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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

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Speaker 1: one thirty two. Has anybody ever read a Marvel comic book.

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Speaker 1: Marvel includes so many world famous characters. Spider Man is

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Speaker 1: the Big One, Doctor Strange, the Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Hello, Daredevil,

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Speaker 1: Thor Black Panther, the X Man. I mean, it goes

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Speaker 1: on and on and on. All of these are creations

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Speaker 1: of Marvel and who created Marvel Comics, stan Lee. I

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Speaker 1: mean it, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Stan Lee is an American comic

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Speaker 1: book icon, a writer and editor, a film executive producer,

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Speaker 1: a publisher, was editor in chief for decades of Marvel Comics.

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Speaker 1: It's publisher, it's chairman the works. He is the creator,

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Speaker 1: the manufacturer, or the disseminator of all of those characters

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Speaker 1: that we grew up loving. Spider Man, my personal favorite, Hulk, Strange,

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Speaker 1: Iron Man, Daredevil, Thoor, Black Pants, or X Men. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it goes on and on, but that's not why stan

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Speaker 1: Lee is in the headlines now joining me out of

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Speaker 1: l A with a bombshell. Alan Duke hit me, well,

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Speaker 1: I've known stand for several years, and people know I

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Speaker 1: know him, and so sometimes when things happen in his world,

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Speaker 1: they reach out to me. And that's what happened. I

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Speaker 1: was recently uh asked for help by a young lady

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Speaker 1: who was hired by a nursing company to take care

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Speaker 1: of stan Lee. And it was rather disturbing text, one

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Speaker 1: that could not be ignored. So I started digging into it,

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Speaker 1: and what I found was there was not just one,

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Speaker 1: but maybe as many as six nurses who are making

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Speaker 1: allegations against Stanley about the first text that you said

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Speaker 1: was very disturbing. What's the content? It's high Alan, maybe

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Speaker 1: you can help me stan Lee. And then she named

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Speaker 1: UH an employee of Stanley tried to rape me. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The employee ripped off my shirt and grabbed my breast.

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Speaker 1: He said he would go to he would kill me

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Speaker 1: if I go to police. That was the disturbing text.

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Speaker 1: We've not substantiated that this actually happened. In another communication,

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Speaker 1: she indicated that she has actual phone video of some

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Speaker 1: of the some of the things to cooperate this. But

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Speaker 1: the bottom line is this unleashed a whole investigation that's

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Speaker 1: going on, and I will say it is not a

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Speaker 1: police investigation. Okay, wait, wait, wait wait, wait, wait, that's

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Speaker 1: a problem right there. If somebody has been raped or

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Speaker 1: assaulted in some other way and they haven't gone to police,

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Speaker 1: that's the kiss of death right there. It's it's civil especially,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're climbing this about somebody's super rich.

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Speaker 1: Alexis to rest check joining me with Radar online dot Com, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. What do you know? It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just one woman once this this one woman came forward.

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Speaker 1: I believe multiple women. I believe it's six more women

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Speaker 1: have come forward and say that said that Stanley, who

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Speaker 1: is years old, has okay, wait wait wait wait wait.

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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall l a psycho analyst, did you just

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Speaker 1: hear Alexis torres Check say that this man is nine

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Speaker 1: years old? And is I heard accused? I mean, how

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Speaker 1: is that physically possible? Well, it just comes. I haven't

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Speaker 1: I had enough to deal with this right now. I

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Speaker 1: gotta go get jacked up on a cup of coffee.

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Speaker 1: What now five years old? But Nancy, rape is about power,

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Speaker 1: not about erections. It really is, and it underscores that

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Speaker 1: not only if these allegations are true, not only has

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Speaker 1: Stanley been powerful in maybe appropriate areas and many aspects

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Speaker 1: of his life. But now he's been attempting to have

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Speaker 1: power over these four victims in pathological, maladaptive ways. And

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if more women come forward, and

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Speaker 1: if we learned that this has been going on for

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Speaker 1: a long long time. But you know sex perpetrators, they

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Speaker 1: they perpetrate more frequently as they get older, not less frequently.

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Speaker 1: The most common group would be men who mo less

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Speaker 1: little boys. I think on average there's something shocking like, uh,

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Speaker 1: five hundred and forty four acts against a hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty seven victims over the course of their lifetime. I

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Speaker 1: remember reading that stat once and I've never been able

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Speaker 1: to get get rid of that stat out of my

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Speaker 1: mind because it makes me realize with it with these

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Speaker 1: power crimes, that the person who commits them commits them

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Speaker 1: quite frequently. To Alexis to rest writer online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter journalist, Alexis, how did he get access to

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Speaker 1: all of these nurses? And these are benified nurses. So,

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Speaker 1: as I said, he is years old, so he has

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Speaker 1: had care givers around him for the last year or so.

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Speaker 1: His wife passed away. He's needed some care. He obviously

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Speaker 1: is still very mentally there. He has been working NonStop

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Speaker 1: his whole life. The movie Black Panther is coming out

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Speaker 1: this year. A lot going on for him. But he

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Speaker 1: has had nurses around him. We call them caregivers in

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Speaker 1: my house for my father in law. So um, but

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Speaker 1: you could call them. So he's had these nurses in

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Speaker 1: there taking care of him. So are these these and

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Speaker 1: their women that are employed by him? He has hired

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Speaker 1: them to take care of him. Oh, I thought they

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Speaker 1: were there to take care of his wife, Alexis Nancy.

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Speaker 1: They were hired actually pretty much the day his wife

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Speaker 1: died back in July. This is what's interesting to me,

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Speaker 1: as the nursing service was brought in because people were

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Speaker 1: afraid of how he was going to be doing in

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Speaker 1: the wake of his wife, who was also nine when

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Speaker 1: she died of cancer in July. So they were brought

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Speaker 1: in after she passes away. Okay, yes, Alan, how many

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Speaker 1: women are we talking about? I have documentation of as

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Speaker 1: many as six, and as Alexa said, or I think

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Speaker 1: it was Dr Bethany suggested more could come forward. But

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Speaker 1: these were women that were giving twenty four hour around

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Speaker 1: the clock care and in one of the communications with

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Speaker 1: one of the nurses. She writes that that f as

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Speaker 1: this incident happened, this attempted alleged attempted rape happened, that

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Speaker 1: stand thought it was funny that he was laughing. And

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Speaker 1: I can tell you from sources who know him, he's

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Speaker 1: not taking even though he knows that the allegations are

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Speaker 1: being made public. He's not taking seriously because keep in

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Speaker 1: minding and Dr Bethany, you can talk to this. This

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Speaker 1: is a year old man who's rich as you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, his movies have sold more than twenty bill

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Speaker 1: million dollars in tickets, so he doesn't have a care

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Speaker 1: in the world. His wife died and uh, frankly, Um,

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Speaker 1: he's not taking this. I mean, his lawyers are, but

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Speaker 1: he's he doesn't seem extremely concerned about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: To Karen Smith joining me forensic expert Karen Um. First,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Alan, in my correct none of the

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Speaker 1: women went to the police. None of the women have

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Speaker 1: gone to the police. In two instances. One of the

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Speaker 1: women said that she was threatened by this employee if

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Speaker 1: she went to the police, that she would be harmed,

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Speaker 1: and that is why she is being very careful, but

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Speaker 1: the it's it's out now and there's um there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a lot of discussion about it, so maybe they'll

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Speaker 1: feel more comfortable and going to the police. Are they

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Speaker 1: all US citizens, the ones that I've taught to, I

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Speaker 1: certainly believe that they are. This was This was not

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Speaker 1: your run of the mill nursing company. This was like

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Speaker 1: Serve bel Air, Beverly Hills and that area. This is

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Speaker 1: the the are seeing service to the rich and famous,

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Speaker 1: if you will, I don't give a flying fig where

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Speaker 1: it was. If they are US citizens, then they most

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Speaker 1: likely know about our jurisprison system and how to call

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Speaker 1: nine one one and what to do and what concerns

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Speaker 1: me Karen Smith. The reason I may sound irritated right

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Speaker 1: now is that by not going to police, there's not

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Speaker 1: going to be any forensic evidence if these allegations are true.

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Speaker 1: If they're true, this guy could very easily walk Scott

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Speaker 1: free because they did not come forward. What does that

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Speaker 1: mean to me? As a victims rights advocate? That means

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Speaker 1: there may very well be more victims because he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been stopped. I know the drama and the trauma of

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Speaker 1: coming forward. I understand believe me. But by not coming forward,

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Speaker 1: you make it possible for there to be other victims. Karen,

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Speaker 1: Why is this so devastating to the case because of

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Speaker 1: time We're dealing with time frames here now. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea if any of these victims um saved their

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Speaker 1: clothing or saved any evidence that may have. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure that was just that. That's actually where my mind

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Speaker 1: went when I thought about it. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: we don't know they may have. You know, if if

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Speaker 1: the one who alleges that that he ripped off her

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Speaker 1: clothing and her bra and and groped her breast, what

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Speaker 1: if what if she still has that bra? There's touch DNA, now,

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Speaker 1: Nancy be extremely critical in this case. Touch d n

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Speaker 1: A is skin cells. When when we touch objects, are

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Speaker 1: skin cells and sweat are left behind on objects. And

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Speaker 1: technology has gotten so great now that we can get

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Speaker 1: those skin cells from a perpetrator off of clothing and

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Speaker 1: other items. So if that is a possibility and the

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Speaker 1: DN analysts can find those skin cells of either one

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Speaker 1: of these men, uh, that fells big trouble, Big trouble.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about that? Alan? Are you sure

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Speaker 1: that none of them went forward? None of them have

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Speaker 1: gone to the police. Several of them have gone to lawyers,

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Speaker 1: and the lawyers have been exchanging letters with stan Lee's lawyers.

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Speaker 1: Now it would be the Los Angeles Police Department for

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Speaker 1: their particular jurisdiction, and I'm not aware of anyone who's

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Speaker 1: gone to them at this point. As as this, one

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Speaker 1: nurse told me she's afraid too, because she says she's

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Speaker 1: been threatened with her life. And the person, not Stanley,

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Speaker 1: but the person who made the allegation. I do have

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Speaker 1: copies of his his criminal record which shows he's actually

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Speaker 1: have has convictions for violence. What do we know about

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Speaker 1: any response from Leigh himself? His lawyer did send a letter,

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Speaker 1: UH calling the acknowledging first of all, that there was

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Speaker 1: a series of allegations and he said their faults and

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Speaker 1: afamatory and suggested that that that it was just going

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Speaker 1: to die out. However, I happen to know that that's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen because we have some very high

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Speaker 1: profile lawyers in Los Angeles UH that are now involved

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Speaker 1: in it. So he claims that all of these accusations

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Speaker 1: are false and defamatory. Is that he was speaking or

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Speaker 1: his lawyers that that is that is his lawyer uh

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Speaker 1: speaking in an email when asked to confirm and comment,

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Speaker 1: I will tell you that I know from sources who

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Speaker 1: are familiar with it. As I said earlier, that stan

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Speaker 1: Lee himself, um is not taking this very seriously. He's

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Speaker 1: ninety five years old, and I know after his wife,

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Speaker 1: who was actually someone I knew quite well, Joan Lee,

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Speaker 1: when she passed away from cancer in July, it was devastating.

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Speaker 1: And maybe Dr Bethany can say, what effect when you're

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Speaker 1: ninety five years old, you've been with somebody since like

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Speaker 1: n two, and she's gone from your world? What happens

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Speaker 1: to a ninety five year old man who's got his health. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a very good question, But I don't becoming a

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Speaker 1: sex predator as one of those, But go ahead, that's

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Speaker 1: just me. Well, I would agree. I think he just

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Speaker 1: had more access now that his wife is not around.

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Speaker 1: I don't doubt that he loved his wife and was

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Speaker 1: very attached to her, But being a rapist and being

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Speaker 1: in love with your wife are on two separate planes.

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Speaker 1: One has nothing to do with the other when you're

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Speaker 1: a sex predator, and so I think, unfortunately he may

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Speaker 1: have had access in other ways before she died. Maybe

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Speaker 1: when he went to comic Con, maybe this so called

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Speaker 1: bodyguard now turn manager, ex convict, you know, procured women

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Speaker 1: for him, and so the offending pattern just took a

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Speaker 1: different form. But I want to speak to the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's laughing about these charges and he thinks it's

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Speaker 1: not a big deal. We have to remember rapist typologies,

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Speaker 1: meaning there are three different types of rapists, and one

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Speaker 1: type of rapists is the man who feels that the

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Speaker 1: victim wants him and imagines that she wanted it all along.

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Speaker 1: And that's a part of how how the rape is

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Speaker 1: carried out with this internal dialogue or narrative or justification

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Speaker 1: of well, she wanted it all along anyway. So if

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Speaker 1: he falls into that that category, I'm not surprised that

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Speaker 1: he's not taking this seriously. Back to Alexi's to red

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Speaker 1: Chuck writer online dot com. Did the women quit or

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Speaker 1: did they keep working for him? And what about the

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Speaker 1: nurse agency? Don't they ask why do you want to

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Speaker 1: leave the job, but yet they keep sending nurse after

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Speaker 1: nurse after nurse. If these allegations are true, alexis yes,

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Speaker 1: if they can answer that Nancy, the the nursing care

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Speaker 1: service was was quit. The woman who owns it uh

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Speaker 1: left quit. However, I do have a text communication from

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Speaker 1: her to someone else, actually one of them, saying that

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Speaker 1: one of the alleged victims saying that every nurse she

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Speaker 1: ever said over there was assaulted. She says that now

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Speaker 1: but this this woman also claims that the owner claims

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Speaker 1: that she was assaulted. What I'm told by people who

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Speaker 1: were there at the time is that it was routine

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Speaker 1: for Stanley to walk around his house naked, and he

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Speaker 1: would say things that were inappropriate, like why don't you

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Speaker 1: come and give me a shower, and blah blah that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, and inappropriate things walking around the house naked.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what legal implications there are when you're

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Speaker 1: walking around your own house naked in front of a nurse, though.

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Speaker 1: I guess when you expose yourself to someone that in

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Speaker 1: your employee and they're there and you know that they're there,

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Speaker 1: that that would be a crime. So where does it

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Speaker 1: stand now? Alexis torres Chart reporting with rinar online dot com,

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Speaker 1: The legal ball has started rolling. These women have hired lawyers,

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Speaker 1: and these lawyers have decided to go after stan Lee.

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Speaker 1: They have started writing letters, They've contacted stan Lee's attorneys

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Speaker 1: and they are seeking justice through lawyers. And as we said,

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Speaker 1: they have not spoken to the police yet. It's not

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Speaker 1: to say that they weren't in the future, but as

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Speaker 1: of now, it is not a police investigation. It's just

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Speaker 1: lawyers speaking on behalf of the women that claim that

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Speaker 1: they were assaulted. Well, maybe I'm crazy, Um, that's certainly

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Speaker 1: been alleged in the past. But the first thing I

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Speaker 1: would do is the right thing, and that would be

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Speaker 1: to get my client down to the police station to

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Speaker 1: give a statement. Period. Now that statement is going to

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Speaker 1: be open for the lawyers, civil lawyers for Lee to get.

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Speaker 1: He'll have their statements. But if this is true, their

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Speaker 1: statements are not going to change. If there's more than

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Speaker 1: one of them, they have strength in numbers. If these

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Speaker 1: allegations are true, there's still time for a police investigation.

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Speaker 1: The statute of limitations is far from over. Let me

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Speaker 1: pause right now and thank our partner, our partners making

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Speaker 1: Thank you. A tiny infant, just two weeks old goes

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Speaker 1: missing from the family home. What happened? This little baby

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Speaker 1: is absolutely precious and when I look at her in

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Speaker 1: her little onesie and a little pink hat, it is

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Speaker 1: breaking my heart. First of all, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: the nine one one call reporting little Khaliah McNab gone. Eaton, Kenny,

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Speaker 1: I want to dress the emergency. I just woke up.

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Speaker 1: I don't let me up on the couch. Um. I

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Speaker 1: have a two year old and I have a two

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Speaker 1: week old. And my two week old is not in

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Speaker 1: her sleep on her past he's on the floor. She's

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Speaker 1: she's not in a sleeper, she's not here. I've looked everyone,

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Speaker 1: I looked under clothes and everything. What's your addressing highway? Yes,

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Speaker 1: thirty one. Do you think somebody took her? Ma'am? My

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Speaker 1: child said, My two year old said, she's gone, and

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Speaker 1: I want everyone in the house, so I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know another possibility. What LT number are you at?

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Speaker 1: Thirty one? Okay, and he said you were sleeping. Woke

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Speaker 1: up and she was gone, Yes, my my my two

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Speaker 1: year old came worked me here. That's that's thatch was

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Speaker 1: on account. So how old is she? Ma'am? Two weeks old? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Who else would have come in your house? I mean,

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Speaker 1: as far as I know, nobody would have came in

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Speaker 1: my house. My two roads has papa, but I called

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Speaker 1: my dad and I called my grandparents, so they don't

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Speaker 1: have as my dad's on the way her. Now, okay, ah,

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Speaker 1: all right, how long have you even sleep? Um? The

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Speaker 1: last time I look up with her was around I

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Speaker 1: guess five maybe, okay, so you were asleep since five o'clock.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even mean sleep on the house down for her?

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Speaker 1: After dealing with her, all right, joining me right now,

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Speaker 1: Crime Online investigative reporter and journalists Lee Egantly, let's go

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Speaker 1: back to the time the baby went missing. What do

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Speaker 1: we know about the disappearance? The baby's mother, her name

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Speaker 1: is Courtney Dell. She called nine one one to report

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Speaker 1: the infant, missy. It was around a six minute calls.

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Speaker 1: She said that her two year old child told her

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Speaker 1: that the baby was missing, that her blanket was missing,

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Speaker 1: with her and nothing else, and she had no clue

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Speaker 1: or the invocat they had of her grandparents. Her grandfather

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Speaker 1: lives a couple of houses down from them, and he

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Speaker 1: obviously was close with the children, and she said that

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Speaker 1: he did not have the children. He did not have

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Speaker 1: the baby. Her boyfriend, I believe, I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was her husband's boyfriend didn't have the baby. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the home as she will caught lawyer and child

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Speaker 1: advocate joining me Ashley. Long story short, it's a very

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Speaker 1: small home. Let's talk about the possibility of someone entering

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Speaker 1: the home and taking the baby. It's very very small. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the home is very small, and she could literally she

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Speaker 1: and the father were asleep on the couches when she

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Speaker 1: woke up, and the two year old came in, and

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Speaker 1: the two year old in the room where the two

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Speaker 1: year old and baby were sleeping right next to the couches.

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Speaker 1: So a very small floor plan of different rooms. Let

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Speaker 1: me understand, is the baby the missing baby Khalia? Is

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Speaker 1: the baby in the same room with them, in a

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Speaker 1: sleeper in the two year old room in the next

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Speaker 1: room with the two year old, and the mother and

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Speaker 1: father were sleeping on the couch you know, Karen Smith

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Speaker 1: joining me, a forensic expert not across the country. Karen,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Karen, I would like

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Speaker 1: to say immediately, because you're always looking at it just

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Speaker 1: feels better when you know someone is quote responsible, instead

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Speaker 1: of a mystery that doesn't make sense and you can't

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Speaker 1: fit the puzzle together that drives me crazy. Karen. The

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Speaker 1: reality is, I remember, and this has happened before. I

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Speaker 1: don't take any sleep sedative, no uh, claraton, no, no. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: At night on Christmas Eve night I was in I

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Speaker 1: fell asleep in the room with the twins. Okay. I

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Speaker 1: started waking up around four o'clock in the morning because

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Speaker 1: I heard my son, you know, moving around and looking

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Speaker 1: at the clock. I could see what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: I went back to sleep. I woke up Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: with both of them standing right in front of me

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Speaker 1: in the dark, at like six o'clock in the morning. Mom, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I mean they had apparently been trying to wake me up,

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Speaker 1: so it can happen. I was under the influence of

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Speaker 1: nothing but exhaustion, Karen Smith. So it pains me to

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Speaker 1: say it, but I think that it is possible for

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Speaker 1: someone to come in the home and take an infant

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Speaker 1: if the infant is asleep, without making any sound absolutely nasty.

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Speaker 1: It is. And I've had cases where that has happened,

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Speaker 1: and I think, back it up, Back it up, Karen Smith. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what you just said. You

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Speaker 1: said you've had cases where it happened. Frankly, every time

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Speaker 1: I have investigated a case like that, that's not what happened,

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Speaker 1: except for a few rare instances where a stranger did

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Speaker 1: come in the home unheard and takes a child. And

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Speaker 1: a perfect example is Polly Class, Mark Class's daughter. They

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00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: were having a spin the Night party for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, when a bunch of little girls there and

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Speaker 1: someone comes in the home, takes Polly, kidnaps her, molests her,

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Speaker 1: and kills her. It did happen. The mom was home,

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Speaker 1: nobody heard a thing. It does happen. But when you

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Speaker 1: say you've experienced that, you have seriously tell me about it,

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Speaker 1: because I've had very few cases where that really happened. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was a young girl and the uh, the perpetrator

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Speaker 1: came in through a window and took the young girl.

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Speaker 1: I believe she was six or seven months old and

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Speaker 1: ended up taking her because I think he was the

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Speaker 1: father and the mother was not giving him any visitation, right,

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Speaker 1: so he came in in the middle of the night unseen.

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Speaker 1: The baby was unharmed. This was not a murder case,

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Speaker 1: but it does happen. I think we've all been in

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Speaker 1: a position where we've just been so exhausted, so tired

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Speaker 1: just from day in and day out at ativities that

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Speaker 1: you're sleeping so hard you don't hear a thing, especially

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Speaker 1: if it's a larger house. This was not a large house.

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00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: This was a very small space, so that does come

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00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: in time. I mean really small, really small, you know.

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Speaker 1: To Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts joining me out of l A,

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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, I want to think this through. It's just

403
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Speaker 1: hard for me to believe that you don't hear a thing.

404
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: But again, I wasn't even in a different room on Christmas.

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00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: I was in the same room with them. I didn't

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00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 1: hear a thing. And it's a holiday, so you've probably

407
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: haven't been up night after night wrapping packages making sure

408
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: it's the perfect occasion for them. Are you serious? You

409
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: stay await till midnight? Stay await till midnight watching murder Mysteries?

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00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: Is that wrong? There too? Now there they can turn

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00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: away at the point of impact now and they never

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Speaker 1: see Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, we're up all

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Speaker 1: right watching murder Mysteries. Go ahead. Okay. So, so in

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Speaker 1: terms of this little to two week old who goes missing,

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Speaker 1: one of my thoughts is were there any non custodial

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Speaker 1: caretakers in the community, In other words, anybody who was

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Speaker 1: preoccupied with that child, wanted access to that child, maybe

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Speaker 1: a grandparent who was wanting to adopt. Because often when

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Speaker 1: when very young children are babies goes missing, well that

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00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: almost all abductions of children under the age of five

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00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: or at the hands of non custodial caretakers. So I

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00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: would look at that first, that possibility. And then you said,

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Speaker 1: it's a very small house, like a little teeny tiny house,

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Speaker 1: and the grandfather lives two doors up. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to assume that this is a neighborhood where everybody knows

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00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: each other, kids are sort of playing out and about

427
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Speaker 1: was there a predator in that neighborhood or a pedophile

428
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: who was aware of the fact that there's a newborn.

429
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: I would want to, you know, start closest to the

430
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: house and look, you know, uh, examine in concentric circles

431
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: further and further from the house to see if there's

432
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: somebody who may have been preoccupied with the family. And

433
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: then the third possibility, Nancy, you know, we've we've covered

434
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: these these abductions of children so many times on your

435
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: TV show. The child is almost always found within a

436
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: mile of the home. So I'm assuming that if there

437
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: was a murder abduction, that is not going to be

438
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: hard to locate the body. Well, you're following along exactly

439
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: with police thinking. They immediately looked at the grandfather and

440
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: other relatives who live extremely nearby. They were ruled out

441
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: those parents. Those grandparents and relatives get to seek lee

442
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: whenever they want to. Um, she can spend the night there.

443
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: The whole thing. No no barriers whatsoever to the grandparents.

444
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: And I remember growing up in a tiny house about

445
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: this size across the straight from my grandmother, and she

446
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: took care of us during the day, Lucy while my

447
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: mom and dad worked, So I get it. There was

448
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: no barrier with the grandparents seeing them. They were ruled

449
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: out very very quickly. In the last hours, there has

450
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: been a stunning development in the case. To Lee Egan

451
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Crime Online reporter, what is the very latest, Lee Courtney Bell,

452
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: the mother was arrested for second degree murder, second degree

453
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: cruelty to children, and contributing to the diplomation of a minor.

454
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: And the baby's father, Christopher McNabb, was already in jail

455
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: on first degree murder charges. So now they are both

456
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 1: behind bars for the baby's death. A grand jury indicts

457
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: the father of baby Khalia. The mother has now been

458
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: charged with second degree murder. And it is just as

459
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: police first suspect, you start at the very center, the

460
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: center who's closest to the victim, As Dr Bethany Marshall

461
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: was pointing out to Ashley Wilcot, it's when I listen

462
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 1: to her on the phone. You know, it was just

463
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: a few days ago that she called in the baby missing,

464
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: a panicked mom telling one about her child disappearing gone,

465
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: sounding distressed. Um just two weeks old, baby Khlia vanishes

466
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: into thin air. From what we know, at the time

467
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: of that call, when the mom was asking for help

468
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: the baby, the newborn baby was already dead. Ashley Wilcot,

469
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: I get and let me point out one of the

470
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: statements that she made in that initial one call that

471
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: you've played. She said, I have clothes and too, but

472
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I've looked all in them and she's not here now.

473
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: To me, that's something law enforcement probably noted and said, okay,

474
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: we need to continue investigating because that's a weird statement.

475
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: Why would your two week old accidentally or purposely be

476
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: in clothes and totes. It doesn't make sense. So she

477
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: did sound panicked, but she's saying some things that don't

478
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: make sense to me as a mother who cannot locate

479
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: her two week old. Infot she knew that baby was dead. Well,

480
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: what it hit me at the very beginning, and I'm

481
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: gonna go to the shrink on this, Dr Bethany? Is

482
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: that wrong to call people a shrink? It's it's okay.

483
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: I think that you've put it in our modern day lexicon,

484
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: so it's fair to today. Okay. The last thing I

485
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: want to do is hurt your feelings. Dr Bethany Marshall

486
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: l a psychoanalyst. When you listen to her one she

487
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: she sounds so calm, extremely calm, and I noticed her

488
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: hedging about, well could someone else have taken her? And

489
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: she never came out and said no, nothing like that,

490
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: or yes, somebody took her. Um. There was very calm,

491
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: very methodical, almost as if she was reading a script.

492
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: And believe me or is my dad used to say,

493
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: believe you me? That nine one one call is going

494
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: to be played over and over in the courtroom. Every

495
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: line is going to be dissected, and they're gonna listen

496
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: to it over and over because they'll have it in

497
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: the jury deliberation room. If it goes that for far

498
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: little Khalia, this newborn baby girl, how much would that

499
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: go for on the black market? Um? What sixties seventy

500
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: maybe a hundred thousand dollars to a rich family that

501
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: wanted a baby like Kaliah. Sheould have a different name,

502
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: different wardrobe, different circumstances, and about uh forty eight hours,

503
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: she could be across the country. But no, this baby

504
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: was ordered with blood forced trauma to her tiny head.

505
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: She hadn't even reached six pounds by the time. She's

506
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: a homicide victim. Dr Bethany she was so she's cool

507
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: as a cucumber on nine one one, And Nancy, not

508
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: only that, but she keeps she's so evasive. So I'm

509
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: listening to this one call and a few things jump

510
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: out at me. One is, I love your use of

511
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: the term hedging. She's hedging, she's evasive. There's so many

512
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: story holes. She does not fill in the picture from

513
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: the one one operator as to where the father of

514
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: the baby is, so it's very that aspect is vague.

515
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: And then a third thing stands out. She keeps saying

516
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: that the two year old says the baby is gone. Now,

517
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: that to me is significant because not only is she

518
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: sort of shuffling the blame off onto the two year old,

519
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: but she's treating the two year old as if the

520
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: two year old is a caretake caretaker of some sort,

521
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: as if the two year old is older develop mentally

522
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: than she really is. And this is what we see

523
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: in abuse of households, is that the parent blurs the

524
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: line between what it means to be an adult and

525
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: what it means to be a child. In other words,

526
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: they may beat the five year old because the five

527
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: year old hasn't ironed all the clothing, see, so they

528
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: give the child tasks that are developmentally ahead of where

529
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: the child is. So already she's placing on the shoulders

530
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: of the two year old that the two year old

531
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: has reported that the baby's missing. Now, I do understand

532
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: that the two year old and the baby were sharing

533
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: a room, but nonetheless, um, that to me is a

534
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: very distinctive feature of the one call. You know. Uh,

535
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the mother and the father, and of

536
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: course the first line of defense is going for the

537
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: going to be for the mother to blame the father

538
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: and say she was abused. But according to detectives, this

539
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: crime was planned, planned in advance. A detective say, they

540
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: have evidence. It's just beyond me, uh Dr Bethany Marshall.

541
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: How grown people could sit around and discuss how they're

542
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: going to murder a little baby, how they're going to

543
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: cover it up. And I mean the mode of death.

544
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: You know, medical examiners look for cause of death and

545
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: manner of death. Manner of death such as was at homicide,

546
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: cause of death in this case, blunt force trauma. In fact,

547
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: this little baby, just two weeks old, was quote seriously

548
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: disfigured and damaged beyond repair. In other words, what was

549
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: done to the child could not be repaired. What sit

550
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: around and talk about that? That's like sitting around having

551
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: dinner with Satan and builds abub talking about your next antic.

552
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you with a straight facing and

553
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 1: good conscience talk about how you're gonna murder a two

554
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: week old baby? Nancy. They hated this baby. They absolutely

555
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: hated the baby. And remember, in all the cases we've

556
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: studied where there's child abuse, often the family will hate

557
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: one child and love the other. And it's always so

558
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: hard for me to fathom. But somehow the two year

559
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: old lives and the two week old dies. I mean,

560
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: that's so strange. Um. Secondly, she could have gotten an abortion.

561
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: She could have dropped this baby off at a fire station.

562
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: She could have given it to the loving grandparents. There's

563
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: so many options. She could have adopted the baby out.

564
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: But they wanted this baby dead. And you know the

565
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: fact is she carried that baby for nine months. I mean,

566
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: there was this expectation of giving life to the baby

567
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: and then taking life away, and in the most heinous way.

568
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine bashing in the skull of

569
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: your baby, the skull when I was I mean, the

570
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: reports were that the skull was disfigured beyond repair. I

571
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: do not know what that means, but all I can

572
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: think of is malicious hatred. Joining me is a renowned

573
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: forensics expert Karen Smith. Karen, if the scene is processed correctly,

574
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: what are we looking for? I'm sure a primary, a secondary,

575
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: and at least a tertiary crime scene. That's correct, Nancy,

576
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: You're dealing with, first of all, the home. They're going

577
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: to go forwards, backwards, every single which way in that

578
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: home looking for any kind of forensic evidence, whether it's

579
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, this just makes my blood boil, and whether

580
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: they're looking for blood evidence, UM, any type of abuse,

581
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: which apparently it sounds like from reports they have found

582
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: evidence of abuse. Um, you have the secondary crime scene,

583
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: which is where the child was located, and then you

584
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: have all of the evidence with the child at that

585
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: crime scene, and that evidence, apparently from all reports point

586
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: directly to Christopher McNabb and now to Courtney bell Um.

587
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see what kind of d n A,

588
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: what kind of other evidence they found with that child.

589
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: And to think of a two week old infant damaged

590
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: beyond repair, is it? It is so hard to fathom.

591
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: And I didn't read anywhere where they had found any

592
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: kind of weapon, so I'm wondering what the instrument was. UM,

593
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: if they've done a forensic search for that they brought

594
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: out dogs and the dogs were unsuccessful at first in

595
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: finding the infant um, but a secondary search did obviously

596
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: find her. Along with all of this evidence, it will

597
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: be interesting to see how it plays out. What now,

598
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: Lee Egan, I don't understand why the mom is charged

599
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: with second degree and the father is charged with first degree?

600
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: Why the difference? According to Courtney's indictment, it says that

601
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: she too cause blunt force trauma to the baby's head,

602
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: So I mean I would figure she would get first

603
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: degree as well. They're not really saying yet why he

604
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: has a more severe charge. We are on the case

605
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: baby Khalia found dead, obviously um murdered, and the body

606
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: hidden in a densely wooded area. We've been waiting for

607
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: the other shoe to drop, and it has. The mother

608
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: is now charged with murder too, as we await for

609
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: her arrayment and court appearance. We want justice. I'm wanna

610
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,759
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611
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612
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613
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638
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: listen to this in the middle of the night. The

639
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: moment I heard this story, it's stunk. The moment I

640
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: heard this story, I knew something was wrong because when

641
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: police arrived to investigate the missing three year old little girl, Sharon,

642
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: her dad says that he woke up in the middle

643
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: of the night. He tried to give her milk. She

644
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: written take it, so we punished her by making her

645
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: go outside I think it was at three o'clock in

646
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: the morning and stand alone in the dark by a tree,

647
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: and then he goes suddenly had the earthe to go

648
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: do the laundry. Why is it when people do something wrong,

649
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: they suddenly do the laundry. I e. Scott Peterson and

650
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: so many others. I need to make a list of

651
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: that Jackie Men who suddenly turned neat nick after a murder. Okay,

652
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: so he didn't leaves a little girl by the tree

653
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: at three a m to go do the laundry in

654
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: an alleyway behind their huge mansion. Like Google Earth didn't

655
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: look down at it. It's a huge, beautiful home. This

656
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: guy and his wife live in. But there isn't a

657
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: little backstreet you know behind their yard that you know,

658
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: it goes behind all the homes yards, is a little

659
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: street back there. That's where he made the daughter stand.

660
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: So he goes out, he says to check on her

661
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: after he does the laundry, and lo and behold, Sharon

662
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: is gone on. Can you even imagine that we have

663
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: just learned that the autopsy a little Sharon is complete?

664
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: And yes, I said autopsy because a few days later

665
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: her little body was found inside a culvert not far

666
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: from the home. Did I mention the fact that this alleyway,

667
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: this pathway is known for having coyotes. Yeah, let's get

668
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: to that autopsy. Joining me right now, investigative reporter and

669
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: journalist joining us out of Dallas, Paul Chambers. Paul, what

670
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: have we learned from the autopsy report on this three

671
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: year old little girl? Well, nan Ceo. The balk of

672
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: information from that report is uh, you know, in the

673
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: hands of officials and they won't release it. Only the ruling,

674
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: and that is that little Sharon man Fews died from

675
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: homicidal violence, which means that someone intentionally, knowingly or with

676
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: criminal negligence caused the death of this three year old girl.

677
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: Now Dallas County routinely withholds autopsy reports, citing that they're

678
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: part of open investigations. But county officials have asked the

679
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: state Attorney General to make a ruling on this particular

680
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: withholding because of the nature of the case and that

681
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: it's really in the news quite a bit here in

682
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: the Dallas area. You know, Joe Scott Morgan is breaking

683
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: my heart. This little girl was just thirty six inches tall.

684
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: I mean, hold your hand at that, thirty six inches tall,

685
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: and she only weighed twenty two pounds. And I remember

686
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: Sharon Matthews, this little three year old girl. She was

687
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: adopted by this family, as I recall from India. Beautiful,

688
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: beautiful little girl. She looks like um a painting, these

689
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: big brown eyes looking out at you. And she had

690
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: been mistreated in India and had gone to a foster

691
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: home and they returned her. Everybody kicked her out. I

692
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: think she may have been death. So people had a

693
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: problem communicating with her. And she was so lonely that

694
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 1: she would sit on the bottom step in foster care

695
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: and wait for the case worker to show up, and

696
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: started calling the case worker mommy. I mean Joe Scott

697
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: at three years old, sitting on a step waiting for

698
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: your case worker. And that's who you think your mommy is.

699
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: And then they thought that all the prayers had been answered,

700
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: that she had this rich couple that was going to

701
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 1: adopt her and love her, and now she's faced down

702
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: in the bottom of a culvert just Scott. Yeah, you know,

703
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: uh heartbreaking. It's is an understatement. We had talked about

704
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: early on in this case, when you and I were

705
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: covering at Nancy, how we thought that maybe, uh you know,

706
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: he had put her outside and codies came along. Nancy.

707
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: I never thought that. I think we discussed the possibility.

708
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: But did you actually ever think that, No, No, I

709
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: really didn't. Based based upon human behavior, putting some baby

710
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: outside at three am? Whos a kid like this? Now

711
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: watch it? You remember John David went missing for about

712
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: one minute in the Baby zero superstore and I was

713
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: hysterically dragging Lucy behind me, running up and down the

714
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 1: aisles because my little l could run three aisles away

715
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: while I was crouched down at the bottom of the

716
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: shelf looking for organic sunscreen. Okay, you do remember that story, right,

717
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: And in the blink of the iso. Sum, naughty people

718
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: do lose their children for a few moments. But I mean,

719
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: that's a far cry from sending a baby out at

720
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: three am to go stand by a tree and in

721
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: an alley, Yeah, all by herself in the middle of

722
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: the night. And it was it was alleged at the

723
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: at the time that it was for punishment because she

724
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't take her milk, uh, that that was being given

725
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: to her. Uh. And you know, you talked about she

726
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: choked on the milk and all this other nonsense. What

727
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: we do know, though, UH, justice was characterized just a

728
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: moment ago, this is we have five manners of death, Nancy.

729
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: And when they used the term homicide or homicidal, that

730
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: means and let this sink into everybody in the audience,

731
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: that means death at the hand of another. And that's

732
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: the way we define it. UM. Now. While there is

733
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: no specific UH cause of death listed as of yet,

734
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: it's it's important to remember that they've gone so far

735
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: to characterize the manners being homicidal uh and relative to

736
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: that UH. And what really kind of what really bothers

737
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: me about this is that one report that I read,

738
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: they're saying that there is extensive decomposition, so that that

739
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: opens up in a completely different door as to how

740
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: they're going to pursue this case. On indto the Future

741
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: two Karen Stark, psychologist, I mean, let's just start at

742
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: the beginning. The story stinks from the get go. Yes,

743
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you wouldn't even send your dogs outside at

744
00:47:52,840 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: three am alone, just your way. But Nancy, that leads

745
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: me to believe it should we should all know this

746
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: that this is not an unusual punishment for this little girl,

747
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: if this is what he thinks is how to punish her.

748
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: And his story changes because first he says that he

749
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: sent her out to punish her. Later on he says

750
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: he was trying to get her to drink the milk

751
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: and admits that he felt for a pulse. He couldn't

752
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: feel a pulse because she allegedly choked on the milk.

753
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 1: So something this little girl was not being treated right.

754
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: Supposedly she was malnourished, and um, there's abuse that was

755
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: taking place I suspect before this incident. And to talk

756
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: about that, Paul Chambers, of course, I as a former prosecutor,

757
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: always love it when somebody changes their story, and I

758
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: found out pretty quickly prosecuting that if you ask the

759
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: correct questions, you might get embellishment. In other words, you

760
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: might find out more of the story. You might find

761
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: out that the bank robber had on um a pair

762
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: of gloves. You might find out that the bank robber

763
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: had salt and pepper hair, because you're asking specific questions

764
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: and those details may not have been included in the

765
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: original statement. But when the statements begin conflicting with the

766
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: original statement, then you got what we call a big

767
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: fat liar. Okay, So her losing her pulse after choking

768
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: on milk is far different from him saying I made

769
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: her go outside as punishment to stand under a tree

770
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: at three a m. And when I turned back, she

771
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: was gone. What do we know about his conflicting statements,

772
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: Paul Chambers and where's mommy in this scenario? Well, they're both,

773
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now in the Dallas County jail.

774
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: But on October seven was the date that Little share

775
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: And went missing, and the body was found in October,

776
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: And it was when the body was found as when

777
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: the father changed his story and said that she died

778
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: from choking on the milk. Now we do know from

779
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: testimony in November at a custody hearing for the matthews

780
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: other child, the four year old who is their biological child.

781
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: We know from testimony from a doctor at a child

782
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 1: clinic where Sharon was taken several times over a period

783
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: of a few months, that Sharon suffered various injuries according

784
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: to this doctor, of that we're in, uh, several different

785
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: states of healing. She reported to Child Protective Services this

786
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: doctor that Sharon was likely being abused, and Child Protective

787
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: Services apparently dropped the ball and didn't act. As a

788
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: matter of fact, the Missioner of CPS, Hank Whitman, is

789
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 1: already admitted that his agency dropped the ball in this

790
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: case and little Sharon was allowed to remain in the

791
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: custody of her parents. At least CPS I can tell

792
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: you they acted quickly when Sharon was reported missing and

793
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: they took the biological daughter away from the parents. Oh yeah,

794
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: they show up lick andy split when somebody's dead, when

795
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: the dead body turns out. I mean, but but Joseph

796
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Uh, how many times have you and I

797
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: covered dead children cases, murdered children cases, tortured children, cases

798
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: where defects did nothing time after time after time after time,

799
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 1: they get called, they come to the house or don't

800
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: come to the house, nothing is done, and the child

801
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: ends up dead. Okay, I gotta confess something. I had

802
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: a blowout in the airport over the holiday with a

803
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: lady that I heard slapping her child in one of

804
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: the bathroom stalls. Okay, I actually thought we were going

805
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: to get into a physical fight. I know, Yes, Jackie's

806
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: looking at me like what yes. So, um, and I

807
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: took the children to go skating um at Rockfeller Center,

808
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: which is always one of my dreams. So I superimpose

809
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: that onto the children and assume as their dreams. So

810
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: now my dream is to watch them living out my dream.

811
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: And um, Karen, don't bother to figure unravel that, you know,

812
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 1: barrel of snakes. But so we're coming back. We're coming back,

813
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: and get off the plane. I take Lucy to the bathroom.

814
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: John David is actually arguing with me, by the way

815
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: about coming in the lady's bathroom, just so you know.

816
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: So now I have half my body in the men's

817
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: bathroom most of the time, screaming John David, or you're

818
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: alive as anybody touching you. Okay, So it's quite the spectacle.

819
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: But anyway, this moment, we were in the ladies bathroom

820
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: and Lucy's right beside me, and Um, I hear a

821
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: mom yelling at a baby. I don't hear the baby

822
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: say anything, and UM down to hear slap and I

823
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: come and the baby starts crying. I hear another one,

824
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: and I head towards the stall. Lucy's going, mom, don't

825
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: get crazy, and uh there was an attendant with her

826
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: with a mop cart and all that standing there outside

827
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: the door too. And I said, did she just slap

828
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: the baby in the in the mock? Lady said yes,

829
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: yes she did. So okay, I looked into the lady

830
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: and we got into it for was fly And let

831
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: me tell you long story short. She stormed out of

832
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: that bathroom and I stormed out right behind her. I mean,

833
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: it was a scene. So what I don't get is

834
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: how defects It was a toddler, Jackie. It was a

835
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: little book. I think it was a little boy like

836
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: maybe the maybe thirty six inches tall, just like this

837
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: little girl. So let me ask you this, um, how

838
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: is it? Paul Chambers, investigative reporter and journalists joining me

839
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: out of Dallas that defects knew the child was being

840
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: abused and did nothing about it. Well it's uh, you

841
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 1: know they're saying it just slipped through the cracks. What crack?

842
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: I mean really seriously, how does it slip through the cracks?

843
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: You got a child being tortured at home? How does

844
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: that slip through the cracks? Well, they had that, they

845
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: had the report by the doctor at the child clinic,

846
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm sure a lot of these reports, you know,

847
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: get to relate to them every day, and somehow they

848
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: just didn't. As there's they admit that they didn't, and

849
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 1: they're trying to correct the problems. CPS has had numerous

850
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: problems in this state dealing with abused or potentially abused children.

851
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: And um so they've got this guy, Hank Whitman, who

852
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: was appointed by the governor uh probably about probably about

853
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: a year ago, and he uh is a very well

854
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: respected individual. He's been trying to change things and God

855
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: bless him, they need him times ten. So long story

856
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: short to Joe Scott Morgan, what does this mean? Homicidal violence?

857
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: Why don't we know? Was she beaten? Was she asphyxiated?

858
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 1: Was she stabbed? Why don't we know that, And how

859
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 1: is a child autopsy different from an adult autopsy. Well,

860
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: first off, let's let's talk about the trauma. Uh, let

861
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: me back up a little bit and say that based

862
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: on the one report that I had read, there was

863
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: extensive decomposition. If that is in fact the case, hopefully

864
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: we'll get the report in our hands soon. But if

865
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: that is in fact the case, um, we have to

866
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: consider that a soft tissue trauma like stab wounds. UM. Uh,

867
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: they're not going to necessarily present themselves if the body

868
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: is that severely decomposed. But I just can't see it

869
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: because the child was not down that long. UM, So

870
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 1: I have to think that something else is going on.

871
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: Now when it comes to something like smothering, UM, that's

872
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: a completely different kettle of fish. But if she was choked,

873
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: we could find hemorrhage and what are referred to as

874
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: the strap muscles. And if folks at home will just

875
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: kind of run their fingers alongside the sides of their

876
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: throat and down down to the center, the center midline,

877
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: that's where the strap muscles are, and we would find

878
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: hemorrhage in there. Um. Now, as you know, UM, I'm sorry,

879
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: I can't remember the last part of the question. But

880
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: the old autopsy different from an adult autopsy if at all. Yeah, well,

881
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 1: with the child autopsy, Nancy. We try to take care

882
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: in every single autopsy that we do. But this is

883
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: the rough. Uh. Children are not just supposed to spontaneously die.

884
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree on that. So they're

885
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: going to take a really long, hard look at what

886
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: what could have brought about this child's death. When a

887
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: medical exam or corner goes into a case, particularly with

888
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: the child death, we work from the assumption that this

889
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: is in fact a homicide to begin with. That way,

890
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: we don't miss anything. So there will be more extensive

891
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: dissections that will take place, they will be more testing.

892
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 1: So that gives me an indication that potentially, potentially they're

893
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: kind of playing their cards close to the vest on

894
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: this case, and you know, we'll kind of see how

895
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: how it how it spins out going forward. Karen's truck.

896
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photo of little Sharing right now.

897
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: Do you know she's wearing an exact little dress that

898
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: Lucy used to have. It's a circle from Target, and

899
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: it's got all these little looks like balloons on it,

900
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: pink and purple, and yellow and turquoise. She's just so precious,

901
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: And I don't understand where the mother stands in all

902
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: of this care and start. If the dad is guilty,

903
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: if how can the mom stand by and let this happen?

904
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: You know? I immediately start thinking about years and years ago, Nancy,

905
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: something that we had talked about many times, the Joel

906
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: Steinberg case where the mother was the head. Yeah, and

907
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: Hetta was as abused as the kids were, and the

908
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: and again the authorities, you know, they was reported to

909
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: child Protection over and over again, and nobody did anything.

910
00:58:54,520 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: And um, I think just in the same way that um,

911
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, the little girl would attach herself to the

912
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: parent that was the abusing parent. The mother is afraid

913
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: to speak up. And if in fact that's the case,

914
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: that's the only explanation I can think of. And the

915
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: outrage of knowing stories like this where there was a

916
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: concerned professional involved who did report it and nothing was

917
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: done for this beautiful little girl. We are on the

918
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: case as it develops. Let me give you a toll

919
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: free number for National Child Help Hotline one eight hundred

920
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: four A child one eight hundred four two two four

921
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: four five three repeat eight hundred four, two two, four, four,

922
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: five three Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend

923
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: one