something was off, but I think 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.360 she also knew that he had a reputation being kind 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.200 of like a tough boss, so I think maybe she 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.600 was thinking more along those lines. And as I told 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.160 her what happened, beat by beat, I saw her face 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.920 fall and I saw it hit her. And it was 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.960 validating actually to see that, because the praying does a 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.560 lot of funny things in the aftermath of trauma. And 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.959 I've learned a lot about the neurobiology of trauma over 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.360 the years, and you try to make sense of what 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.480 happened to you, and you try to make it okay 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.240 and make yourself feel safe again. And so seeing her 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.520 react and hearing her react as though this was not okay, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.920 not normal, that he had done something wrong, validated for 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.320 me all of those feelings that I had, And I 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.880 think that's really important. You know, not all of us 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.880 get that when we disclosed for the first time. We 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.920 don't always get support and belief, and so I feel 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.040 very grateful that I had that. But having said that, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.079 you know, she didn't say anything about and I didn't 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.880 think about going to the police or even reporting it 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.920 to the nannying agency. I didn't even know how to begin, 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.439 how to talk about it. And I was instantly afraid 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.720 of the impact it would have on my life if 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.400 I told people my life, my career, all of it. 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.240 That was such a huge fear for me for such 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.439 a long time that I did just keep it quiet, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.360 and a few people who are very close to me knew. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:11.959 And that was it when this happened to you. And 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:13.760 you again, when I go back to what you said, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.960 is that many people go through something like this and 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.840 they have nowhere to take it right. I shuddered to 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:24.600 think how much unreported trauma, unshared stories of abuse, not 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.640 just in the entertainment industry and all industries, workplaces, in 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.560 life in general. How much has been unsaid and how 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.120 much people carry this pain within them throughout their lives. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.800 Having that place, like you said, it was important, it's 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.600 not enough. And then on top of that, you had 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.600 to make these calculations in your head, these decisions of 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.000 if I talk about this more, then these other things 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.360 can happen. You're a young person, and that's all very 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.760 real people say, Oh, may just being anxious. You don't 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.360 being anxious, You're being realistic. When this happened to you, 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.960 Sarah Ann, At this time, though none of this story 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.800 had broken, so all we knew was I guess some 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.160 people knew that Harvey Weinstein was just an angry dude 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.920 and had a lot of bluster, as a boss. That 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.559 seemed to be the talk you know, around the industry, 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.200 but none of the rest of this had come out. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.800 You didn't have a context to places him, And am 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.560 I right about that? That's completely right. I do think 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.800 there are some people who were, you know, within his 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.480 sphere who knew what he was doing. Of course, of course, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.400 and there's been this narrative, oh everybody knew. But I 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.320 can tell you, as a young actor who had just 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.960 moved to New York, I didn't know, and I didn't 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.560 know a lot of other actresses who were you know. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:37.960 I was just starting to dip my tone into film 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.760 and TV like that was my dream, was to move 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.920 into that next chapter. I didn't have other people to 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.200 talk about this with. I didn't feel safe too, so 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.160 I had no idea. It wasn't until the New York 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.400 Times story broke that I knew I wasn't alone. That 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.440 was almost ten years later. So how did you feel 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.120 in that moment? So this thing you've been carrying within you, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.120 this trauma, in the pain it caused you, you shared 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:02.920 it with your mother, but with no one else, and 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.240 you're making your way in this industry. I remember the 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.480 day that story came out, you know, and I did 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.800 not have the direct impact of it, and I almost 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.280 dropped the paper at the time. How did you feel 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.160 when you read that story? It was really surreal. I 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.720 was in Europe at the time. My husband is British 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.840 and we were over there visiting family, and we were 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.760 about to film a short film that I had written 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.960 and was acting in. And I saw the story and 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.480 I felt equal parts just destroyed that this had happened 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.240 to so many people, but also relieved that I wasn't alone, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.640 and a sense of Okay, if we're finally talking about this, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.320 maybe finally he'll be held accountable for what happened. Maybe 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.320 I won't have to be afraid anymore. Maybe I can 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.600 move through this industry in a way that feels safer. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.280 Because I had put my career off, I had a 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.840 really big head start. I didn't go to college. I 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.080 trained at a professional acting school in New York. I 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.520 was the youngest person they had ever accepted, started my 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.840 own theater company, had started like trying to take meetings 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.240 with agents, and when Harvey did what he did to me, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.320 I pulled way back. I didn't feel safe going into 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.320 audition rooms and meeting rooms with strange men who I 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.240 didn't know. I was afraid he might be in a 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.560 room that I entered into. So I kept creating. I 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.320 kept making theater with people I trusted. But I really 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.600 lost a lot of time. And it was only when 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.280 I met my husband. We started working together, We started 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.920 writing comedy together and creating together, and I suddenly felt 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.120 safe again because he would go with me to auditions, 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.000 he would go with me to meetings. I knew I 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.040 had somebody there if something went wrong, And so I 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:40.160 just started getting my career back and I felt hopeful 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.480 that this would be a shift, this would be a change. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.760 And as the days progressed and more and more stories 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.480 came out, again completely sickened that this had been going 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.640 on for thirty years and there were so many people, 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.080 but also hopeful, we're finally talking about this, We're finally 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.400 taking this out of the shadows. Maybe things can finally change. 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.680 The New York Times story coming out lead you to 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.280 feel like you could speak out. Yeah, exactly that. And 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.000 it was funny. I thought at first I would just 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.600 write on my Facebook like sort of the broad strokes 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.800 of what had happened to me. I thought, Okay, all 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.080 my Facebook friends will hear what happened and they'll know, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.240 and it'll be off my chest. And that's that. I'm 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.639 not famous. I'm not going to talk to the press 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:22.879 like you know. But a friend of mine saw what 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.440 I wrote and asked me if I would be willing 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.800 to talk to the press, and I wasn't sure, but 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.119 I said I'd talked to someone off the record, and 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.840 I did, and I felt comfortable. I felt like my 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.800 story would be safe in her hands, and I allowed 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.480 Variety to publish again the big beats of what had 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.399 happened to me. As you know, it takes time to 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.600 fully process when you start retelling your narrative and finding 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.159 all of the strength to talk about the details. So 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.320 I shared sort of the broad beats of my story 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.920 and I thought that would be it. But I kept 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.639 getting press requests. And I was lucky to be filming 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.720 this movie at the time because I could sort of 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.720 escape onto my set and my whole crew knew what 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.520 was happening, and they were really protective of me and 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.960 made me feel safe. And so it felt a little 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.679 bit like a nice bookend to be talking about this 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.760 thing that had held me back for so long while 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.960 creating and making art and doing something I really believed in. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.080 So I felt encouraged. At first. I didn't feel afraid 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.479 that there would be the retaliation that I was so 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.680 afraid of for a decade, because we were all telling 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.600 our stories together and it looked like he was going 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.280 to lose his job, and so I thought, surely, what 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.960 could possibly happen now, what could go wrong? Now? Nobody 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.360 could hold it against us. I mean, it's I think 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.439 now one hundred and eleven people have officially gone on 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.920 the record about Harvey abusing them. So what did happen 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.879 after you spoke out in variety? Well, for about a 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.360 month and a half, I had nothing but support, you know, friends, family, 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.600 strangers all would write to me and thank me for 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.480 coming forward. And that was one reason I wanted to 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.520 share my story is yes, I was an actress, but 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.239 it also happened in the context of domestic work, and 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.520 I think that's domestic workers are so often abused and 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.280 those stories don't get told very frequently. So I wanted 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.680 to share that to hopefully give other people a sense 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.520 that they weren't alone and what they were going through. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.600 So I felt good about it. I felt okay and 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.560 I felt empowered to keep speaking. I had always been 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.000 very passionate about these issues, you know, ending sexual violence 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.840 and gender based violence, and now to be able to 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.720 contextualize why it mattered so much to me personally felt 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.639 good and like I could do some good. And I 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.760 met a lot of other survivors and we started talking 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.280 about trying to do work together, advocacy work together. But 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.640 then about a month and a half after, I got 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.119 a call from my agent at the time, and she 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.600 told me that she was getting angry phone calls from 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.800 casting directors that I needed to stop already, I'd already 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.199 told my story. Enough was enough that I was going 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.800 to be blacklisted. And it was like all of my 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:54.520 fears coming true. And I chose to believe that this 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.920 was her operating from her own place of fear, and 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.840 that surely this couldn't possibly really happen. Maybe, okay, maybe 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.360 she got a phone caller too, but it would be okay. 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.120 I had just moved to la at this point, and 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.040 I was getting probably about a half a dozen auditions 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:10.800 a month, which is good for moving to a new 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.920 market and having a small agent. And I watched that 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.720 dry up very quickly and It's now five years later, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.800