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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: There he is, Hello, how you doing?

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Speaker 3: Hello there?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 3: What's happening?

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Speaker 4: All right?

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Speaker 5: I know you got limited times that I want to

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Speaker 5: start the clock it immediately because we got a trillion question.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: I Quest Love. We get here with Steve Supreme Shugar,

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Speaker 1: Steve in the house.

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Speaker 3: Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Congratulations on Sun Dange.

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Speaker 5: Hello, Reverend now Hello there that's right, Reverend now also

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Speaker 5: the star of Summer Soul.

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Speaker 6: I forgot uh congratulations, but power to the people.

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Speaker 7: The people got the power.

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Speaker 3: Reverend is here.

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, Uh, I'm Bayville.

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Speaker 1: How are here?

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Speaker 3: I'm fantastic. I'm a little off.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Monticolo from North CAFLEC Yeah yes, indeed, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Man, you just called it North Carolina. No one calls it.

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Speaker 1: No one says no. No says New York City either.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: It's like people saying Philip Dell or ill Fresh or

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Speaker 8: Phila whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's just no one says North caclating, No Carolina.

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Speaker 5: Sho No, okay know what uh people, we cannot call

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Speaker 5: it North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: North Caclac. All right, So our yesterday, how shall I say?

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Speaker 5: Our guest today is is cut from a rare cloth,

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Speaker 5: the cloth of justice. He's a gentleman who, at the

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Speaker 5: ripe age of four knew what his calling was. I

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Speaker 5: believe that at the age of four, my parents allowed

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Speaker 5: me to watch Soul Train unchaperoned. So that's give me

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Speaker 5: some comparisons. Anyway, he was practically baptized in the civil

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Speaker 5: rights movement, appointed as leader of the youth movement from

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Speaker 5: the one and only Jesse Jackson's Operation bread Basket.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is literally black Ghostbusters, the person, the

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Speaker 1: person whom you call when it's time.

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Speaker 5: To put wills, when the white folks aught tripping, bringing

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Speaker 5: attention to justice name it. He's there, literally on the

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Speaker 5: front lines. You're always exciting, ever loss of words or

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Speaker 5: the right words. Always there on the front lines. Ladies

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Speaker 5: and gentlemen, Welcome to questlev Supreme, the one and only

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Speaker 5: Reverend Al Sharpton.

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Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, Yes are you today? How are you today?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good, I'm doing very well. And congratulations on

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Speaker 3: some soul. You really a masterpiece on now.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 5: But I got to ask you and I'm a self

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Speaker 5: admitted former reluctant leader.

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Speaker 1: How how hard is.

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Speaker 5: It to still want to lead and be on the

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Speaker 5: front lines and always have the answers because there's many

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Speaker 5: a day where I mean, my version of leading is

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Speaker 5: more like make it, yeah, make it a music or

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Speaker 5: having a lunch with somebody, but you know, not not

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Speaker 5: to your level, but still like, once you decide that

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Speaker 5: that's the path that your life is on, you gotta

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Speaker 5: see it through. And what what makes you get out

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Speaker 5: of bed every morning to fulfill this role?

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Speaker 3: I think that I put it this way. Michael Brown,

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Speaker 3: who was killed by police, and Triggerson's mother spoke one

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Speaker 3: night and she said something that clicked with me. She

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Speaker 3: said that Mark Twain, and you gotta remember when the

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Speaker 3: middle of this whole battle and Ferguson and for the

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Speaker 3: mother of a victim to quote Mark Twain was like,

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Speaker 3: what what is she getting ready to do? And she said,

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Speaker 3: Mark Twain said something that she never forgot. She said,

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Speaker 3: the two most important moments in your life is the

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Speaker 3: moment you're born and the moment you find out why

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Speaker 3: you were born. And that's what clicks with me. I

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Speaker 3: believe I was born to do what I do. I've

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Speaker 3: been doing it since I was four. Like you said,

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Speaker 3: I started preaching as a kid an acost the church.

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Speaker 3: I became Jesse and Bill Jones you directed at twelve,

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Speaker 3: so I don't know nothing else. And even as I

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Speaker 3: got older and got around James Brown and others in entertainment,

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Speaker 3: I kept going back to activism. James Brown would saying

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Speaker 3: he can't make a living doing that, He'll be back

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Speaker 3: out here, and I wouldn't go back because that's where

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Speaker 3: my comfort zone was. And as you have developed into

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Speaker 3: a leader, you can drop the reluctant you do it

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Speaker 3: questioning yourself. You do it because you can't do anything

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Speaker 3: else because that has become you, and people look for

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Speaker 3: you to do that. And what you are ambiguous about.

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Speaker 3: That ambiguity is what attracts people because they know you

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Speaker 3: don't have an agenda. You're doing it from your heart.

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Speaker 4: Wow, okay, I gotta take that.

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Speaker 5: So there's never a time where you feel like you

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Speaker 5: know where you're in a situation and you don't know

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Speaker 5: the right words to say, or Okay, there's a moment,

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Speaker 5: let me back up. So there's a there's a moment

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Speaker 5: that President Obama told me about in which he knew

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Speaker 5: that he was going to do that the funeral service

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Speaker 5: for in South Carolina. Yeah, in Charleston, he knew he

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Speaker 5: was going to do that service. And with a good

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Speaker 5: eight day lead, he knew that, you know.

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Speaker 1: He had the He he crafted the perfect.

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Speaker 5: Speech that he felt that was going to fit the tone,

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Speaker 5: and he said, like three minutes into that speech, he

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Speaker 5: knew that wasn't the tone, and he didn't know what

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Speaker 5: to do, and he just like took a breath and

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Speaker 5: something said just start singing amazing grace. And it was

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Speaker 5: a risk for him, but he did it and it

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Speaker 5: opened the people up. So I'm just saying, like in leading,

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Speaker 5: some oftentimes you have to think on your feet in

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Speaker 5: real time.

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Speaker 1: How does that come to you?

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Speaker 5: I think I come from a place where, like we

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Speaker 5: now have to watch our words, and I don't want

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Speaker 5: to get canceled.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to say the wrong thing.

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Speaker 5: So you know, often get caught in my head and

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Speaker 5: leading because you don't want to say the wrong thing

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Speaker 5: because of the repercussions.

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Speaker 1: But how do you get over that?

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Speaker 3: I think you go with the flow and the energy

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Speaker 3: and no matter how much you plan, and all of

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Speaker 3: us are worried about if I say this wrong, Am

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Speaker 3: I gonna hurt the cause? Am I gonna hurt the

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Speaker 3: family I'm representing them, I gonna hurt the organization. But

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Speaker 3: then you get in an energy and you just flow.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you an example, and or President Obama Trola

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Speaker 3: the same serve by amazing grace. I was in the

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Speaker 3: audience that they worked, and I didn't know that he

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Speaker 3: didn't plan it. But when I walked on the pulpit

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Speaker 3: to preach George Floyd's funeral, I had no plans of

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Speaker 3: doing that whole thing of get your knee off our neck.

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Speaker 3: It just came as I was speaking, and I just

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Speaker 3: went with it, and it worked, and I just kept

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Speaker 3: doing it. Then, and I think that you've got to

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Speaker 3: be disciplined enough to put some borders on yourself in

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Speaker 3: your own mind, but then free enough to say, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna pressed as far as I can inside these borders

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Speaker 3: and let it flow. The advantage I had starting as

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Speaker 3: a boy preacher. The disadvantage is before I could read

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Speaker 3: and write well, I was preaching. The advantage is I

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Speaker 3: never learn how to use a manuscript, so I can't

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Speaker 3: speak from a manuscript. That's why when I started my

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Speaker 3: MSNBC show, hardest thing in the world for me was

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Speaker 3: to speak with a telepromt because I never read a sermon.

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Speaker 3: So I'm like, I'm messing up that life. Good old Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I never I never used a manuscript until I started

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Speaker 3: on MSNBC. I was fifty seven years old learning how

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Speaker 3: to speak it and read at the same time.

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Speaker 7: So you're saying you're a freestyler. You saying you freestyle

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Speaker 7: for I.

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Speaker 3: Was freestyling before y'all call it freestyle.

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Speaker 8: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was freestyling when we were still saying North Kacilaki.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember what you spoke about when you were four?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What was your parents' reaction to this?

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Speaker 5: Like or whoever was in charge of you speaking, how

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Speaker 5: do they know that this four year old had the

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Speaker 5: the gumption of the right words to lead.

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Speaker 3: We had in church what they call the Junior usher Boy.

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Speaker 3: That's the kids that would hand out their little programs

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Speaker 3: and help see people. It was a cute little thing

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Speaker 3: to keep kids involved. Once a year they'd have the

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Speaker 3: Junior Usherboard anniversary. So the adult supervisor said, what do

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Speaker 3: y'all want to do at the anniversary? And it was

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Speaker 3: about ten of us. One of them was a guy

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Speaker 3: who ended up being a pretty big singer, Ronnie Dyson.

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Speaker 3: He was about yeah. Ronnie Dyson had a quarius in hair.

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Speaker 3: He was a kid with me in Washington Temple Church

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Speaker 3: in Brooklyn. He said that he wanted read a poem.

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Speaker 3: My sister wanted to sing. I said, I want to preach,

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Speaker 3: so everybody laughed. The doll Avis said let him preach.

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Speaker 3: Maybe God's gonna use him because this is a Pentecostal church.

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Speaker 3: And my mother said, I prayed that God would use

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Speaker 3: my son. My father said, Yo, this is crazy. But

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Speaker 3: they let me preach, and I preached the Anni versions about

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Speaker 3: nine hundred people. That they put me on a box

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Speaker 3: because the couldn't see me up on the roster, and

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Speaker 3: I preached from Saint John's fourteenth chapter, Let not Your

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Speaker 3: Heart Be Trouble. And I've been preaching ever since. By

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Speaker 3: the time I was seven, I was doing the Youth

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Speaker 3: Days and other churches. By the time I was nine,

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Speaker 3: they did the World's Fan in New York and they

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Speaker 3: put me up to preach before Maya Jackson. That's why

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Speaker 3: I loved a Soul Somersa, because I ended up doing

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Speaker 3: two or three cities with Maya and the rest was history.

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Speaker 3: That's how Jesse them heard of me. I was called

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Speaker 3: a wonder boy preaching.

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Speaker 4: Wow, okay, So.

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Speaker 7: How would you figure out what your sermons was going

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Speaker 7: to be?

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Speaker 3: I would listen to older ministers because I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Pentecostal church. We was in church all the time,

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Speaker 3: and I would in many ways just preach back what

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Speaker 3: I heard out of memory, and I could put the

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Speaker 3: sermons together in my head.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Do you do you have any of like the recordings

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Speaker 5: of your your sermons as a kid?

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Speaker 1: Do you have you?

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Speaker 3: I have one when I was nine. When I was nine,

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Speaker 3: they did a forty five record me preaching, and this

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Speaker 3: guy that was a radio guy at the time, Doc Wheeler,

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Speaker 3: made a record. I have that, a little forty five

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Speaker 3: record of me and I was doing more, you know,

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Speaker 3: going back to what I heard other preachers did. And

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Speaker 3: then you go through the holler in the shout, and

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Speaker 3: because you was cute, you got away with it. When

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Speaker 3: you got older you had to say something. You can

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Speaker 3: get away with a lot when you're old.

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Speaker 5: Accident, can you okay, can you explain to me? I

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Speaker 5: know that you're a Pentecostal preacher. But what are the

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Speaker 5: exact what are the difference between Baptist or you know,

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Speaker 5: the various because I just thought like Southern preaching was

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Speaker 5: one thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I was raised by Southern parents, though I

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Speaker 3: was born raised in Brooklyn, Kojak, which I grew up

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Speaker 3: until I was like fourteen. Then I wont Baptists. Kojak

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Speaker 3: was more grassroots, h what James would call gut bucket.

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Speaker 3: We would do the singing in the shout and then

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Speaker 3: hallelujah dance. Baptists was a little more refined, and Methodists

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Speaker 3: was even more refined. It's a matter of style. It

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Speaker 3: is a matter of music. Like I remember when in

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Speaker 3: some big Baptist churches when I was growing up, you

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have drums in the church, but you wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: choirs that would sing emotional songs. So when I would

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Speaker 3: go to Baptist churches and Methodist church, they be singing anthems.

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Speaker 3: We didn't do that. All of our stuff was Shirley

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Speaker 3: Caesar kind of singing. And then you got more refined

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Speaker 3: with the Baptists, so it's more cultural and class. Grassroots

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Speaker 3: people were more to Pentecostals and as I grew up

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Speaker 3: and then got in the civil rights movementhen I was twelve.

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Speaker 3: They were all Baptists, and then I later became I

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Speaker 3: would re baptized the Baptist and they were a little

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Speaker 3: more learned. We were all spirit and that's probably why

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Speaker 3: I gravitated to sol to James, because James was a

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Speaker 3: secular version of the Holy Rolla. I mean, well Jans

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Speaker 3: would do wasn't much different than we're doing the choir

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Speaker 3: in the Holiness Church.

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Speaker 2: Okay, where are your parents from? You said they were

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Speaker 2: from the South.

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Speaker 1: I was worried.

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Speaker 3: My mother mother's from Dothan, Alabama. She passed. My father

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Speaker 3: was from you follow Alabama. Neither one of them was

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Speaker 3: on the map.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Wait, what's it Isama?

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Speaker 3: You follow? You follow flowed? I love that name.

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Speaker 5: You follow, You follow follow Alabama?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay.

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Speaker 5: As a musician, I do want to know, like right now,

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Speaker 5: as a record collector, I'm kind of on my my

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Speaker 5: my seventies gospel kick right now, and I'm noticing that

255
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Speaker 5: it's very hard to find rare to find like gospel

256
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Speaker 5: records that have like a certain groove to it or

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Speaker 5: a certain soul to it. And I realized that a

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Speaker 5: lot of it is that, you know, they thought it

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Speaker 5: was sinful or whatever, but you know, knowing that you're

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Speaker 5: cut from the cloth of the James Brown shadow if

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Speaker 5: you will, How I mean, how hard was it for

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Speaker 5: kind of secular sounding music to finally break through to

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Speaker 5: the Black church where it wasn't considered simple or that

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Speaker 5: sort of thing. Because even when I was drumming in church,

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Speaker 5: like if I started playing too good, I would get

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Speaker 5: looks from like the elders, like you're playing that rap music.

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Speaker 5: I know that you're playing run DMC right now, like

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Speaker 5: that sort of thing, Like right, how.

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Speaker 3: It was hot? I remember that in the early days

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Speaker 3: of the sixties when I was still like eight or

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Speaker 3: nine and Sam Cook left the church because Sam Cook

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Speaker 3: started with a gospel group and he left and started

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Speaker 3: singing secular. They said, oh, he's backslid, He's going to hell.

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Speaker 3: And Lil Richard would go in and out, and after

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Speaker 3: a while people would be in and out. Ronnie was

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Speaker 3: in and out Ronnie Dyson, And after a while people

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Speaker 3: started getting comfortable that it was all right. It became

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Speaker 3: all right because those was that was kids got older

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Speaker 3: and we didn't see the difference but it was a

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Speaker 3: lot of tension. You're right. If I would go to

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Speaker 3: a political rally when I was twelve, I had backslid.

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Speaker 3: You in the world. You were supposed to deal with

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Speaker 3: going to heaven, nothing on earth. So it was the

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Speaker 3: same in the music, it was same in our social life.

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Speaker 3: But this was the era where Doctor King got killed.

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Speaker 3: It was a Black Power era. I was still thirteen

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Speaker 3: years old and I wanted to be with my contemporaries,

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Speaker 3: and we were activists, and many of them didn't stay

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Speaker 3: in activism like I did. But that was the time

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Speaker 3: where everybody was a member of something. You were either

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Speaker 3: with us, with Doctor King, or you were with the Panthers,

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Speaker 3: which were more militant, or you joined the Nation that's alon.

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Speaker 3: But everybody in New York was something, and your whole

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Speaker 3: life was around what you were a member of. What

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Speaker 3: girls you dated was based on what silo you were

296
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Speaker 3: in and uh and the church became had to make

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Speaker 3: adjustments to that because people started changing. When I was

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Speaker 3: first starting the Pentecostal Church, it was a sin for

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Speaker 3: women to wear lipstick or pants. And I remember we

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Speaker 3: went to Detroit. Yeah, I remember we went to Detroit

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Speaker 3: to speak of a youth convention, and I saw my

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Speaker 3: bishop's wife come out of the motel with some slacks on,

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Speaker 3: and I called my mother collecting and said, Madam Washington's

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Speaker 3: going to hell, she's wearing pants. My brother got mad

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Speaker 3: at me for calling her collect.

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Speaker 5: Wow man, Okay, So as of this recording, we're a

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Speaker 5: few days ahead of the passing of of the infamous

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Speaker 5: uh Danny Ray. James Brown's now see his his his his, uh,

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Speaker 5: I guess you could say his, uh, his mouthpiece his

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Speaker 5: Paul Revere, can you talk? When's the when's the first

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Speaker 5: time you met James Brown?

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Speaker 1: And what was that like?

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Speaker 3: All right? When we when we were growing up? When

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Speaker 3: I started, uh growing up. I was born in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 3: Like I said, my father had a successful business and

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Speaker 3: he bought a house in Hollis, Queen's. At that time,

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Speaker 3: we thought Queen's Hollis was like the suburbs. And uh,

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Speaker 3: James Brown had a big match in Saint Albans, and

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Speaker 3: all the kids in the neighborhood gold and stand outside

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Speaker 3: the gate on to see James Brown. So he was

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Speaker 3: my hero. My father did his hair like James Brown,

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Speaker 3: and but I never met him. So fast forward, I'm

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Speaker 3: now known as a teenage preacher. And I had a

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Speaker 3: youth movement that you mentioned, Questlove, and a kid came

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Speaker 3: and joined the youth movement the same age as me,

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Speaker 3: and he said he was from the South. He came

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Speaker 3: to New York. He wanted to go to Columbia to

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Speaker 3: go to law school, and he joined my youth group.

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Speaker 3: His name was Teddy. He ended up being James Brown Slunt.

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Speaker 3: And about seven months after he was in our youth

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Speaker 3: group trying to get in law school, he got killed

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Speaker 3: in a car accident in Albany. He was driving with

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Speaker 3: some friends and Teddy got killed. James was having problems

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Speaker 3: then because he had endulged. This is seventy three. I'm

335
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Speaker 3: eighteen now, and he had endorsed a year before Richard

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Speaker 3: Nixon for president, and a lot of the brothers was

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Speaker 3: mad at him for going with Nixon. He was a

338
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Speaker 3: seller and all, and they picking at him when he

339
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Speaker 3: was at the Apollo in seventy two when Teddy got hill.

340
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Speaker 3: The next year, he came to New York about Teddy,

341
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Speaker 3: and the lead disc jockey in New York at that

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Speaker 3: time was Hank Span on WWRL AM. This before FM

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Speaker 3: got big, before Bright and Hank Span told him, he said,

344
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Speaker 3: if you want to do something in memory of your son,

345
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Speaker 3: your son joined this little youth group with this young preacher,

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Speaker 3: you should do something for them, and nobody will picket

347
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Speaker 3: you because everybody likes this little kid running around being

348
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Speaker 3: a civil rights guy. And they set up for me

349
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Speaker 3: to meet James Brown at his office on seventeen hundred Broadway,

350
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Speaker 3: and I went in. I'm meeting God. That's why I

351
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Speaker 3: told you the whole background of I stand at his

352
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Speaker 3: gate and James Brown looked at me, and he looked

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Speaker 3: me up and down, and he started talking and you

354
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Speaker 3: had no idea what he was talking about. And he

355
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Speaker 3: was looking at me, well, you know, if you do

356
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Speaker 3: what I'm to do, I'm gonna do it whatever and

357
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Speaker 3: all of that, and finally he shook my hand, which

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00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 3: was dismissing me. So when we got outside, I told her,

359
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Speaker 3: you know you with me, I think he said he's

360
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Speaker 3: gonna do the show. So he told me what to do,

361
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 3: how to pass out the flyers, how to promote. Hankspan

362
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Speaker 3: pumped it up, and we did it at the Rko

363
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Speaker 3: Alby Theater downtown Brooklyn, which is now the Alby Square mall.

364
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Speaker 3: But it used to be a theater there and they

365
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Speaker 3: had about two thousand seats and two shows was going

366
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Speaker 3: to sell out four thousand seats. Now, I didn't know

367
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Speaker 3: they had picked to James Brown, and I didn't know

368
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Speaker 3: that they were worried about what was gonna happen. I

369
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 3: went out there and did everything he said. And he

370
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Speaker 3: pulls up that night in seventy three in the limousine

371
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Speaker 3: and he jumps out the limousine and the driveway behind

372
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Speaker 3: the backstage and he looks at his manager, mister Bobbitt.

373
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Speaker 3: Mister Bobbitt, how they do Mister Bobba said, they sold

374
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Speaker 3: every ticket out and there's about five hundred people outside.

375
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Speaker 3: He said what he said? Yeah, and he told me

376
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Speaker 3: you come with me, son, And I walked behind James

377
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Speaker 3: Brown in the building and he went and combed his

378
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Speaker 3: hair out, and he's talking and again I don't know

379
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Speaker 3: what he's saying. And he gets ready to go on stage.

380
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Speaker 3: Danny raised introducing him the band that hit. People are screaming,

381
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Speaker 3: and he walks on the stage in the wings at

382
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Speaker 3: my show. Now, mind you'm eighteen years old? Was Miles Davis.

383
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Speaker 3: And Miles had come to see James perform and I'm

384
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Speaker 3: standing there between James Brown and Miles Davis and I

385
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Speaker 3: thought I had died and went them. In the middle

386
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Speaker 3: of the show, James stopped the music. I think he

387
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 3: had done trying me or something that was slow, and

388
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Speaker 3: he stopped and told the band hut it and they

389
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 3: stopped and he called me out. He said, I want

390
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Speaker 3: to bring out this young man who made the night happen.

391
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Speaker 3: His youth movement, y'all help. My son was a part

392
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Speaker 3: and I want him to lead us in prayer memory

393
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Speaker 3: of my son. So I'm like nervous. I'm used to

394
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Speaker 3: every report, but I've never been on a show business stage.

395
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Speaker 3: I walk out to the mic and I look at

396
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Speaker 3: him and he said, pray, go on and pray. You

397
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 3: know how to pray, don't you. I started freak and uh.

398
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Speaker 3: And when I came off, Uh. James Brown sent for

399
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Speaker 3: me in his dressing room after the show, and he

400
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 3: was sitting on the hair drive because he would always

401
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 3: have this happen till he died. After every show, he

402
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 3: rolled his hair back up and uh, and I uh

403
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: start talking to him and I'm trying to, you know,

404
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: communicate with him, and he's like the hair drives making

405
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 3: all his noise. He kept ha, what do you say?

406
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Speaker 6: Ha?

407
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 3: And he finally said to me, I'll be back in

408
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Speaker 3: New York in two or three weeks. I'm gonna play

409
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,479
Speaker 3: in your career. And I met him in his office

410
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 3: and he said, uh, I'm take you with me to California.

411
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 3: I said to California. He said yeah, and we went

412
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Speaker 3: to California. He took me with him to do Soul

413
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: Train and he said to Don Connius, mister Caneis, He said,

414
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Speaker 3: I want you to meet this young man. He's a teenager.

415
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 3: I want him to give me an award on Soul Train.

416
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 3: By then he had the big payback out and uh

417
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: and uh he said. Don Coneia said, we don't do

418
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 3: awards on this show. And he said this Canais, do

419
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: you know how to sing payback? And uncle? He said, no,

420
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 3: you do that here? Were you gonna singing unless you

421
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 3: let this kid give me this award?

422
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: And I went on.

423
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: And I went on. Sol Tray gave j Brown this award.

424
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 3: I was the biggest guy Brooklyn did. Because now all

425
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: the girls that wouldn't give me a date because who

426
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 3: wanted to day of preaching, right, wanted to date me

427
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: because I was on sol trade with James Brown, and

428
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: I became in many ways like Teddy because I was

429
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: the same age, ambitious. I reminded him a son he

430
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: lost and he became the father that I didn't have

431
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: because my father left us when I was about twelve,

432
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: and we're back, moved back to Brooklyn, We're in the projects,

433
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: mother on welfare, and James started taking me around the

434
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: world and he kept saying, I want you to stay

435
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 3: in the ministry. I promise your mother you would leave

436
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 3: the church. So he'd send me home for me to preach,

437
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: do my youth work, send back for me, and he

438
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: became like a father.

439
00:23:54,080 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: Figured to me, Wow, wow, that's an incredible story. And

440
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: I would know how you got on now. I get it.

441
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: I get it now.

442
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 6: So when did I'm just curious since I know you

443
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 6: guys had the father relationship, but you politically you were

444
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 6: growing and you were growing further and further apart. So

445
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 6: did you just how did that work? Did y'all have conversation?

446
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 6: Did you not feel right?

447
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: We would argue James Brown was a very conservative guy

448
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 3: and to the right of the right and from Gusta Georgia.

449
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: He was a southern conservative guy and and he didn't

450
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 3: believe or not. But he used to always say to me,

451
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're doing all that marching. Jane

452
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: Brown always had one or two guns with him well,

453
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 3: and he was a regular country guy like that. But

454
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 3: we would debate and argue. But he had just like

455
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 3: him for me. So he would always explain to his guys,

456
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: Reverend is more militant, but that's my son. And he

457
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 3: would take me in these rooms. And as I got known,

458
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: he would tell people, y'all got to accept Rev. I'm

459
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: talking about lot of the whites, because he take me

460
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: the crossover shows. I'll never forget. Later in his life,

461
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 3: they gave him the Kennedy Center Award, and he had

462
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 3: made them have me write the line of notes in

463
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 3: the program. And when I got there that night to

464
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: the Kennedy Center, it was George Bush was president. He

465
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: was in you know the President's whatever they call that

466
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 3: where you sit up in the booth, and next to

467
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: him the box they call it the presidential box. Next

468
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: to him was Coldon Powell, and then there was the guests,

469
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 3: and James Brown said, give Reverend the box. So these

470
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: people all never said mister Brown. He being honored. Carolvin

471
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: let him. They always do five, said mister Brown. Reverend

472
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: Shoptons running for president under Democrats against mister Bush. We

473
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: can't do that, he says, you gonna do it tonight.

474
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: And I'm sitting up there in the box now against Bush,

475
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: and Bush is two or three people down. So when

476
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: the Nimate, we all go in this little VIP area.

477
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: Only the president could go and honor Reeds and their guests.

478
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 3: And I come in. And this is how James Brown was.

479
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: James Brown stood there, looked at me. President staid over there,

480
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 3: mister Bush, and George Bush comes over. He says, mister Brown,

481
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 3: unted the happy with us tonight. He says, look here,

482
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: I know you in the revend got you all differences,

483
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: but his music tonight differences. I'm calling this James Brown.

484
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: None of that bad ja James Brown. He gonna tell

485
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: the president what you gonna do. And George Bush and

486
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 3: I later in life would laugh about that. Every time

487
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: I see George Bush, he says, did you ever tell

488
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: anybody about James Brown and me and you at the

489
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: at the Kennedy shen.

490
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: Wow?

491
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 5: Wait, can I ask Okay, so James Brown won't be

492
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 5: the first or the last. I mean, I guess the

493
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 5: paraphrase term is the Rags to Richard's story that has

494
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 5: pro probably more conservative leanings even though you know they

495
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 5: say they're other people, but has more conservative leanings and.

496
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 7: He just said it out loud.

497
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the thing is is that what I noticed

498
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: about this.

499
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 5: Past election, we just had the amount of rappers that

500
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 5: were kind of going down the same path this well,

501
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 5: this thing of like pull yourself up by the bootstraps

502
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 5: and you know, if I do it, you can do it.

503
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: What do you think is the mindset that produces that?

504
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 5: I guess from him it's like I worked hard to

505
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 5: get here and everyone should follow my path.

506
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: Or is that like where he was coming from.

507
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: I think that it's some of that. A lot of

508
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: it is that that I work hard, you can work hard.

509
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: And some of that is that they just were afraid

510
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: it would interfere where they were trying to go. But

511
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 3: the problem that they had with Jane is as conservative,

512
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 3: as conservative as he was politically, he had this real

513
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 3: streak of black in him and he refused his music

514
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: kept him black, and he wouldn't apologize for blackness, and

515
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: I think that was the difference, because I would go

516
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: in places and they would tell him. I was with

517
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: him one night he wanted to do the Tonight show

518
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: and they want to do the soundcheck, and he did

519
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 3: the sound check like he was at the Apollo, and

520
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: the guy told him said, mister Brown, you're gonna have

521
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 3: to water it down our kind of audiences a little,

522
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: you know, kind of tell him that you know they

523
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: wouldn't it's too hard hitting. And I'll never get And

524
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: this is why I love James Brown, despite his politics,

525
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: and I loved him because he was like a father.

526
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: He looked at the guy he said, if you want

527
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: to Sammy Davis, you should have booked him. He said,

528
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 3: you're gonna get James Brown knight.

529
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: And that's what I love it.

530
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: And that's really, in many ways what he would put

531
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: in me. He said, I want you to be your

532
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: own style. He said, whatever you do. We used to

533
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: ride around he had about thirty two thirty three cars.

534
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: That is a state. We'd always be riding around one

535
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: of his I think one of the reason he liked me.

536
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 3: He had a kids, but a lot of his kids

537
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: didn't hang around him. His daughters were still very young,

538
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: and I used to want to hear all the stories

539
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: and all advice because he talked incessantly. And his other

540
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: sons that were, you know, younger than Teddy, but my

541
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 3: almost my age. Then they wanted to get away. They

542
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: didn't want their elections. I wanted all of it. And

543
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: we just ride around in the dark because there wasn't

544
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: no street lights in the woods where James Browns the

545
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: state is, and he would be talking to me. I

546
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: remember he stopped one night and he said to me,

547
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: I wasn't on more than twenty one twenty two days,

548
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 3: he said, reverend, because everybody was surname. He believed in

549
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: that respect. Thing he said, Reverend, I want you to

550
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: promise me one thing. I said, what's that? He said,

551
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: promise me you'll never be one of the boys. He said.

552
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: I know you're a preacher, I know your civil rights,

553
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 3: but don't be like none of them. Be different, he said,

554
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: O always am different. When I do my first two

555
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: chords of a song, they know that's James Brown. Don't

556
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: nobody sound like me. And he pulled up in a

557
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: parking lot next to Daddy Grace's church in Augusta, Georgian

558
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: and we just sat there and I'm like, what are

559
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: we doing here? And after about a minute or two,

560
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: he said, you hear that? I said, here, what he

561
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: said that? I said, I don't hear nothing, but they

562
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: having church inside. He said, listen to that drum and

563
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 3: I listened and I said, yeah, I hear. He says,

564
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: that's where I learned the sound. They're on the one,

565
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: he said. I'm on a one three beat. Everybody else

566
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: is on the two fourth beat. Learn how to be

567
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 3: on the one. Set your own beat, he said. And

568
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 3: if you set your own beat, people always remember you.

569
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: And you do your own style. And when I started

570
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: a lot of activism in your face kind of activism,

571
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: and people you say, oh, he was too bold. Why

572
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: am I marching in Vincent Hurst? Why am I doing this?

573
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: You can put out a press release and make a statement.

574
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: I got it from Ain't Brown. I developed my own style.

575
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: I took a lot of flat, but my father figure

576
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 3: told me I had to be different in bold, and

577
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: I did that. And he used to laugh, saying, Rev

578
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: just doing the James Brown and civil rights rest of them.

579
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: Buscher don't know, he said, he's doing the raw stuff.

580
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: He's wraw he's wraw. I remember we were in his office.

581
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: I tell you this story. He's in his office one

582
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: day in nineteen eighty two and I had to come

583
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: down to visit him, and he said, I hear y'all

584
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: watching to try to get doctor King a birthday holiday.

585
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: I said, well, I said, you tight with the Republicans.

586
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: Why don't you see if you can help us out.

587
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: He said, I can go to President whatever I want.

588
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: And he hit us in the car and secondary picking

589
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: it up. Get the White House on the Phones's about

590
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 3: even o'clock of the ball And I said to myself,

591
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: yeah right, So we going through the day, went out,

592
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 3: got something to eat, come back about four o'clock. She's

593
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: the interconse that the White House is on the phone.

594
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: Mister Brown, I looked at him. I was a little

595
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: shot man in press. He picks up the phone and uh,

596
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: he talks to them. Then he hangs up the phone

597
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: and he looks at me. He says, January fifteen is

598
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: doctor King's birthday. He invited me up. Didn't get a holiday,

599
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: didn't get a holiday, but they agreed to meet with

600
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: him that day. So I told him they just using

601
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 3: you as a show piece. He said, you're right, he said,

602
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: and you're going with me. So I went back to

603
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: New York January fourteenth. He flew me to Augusta to

604
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: fly back to Washington. I kept saying, I can meet

605
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: you in Washington.

606
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ride over Washington.

607
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: No, you got to fly with me. So we in

608
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: Delta Airlines because his private plane was in the shop,

609
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: and were sitting in the.

610
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: Wait he playing any new alternator.

611
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: Playing in the shot. He played in the shot, So

612
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: were sitting in first class. His bodyguards, coach were sitting there,

613
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: and he looks at me. When the plane levels up,

614
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: he said, reverend. I said, yes, sir. He said, I

615
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: want you to do me a favor. I said, what's that?

616
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: He said? When we land, were going by Bobby Bennett's place.

617
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: Bobby Bennett was one of the famous Flames which stopped singing,

618
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: but they were still cool. And I said, oh, mister

619
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: Bennet okay, because I met him a couple of times

620
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: he come out to summer the show. He said, mister Bennett,

621
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: I want him to he's gonna tighten up my hair.

622
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: I want him to do your hair like mine. I said,

623
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: you want him do what? He said? I want him

624
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 3: to do your hair like mine. And I said, all right, again,

625
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: this is my father. My father never I ain't emulate nothing.

626
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: So I like the abandoned son that found a man

627
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: that really felt I was worthy of being like him.

628
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: It was a real self identity thing. Bobby Bennett did

629
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: my hair and became you know. I started wearing the

630
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 3: comp and we went met with Ronald Reagan. When we

631
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: came back uh from the White House, got in the

632
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 3: plane headed back to gusta plane that was off again.

633
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: He's I got one more favor, Reverend. I said, what's that?

634
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: He said, I want you to wear your hair like

635
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: that as long as I'm alive. And that's where I

636
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 3: got the hairstyle from. And I'll never forget. Years later,

637
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: when he got in trouble when he was older and

638
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: went to jail, he would call me from the jail

639
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: about three times a week. And you have to call

640
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: collect because he's prisoner. And he they said, collect call

641
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 3: from the South Carolina Correction Facility, which you're accepting. I'm

642
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: halfway not being able to play bills, but I'd have

643
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: to take his call. I take the call. He would

644
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 3: never ask me how my kids work. By then I

645
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: had two daughters.

646
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: Nothing.

647
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: First question was Reverend, how's your hair? Because he was

648
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: checking to see if I let with it? And she

649
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 3: slept with it. And that's where they asked out from.

650
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 3: And I took a lot of flat from a lot

651
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 3: of Afro centric brothers.

652
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 6: You sacrificed for us, but you sacrificed for us like

653
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 6: it wouldn't.

654
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 3: Be a father thing had a father in my life,

655
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: like my father.

656
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 7: So how you I just ask you, Rev. Since we're

657
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 7: on the hair. You've had this hairstyle for such.

658
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 6: A long time.

659
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, how you here?

660
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 3: And now?

661
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: Yes?

662
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 7: Because it's still beautiful now.

663
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, those that know, don't say. Those that say don't know.

664
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 7: Not even the grease.

665
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 9: You ain't even gonna talk the grease decks on it,

666
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 9: red words.

667
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 6: I mean, your edges are beautiful. So whatever it is,

668
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 6: what it is, down with a two bresh real it.

669
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: That's that's a credible, right, Rev.

670
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 5: I need to know. I think it's easier now because

671
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 5: of the social media and the Internet. Okay, but pre Internet,

672
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 5: let's say, uh before nineteen ninety seven. I mean, even

673
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 5: though the Internet was out there, but it wasn't as viral.

674
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 5: If one needs to contact you for assistance or your presence.

675
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 5: How does one do that?

676
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 4: And what is the.

677
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 5: Thought process and the sort of decision making that you

678
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 5: go through before you decide yes, I'm going to take

679
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 5: this on because I can imagine that. Actually, let me

680
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 5: start with how many calls do you get every day

681
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 5: on an average to take up a cause?

682
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 3: Well, before ninety seven, I always, since ninety one, had

683
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: an office, and I got that from James. James, you

684
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: said you're not in business if you don't have office.

685
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: I always had a stay up, started with two or three.

686
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: Now we got offices in seven cities, regional offices, and

687
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: the no government money. We raise our money and we

688
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 3: have crisis departments that vet out cases. Usually a lawyer

689
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 3: will call me because they want me to help publicize

690
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: it like it started it with Vernon Mason would call

691
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: me and say, sudden happened, kid got killed, Howard Beach.

692
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: We vetted it. They give us information, and I would

693
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: go and say, we're gonna do a march. We're going

694
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: out in the neighborhood. Or now Ben Crump calls me

695
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: like he called me when George Flutt family wanted to

696
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: reach me. And you know that's one of the things.

697
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 3: That was always crazy to me. They would always say

698
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: our shop that just wants publicity. That's why people called

699
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 3: me is they wanted me to blow it up. Nobody

700
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 3: called me to keep a secret. So we would we

701
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: would come in and we would decide that we thought

702
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: it was legitimate, and we'd rally people around it, because

703
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: if you don't create that kind of drama, you will

704
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 3: never create the media. Because it wasn't social media. So

705
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: other people said, it's a Shane nineteen eighty six, they

706
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 3: killed this boy Michael Griffins and Howard Beach because he

707
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 3: was black and nobody knew what to do. I said, well,

708
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 3: let's go out there. And they were saying it might

709
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 3: have been a mugget, it might have been a love triangle.

710
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 3: I said, if we march, everybody know what it is.

711
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 3: What do you mean March? I said, we got to

712
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 3: go out there and dramatize, So I called him March.

713
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 3: We went out there. As we start marching down the street,

714
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: maybe about five hundred of us, there must have been

715
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 3: seven eight hundred white stuff coming out calling us the

716
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: N words, throwing bananas and everything at us. And I said,

717
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: now everybody understand, it's a race thing because you bring

718
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: it out. I knew if you go in certain sections

719
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: Benson nurse Lady with you said Hawkins, they were gonna

720
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: make the case because they gonna react, and that became

721
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: on television. You had to remember I didn't come out

722
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 3: of Georgia like doctor King or out of Chicago with Jesse.

723
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: How come out of New York? You competing with Times Square,

724
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: Statue of Liberty, Empire, statement Wall Street. New York is

725
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: used to everything. So you got to be dramatic to

726
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: get attention on your cause. So people say I was

727
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: flamboyant and vodacious. You had to be in New York.

728
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 3: You can't send out a press release in New York

729
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 3: and get attention. You got to do something, and that's

730
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: what we would do. We would do things to grab

731
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: the media attention. The outrageousness of it made the case

732
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: which changed the racial profiling laws. But you had to

733
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 3: be able to dramatize. I remember when we was watching

734
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: at Vincent Hurrys when they killed Yussef Hawkins, and they

735
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: were throwing watermelons at us and calling us words, and

736
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 3: one of them, Saturdays, got stabbed me and I remember

737
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: I was marching locked arms with Yusef Hawkins brother and

738
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: he said, Reverend, hell you right, they're acting crazy. This

739
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: is gonna be wild on the TV news tonight they'll

740
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 3: know now it was race to kill my brother. He said,

741
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: this is gonna be great. I said, yeah, if we

742
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 3: lived to the end of this watch because they were

743
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: so crazy, even I got dirvious. But that's what you

744
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: have to do. You've got to be able to strategically

745
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 3: know how to raise the drama level and that edge.

746
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: You got to be real careful and disciplined about and

747
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: you got to be ready to be different. People would

748
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: not do that. It was me learning that the actors

749
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 3: from James Brown, combining to what I learned in the

750
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: King Movement and trying to bring it up north.

751
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 8: So the question that that's interesting you say that because

752
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 8: one of the questions I have for you, because you know,

753
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 8: you are a reverend, and you said, you know that's

754
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 8: your calling, but you are you know, very.

755
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: Much a celebrity as well.

756
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 8: So how do you kind of walk that line between

757
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 8: you know, your your ministry and your calling but also

758
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 8: having to be a public figure and if not an

759
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 8: outright entertainer so to speak. But you know, like you

760
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 8: just said, you have to, you know, get people's attention.

761
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 8: How how have you walked that line throughout your career Because.

762
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: I always am honest with myself that I'm not an actor.

763
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: I'm not a singer and dancer. My celebrity came from

764
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: my activism, not my activism from my way around. A

765
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 3: lot of celebrities try to act like activists. I do

766
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: what I believe and and I won't do it if

767
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: I don't believe in it. I'm the kind of person

768
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: that's very disciplined like that. And I remind myself, kid,

769
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 3: you've grown up broken home on welfare in Brooklyn, that

770
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 3: only God could have put me where I am. And

771
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 3: he put me there for a reason. And I don't

772
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: want to get him to drop me for forgetting the

773
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 3: reason I'm there. When James Brown and others tried to

774
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: get me to just you can drop that you can

775
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: do entertaining. No, I gotta do this. This is what

776
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 3: I'm call I would have never known you, mister Brown.

777
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 3: It wasn't forgotten. And I really believe that.

778
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 8: When you talk about you know, doing you know, getting

779
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 8: behind stuff that you believe in, do you think in

780
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 8: any way like the Toronto the Tounta Brawley case. Did

781
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 8: that change? I guess the way you were vet things?

782
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 8: Uh you know in your career.

783
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. How did that affect?

784
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: When the lawyers called me about Broadley and I was

785
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: out there three or four months after, you know, they

786
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: started the case and we're moving. I went on the

787
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: lawyer's word and I believed them, and I believe this girl.

788
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 3: Why would not. You got people now that believe when

789
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: people say things and win the meet to error. But

790
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 3: I learned from that to vet it more carefully. Uh

791
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: so that every every eye doted, every tea's crossed to

792
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: the best of your ability. You never know all the

793
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: way what somebody's gonna do. Because a year after I

794
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: got in Brawley, I stood up for five kids accused

795
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 3: of a rapeist Central Park that they confessed to. I

796
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: ended up right on that one. They said I was

797
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 3: wrong on Broadley. It all happened within the same year.

798
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 3: So you taking a leap of faith, But I learned

799
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: not to take crazy leaps. Try to vet it as

800
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: much as you can and be careful, because you don't

801
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: want to discredit the movement by getting in situations that

802
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: blow up in your face, like right now we have

803
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: three policemen indicted for killing George Floyd. We don't know

804
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 3: what the jury's gonna do when they go to trial.

805
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: We went and helped blow up Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman gott

806
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: to quit it, and some people will say I was

807
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: wrong on Zimmerman. They said he was not guilty. But

808
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: Trayvon Martin is dead. So you've got to be willing

809
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: to stick in there and take the bad days with

810
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: the good. But make sure your intentions are good and

811
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: right and that you're as careful as you could be,

812
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 3: which is why I'm not getting any cases like that

813
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: since because I vetted, even if my lawyer brings it

814
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: to me, I vetted as much as I can, and

815
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: like I'm a prosecutor, I want to know every angle.

816
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 5: My question is there's just you know, we're going all

817
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 5: over the place now. In two thousand and four, when

818
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 5: you decided what means you decide to try to run

819
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 5: for president in two thousand and four.

820
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: I looked at the fact that in eighty four and

821
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 3: eighty eight Jesse had run and had really moved the

822
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: party more too towards the left, which we believed in,

823
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: and nobody had picked that up. And I'm looking at

824
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: the fact that we had just come out of the

825
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 3: war in Iraq and there were people that had moved

826
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: the party to the right, if you remember clintoning, them

827
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 3: were triangular and they were like almost centrist. And I

828
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 3: wanted to run to get into debates to bring up

829
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: racial profiling, to bring up police misconduct and how the

830
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: war Iraq was wrong. So I ran to try to

831
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: be on the stage to get a national hearing on

832
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: our issues. Uh. And that's what I did. And in

833
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: the debates, I would bring up stuff that nobody would

834
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: bring up with They had to deal with race, they

835
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: had to deal with policing, they had to deal with Iraq.

836
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 3: And I knew I wasn't gonna win, But I won

837
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: because I made those InTru that those issues become central

838
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: and uh, and I got a good vote and that

839
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: that is when mainstream white America started saying that, well,

840
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: he not just some guy out there angry. He really

841
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: knows the issues. But the point was if we could

842
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 3: get on the mainstream stage and our giall issues, we

843
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 3: could affect policy. And that's why I rang.

844
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 6: Can I ask you it's interesting because the issue recently

845
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 6: came up. I was watching a new show about Van Jones,

846
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 6: and I love the way you ride your relationships because

847
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 6: you were just talking earlier about how, of course you

848
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 6: ran against Bush. Your relationship is not the same with

849
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 6: Bush as it was then. Relationship is not the same

850
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 6: with a lot of people, right sick Clinton's how do

851
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 6: you walk this line? I mean, in the Van Jones comparison,

852
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 6: some people were saying, well, why are you in pictures

853
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 6: with this person?

854
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 7: You know, we don't.

855
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 6: That doesn't happen with Al Sharpton, right, Like, everything seems

856
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 6: to be very planned out in a way, but yet.

857
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 7: You still work together. So can you kind of break

858
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 7: that down because.

859
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 3: You gotta let him know it's not personal. But just

860
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 3: like you got your beliefs, I have mine. So Donald

861
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: Trump I knew in New York. I marched on him

862
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: about Central Park. Then he tried that he was Democrat

863
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: when Dinkins was in but I when Trump won, about

864
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 3: a month after he won, he called me. I'd been

865
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: on Morning Joe that morning and Joe asked me about Trump.

866
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 3: He said, you know him, you fought with him, and

867
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 3: then he tried to be friendly and I said, well,

868
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 3: you got to understand New York to understand Donald Trump.

869
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: And I explained. Trump was an out of borough guy

870
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 3: in the Queens going the money, but he wasn't part

871
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: of the established, He wasn't at the power spots. So

872
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 3: he had this chip on his shoulder to day that

873
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: the Park Avenue guys looked down on him and his father,

874
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 3: and he was able to translate that to a lot

875
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: of white, blue collar working class people who he never was.

876
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: But he wasn't part of the accepted rothschilds of the world. Right.

877
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: So when I got off the show, this is about

878
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: December first, I think twenty thirteen, And when I got

879
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: off the show, No. Twenty sixteen, when he ran and

880
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 3: I was in a board meeting of National Action Network,

881
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 3: my organization, and my cell phone rang and I looked down.

882
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: I didn't know the number, and I had it on silence,

883
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: and so I let it ring. It rang again, so

884
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: I said, maybe something happened. So I picked up the

885
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 3: phone and whisper, I'm in a board meeting. Called me later,

886
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: whoever this is because I didn't know the number, and

887
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: the boy said, can you hold on for the President elect?

888
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: And I said, They said can you hold on for

889
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 3: the president elect? So I put my finger like I'm

890
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: in church, and I walk out the barnment. Now go

891
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 3: in the hall of where we were and Trump comes on, al,

892
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 3: I saw you this morning all morning, Joe, you got me.

893
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: You're right, I wasn't outside and look at me. Now

894
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: I'm the president elect of the United States. Can you

895
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 3: believe it? I said, no, I am having a hard

896
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 3: time belief he said. He said, well, he said, look

897
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 3: at you. You got a TV show, but you're still marching.

898
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 3: They never thought he one of us would be anything.

899
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: He says, I want you to come to Marrow logo.

900
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 3: We're gonna talk. I said, I'm not doing that.

901
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 5: He said.

902
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 3: I said, I'm not doing that. I said, to all respect,

903
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: you will not do the photo out with me.

904
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 6: We're not going to do a lot of people came

905
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 6: to Trump Tower in those first months.

906
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 3: Not me. I will not do it. And the whole

907
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: time he was in he called me two or three times,

908
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't go to the White House at all

909
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 3: because I understand from my background growing up in both

910
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: the church and in show business, optics are important everything,

911
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 3: and you give them the photo, they use it whatever

912
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: way they want, and I would not give him that photo.

913
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: How this bing was it to see that photo when

914
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: he had the.

915
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 5: Whatever the fifty black preachers or whatever, or just in general,

916
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 5: how this ming was it to see how easy it

917
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 5: was to be.

918
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 4: I'm assuming no r yes, but it was.

919
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 3: It was disheartening because you know that he's using you,

920
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: and knowing Donald Trump, he probably didn't give people that much.

921
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: People get all enthralled just to go to the White House.

922
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 3: And the dvantage I had questlove is by growing up

923
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 3: around people like Jesse and Night James Brown, I would

924
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: impress it all I've been in the White House. I

925
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: could take four years not going to the White House.

926
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: But a lot of them have never been invited before.

927
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 3: And the standing with the president it mean nothing to me.

928
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 3: They're gonna be a new president in four years. Joe

929
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 3: Biden and I talked, but Joe Biden will be gone

930
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 3: in four years from the White House. I'll be out

931
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: shopped as long as I live. I'm gonna stand for

932
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: what I stand for. I'm not gonna give that up

933
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: for some temporary photo up. And I think, and I

934
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 3: tell a lot of those people that is, don't play

935
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 3: yourself like that they may need you and will discard

936
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: you when they don't need you. It ain't personal. The

937
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 3: cause is bigger than all of us.

938
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 5: Were there certain preachers or community leaders that you knew

939
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 5: that were considering that that you personally have to talk

940
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 5: out of doing that.

941
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: I talked to one or two that I talked out of,

942
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: and I talked to one that I couldn't talk out of.

943
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 3: And I won't. I won't, you know, give up their

944
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: names and I will tell them. I know Donald Trump.

945
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is a user and he will drop you.

946
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: And and as soon as the photos over which he did,

947
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: and look what he did in his own buddies, He

948
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 3: let a lot of them get indicted all he parted

949
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 3: some of them. I mean, that's who he is. And

950
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 3: you don't ever deal with a guy like that.

951
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 6: Here's no ethics, al Can you please give us the backstory,

952
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 6: your idea, the backstory behind some of these pardons.

953
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 7: I'm confused, like.

954
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 3: I think that he felt that if he pardoned some

955
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: of them, My honest to God belief is that he

956
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: was looking out for him, thinking that they would not

957
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 3: sit up in jail and tell on him because now

958
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: he can be prosecuted on a state level. I think

959
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 3: he did that to cover the fact that he let

960
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 3: Lil Wayne and Kodak go and then to let twenty

961
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: of his boys go. So he was trying to act

962
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: like he be in balanced.

963
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 4: Actually I guess.

964
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 7: Go ahead, give it up, give it.

965
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 5: The Wayne situation was that, you know, he was on

966
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 5: a private jet headed to Miami and he had things

967
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 5: on him, and of course the pilot win in Karen

968
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 5: mode and kind of called the police ahead of time

969
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 5: when he landed, like with clients, and they have guns

970
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 5: on the plane. So of course he gets nabbed. He

971
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 5: was already on probation. And what happens is his lawyer

972
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 5: called up the governor of Florida and was like, can

973
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 5: you do whatever you whatever you can do, just help us.

974
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 5: So the governor gets him off. And what happens is

975
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 5: may be a month before the elections, Wayne pretty much

976
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 5: uh you know Wayne's uh, Wayne's people got a call.

977
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 4: Uh.

978
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 5: Trump had said like, give me any celebrity, anyone, anyone

979
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 5: forced me. I need someone that's big in the black

980
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 5: community and the and the government.

981
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: Remember what he.

982
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 5: Did for Wayne, And it was sort of like a

983
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 5: you owe me thing, And what I believed happened was

984
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 5: that Wayne went in thinking that was a one off

985
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 5: photo op thing, did the photo op thing, and then

986
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 5: it was sort of like the bait and switch. Will

987
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 5: you travel with me and and do the rest of

988
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 5: the campaign. They were like no, we you said the

989
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 5: one photo op thing. And then when that was broken,

990
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 5: Trump got on the governor and then the governor was like, well,

991
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 5: I will just resend your you know, your part, your

992
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 5: probation whatever, and you got to go back to jail.

993
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was it was a.

994
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: It was a way bigger story always.

995
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 8: I was gonna ask, I was curious to know your

996
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 8: work with with younger activists and what are some of

997
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 8: the differences that you see between your generation and the

998
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 8: younger generation of actors, be it you know, Black Lives Matter,

999
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 8: or you know, just any of the youth organizations now.

1000
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 8: And what are also some of the I guess some

1001
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 8: of the difficulties you have in uh, you know, in

1002
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 8: dealing with the youth activists. Are they more receptive to

1003
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 8: listen to, you know, to take advice from an elder

1004
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 8: or did they just seem to be like, oh well no,

1005
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 8: we want to do it our own way.

1006
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: How how is that relationship for you.

1007
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 3: Some of them doing the Trey Vond piece was tension.

1008
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: You know, we don't want to listen to the to

1009
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 3: the old God. We want to make our name. And

1010
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 3: I kept telling them. I said, let me tell you something.

1011
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 3: These cameras are gonna leave and we have to be organized.

1012
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: And gradually we started getting together, the three sisters that

1013
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 3: started Black Lives Matter, Lesia, Gods of Sister Colors, all

1014
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 3: three of them and I started talking a lot, and

1015
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: they started seeing this thing was difficult. I started seeing

1016
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 3: that sincerity. So we worked together. They do my TV show.

1017
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: We talked. When I did a book last year, they

1018
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 3: did the book, taught me virtually. Then you got some

1019
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 3: that's just out there, that's totally wild. Then you have

1020
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 3: others that are sincere. And I tell them there's no

1021
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: difference in y'all want to do it your way. I

1022
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 3: want to do it different than Jesse. Jesse did it

1023
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 3: different than doctor King. That's part of life. But we

1024
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: are all in the same cause. And I might I

1025
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: must say last year when we called the Big March

1026
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: in Washington and we are in the middle of a pandemic,

1027
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 3: we had aw hundred thousand people, all of them came

1028
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 3: and I told them I don't I don't have to

1029
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,959
Speaker 3: put no shade on you. You ain't got to worry about

1030
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 3: being I'm gonna be our shop there anyway I can

1031
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: help y'all. Y'all can help me, but you just can't

1032
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 3: do no violent stuff around me. And most of them

1033
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 3: are not viny, and I won't do I won't make

1034
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 3: you go to church. If you want to throw a brick,

1035
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 3: let's make a compromise and we kind of get along

1036
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 3: like that. I have a big youth department in my

1037
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 3: organization because I intend to somebody's gonna take my organization

1038
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 3: and go for so a lot of the things I

1039
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: have my youth work with their youth. They're the same age.

1040
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: Some of them are younger that are in national action.

1041
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: There were and always been that you had to remember

1042
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 3: in history. Jesse was with doctor King's Stokely Carmichael then

1043
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 3: was Black Power was on the other side of the

1044
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 3: King thing. They were all the same age. John Lewis, Jesse, Jackson, Stokely,

1045
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: Comac or rap Brown always the same age. There's always

1046
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 3: been differences in every generation. So a lot of the

1047
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 3: young actors say we speak for the youth. Know, you

1048
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 3: speak for some youth. Some youth still go to church.

1049
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 3: Some youth are non vinent. I don't speak for all

1050
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 3: the elders. Everybody's got their piece work, your peace, and

1051
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 3: let's try to make something happen. And my thing is

1052
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 3: that it's a big highway out here, and as long

1053
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 3: as we don't switch lanes without a signal, we won't

1054
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:06,280
Speaker 3: have an accent.

1055
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 6: Now, I was just gonna say, remmy that scene and

1056
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 6: Malcolm Xta THEREV was in when they little aspects of

1057
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 6: what was going on.

1058
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: Sorry, I tell you about that scene. I know we

1059
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 3: got to go, but I'll tell you about that scene.

1060
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 3: Spike Lee called me and asked me to do that scene,

1061
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 3: and I told him, you know that I was only

1062
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: eighty or nine years old, got killed. I'm just gonna

1063
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 3: put you up there because Spike Lee, Russell Simmons and

1064
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 3: I all grew up together in New York, getting on

1065
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 3: at around the same time. That's our generation. Spike's my generation.

1066
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 3: Spike about two years younger than me. You see, I'm

1067
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 3: always mentioning Spikes movies. Denzeler not the same age. That's

1068
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: our generation. And I can tell you, Denzel about you

1069
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 3: know John Davids getting more pots than you now because.

1070
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 7: That explains you on the dance floor. Now, now I

1071
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 7: get it.

1072
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 6: You was ah okay, all right, I see you on.

1073
00:56:58,239 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 7: A dance floor a few times.

1074
00:56:59,480 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 3: Get off.

1075
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 7: Oh yes, everybody.

1076
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: Bred. I want to know you know, we live in

1077
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: a time now where.

1078
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 5: You know, the the audacity of white supremacy is kind

1079
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 5: of proudly, you know, rearing its head once again in

1080
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 5: ways that they haven't done since the twenties. It's my

1081
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 5: question isn't did you ever think that it would ever

1082
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 5: come back to square one? I guess my question is

1083
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 5: how can we finally nip this properly in the blood

1084
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 5: that we have not done?

1085
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: Now that we're back at square one, I.

1086
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 3: Think that what we're seeing is a backlash like we

1087
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 3: never saw. There's always a history, been a backlash after

1088
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 3: slavery reconstruction. In the backlash was the Klan. I think

1089
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 3: what makes this different is this the first time you

1090
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: had somebody in the White House that actually fan the

1091
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 3: flame to make them feel like nothing would happen to them.

1092
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 3: The law was on their side. And I think that

1093
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 3: the only way you're gonna lit this in the bud

1094
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 3: is you're going to have to have some strong laws

1095
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 3: and you're gonna have to make examples of them to

1096
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 3: go to jail. They're going to have to do time.

1097
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 3: And then the others that feel that way will know

1098
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 3: I may feel this way, but I won't be able

1099
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 3: to behave.

1100
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 2: You won't do that no more.

1101
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 3: That's how how do you stop crying before you start

1102
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 3: print walking some of them and they will start learning

1103
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 3: how to obey and act like they got good sense

1104
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 3: and that that's what you got to do. And that's

1105
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: what I've told bike, and you got to make examples.

1106
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 3: Can't be no you know. Uh, let's join hands and

1107
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 3: and sing, come by out and we go time. Look

1108
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: at what they did. They start with a George Floyd

1109
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 3: or they start with demonizing somebody like me. They run

1110
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 3: up in the capitals in the capital of the United

1111
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 3: States and was walking around looking calling for members of

1112
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 3: Congress to hurt them. If y'all don't put this in

1113
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: a real focus a penalty, they'll come after you because

1114
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: they don't care unless you make them here. Some of

1115
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:15,959
Speaker 3: them will have to do some real time.

1116
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 2: Are there times like this? Uh?

1117
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 8: You know, even though you you know worked your career

1118
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 8: as you know, a nonviolent activist. All the times like

1119
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 8: this that really put that to the test for you,

1120
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 8: like you know, or if not this time, any other

1121
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 8: times in your career where the real non violent beliefs

1122
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 8: are really tested.

1123
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever, meaning you not violent, don't mean that you

1124
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 3: are punk and and and that you don't get angry.

1125
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 3: But you you catch yourself because I also feel like,

1126
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 3: particularly uh like when we start this conversation, if I'm

1127
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 3: out there representing families, I can't let my emotions embarrass them.

1128
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 3: So if I go off on somebody, I'm hurting their

1129
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 3: regardeners family. I'm not just hurting now shopping, you know,

1130
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 3: I'm hurt George Floyd's town. So I tried not to

1131
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 3: misrepresent that, but my jaws get tight. There's a lot

1132
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 3: of times I won't even listen to talk radio because

1133
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,959
Speaker 3: if I listened to some of the right wing radio

1134
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 3: what they say, I'll get out the car and make

1135
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 3: my next speech cussing everybody out reacting to something. You're human,

1136
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 3: but you got to try to discipline and keep telling

1137
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 3: yourself you're here for a reason, not a season. You

1138
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 3: gotta last it uphold these people.

1139
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 7: Oh, thank you, thank you.

1140
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 8: I was curious, what was your relationship because I guess

1141
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 8: I'm so. I was born in seventy eight, so my

1142
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 8: earliest memories of you, believe it or not, were from

1143
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 8: the Morton Down and Junior show. Straight up, I'm saying,

1144
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 8: like he you know, he come out, so I mean

1145
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 8: he was like, yeah, he would like you know, this

1146
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 8: is like Jerry Springer before whatever.

1147
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: But how much of that with him?

1148
01:00:58,360 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 3: Uh?

1149
01:00:59,080 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Was that real?

1150
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: And because like you said, you know in New York,

1151
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 2: I mean, you worked the circuit, you see these guys

1152
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 2: all the time.

1153
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 8: How much of that of you and his relationship was

1154
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 8: like you guys really didn't like each other, and how

1155
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 8: much of it was kind of for the camera?

1156
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: What was y'all dynamic?

1157
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: Like, God, we didn't like each other at first. I

1158
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: think after a while we sort of understood that he

1159
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 3: wanted me on for controversy. I wanted him on because

1160
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 3: the mainstream shows wasn't booking us then, so it was

1161
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 3: me using him to get our thing out there. And

1162
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 3: I remember years later, Mike Wallace did a thing with

1163
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: me in the early nineties up and sixty minutes, and

1164
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 3: he asked me, why did you do one down there?

1165
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 3: I said, because you went interview me. As soon as

1166
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: I started getting made street, I left down there alone.

1167
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 3: But we started really not liking each other, but we

1168
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 3: kind of adjusted because I think it was equal use.

1169
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, all right.

1170
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 5: My final question, I have to say that your health

1171
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 5: regiment has been very inspirational to me and watching you.

1172
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 5: What was the decis to really get your health game

1173
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 5: together and to I guess, get your.

1174
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: Life right and how you keep it off? Then the rona,

1175
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 2: how have you kept it off this stuff?

1176
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know, at first people used to do cartoons

1177
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 3: and all about me and the jarging suits and fat

1178
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 3: and all. That didn't bother me. But as my daughters

1179
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 3: started getting older. I remember one day I was at

1180
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: the house and my youngest daughter, she was about five,

1181
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 3: then Ashley. She walked over to me and patted me

1182
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 3: on the bell and said, Daddy, you fat, And that

1183
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: hurt me, and I thought it, wanting to lose weight

1184
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 3: for her, and I lost a lot of weight. Then

1185
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 3: in nine in two thousand and one, I went and

1186
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 3: let a protest in Puerto Rico, you might remember, protesting

1187
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 3: the bombing and bats, and the federal judge gave me

1188
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 3: ninety days in jail, and I fasted forty days and

1189
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 3: I lost a lot of weight and I felt better,

1190
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 3: and I started saying, you know what, I'm gonna change

1191
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 3: my diet and keep it off. So jail made me

1192
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 3: going a regiment. So I stopped eating meat. Then I

1193
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 3: pushed back on starches and sugars, and then I started

1194
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 3: feeling that I get more energy. I worked sixteen eighteen

1195
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 3: hour days and it just gave me more energy. And

1196
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: right now I only eat raw vegetables, raw fruits. I

1197
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 3: may eat fish one day a week, but no meat

1198
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 3: at all, no chicken. It was hard to give up

1199
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 3: chicken and preaching not eat chicken.

1200
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: But I mean, how many chicken places you have to

1201
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: pass up?

1202
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: Jesus? I was like, wait a minute, from.

1203
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 5: Church, I ain't even doing that.

1204
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: That was hard, But and then you know, a lot

1205
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 3: of people felt I lost weight to do TV. I

1206
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 3: had already lost the way. I had no idea i'd

1207
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 3: have a TV show. But it's became a way of

1208
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: life and it doesn't bother me. I had that kind

1209
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 3: of will. But I can sit down in front of

1210
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 3: people that can have everything I used to love to eat.

1211
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 3: It doesn't bother me at all.

1212
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 7: You are so amazing, man, that's what's up. God, damn

1213
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 7: it the shit.

1214
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: I just thank you.

1215
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 5: I thank you for doing this for me. I know

1216
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 5: your schedules busy.

1217
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 3: I thank you, man, and I thank you for being you.

1218
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,479
Speaker 3: You've been a real cultural influence, even though you hurt

1219
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: my feelings once because I brought my daughter, got my

1220
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 3: daughter to thirty Rocks. She's in her thirties now. She

1221
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 3: got a friend with her and I was getting that

1222
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 3: Vader and my friend. Her friend looked at say that's

1223
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: Quest Loved and jumped up the elevator. And they never

1224
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 3: act like that around me, but they was trailing you,

1225
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 3: and I said this, nickro got some nerve that he's

1226
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 3: a bigger, a bigger than I am. At thirty Rocks

1227
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 3: Quest Love, I'm about I.

1228
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 5: Was all afraid. I mean, brother, now you just walked by.

1229
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, thank you for doing that show.

1230
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 5: I appreciate it. Thank you so much, love you.

1231
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 2: Thank you for being our golf bussers for real. Yes,

1232
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 2: thank you all you're doing man.

1233
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 6: Oh, I was just gonna remind everybody to make sure

1234
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 6: that they watch Politics Nation every Saturday and Sunday.

1235
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 4: Yes on behalf of team Supreme. My yea Sugar Steve,

1236
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 4: unpaid bill.

1237
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: I'll take a little yes, thank you very much for

1238
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: ever now. I appreciate it this Quest Love Supreme. We

1239
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: will see you on the next go round. We appreciate it.

1240
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1241
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 3: Hey, this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you keep up

1242
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 3: with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know

1243
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 3: what you take and you should be next to suit

1244
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 3: down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast.

1245
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of Ihearty Radio.

1246
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 5: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1247
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.