1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry, and we're all looking 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: vibrant and healthy and just so alive and sexy. And 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: that makes the stuff you should know. Jerry's coat is shining, 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: it is. She's got that high pro glow, high pro glow. 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? I do? Uh? And you know 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: we give our dogs the um this salmon juice that 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: comes in a squirt bottle. Whoa, it's like, you know, 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: like salmon skin oil, and that makes their coat shiny 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: and it smells like salmon skin, which I love. That's cool. Uh. 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: You me straight up cooks salmon with the skin on 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: for momo, Like that's what she has has cooked food 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: for dinners. Yeah, I mean I love salmon skin. It's 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: the best thing ever. It's so good. I just love 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: love um like raw salmon. Chuck, I like that too, 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: Like it's smoked too. Sure, sure what else? Injectable salmon? 18 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: Stick it in my neck? You go. You end up 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: with kind of like a requiem for a dream thing 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: going on. That's right. Uh, But you know this all 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: dovetails and antioxidants. I think it does because I think 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: if you eat a lot of raw salmon, especially good stuff, 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, nothing grown in a toxic sewage dump, you're 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: gonna live a really, really long time. And we've known 25 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: it for a very long time that if you eat 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: healthy food, you're probably going to age a lot better 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: or a lot more. You're going to stay a lot 28 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: healthier as you age than say you would if you 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: just ate chunk for the whole time. It seems like 30 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: a no brainer. But along the way, a lot of 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: people have stopped to ask exactly why that might be. UM, 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: and we should say shout out to our book UM, 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: which has an entire chapter, chapter eight, on aging. It's 34 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: called Aging Colon Do We Gotta? And it's a pretty 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: good one if I do say so. I think the 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: first line of that chapter says, avoid sewer salmon. That's 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: precisely right. I mean, that's just some of the best 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: advice anyone could ever give anybody. It's a T shirt. 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: So UM. A lot of people, like I was saying, 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: have stopped and asked, like why, why, you know, why 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: would food help you? And obviously we need food for fuel, 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: But it turns out that, especially in the nineties, a 43 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: lot of food kind of hit the scene. Well, the 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: food was already there, but they were promoted a different 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: way thanks to some some recent findings that decided that 46 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: food that are high in antioxidants um would help you 47 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: age a lot better, possibly prolong your life, and prevent 48 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: certain kinds of age related diseases, everything from cancer to 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: neuro degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's, just from meeting the foods 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: you ate, and it all seemed to have something to 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: do with those antioxidants, and that concept took off like 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: our rocket, and it's still around today. Actually. Yeah, and 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: this is when listeners are saying, oh God, are Josh 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: and Chuck gonna tell us now that science says antioxidants 55 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: aren't good too? And we well, let's just hang on 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: to that. You'll find out by the end of the episode. Yeah, 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: that's the people to stick around. That's the big reveal. 58 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: Let's give him some mcguffin's chuck. Uh. Yeah. Well, the 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: point of the whole intro here, though, is that it 60 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: was a big marketing blitz. Everything from blueberries to kale. 61 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: I mean, good lord, we had kale rammed down our throat, 62 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: like figuratively and literally for the past decade plus, um vitamins, 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: multi vitamins, vitamin E, vitamin C, beta caroteen, just all 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: of these superfoods, green tea of course, which we talked about. 65 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: And we're not saying these things aren't good for you. 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: These are all great, great things to eat, um, but 67 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: they were being touted as being high in antioxidants and 68 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: it will help you age and it will help you 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: combat something that everyone just heard the words free radicals 70 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: and and consumer said, well, I don't like the sound 71 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, exact, let's let's let's kill them even 72 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: though we don't understand them. Someone literally shoved kale down 73 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: your throat once. Yeah, you've never gone to that restaurant. 74 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: No kale shove kaloe me crazy? That explains a lot, yea, 75 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: it's I mean, kale's fine, but kale chips. Don't eat 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: more than like ten of them or you'll get sick 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: to your stomach. Yeah, what mean? So um, the you 78 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: hit upon this whole point. It's it's not so much 79 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: that antioxidants are good for you, it's that free radicals 80 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: are bad for you. That was the premise of this 81 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: whole thing in the nineties. And this idea of free 82 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: radicals is rooted in some really deep science and and 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: had a lot of scientific backing for really long time. 84 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: And I guess to kind of to get a little 85 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: bit of this out there, like science way overshot itself. 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: There was a really good, sensible hypothesis, and the scientific 87 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: community ran with it, and then they started doing studies. 88 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: And it wasn't entirely just the scientific community. Um, it 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: was largely those same marketers who were making money off 90 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: these super foods, you know that they could slap a 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: label on there. Now. It just got overhyped before before 92 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: the data was fully in. And my for my money though, 93 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: like once the data started coming in, it got even 94 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: more interesting. But let's just go back to the beginning 95 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: of all this, because like I was saying, free radicals 96 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: formed the basis for this whole thing, And there's this 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: whole idea that it's called the free radical theory of aging. 98 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: And it turns out that the guy who came up 99 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: with this was an m d. But he became and 100 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: he became interested in all of this when he was 101 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: a biochemist working for Shell Oil, developing things like pesticide strips. 102 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: The no pest strip, very famous kind of pesticide strip 103 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: of the United States, was developed by this guy named 104 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: Dr denhim harmon Um back in the fifties. And also 105 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: in the fifties he came up with that free radical 106 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: theory of aging. Yeah, so he was working at Shell 107 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: and one of the things that he was doing at 108 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: the time was working on chemical additives. That would you know, 109 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: they found out that sulfur and phosphorus were getting spoiled. 110 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: These compounds were breaking down in the oil and they 111 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: were really degrading over time because of free radical chain reactions. 112 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: And they learned back then, and this is pretty amazing 113 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: for the midnighteteen fifties, uh, that there was something called 114 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: uh free radicals, these reactive particles that would take electrons 115 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: from other atoms, and then those atoms would then say, well, 116 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm on, I'm out of whack. Now 117 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: I want to steal some electrons to get back in 118 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: balance again. So it started this chain reaction where each 119 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: neighbor was getting their electrons stolen, and then the case 120 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: of oil, this sulfur and phosphorus would just continue to 121 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: break down until it was just gross. It was basically worthless. 122 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: So he's studying this stuff. He reads an article in 123 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: the Ladies Home Journal called Tomorrow you May be Younger, 124 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: and he was like, wait a minute, and he was like, 125 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm studying these free radicals. It's breaking down oil. We 126 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: have cells in our body. Uh. We know that that 127 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: the atomic bomb and X rays and all that kind 128 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 1: of radiation really increases the free radicals in your body. 129 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: And you should see somebody after an atomic bomb. And 130 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: he put two and two together and he was like, 131 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: this is it. This is why we're aging. It's all 132 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: because these free radicals. Yeah, that the damage that they 133 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: do builds up over time, and once you reach a 134 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: certain point, that's your expiration date. But then along the way, 135 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: your systems start breaking down before the first cat astrophic 136 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: one fails completely, say like your heart giving out, and 137 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: that is aging. Everything from you know, loose saggy skin, 138 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: to um a build up of plaque in your in 139 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: your arteries, or your hardening of your arteries. That all 140 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: of this is an accumulation of the damage done by 141 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: these free radicals, which are again just simply a particle 142 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: that has an unpaired electron. So it can take someone 143 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: else's electron or can donate that electron. But either way, 144 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: it makes things that are normally stable, like the lining 145 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: of cells that gives cells their structure, unstable, and bad 146 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: things can happen to that. So doctor dr um Harmon 147 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: basically figured out that he had he had stumbled upon 148 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: the reason that we age and die, and when you 149 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: do something like that, you can take steps to mitigate it. 150 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: And this kicked off at the very beginning, the free 151 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: radical theory of aging. That took a few decades for 152 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: people to pick up on it, though, and like an 153 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: immediate thing that took off. Huh yeah, he was like, 154 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get so rich on this right. Eventually he 155 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: kept checking his watch. Uh so, maybe we should go 156 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: do a little biology class primer for everyone to make 157 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: it a little more understandable. It's really kind of simple stuff. 158 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: But if you remember back in biology class, you probably 159 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: remember learning about the Crebs cycle capital K R, E, B, 160 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: S and S salbot. Geez. Here we go cellular respiration. 161 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: And the whole thing with respiration in the cells is 162 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: the whole point is to turn glucose into energy. And 163 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: that's pretty easy. We all understand that. Uh, we turn 164 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: that sugar into working energy for the body. It's our 165 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: metabolism at work, and this CREB cycle is that metabolic 166 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: process of doing so, of turning those glucose molecules into 167 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: something called a DNA scene triphosphate a t P, which 168 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: is like the fuel for the cells. Um. The thing 169 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: is is during this CRIB cycle, one of the one 170 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: of the by products or one of the products of it, 171 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: I guess, is free radicals, which is put a pin 172 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: in that because that's important. Your body when it under 173 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: undertakes its most important process, which is cellular respiration, UM, 174 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: it produces free radicals. Right. The problem is, UM, while 175 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: some of these free radicals are put to use UM, 176 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: others just kind of get away. They escape and they 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,479 Speaker 1: start wandering around the body. And when they get away 178 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: and they're outside of the context that they're they're I 179 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: guess meant to be used for, that's when they start 180 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: to do some real damage. Yeah, that's when they go 181 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: to other molecules like oxygen and say, hey, let me 182 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: in oxygen. An oxygen is like sure, you know, I'm 183 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: down to party, And all of a sudden you have 184 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: an oxygen molecule that has an extra electron that's unpaired. 185 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: It's called the superoxide. That's it's like it would be awesome. Yeah, 186 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: like superoxide sounds like a positive word, but it's not. 187 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: It's like it would get your clothes just so so white, 188 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: you know, that's right. Uh, And there are other superoxides. 189 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: Hydrogen peroxide is one, and these are all collectively known 190 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: as reactive oxygen species because they're they're reacting, they're destabilized, 191 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: and like we said before, there they want to be 192 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: whole again and they want to be stable, so they 193 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: just start robbing electrons from their neighbor, and again you 194 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: have the same chain reaction, and that's basically free radicals 195 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: at work in the body, right, and so like just 196 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: to kind of put this, uh, give a human face 197 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: to this whole thing, if you have a reactive oxygen species, 198 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: they respond indiscriminately to whatever cell they come up against. 199 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter to them. There's not one particular type 200 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: that that they like to take um electrons from or 201 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: donate electrons to. They'll destabilize whatever. And so if they 202 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: come across something like fatty acid molecule that helps create 203 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: structure for a cell um over time, if it sets 204 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: off a chain reaction. It can weaken that cell, and 205 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: when the cell wall is weak, the permeability is affected, 206 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: which means that all sorts of functions within the cell 207 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: can be impacted. In the cell can not only no 208 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: longer function and maybe decay and die, but it might 209 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: also produce some bad jams before it dies and screw 210 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: things up. So the proteins that it's meant to do 211 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: are still kind of trying to carry out their function, 212 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: but they're not doing it correctly, and so maybe they misfold, 213 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: and then you've got a whole other set of problems 214 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: on your hands. It's just a it's a it's not 215 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: good when a free radical, especially a reactive oxygen species, 216 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: gets loose. The problem is is they get loose like constantly, 217 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: there's a constant barrage of free radicals going through your body. 218 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: And Chuck it has to say after researching this, During 219 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 1: researching this, I now can can feel them. I can 220 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: hear them reacting throughout my body. And I didn't sleep 221 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: at all last night and I probably will never sleep again. 222 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's uh, I think we should take 223 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: a break. I'm gonna calm you down a little bit. 224 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: That was a nice primer, and I need to plug 225 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: in my laptop, so it's a perfect time to take 226 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: a bauz learn stuff with Joshua. Alright, so we're back 227 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: and Chuck. I am ashamed that we did not give 228 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: a huge shout out to Dave Ruse for helping us 229 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: out with this one fine example of the Rusee work, 230 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: because I mean, he did a great job. Um didn't 231 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: even so I could understand it. There was only one 232 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: part that I needed to go to a kids science website, 233 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: and it was for the Creb cycle. And I didn't 234 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: learn anything that I didn't already know. Uh from that data. 235 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: Did you remember the crib cycle from elementary school and 236 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: high school? Yeah? I didn't learn much about it, but 237 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm always reminded of um The Adventures of Pete and 238 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: Pete because there was a company that had crib in 239 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: the name, and it always, for some reason, I always 240 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: associate the creb cycle with Pete and Pete. And it 241 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: would not be elementary school, though probably high school. No, 242 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I could see it in late elementaries. Yeah, middle, 243 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: let's go with middle. I didn't go to middle school, though. 244 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: You skipped right over boy genius no, we just didn't 245 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: have it. Then. It was one through seven, eight through 246 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: twelve until oh yeah, you went to that experimental school. 247 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: But experimental, they just they introduced middle school kind of 248 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of my high school. So yeah, I 249 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: have to say, though, when you put together all of 250 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: your anecdotes from school, it sounds a lot like an 251 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: experimental school that you went to. They just didn't tell 252 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: you that. I think I had said this before. The 253 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: result of that was I was the My class was 254 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: the youngest class in the school in the eighth, ninth, 255 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: and tenth grade. There was nobody below us because they 256 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: kept peeling off grades to go to the middle school 257 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: right behind us. Oh that's that's interesting. Wow. So they 258 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: really carved out the middle there. Huh. Literally, they carved 259 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: out middle school and finally, by the time I was 260 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: a junior, there was a sophomore class behind me, and 261 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: we beat them up so hard. Yeah, I'll bet, because 262 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: you were all really just a class of super warrior 263 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: sleeper assassin. Yeah, super bullies, and we just couldn't wait 264 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: to beat up kids younger than us. Not true, that's 265 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: a very serious thing. By the way, of course, I've 266 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: never beat anybody you're talking like a guy who grew 267 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: up in the eighties, not a person of the ties. Chuck, 268 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, oh, we're at antioxidants. This is where 269 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: antioxidants come into play. The wonder thing. Yeah, because it 270 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,359 Speaker 1: would make sense that if your body is producing billions 271 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: and billions of free radicals every second that are getting 272 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: loose and wreaking havoc, it would have some way to 273 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: alleviate this. And as you just said, antioxidants, yeah, like 274 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the body has these. The body produces these on their own. 275 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to eat I mean, blueberries are great. 276 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: You should eat blueberries and kale, but you don't have 277 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: to eat that stuff to get them. They just supply 278 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: you with extra We produced two main ones, uric acid 279 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: and glutath ione, and they don't actually wipe out free radicals, 280 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: but they neutralize free radicals. Because earlier you said you 281 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: can uh, you can take and you can actually give 282 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: an electron. And that's what these antioxidants do is they 283 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: they walk up and they're like, hey, hey, hey man, 284 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: chill out. You don't need to go stealing electrons. Have 285 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: one of mine. It's like a hippie putting a daisy 286 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: in the barrel of a rifle held by national guards, 287 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: you know, totally so, so that would be oxidative. The 288 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: other thing, taking an unpared electron, that's reductive. So the 289 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: whole process, that whole concept of a free radical being 290 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: able to do that is called redox, reductive oxidative. If 291 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: it just you know, if you want to like score 292 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: some points at your next biochem party, throw redox out there. 293 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: By the way, that refu made was very ironic now 294 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: that they think about it, which the hippie one, because 295 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the hippie would not want to neutralize the free radical. 296 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: They are free radicals. Oh man, melted the membrane. I'm 297 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: like that. I feel like the guy on the poster 298 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: that says stoned again, you know what I mean, just 299 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: melted under the table. Uh So, like I said, vitamin's good, superfoods, 300 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: all these things can really help out our own antioxidant 301 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: production in our body and help protect you know, every 302 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: all these proteins and lipids and DNA and RNA basically 303 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: putting those daisies and all those rifles as fast as 304 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: they can, right exactly. So it is a good thing. 305 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: It is beneficial when you eat those blueberries or eat 306 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: or ing a pure cocoa. Um. However you ingest it, 307 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: uh like it does have that effect because you're introducing 308 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: these antioxidants to your body, and there are health benefits 309 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: to it. The thing is is you can eat blueberries 310 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: till you yourself are blue, like the poor girl from UM. 311 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: We just watched that. Yeah, it's which one the new 312 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: one or the old one? No, Like a few days ago, 313 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: we introduced my daughter to the Gene Wilder version, and 314 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: I gotta say he's great, but the movie is not 315 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: very good. Oh really, I really, I don't know, man, 316 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take heap for this, but it's kind of 317 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: a garbage movie except for Gene Wilder. I don't wow. 318 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: Go when was the last time you saw it? Like 319 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: within the last year too? You know you might like it. 320 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm not yuking your um. I just I didn't. I 321 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: thought it did not age well. I appreciate you not 322 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: yucky my um. Thank you. I have to say I've 323 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: actually somewhat come around on the remake. The first time 324 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: I saw it, I broke the TV. I thought was 325 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: so disappointed with it. But it's um, it actually has 326 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: somehow gotten slightly better. I'm not sure it changed somehow 327 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: or I did. I'm I'm assuming it changed. I'll have 328 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: to check it out. Yeah, I just don't hold me 329 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: to it if you don't like it, because I will 330 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: not be at all surprised. But anyway, you can eat 331 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: blueberries till you become uh bianca blueberry I think, yeah, 332 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: one of those two um, and you're probably not going 333 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: to neutralize all those free radicals in your body. And 334 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: so when an imbalance occurs between the number of free 335 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: radicals floating around causing havoc and the number of um 336 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: of antioccidents coming in and neutralizing them, you have what's 337 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: called oxidative stress And again this is what Dr Harmon 338 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: hypothesized was the basis for aging, that over time, all 339 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: this oxidative stress um is no longer able to be repaired. 340 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: There's just too many, too much damage to your systems 341 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: over time, and then slowly but surely, the clock starts 342 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: to wind down and you fall over in the middle 343 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: of the grocery store, ironically buying blueberries. Yeah. So Harmon 344 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: publishes a paper in nineteen fifty six called aging a 345 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: colon a theory based on free radical and radiation chemistry. 346 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: And this is where he kind of lays it all 347 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: out there and this this idea that he that he 348 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: hit upon, and he said, you know what we gotta do. 349 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: We gotta ingest more of these antioxidants. He said, I've 350 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: done some studies on some mice. He said, they got 351 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: a little moderate dose of antioxidants and they live longer. 352 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: So that proves everything right. And it didn't, you know, 353 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: it was nineteen fifty six. It wasn't like I think 354 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier. It wasn't didn't make the biggest spl 355 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: ash at first. It actually took weirdly. It kind of 356 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: took decades. Are not weirdly. I guess it sort of 357 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: makes sense. When the electron microscope or the electron scanner 358 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: was introduced in the eighties, they could actually see this 359 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: stuff happening and they said, wait a minute, these free 360 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,239 Speaker 1: radicals are stealing electrons. They're bad, and these antioxidants are 361 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: sticking daisies in their rifles and that's good. And so 362 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: it got a little more traction. And then in the 363 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: nineties they did a very big study that said, hey, 364 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: if you're eating, if you're not eating a bunch of 365 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables and you're not getting those vitamin C 366 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: and E, you have a higher risk of getting cancer, 367 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: memory loss, bone breakage, sagging skin, like just aging in 368 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: all the wrong ways exactly. And so the implication was, well, 369 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: then take as much vitamin C and vitamin ese you 370 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: can possibly back into your And as a matter of fact, 371 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: Dr Harmon Um, who seems to have been a pretty 372 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: good guy from all accounts that I came across, Yeah, 373 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: he took a lot of vitamin C and E every day. 374 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: I mean hundreds of hundreds of times the recommended daily allowance, 375 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: which in and of itself is kind of in an 376 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: issue worth discussing um in its own thing. But um, 377 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: he also jogged two miles a day, which, as we'll see, 378 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: is very important. UM. And he lived at age and 379 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: apparently he said, uh, at some point it's important that 380 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: you accept if you're that you're going to die. We're 381 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: all going to die, but if you work at it 382 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: a little bit, you might just make it to a hundred. 383 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: And he came awfully close. So a lot of people 384 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: made a lot of UM, a lot of hey about 385 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, he took a lot of 386 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: vitamin C and E every day and he's still you know, 387 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: he almost made it to a hundred UM and he 388 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: was he was very much alive. I mean this was 389 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: he died in two thousand fourteen. So when this really 390 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: finally hit in the nineties and everybody was like, this 391 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: is it. This is absolutely we have aging figured out 392 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: and we now know what to do with it or 393 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: do about it. Um, he would around to be kind 394 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: of fetted. And he was, I believe, nominated for the 395 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize six times. He never won, but just being 396 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 1: nominated once, I mean I would love that. I'm not 397 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: saying that anybody should go out and do that necessarily, 398 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: but if you if you did, I would just think 399 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: it was great. Six times. I can't even imagine. Well, 400 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: I think after if they ever created a Nobel Prize 401 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: for podcasting, we'll get it, after Roman Mars, and after 402 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: Karen and Georgia, and after Ira Glass and after Terry Gross. 403 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: Terry Gross of course and wait, wait, don't tell me 404 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: all of NPR will get There's right, then Georgia and Karen, 405 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: then Roman Mars, then Mark Maron, then Jesse Thorne, then us. 406 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: I could see stuff they don't want you to know 407 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: slipping in there ahead of us, and our own college. Yeah, 408 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: I'll cut them. We got a long line ahead of us, Chuck, 409 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: Let's just keep doing our thing and see what happens. Okay, Oh, 410 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: that's right. So in the nineties it was such a 411 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: big deal. In the early nineties, the National Institute on 412 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: Aging in the U. S d A got together and 413 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: they said, Hey, you know what people love is USA 414 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: today style UM food rating scale graphics. So let's let's 415 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: put one of those together. We'll call it the Oxygen 416 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: radical Absorbance Capacity. No one's gonna know what the OREK is. 417 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: At least at least they stopped short of calling it oracle. 418 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 1: I give them credit. Yeah, that's true. They didn't go 419 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: look for an Ellen and e UM like life enabler 420 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: or something. Uh. And then they you know, they put 421 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: this out and it was basically kind of everything we 422 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: saw at a marketing It was. It was the blueberries 423 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: and the kale and the cocoa and all that stuff. 424 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: And and you know, like we said, marketing, they love 425 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: that stuff because that means they can sell things two 426 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: people packaged foods as healthy. Yeah, and like this thing 427 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: actually just said like here's how great coco is. But 428 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: it's great cocoa is red wine rose trials even better, 429 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: and so like, it was very helpful, especially at the 430 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: time because people were you know, into into health food 431 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: for years before that. The eighties was a huge, huge 432 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: boon for health food and this seems like the um 433 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: just the predictable, uh legacy of that, you know, Like 434 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: now now we've got even greater science and we can 435 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: tell you what foods are even better at prolonging your 436 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: life than you know, just your stupid brand muffin that 437 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: helps you poop. Go back to the eighties of Caveman Lawyer. 438 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: You know, this is like real science where we're saying 439 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: this food is a superfood and here's how much of 440 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: a superfood it is. That's what the orc did. Yeah, 441 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: but at some point I think someone stopped and said, well, listen, 442 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: we need to think about this a little bit more. 443 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: And that's what I love about science, Like something that 444 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: seemed really settled, it wasn't good enough for somebody at 445 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: some point, you know, and they said, let's start poking 446 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: around on this again, because we really still don't understand 447 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: it fully, because if your body is producing free radicals, 448 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 1: like the body doesn't usually just produce something that is 449 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: so damaging that it's literally killing it's its cells. So 450 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: let's kind of poke around and see what the deal 451 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: is with with these free radicals. And and yeah, I 452 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: guess some the logical answer is, well, God decreed it 453 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: that way, so this is why we that's the logical answer. Sure, 454 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: just you just run out of of something like you 455 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: just stop at some point. Um. But like you said, 456 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: some people said, no, no, no, there's gotta be there's 457 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: gotta be some some other thing going on here. It's 458 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: and it turns out it's astounding how close humans can 459 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: come to a mark and then just completely misinterpreted, you 460 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And that seems like something that 461 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: happened here not completely misinterpreted, because there's plenty of stuff 462 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: that Dr Harmon supposed or that was the base is 463 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: of his supposition. That's still true. But I mean, I 464 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: guess I haven't quite put my finger on what's riveting 465 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: about this. But it's still to this day, Like I've 466 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: known about this for years and it's still this day. 467 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: I just find it so interesting. But the upshot was 468 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: when people started looking into um free radicals, so that 469 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: antioxidants neutralizing free radicals that's pretty set, like there's not 470 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: a lot of question about that, but just put a 471 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: pin in that for later. Um. But free radicals themselves 472 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: were portrayed as this villa like that's it, that's what's 473 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 1: killing you. These are the villains in all of our lives. 474 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: They're the reason for aging, they're the reason for disease. 475 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: They're the reasons you will die. Are free radicals. And 476 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: somebody somewhere along the way said, well, let me take 477 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: another look at them, and they found ah, wait a minute, 478 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: these are actually super useful in a lot of different ways. 479 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: And what the the change in paradigm that came from 480 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: all of this is that free radicals, Uh, depending on 481 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: the context where they are, the time that they exist, 482 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: like their lifespan a bunch of different factors, they're either 483 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: very destructive or the body can't exist or move forward 484 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: without them. Yeah, and a lot of these benefits, um, 485 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they they're all kinds of benefits, but a 486 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: lot of them are based around the immune system. UM. 487 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: Like hydrogen peroxide. It's a free radical and it um, 488 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, some immune cells need a little help from 489 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: hydrogen peroxide to help destroy these pathogens coming to our body. Um, 490 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: some of the other I think UH, and well, hydrogen 491 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: peroxide Again, it can also signal molecules that draw immune 492 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: cells to the side of an injury. So we're talking 493 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: like if you're a smoker or something, it can be 494 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: it can actually help attract immune cells to help stave 495 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: off UH cell damage because of that smoking. It's a 496 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: big It can be a signal er, right. UM. Hydrogen 497 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: peroxides also again it's a free radical. That's actually why 498 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: they say they no longer recommend using it to debride 499 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: wounds or clean a wound, or swish it around in 500 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: your mouth. It actually it's a free radical that will 501 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: damage whatever cells it comes in contact with. You don't 502 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: want to use hydrogen peroxide. UM. But the thyroid gland 503 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: produces it. It's part of producing thyroid hormone, like it 504 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: it needs. It's part of that process, just like it's 505 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: part of the crib cycle to produce energy. UM. I 506 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: saw another one. I didn't see the name in the 507 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: in the study, but UM, there was a free radical 508 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: that was linked to stronger contractions of cells in the 509 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: cardiac tissue, so it gave you a stronger heartbeat. They 510 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: figured out that when they removed this the heart beat still, 511 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: but it wasn't less, it wasn't as forceful or strong 512 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: a contraction. Um, there's just a bunch of different things 513 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: that different free radicals do in the body. Like they 514 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: clearly have a defined role depending on the context. Yeah, 515 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: and the other thing we'll take a break here in 516 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: a second. But the other thing we should mention too 517 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: is the exercise paradox, which is, you know, we know 518 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: exercise is really good for you, but we also learned 519 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: that exercise really increases your free radical levels. So that 520 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: was just another sort of uh notch or chink in 521 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: the armor. I guess where they were like, well, wait 522 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: a minute, if you're doing something really good for your 523 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: body is producing these extra free radicals, they got to 524 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: be good for something. So that's why, you know, people 525 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: looked into it and learned all of these benefits. So 526 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: I think we'll take a break now and we will 527 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: uh come back with some pretty interesting evidence on why 528 00:30:36,720 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: they might have had it all backwards. Alrighty, so evidence 529 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: that it was backwards. Um, they started doing some studies. 530 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: They started engineering organisms with really really high levels of 531 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: free radicals or antioxidants and just sort of looking at 532 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: what happened in terms of lifespan. And of course they thought, well, listen, 533 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: if you've got a lot of free radicals, you're gonna 534 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna die a lot younger. It's gonna be yeah, 535 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: it's gonna be really bad. And if you if you 536 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: have really high antioxident levels, we're going to engineer all this, 537 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: bioengineer it. You're gonna live a lot longer. And they 538 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: found the opposite was true, which was it like shook 539 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: the medical community to its very core. Yeah. So there 540 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: was a type of round worm that was genetically engineered 541 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: to produce lots of superoxides, way more than your average roundworm. 542 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: And you would expect, since superoxides are a reactive oxygen species, 543 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: one of the most damaging types of free radicals, that 544 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: those round worms would just basically be born, you know, 545 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: shout why why was I born? And then die and 546 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: that would basically be the lifespan of it. And that's 547 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: not what happened at all. As a matter of fact, 548 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: not only did they live, um, they didn't die prematurely. 549 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: They actually lived longer than round worms that hadn't been 550 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: tinkered with genetically longer more free radicals longer lifespan in 551 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: this round worm and that definitely got their bow tie 552 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: spinning in the lab. Uh yeah. And they also said, 553 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: well what about the other ones that were pumped full 554 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: of antioxidants? They died faster, and they're like, what is 555 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: going on? Like if someone switching out our worms here? 556 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: And they all looked at the one guy who didn't 557 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: refuse to wear a bow tie. He's like, why is 558 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: everyone looking at me? I like my neckties. I like 559 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: my clip on necktie. Just fine. They entuate my genitalia. 560 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: What don't you remember there's a line from State in 561 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: Maine where this doctor wearing a bow tie, Oh my 562 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: gosh says, never trust the person of the bow tie 563 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: because the tie is meant to accentuate your genitalor. I 564 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: don't remember that line. I love that movie. Yeah, yeah, 565 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: it was there. My favorite part of that movie is 566 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: when Alec Bald went this out on the date with 567 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: Julius Stiles and drunk and crashes his car and then 568 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: he just gets out of the car and kind of 569 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: wanders off and goes so that happened. That movie was great. 570 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: He's got that great last line to He's like, well 571 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: beats working. Yeah, beats working. That was a great movie, 572 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: maybe the best movie about the thimb industry. Um. All right, 573 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: so they said round worms are one thing we need 574 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: to look at mice. So they bioengineered eighteen different strains 575 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: of mice. Again, some with really high levels of antioxidants, 576 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: others very low levels. They tracked these, they published. This 577 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: is over like an eight year period, and one of 578 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: the scientists that was talking about the results was like 579 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: he even cursed. He said, I watched those gd lifespan curves. 580 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: There was not an inch of difference between them. And 581 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: basically it was there was just no no difference in lifespan. 582 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: He couldn't find any No, there was Like this guy 583 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: worked for eight years breeding just different strains genetic strains 584 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: of mice and there was no difference. So like all 585 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: this data starts coming in. That one was two thousand 586 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: and eight to two thousand or two thousand one to 587 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. I think, um, and this data starts 588 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: to accumulate there like did you hear about the round worms? Yeah? 589 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: Did you hear about the eighteen strains of mice? And 590 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: he said, yeah, it's crazy. That guy cursed and like 591 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: as the stuff started compiled. People were like, this doesn't 592 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: make any sense whatsoever. I guess someone else throughout the 593 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: naked role matt mole rat. The naked mole rat too, 594 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: which apparently produces way more naturally produces way more free 595 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: radicals than your average rat or mice mouse. I'm sorry, um, 596 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: And they typically have a lifespan that's about eight times 597 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,439 Speaker 1: longer in the wild than wild mouse does, which again 598 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. So all this stuff starts coming in, 599 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: and then finally people are like, well, wait a minute, 600 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who are taking lots of 601 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: antioxidants supplements right now, because I don't think we really 602 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: kind of like highlighted this um yet, Like in in 603 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: conjunction with those superfoods in the U. S d A 604 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: promoting its oric chart supplements blue up, especially supplements that 605 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: were proven antioxidants. People said, if you if you get 606 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: a lot of vitamin C from blueberries, what if I 607 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: just took like fistfuls of of like isolated vitamin C. 608 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: If I just took tons of vitamin C itself and 609 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: just got rid of the blueberries, And a lot a 610 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: lot of Americans were doing that, taking a lot of 611 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: supplements that were full of antioxidants, and now all of 612 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: a sudden, people are like, uh, maybe we should look 613 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: at how humans are doing with all of this. And 614 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: that's when that's when it got kind of scary all 615 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: of a sudden. Actually, yeah, I mean, like you said, 616 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: they had this robust population so they could do these 617 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: long term human clinical trials, and all these studies started 618 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: pouring in that said, people who were taking all these 619 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: multi vitamins are not living longer than the placebo group, 620 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes even have a greater chance of dying from 621 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: things like cancer or heart disease and these things that 622 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be protecting against by taking all these 623 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: multi vitamins. Yeah, the exact opposite of what everybody thought, right. 624 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: But here's the catch they found out is when they 625 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: started to dig a little deeper. In fact, they did 626 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: one study in eighteen thousand men and women. Uh, they 627 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: they found out that it was way worse in people 628 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: that already had something going on, like more lung cancer, 629 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: seven teen percent more deaths in a group that was 630 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: given beta carotene and retinal compared with people who didn't 631 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: get them. But when they looked they found out that, 632 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: oh but some of these people, like the highest rates 633 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: were among people who were smokers or who had been 634 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: exposed to asbestos, and they were like, wait a minute. 635 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: In fact, they even called off a study in Finland 636 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: because there were so many people getting uh. In the 637 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: antioxidant group, a lot of these people were smokers. They 638 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: were getting diagnosed with lung cancer. So they's like, we 639 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: got to cancel this thing and really see what's going 640 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: on here. Yeah, and it wasn't. It doesn't from what 641 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: I can tell, it wasn't. Just like they were like, Okay, 642 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: we don't know what's going on, so we need to 643 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: take a breather until we figure it out. I get 644 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 1: the impression that they were scared that they were actually 645 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 1: giving people lung cancer by giving high doses of beta 646 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: carotene to these smokers totally UH, and that they had 647 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: to cancel the study as a result, and that that 648 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: happened in more than more than just one place. Particularly, 649 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: it seemed like combining high doses of beta carotene, a 650 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: very potent antioxidant that's found naturally in the like carrots um, 651 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: with people who smoke, an environmental toxin that produces lots 652 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: and lots of free radicals, especially in the lungs, was 653 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: actually seeming to cause lung cancer trigger lung cancer in people. 654 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: So it was a really scary, eye opening, mind boggling 655 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: moment or not moment, but it's just course of years 656 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: over the I guess probably the course of a decade 657 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: when this stuff really started to come back. Um, that 658 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: really made people rethink whether we should be taking antioccident 659 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: supplements or not. Yeah, and rethink in a big way, 660 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: like and we should point out like not every single 661 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: study had a result that was this bad, but at 662 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: the best they were inconclusive. So a lot of these 663 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: journals had to walk back a lot of stuff. In 664 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, the Journal of American Medical Association said, 665 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, we did the sixty eight clinical trials, and 666 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: antioccident supplements do not reduce risk of death. I'm sorry, 667 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: we've been saying that for a while. The American Diabetes Association, 668 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: American Heart Association now say you don't even take these 669 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: supplements unless the doctor says, like you have a vitamin 670 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: deficiency and you need to and you need this one 671 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: specific supplement, not a bunch of them. And that rac 672 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: the poor Oracle can that website that that you would 673 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: say today graphic just got taken down altogether. Yeah, and 674 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: they deleted the data with it too, um, which I 675 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: personally take issue with. Yeah, I agree, but that just 676 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of goes to show you And that's two thousand 677 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: and eleven that happened, But that goes to show you 678 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: just how sweeping the backlash was to hang onto the 679 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: data though, like parking on a MySpace page or something. Sure, sure, 680 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, justin Timberlake was a big investor 681 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: in the second round of my Space. I don't think 682 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: it went anywhere though. Was there a second round? They 683 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: tried to make a second round but it didn't work recently, 684 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: I want to say, within the last seven eight years, 685 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: and um, I feel like he sunk like a hundred 686 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: million dollars or some crazy amount into that to try 687 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: to try to like kick started again, and it just 688 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: did not happen. The people had spoken, you know what 689 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,959 Speaker 1: I mean. But there was a huge, huge backlash to antioxidants. 690 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is really important and 691 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: I will go over it again in a second, but 692 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: I just really want to point this out. What they 693 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: focused on, what seemed to be the problem was not 694 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: antioxidants themselves. Was not eating a diet rich in antioxidant foods, 695 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: a very colorful diet filled with all the different kinds 696 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: of nutrients that you get from that stuff. That doesn't 697 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: seem to be the issue, which is why I don't 698 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: understand why the USDA took down that site. What seemed 699 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: to be the issue was taking enormous amounts on a 700 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: daily basis of antioxidants supplements isolated derived supplements that were 701 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: high doses of antioxidants. But even still, we haven't quite 702 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: reached the point where we understand why that might be 703 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: the case. And finally we kind of get to that 704 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: because it's totally counterintuitive why we're taking more antioxidants to 705 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: balance out oxidative stress in your body actually make you 706 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: likely or do die from the very stuff that you're 707 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 1: taking supplements to prevent. Why chuck, Yeah, Well, I mean 708 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, we mentioned earlier that free 709 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: radicals can really help out the immune system in a 710 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: lot of ways, and that's kind of what they landed on, 711 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: is that free radicals may not be the cause of 712 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: this oxidative damage, but might be the result of it. 713 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: So if you're a smoker or if you get that 714 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: asbesos exposure, your body is going to produce these free 715 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: radicals to signal, like we mentioned earlier, like hey, something's wrong. 716 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: You need to come down here and start, you know, 717 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: get to work, bring your little repair kit down here. 718 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: And if you're taking all this these massive levels of antioxidants, 719 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: it's gonna mute or muffle those the work of those 720 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: free radicals. And that's why it explains the fact that 721 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: people that had issues, like if you were a smoker 722 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 1: already or that asbestos exposure and you were taking all 723 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: these things, it was it was kind of suppressing your 724 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: immuno response, right. Um, It's almost like you were taking 725 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: such a high dose of these antioxidants that they came 726 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: in and were telling your body we got this, even 727 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: though it didn't really have it, which allowed like a 728 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: tumor to say run rampant were it allowed for these 729 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: processes of like your your arteries um clogging or hardening 730 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: to take place because your body thought it was covered. 731 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: That's the current theory. And again we don't want to 732 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: get ahead of ourselves. If we learned any lesson from 733 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: the initial round of this, it's that we need to 734 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: just kind of take it all as it comes and 735 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 1: try to figure it out. But that seems to be 736 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: the current understanding is that it's sent It dampens the 737 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: signals that free radical send to the immune system, which 738 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,879 Speaker 1: actually allows disease to take place. It makes sense, you know, 739 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: It's like it's almost like, you know, the the immune 740 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: system needs to be out a little out of whack 741 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,720 Speaker 1: to know, it needs to wake up and get to work. 742 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,839 Speaker 1: You know. So if it's not getting out of whack 743 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: because antioxidants are just keeping that those electrons you know, 744 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: all locked in place, or you know, at least an 745 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: even trade going on, then your immune system isn't gonna 746 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: know what to do. It explains the round worms, It 747 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: explains the uh, the exercise paradox. It all kind of 748 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: dovetailed very nicely. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and 749 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 1: I mean it also makes sense so like, um, when 750 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: you use radiation therapy, you're actually creating purposely free radicals 751 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: that are targeting a tumor, a tumor, so that those 752 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: free radicals go in and break up the tumor cell 753 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: and destroy the cells that make up the tumor, I 754 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: should say. Um, And that actually kind of jibes with 755 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,439 Speaker 1: something a concept called hormesis which I heard about, um 756 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: from a guy that you and I have been um 757 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: watching videos from, named doctor Mark Hyman. And um, he's 758 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: like a functional medicine doctor, which is basically like just 759 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: kind of used the whole body together and his food 760 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: is medicine kind of thing into that. Yeah, she would 761 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: love that guy all. But he's very down to earth 762 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: and and pretty pretty interesting. But um, there's this concept 763 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: called hormesis that he talks about. It's not his concept, 764 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: but he he kind of punches it up a lot, 765 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: but he Um. Hormesis is the idea that you stress 766 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: your body slightly so that when it repairs itself, it 767 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: actually makes itself slightly stronger, which that seems to be 768 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: the basis of free radicals and exercise. That whole exercise 769 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: paradox that when you exercise, you're actually stressing your body 770 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: so that when your body goes into repair itself, you 771 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: are better off than you were before. Like you can 772 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: you have a higher vo to max or v O 773 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: max um you have your muscles are stronger because they've 774 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: been repaired stronger than they were when you tore them 775 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: through exercise. That's why you have a down day between 776 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: if you're like a big weightlifter, like I remember when 777 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: I was a kid, Like I never lifted weights, but 778 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: dudes would try to get me to and they would 779 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: talk about weightlifting a lot, and they be like, Yeah, 780 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta have that down day. You got 781 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: to let those muscles repair, you know exactly. That's why 782 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: you also want to protein after you um you exercise, 783 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: so that you your body has a supply of stuff 784 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: to rebuild those muscles with and make them stronger. But 785 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: there's this whole idea that free radicals play the roles 786 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 1: in all these different things, from hormesis like exercise, to 787 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: um signaling to actually being part of the immune response 788 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: that messes up cells like that we don't want, like 789 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: tumor cells, and so if we suppress them with high 790 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,320 Speaker 1: doses of antioxidant supplements, it interferes with our bodies natural 791 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: ability to do that rather than helping the body, where 792 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: we actually seem to have been hindering it with antioxidant supplements. Yeah, 793 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: and it's kind of interesting. I think, like, even though 794 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: even though the doctor wasn't right on the money, I 795 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,919 Speaker 1: think in the end it did a lot of good 796 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: because I think where we landed and where we are 797 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: now is you shouldn't necessarily believe anyone when they say 798 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 1: they figured out the one thing without aging and dying, 799 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,919 Speaker 1: and that it is a lot of different things going 800 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: on in your body over a long period of time, 801 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: and you can't say, this is it. I figured out 802 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,479 Speaker 1: the one single thing that's going to keep you young 803 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: for more years and let you live longer. Yeah, there 804 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: is no, there's no fountain of youth. No, no, that's 805 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: the problem yet. But um, but it does seem like 806 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: oxidative stress does play a role in it. But it's 807 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: certainly not. There's it's just two. It's way more complicated, 808 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: and that was wishful thinking to think otherwise. But it 809 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: seems like where medicine is landed now is you know, 810 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,840 Speaker 1: it still makes sense to reduce your exposure to things 811 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,359 Speaker 1: that that cause oxidative stress, like cigarette smoke or asbestos 812 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: or you know, all sorts of environmental toxins, and then 813 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: to supplement your body's ability to take on free radicals 814 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: by eating very healthy um plant based although not entirely 815 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: plant um diet. Uh that's full of antioxidants, because that 816 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: seems to be true, But it seems like extracting those 817 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: antioxidants take some out of context that when you eat 818 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,319 Speaker 1: them with food, there's a bunch of other nutrients they 819 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: interact with. That seems to actually that's where the health 820 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,439 Speaker 1: benefits come from. It's from food. We haven't figured out 821 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,240 Speaker 1: how to replicate that, and just extracting the antioxidants didn't 822 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: do it. So eat a lot of colorful plants and 823 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: you will probably be a little healthier than you would 824 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 1: have otherwise when you age. Yeah, and if you really 825 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,359 Speaker 1: want bang for your buck, eat them raw. Yeah, there 826 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: you go. It depends on the plant. Like I like 827 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: to roast. I like to roast that cauliflower and broccoli. Yeah, 828 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: tastes so good. But if you can munch on some 829 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: raw edgies, that's really, really, really good for your body. 830 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: But I think there are some processes like blanching that 831 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: just lightly kind of cook something that unlock a lot 832 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: of those nutrients that otherwise we just pass right through 833 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,439 Speaker 1: your your pooper. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I don't 834 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: think raw is entirely the way. I'm sorry raw people, 835 00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:02,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, you got anything else, I've got nothing else. Uh. Well, 836 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 1: since Chuck said that, it's time everybody for a listener, 837 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:11,239 Speaker 1: ma'am uh. This is from the housing discrimination episode that 838 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: was a good one, if I may say so. Hey, guys, 839 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: Chuck was talking about locking in um property tax or 840 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: saying you don't have to pay property tax anymore. And 841 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: while that's a good idea, this is basically what California 842 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: did when it enacted Prop thirteen in night. And while 843 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: the originally stated goal of stopping displays displacement of older 844 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: homeowners was a good one, it's unintended negative consequences are huge. Um. 845 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: Here in California, your property taxes are essentially frozen when 846 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: you buy a property, but the law also allows you 847 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: to pass your tax basis to your children or grandchildren, 848 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: and the result is massive inequity. A very common situation 849 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 1: here in San Francisco is two households next door to 850 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: each other, uh similar homes, similar age, and similar financial means, 851 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: one of whom pays ten times what the other does 852 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 1: in property taxes while consuming the city services those taxes 853 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: pay for equally. It's a regressive tax that benefits the 854 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: half of the people who are lucky enough to inherit property, 855 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: while further burdening those trying to buy in like written control. 856 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: It's a good idea but flawed in practice because the 857 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: people who have it are not necessarily the people who 858 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,319 Speaker 1: need it. PS. You should mention The Color of Law 859 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,879 Speaker 1: by Richard Rothstein, probably one of the best books ever 860 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: written on housing discrimination. And oh, I don't have that 861 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: person's uh name. I feel bad now, probably Richard Rothstein 862 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,359 Speaker 1: writing anonymously. I guess it's just anonymous. Sorry about that. 863 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,839 Speaker 1: That was That was a good one. I'm interesting because 864 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 1: I guarantee that the kind of thing where somebody else 865 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: all right and be like no, no, no, that last 866 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: writer had it wrong. Here's the real deal on that. 867 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: Who knows. I'm I'm interested to see. I had not 868 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,880 Speaker 1: heard of that before. Yeah, I mean, Emily and I 869 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: sort of lightly debated that the email. Um, actually I've 870 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: got it here. It's from Eric. Oh, thanks m cal Berkeley. 871 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: So here that's what he's talking about. But yeah, we 872 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 1: kind of debated that a little bit. I guess I 873 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:13,800 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not sure I feel about it, so 874 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna run my mouth very wise chuck very wise. Um, well, 875 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: thanks again, Eric, that was a very interesting email. And 876 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: if you want to be like Eric and get in 877 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: touch with us about something that we possibly had overlooked. 878 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: We want to hear about it. You can send it 879 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you 880 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more 881 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 882 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.