Speaker 1: At some point something has to happen for you that
Speaker 1: causes you to wonder who am I really? And everything
Speaker 1: that I manifest and speak and do is it designed
Speaker 1: to fit out the people's expectations or does it line
Speaker 1: up with who I really am?
Speaker 2: I truly am so excited to be here tonight at
Speaker 2: the Auphian Theater in Vancouver with a dear friend, someone
Speaker 2: that I consider to be the utmost expert goat the
Speaker 2: greatest of all time in it space, like there is
Speaker 2: no one like doctor Gabel Matte.
Speaker 1: Could you say more about that?
Speaker 2: We've been talking tonight about worrying about how we're perceived
Speaker 2: by others, Yeah, and how that blocks.
Speaker 3: Us from things in our life. Where does that come from?
Speaker 2: Why is it that we're so obsessed and addicted to
Speaker 2: what people think about us?
Speaker 1: Well, it's a great topic, and I think in this
Speaker 1: culture it's a fundamental one. There's a wonderful Catholic monk
Speaker 1: and mystic called Thomas Merton who talked about how we
Speaker 1: live in other people's minds. So when we're concerned about
Speaker 1: what other people think of us, how they see us,
Speaker 1: perceive us, judge us, love us, hate us, we're not
Speaker 1: living in ourselves. We're living in other people's minds. So
Speaker 1: where does that come from? One of the needs of
Speaker 1: the human child. It's an essential need. Just as we
Speaker 1: have the need to be held physically, to be fed,
Speaker 1: to be nurtured, we also have the need to be
Speaker 1: seen because we get to see ourselves the way others
Speaker 1: see us when the parents can't see the child in
Speaker 1: the child's essence, in their child's well. The great psychiatrist
Speaker 1: and co writer with oph of Bruce Perry has written
Speaker 1: a book called Born for Love, and we're essentially born
Speaker 1: for love. It's a developmental need. And love isn't just
Speaker 1: other people feel about us? Is do they see us?
Speaker 1: And if they can't see us for who we are,
Speaker 1: for who we are because of their own limitations, and
Speaker 1: a lot of parents have troubled doing that, I certainly did,
Speaker 1: then the child wants to be seen in a positive
Speaker 1: way by the parent and then they'll change themselves, hide
Speaker 1: parts of themselves as exaggerate other parts of themselves, basically
Speaker 1: create an image that they want the other person to
Speaker 1: see because they can't see their vital person. So really
Speaker 1: it comes from our earliest relationships, where we were not
Speaker 1: seen for who we are. Had we been seen for
Speaker 1: who we are, we would just accept ourselves and not
Speaker 1: be so concerned with other people see us. So it
Speaker 1: goes back to our earliest days in homes where the
Speaker 1: parents actually love the child. We're not blaming the parent here,
Speaker 1: We're saying that the parents' own limitations prevent them from
Speaker 1: seeing their child for exactly who they are. Then the
Speaker 1: child will mold themselves into whoever the parents wants them
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Well, how do you see someone for who they are
Speaker 2: and not who you want them to be, who you
Speaker 2: think they could be, or just the best parts of them,
Speaker 2: Because what I'm hearing is that's what we end up doing, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, well that's the key question. And somewhere I
Speaker 1: heard you say that people love you, but they may
Speaker 1: not love you the way you want them to love you.
Speaker 1: And we actually have trouble loving people the way they
Speaker 1: need to be loved. We think that love is the
Speaker 1: feeling that we have for them, and that's certainly true,
Speaker 1: but it's much more than that. You can have all
Speaker 1: kinds of loving feeling towards somebody but be limited by
Speaker 1: your own traumas from seeing them for who they are.
Speaker 1: And then and Also a lot of parents in this
Speaker 1: culture wants their kid to fit in with the culture.
Speaker 1: Now that means you have a preconceived idea of who
Speaker 1: the child should be, and then when you don't see
Speaker 1: the child as the way you want them to be,
Speaker 1: you're dissatisfied with them. Another child will behave in more
Speaker 1: impetus to fit themselves into the parents' expectations. So it's
Speaker 1: it comes from this culture's incapacity to sue people who
Speaker 1: they actually are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about just the amount of.
Speaker 3: Moments there are in.
Speaker 2: Our lives where the person's trauma creates new challenges for us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that doesn't get healed, that then gets passed on. How
Speaker 2: do people in this room, how do we all make
Speaker 2: sure that we are people where that cycle stops, that
Speaker 2: we can break that cycle, that we can interrupt that pattern,
Speaker 2: that we can be the people in our families, in
Speaker 2: the lives of people who have children, even if you
Speaker 2: don't choose to, how do you become the person that
Speaker 2: changes that trajectory for your family?
Speaker 1: At some point, something has to happen for you that
Speaker 1: causes you to wonder who am I really and everything
Speaker 1: that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed
Speaker 1: to fit other people's expectations or does it line up
Speaker 1: with who I really am? And people get to that
Speaker 1: point and that's what they call them midlife crisis actually,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you start wanting whose life
Speaker 1: am I leading? Anyway? I certainly went through that's still
Speaker 1: going through it. Eighty one years old and still going
Speaker 1: through a midlife crisis. You know.
Speaker 3: See, you're not too old at yet. Twenty six is
Speaker 3: all right, you don't testify it. You didn't just flying
Speaker 3: that too.
Speaker 1: So but what I'm saying, Jay, is there has to
Speaker 1: be a questioning there. At some point you have to
Speaker 1: recognize that it's not working the way that feels good
Speaker 1: in the heart or in the God. So there has
Speaker 1: to be that recognition. Then there's to be a curiosity.
Speaker 1: Now you're asking about future generations. But the way we
Speaker 1: gift future generations is actually working on ourselves, not by
Speaker 1: trying to be better parents, but by actually dealing with
Speaker 1: our own stuff. That's the way we avoid as best
Speaker 1: we can, passing it on to the next generation.
Speaker 2: I think one of the ways the inner critique and
Speaker 2: that inner voice keeps us imprisoned. Is that it makes
Speaker 2: us believe we're only valuable when we're busy. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: only valuable if this.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute. The guy who just starts a thirteen
Speaker 1: city two in two weeks just asked.
Speaker 3: Me, you can't expose me on my own sh.
Speaker 1: Look, I just believe in my wife's in the audience,
Speaker 1: and she once said to me, buddy, you've written a
Speaker 1: book called When the Body There's No may better waite
Speaker 1: one called when the Wife Says No, precisely for the
Speaker 1: same reason.
Speaker 3: That's so good. That's so good. We didn't answer my question.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Sorry missed what you said.
Speaker 2: No, I was saying, yeah, I mean me included. We
Speaker 2: definitely have that belief that I am valuable if I
Speaker 2: fill in the blank. It could be I'm only valuable
Speaker 2: if I'm busy. I'm only valuable if this person says
Speaker 2: I am. I'm only valuable if I get promoted. I'm
Speaker 2: only valuable.
Speaker 1: I know. And we do have this idea that we're
Speaker 1: only as valuable as how we appear or what we do,
Speaker 1: but not for who we are. And again goes back
Speaker 1: to very early days, and I've often talked about something
Speaker 1: my friend, the Great trauma psychologist pioneer Peter Levine said
Speaker 1: to me a couple of years ago, and Peter is,
Speaker 1: I think a year or two older than I am.
Speaker 1: He's done an amazing work in the world. One of
Speaker 1: my mentors, and Peter said, if I ask myself, have
Speaker 1: I done enough? The answer is very much yes. But
Speaker 1: if I ask myself the question am I enough? I
Speaker 1: still don't know the answer. You know, And in this society,
Speaker 1: every very much program to identify our value with what
Speaker 1: we do. And it's very interesting when I talk to
Speaker 1: people about it, because people tell me I'm only as
Speaker 1: valuable as as what I do, And then ask them
Speaker 1: this question, do you value me talk about myself as
Speaker 1: a human being? And they say, yeah, of course. I say, okay,
Speaker 1: what if God forbid tomorrow I'd have a stroke and
Speaker 1: I couldn't speak, and I couldn't move, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: give anything to anybody, would you say to me, then, gobble,
Speaker 1: you're worthless? And they said, of course not. I said,
Speaker 1: then why are you saying it to yourself? Why are
Speaker 1: you singing to yourself that you're only as valable as
Speaker 1: what you do? So that there's this in a concept
Speaker 1: that I'm only as valable as what I do or
Speaker 1: how I show up. There's a tremendous lack of self compassion.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's yeah, yeah, please give it up. That's I've
Speaker 3: never thought about it like that.
Speaker 2: And the distinction you just made between those two questions,
Speaker 2: have I done enough?
Speaker 3: Am I enough? How do we learn to.
Speaker 2: Give a positive, genuinely true answer to the second one?
Speaker 2: How do we rewire when the whole world is telling
Speaker 2: us like, what you do is who you are, your title,
Speaker 2: your followers, your Instagram bio, your right the whole world
Speaker 2: is telling us that, how do you kind of even
Speaker 2: begin to re maneuver how the mind is being programmed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's I can't say that I've fully worked
Speaker 1: it out. But two things come to mind when I
Speaker 1: hear your question. One is, would you say to a
Speaker 1: one day old baby who can't do a thing? Would
Speaker 1: you ever say to them or believe about them, You're
Speaker 1: not enough? And of course you wouldn't. Then why are
Speaker 1: you saying it to yourself? Okay, So that's the first answer,
Speaker 1: And then the second answer is who's even asking? Who
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 3: Gabo?
Speaker 2: On the flip side of feeling like we only have
Speaker 2: value because we work hard. A lot of us are
Speaker 2: guilty or feel guilty for resting. If you look at
Speaker 2: the studies in the United States, Yeah, high percentages of
Speaker 2: people don't use their annual leave, and the annual vacation
Speaker 2: in the US is far less. I'm hoping in Canada
Speaker 2: people use their annual leave, yeah.
Speaker 3: Area.
Speaker 2: And in the UK we definitely use our annual leave.
Speaker 2: But there's that sense that we all still feel a
Speaker 2: slight guilt for resting. We feel a guilt for taking
Speaker 2: a break.
Speaker 1: I can totally relate when I was busy and we're
Speaker 1: call like filmly doctor literally and you know, I just
Speaker 1: delivered babies and look after pregnant women. I'd feel terrible
Speaker 1: at going on holiday with my family because somebody might
Speaker 1: give birth without me. You know. It's like you imagine
Speaker 1: somebody in the world is born without me. How's that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: How's that? How did humanity survive all those many of years?
Speaker 1: You know? But that voice, I mean that says I'm
Speaker 1: committed to that patient. I have to be there, and
Speaker 1: in the sense of guilt that I'm actually looking after myself.
Speaker 1: That comes from that same belief that we're not enough
Speaker 1: unless we're doing something that that lack of valuation of
Speaker 1: ourselves just for being.
Speaker 2: Yeah that I mean that resonates so strongly and so
Speaker 2: many of us are constantly challenged by it. Walk us
Speaker 2: through what's actually happening to the brain when we stress
Speaker 2: ourselves physically or get close to burnout. What's actually happening
Speaker 2: to us that we don't see the invisible effects. We
Speaker 2: know that we get tired, we get exhausted, but what's
Speaker 2: actually happening inside that we often miss well.
Speaker 1: So stress, by the way, we Canadians can be proud
Speaker 1: of the word stress because actually was coined right here
Speaker 1: in Canada in the way that we use it today.
Speaker 1: I don't know that, Yeah, I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't They was coined by another fellow Hungarian of
Speaker 1: mine called Iyano Shohan sally se l Ye, who was
Speaker 1: a physician and researcher who came to Canada in the
Speaker 1: early twentieth century just after the First World War, and
Speaker 1: he did his research on stress at University the Moreal
Speaker 1: in Montreal, and he's the one that showed in the
Speaker 1: laboratory the impact of stress on diminishing the immune system
Speaker 1: overgrowing the adrenal gland, which is a stress gland and
Speaker 1: ulcirating the intestines. And he's the one that stress. The
Speaker 1: word stress wasn't new, but the way he used it
Speaker 1: was new. He's the one who established it internationally. And
Speaker 1: the thing about stress is it's an essential response the
Speaker 1: life challenges. If you're confronting a threat, you'd better have
Speaker 1: a stress response, which means you'll have activation of your
Speaker 1: nervous system in a good way and makes you more alert.
Speaker 1: You'll have more adrenaline to give you more energy and
Speaker 1: strength to fight back, more cortasol that gives you more
Speaker 1: blood sugar to have energy for the challenge you had.
Speaker 1: In the long term, that's a positive and necessary physiological
Speaker 1: response of all animals. In the long term, those same
Speaker 1: stress hormones. And this is something that my profession and
Speaker 1: medical profession I only which would understand and practice more
Speaker 1: is that in the long term, those same stress hormones
Speaker 1: give you high blood pressure, constrict your bloodless, high risk
Speaker 1: of strokes and heart disease, thin your bones. You get
Speaker 1: the molt osteoporosis, suppress the immune system or can even
Speaker 1: turn it against you, so you get an autoimmune disease,
Speaker 1: make you depressed, put fat on your belt so that
Speaker 1: you're more a risk of heart disease, turn on genes
Speaker 1: that can cause cancer, turns off genes that can protect
Speaker 1: you against cancer, and cause inflammation in nobody. So this
Speaker 1: is what we all bring on ourselves, and people don't
Speaker 1: realize how because they've taken on these driven values of
Speaker 1: this culture, they're actually literally makes in themselves sick. And
Speaker 1: sometimes it takes an illness to wake people up. And
Speaker 1: I don't recommend that way you're waking up, but my god,
Speaker 1: it works that way very often. One of the Greek playwrights,
Speaker 1: Eschylus wrote in a play called Agamemnon, written twenty four
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and he said that the way that
Speaker 1: the gods created us human beings, that we have to
Speaker 1: suffer into truth. You have to have pain wake us
Speaker 1: up to reality. And unfortunately, too often it's the stresses
Speaker 1: that we impose on ourselves that then create pain, illness, dysfunction,
Speaker 1: and that then wake us up that maybe the way
Speaker 1: I'm living isn't the way I'm meant to live. But
Speaker 1: I hate I hate, I don't hate it. I regret
Speaker 1: that that's how people have to wake up, but it
Speaker 1: often is certainly I have to be dragged, kicking and
Speaker 1: screaming to the truth. I don't grab it here there automatically.
Speaker 2: If someone's sitting there right now and wondering gabble, I
Speaker 2: notice stress early. I can see it's getting worse. What
Speaker 2: do I do? Where do I start? What should I
Speaker 2: be thinking about doing?
Speaker 3: Changing? Shifting? If I want to walk out of here tonight,
Speaker 3: and I want.
Speaker 2: To really prioritize this because I don't want to end
Speaker 2: up with that long laundry list of pains in my life?
Speaker 3: What should I do? What would you say?
Speaker 1: Well, read my books? But well, I actually, actually I
Speaker 1: did mention the book I wrote called When the Body
Speaker 1: Says No, which is the whole point is that when
Speaker 1: you don't say no, the body will say it for
Speaker 1: you in a form of illness. In my most recent
Speaker 1: book that we've discussed before, the myth Normal, there's actually
Speaker 1: a whole chapter on this. And when I say this,
Speaker 1: this simple question to the inquiry that you just made
Speaker 1: for that person, I would say, we're in your life.
Speaker 1: Are you're not saying no? And by that I mean
Speaker 1: it's a nod that wants to be sad, but you're
Speaker 1: not saying it. Because you're afraid of how the world
Speaker 1: will perceive you. You're afraid that people will not like you,
Speaker 1: You're afraid that people might be disappointed in you. Where
Speaker 1: is there no that your organism wants to say but
Speaker 1: you're not saying it? Start with that, where this week
Speaker 1: did I'm not saying no? Where today that I'm not
Speaker 1: saying no? And that usually happens in two arenas of life,
Speaker 1: in personal relationships, it happens all the time in personal
Speaker 1: relationships and then work where there's a no that wants
Speaker 1: to be said but you're not saying it. Again to
Speaker 1: you that to know that you're not saying is going
Speaker 1: to be a source of stress for you. So that's
Speaker 1: the first question. Other questions follow, but that's the first one,
Speaker 1: Where am I not saying no?
Speaker 2: That's a great first question. Yeah, everyone resonated with that.
Speaker 2: That idea of where am I not saying no? That
Speaker 2: resonates so strongly with me because I think you're spot on.
Speaker 2: We all we were talking about that in the first half.
Speaker 2: We're talking about that inner voice that if you just
Speaker 2: sit and listen to it, But we're moving so fast,
Speaker 2: we're so busy, that that no can be really quiet,
Speaker 2: and it's like this little whisper that's barely getting.
Speaker 1: Well, that's small still voice that the Bible talks about.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: And there's a related question as well, which comes later
Speaker 1: in the same exercise. You might say, which is where
Speaker 1: am I not saying yes? There were times in my
Speaker 1: life where I had certain creative verges or desires, but
Speaker 1: I was too busy not saying no that there was
Speaker 1: no space for me to say yes to what I
Speaker 1: wanted to say yes to. So those two questions where
Speaker 1: am I not saying no? Excuse me, I just came
Speaker 1: back from a twelve these speaking trips, so my voice
Speaker 1: is saying no. You know, yeah, I like to see
Speaker 1: you at the end of this trip. But those two questions,
Speaker 1: those two little words yes and no, they're crucial in
Speaker 1: people's lives. They're small little words in every language. They're
Speaker 1: very short little words. You know German, nine, Hungarian, nom,
Speaker 1: Russian yet you know French No, really short little words,
Speaker 1: but they're just decisive in people lives. And it's very
Speaker 1: interesting those of you that have been parents, what is
Speaker 1: the word that your kids start saying it? One and
Speaker 1: a half no, put your shoes on. No, And you
Speaker 1: think as a matter of fact, I had a friend
Speaker 1: I've told this story before. I had a friend called
Speaker 1: Harold who had all called Ben, and we were medical
Speaker 1: residents at the same time. This is decades ago, it's
Speaker 1: like forty seven years ago. And Harold the father sister
Speaker 1: his son Ben, who is two years old. Ben, do
Speaker 1: you want an apple? And Ben said no, I want
Speaker 1: an apple. And what that's about is the is nature
Speaker 1: putting a barrier for the child behind which he can
Speaker 1: develop his own self. And before your yeses meaning anything,
Speaker 1: you have to be able to say no. And in
Speaker 1: this society we call that inner stupidity. We call that
Speaker 1: that terrible toos when it's perfectly natural. So we start
Speaker 1: with that word and then we stifle the inm people
Speaker 1: and at age forty five, they don't know how to
Speaker 1: say no.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because I feel like our mind convinces us,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're like this as well.
Speaker 3: Our mind convinces us that I can't say no, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, I just couldn't, Like if I gabble,
Speaker 2: if I started doing that, my life would just fall apart.
Speaker 2: I can't do it, like it's not possible. And our
Speaker 2: mind says, oh no, and I can't say yes to
Speaker 2: this because so we almost kind of fool ourselves.
Speaker 1: Well, we do. And the Buddha said twenty five hundred
Speaker 1: years ago in so many almost, in so many words,
Speaker 1: that with our mind, as you create the world. Now,
Speaker 1: if you've if your mind lives in the world where
Speaker 1: you're saying no threatens you, then you're not going to
Speaker 1: say no no. What the Buddha didn't say is that,
Speaker 1: which is more modern psychology, is that before they our
Speaker 1: minds create the world, the world creates our minds. So
Speaker 1: if you grew up in a family where you know
Speaker 1: wasn't respected, where it was seen as a sign of disrespect,
Speaker 1: disobedience something to be suppressed or punished, and your acceptance
Speaker 1: dependent on your acquiescence, then you will forget how to
Speaker 1: say no in order to protect yourself. So it starts
Speaker 1: off as an adaptation. Sometimes when I give my lectures,
Speaker 1: I play a song by Elvis Presley. Did you see
Speaker 1: that wonderful documentary by Pressley about Presley called The Return
Speaker 1: of the King?
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that one, but okay.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. He goes through this phase where he sings
Speaker 1: terrible songs where he gives upon his incredible charismatic energy
Speaker 1: and talent and just becomes a puppet in the hands
Speaker 1: of his manager. And then he does this comeback circuit
Speaker 1: and he shows up on stage dressed like a god
Speaker 1: in leather clothing, just the most beautiful man on earth,
Speaker 1: and he sings his raw, raucous, rebald, wonderful rock and
Speaker 1: roll and he is fully himself. But then he gave
Speaker 1: that up and he sings this song called any Way
Speaker 1: You want Me, That's the way I'll be. I'll be
Speaker 1: strong as a mountain or weak as a willow tree.
Speaker 1: I'll be anything that you want me to be. And
Speaker 1: that's how he ended up living his life. He ended
Speaker 1: up dying very young in very tragic circumstances. He's somebody
Speaker 1: who's raw genius was of world significance, and his energy
Speaker 1: was unbelievable and he gave it all up. Yeah, it's uh,
Speaker 1: and he paid a heavy price.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those stories and when we have hindsight, can be
Speaker 2: so powerful for us. Yeah, even if we're not living
Speaker 2: that life, whatever it may be, they're so powerful for
Speaker 2: us to look back on and tonight, I wanted to
Speaker 2: make this an extremely special experience because I want you
Speaker 2: to know just how deeply grateful I am that you're
Speaker 2: here today. And I've asked doctor Gabo as my first
Speaker 2: guest if he was comfortable leading and guiding an individual
Speaker 2: who wanted to go through his compassionate inquiry personally in
Speaker 2: this seat up here tonight. And so if there's anyone
Speaker 2: who's going through something, feels like they've been held back,
Speaker 2: feel like they've been challenged, who wants to before we
Speaker 2: take questions, would like to go through a process in
Speaker 2: front of the audience, he'd happily walk you through. So
Speaker 2: if you want to, just raise your hands and I'll
Speaker 2: have a look around.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for coming up. I hope you're not nervous.
Speaker 1: There's only a thousand stranger and thousands of strangers watching you.
Speaker 1: What would you like to talk about?
Speaker 4: I'm on your chapter on intunement attunemant, and I guess
Speaker 4: I would love to hear it from your point of view,
Speaker 4: because I think I'm really trying as of this week
Speaker 4: to stop trying to explain myself and rEFInd my instinct
Speaker 4: and listen to my gut, and I would just stop
Speaker 4: trying to be seen, stop trying to explain myself. Is
Speaker 4: something I'm really working on right now and something I
Speaker 4: want to pass on to my children and would really
Speaker 4: love to see how that starts. And I think you
Speaker 4: guys kind of gave a really good intro to that today.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you. So are you concerned about if
Speaker 1: you don't figure this out, that might affect your children somehow?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well let's start with the beginning. How old are
Speaker 1: your kids? You said one on three? Yes, And how
Speaker 1: old were you when your mother began to work on herself?
Speaker 4: That's a tough question.
Speaker 1: Well it was the answer probably, Now, okay, what would
Speaker 1: it have meant for you if your mother had begun
Speaker 1: to work on herself when you were one years old?
Speaker 4: It made a big difference, so.
Speaker 1: Um, you would know who you were. Yes, you've already
Speaker 1: given that gift to your children. Notice that, Okay, because
Speaker 1: you've already begun that work, you've already began to answer
Speaker 1: those questions, ask those questions, so you've got nothing to
Speaker 1: worry about. That's the first point, Okay. The second point is,
Speaker 1: who's the one who's even asking that question? Who's the
Speaker 1: one that notices that sometimes you don't follow your gut,
Speaker 1: that sometimes you don't listen to your heart. Who's the
Speaker 1: one in you that notices that?
Speaker 5: Me?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So you're already here, you say, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be myself. You don't have to try anything. It's already here.
Speaker 1: You have to pay more attention to it. Not that
Speaker 1: part of you that sees and asks. Can you check
Speaker 1: in with that in your body? What does that feel
Speaker 1: like in your body?
Speaker 4: Peace?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Peace? But you said it with the kind of
Speaker 1: a scrunched up face. Peace. Just checking again. I'm not
Speaker 1: criticizing you. I'm just noticing, like you're not quite ready
Speaker 1: to believe yourself. So checking again that party that notices
Speaker 1: and is committing committed to being you and is committed
Speaker 1: to helping your children be themselves? How does that part
Speaker 1: feel like inside you?
Speaker 4: Confidence?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Not noticed? How you said that with absolute confidence?
Speaker 1: What else do you need to know? Is there anything
Speaker 1: else you need to know? I'm asking you?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 4: How do you just be confident?
Speaker 1: You just did it? You know what you do? You
Speaker 1: check in with your body. This thing that I'm doing
Speaker 1: is called compassionate inquiry. It's the therapeutic method that I've
Speaker 1: held to develop, and we teach it internationally online. You
Speaker 1: can look it up on nine if you want to.
Speaker 1: But it's based on the fundamental belief that there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with anybody to start with, that everything, for example,
Speaker 1: you were disconnecting from your gut feelings was an adaptation.
Speaker 1: But that the tooth is inside you, and by asking
Speaker 1: the right questions, the tooth will emerge. It's as simple
Speaker 1: as that. And I think the audience has been witnessing
Speaker 1: that tooth emerging from you very easily sense unless you're pretending,
Speaker 1: which I don't believe you are. Okay, So just keep
Speaker 1: asking yourself. Where am I not saying?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Today? If I didn't pay attention to my gut feelings,
Speaker 1: not judge yourself for it. I didn't, you know, screw
Speaker 1: it up again? But huh, I noticed I didn't pay
Speaker 1: attention to my good feeling today in that situation. I
Speaker 1: wonder why not? What did I believe at the time.
Speaker 1: So just keep asking yourself, just keep showing up for yourself,
Speaker 1: which is what you're already doing. So I'm telling you
Speaker 1: you're on the right track already, far more than I
Speaker 1: was at your age. By the way. Okay, thank you,
Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Thanks.
Speaker 2: That's I really love that method, and I hope as
Speaker 2: you were listening, you were practicing it on yourself. Like
Speaker 2: I right, because as I was listening in there was
Speaker 2: a real sense of just how we constantly think we're
Speaker 2: not on the path.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we constantly think we're not doing the work.
Speaker 2: We constantly think that there's something wrong with us and
Speaker 2: something broken. And you were just saying, actually, that is
Speaker 2: the challenge that you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I'm saying that whether for you or
Speaker 1: for me or anybody in this audience, whatever you think
Speaker 1: is wrong with you, at some point served the purpose.
Speaker 1: So for Christina, at some point disconnected from her gut feelings,
Speaker 1: served the purpose of being accepted by the people that
Speaker 1: she had to be accepted by. It wasn't a mistake,
Speaker 1: it wasn't the moral failure. It was an adaptation. The
Speaker 1: problem is that the zerally adaptations then becoming ingrained, and
Speaker 1: that which was helpful in one situation becomes a limitation
Speaker 1: in another situation. But asking herself the right questions will
Speaker 1: get us back to source. If I may mention, I'm
Speaker 1: wearing this bracelet here and I was given this in
Speaker 1: Haida Guai, which is people in British gon't me know
Speaker 1: that it's a beautiful set of islands in the north
Speaker 1: of our province where indigenous people have lit for some
Speaker 1: like ten or twelve doosand years, and then it was
Speaker 1: colonized and they were treated terribly. And I gave a
Speaker 1: trauma workshop up there a year and a half ago,
Speaker 1: and an elderly woman came up to me, and I've
Speaker 1: told this story before. She was so ashamed of herself
Speaker 1: because she forgot her native tribal national language. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: what happened to you? And I was giving this bracelet
Speaker 1: at that workshop, and what happen? She went to Resi
Speaker 1: Residential School, where indigenous people had to surrender their children
Speaker 1: to the state and to the church, and she made
Speaker 1: the mistake of speaking her native tongue, at which point
Speaker 1: they took a stake and they beat her. Wow, her
Speaker 1: forgetting her language at that point saved her life. And
Speaker 1: then she was ashamed. I didn't fight back. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: you were five years old. Could you escape?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Could you ask for help?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: What would happen if you fought back? They might have
Speaker 1: killed me. So not fighting back, what she's judging herself
Speaker 1: as cowardice was actually her organism's wisdom. To save her life.
Speaker 1: And what I'm saying is that all these things in
Speaker 1: ourselves that's an extreme example, but all these things in
Speaker 1: ourselves that we beray ourselves for, judge ourselves for, criticize
Speaker 1: ourselves for they began as adaptations, need to be very
Speaker 1: kind to ourselves. And that's why I'm saying compassionate inquiry.
Speaker 1: And there's a spiritual teacher who says that only when
Speaker 1: compassion is present will people allow themselves to see the truth. Well,
Speaker 1: that compassion needs to be extended to ourselves and then
Speaker 1: we can extend it to others as well.
Speaker 2: It's so yeah, it's so powerful for me to hear
Speaker 2: that from you, because I think we're so good at
Speaker 2: saying oh god, the last three years, we're just a
Speaker 2: waste of time. But now I figured it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, all that job that I was in ten
Speaker 2: years ago, I just I should have left it earlier.
Speaker 2: You know, that relationship we're so good at and as
Speaker 2: you said, and just saying oh, that was a waste
Speaker 2: of time, and it's almost like, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 2: it wasn't ideal, it wasn't help, it wasn't easy, it
Speaker 2: wasn't comfortable, It wasn't nice.
Speaker 6: But.
Speaker 3: It's aided you, it's helped you, it served you, and
Speaker 3: you're so right that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what the great German philosopher nietzschee he
Speaker 1: said ones that we I'm fair phrasing him, but he said,
Speaker 1: we talked about these dead ends that we went down.
Speaker 1: He said, they're they're no dead ends. We just found
Speaker 1: out that that wasn't the way to go, so we
Speaker 1: didn't waste any time. Thomas Edison said he was once asked,
Speaker 1: what is it what did it feel like to have
Speaker 1: failed one thousand and nine and ninety nine times to
Speaker 1: build a light bulb until you finally got it, and
Speaker 1: he said, I didn't fail one thousand and nine and
Speaker 1: nine times to build a light bulb. I found out
Speaker 1: that there was one thousand and nine or ninety nine
Speaker 1: ames not to build a light bulb. And so much
Speaker 1: for our dead ends and our mistakes and all these things.
Speaker 1: Do that, you know, we have to do it to
Speaker 1: find out to find out a reality, that's all.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wanted to give you all an opportunity this evening
Speaker 2: to ask questions to doctor Gable Matte, as we have
Speaker 2: him here for the last few moments. If you would
Speaker 2: like to ask a question. I'm going to come out
Speaker 2: into the audience and hand you a mic. So raise
Speaker 2: your hands and I'm going to come and find you. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: keep them race.
Speaker 7: I can see you even as an adult in my
Speaker 7: experience of working with many different people in marketing and business,
Speaker 7: and when you say no to someone right away, whether
Speaker 7: you have a reason to, people abruptly shut down. They
Speaker 7: don't hear what comes after the no. So what I've
Speaker 7: been doing with my children, I'm also a school counselor,
Speaker 7: so I talk about diplomatically saying no, saying like, do
Speaker 7: just that pause moment for you to share your no
Speaker 7: without saying no right away.
Speaker 8: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 1: Eckart Toole, who's another Vancouver based teacher, internationally very well known,
Speaker 1: I'm sure very well known to this audience. He talks
Speaker 1: about a high quality no. So there is that's kind
Speaker 1: of an automatic, resentful, reactive no, which doesn't get across,
Speaker 1: it just creates more resistance. Or there's a high quality
Speaker 1: no where you're really honoring yourself and you're not making
Speaker 1: the other person wrong. You're just saying no. That does
Speaker 1: not work for me, and I will not do that
Speaker 1: and if you can't accept that, it's not my problem.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that answers your question, but that's
Speaker 1: what comes up for me. And by the way, I thought,
Speaker 1: I heard you say that you had cancer at some point. Well,
Speaker 1: in my view not that's one of your body's way
Speaker 1: of saying no is through illness, you know, and I've
Speaker 1: seen that all the time.
Speaker 8: So my question is, as an Indigenous person who's had
Speaker 8: family that I went to residential school. As I get
Speaker 8: more serious to my partner we're talking about children, how
Speaker 8: do I know if I'm healed enough cannot pass.
Speaker 3: On that trauma.
Speaker 1: Well, some friends of mine who made a film about
Speaker 1: my work called The Wisdom of Trauma, or just releasing
Speaker 1: a film this month. It's called The Eternal Song, and
Speaker 1: it's about indigenous wisdom around the world and what they
Speaker 1: and they came to Hidaguai, they came to Northern Britshcondia, Africa,
Speaker 1: South America, Australia and New Zealand. They spoke everywhere to
Speaker 1: indigenous people, and the Eternal Song, the universal message everywhere
Speaker 1: is about the importance of learning from the heart and
Speaker 1: unity with nature, unity with the whole world. And when
Speaker 1: I speak in indigenous communities here in Canada. What I
Speaker 1: stress is that your own traditions that they try to
Speaker 1: they try to kill in you. And you know, one
Speaker 1: Canadian politician said about the residential schools that the intention
Speaker 1: is to drive the Indian out of the Indian. So
Speaker 1: when you ask me hard or not to pass it
Speaker 1: on to your kids, I say, first of all, as
Speaker 1: I've said before, working on your own trauma, but also
Speaker 1: as much as possible, connect with that deep wisdom and
Speaker 1: your own traditions that would be so official, not just
Speaker 1: for your people, but for the whole society. And I
Speaker 1: think it's one of the tragedies of modern civilization. I've
Speaker 1: just did it speaking to in Australia. In Australia, they've
Speaker 1: been indigenous people for sixty thousand years, a continuous culture
Speaker 1: for sixty thousand years. Canada is not two hundred years
Speaker 1: old here. Do you think in sixty thousand years that
Speaker 1: might have learned a few things? Do you think in
Speaker 1: sixty thousand years there over there or your people here
Speaker 1: might have learned a few things that would be worthwhile
Speaker 1: for the rest of us to learn. So what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: respectfully in response to your question is deal with your
Speaker 1: traumas working through, but also go back to your own wisdom,
Speaker 1: because there's so much there that is healing. The unity,
Speaker 1: the chanting, the drumming, the dancing, the sun dancing, the
Speaker 1: cedar brushing, the what do you call the smoke that
Speaker 1: you a certain plant? You know that the sweat largest
Speaker 1: There's so much there. So combine modern trauma work with
Speaker 1: your own traditions, and I think you'll have the perfect brew.
Speaker 1: That's my best advice to you. Thank you.
Speaker 5: So I'm just wondering how, relating actually to your previous conversation,
Speaker 5: how does one balances the desire to self improve and
Speaker 5: self acceptance.
Speaker 1: You see some kind of a contradiction between what you
Speaker 1: call self improvement and self acceptance. Can you see it?
Speaker 1: Tell me a bit more about that. What is the
Speaker 1: contradiction that you're perceiving there?
Speaker 8: The way I see it is.
Speaker 5: For you to want to improve in the first place,
Speaker 5: you might see maybe yourself as not enough in some
Speaker 5: situation or facets.
Speaker 1: And that's true. If you working on self improvement, you're
Speaker 1: making some kind of an accusation against yourself. But ah,
Speaker 1: but if you just put the two together as how
Speaker 1: can I reach my full potential, and I shoul yourself
Speaker 1: that question, then there's no contradiction. How can I reach
Speaker 1: my full potential? And what is keeping me for my
Speaker 1: full potential? There's no accusation in that, there's no self
Speaker 1: judgment in that, there's no self rejection in that. It's
Speaker 1: just as how can I reach my full potential? And
Speaker 1: that is a lifelong process, but it's a beautiful one
Speaker 1: and there's no contradiction in it. I hope that answers
Speaker 1: your question.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
Speaker 6: Hi, I've been on a similar journey Kinnel as Jay Shatty,
Speaker 6: I grew into wanting to help people since a really
Speaker 6: young age. I've always wanted to just be there for
Speaker 6: my friends, for my family, and I think one of
Speaker 6: the things that I've been that have limited me a
Speaker 6: bit is just feeling too young to help people, to
Speaker 6: give guidance or to you know, just and yeah, I
Speaker 6: recently started a YouTube channel, and like I was saying,
Speaker 6: I feel like there's just a lot of things for
Speaker 6: me to still learn, and I feel sometimes too young
Speaker 6: to be spreading out whatever it is that I know.
Speaker 6: And like what we were talking about earlier, like feeling
Speaker 6: like I'm gonna be judged or be looked at as like,
Speaker 6: what do you know? You know, but I'm twenty two
Speaker 6: years old, so I do feel really really young still,
Speaker 6: and yeah, and so I guess just my question would be,
Speaker 6: how do I how do I, I guess, tap into
Speaker 6: that wisdom that I have without feeling like it's not enough.
Speaker 1: What I heard you say is that you feel that
Speaker 1: you're too young, and you have a fear that other
Speaker 1: people would judge you as too immature, as just not
Speaker 1: ready to make a contribution. That's what I heard you say. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: I can think of lots of people at age twenty
Speaker 1: two who were recognized geniuses by the time they were
Speaker 1: twenty two. Mozart was one of them.
Speaker 4: You know, he was.
Speaker 1: Composing stuff when he was eleven years old, you know,
Speaker 1: So that ages got nothing to do with it. That's
Speaker 1: the first point. Second point is when you say I
Speaker 1: feel I'm too young, that's not a feeling. Feelings are
Speaker 1: I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm sad, I'm angry. Those are feelings.
Speaker 1: I am too young is not a feeling, it's a belief. Okay,
Speaker 1: can you see the distinction. Okay, if a friend of yours,
Speaker 1: Like I aged twenty two, I was at university and
Speaker 1: I was writing columns for the student newspaper. Would you
Speaker 1: have come to see Would you have come to me
Speaker 1: and say gob or you're just twenty two, you're too
Speaker 1: young to write anything? Would you have said that to me?
Speaker 1: How come you wouldn't have said that?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 6: I think, well, one of the I think one of
Speaker 6: the things that I see is that, like we were
Speaker 6: talking about earlier, too, I.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait, I'm just asking a
Speaker 1: simple question. You're twenty two and you're saying yourself, I'm
Speaker 1: too young. But you would not said that to me
Speaker 1: at age twenty two. I didn't have YouTube. There wasn't
Speaker 1: YouTube then, what there was a newspaper that I wrote for.
Speaker 1: Why would you have not said to me? God? Are
Speaker 1: you too young to do this? How come.
Speaker 6: Because you're not me?
Speaker 1: Oh so there's different rules for you and me? Is
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 6: But I think I would just automatically think that you're good.
Speaker 1: Well, here's what I'm thinking. Are you willing to apply
Speaker 1: the same rules to both of us? Yeah, then just
Speaker 1: apply the same rule to yourself. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: Even if a friend of yours who's your age, said Hey,
Speaker 1: I got this idea of a YouTube channel and make
Speaker 1: a contribution and express myself. And when what you said
Speaker 1: to them, Hey you're too young. Okay, So again, notice
Speaker 1: what I referred to before as the lack of self compassion,
Speaker 1: and just notice it now. Don't judge yourself lacking self compassion.
Speaker 1: Just notice it and then make an effort to treat
Speaker 1: yourself the way that you treat me or anybody else,
Speaker 1: and you'll be just fine. Now, you know what, people
Speaker 1: may judge you. That's totally true, that made true, that
Speaker 1: may be true. So what what's the headline? Human beings
Speaker 1: judges other human beings. People judge me all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, just go to the YouTube channels where you
Speaker 1: know all this stuff of mine and lots of wonderful comments.
Speaker 1: But some people say this guy bores me to death.
Speaker 1: And one of them, actually I love this one. Today.
Speaker 1: It was on a political issue that obviously this person
Speaker 1: didn't agree with me, but they said gobl obviously as dementia. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what okay?
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Gabor.
Speaker 2: You have been such a joy and such a treat
Speaker 2: to have my first ever live interview for the podcast
Speaker 2: we've ever done, to do it in Vancouver, to do
Speaker 2: it with you, someone that I genuinely learned so much
Speaker 2: from every time you speak, every time you share, someone
Speaker 2: that I'm so.
Speaker 3: Grateful to call a friend.
Speaker 2: We've meditated together, We've had plenty of conversations together, and
Speaker 2: I want to ask you one last question before I.
Speaker 1: But before you do, let me just also say that
Speaker 1: it's a real on a pleasure for me to be
Speaker 1: invited by you, to speak with your audience and to
Speaker 1: be the first one on this tour to be a
Speaker 1: guinea pig for you.
Speaker 3: We've all been guinea pigs tonight. We're in it together.
Speaker 2: But I want to end with one last question I
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, which is, if there's one thought
Speaker 2: you'd love for people to discuss as they left today,
Speaker 2: something that they could talk to on the way home
Speaker 2: with their friend, that they came with, the partner, the
Speaker 2: family member, and if they came alone, something they can
Speaker 2: start a conversation tomorrow at work, at home.
Speaker 3: What would you encourage them.
Speaker 1: To Well, I'll tell you what comes up right away
Speaker 1: from me is ask yourself this question. What is true
Speaker 1: for me? What is true for me? Ask yourself that question,
Speaker 1: and keep asking that question, keep asking that all your life.
Speaker 1: That's what comes up what.
Speaker 3: Is true for me? I love it, Doctor Gable, matter everyone,
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Speaker 2: doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
Speaker 2: heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
Speaker 1: A therapist one said to me that if your parents
Speaker 1: didn't not hold you, you developed the mind you hold
Speaker 1: yourself with. It's a fate of pain and it's designed
Speaker 1: to keep you from experiencing pain.