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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Paul Manafourt, President

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Speaker 1: Trump's former campaign chairman, is challenging the actions of Special

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Speaker 1: Counsel Robert Mueller again. This time, he's accusing the FBI

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Speaker 1: of illegally searching a storage unit that held his business

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Speaker 1: and tax records. He's asking a judge to throw out

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Speaker 1: all evidence from that search. Joining me is Bradley Moss,

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Speaker 1: a partner. Mark said. Brad It seems like this challenge

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Speaker 1: has two parts, first the initial access to the storage locker,

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Speaker 1: and second the search warrant described the challenge briefly. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so basically this is a standard maneuver by many criminal descendants.

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Speaker 1: What Manafort lawyers are arguing is that when the FBI

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Speaker 1: initially went into the storage locker, they didn't do so

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Speaker 1: with a warrant. They merely had consent from someone who

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Speaker 1: wasn't authorized to give it. At the least, their argument

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Speaker 1: that this was a low level employee wasn't authorized to

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Speaker 1: give the consent, and that the therefore the fruits of

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Speaker 1: the search, the ultimate documents that metaphor us that Mueller's

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Speaker 1: team got when they went back and got a search

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Speaker 1: warrant after the fact, has been tainted and must be excluded.

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Speaker 1: They're also saying that the FBI basically misrepresented or omitted

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Speaker 1: some facts in asking for that second the subpoena to

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Speaker 1: actually go in. Correct. Yeah, they're they're arguing that they

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Speaker 1: went they went in and got far more records without

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Speaker 1: distinguishing the time frame of what was necessary and what

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Speaker 1: was relevant to the scope of their search, and that

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Speaker 1: they basically took everything that Mattaport had I think decades,

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Speaker 1: I think three decades worth of records in this storage unit,

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Speaker 1: was large storage unit having all kinds of business and

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Speaker 1: attorney uh client privileged documentation, and that Mueller's team just

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Speaker 1: took everything and therefore violated his Fourth Amendment rights to

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Speaker 1: expiasonable expectation of privacy. So this isn't TV. How often

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Speaker 1: does a judge throw out all the evidence from a

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Speaker 1: search warrant because of some of the of the allegations

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Speaker 1: that were made here. I think it's a very slim

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Speaker 1: read and very unlikely that Manafort succeeds h in its entirety.

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Speaker 1: There might be some areas on the periphery in which

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Speaker 1: he gets some of this pushed back. But by and large,

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Speaker 1: when the FBI went in, the employee who gave the

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Speaker 1: consent for them to simply look into the storage you

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Speaker 1: didn't actually open anything. They simply took a look inside

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Speaker 1: the unit. That employee was the one on the lease,

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Speaker 1: and that was therefore reasonable for the FBI to believe

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Speaker 1: that person had the authority to authorize to look in

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Speaker 1: even without that, and I still think that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to hold up. But even if that's not enough, there

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Speaker 1: is the exception of the role called inevitable discovery. The

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Speaker 1: FBI already knew that the storage locker was there. The

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Speaker 1: employee before they ever looked into it told them what

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Speaker 1: was in there. They could have very well gone back

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Speaker 1: at that point and got a search warrant anyways, So

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Speaker 1: the idea that this is all going to get thrown

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Speaker 1: out is extremely unlikely. This is a hill mary path

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Speaker 1: that force team has to try to try to aren't

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Speaker 1: weakend Mueller's case. But that's about all it is look

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Speaker 1: at the timing. Brad The Special Council's team revealed Thursday

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Speaker 1: night that they were using information related to the searches

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Speaker 1: for an ongoing investigation, and Manaforce attorneys filed this motion

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Speaker 1: Friday night correct and that that that Thursday night filing

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Speaker 1: raising some questions of what is the additional aspect that

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Speaker 1: UH filing by Mueller's team noted that it was for

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Speaker 1: regarding an investigation unrelated to the charges that have already

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Speaker 1: been leveled against Mr. Manafort, which of course everyone is

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Speaker 1: assuming but we don't actually know one way or the

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Speaker 1: other has to do with the original purpose of Mueller's investigation.

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Speaker 1: The question of criminal collusion during the course of the election.

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Speaker 1: Is that what this newest search warrant on March nine

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Speaker 1: was about. I think that's we're all waiting to find out.

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Speaker 1: But that has to be only raising stakes and raising

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Speaker 1: the pressure they're putting on Manafort to cut a deal

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Speaker 1: at some point, plead guilty and cooperate in Muller's probe. Now,

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Speaker 1: Manafort's lawyers are also asking the judge to order Muller

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Speaker 1: to reveal the identities of the accomplices who allegedly helped

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Speaker 1: him to lobby on behalf of Ukrainian officials, and a

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Speaker 1: detailed list of the allegedly false and misleading statements he made.

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Speaker 1: That does seem like information they need to prepare for trial.

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Speaker 1: But what's your take on it? It's called a bill

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Speaker 1: of particulars. They're arguing that, at least at the moment,

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Speaker 1: the bill of indictment is factually insufficient and that additional

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Speaker 1: information is required. I viewed the indictment, especially when it

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Speaker 1: came to the financial charges, to be more than sufficiently detailed.

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Speaker 1: But what's legally required. I don't really know where a

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Speaker 1: man of What's team is going with this, other than

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Speaker 1: they're trying to stall. They're trying to weaken and undermine

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Speaker 1: the case wherever they can, with whatever pre trial motions

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Speaker 1: they can, all in the hopes that in the end

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Speaker 1: it's become to politically controversial for the presidents and permitted

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Speaker 1: to continue and possibly he gets involved with a part

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Speaker 1: of well, so, Brad what At this point, it seems

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Speaker 1: like they're doing everything they possibly can to avoid having

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Speaker 1: him flip. But does it seem to you as if

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Speaker 1: Mueller is just not going to let this go? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see any way in which Mueller

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Speaker 1: lets us when it when it comes down to it,

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Speaker 1: if this gets the trial on the tax and financial issues,

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Speaker 1: Mueller has manifold dead the rights. And it's the same

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Speaker 1: reason the Gates the Richard Gates flips is because he

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Speaker 1: had them both debts to rights. They're absolutely going to

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Speaker 1: be found guilty on those parts. The question for Manaford

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Speaker 1: at this point is how much in this case he

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Speaker 1: can undermine on technicalities, how much he can weakend Mueller's

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Speaker 1: case to improve his own and him being Manaford, his

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Speaker 1: own leverage and negotiating position if it ultimately becomes the

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Speaker 1: point where he has to negotiate a plea deil. Do

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Speaker 1: you believe that they'll put off the trial date because

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Speaker 1: too much is happening right now? I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they necessarily. I don't think that judge is going

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Speaker 1: to really be happy with that idea. Depends on where

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Speaker 1: it goes. I think it's unlikely. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: with this investigation, you just never know anymore. You don't,

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Speaker 1: but we keep track of it. Thanks so much. Brad.

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Speaker 1: That's Bradley Moss. He's a partner at markets Ain. Google

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Speaker 1: collects personal information about kids on YouTube and uses it

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Speaker 1: to target advertising in violation of child privacy protection laws,

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Speaker 1: according to a coalition of child advocacy and consumer groups.

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Speaker 1: The groups failed to complaint with the Federal Trade Commission

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Speaker 1: today to investigate and potentially find Google billions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: My guest is Angela Campbell, director of the Institute for

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Speaker 1: Public Representation, Communications and Technology Clinic at Georgetown Law School. Angela,

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Speaker 1: what kind of information is Google accused of collecting? And

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Speaker 1: how well? One kind of information they're collecting a geolocation

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Speaker 1: that's the location where um, the person using the app

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Speaker 1: is located. They're collecting the telephone number, Um, They're collecting um,

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Speaker 1: what they're called persistent identifiers, which are unique numbers. It

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Speaker 1: could be like your I P address or a device

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Speaker 1: I D number that is then used to track the

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Speaker 1: person across where they came from, where they're going, how

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Speaker 1: much time they spent watching one video or another video,

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Speaker 1: and in collecting any all that information and creating profiles

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Speaker 1: so that they can better target advertising. The same thing

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Speaker 1: with children. I mean, that's the thing is on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: If children are on YouTube, they're gonna be treated just

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Speaker 1: like everybody else because YouTube says that you're if you're

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Speaker 1: under certain you shouldn't be on the site. UM, and

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Speaker 1: so that you know there's I don't see how they

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Speaker 1: could treat them any differently since they claim that you're

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Speaker 1: not they're not supposed to be there. But in fact,

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Speaker 1: they put on so much programming on the main YouTube

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Speaker 1: platform that it really is intended for children. And children

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Speaker 1: are more likely to watch programming on the YouTube main

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Speaker 1: platform than they are on YouTube Kids. So in its

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Speaker 1: terms of service, Google says YouTube as you mentioned, is

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Speaker 1: only for users aged thirteen and older. YouTube's add policies

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Speaker 1: don't allow targeting children under thirteen, and there's a YouTube

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Speaker 1: Kids app designed for children. Are those good defenses to

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Speaker 1: a claim under the UM Children's Online Privacy Protection Act? No,

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Speaker 1: they're not. UM. The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act applies

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Speaker 1: to a website or a portion of a website that

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Speaker 1: is directed at children. And there's just simply no question

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Speaker 1: that portions of many, many of the channels on YouTube

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Speaker 1: are directed at children. UM. The other way that one

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Speaker 1: is liable under copas if they know that, if they

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Speaker 1: know they're collecting information from children, which is clearly the

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Speaker 1: officials at YouTube. No, because they have, Well they're told

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Speaker 1: for one thing, by the these channels, but also they've

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Speaker 1: gone around and they've talked about how many kids are

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. UM, this is a big growing area for them.

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Speaker 1: They specifically packaged together about three hundred or so channels

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Speaker 1: that they call family and Parenting, But if you look

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Speaker 1: at them, they're almost all target to two young children

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Speaker 1: and those are all they sell advertising on that group

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Speaker 1: of channels on YouTube proper, not on YouTube Kids. So

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Speaker 1: what does the Children's Online Protection Online Privacy Protection Act

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Speaker 1: require Google to do or not to do as far

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Speaker 1: as children under thirteen are concerned. Well, what they can't

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Speaker 1: do is they can't collect any information, any personal information

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Speaker 1: from the children unlo and until they have gotten given

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Speaker 1: notice to the parents. And that's both having a children's

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Speaker 1: privacy policy, which they do not have, and also giving

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Speaker 1: direct notice to parents and then getting um affirmative parental

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Speaker 1: consent in a verifiable form prior to the collection of

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Speaker 1: any information. So those those UM notices that they put

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Speaker 1: up and signing the terms and services which you have

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Speaker 1: to check off, which I'm sure has a lot in there,

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Speaker 1: especially about YouTube is only for users at older that

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do it for the act. That wouldn't take care

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Speaker 1: of it. Well, you don't need to sign up to

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Speaker 1: use the app. Anybody can use the app or use

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Speaker 1: the yeah, the website. So I don't know because if

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Speaker 1: their children, they can't can't agree to those terms, right. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: how has the FTC been in the past about enforcing

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Speaker 1: COPA Well, UM, I would like to see greater enforcement.

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Speaker 1: They think that they do a good job. I think

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Speaker 1: I just saw one of the FTC officials quoted saying

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Speaker 1: they had brought like two dozen copper enforcement cases. But

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Speaker 1: of course the law has been in effect since the

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Speaker 1: or two thousands, so that's not a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: per year. Um. But um, you know. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I think this is an important case for them to

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Speaker 1: bring you because it will send a really strong message

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Speaker 1: and you know there. I'm sure Google is not the

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Speaker 1: only one that's that's doing this, um, but they are

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Speaker 1: probably one of the largest, so it's not the largest.

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Speaker 1: Some of the advocacy groups behind this complaint have targeted

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Speaker 1: YouTube in the past. Were they successful. Well. In two

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Speaker 1: thousands fifteen, um, some of these groups filed a complaint

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Speaker 1: about YouTube kids and the basis of that complaint was

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Speaker 1: very different from the basis of this complaint. Um, that

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Speaker 1: was based on what we thought was unfair and deceptive

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Speaker 1: advertising practices towards children, and so um. The you know,

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Speaker 1: I think the FTC took it very seriously. I think

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Speaker 1: they looked into it, but as far as actually taking

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Speaker 1: any enforcement action, no, they have not. Um. They still could,

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Speaker 1: I suppose, but they haven't. So there are there are channels,

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Speaker 1: whole channels on YouTube, choo chow TV, nursery rhymes and

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Speaker 1: kids songs and different channels. Is Google under cop us

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Speaker 1: post to not advertise at all on those channels? They

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Speaker 1: can advertise, but they can only but they can't target

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Speaker 1: advertising to children based on their characteristics. Their profiles aren't

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Speaker 1: just okay, Um, this is an appropriate time for this

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Speaker 1: to come, with so much on, so much intense focus

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Speaker 1: on privacy and the Cambridge analytical scandal. Um Angela, let's

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Speaker 1: just switch for a moment to Facebook and Um. Mark

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Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is appearing for the first time before Congress tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: What do you expect the the senators and representatives to

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Speaker 1: be asking him? Well? I don't really know, of course,

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Speaker 1: but I would hope that they would be asking him

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Speaker 1: about basic privacy protections for everyone. He's spoken about trying

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Speaker 1: to apply the the g t p R, the the

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Speaker 1: European UH privacy rules that are supposed to take effect

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Speaker 1: in May, to allow American citizens have the same kind

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Speaker 1: of protections. And I think that would be very positive

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Speaker 1: step forward. Um that imagine they're going to ask a

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Speaker 1: lot about elections and how, you know, how did these

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Speaker 1: ads get onto YouTube and what can be done about it?

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Speaker 1: Do you see the Um, we only have about a

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Speaker 1: minute here, but do you see the dangers to children

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Speaker 1: from the internet growing as more and more children go

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Speaker 1: on to different websites in the coming years. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's potentially a very dangerous place for children

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Speaker 1: if it's not you know, designed responsible. Um. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're already subject to so much marketing, but

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Speaker 1: but a lot of they are also such up to

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Speaker 1: a lot of really inappropriate content as well, which we

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Speaker 1: saw even with the YouTube Kids when we filed two

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Speaker 1: years ago, there was inappropriate content and there has been

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Speaker 1: more inappropriate content in recent months that I think YouTube

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Speaker 1: is trying to address. But be the way that they're

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Speaker 1: algorithms work. Um, you know, you might be watching something

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Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine, and then but will automatically recommend the

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Speaker 1: next video and we have the character doing, we'll have

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Speaker 1: to leave it there, Angela. But thanks for being on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. That's Angela Campbell of Georgetown Law School. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Law podcast. You can subscribe

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Speaker 1: and listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brolso this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg