WEBVTT - Inside the Heist Issue 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:37.920 by searching Bloomberg Global News. We continually, of course, update 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:40.839 you here on the Bloomberg about what's going on with 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.040 the virus. And I gotta say, yesterday was I feel 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.080 like a turning point once again, as we saw surging 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.519 new cases in a bunch of southern and Western states. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.120 We had states reopening plans, putting them on hold, hospitalizations 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.840 are up. And then Anthony Faucci, the US government's top 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.600 infectious disease specialist, warning lawmakers that virus cases could top 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.680 and rise to a hundred thousand a day if behaviors 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.520 don't change, I can't make an accurate prediction, but it 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.160 is going to be very disturbing. I will guarantee you that, 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.560 because when you have an outbreak in one part of 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.039 the country, even though in other parts of the country 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.560 they're doing well, they are vulnerable. I made that point 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.360 very clearly last week at a press conference. We can't 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.520 just focus on those areas that are having the surge. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.240 It puts the entire country at risk. We are now 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.560 having a quality plus thousand new cases a day. I 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.880 would not be surprised if we go up to a 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.160 hundred thousand a day if this does not turn around, 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.360 and so I am very concerned. Yep, that number got 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.959 our attention. That's of course Dr Anthony Fauci talking to 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.960 senators yesterday and hearing held by the Senate Health, Education, 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.800 Labor and Pensions Committee, and Jason Dyer absolutely well, from 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.160 one of the nation stop doctors to our top doctor. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.040 Dr I and Les bed are back with us, clinical 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.880 Associate Professor of Medicine at n y U s Linga 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.160 Medical Center, joining us once again on the phone from 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.120 New York City. So Ian, when you heard that from 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.239 Dr Fauci. I'm guessing it didn't shock you given how 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.040 on the front lines you've been on this, but it 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.280 has to be disappointing and a little bit scary, especially 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.080 given that you've been on the front lines of this 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.080 and seeing what's happened in New York City. Hi, Carol 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.560 and Jason. Yes, I think most doctors that I speak 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.840 to certainly are very concerned, and hospitals are concerned, as 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.440 they should be um to some degree. You know, I 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.840 think by by not really mandating you know, masks and 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.600 social isolation, really by giving that as an option, which 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.600 you know, with multiple states and in a free country, 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.799 that's certainly one approach. We're really, in a way, uh 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:54.440 following the Swedish model, which is letting nature take its course, 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.600 and when that happens, there's certainly a significant risk. As 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.640 Dr Fauci says, you know, cases at this point we're 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.239 about forty or fifty thousand a day. We know they're 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.480 really much higher because we're really only picking up about 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.560 one intent or only diagnosing one intent. There are probably 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.480 ten times more people who have UH COVID than than 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.320 are actually being picked up by tests. So we're talking 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.920 hundreds of thousands a day of new cases, and of 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:28.320 course that translates into potentially um higher surge on hospitals 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.560 and health care facilities. And this is what we're seeing 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.800 across the Sun Belt. Yeah, it's not even it's not 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.960 even just the surge with hospitals, which is a concern, 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.840 but really ultimately a higher death rate and then what 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.240 I like to call post COVID syndrome. Even people who 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.560 get through it often have a lot of other symptoms 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.280 and ongoing healthcare issues. So it's it's quite worrisome. Ian, 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.000 let's talk about that. In anticipation of our conversation, I 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.520 was talking to others about, um, exactly what you're getting 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.880 to know. You were the first one, Jason, and I 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:03.640 can kind of almost remember the day where you talked 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.640 about the blood clots, you know, throughout the body, and 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.160 this was just not something you see often. Talk to 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.960 us about the implications of that and and the problems 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.600 that seemed to be maybe staying with some patients even 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:21.480 after they recover. Exactly, so this uh and Dr Faucci 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.440 has said this. He said, this is a virus with 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:28.960 protein manifestations, meaning multiple ways of manifesting. We typically think 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.560 of viruses perhaps as an ammonia or fever, chills and aches, 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.680 but this virus is unique. We we really can't think 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:43.760 of something similar where multiple organs are affected, strokes in 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.080 the brain, and kidney disease, liver disease, very high liver 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.800 function test g I disease, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and not 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:58.960 only that, besides um killing people with blood clots and 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.360 and so of the latest data show that the virus 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.960 seems to increase a platelet aggregation or the stickiness of 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.840 platelets and platelets. Normally, you know, we need to to 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.360 cause some clotting when you get an injury or a cut, 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.000 but when there's a massive increase in platelet stickiness, you 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.120 get clots everywhere. And that probably explains a lot of 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.919 the you know, severe consequences that we see as a 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.240 result of these infections. Well, and presumably that ultimately has 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:31.080 an impact on a hospital and doctor's abilities to treat 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.719 a whole host of things, including new cases. But also 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.919 this long tail, as it were, uh inn of COVID 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.359 exactly right, So we have the you know, the acute 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:48.080 UH injury or the the acute illness, and we're still 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:52.760 a bit perplexed why there is a number of patients 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.880 who have mild to to know symptoms and this is 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.120 that large young group of people who are asymptomatic. They 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.400 form a reservoir are they're often feel fine and feel invulnerable. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.880 They're not wearing masks. They're potentially transferring this to other 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.200 people who are older, which is why you know, universal 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:15.320 masking is certainly a reasonable request for for all um 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:20.800 and then uh, insusceptible patients. You get this really cascade 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.359 of effects that make people more short of breath, have 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.320 clots everywhere, and then even if people survive after hospitalization, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.520 many have a long term not only psychologic effects but 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:37.359 physical effects. Ian when do you realistically still expect a virus? 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.279 I mean a vaccine mother? So I you know, I 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.760 think this is encouraging news. Fightser is one of the 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.919 number of companies Maderna j and j a Estra Zeneca, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.000 you know, who are really moving forward. A lot of 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.080 these studies are going to go into phase three with 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.640 wider number of patients. The Fighter study is is fairly small, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.919 uh you know, forty five patients or so um, but 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.359 it certainly is encouraging. What we don't know is in 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.839 a larger number of patients, how many will develop antibodies 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.640 that are neutralizing, how long those antibodies will last, and 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.440 will the virus mutate. So I think it is encouraging 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.160 that we're making progress. It is a unique a way 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:22.760 of making UH vaccine with messenger RNA which gets into 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:28.120 your own cells and uh UH forms these proteins that 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.440 are typical of the coronavirus COVID nineteen, typically the spike protein, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.480 and then your body forms antibodies to that, so you're 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.400 not subject to the risk of a live virus. And 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.240 we think that this is hopefully a better way. It 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.200 is a relatively new technology, but again there are a 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.600 lot of hurdles before not only is it proven effective, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.720 but it can be ramped up, manufactured and distributed, and 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.520 probably there'll be several vaccines using similar technology, hopefully with 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.120 similar efficacy. So I think at some point UH and 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.240 I'm thinking early, but I think it can be a 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.000 very bumpy road until we get there where it where 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.440 it's widespread, and then you have to see how many 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.080 people we'll be willing to take it. But since we 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.560 know probably twenty five million or more Americans probably have 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.280 the virus. Based on that one in ten, we know 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.320 the death rate is certainly higher than the you know, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.040 hundred and twenty five or hundred and fifty thousand people 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.000 as going to climb much much higher. You know, we're 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.960 gonna have a lot of shocks to the system, the 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.079 economic system. Uh. And I think it is this is encouraging, 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.800 but it's it is an early step in a very 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.719 long process to to turn things around. I don't mean 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.600 to be negative. I'm just trying to keep it in perspective. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.160 We look to you to keep it real for us. See. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.040 And um so speaking of which is speaking of long roads, uh, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.320 the road back for New York City. You are there 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.240 in New York. You saw I'm sure that Major de 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.840 Blasio and Governor Cuomo said let's slow down a little 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.200 bit on indoor dining, uh, expansive outdoor dining. This is 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:14.280 a cautious reopening, to say the least. Uh, clearly informed 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.439 by what we see going on in the rest of 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.880 the country in New York and New York City specifically, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.640 not wanting to fall back. What do you make of 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.880 it so far? The reopening? All right, this is really 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.520 unexplored territory. We we it's not like there's a template, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.400 UH to follow. And I think New York certainly has 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.360 done remarkably well compared to the rest of the country. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.120 We dealt with a major hospital surge, and I think 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:43.160 everyone is afraid, justifiably of either a second wave or 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.719 losing ground, and that would be a real strain on 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.200 not only the economics the hospital system, and so I 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.080 think we have to be careful. Certainly, we know outside 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:57.520 is better than inside. Wearing masks, having some social distance 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:03.240 certainly reduces the risk. Um and I think he's trying 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.800 to be prudent. It's going to be very difficult to 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.800 know when is the old clear signal that restaurants can 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.240 go back, And I think that puts a question on 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.840 the whole economy and um, yeah, and small business owners, 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.520 you know they're they're under strain. So I think, um, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.840 we do need to get back. The optimal time for 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.720 that is unclear, and I think if there's any place 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.400 to begin that, it appears in New York City is 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.400 ready to take some some forward steps as long as 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.400 we track and trace and contact trace and make sure 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.600 we're not seeing any any recurrence or second wave right 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.079 and we're getting ready for that Phase three reopening. Come 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.000 to Lyst six um and thank you so much. Have 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.120 a great holiday, a safe holiday, and of course we'll 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.559 check in with you next week. Dr I and Lost Beat, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.040 our clinical associate professor of Medicine at the n y 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.000 U Landgoing Medical Center. On the phone from New York City. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.680 This is Bloomberg business Week with Carol Mazer and Jason 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.440 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Jason and I talked about this early. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.079 It's the perfect beach read, social distancing beach read mind 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.760 you or stay cation or work from home cation read. Uh, 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.480 there's lots of from home cation, you know. I think 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:13.959 you've a lot of sleep. I'm throwing a lot of 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.360 words out there. Um. It has stolen Super Bowl rings, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.360 it has corporate espionage, and the most famous art heist 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.760 in modern history. It is time for Business Week's annual 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.000 Heist issue. It's a double issue, lots of stories of 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.040 mystery and things gone missing behind it all. Features editor 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.760 Max Chafkin on the phone from Queen's New York, along 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:34.960 with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Weber on the phone 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.439 in Massachusetts. Joel and Max gotta tell you we love 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.000 this issue, and I feel like it's what everybody needs 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:49.560 right now. Well that was why we made it go ahead, Joel. Well, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.720 you know, just the third annual Heist issue. It's a 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.360 huge testament to one Max Chafkin, who has become just 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.760 the captain of this thing. And you know, Max and 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.360 I just like all year long or basically like talking 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.640 about this issue and like putting together our our works 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.920 in progress list or whip list, and you know, trying 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.400 to figure out the ones that are gonna make it 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.880 or not make it. And you know that this issue 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.320 is a culmination really of that process and a huge 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.720 testament to him. And you know, all these UM reads. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.040 You know, we've always said joke that, um, we want 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.640 to kind of steal your summer with this issue and 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.440 and boy, um could we have come out at a 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.880 better moment in time for that. UM. So hopefully everyone 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.800 can you know, pack this around all summer long and 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.520 take their time enjoying it because the stories are just 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:42.560 tremendously good. Max, what is your favorite? I mean, you know, 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.959 I love them all, but the this story that Carol 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.480 mentioned at the top, the Super Bowl Rings pis um 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.640 Is is epic and wonderful. It's by Zeeke Fox and 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.960 I don't want to ruin the whole thing. Um, but 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.240 it's about a very very very committed New England Patriots 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:04.760 fans who decided, uh in basically that thirteen years ago 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.360 to get revenge on on the Giants, and the way 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.760 he decided to do that was by sealing their Super Bowl. 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:16.040 Now and it wasn't even the biggest heist that he 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.200 went math for that, you'll have to read the story. Um. Uh. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.079 You know, you guys talked with clear Subteth yesterday, um 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:28.360 about her story about the Gardner Museum where this five 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.560 million dollar mystery remains, this this sort of thing in 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.520 the art world that no one has ever been able 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.320 to crack. Um. My favorite little detail about that is 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.040 we call it we've called it the case of the 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.640 Empty Frames because the museum has to keep the frames 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.679 empty on the walls because otherwise the the entire museum 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.559 would actually turn over to Harvard and they have to 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.280 keep things exactly as they were when the eras handed 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.120 them down and created the museum. Um. So it's like 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.160 a heist within a heist if they you know, if 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.480 they act out of line. Um and and the stories 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.080 just kind of keep going. There's an amazing one that 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.920 we just published today by Natalie Obico Pearson Um about 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.040 Huawei and Canada where there was once a company called Nortel, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:23.360 a mysterious hack um sink that company Whahwei. It coincides 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.960 with basically the moment in time that Huawei really started 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.240 to emerge as a dominant force. And actually, uh Huahwei 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.200 ended up hiring a whole team of Nortel engineers who 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.320 basically ended up being the ones that built five g 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.400 at Wahwei. Uh. So all of these stories, it's a 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.760 way of talking. And there's another one that we'll talk 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.440 more about tomorrow. I hope um that make it very 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.360 of the moment. So it's a way for us to 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.880 be both timely and and timeless, which is sort of 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.680 one of my favorite attributes that we try and do it. 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.240 They're just so much fun. So, Max, I'm just curious 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.440 about the conversations you guys have in the news room 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.280 when you are putting this together. You gotta think about 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.000 it. It It comes out every year at least for the 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.040 last four years, so you know what goes on in 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.560 the newsroom as you get ready, you know, and you 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.760 plan for this well so I mean these are mostly fun. 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.320 Really not every story in this issue is what I 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.680 would call, you know, a hundred percent fall laugh. Um. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.080 But but for the most part, we're talking about stories 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.520 that are fun and entertaining to report and and and 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.040 entertaining to write and entertaining to read. And so you know, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.920 the reporters in the newsroom like this issue. It's a 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.120 it's a kind of journalist favorite and um. And so yeah, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.680 throughout the year, you know, we're, like Joel said, you know, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.560 we're fielding pitches, um for these stories. The Super Bowl 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.080 one that I mentioned was uh, you know months in 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.480 the making. I think we first started talking about it 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.440 in October and November of last year. Um and uh 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.080 and and and so it's it's kind of a combination 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.640 of just sort of over the year, uh, you know, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.640 fielding a bunch of pitches, but then also trying to 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.880 be a little bit imaginative and think about, you know, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.360 what are some what are business stories that you wouldn't 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.800 necessarily think of as a conventional heist story, but that 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.800 could be thought of that way. And and and that's 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.440 one that's like the North Tell story that that Joel mentioned, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.760 you know, also by the way Happy Canada Day everybody. 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.520 I mean, the story is about a Canadian national champion 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.840 that um was you know, through its own hand, through 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.080 the market, and through a hack was destroyed. And so 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.320 it's not it's not a straight up heist, but it 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.240 is a story where there where some theft plays a role, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.840 and there's also kind of a sort of business theft 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.560 that is like one company taking another company's market share. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.960 So we try to take you know, a a sort 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:38.680 of broader view of heist. And then we and then 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.440 but of course they have to have some like just 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.880 classic you know, take the painting type type type stories 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.240 and and and we actually have two of us issues. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:51.880 So so it's it's a mix Canada Dayay a zoom 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:53.800 cocktail party for that one a little bit later on. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.600 So Max, just one last quick question for you. I mean, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.880 as you odd about this issue, and as Joel pointed out, 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.040 you know, this is one that you're talking about for 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.960 months and months and months of in advance. Obviously the 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.479 world changed pretty dramatically over the past four or five months. 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.840 How does pandemic sort of infuse a project like this 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.879 other than everybody's working remotely and you're probably doing to 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.439 Carol's point just a minute ago, a lot more zoom calls. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.840 But how does it affect it editorially? Yeah, I mean 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.120 in terms of the process, that's all the usual tough 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.480 stuff that everybody's going through. Um. But but in Turm, 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.399 we we thought a lot about how to how to 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.600 treat the pandemic because on one hand, you know, maybe 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.840 maybe people don't want to read anything about you know, 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.600 an art and art theft or something like that, because 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.239 you know it couldn't be furthest thing, furtherest from your 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.760 mind right now. And and our thought was like, look, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.760 people need a break where people are ready to obviously 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.639 that there's there's room for um, there's room for all 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.040 kinds of stories and the pandemic. There is a teachy 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.680 bit of pandemic in this issue. Um. But we just thought, 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.520 you know, time to give people a little bit of 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.960 a break, let them let them read some read some 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.560 news and read some stories that that that you know, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.600 don't touch on this mullable thing that we're going through 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.320 in and hopefully you know, readers will appreciate that. Yeah, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.360 I think it's great timing. Jason and I are still 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.040 talking about the b story. We just love that one 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.480 from from last year. Alright, re up that. Go to 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.639 business week dot com and re up that. Max Chafkin, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.200 thank you so much, Features editor for Bloomberg, the architect 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.800 of the heist issue. Or thanks as well to Joe Webber, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.959 the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.399 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio, 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.400 and it's time to do a little Business Week economics. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.280 Let's talk about everything that's going on in the world 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:48.159 of economics, Carol, because those FED minutes obviously very important 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.200 in terms of setting the tone. UM. Happy to catch 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.600 up with Winny Catalano. Yeah, he's a chief market strategist 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.879 of its Duyveson Capital Management, global investment strategist at Defoe 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.679 Red Mound on the phone for New Jersey. I'm being 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.440 nice to have you back with us. How are you. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.160 I'm doing well, How are you doing okay? I'm trying 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.600 to make sense, you know, and just watching the virus developments, 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.840 watching the economy, watching the market moves. UM, and of 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.439 course we have those FED minutes earlier. You have some 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:22.320 thoughts about the role of the FED, in which you 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:27.520 talk about perpetuating a broken economic system. How so okay, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.760 several years ago I had an email debate going on 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.359 with the then Minneapolis FED president Narayana cut up Coda, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.399 I believe is how you pronounced his name. I asked 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:44.440 a simple question, is the Fed back stopping bad economic behavior? 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.080 Of course, that can happen from time to time, And 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.440 his response was an interesting one. It was that they 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.639 are appointed officials and it is not their job to 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.119 um to do to disagree with say they might disagree with, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.120 but it's not their job to implement different policy than 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:10.080 elected officials, meaning politicians. And I just let that thought. Okay, 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.480 it's sunk in for a while, and then I'm looking 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.280 at the way the market has how the ft has behaved, 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.959 and the markets have behaved in the economy and everything 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.280 else over the years. And a couple of other things 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.600 sorted to fall into place, which deals with the fact 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.520 that we're in an economic system which I call neoliberalism, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:33.040 which is the replacement from Keynesianism. And there are certain 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.800 dynamics and elements that happened within this economic system of 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:43.600 neoliberalism that involved a proactive the central bank. So now 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.680 if you put those two things together. What you get 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.000 is you get a proactive FED. Uh, not reactive like 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.000 it had been in the past. But since the mid 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.520 nineteen nineties, the FET has been proactive. It's been stepping in, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:01.600 has been um avoiding, doing its best to have the 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:07.280 economy avoid an economic downturn. You know, recessions happen and 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:12.000 we end up getting these uh ten year period big 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.399 hits to the economy because they don't allow the normal 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.800 process to occur. So the FED is acting in this 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:25.080 proactive manner. Elected officials love that idea because they don't 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.880 have to make the hard choices. And we do need 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:32.960 a new economic system because clearly neoliberalism is run its course. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.639 Just like Caijianism run its course. Neoliberalism is run its course. 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.879 We need something new, but it's not going to happen 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:45.800 because I called the FED the monetary uh pueterion guard. Uh. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.320 They are the protectors of the emperor, the protectors of 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.520 the empire. Alright, alright, we got a lot of questions, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.480 so you get it. Wait, hold on a second, So 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.960 so go ahead, James, I think you've got something. Well, 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.520 I mean, I have many questions, but how much of 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:06.320 this is crisis induced Vinny, and how much of this 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:11.720 was just going on before and now it's much more apparent. Okay, 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:14.800 everything seems to be a crisis. At least in terms 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.119 this is a big one. I think we can agree 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.080 this is a pretty big This is a big one, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.480 and this was needed. And this is where the FED 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.719 traditionally has been reactive. It's necessary to do because of 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:30.720 what's happened circumstances, you know, uh, force the situation. But 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.120 in prior periods, at the end off and the early 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.760 part of when they went into the QUEUEI to infinity toolbox, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:40.840 it was at a point in time in which the 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.960 financial markets were turning down, the economy was getting a 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.440 little bit weak. It wasn't necessary at that point in time, 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.399 at least from what I can tell that they had 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.200 a step in at that at that particular juncture. So 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.760 there were points along the way in which they did 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.880