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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and i'm Data higher Across Asset reporter with Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: This week on the show, Well, just when it looked

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Speaker 1: like the crypto market had stabilized following the massive blow

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Speaker 1: up of the Terra ecosystem earlier this year, here comes

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Speaker 1: another big blow up, this one arguably more surprising and

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Speaker 1: even more systemically important to the whole industry. Sam Bakman

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Speaker 1: Fried's FTX Exchange. Now, before this, he and his firm

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Speaker 1: were long considered one of the most stable cornerstones of

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Speaker 1: the industry, with the third year old billionaire known as

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Speaker 1: FBF even being described as the JP Morgan or Warren

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Speaker 1: Buffett of digital assets. Even if you've never even dabbled

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Speaker 1: in cry though you've probably watched f t X is

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Speaker 1: funny Super Bowl ad with Larry David, we're seeing FBF

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Speaker 1: paddling around with Tom Brady, or maybe you noticed the

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Speaker 1: f t X logo on the chest of Major League umpires.

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Speaker 1: So what does it mean for the market when such

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Speaker 1: a high profile pillar of the industry collapses in a

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Speaker 1: matter of days. We'll get into it with the chief

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Speaker 1: executive and the chief investment officer of a quantitative crypto

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Speaker 1: hedge fund. But first, fil Donna. You know before every

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Speaker 1: podcast you write down like forty seven questions to ask.

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Speaker 1: I have so many, so many questions. Now we had

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Speaker 1: we actually had SPF himself on this podcast, and I

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Speaker 1: noticed you never asked him like, hey, SPF, when's your

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Speaker 1: thing going to blow up? Well? That but that's the

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Speaker 1: thing about his whole company is that everybody thought they

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Speaker 1: were going to be I mean, they were like the

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Speaker 1: gold Star right. And I'll confess I had a do

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Speaker 1: quan on the podcast one week when it did not

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Speaker 1: occur to me to ask him, when's your thing going

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Speaker 1: to blow up? Hopefully no more blow ups. I'm blushed.

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Speaker 1: People can't see me, but I'm blushing. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: the thing is, in crisis, there's opportunity when stuff blows up.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes traders make the most of it. Yes, I do

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Speaker 1: want to bring in our guests. This is the perfect

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Speaker 1: week for us to be talking to them. I'm really

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Speaker 1: excited to have them on. We have Sadie Rainey. She's

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Speaker 1: a co founder and CEO of Stricks Leviathan and Nico Cordero,

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Speaker 1: he's a ce IO at the company. Welcome to both

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Speaker 1: of you, and thanks so much for joining us on

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Speaker 1: this week's show. Thanks for having us. It's really nice

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Speaker 1: to be here. Despite this week likewise, great to be here.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a rough week, and I do want to

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Speaker 1: get into um all about you guys, and um what

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Speaker 1: you do and how you're faring and what this week

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Speaker 1: has like has been like for for both of you

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Speaker 1: and for your teams. But maybe Sadie, we just start

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Speaker 1: start with you and and I'm hoping you can just

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Speaker 1: lay out for our audience what exactly happened this week?

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Speaker 1: What were some of the major factors the major players involved.

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Speaker 1: So great question. I think that's actually the question that

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Speaker 1: everybody's trying to figure out right now. What what did

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Speaker 1: happen or what is happening? And the big big issue

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Speaker 1: here is really I don't think we have all the

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Speaker 1: pieces of of information. And really it started at the

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Speaker 1: end of last week when there was some back and

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Speaker 1: forth between Finance and f t X on Twitter. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of I guess allegations going around,

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Speaker 1: which there was an immediate response from f t x um,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of that everything's fine, We're all fine, um.

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Speaker 1: And then suddenly, you know, there was very clear signs

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Speaker 1: of distress um for f t X in the market,

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Speaker 1: and Finance came forward with an offer to acquire or

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Speaker 1: bail out f t X more or less, which was

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Speaker 1: very quickly rescinded um. And in that whole process there

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Speaker 1: was a large run on f t x um which

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Speaker 1: dried up their liquidity, leading to them freezing withdrawals. And

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Speaker 1: now there is a very aggressive attempt by f t

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Speaker 1: X too finds a solution to their liquidity so that

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Speaker 1: they can make their investors whole. You know. Also, if

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Speaker 1: i'd be curious if did this catch you guys as

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Speaker 1: much of a surprise as it did the rest of us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it did to be frank, I mean, the speed of

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Speaker 1: which we turned from you know, small rumors on the

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Speaker 1: internet that didn't seem to have validity into f t

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Speaker 1: X freezing accounts was all in a span of about

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Speaker 1: thirty six hours. And like you mentioned in the opening,

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Speaker 1: you know, f t X was largely considered the most

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Speaker 1: trustworthy institutional player in the space outside of the us

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Speaker 1: UM so not including coin base and others. Um, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it was. It was. It was quite a shock, um,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of folks are surprised and angry rightfully. So, yeah, Nicole,

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Speaker 1: I imagine it's and and city. I imagine it's impossible

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Speaker 1: to run a crypto hedge fund without having some sort

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Speaker 1: of exposure to ft X, you know, either as a

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Speaker 1: client or counterparty in some ways. It is it creating

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Speaker 1: any issues for you guys, Yeah, I mean it is

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Speaker 1: difficult to not have exposure to them, you know, within

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Speaker 1: the US. You know, preferably we'd like to keep our

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Speaker 1: capital in the US under US regulated exchanges. But if

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Speaker 1: you want access to derivatives, perpetual futures and capital efficiency

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Speaker 1: through the type of instruments that are offered offshore, you like,

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Speaker 1: you have to be off shore, you know. So we

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Speaker 1: were there. We're a counter party to them. We do

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Speaker 1: have some funds frozen there. It's not the best of situations,

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Speaker 1: but luckily for us, we are, you know, place a

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Speaker 1: large emphasis emphasis on risk management, and so we only

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Speaker 1: had a small portion of our portfolio allocated there, simply

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Speaker 1: because this space is the wild West, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you expect these things that happened just not to ft

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Speaker 1: X any communications or indications of of one n F

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to withdraw funds. At this time, it's

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Speaker 1: a very fluid situation. We're not sure you know what's

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Speaker 1: happening behind the scenes. And Sady, maybe you can talk

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Speaker 1: about just the significance of the events, because we've been

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about how it's been a rough week.

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Speaker 1: Obviously crypto markets tanked at one point during the week

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Speaker 1: it seemed like the horrible sentiment from crypto also had

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Speaker 1: spilled over into the equity space where we saw the

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Speaker 1: SMP five hundred also selling off. Just what is the significance, Like,

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Speaker 1: how momentous of what unfolded over the past couple of days.

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Speaker 1: How momentous is it? It's really momentous in this situation.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've been through a number of market crashes

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Speaker 1: and you know, in the past have also traded with Voyager,

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Speaker 1: or we've used Voyager, not for trading, but we've used

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Speaker 1: Voyager in the past. We also use block Fire, and

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Speaker 1: when there were some indicators that maybe there they were

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Speaker 1: I guess you could say over over their skis um,

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Speaker 1: we stopped trading with them, you know, well ahead of

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Speaker 1: of what happened last spring, and this one I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone saw coming. You know, it was really quick

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Speaker 1: how it happened. It was really fast. And I was

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Speaker 1: actually speaking at coin al It's last week up in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco on Thursday, ironically, and one of the topics

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Speaker 1: I too talked about was risk and how you know,

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Speaker 1: the reason people love this industry is because the crazy

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Speaker 1: returns you can get, but you know, you pay for

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Speaker 1: that with with risk, and you have risk across every avenue,

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Speaker 1: and counterparty risk is just one of those risks. So

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Speaker 1: you really have to make sure that you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the areas out there, um, and you're

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Speaker 1: never literally putting your eggs in one basket because you

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Speaker 1: can never be sure at this stage that everything is

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Speaker 1: what it what it looks like it is on face value.

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Speaker 1: Was it also much more shocking considering that we basically

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Speaker 1: had like weeks or even months of a very I

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Speaker 1: guess we could call it a calm market where we

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Speaker 1: really didn't see prices searching or plunging in any way,

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Speaker 1: but just like meandering for a really long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's exactly correct. I mean, from the outside

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Speaker 1: looking in, it looked like crypto was stabilizing, has sort

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Speaker 1: of forming a foundation from which to find strength after

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Speaker 1: the chaos of May and June um and things were

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Speaker 1: starting to trend, you know, upwards again. Things you're starting

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Speaker 1: to look um like crypto used to look in the

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Speaker 1: early bowl markets. And then obviously everyone was sidewiped by

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Speaker 1: this revelation that you know, very few if anyone, saw coming,

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Speaker 1: you know, city, I know sort of one of the

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Speaker 1: appeals of quant investing is that, you know, you let

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Speaker 1: the math do the work and you sort of take

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Speaker 1: out the human emotion of things. So this strikes me

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Speaker 1: as something that you know, even a quant strategy is

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Speaker 1: going to struggle with just such an out of the

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Speaker 1: blue occurrence. So I'm curious if you could talk about

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Speaker 1: some of your strategies. Um, I know, you have a

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Speaker 1: market neutral strategy that in theory, you know, should be

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Speaker 1: able to weather a type of collapse in prices like

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Speaker 1: this better than a sort of on only or levered

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Speaker 1: up long strategy. How does this type of event affect

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Speaker 1: a quant um is it is it the type of

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Speaker 1: thing that you're just you know, as clueless as everyone else,

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Speaker 1: or is you know, is there something about being a

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Speaker 1: quant in the space that allows you to navigate it

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Speaker 1: a little better. Uh. In general, yes, we I definitely

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Speaker 1: believe we can navigate a lot of these incidents much

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Speaker 1: more efficiently than than a lot of our I guess

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Speaker 1: a lot of our comrades out there. But really, you know,

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Speaker 1: quant is non human. Uh. You know, it's it's looking

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Speaker 1: at the data, it's it's trusting the data. And but

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Speaker 1: you have to set up your system with a very

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Speaker 1: risk oriented mentality. So you have to you have, the

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Speaker 1: computer can can only be as good as as you

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Speaker 1: let it be in those situations. And you can't just

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Speaker 1: listen to everything that your your signals say. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have to set it up so that you are

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Speaker 1: mitigating risk. Do you always have to have multiple counterparties

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Speaker 1: in these this industry, you can't. You can't trade with

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Speaker 1: just one one place. You also have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you have you know, we set maximums for any

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Speaker 1: one counterparty. Um. So even though prices might be the

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Speaker 1: best in trading, might be might be the most profitable

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Speaker 1: with one exchange, We're not going to put eight of

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Speaker 1: our funds there. We just we just won't. We're not

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Speaker 1: willing to do that. And you know, so our portfolio

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Speaker 1: has limits per per trading partner, it has overall limits

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Speaker 1: for signals. You know, we are a long short fund

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Speaker 1: and our main fund, our system will only go to

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Speaker 1: a certain percentage short, so you know, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: what the market looks like UM, and if all of

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Speaker 1: our signals wanted to short it, we still wouldn't short.

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Speaker 1: We'd only shot up to UM the threshold percentage. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to really make sure that your

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Speaker 1: guard rails are set in place for for a quant fund.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, having different strategies definitely helps. Having

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Speaker 1: a market neutral d FI fund helps in this situation. Having,

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Speaker 1: you know, our d FI fund was you know, has

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Speaker 1: you know so far been completely unaffected by this because

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Speaker 1: it's self custodied UM using decentralized exchanges, so we don't

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Speaker 1: have the centralized party risk of somebody mishandling our our

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Speaker 1: funds without us knowing it. So the system, though again

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Speaker 1: I'm just being repetitive, but the system is only as

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Speaker 1: good as as what you train it to be. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys don't want to sort of give up

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Speaker 1: the ingredients of the secret sauce or anything, but I'm

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Speaker 1: curious what sort of some of the main elements are

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Speaker 1: of your strategies and I'm guessing trend following and momentum

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Speaker 1: plays a big role. Yeah, and the flagship funds, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's trects. We have systematic in nature, takes direction or

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Speaker 1: exposure both on the lawn and short side. We have

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Speaker 1: a mixture of trend momentum, cross sectional momentum us really

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Speaker 1: plain relative value across the assets that we trade, as

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Speaker 1: well as some idiosyncratic signals that are that we found

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Speaker 1: about unique market structure within crypto. UM you know, would

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Speaker 1: pick up the bulk of the of the systematic fund

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Speaker 1: and then on the market neutral with DeFi yield funds.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's largely driven by yield opportunities with a

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Speaker 1: with a heavy risk overlay being able to hedge out,

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Speaker 1: you know, crypto data exposure in uh you know, a

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Speaker 1: crypto native way entirely on chain without having to interact

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Speaker 1: with centralized counterparties. So, Nico, can you actually talk more

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Speaker 1: about your market neutral fund, because this is something I

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Speaker 1: had been writing about over the summer when UM well

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Speaker 1: and also earlier in the year we had crypto prices

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Speaker 1: crashing in May and June and what market neutral strategies

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Speaker 1: do is they tend to hold up better during those times. Right,

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Speaker 1: So maybe can you just lay out for our audience

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Speaker 1: what is the market neutral strategy and how is it

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Speaker 1: faring on during weeks like the one we just had. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so market neutral in this sense is we have some

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Speaker 1: exposure to crypto price movement through the assets that we're

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Speaker 1: holding within a variety of decentralized that change and other

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Speaker 1: defy protocols. But then we utilize hedging strategies to net

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Speaker 1: out that price exposure. UM. So that way, you know,

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Speaker 1: if ethereum goes up, um, you know, our long holdings

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Speaker 1: and ethereum go also go up, but are short exposure

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Speaker 1: goes down and it kind of nets out. There's more

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Speaker 1: to it than that, you know, it requires real time

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Speaker 1: rebalancing to account for impermanent loss and and other issues

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Speaker 1: that arise onto centralized of changes. But in a nutshell,

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Speaker 1: that's how it works. So does this event this week?

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Speaker 1: Will it change your strategies going forward? Change the way

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Speaker 1: you do business? You know, it sounds like in a

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Speaker 1: way you were, you know, sort of prepared for something

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Speaker 1: like this to happen, you know, limiting your counterparty exposure

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. But what's is there a

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Speaker 1: lesson learned that that you'll carry for forward from this

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Speaker 1: week's events. I mean, for one, we'll probably reduce our

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Speaker 1: individual exposure anyone counterparty even more. Um. It gets difficult

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Speaker 1: because there are not a lot of large exchanges with

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Speaker 1: good liquidity that you can trust. And then we've also

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Speaker 1: started the very initial conversations of like around okay, do

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Speaker 1: we take our flagship fund and only interact on decentralized

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Speaker 1: options uh to to mitigate the central the centralized counter

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Speaker 1: party risk. Um. So that's early stage discussion. But because

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Speaker 1: we run the market neutral DE five fund, we have

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Speaker 1: all the technical infrastructure in place too, self custody our

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Speaker 1: flagship fund and you know, only interact on uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: on chain and Sadie, maybe you can just, um just

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Speaker 1: to go back to the basics, basically, tell us more

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Speaker 1: about you guys company, how you got interested in crypto,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can even fold in a bit about

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Speaker 1: your background and Nicho's background, because you guys both have

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Speaker 1: very interesting, um sort of past lives before your your

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Speaker 1: crypto lives. Sure happy to kind of give a little

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Speaker 1: more color about our background. Um So I'm the co

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Speaker 1: founder of strict Slevive and and UM originally founded the

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Speaker 1: company with Jesse Proudman about five years ago. And I

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Speaker 1: met Jesse when I went to work UM for him

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Speaker 1: at his last startup, UM, which was a private cloud company.

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Speaker 1: I was financial controller there. That company was acquired by

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Speaker 1: IBM in so I stayed on led the integration of

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Speaker 1: the accounting and finance operations teams into Big Blue. Didn't

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Speaker 1: really love UM going into a three sixty thou person

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Speaker 1: company after being in a sixty person startup. And Jesse

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Speaker 1: was a distinguished engineer at IBM, so he UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: he ended up in their blockchain group and really fell

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Speaker 1: down the crypto rabbit hole, as we all do. We'd

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Speaker 1: stay good friends. So I knew he was getting more

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Speaker 1: and more into crypto and you know, dabbling and mining

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Speaker 1: and trading UM, but then really really got passionate about

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Speaker 1: trading and from as a technologist, felt like that was

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Speaker 1: a huge opportunity UM. So approached me towards the end

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Speaker 1: of seventeen and said, hey, I've got this business idea. UM,

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Speaker 1: what do you think You knew that we needed to

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Speaker 1: have structure and operations and legal and compliance. But that's

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Speaker 1: all stuff that he finds UM as exciting as watching

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Speaker 1: paint dry. So he's like, hey, can you know, do

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Speaker 1: you want to do this? I know that's kind of

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Speaker 1: your wheelhouse. So that's how we started. I was really

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Speaker 1: looking at trading in the space and you know, individually trading.

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Speaker 1: Back at that point in time in crypto, it was

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Speaker 1: impossible to capture any kind of UM gains efficiently. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could see the price discrepancies across different exchanges, but

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Speaker 1: by the time you could actually execute a trade, there

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Speaker 1: was no profit left in it. You know, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: trade by a p I or if you did trade

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Speaker 1: by a PI, you know, trades were dropped or double filled,

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Speaker 1: or would look like they weren't filled, and then two

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Speaker 1: days later they'd show up as completed. And so it was.

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Speaker 1: It was just super inefficient. So UM we started a

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Speaker 1: launch of fund um with actually Jesse as the main

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Speaker 1: investor to start and some of his friends and then

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Speaker 1: m built the trading technology at the same time. UM

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Speaker 1: launched the fund, the first fund in April ofen and

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Speaker 1: by then realized that our technology was just as valuable

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Speaker 1: UM as as our fund methodology was. So UM and

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Speaker 1: stepping back a little bit. After we we formed the

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Speaker 1: company officially in January, we realized we needed somebody with

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Speaker 1: much deeper finance UM skill set than we had. So

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Speaker 1: that's where we were introduced through a friend to Nico

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Speaker 1: and it was you know, it was as soon as

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Speaker 1: we met Nico, we we knew like, this is this

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Speaker 1: is the person that we're going to grow this company with.

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Speaker 1: So um he joined really early on as well. So

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Speaker 1: when you know, when we went live and April and

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Speaker 1: bought our first bitcoin, which the price at that point

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Speaker 1: in time was nine thousand dollars UM thereabouts. UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: Nico was there placed our first trade. So it's been

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome to have him at the Helm since then. Yeah, Nico,

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Speaker 1: why don't you why don't you take it from there?

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Speaker 1: How did you end up in this rabbit hole? Uh?

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Speaker 1: What's your what's your back story? Yeah? Absolutely, um, so high.

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Speaker 1: I ended up in the rabbit hole of crypto as

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Speaker 1: I used to be in the U. S. Military spense

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Speaker 1: of time over in Iraq and Afghanistan. Um it was

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Speaker 1: around two thousand and ten. I think it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I read about bitcoin. UM. I did not

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Speaker 1: put everything I had into it, or I'd be retired

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Speaker 1: on an island right now. But I was entirely fascinated

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Speaker 1: by this concept of decentralized currency that had no intermediaries

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Speaker 1: and no overarching control. I mean, it was very hard

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Speaker 1: to sit in Iraq and looking around at the you know,

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Speaker 1: the complete collapse of their infrastructure and not see the

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Speaker 1: value add um, which is not as easily visible from

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Speaker 1: the streets of the US where we don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about those things. Yeah, what I'd like to rewind

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Speaker 1: a little bit and get back to the idea of

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Speaker 1: defy um. You know, as you point out UM, I

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Speaker 1: feel like defy has a bit of a told you

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Speaker 1: so a moment right now after what happens to a centralized,

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Speaker 1: huge important player like f t x UM. So I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: where are the opportunities in defy that are most exciting

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Speaker 1: to you guys, and especially in the you know, the

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Speaker 1: notion of yield farming. I feel like that seemed to

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Speaker 1: get pretty toxic after the collapse of of Terra and

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Speaker 1: it's it's anchor program. UM. So what you know, is

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Speaker 1: yield farming too risky these days? Or or there or

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Speaker 1: their places where you know, it's still attractive. Uh and

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Speaker 1: and sort of what projects what you know? Are you

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Speaker 1: are you finding the opportunities in these days? Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 1: hadn't I told you moment here, Kase. Everybody who operates

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Speaker 1: on de FI is sitting with their own capital, in

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Speaker 1: their own self custodied wallets and not worrying about some

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Speaker 1: third party stirring off the their funds um and do

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Speaker 1: any illicit things with it. Um. So definitely, and I

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Speaker 1: told you so a moment. In terms of your farming,

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Speaker 1: there's still plenty of opportunities out there. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is we're very early stages. I know at this point.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bitcoin has been around for you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's been almost thirteen years now since the White paper

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Speaker 1: originally came out, But all of these additional use cases

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Speaker 1: around the centralized finances are still in their infancy. So

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Speaker 1: you know, if the trillions of dollars of global economy,

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Speaker 1: even if it captures one percent of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: the opportunity is still quite massive. Um. And so the

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Speaker 1: opportunity still remains, and we're still pretty bullish on it. Nico.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about what you

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Speaker 1: guys are doing right now? Maybe you can give us

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Speaker 1: just a bit more specifics. I know, and the notes

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Speaker 1: you had sent to us, which granted you sent before

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Speaker 1: everything happened, but you said that there are potentially some

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Speaker 1: areas in the space that are undervalued. So can you

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Speaker 1: just tell us a bit more about that from an

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Speaker 1: undervalued or overvalued perspective? Like one of the reasons we

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Speaker 1: built the system we did on the flagship funds because

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Speaker 1: that is an impossible number to peg um. You know,

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Speaker 1: she's bit coined, be a million dollars or a thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars or less, like no one really knows, and it's

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Speaker 1: dependent on future IDIO seeing credit events involving the decisions

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Speaker 1: by governments all around the globe. So it's extremely difficult

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Speaker 1: to you know, put a number on that. Undervalued in

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Speaker 1: the sense that I think people are writing off DeFi

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Speaker 1: after the last year year and a half because of

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Speaker 1: the blow ups and the collapses and the amount of

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Speaker 1: money that has been lost is where things are undervalued. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, these systems are in therifancy, they're not user friendly,

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Speaker 1: but if those problems get solved, you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of value in removing intermediaries and creating a more

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Speaker 1: frictionless um you know, financial system. And again, you know,

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Speaker 1: this goes back to discovering this when I was in Iraq. Like,

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Speaker 1: this means a lot more to somebody in Africa or

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Speaker 1: the Middle East or other parts of the world, and

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Speaker 1: it does to us sitting in America, Like, we're not

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Speaker 1: I'm not particularly concerned about my bank going to zero

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Speaker 1: dollars and stealing my money or the US government, you know,

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Speaker 1: collapsing in the next five or ten years. But that

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Speaker 1: is a really real concern for many people around the globe.

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Speaker 1: What about all coins, because I think you guys also

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Speaker 1: were favorable towards certain old coins. Yeah, we are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's hard. I think this whole

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Speaker 1: space will look very different in five years than it

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Speaker 1: does today, and even more different in ten years than

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Speaker 1: it does today. But we that stricts are not particularly

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Speaker 1: fond of the idea that there will be one currency

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Speaker 1: to rule them all. They think there are reasons that

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Speaker 1: multiple currencies will continue to persist, and you know, we're

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Speaker 1: particularly excited about the DeFi ones. But you know, decentralized

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Speaker 1: identity is another very interesting area that we're looking at

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Speaker 1: UM and I think it's kind of necessary to take

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Speaker 1: the next step in DeFi. So it's all inter related now,

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Speaker 1: I know, is quantz. You guys have your heads in

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Speaker 1: the data and you know the algoes and everything. But

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Speaker 1: I think what this week really hammered home for me,

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Speaker 1: as as well as the collapse of Terra, is how

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Speaker 1: important these sort of larger than life personalities can be

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Speaker 1: in crypto, you know, whether it's FPF or do Quan

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Speaker 1: and especially you know, these flame wars break out on

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Speaker 1: Twitter between you know, Do Kuan and his critics and now,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, Finance and f t X, and

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Speaker 1: it's almost like this kind of machismo bravado alpha male

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Speaker 1: battle that goes on and really can cause some destruction

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Speaker 1: in the in the whole space like we've seen. So Sadie,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious how you think about that specifically. You know, uh,

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Speaker 1: level headed woman, uh, surrounded by a bunch of bros,

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Speaker 1: you know, duking it out on Twitter. How do you

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Speaker 1: sort of incorporate the risk of all of that into

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Speaker 1: what you do? Yeah, the story of my life being

430
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: a bunch of bros, I mean, being a woman in

431
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: technology to start was was big enough. Uh, you know,

432
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: lack of diversity, and then I went into crypto, you know,

433
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: just because it wasn't bad enough. But you know, I

434
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: have to say I don't work with Brose. I would

435
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: not describe Nico or any of our team is rose

436
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: thankfully they're fantastic. But I have five brothers. That's what

437
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: I meant. He was, Yeah, that five brothers. That's a

438
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: that's a lot of That's a lot of men in

439
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: one room. So really, I mean, Setoci Nakamoto had it

440
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: right by by building this amazing, amazing ecosystem and then

441
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: never revealing his, her or their identity, you know, not

442
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: Setoci is not out there influencing what's happening UM, which

443
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: is truly magical. Like that is the only reason I

444
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: would want to meet them is to find out, like

445
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: how did you when things have gotten so crazy? Sometimes

446
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: like how did you keep your mash up? But you know,

447
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: I think some of these some of these projects where

448
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: the influencers get a little bit larger than life and

449
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: they get a get to you know, too focused on

450
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: their social following UM and less focused on the business.

451
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: That's definitely hasn't ended up being a good thing in

452
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: almost any context. So you know, going forward. It's something

453
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: to really kind of look at more of like, hey,

454
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: who you know, is the head of this project getting

455
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: a little bit too influential? And the holy grail right

456
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: now in crypto is valuation. You know what it what is?

457
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: What are the fundamentals of crypto? What are the fundamentals

458
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: of evaluating any specific crypto asset? And we just we

459
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: don't have that. I mean in traditional markets, you you know,

460
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: you have the c f A society and that's like

461
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: we have experts basically who can value assets and um.

462
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: In crypto, we don't have that. You know, there's just

463
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: everyone kind of uses a different methodology. Everyone has their

464
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: own into mental methodology. But but when it comes down

465
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: to it, there isn't really a tried and true valuation

466
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: methodology for cryptos. So we have to use sometimes some

467
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: of these more like I guess non traditional ways of

468
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: evaluating a project, and you know, the who's leading it

469
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: and how influential they are is probably going to factor

470
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: into that a little bit more than maybe it would

471
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: have previously. You know, social there's a lot of strategies

472
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: out there that use social social sentiment and social indicators. Um,

473
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I'm not saying we're going to

474
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: go into that direction because we haven't before. But uh,

475
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: it's uh definitely proven in the last six months at

476
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: least to be somewhat of a negative indicator if the

477
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: leader has um a little bit too much of a

478
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: of a voice in a platform, and it definitely makes

479
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: our jobs harder, I think for me and you, Mike

480
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: at least. But but on the on the flip side,

481
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: it's those big personalities that also draw the capital and

482
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: to begin with, you know, so it's it's kind of

483
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: a dual edged sword. I guess. Yeah, that's good point.

484
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: You know, you do need to have that charisma, you

485
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: know people. I was talking to a VC investor recently,

486
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: a very prolific investor here and Europe, and and his

487
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: comment was, I just write checks to people, you know,

488
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't even listen to their idea. If I like

489
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: the person, I think they've got potential, Like I write

490
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: that first check and and then I write the second

491
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: check once I see how good their idea is. UM,

492
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: So you do need that personality for for a lot

493
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: of that money to come in. That's fascinating that that's

494
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: the decision. No one would a single check filled out

495
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: on No, I never have. I certainly never would. But Sadie,

496
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: maybe you can just talk about what some of the

497
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: um in your what in your estimation are some of

498
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: the unanswered questions that we still have with everything that

499
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: happened with FTX. Obviously, the word regulation gets thrown around

500
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: a lot, but it's not so obvious what that might

501
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: actually look like. Do we potentially see more regulation of

502
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: these centralized exchanges? And what else? Does? What else would

503
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: you like answers to? What what questions are out there

504
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: that you'd like answered? Still, so I think really a

505
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: lot is going to come out in the next week

506
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: or two about and about the handling of the situation,

507
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: you know, hindsight bias. We we can go back and

508
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: try to figure out what what happened. Um, it would

509
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: be really great to understand the Alameda um F t

510
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: X transactions and how how some of that came came

511
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: to be. You know, it would be great to understand

512
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: a little bit more why Finance made that offer and

513
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: walked away so quickly. You know, there's there's a lot

514
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: of rumors around that, and you know, but in the end,

515
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: like I don't think we'll ever truly know, we're gonna know.

516
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's the famous quote, there's what I

517
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: what I remember happened, what you remember happened, and then

518
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: there's what actually happened. So we're going to get a

519
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: lot of that, I think. But the underanswered questions are

520
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: really how are they going to they how are they

521
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: going to deal with it? You know, we've got some

522
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: examples of what I consider to be a really respectable

523
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 1: way to handle a disaster like this, when with how

524
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: Voyager has handled it. You know, Steve at Voyager I

525
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: think is a very very admirabile person. It was really

526
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: hard to see him go through that. But I feel

527
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: like they have done a really great job of trying

528
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: to be as transparent with their customers as possible. Others

529
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: who I won't say, they say because I don't want

530
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: to say the names, all right, So Celsius is I

531
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: think on the opposite spectrum where, um, you know, what

532
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: they've done to customers is really hard to see, and

533
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: you know, they I don't believe if cared that much

534
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: how it's impacted customers, and the transparency just hasn't been there.

535
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm really hoping that this f T

536
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: x sit oration resolves and that they can restore confidence.

537
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: And no, no matter what happens, I think you asked

538
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: about regulation. No matter what happens, you know, regulation is coming.

539
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: It's always been coming, especially for for people in the

540
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: United States. Like if you want to be in the

541
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: United States and stay in the United States and being crypto,

542
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: you just have to know that regulations coming. It's just

543
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: a fact of life. And we might not like it

544
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: in some aspects, but but it is there, and it

545
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: is it is a protection for investors, right And you know,

546
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: that whole narrative seems to have shifted over the years.

547
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: You know it it seemed to be at first, you know,

548
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: the lack of regulation in crypto was sort of a

549
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: big selling point, you know, relative to the hundreds and

550
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: pages of regulation and traditional markets. But one thing that

551
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: occurred to me this week is, and it's you know,

552
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: I think it's occurred to others over the years, is

553
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: that crypto seems to be stumbling into the problems that

554
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: rad FI had solved with regulations in the past, as

555
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: as annoying as those regulations can be. And one of

556
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: them that really spring to mind to me this week

557
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: is this notion that you know, well, what is uh

558
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: SPFS empires an exchange? Uh, it was a trading shop.

559
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: And you know within all crypto exchanges, you know there's

560
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: also basically a brokera gentleman as well. Where you know,

561
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: should the regulations go where you know you're either an exchange,

562
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: you're a brokerage, or you're a trading firm and not

563
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: a combo of the threes? Is it too risky to

564
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: sort of have all those businesses, uh, sort of, if

565
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: not under one roof, at least under one sort of

566
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: central control of an individual like SPF. So having separation

567
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: is kind of a basic principle of business. You know,

568
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: really any any you know, SORR, Sarbanes, Oxley and and

569
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: a lot of other um and you know a lot

570
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: of other regulatory requirements really are focused on you know,

571
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: business controls and segregation of duties. And you know, in

572
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: a highly regulated industry there's still you know, moments where

573
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: there's just that temptation to sort of well play in

574
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: the gray areas, and you know, inevitably it tends to

575
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: hurt clients and retail customers and investors. UM. So I

576
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: think there is inevitably going to need to be regulation.

577
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: There's a tendency I think to overregulate in UM in

578
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: situations where you don't understand the nuances of of an industry.

579
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: That is one thing that I worry is going to

580
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: happen right now with with what happened at FTX, I'm

581
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: afraid that, you know, there's going to be a little

582
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: bit of a knee jerk reaction to overregulate. Some of

583
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: those protections are really really important for for our investors.

584
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: And you know, we've always been compliance focused and compliance first.

585
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: We've never you know, we we have an in fully

586
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: engaged compliance firm. UM. You know that's that's on call

587
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: for all of our questions we UM. You know, we

588
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: have two different legal teams that we work with, so

589
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: we're always trying to make sure that we're playing within

590
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: the rules. But UM, there are a lot of people

591
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: out there who who uh feel the opposite. And I know,

592
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, Sam Bankman Freed actually got hazed pretty badly

593
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: recently for for being pro regulation. UM ironically, so go

594
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: along lawyers is the way to play crypto. Well a

595
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: rough week indeed, uh, Nico, I assume you're not ready

596
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: to go back to Iraq after this week but Sadio,

597
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: you tempted to go back to IBM after a week

598
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: like this? Um no, I do joke. That's my fantasy

599
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: occasionally when I'm just like, I worked like a twenty

600
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: hour day and I'm you know, the markets never stopped,

601
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll just go work for

602
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: Amazon Like that just sounds like really relaxing, And then

603
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: I just laugh. I'm like yeah, and in two weeks

604
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: I would be going crazy. I mean, I love, love,

605
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: love love the cryptal world. I love blockchain. I'm so

606
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: passionate about what we're doing. I love going to work

607
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: every day, and I think I would absolutely go crazy

608
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: if I ever had to take a job that was,

609
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: you know, at a big corporation and wasn't playing in

610
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: this space. Wow what a segue, speaking of going crazy. Wow,

611
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: that's really good, right. I think she planned planned that?

612
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: Did you plan that? Sadie? It is that time for

613
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: the craziest things we saw in markets this week? Pretty

614
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: normal week though, nothing crazier, nothing at all. I actually

615
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: have a million things. I have a one million crazy

616
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need you to narrow that down the one,

617
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: maybe two if you got too many. I have three

618
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: how about that. But one is from a listener, Brian.

619
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: I hope Brian, I'm saying your name correctly. I always

620
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: say that he flat to us that the Ontario Teacher's

621
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: pension hadn't invested in FTX. That was going around Twitter

622
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: as well, the Big pension invested in f Yeah. Yeah,

623
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: for mine, I had so Sam big mun Freed. There

624
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: had been so much about how he was this grand billionaire.

625
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: He had been worth something like twenty six billion dollars

626
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: up until very recently, and he suffered midweek a drop

627
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: to his wealth and he as of Wednesday, I think,

628
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: had been worth somewhere around a billion dollars. On Tuesday

629
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: it had been fifteen point six billion dollars and it

630
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: was the fastest, the biggest one day collapse ever among

631
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: billionaires tracked by Bloomberg. And I think there's speculation that

632
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: he might actually be a negative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no

633
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: for sure, but just the job is so so yeah.

634
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: He should not go near any Ontario teachers. I would

635
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: have a worried the entire Ontario school system. If how

636
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: about you guys, what's uh slim pickings this week? I know,

637
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: but what's the craziest thing you guys saw this week.

638
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: So I was reading today about this jewel called the

639
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: Fortune Pink, which sold at a Christie's auction is eighteen

640
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: point eighteen carrot pink diamond. Oh it's mine. If I

641
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: put it, well, well done, you did well and that

642
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: so it's sold for twenty point five million dollars. And

643
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: I just kind of laughed a little. Well. I think

644
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: it's funny because every time I'm trying to explain like

645
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: n F T S two or crypto to someone and

646
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: they're like, but how does it have value? And I'm like, well,

647
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, here's somebody paid twenty million dollars for a

648
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: shiny pink rock, Like, I mean, how does that beautiful rock?

649
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: It's true, it's a it's a great that's a great comparison.

650
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: I would say baseball cards. You know what's uh, you know,

651
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth, baseball cards a piece of cardboard. But you

652
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: know what's the what's the value to a collector? So

653
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: I guess a giant pink rock, especially that's got a

654
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: tire hand out wearing that it tires my hand out

655
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, sure, I'm sure. How about Unico anything

656
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: see this week? Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this,

657
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: and I could not think of anything crazier than what's

658
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: already been a topic. But the CEO of one exchange

659
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: tweeting out that they were going to sell half a

660
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: billion dollars of another exchanges cryptocurrency resulting in a like

661
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: eight hundred styled bank run that completely bankrupted FTX has

662
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: got to be the craziest thing this week. I know,

663
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: the whole the whole show is the crazy. I I

664
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: give it to you, Dico. It sometimes the obvious, in

665
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: plain sight is the winner. But I I think we're

666
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: all kind of speechless after after this week. Wow, I'll

667
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: give you mine, I will say, Uh. The only thing

668
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: that rivals crypto sometimes for for craziness is the art market.

669
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: You know, I love the art market. Um So Paul Allen,

670
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: the co founder of Microsoft past way and his estate

671
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: sold his art collection. So the donna do not look

672
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: over at my notes Here're not looking. Don't look in

673
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: no peeking. But it's time and I regret to inform you,

674
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: Sadie Nico, you're now consistants on our little game show

675
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: here called the prices precise not the price is right.

676
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: This is different but the same with yes, the Bullmarket

677
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: for Lawyers insists that we changed the name. What do

678
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: you suppose the total value when it went up for

679
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: auction at Christie's on Wednesday evening? Total value for Paul

680
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: Allen's art collection? How many pieces are part of it?

681
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: Sixty artworks. I'm gonna go with two hundred and forty

682
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: eight million dollars million dollars. That's a very precise price

683
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: right there. It's a we're playing prices for eight million. Okay.

684
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: The other two contestants, Sadie, what's what's your guests on

685
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: Paul Allen's art collection? So I believe I've heard from

686
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: a couple of people that he was had really great

687
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 1: taste in art, or he had like quite a collection. Um,

688
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna I'm gonna go much higher. I'm gonna

689
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: say you your b is in the books, Nico. This

690
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: is your chance to show up the CEO here and

691
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: prove why you deserve to be the chief Investment Officer.

692
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: What's your what's your bid for Paul Allen's sixty piece

693
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: art collection? I remember price prices precise roles are similar

694
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: to another game show you might know. So you could

695
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: go one dollar, you could go one dollar above the

696
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: highest highest bid yep, yeah, I'm gonna go with alright, alright,

697
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: you're all away off the mark. But Nico's closest one

698
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: point five billion dollars for Paul Allen's art collection is

699
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: that nuts one of the biggest ones. Birch Forest by

700
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 1: Gustav cli Clints. I hope I'm saying that hundred five million,

701
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: one point five billion, that crazy. Yes, I bought it all.

702
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: By the way you hawk that diamond. Yeah, I was

703
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: walking on with my diamond, with my pink diamond, and yeah,

704
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: now you need a bigger apartment to display at all. Yeah,

705
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: Sadie and Nico, we can't thank you enough. I know

706
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: it must have been a stressful week for you and

707
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: you probably, uh, the last thing you wanted to do

708
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 1: was rehash it all on a podcast, But we really

709
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time and helping us understand what

710
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: a crazy week it was. Yeah, thanks for having us, absolutely,

711
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: thank you for having Yeah, thank you guys, what goes up.

712
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week and so then you can

713
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or

714
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We love it. If you

715
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: took the time to rate and review the show on

716
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts so more listeners can find us, and you

717
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, follow me at Reaganonymous, Goldona

718
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 1: hierarch Is at Bldona Hirach. You can also follow Bloomberg

719
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: Podcasts at podcasts. What Goes Up is produced by Stacy Wong.

720
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time.