1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,240
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and.

3
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,320
Speaker 2: Welcome back George Nori with you. You've got a great

4
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,040
Speaker 2: couple hours coming up with you with La Marzuli, author

5
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 2: of a number of books, DVDs and films. He is

6
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,439
Speaker 2: a supernaturalist and thinks humanity is headed for what he

7
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 2: has called to come, the coming Great Deception. La. Welcome back,

8
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:21,240
Speaker 2: my friend.

9
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,279
Speaker 3: Have you been real good? George, thanks for having me on.

10
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 3: Good to hear your voice.

11
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 2: Looking forward to this and your trailer is fantastic. Holy

12
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 2: Thank you're out Holy Fire. We've got it linked up

13
00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,560
Speaker 2: at Coast tocoastam dot com.

14
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 3: Thank you sir.

15
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 2: When did you come out with this film?

16
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 3: Well, it's only been released about a week at most.

17
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,040
Speaker 3: It took us about a year. My business partner and I,

18
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 3: Gil Zimmerman, we sort of had to redirect and realized that, wow,

19
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,839
Speaker 3: we need to hop on this when we started to

20
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 3: hear about this phenomenon that's been going on for seventeen

21
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 3: hundred years, i e. The Holy Fire, which has been

22
00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 3: happening at the site in Jerusalem known as the Church

23
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 3: of the Holy Supulcher. So we kind of redirected our steps.

24
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 3: We were actually going to go across the pond, and

25
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 3: we had all these archaeologists and sites and museums and

26
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 3: storytellers and druids and everything else, and we pulled the

27
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 3: plug on it and focused on this film. And like

28
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 3: I said, it took us about a year from start

29
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 3: to finish to actually get it. But it's available Elimarzoli

30
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 3: dot com. You can stream it for under five bucks.

31
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,200
Speaker 2: You can't beat that. That's a great little weekend night. Huh.

32
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 2: There you go, the Shroud of Turan. Give me your

33
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 2: impression of what it is.

34
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 3: Well, it's not a painting. It's not applied by the

35
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 3: hand of man. There's no die on it, there's no

36
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,759
Speaker 3: paint on it. It's never been reproduced at all. I mean,

37
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,039
Speaker 3: skeptics try to come up with something, but there doesn't

38
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 3: get anything like it. So we're looking. In my opinion,

39
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 3: and I've been on the show before talking about it

40
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 3: calling it God's calling card, because in my opinion, I

41
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 3: think that's what it is. I think it's forensic evidence

42
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 3: of the greatest event of history, the resurrection of the

43
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 3: fully god fully maned Jesus of Nazareth. And I mean

44
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,480
Speaker 3: when scientists look at this thing. There's actually a there's

45
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 3: actually a clip in the film where Russ pray All,

46
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 3: who's a professional syndinologist, someone who studies the shroud. He's

47
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 3: written books on it. Joe Marino's same thing, written books

48
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 3: on it. These guys are a lot, way, way deeper

49
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 3: than I am. And I consider myself not in the

50
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 3: shallow end of the pool. But you know, Joe Marino's

51
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 3: written four hundred and five hundred pages on this thing,

52
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,839
Speaker 3: so it's very very deep. And in the film, Russ

53
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 3: Praelle goes, it either is or it isn't, and if

54
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 3: it isn't, then what is it? And no one can

55
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 3: come up with it. There's actually right now a million

56
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 3: a million dollar reward for anyone who can show how

57
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,480
Speaker 3: the show was made, and there are no takers because

58
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 3: something very enigmatic is on this cloth. And the cloth

59
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 3: is about three and a half feet by about fourteen feet.

60
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 3: It bears the image of a crucified man, but very

61
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 3: difficult to see, and in order to in order to

62
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,799
Speaker 3: really see it, you got to step back about six

63
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 3: or seven feet. When you get up close to it,

64
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 3: it just it just fades away because it's on the

65
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 3: image is on the very very top most part of

66
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 3: the weave. It's a herringbone weave on a linen cloth,

67
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,919
Speaker 3: very very top of the fibrils, and the image is

68
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 3: actually fading, which is kind of bizarre in itself, but

69
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's the most studied artifact on the planet.

70
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,399
Speaker 3: There's no doubt about that. And we can talk about

71
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 3: the carbon fourteen dating and how that was completely skewed

72
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 3: and and all the other things, but it's uh, I

73
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 3: call it God's calling card. And and the you know,

74
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 3: the deeper I go into it, the more I study it.

75
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 3: And let me just do a little sidebar here. When

76
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 3: I was in the edit booth working on the film,

77
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, Gil and I are working on

78
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 3: this scene together and we got to the scourging and

79
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 3: that's where they spear. Right. Well, no, the scourging is different.

80
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 3: The scourging is when he's tied to a pillar and

81
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 3: the Romans are whipping him. Now, you know, I've been

82
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,000
Speaker 3: a Christian for forty five years and I've read the Gospels,

83
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 3: but you know, okay, he scourge You think, well, maybe

84
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,719
Speaker 3: it wasn't that bad. Then you look at the shroud

85
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, my gosh, he was beaten, with

86
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 3: him within an inch of his life. The scourging is very,

87
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 3: very brutal, extremely so there's not an inch on his

88
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 3: body that's not lacerated in some way. And the only

89
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 3: place that the Roman and these guys are professional tortures,

90
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 3: I mean, this is what they do. That The only

91
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 3: the only place that the whips didn't hit was right

92
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,360
Speaker 3: where the heart is because if they hit him there

93
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 3: they could kill him. So he's he's basically scourged within

94
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 3: an inch of his life. I mean, it's brutal. The

95
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 3: scourging is really brutal, and all of that comes out

96
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,520
Speaker 3: on the shroud. I mean people didn't realize it until

97
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,720
Speaker 3: eighteen ninety eight. Was Sekundapia. We can talk about that,

98
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 3: but that's when that's when this whole thing opens up.

99
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 3: Eighteen ninety eight.

100
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 2: Now the shroud was discovered when thirteen hundreds.

101
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,919
Speaker 3: Actually, no, it's been moved around. And remember you know

102
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 3: it has blood on it, number one, number two when

103
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 3: Jerusalem is sacked in a d seventy and this is

104
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:26,360
Speaker 3: extra you know, apocryphal literature. But before the Romans came down,

105
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,160
Speaker 3: many of the Christians left the city. They just went,

106
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 3: something's up and they left the city. So some of

107
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 3: its conjecture exactly you know where it went. But there's

108
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 3: pollen on it, and the pollen shows the trace of

109
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 3: the shroud from Jerusalem. Then it goes up up and

110
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 3: through the Middle East, winds up in Turkey for a while,

111
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 3: then it winds up in France then finally and touring Italy.

112
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,320
Speaker 3: So you know, people make a big deal about well,

113
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 3: it's got to be a forgery, blah blah blah, but

114
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 3: this is this is what's so interesting about it. There's

115
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,599
Speaker 3: never been a skeptic or a scientist that's been able

116
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 3: to reproduce the image at all on any level. And

117
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 3: there's actually and I remember watching this this is years

118
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 3: ago in the History channel, the shroud has three dimensional

119
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 3: information on it, So how is that done? I mean,

120
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 3: if it's a forgery, if it's from a thirteenth century,

121
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 3: then you know how how is that done? And then

122
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,839
Speaker 3: the shroud is a negative image. And going back to

123
00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,279
Speaker 3: Secunda Pia eighteen ninety eight, you remember photography is sort

124
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 3: of in its infancy. You got these old box cameras.

125
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 3: It's not the iPhone where you go snap snapstap hey

126
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 3: look at this. It's not that these are wooden wooden

127
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 3: box cameras, you know, with a with a hood that

128
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,919
Speaker 3: the guy gets under and focuses the lenses and puts

129
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 3: the glass plate in and it takes a while for

130
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 3: the image to come on the glass plate. Pulls that

131
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 3: glass plate out, puts it in the holder. Then he

132
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 3: goes into his dark room and he's mixing the chemicals

133
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 3: and and he's got he's looking at the headshop. That's

134
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 3: the first the first glass plate that he develops, and

135
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,680
Speaker 3: he almost drops the plate. This is no, you know,

136
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 3: nothing apocryphal. This is s couldn't be his own words,

137
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 3: because what came up out of the negative, which should

138
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 3: have been a negative image, was actually a positive image.

139
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 3: So what's on the shroud is a negative image. And

140
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 3: when you when Sakunipia took that photograph, what he saw

141
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 3: was the face of Jesus. He almost dropped the plate.

142
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 3: And who wouldn't, I mean, how startling is that? Yeah,

143
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,600
Speaker 3: And we show all this in the film and we

144
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,119
Speaker 3: you know, really do a deep dive and talking about

145
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 3: Secundipia because he's the first man in two thousand years

146
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 3: to see the face of Jesus. And once once the

147
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 3: photography is there, this opens up the whole study of

148
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 3: the shroud, and and everybody, Jews, Catholics, Protestant, Theologian, skeptics,

149
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 3: everybody starts looking at this artifact and wondering about it.

150
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 2: How bad was the damage dry a fire in fifteen

151
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 2: thirty two.

152
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,680
Speaker 3: The image, the dam the image is laid. George, forgive me.

153
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,600
Speaker 3: The damage was. It was bad, but it didn't destroy

154
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 3: the image at all. And the fire you could actually

155
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 3: see the burn marks that are there. They're still in

156
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 3: the shroud today. The poor sisters of Claire and others

157
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 3: did repair work on the shout after the fifteenth century

158
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 3: fire which skewed the carbon fourteen to eighty. This is why.

159
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 3: And that's a whole conspiracy theory in itself. And Malay

160
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 3: Barry Schwartz talked about that in our Watchers film with

161
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 3: my ex business partner. Richard Challi passed away a number

162
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 3: of years ago, very untimely departure, massive, massive art attack.

163
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 3: Died on the operating table, and that was that was

164
00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,080
Speaker 3: very traumatic. But Barry Schwartz, you know, we're in his

165
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 3: house in Colorado. We're about ten twelve thousand feet up,

166
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,520
Speaker 3: way up in the in the rockies, and Barry Schwartz was,

167
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 3: you know, quite a character. He actually had a picture,

168
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 3: a replica of the face in his bedroom, so you

169
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 3: know he was. He was really into it, really into it.

170
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 2: I had him on one of my Beyond Belief television shows. Yeah,

171
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 2: b the depiction of the shroud and it's huge.

172
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah it's Barry talks about the C fourteen dating and

173
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 3: how there was a million pounds reward given anonymously to

174
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 3: Oxford University for proving the shroud was a fake. And

175
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,439
Speaker 3: what most people don't know, there were protocols that were

176
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,839
Speaker 3: set up that the team that went in to do

177
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,720
Speaker 3: the carbon fourteen dating, he just don't go, yeah, we'd

178
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 3: like to come in and take some you know, sample

179
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 3: from the shroud so we can do some CEA fourteen

180
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 3: to eighty. It doesn't work that way. It goes back

181
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 3: and forth and people are we're going to take it

182
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 3: from here, We're gonna take it from here. The protocols

183
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 3: were set in place, and then the day comes when

184
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 3: the scientists are there, they're gonna get the samples. The

185
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 3: guys in the suit, Steorge, they come walking in, well,

186
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 3: oh wait, stop, don't do anything and they show all

187
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,080
Speaker 3: the all the C fourteen guys out, and then like

188
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,720
Speaker 3: two or three hours later, everybody reassembles and they go,

189
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 3: you're going to take one sample from the bottom of

190
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 3: the shroud, the bottom corner of the shroud, and they

191
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 3: do that and it comes back, Oh, it's a medieval fake.

192
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,080
Speaker 3: Those of us who were studying the shroud though something's

193
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 3: up here, something's wrong. Entered Joe Marino. When Barry Schwartz

194
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 3: passed away, he gave shroud dot com to Joe Marino.

195
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 3: Joe's in the film, and Joe is a monk in

196
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 3: a monastery studying the shroud, and he goes online and

197
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 3: meets this woman, Sue, and they fall in love and

198
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 3: he leaves the monastery and they get married and they

199
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,920
Speaker 3: write this paper on the shroud. And basically the paper

200
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,719
Speaker 3: was stating that because of the sample, they believed there

201
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 3: was a reweave that was done in the fifteenth century

202
00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,839
Speaker 3: which skewed the carbon fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers, who

203
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 3: was on the original Shrouded Tour and Research Project or STIRP,

204
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 3: and he had samples of it. He had samples from

205
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 3: the ray of Samples, which is right next to where

206
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 3: the CEA fourteen dating was done later on. He actually

207
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 3: got leftover samples from the piece of cloth from the

208
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,480
Speaker 3: sea fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers goes down and he's

209
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 3: seeing himself, well, I can disprove this in five minutes,

210
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,200
Speaker 3: and he takes the sample, puts it in the microscope

211
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 3: into his amazement. It's not linen. It's cotton, and it's

212
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 3: been dyed to look like the linen. So they went

213
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 3: with that. They published peer review papers showed that it

214
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 3: was a patch job or rewe wohich skew the carbon

215
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 3: fourteen dating? What's annoying to those of us who have

216
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 3: studied the shroud when you go on I won't name

217
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 3: the name, but most people know it. It begins with

218
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 3: a W. And they still tell the bogus C. Fourteen

219
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 3: dating and declare that the shroud was a medieval forgery.

220
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 3: And once again there's a million dollar a one million

221
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 3: dollar reward for anyone who can duplicate the shroud and

222
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,880
Speaker 3: show how it was made, and nobody can do it.

223
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 3: Nobody can do it, purely remarkable.

224
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,839
Speaker 2: The modern photo of the face is amazing.

225
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is really is startling.

226
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,360
Speaker 2: Very well, what does that tell you about who Jesus

227
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:29,199
Speaker 2: might have been.

228
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,360
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's it's in all of history. He's

229
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 3: the only man that has risen from the dead. I mean,

230
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 3: that's it. There's a lot of people have been raised

231
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 3: from the dead. I get that. But you know, he's

232
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 3: in a tune. The tomb is seal. The Romans are

233
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,360
Speaker 3: guarding this thing, and we believe that there's time and

234
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760
Speaker 3: space stopped as we know it. There was a singularity.

235
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 3: There was a moment of time where it just if

236
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 3: it had gone on any longer, the universe wouldn't exist.

237
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 3: To Dame Isabelle picks It, who's also deceased, is in

238
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,240
Speaker 3: the film, and you know she talks about this because

239
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 3: what we see on the shroud is a frontal image

240
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 3: and then a dorsal image, and they're completely apart from

241
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 3: each other. They're they're not, they're not. There are two

242
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 3: separate distinct images on the shroud, the frontial image and

243
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 3: then the dorsal image. Because he was wrapped in the shroud,

244
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 3: it went over his body and then he was laying

245
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,839
Speaker 3: on it. So when the body dematerializes like and and

246
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 3: who knows how many infinite points of light, there's some

247
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 3: sort of you know, you can call it radiation. There's

248
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,079
Speaker 3: a burst of light. We don't know exactly what it is,

249
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,959
Speaker 3: but that that creates the image on the shroud. It's

250
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,960
Speaker 3: not a burn, by the way, it's not a burn

251
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,839
Speaker 3: because it doesn't it doesn't fluoresce. Barry Schwartz did backlighting

252
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,080
Speaker 3: on the shroud, and you can see the blood and

253
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 3: all this other stuff, but you don't you don't see

254
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 3: the image. So it's it wasn't earned on you know,

255
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,200
Speaker 3: the forensics on this thing, George. I mean for a

256
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,679
Speaker 3: thirteen fourteenth century forger to understand what Billy Ruben is

257
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 3: and the mixture of blood and watar coming out of

258
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 3: the room on the side which is there in the

259
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,360
Speaker 3: shroud to show the nails don't go through the palms.

260
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 3: How many pictures have we seen where if the nails

261
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,840
Speaker 3: are in the palms, they don't go through the palms,

262
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 3: they're at the base of the palm and they come

263
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 3: out the other side of the wrist. That's what pins

264
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 3: him to the cross. So it's like, you know, it's

265
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,800
Speaker 3: it's just like God in a way he was tortured,

266
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 3: though this man was. I mean that there's no coming

267
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 3: down from this thing. And yet those around him. You know,

268
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 3: the crowd. He saved others, save himself. If your God,

269
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 3: come down. They're all waiting for him to come down.

270
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 3: This is this is where it gets really deep, really theologically,

271
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 3: it gets really deep because Mary's there, the two Mary'sry, Magalen,

272
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 3: Mary's mother, John, the Apostle. I mean, all these people

273
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 3: were there. They're waiting, and you know why they're waiting,

274
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 3: because how do you kill God? They know who he is.

275
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no doubt that they know who he is.

276
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 3: They know he's God, he's fully God, he's fully man.

277
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 3: They're waiting for him to come down. That's why the

278
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 3: crowd is yelling, come down.

279
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: You say that was saying.

280
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 2: But he was in a human body, was.

281
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 3: In a human body for the first time ever, first

282
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 3: and last time ever, by the way, And so he's

283
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 3: the prototype of the resurrection of where those of us

284
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 3: who believe in him, that's the prototype. That's where we're

285
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 3: all going.

286
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 2: And the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all

287
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 2: four of them talk about how he was wrapped up,

288
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 2: the body was wrapped up in a linen after the crucifixion.

289
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 2: They all say that.

290
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, and that's what's so interesting. I remember

291
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 3: the Gospels are written, you know, in some cases years

292
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 3: after the actual events. So the fact that it's mentioned

293
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 3: is starling. And there's another artifact, and I think you

294
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 3: know about it, the Sidarium of Oviedo. And the sdarium

295
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 3: of Oviedo is just this cloth and it's just got

296
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 3: blood and effusion. It's just it's a disgusting mess. Why

297
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 3: would anyone keep this? Jewish law stays that you know,

298
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 3: anything with blood from the victim goes into the tomb.

299
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 3: So that's the napkin that the Gospel of John records.

300
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 3: It's folded up and near the body where the body lay.

301
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 3: So the Sidarium of Oviedo has been in Oviedo, Spain

302
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 3: since the seventh century. This is where it gets really interesting.

303
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 3: And you can only do this in modernity with the

304
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 3: science that we have. So they look at the sidarium

305
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 3: and they place the sadarium. They do this all digitally

306
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 3: by the way they take they take, you know, pictures

307
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 3: of a sadarium and put it over the face. Because

308
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 3: when Jesus was taken down from the cross, his was

309
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 3: wrapped in this in this towel, in this cloth called

310
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 3: the Sodarium of Oviedo. And so when you take the

311
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,880
Speaker 3: sidarium and you overlay it over the man on the shroud,

312
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,239
Speaker 3: over the face. Get this, George, there's one hundred and

313
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,880
Speaker 3: twenty points of congruency between the two artifacts. Now, how

314
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 3: is that possible? How? And we know it's been in

315
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,679
Speaker 3: space since the seventh century we know that, I mean,

316
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 3: that's historically document it. So there's a connection. Same blood type,

317
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 3: by the way, ab So it's all there. And what's

318
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 3: interesting about the Sadarium. We show this in the film.

319
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 3: We show the shroud, the Scedarium, and then the Holy Fire.

320
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 3: We think what's called the Holy Fire was the uh,

321
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 3: the instrument if I can use that word, which created

322
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 3: the image. That's conjecture on our part, but that's how

323
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 3: we think it might have been done. It makes sense

324
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 3: because the holy you know, I'm getting ahead of myself here,

325
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 3: but the Holy Fire is something that that's quite amazing.

326
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 3: So when you look at the forensics on the shroud,

327
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 3: you look at the scourge and you look at it's

328
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 3: not a crown of thorn, it's this helmet of thorns,

329
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 3: and that itself would have caused anybody to go in

330
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 3: the shock because you know, you get to stuck them

331
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 3: right in his forehead, in the forehead, and you can

332
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,959
Speaker 3: see all those wounds on the shroud itself. I mean

333
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 3: they're there. It's very graphic.

334
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

335
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

336
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 1: dot com for more