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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Everybody's Business

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Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Business Week.

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Speaker 2: I'm Max Chafkin, I'm Stacey Bennix Smith and Max. I

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Speaker 2: think the theme for this week is situationships.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where this is going, but.

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Speaker 2: Okay, situationships as in a relationship that's kind of messy,

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Speaker 2: not entirely defined, source of a lot of drama. Situationships.

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Speaker 1: All right, Stacy, I'm gonna work with you here because

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Speaker 1: but because I think you're right a little bit like

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Speaker 1: it does kind of describe our situation with tariffs right now. Yes,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're awesome, maybe they're not. Maybe they're legal, maybe

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Speaker 1: they're not. We've got Joe Wisenthal of Bloomberg's Odd Lots podcast,

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Speaker 1: a friend of the pod here talking markets and tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Also, the Movie of the Summer is well, it's not

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Speaker 2: in theaters, Max, it is on Netflix. Movie of the

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Speaker 2: Summer on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this. I just want to say

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Speaker 1: the title.

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Speaker 2: I know the great Sam Sanders is here to talk.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead. K Pop Demon Hunter K Pop Demon Hunters.

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Speaker 2: Max is very into this movie, and we'll talk with

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Speaker 2: Sam about it.

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Speaker 1: And finally, I'm told it's pumpkin spice latt sas and

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Speaker 1: now I'm told Mario is love the flavor. It's everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Nothing is complicated about that one, right.

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Speaker 2: Stacy, Except most of the ingredients are imported, so tariffs

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Speaker 2: are complicating our relationship with pumpkin spice lattes. It's pumpkin

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Speaker 2: spice tariff season now. I think right now in our economy,

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Speaker 2: the ultimate situationship is between companies, workers and AI.

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Speaker 1: And we talked about this two weeks ago on the

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Speaker 1: episode that Zitron, which people should check out at that

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Speaker 1: and listen to. There's all this promise with AI. We're

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Speaker 1: all a lot of businesses are super excited about it.

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Speaker 1: They're investing sing billions in some cases.

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Speaker 2: Ten workers replaced by this technology in some cases right.

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Speaker 1: And and there's also the promise that it could create

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Speaker 1: more jobs. It's just it just feels like so much

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Speaker 1: there is up in the air, and we really don't

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Speaker 1: know anything yet except we're all spending tons of money

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, and I think things are changing really fast

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Speaker 2: and everyone's like, is this going to take my job?

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Speaker 2: Is this going to help me do my job? But

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Speaker 2: I thought I would go to students because they are

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Speaker 2: tend to be more comfortable with new technology on the

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Speaker 2: cutting edge. So to Columbia to NYU to kind of

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Speaker 2: track down some students and ask them how they are

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Speaker 2: using AI. And here's what they said. Do you guys

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Speaker 2: use AI? Yes, all the time, all the time. We're

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Speaker 2: actually AI students students, really yes? What do you use

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Speaker 2: it for?

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Speaker 1: Editing?

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Speaker 2: So like if you write a papers.

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Speaker 3: It could be like as simple as just like a

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Speaker 3: text just to polish my language?

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Speaker 2: Or is it like some simple researchers.

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Speaker 4: I don't trust an.

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Speaker 2: AI on like super deep academic stuff yet. And what

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Speaker 2: about like with schoolwork, is it like a big helper.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say take AI with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 2: because they make mistakes just like humans do as well.

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Speaker 2: Always double check.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, it's basically the greatest cheat code for college.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm not even kidding.

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Speaker 5: I do know a few people who have used AI

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Speaker 5: or chat GBT as kind of like a friend, like

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Speaker 5: getting advice from I.

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Speaker 4: Agree, but I definitely think that other people might find

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Speaker 4: more comfort in AI as a friend than what we

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Speaker 4: might like to think.

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Speaker 1: I study actually in the field of public health. I

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Speaker 1: studied cancer and epidemiology. We are actually working with AI,

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Speaker 1: like studying and working.

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Speaker 2: With it with the rise of AI, like pretty much

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Speaker 2: anything as possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, oh god, I'm so worried for

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Speaker 1: our future. Really, the AI students, well are they? Are

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Speaker 1: they ais or are they actual people?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just got worried for a second that you

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Speaker 1: had interviewed like a couple of chatbots.

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Speaker 2: There was a fact at chatbot in the mix there

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Speaker 2: was one of the answers was a computer. It was

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Speaker 2: the one who said that AI was the best cheat code.

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Speaker 2: I asked chat gpt to come up with, like, it's

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Speaker 2: like defensive AI was like if you were an a enthusiast,

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Speaker 2: what would you say? And you were students, So we

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Speaker 2: said like, hey, it's the greatest cheat code. I'm not

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Speaker 2: even kidding. And then I used to script the software

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Speaker 2: program has AI voices that you can interject, and so

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Speaker 2: I mixed that in. But everybody else was real. Everybody

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Speaker 2: else was a real student.

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Speaker 1: Okay, A couple of things. One is I'm glad at

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Speaker 1: least one person said, uh, yeah, you can't trust it

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Speaker 1: for everything, because.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, she was one of the aid students.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that makes sense because she's actually an expert.

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Speaker 1: And the funniest thing about being an AI hater is

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Speaker 1: that the biggest AI haters are AI experts in many

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Speaker 1: cases because they're the ones who actually understand the limitations

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Speaker 1: of these tepelogies, whereas like people who are just like

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Speaker 1: you know, dipping in and out. I don't know, in

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Speaker 1: some cases they're using it in dangerous ways, like trying

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Speaker 1: to trick their co host into misidentifying I think I was.

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Speaker 2: Doing that for illustrative purposes, not at for gas malented. No,

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Speaker 2: there was no mal intent. I was just kind of

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Speaker 2: showing you that if that voice had been like ten

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Speaker 2: percent better, I don't think you would have picked it up.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I don't know. It's super interesting. Like I

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Speaker 1: do think that the in terms of these questions of

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Speaker 1: new technology, they are probably like two categories that are

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Speaker 1: worth looking at. Like one is pornography because that's where

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Speaker 1: all new technologies seem to start, and the other are

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Speaker 1: the are the youngs who are using AI.

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Speaker 2: Well, I chose to go with the youngs for this

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Speaker 2: episode because we are a family podcast. Max, you do

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Speaker 2: what you need to do for research, Max without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: The situationship I believe is dominating our economy right now,

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Speaker 2: at least this week is terriff.

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Speaker 1: I hate the word, but you're right, that is what

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Speaker 1: this is.

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Speaker 2: And I felt like it was really worth exploring this

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Speaker 2: because I looked into this and since Liberation Day, the

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Speaker 2: tariffs have been like postponed, paused, modified, you know, enacted,

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Speaker 2: reacted more than a hundred times. It has been so

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Speaker 2: much back and forth.

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Speaker 1: A lot of defining the relationship going.

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Speaker 2: On, a lot of like DTR talks that just seemed

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Speaker 2: to be going nowhere, and in the latest twist, there's

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Speaker 2: a big question about their legality. So Trump used something

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Speaker 2: called AIPA to pass the tariffs. That's the International Emergency

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Speaker 2: Economic Powers Act. It was in place in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 2: and it essentially because normally Congress has to okay the tariffs,

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Speaker 2: this gives the president like an emergency power to override

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Speaker 2: Congress and just make it happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and OG listeners of everybody's business will remember that

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Speaker 1: we talked about this when a lower court initially invalidated

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Speaker 1: this basically said no, that Trump is sort of abusing

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Speaker 1: this law. He doesn't have all the power that he

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Speaker 1: says he has to to do these Liberation Day tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Right, He's claiming the trade deficit is the emergency, and

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Speaker 2: so our trade deficit with all these countries is an emergency.

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Speaker 2: The Supreme Court is now going to be hearing this

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Speaker 2: case and Trump has asked to fast track it. But

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Speaker 2: if it doesn't happen, it would mean all the tariffs

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Speaker 2: were invalidated and the US would have to refund the

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Speaker 2: money it's collected so far. It would be a mess.

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Speaker 2: It was very complicated. We decided we would bring in

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Speaker 2: someone to help us kind of navigate, like why the

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Speaker 2: markets are reacting to this as they are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we walked all the way over to the other

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Speaker 1: side journey of the floor where are and found Joe Wisen's.

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Speaker 2: All Leaping over Desks.

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Speaker 1: Odd Lots podcast, which is awesome if you don't listen

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Speaker 1: to it. Joe is like one of the smartest, one

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Speaker 1: of the most entertaining people on markets. UH agreed we

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Speaker 1: could find and.

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Speaker 2: Here he is in the studio with us. Joe Wisenthal,

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Speaker 2: a co host of Odd Loots. Welcome, Joe, Hi, thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me. Well, we're very excited to have

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Speaker 2: you here. Especially since we are a confused Max and

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Speaker 2: I are confused right now and we're hoping you can

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Speaker 2: clear this up. So, when tariffs were first put in place,

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that some people liked them,

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Speaker 2: some people hated them. The markets did not like them.

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Speaker 2: Sure correct, Now that they their legality is being questioned,

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Speaker 2: it seems like the markets do not like the idea

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Speaker 2: of the tariffs going away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And amid this like ruling, Trump got up at

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Speaker 1: a podium and the market was going down, and he said,

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Speaker 1: he said this, let's just listen, and.

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Speaker 6: Now it's going to the Supreme Court and we're going

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Speaker 6: to ask for expedited and expedited ruling because you know,

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Speaker 6: when you look at the stock markets down today, the

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Speaker 6: stock market's down because of that, because the stock market

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Speaker 6: needs the tariffs.

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Speaker 1: They want the tariffs. Like I listened to that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, Trump's probably just saying that

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Speaker 1: because he likes the tariffs. But like it made me wonder,

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Speaker 1: is there any truth to that? Does the stock market

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Speaker 1: we can talk about the bomb market too, Do the

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Speaker 1: markets like the tariffs? And is there any aspect to this?

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Speaker 1: Is that he's right about.

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Speaker 4: I will try to maybe make the strongest defense of

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Speaker 4: that claim, which is there probably is some truth to

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Speaker 4: the idea that policy uncertainty is not great for the market,

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Speaker 4: and this would clearly reinject I guess. I suppose policy

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Speaker 4: uncertainty on the volatility of the tariff policy is probably

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Speaker 4: narrower than it was back in early April, although there

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Speaker 4: still seems to be changes every day. So I guess

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Speaker 4: the idea that the tariffs could be pulled out the

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Speaker 4: rug from the whole thing, I would not entirely. I

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Speaker 4: suppose discount the possibility that investors aren't crazy about that.

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Speaker 4: I don't really believe it directly. I mean, the thing is,

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Speaker 4: this market is driven by a handful of gigantic tech companies,

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Speaker 4: and it's mostly an AI story at this point, and

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Speaker 4: that is an industry in space that largely is unaffected

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Speaker 4: by the tariffs. So the market is up a lot

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Speaker 4: since early April, in part because there's been some walk

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Speaker 4: back from the Liberation Day levels, and also because nothing

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Speaker 4: has derailed the AI story.

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Speaker 1: Now, there's one.

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Speaker 4: Other element that could be interesting, which is that there

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Speaker 4: is quite a bit of revenue coming into the federal

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Speaker 4: government thanks to the tariffs. Yes, one of the anxieties

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Speaker 4: in markets is what's been happening at the long end

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Speaker 4: of developed market yield curves and sort of bond yields

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Speaker 4: blowing out. If there is some perception that, okay, deficits

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Speaker 4: are already very wide and one of the few sources

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Speaker 4: of growing revenue is going to suddenly disappear, maybe there

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Speaker 4: could be something where people get more concerned about the

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Speaker 4: fiscal equilibrium and that having an effect. That was kind

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Speaker 4: of the story on Tuesday. Like how far I would

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Speaker 4: take that, I'm not sure, but I suppose I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: completely say this is not a factor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, beyond just the uncertainty, which markets notoriously do

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Speaker 2: not like. It also seems like if for some reason

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Speaker 2: the tariffs are declared illegal, this is just gonna be

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Speaker 2: a mess because everybody would have to get their money back.

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Speaker 2: I can imagine just could sue the government for like

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Speaker 2: lost business or increased costs. I mean, it seems like

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Speaker 2: as much as you might dislike the tariffs, as much

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Speaker 2: as someone might dislike the tariffs, doing away with the

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Speaker 2: tariffs is a mess.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be a mess. I mean, there's sort

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Speaker 4: of two things going on at once here. That are

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Speaker 4: both very interesting. I think longer term economists would say, look,

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Speaker 4: even if it's messy in the short term, tariffs are

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Speaker 4: bad tariffs creating efficiencies, They create all kinds of problems.

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Speaker 4: They create divisions between trading partners and allies that make

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Speaker 4: it hard to plan. There are all kinds of issues

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Speaker 4: that tariffs raised, and they would probably say, look, yeah,

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Speaker 4: maybe it'd be a mess in the short term to

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Speaker 4: dial them back, but does not compare to the mess

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Speaker 4: the tariff's.

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Speaker 2: Introduced, So better to like weadhe through the mess.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And I mean I think most economists would say,

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Speaker 4: let's just please get rid of them now. The one

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Speaker 4: complication I would say here is that I would say

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Speaker 4: that there is a perception in the United States right

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Speaker 4: now that we have this dysfunctional public sector and decisions

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Speaker 4: essentially can't get made. Things can't get built, legislation can't

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Speaker 4: get past, et cetera. This is because of the sort

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Speaker 4: of very diffuse nature of democracy, where there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of veto points, et cetera, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: people aren't crazy about how many veto points there are

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Speaker 4: in American democracy, whether at the court level or the

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Speaker 4: local level, et cetera, how hard it is to build things,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. There's this frustration of stagnancy in the built

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Speaker 4: environment and in the policy environment. And perhaps someone would say, well,

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Speaker 4: if the Supreme Court undermines the Trump tariffs, this just

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Speaker 4: confirms the fact that nothing can get done in America.

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Speaker 4: We can't set a new chart of new policy course now. Again,

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Speaker 4: like the ability to tariff is something that is theoretically

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Speaker 4: in the Congress of purview and theoretically should only be

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Speaker 4: used by the White House in emergency situations. The congressation in.

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Speaker 2: Fact invoked those emergency situations. But like for all the

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Speaker 2: countries in the world.

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Speaker 4: And Congress has not stood up for itself. So if

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Speaker 4: Trump is sort of usurping this power that belongs to Congress,

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Speaker 4: it's not like Congress has really complained or certainly the

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Speaker 4: Republican leaders of Congress. Nonetheless, I suppose if the Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court were to rule the tariffs and valid the money

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Speaker 4: was no longer be connected. It may feed into this

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Speaker 4: idea that the American sort of presidential three system of power,

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Speaker 4: it's difficult.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's also the risk branch. When we're talking about INSERTNTY.

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Speaker 1: I was just trying to think, Okay, well, what is

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Speaker 1: the incertanty, because if they invalidated the tariffs, then like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it seems pretty certain we don't we

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Speaker 1: don't know those tariffs. But it seems like part of

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Speaker 1: the risk is that Trump would somehow to ignore the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court or do some other additional thing that would

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Speaker 1: further create a sense of uncertainty.

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Speaker 4: And well, we're in a very weird situation right now

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Speaker 4: with a TikTok band where there does not seem to

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Speaker 4: be any legal basis whatsoever for TikTok to exist on

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Speaker 4: the app stores in the United States. That law has

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Speaker 4: not been repealed at all, but the White House uniletter

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm just going to not ignore it. We're

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Speaker 4: just not going to pay attention to the lower can

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Speaker 4: enforce it. But that's a very weird situation, Like, right,

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Speaker 4: why it's so it is it is illegal by the law,

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Speaker 4: and yet no one is enforcing the ban for better

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Speaker 4: or worse. But that what if the Supreme Court said

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Speaker 4: no tariffs can no longer be collected and the White

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Speaker 4: House instructed the ports to keep collecting the tariffs. I mean, potentially,

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Speaker 4: it's a very weird situations here.

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Speaker 2: I mean also, if you're running a business and you're

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out what to do, and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: should we if the tariffs are locked in, it would

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Speaker 2: be better for us to build a factory and start

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Speaker 2: making things here, or invest in iron mine or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. But it's just hard to know if it's

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Speaker 2: going to get overturned or if it's going to go

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Speaker 2: away with the next president. It's like where do you

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Speaker 2: invest your money? You can't really grow and expand the

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Speaker 2: way you could if you had like a clear course totally.

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Speaker 4: So this is a really important dimension, which is that

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Speaker 4: the longer these tariffs exist in any form, the more

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Speaker 4: likely it is that they will exist forever. Because once

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Speaker 4: you start getting any company that is making domestic investments

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Speaker 4: predicated on the existence of tariffs, that company is a

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Speaker 4: perpetual lobbyist for the existence of.

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Speaker 1: A lobbyist, but like a lobbyist with a pretty good

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Speaker 1: case to make. We should talk about the bomb market

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Speaker 1: a little bit, because, like what Joe said about the

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Speaker 1: stock market is true, like the stock market has done

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Speaker 1: really well during the Trump presidency. But it could just

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Speaker 1: be a comment on like in Vidia and maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: in fact, if if there weren't tariffs.

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Speaker 4: Video, but we know that a huge amount of it

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Speaker 4: is attributable to these companies.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, keep going, yeah, yeah, So anyway, I was just

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Speaker 1: that's a segue for stations.

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Speaker 2: So since the tariff conundrum happened, since it seems like

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Speaker 2: the legalities come into question in a serious way, the

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Speaker 2: bond market has reacted in this way where like yields

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Speaker 2: have gone up, in other words, kind of interest rates

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Speaker 2: have gone up. The US is perceived to be a

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Speaker 2: riskier place to put your money. Yes, so what is

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Speaker 2: going on?

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Speaker 4: I guess one way to think about this question, and

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Speaker 4: it gets back to I think you really have to

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Speaker 4: talk politics, and you really have to talk about this

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Speaker 4: idea of whether you feel that over the next several

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Speaker 4: years we will still even have a nominally or truly

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Speaker 4: independent central bank that can set rates at will or

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Speaker 4: set rates sort of independent of the political cycle, regardless

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Speaker 4: of who is in the White House. And so if

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Speaker 4: you're going to put your money in the US for

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Speaker 4: a long time, if you're going to lock up your

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Speaker 4: money for a long time, you probably would like that

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Speaker 4: the central bank to feel. You would like that confidence

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Speaker 4: that the central bank will do at its job to

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Speaker 4: preserve the value of your currency, avoid high inflation, if

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Speaker 4: you are worried about the political status of the central bank,

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Speaker 4: if you're worried that an entity will no longer exist

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Speaker 4: that is committed to doing getting to two percent inflation

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Speaker 4: sort of whatever the cost because of something upstream in

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Speaker 4: the political cycle, et cetera. I don't know, maybe you

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Speaker 4: want a little bit more compensation in your long term

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Speaker 4: holdings to compensate you for this risk.

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Speaker 1: Well wait, that doesn't really have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: Liberation Day though, or like the tariffs, I mean.

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Speaker 4: Or it doesn't really you're no, no, it's totally true.

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Speaker 4: So it only has anything to do with it in

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Speaker 4: so far as all of this as a commentary on

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Speaker 4: US political stability.

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Speaker 1: Well totally. Like if you're if you're lending money to

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Speaker 1: the US government, you're like, okay, I like the most

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Speaker 1: of those people like the global financial system as it

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Speaker 1: exists today, Like the US is like integrated, this like

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Speaker 1: incredibly successful experiment in politics and capitalism that played out

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Speaker 1: starting after World War Two. Yeah, and if Trump is

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Speaker 1: blowing that up, that makes you nervous. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what it is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right, And all of these things

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Speaker 4: are just sort of novelties within the American political system. Right,

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Speaker 4: say the Supreme Court were to say tariffs are illegal,

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Speaker 4: I mean broad based. First of all, the broad based

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Speaker 4: tariffs on these emergency claims, that's a novelty. The idea

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Speaker 4: of the Supreme Court, then reversing tariffs, that's a novelty.

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Speaker 4: A potential dispute between the White House and the judicial branch,

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Speaker 4: that's a novelty. All of these things, right, that we

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Speaker 4: sort of took for granted, certain institutional arrangements. And this

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Speaker 4: is where I get back to the FED itself. The

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Speaker 4: way I think about the FED is it's been encased

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Speaker 4: in glass, right, and it sort of let operate to

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Speaker 4: do its own thing.

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Speaker 2: And the independence is like a little glass.

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Speaker 4: But it could get shattered, and maybe it will get

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Speaker 4: shattered at some point, or maybe it already has been

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Speaker 4: shattered or at least cracked, based on the fact that's

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Speaker 4: already coming under a lot of criticism. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of institutional arrangements which had been perceived to be stable

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Speaker 4: are perceived to be less stable. And once again, the

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Speaker 4: FED is part of that and could have a factor

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Speaker 4: in the degree of the payment that you want in

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Speaker 4: order to keep your money in dollars long term.

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Speaker 1: And just to bring it back to this initial question,

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Speaker 1: like treasury yields went up yesterday, which again kind of

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Speaker 1: feeds Trump's idea that like, yeah, we need those terrifts market,

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Speaker 1: and what you're saying is this is another the story

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Speaker 1: is kind of the same. It's an uncertain it's a

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Speaker 1: certainty versus.

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Speaker 4: So I think part of this too, you know where

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Speaker 4: it's really bad is in the UK right now that

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Speaker 4: it's getting a lot of attention is how much they're buying.

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Speaker 4: Yields are blowing out at the long end, but it's

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Speaker 4: really it's Japan too, and they're you know, for them

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Speaker 4: long term rates like one point eight percent, which is

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Speaker 4: very low, but it's Japan, so for them that's very

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Speaker 4: high by their grand standard of things.

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Speaker 1: But there is this.

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Speaker 4: Concern I would say two concerns at least in maybe

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Speaker 4: three concerns within rich developed countries, which is that they

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Speaker 4: have unfavorable demographics, that they have aging populations that are

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Speaker 4: going to require a lot of resources that and a

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Speaker 4: lot of that will soak up and burden a lot

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Speaker 4: of the productive labor. Two, some combination of this burden

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Speaker 4: of the aging population and then other sort of the

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Speaker 4: hollowing out of industrial activity, specifically because of competition with China.

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Speaker 4: Is this fear that the productive base of rich Western

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Speaker 4: or you know, sort of rich liberal countries is going

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Speaker 4: to get hollowed out, et cetera. And then finally add

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Speaker 4: on to these things this sort of evident political dysfunction

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Speaker 4: which kind of exists everywhere. I mean, we see it.

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Speaker 4: I think people perceive political volatility in the US the

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Speaker 4: certainly you look at the UK and also doesn't look

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Speaker 4: like they can get anything done. They're always having these

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Speaker 4: very picayune scandals that seem to be at the cover

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Speaker 4: of the paper. But everywhere you look there's similar things

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Speaker 4: going on. There's these sort of stresses that are being

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Speaker 4: put on the sort of political arrangements. So you combine

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Speaker 4: all these three things together and there's sort of this

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Speaker 4: global story going on that is beyond just the question

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Speaker 4: of tariff revenue.

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Speaker 2: So Joe, little known fact, well maybe not that little known,

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Speaker 2: but you are in a band that's right called Seek Crewsure,

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Speaker 2: and I had a musical questions for you because this

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Speaker 2: is so weird. Max is going to die. But It's

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Speaker 2: the first thing that came into my head when I

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Speaker 2: read about the illegal possibly illegal tariffs, which is that

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Speaker 2: song by the Clash, like do I stay or do

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Speaker 2: I go? Oh yeah Gray so hun, Because it seems

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Speaker 2: like with the tariffs, this is the case like if

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Speaker 2: they stay in place, there's going to be trouble. If

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Speaker 2: they go away, do it'll be double.

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Speaker 1: I love the setup that.

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Speaker 5: Was thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's a really long setup, no, but it put I

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Speaker 2: appreciate you rolling with it.

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Speaker 4: I think there are a lot of things like that

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Speaker 4: these days, where we sort of arrive at these forks

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Speaker 4: in the road and we'd sort of want them to

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Speaker 4: never be resultd because neither of the resolutions seem great.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think about this with AI. Do we

440
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 4: want the AI bubble to burst or do we want

441
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 4: AI to take all our jobs? I'm not sure at

442
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 4: this point. I think with tariffs, I look, I have

443
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 4: no I'm a journalist. I have no opinion on tariffs.

444
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 4: I just I just report the news and usually I

445
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 4: just ask the questions. Rarely am I answered them. Yes,

446
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 4: all of these things are very strange, and I don't

447
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 4: you know, from a sort of when you balance out

448
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 4: economics with sort of institutional stability, et cetera. I think

449
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 4: there's this feeling that we're hurtling towards genuinely uncharted territory.

450
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: I feel like that clash song is how investors feel

451
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: about everything, not just yeah.

452
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like it also works with the

453
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: AI bubble too. I mean, do we want things to

454
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: keep going and get super overheated?

455
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: No?

456
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: Do we want the bubble to burst?

457
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: No?

458
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gotta return, not soon.

459
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: But Joe Wisenthal, thanks for being here.

460
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. That was a lot of fun.

461
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: Shoot, I still shoot not go.

462
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 3: If you say that you on my.

463
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 7: I'll be it.

464
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: Tilly En no time, Stacy. Have you seen Kpop Demon Hunters?

465
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: Okay, Yes, this is this movie on Netflix. It's this

466
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: huge hit. I had not watched it until last night

467
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: when you your enthusiasm about this topic encouraged me to

468
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: watch it and I really liked it.

469
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: All right, So listeners to this show know that I

470
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: have three children. My oldest is ten. I think this movie,

471
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: I think, snuck up on everyone who isn't ten years old.

472
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: It is on Netflix, came out almost three months ago,

473
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: maybe two and a half months ago. It is on

474
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: track to be the most watched or maybe it already

475
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: is the most watched film on Netflix two hundred and

476
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 1: sixty six million views.

477
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: Definitely the movie of the summer as we're recording it.

478
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is the movie the Summer, I think,

479
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: which is weird because there have been a couple other

480
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: big Netflix movies before, big streaming things before, but I

481
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: don't think they've ever quite broken out culturally in the

482
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: way that this one has. And again it's not just Netflix.

483
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: If you pull up Spotify their global one hundred list

484
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: of top songs, you got what it sounds like, which

485
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: is number nine. This is a musical, by the way,

486
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: how It's done, number six, your idol number five, Soda

487
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Pop number four, and these gold bangs. So this gold

488
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: is a banger. It is like the hottest song right now.

489
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: It's on my exercising mix.

490
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: This movie is gonna make a fortune, and we have

491
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: a great person to talk about it. Sam Sanders is here.

492
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: He is host of the Sam Sanders Show, which you

493
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: should subscribe to if you don't. Just a really smart

494
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: cultural commentator. Sam, How you.

495
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: Doing, I'm good, y'all.

496
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 7: Finally got me to watch K pop demon Hunters, which

497
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 7: had been on my list, and let me tell you,

498
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 7: I was dancing in the living room with the dog

499
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 7: last night.

500
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 3: It's really cute and it's really fun.

501
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: All right, So Stacy, you wanted to just kind of

502
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: quickly summarize the premise here. I mean, it's basically in

503
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: the title they're K pop stars and they hunt demons.

504
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: It's like Nake's on a plane level, like obvious. Well, okay,

505
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: so there is a band.

506
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: It's three women and they are like born like demon

507
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: slayers and they slay the demons of the world with

508
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: their voices, which creates some kind of a network that

509
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: slays demons anyway. But that is also an evil boy

510
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: band made up of like five very handsome men who

511
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: are singing for evil.

512
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: They're demons too. It's an animated film. It's a musical,

513
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: and it came out, like I said, like back in June,

514
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: and I think it's snuck up on a lot of people.

515
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: It's snuck up on me for sure. Like I only

516
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: really became aware of it over the last week when

517
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: I was on vacation and my children watched it like

518
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: seven times in a row. But like, I'm kind of

519
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: curious when you started to kind of hear chatter about this,

520
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: like when you became aware that this was going to

521
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: be a phenomenon, that you were going to be talking

522
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: about this, you know, in a professional capacity.

523
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 7: At some point, the songs kind of crept into my algorithm.

524
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 7: I used Spotify mostly for streaming, and all of a sudden,

525
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 7: Golden began to show up. And for the longest time,

526
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 7: I just said, Oh, that's some new K pop band.

527
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 7: They always got a new one over there in K

528
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 7: pop world. Then I realized, oh, this is from a movie.

529
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 7: Then I googled a movie and I'm like, oh, it's

530
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 7: a massive, massive hit.

531
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: It really surprised everybody.

532
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 7: It surprised Sony, it surprised Netflix, and I think that

533
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 7: says a lot about how most executives in the entertainment

534
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 7: industry actually.

535
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: Don't know anything. They don't know anything.

536
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm this movie. I didn't know this going into

537
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: taping this, but like I guess, animated movies are really

538
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: expensive to make. This movie costs one hundred million dollars

539
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: to make. Oh wow, I've read that like it is

540
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: gonna be a billion dollar movie, and that's a big

541
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: deal because it didn't have a theatrical release. Sam like

542
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: people who don't pay attention to this business, like how

543
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: do you get to a billion dollars or a big

544
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: number for a movie that like I can go on

545
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: Netflix and stream for free. My kids are streaming for

546
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: free NonStop, Like where is the money in something like this?

547
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: For Netflix?

548
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 7: It's fuzzy math and they'll never tell us everything. The

549
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 7: biggest shift between watching movie and TV viewing go to

550
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 7: streamers as opposed to being in networks back in the

551
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 7: day and the movie theaters. Back in the day, we

552
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 7: had really distinct measures of how shows and movies did.

553
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 7: There were Nielsen ratings that told you that Seinfeld had

554
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 7: thirty five million viewers a week, and box office numbers

555
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 7: that said this movie made one hundred million dollars this weekend.

556
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 7: Netflix hides a bunch of that data, but what they're

557
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 7: hoping is that this movie being so popular keeps people

558
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 7: coming back and subscribe, and those subscriber fees will help

559
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 7: their bottom line. There's also an ad tier of Netflix

560
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 7: now that exists, but most people I know don't use it.

561
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 7: So all this to say, whatever hard number they give

562
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 7: you about this movie, it's less about that and more

563
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 7: about winning the conversation and being seen as the biggest, baddest,

564
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 7: best stream.

565
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: The subscription fees I mean is the short answer, Like

566
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: people like this and they keep subscribing to Netflix, or

567
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: they don't subscribe and they resubscribe because they got to

568
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: watch K pop demon Hunters.

569
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: I want to jump in here and ask you about

570
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: something you said earlier, Sam, which is that nobody knows anything,

571
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: which I think is really interesting. I mean, the summer

572
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 2: movie of the summer has always been this big deal,

573
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: this big deal in business too nobody hit it right

574
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: next Netflix seems to have accidentally hit it right, Like,

575
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: what's going on here? Why does nobody know nothing? Right now?

576
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 3: I will.

577
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 7: So there's a few things going on we are seeing

578
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 7: movie going in general.

579
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: Just go down.

580
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 7: There used to be a time in our youth where

581
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 7: on the weekends you would go to the movies even

582
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 7: if there wasn't a movie that you really wanted to

583
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 7: go watch.

584
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: Well, Barbie Heimer happens. Not that long ago.

585
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: There was the those of you in far between.

586
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, there are very few monoculture moments and movies anymore,

587
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 7: and only about twelve percent of Americans now go to

588
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 7: the movies at least once a month, and about a

589
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 7: quarter of Americans don't go to the movies at all.

590
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: Wow.

591
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 7: In the midst of this, these studios rely a lot

592
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 7: more on IP like Barbie and other things that folks

593
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 7: already know and will go see. And so if you

594
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 7: look at the biggest performing movies of this year so far,

595
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 7: it's all existing IP, How to Train Your Dragon, Fantastic Four,

596
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 7: Jurassic World, Superman, the Lelo and Stitch sequel.

597
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: So movie going.

598
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 7: Is going down, which means that movie studios rely on

599
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 7: old names that we all know, which means that a

600
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 7: movie like K Pop Demon Hunters, they don't know what

601
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 7: to do with it because it's new, and they're afraid

602
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 7: to take that chance and put it in theaters. So

603
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 7: there's also a really weird story about the way that

604
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 7: Sony and Netflix made the deal that put this film

605
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 7: on Netflix and not.

606
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: Any sam You want to just explain that.

607
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, So, as I mentioned on top of Americans just

608
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 7: going to movies less, the pandemic and that era of

609
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 7: lockdown really decimated movie theaters for a while. They're still

610
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 7: bouncing back, but they're not back to what they were

611
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 7: pre COVID, and they might never get there. If I'm

612
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 7: being honest, However, during that lockdown moment, a lot of

613
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 7: movie studios said, what can we do to keep making

614
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 7: movies and not close our businesses and not lay off

615
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 7: all of our staff. Sony ink to deal with Netflix

616
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 7: during lockdown that basically said we'll make movies, but we

617
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 7: know they can't go to theaters, so we'll sell movies

618
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 7: at a flat rate to Netflix that will then stream

619
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 7: these movies on their platform and then they'll get all

620
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 7: the rights. So K Pop Demon Hunters was a part

621
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 7: of this deal, which meant that even though Sony made

622
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 7: the movie, they were paid twenty million dollars for it,

623
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 7: and Netflix got all the rights and the benefits from

624
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 7: having this big hit.

625
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: Well the and Netflix paid to make it to paid

626
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: one hundred million bucks to make it, and then another

627
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: twenty Yeah on top of that, that was the flat

628
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: fee part to Sony.

629
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, yes, but that means that Sony will see

630
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 7: no upside from this movie. And even when Netflix put

631
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 7: K Pop Demon Hunters in theaters for one weekend for

632
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 7: a special sing along edition of this film, Sony the

633
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 7: movie studio saw none of that money.

634
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 3: WHOA to Netflix?

635
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: You know, there's been this debate in Hollywood. I think

636
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: over over some period of time, Sam, and I know

637
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: you're probably familiar with this, but like we have traditional Hollywood,

638
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: including a lot of like filmmakers and so on, who

639
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: feel like theaters are really important. Theatrical releases are really important.

640
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: There's like a kind of cultural reason for that, which

641
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: is like they feel like that's what a movie should be.

642
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: But there's also like a marketing argument, which is that

643
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: theaters are how you create like cultural moments, like you

644
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: can't have a movie of the Summer without a theatr Yeah.

645
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: The producers of Crazy Rich Asians turned down more money

646
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: from Netflix because the theatrical release was so important to them.

647
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: And Netflix has been kind of like the one saying no, no, no,

648
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: you don't need this. So so Ted Sarandos is the

649
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: CEO of Netflix at the time one hundred Summit in April,

650
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: which that's funny. I don't know what that is, but

651
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: it's an event in April held by Time magazine, and

652
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: he was asked about theaters. Just listen to what he said.

653
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 7: Folks grew up thinking I want to make movies on

654
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 7: a gigantic screen and have strangers watch them and play

655
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 7: for the the in the theaters for two months and

656
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 7: people cry and sold out shows.

657
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: It just doesn't happen very much outdated.

658
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of curious Sam, if you agree with that,

659
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: or if there's anything to what he's saying, and if

660
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: K Pop demon Hunters maybe helps make make the point,

661
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: because they did create a cultural moment in a kind

662
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: of an interesting and maybe arguably new way.

663
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

664
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 7: I mean, I talk a lot about the ways in

665
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 7: which Americans are just not going to the movies like

666
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 7: they used to.

667
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: It kind of makes me sad. I love movies.

668
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 7: I actually think that movie going does a lot for

669
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 7: social and cultural adhesion.

670
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 3: Like it is a community experience.

671
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 7: There are few feelings better than watching a really good

672
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 7: movie in a theater and then talking to the stranger

673
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 7: next to you about how it was afterwards.

674
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: I think it's good for like society.

675
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 7: So I'm sad that we don't go as much, But

676
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 7: I think that the trend lines are just inevitable. I

677
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 7: tell folks a lot. I compare movie going right now

678
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 7: to opera going. There was a time in Western culture

679
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 7: where opera was the most popular thing ever, and on

680
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 7: the weekend you went to the opera and at night

681
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 7: for a date you went to the opera and everyone

682
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 7: went to the opera, right, Opera doesn't not exist now,

683
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 7: it still exists. There are people who sing opera and

684
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 7: make money doing opera, but it's not nearly as dominant

685
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 7: as a cultural force. I think movie going in the

686
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 7: classical sense at the movie theater is going the way

687
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 7: of opera.

688
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: We're all just going like people in like over dressed

689
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: old people coming out of movie theaters. Yea, well, am

690
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: I going to be one of these people?

691
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: Do you buy the marketing argument? Everything you're saying could

692
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: be true, But opera or some movie releases that are

693
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: not necessarily big moneymakers could be events that like allow

694
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: a project to gather enthusiasm or excitement or whatever. I

695
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: think there have been a lot of people arguing this

696
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: is a way to signal to people like this is

697
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: a thing you need to see, this is a big deal,

698
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: like any of that. But you think that could also

699
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: go away.

700
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: When is the last time that happened?

701
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: Probably it's like Barbie the last several years.

702
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 7: But like those were things where Christopher Nolan as a

703
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 7: director is as close to existing ip as you can

704
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 7: get in a human being, and Barbie is a brand

705
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 7: that we've all known for decades. I really think that

706
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 7: as movie goes the way of opera, the own things

707
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 7: that will work and become cultural moments or things that

708
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 7: were already a cultural moment.

709
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: Before we let you go, Sam, I wanted to ask

710
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: you about kind of like what happens next. I mean

711
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: we were talking about the money earlier, like some of

712
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: the money's gonna be in sequels, right, there hasn't actually

713
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 1: been a ton of mercery.

714
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: I've not seen the last of Kop Team.

715
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: And because this took people by surprise, like they didn't

716
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: have enough time to like, oh really, there's some a

717
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: little bit, but not as much as you would normally

718
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: have for something like this, they're gonna be sequels. I'm

719
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: kind of curious, Sam, what you think the lessons are,

720
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: I mean beyond just like we're gonna see I'm sure

721
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: copycat type stuff. What are people in entertainment? How are

722
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: the smart ones thinking about this? What are they gonna

723
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: learn from this?

724
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 7: Like, I mean, there has been a decade plus of

725
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 7: movie studios relying a lot on existing ip to make

726
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 7: their money, so big brands that you already know and love,

727
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 7: sequel after sequel after sequel, but all the trend lines

728
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 7: say that this won't last forever. Most of the time,

729
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 7: when you extract all these sequels from ongoing IP, it's

730
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 7: diminishing returns with each sequel. That's happening with the biggest

731
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 7: franchises is in Hollywood, and so hollywoods about to face

732
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 7: the problem they actually need new IP. And you know

733
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 7: what K Pop Demon Hunters is, It's new IP. So

734
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 7: I think the lesson here for all of Hollywood and

735
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 7: all these executives is that they're gonna have to start

736
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 7: taking chances again because the trough they're feeding from is

737
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 7: eventually going to run dry. How many Jurassic World movies

738
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 7: can we put up with?

739
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: Stacy?

740
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 2: Don't ask that how many questions, Sam, because they answer

741
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: could be a lot.

742
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Sam Sanders, thank you for being here.

743
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: Thanks Sam.

744
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 7: To everyone listening. It's good for America. Go to the movies. Yes,

745
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 7: Please go to the movies.

746
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: Yes.

747
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: Co sign and be sure to check out Sam Show,

748
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: The Sam Sanders Show. I just listened to their year

749
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: interviews so far episode. It's great checking.

750
00:35:51,880 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 8: Out all right, Stacey, Max, I have a confession to

751
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 8: make and I feel like this makes me almost like

752
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 8: anti American, Like what I hope I don't get deported

753
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 8: for saying this, but I am not a big fan

754
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 8: of like a pumpkin spice coffee, and I feel like

755
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 8: that is.

756
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: One of the institutions of this. It's as American as

757
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: apple pie and baby.

758
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 7: Well.

759
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: I have something to admit as well, which is I've

760
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: never actually had a pumpkin spice latte.

761
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: We're gonna do this whole segment without actually trying one.

762
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: That's that seems harsh, but you have an underrated story

763
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: and it pertains this.

764
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, so pumpkin spic season has launched its

765
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: official and it is an economic force. The pumpkin spice,

766
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 2: which is apparently like cinnamon, nutmeg clothes little mix. Apparently,

767
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: visits to Starbucks go up by twenty four percent in

768
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: pumpkin spicison. People love this mix. Apparently you and I

769
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: are just in the extreme minority of non pumpkin spice.

770
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: But also, pumpkin spice is also what you need if

771
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: you're making a pumpkin pie, right or sweet potato pie.

772
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: I love, which is a delicious thing. Yes, so it can't.

773
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: Just be I like my coffee to taste like coffee.

774
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: I'm a purist.

775
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: I'm just glad that Starbucks has something to look forward to,

776
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: because you know, we were talking the other day about

777
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: the challenges that they've had, but yes, pumpkin spice season,

778
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: this is going to be great for them.

779
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: Well it is and it isn't. So Starbucks is possibly

780
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: now in a situationship with the pumpkin spice latte because

781
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: not only are coffee prices up like fifteen percent over

782
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: last year, which is enormous for a number of reasons,

783
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: but all the spices in the pumpkin spice latte are imported,

784
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 2: and so those are all being affected by tariffs. And

785
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 2: the pumpkin spice latte since two thousand and five when

786
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: it started being the price started being tracked, is up

787
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: by almost seventy percent.

788
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: Okay, wait wait, break that down for us. So how

789
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: much did it cost back in.

790
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: Uh, three dollars in thirty five cents?

791
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: Okay, now it is.

792
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 2: It's like around seven dollars and fifty cents eight bucks.

793
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: And that's before these tariffs kicked in.

794
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: Well, the tariffs may have slightly kicked in. I don't

795
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: know if Starbucks has been stockpiling pumpkin spices. One can

796
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: only imagine that when they saw this coming, they were like,

797
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's a very important thing, but you know,

798
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: if these tariffs get locked into place, all these spices, cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, like,

799
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: we do not grow them in the US.

800
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: So they're mostly coming from Asia.

801
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: I think, yes, India and Indonesia, and like the places

802
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: where the spices come from are all being hit by tariffs.

803
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: I find it funny there's so much political discourse right

804
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: now where you have sort of like Democrats saying these

805
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: tariffs are are really bad and Republicans say, no, they're

806
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: not bad, and it's like, well, we don't really have

807
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: to argue about it. You can just look at the

808
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: prices of certain goods and like they're going up, I mean,

809
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: and you can sort of debate whether or not that's

810
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: a big price increase with that's like a politically a problem,

811
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: Like there are a bunch of debates you can have

812
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: about it, but like the prices don't really.

813
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 2: Lie unless you think Max that coffee is the only

814
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: thing on the line here. I would just like to

815
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 2: pose it that pumpkin spice has now infiltrated almost every

816
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: corner of consumer culture. There is pumpkin spice, cup of noodles.

817
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: Oh god, there is pumpkin spice spam. There are pumpkin spice, doritos, slurpies, hummus, ramen, pringles,

818
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: cough drops, my personal favorite, cat litter. There's poppins spice,

819
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 2: cat litter. It's everywhere, everywhere. I mean, imagine the pumpkin

820
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: spice inflation alone. The economic impact is going to reverberate

821
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: earthquake style.

822
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: Through the we had. If we had like Scott Bessen here,

823
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: he would say, look, the President is just trying to

824
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: reorient the US economy away from pumpkin spice, and I

825
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: would say, amen to that.

826
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: You're all for it. You're not going to start drinking

827
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: pumpkins spice, lattes.

828
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: Or cat litter. All right, Stacey, Before we go, I

829
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: gotta just read some of the emails we got to

830
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: the A I think I met.

831
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: We got a lot this one, we should say. This

832
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 2: show was we had.

833
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: On Exitron noted Ai Hater, really awesome conversation about mentioned

834
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: it at the top of about sort of the ways

835
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: in which no matter how excited you are about this stuff,

836
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: there are there seem to be some real economic.

837
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: It's possibly very overvalued in a way that could crash

838
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: they and.

839
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Stacey, we got some some haters

840
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: listening to this show. So Rick wrote in complaining that

841
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: I don't use it unless it's forced upon me. Take

842
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: that college students, complaining essentially about the electricity, the water usage,

843
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: and like the fact that as a consumer you don't

844
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: always get value. Talking about customer service phones being converted

845
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: over to AI. He complained about doctor's offices, which actually

846
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: came up in another note from another correspondent I think

847
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: his name is Yoshin, but wrote in complaining about basically

848
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: having his doctor's office put him in touch with like

849
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: an AI agent and that feeling really interesting, Haley, Icky.

850
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: I mean, the most interesting note we got was a

851
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: sort of lengthy one from Josh, who is by his

852
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: account anyway, a Carnegie Mellon trained machine learning engineer, and

853
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: he's basically saying like, Although he wrote, well, I don't

854
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: always agree with Ed's approach to arguing against the current

855
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: hysteria gripping markets around AI, he's right about the fundamental

856
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: disconnect between hype and reality. I don't see this to

857
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: mean that there's no utility in LMS. There are clearly

858
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: are narrow applications where they provide value. However, the ROI

859
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: is highly suspect given the capital required to produce what

860
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: will likely remember as the twenty first century lies. Now,

861
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: I had to twenty.

862
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: First century Eliza look as in like Eliza Doolittle.

863
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: No, Eliza was a a like very early chatbot from

864
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: like the nineteen sixties. Okay, and I had to I

865
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: had to google that. But I mean again, it didn't I.

866
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 2: Was all in my fair lady, I was, you know.

867
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: But anyway, awesome emails all around on this topic, like

868
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: keep them coming. I think we really liked that conversation.

869
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: In particular. We're gonna, as we said on the other one,

870
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: we're going to try to keep coming back to this topic.

871
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: So so keep sending us ideas examples. Let us know

872
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: what you thought of K pop demon Hunters, what it

873
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: could tell you about what we can learn from Hollywood.

874
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: That's everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. Everybody's with an ass

875
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net.

876
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 2: Do you still consider yourself an AI skeptic?

877
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone should be an AI skeptic, especially

878
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: if you're a journalist, Like journalists by nature are supposed

879
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: to be skeptical of everything. I try not to use

880
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: AI because I think it's going to actually make me

881
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: a worse writer, and I think that everyone is kind

882
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: of melting their brains a little bit.

883
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: Well, you wouldn't want us to put it on the

884
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: show or give it a job on the show.

885
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: Definitely not what we should probably do.

886
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: The credits.

887
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: This show is produced by Stacy Wong.

888
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: Magnus Henrickson is our supervising producer, and Amy Keen is

889
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: our editor.

890
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 4: We get engineering from Blake Maples and Dave Purcell, fact

891
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 4: checks Sage baumanheads Bloomberg Podcasts Special thanks to Jeff Muscus,

892
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: Julia Rubin and Maria.

893
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: Ling, who are these voices. If you have a minute,

894
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: please rate and review the show.

895
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: It means a lot to us.

896
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: If you do, Max will drink a Venti Pumpkin spice

897
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: latte during next week's show. This will be enforced.

898
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 5: And if you have a story that should be our business,

899
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 5: email us at everybody sat Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody

900
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 5: with an S said Bloomberg dot net. Thank you for listening.

901
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 5: See you next week.

902
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: Resistance is feudal max check you will be assimilated, accept

903
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: your fate I would like to to think, uh, the

904
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 2: descript AI generated voices that contributed to this, including Owen

905
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: and Grace, they contributed to them.

906
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: They're not voices, they're just mathematical models. It's an auto computer.

907
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: They have to drink of spice latte if somebody reviews

908
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: the show, so that's that's interesting.