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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight,

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Speaker 2: or showed.

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Speaker 1: Us an email at trust Me pod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, Trust trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lived. To you, If you think.

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Speaker 2: That one person has all the answers, don't welcome to

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Speaker 2: trust Me. The podcast about cult, extreme belief and manipulation

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Speaker 2: from two historians who've actually experienced it. I am Low

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Speaker 2: LeBlanc and I am Megan Elizabeth. And guys, we changed

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Speaker 2: it to manipulation. We thought it would better captured of

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Speaker 2: the broader scope of what we're trying to talk about here.

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Speaker 2: It's not just abuse of power, it's also all forms

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Speaker 2: of manipulation. So we did a little name change. Well,

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Speaker 2: name name.

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Speaker 3: I like it.

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Speaker 2: I like it too. Let us know if you approve

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Speaker 2: rate us five stars. Today, our guest is Joanne Viega,

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Speaker 2: survivor of the Branch Davidians and the Waco massacre. We're

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Speaker 2: going to discuss her earliest memories of living on the

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Speaker 2: compound in Waco, Texas, what cult leader David Koresh was

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Speaker 2: like in person, and what it was like when the

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Speaker 2: siege began, and why fear wasn't the emotion she felt

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Speaker 2: when she saw all the dead bodies.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us how her mom bravely acted to protect

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Speaker 1: her and get her safely out, even though it went

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Speaker 1: against everything they'd been taught, the terrifying transition period afterward,

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Speaker 1: and learning about the fire that killed seventy six people,

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Speaker 1: including her own parents, plus what her life's like now

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Speaker 1: and how she's thriving despite being told by adults that

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Is this a very emotional interview, be warned. But she's

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Speaker 2: amazing and I can't wait to get into it. So

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Speaker 2: we thought, instead of doing cultiest thing this week, we

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Speaker 2: would just kind of give a little background on the

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Speaker 2: branch Davidians, because some of you young folk might not

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Speaker 2: be familiar with this at the time. Very significant culturally

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Speaker 2: the story nineteen ninety three, y'all are too young. You're

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Speaker 2: born in like two thousand three.

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Speaker 1: Producer Steve has given us some nineteen ninety three updates

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Speaker 1: he's obsessed with my friends. He became a symbole Snoop

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Speaker 1: dog rely is to his first album. Okay, so some

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Speaker 1: shit was happening, but some.

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Speaker 5: Other tragic shit was also happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was right up there with Heaven's Gate and

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Speaker 2: the Manson Family. This was a huge, major, major event.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people died. So just to give you

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Speaker 2: some context, let's start sort of at the beginning. This

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Speaker 2: is by no means a thorough history of this group

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Speaker 2: at all. The branch Davidians, this is present tense.

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Speaker 5: They still exist.

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Speaker 2: They still exist.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so they are an apocalyptic religious group. They were

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Speaker 2: founded in nineteen fifty five by Benjamin Rodent. They were

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Speaker 2: a branch off of the Seventh day Adventists originally. Over time,

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Speaker 2: the leadership changed hands. And that's something I always find

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Speaker 2: really interesting is the trajectory of a cult's leadership because spoiler,

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Speaker 2: most self proclaimed profits don't actually live forever, so they

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Speaker 2: need to be succeeded by someone. And in this case,

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Speaker 2: David Krush not the leader original of this cult at all.

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Speaker 2: He shows up. He was a very religious young man.

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Speaker 2: He had an illegal sexual relationship with a young girl.

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Speaker 2: He did poorly in school. He shows up to this

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Speaker 2: existing group and it is speculated that the woman who

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Speaker 2: led it at the time, Lois Roden, who was in

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Speaker 2: her sixties. It is speculated that he began a sexual

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Speaker 2: relationship with.

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Speaker 5: Her and her son wanted to take over.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he was supposed to be the new prophet.

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Speaker 5: Because her husband died.

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Speaker 2: It was supposed to be George Roden. He was going

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Speaker 2: to be the next leader. David Koresh comes in, and

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Speaker 2: his name was not David Koresh at the time. He

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Speaker 2: changed his name. We'll just refer to him by the

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Speaker 2: name we all know him as. Comes in and starts

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Speaker 2: trying to take over this group. And now there's this

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Speaker 2: rivalry between these two guys, which is again, this happens

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Speaker 2: in so many Mormon cults. It's so interesting to see

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Speaker 2: these themes of like rival prophets and also polygamy and

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Speaker 2: underage brides in a non Mormon cult. I really felt

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Speaker 2: like these were I.

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Speaker 1: Think he took it a notch above the rest and

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Speaker 1: did probably one of the craziest things I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: in my entire life, where he challenged the other one

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Speaker 1: to a duel of resurrecting the dead he said, whichever

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Speaker 1: one of us can resurrect a dead body first will

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Speaker 1: be the person who takes over this cult. So then

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Speaker 1: the other guy, George, is like, great, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: He gets a dead body, and then David calls the

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Speaker 1: police and is like he's defiling a dead body and

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Speaker 1: the police are like, what are you doing with this

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Speaker 1: dead body? And George is like, what, no, I promise

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Speaker 1: it's this is real.

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Speaker 2: So he's like, if you can't resurrect a body, like.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he just like took the body thing completely away,

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Speaker 1: and just like he trolled George to make him look

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Speaker 1: insane with the police, George got arrested for like messing

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Speaker 1: around with a dead body.

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Speaker 5: And David had the place to himself.

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Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty nine, and this is how he

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Speaker 2: actually ended up in jail for real, George Roden murdered

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Speaker 2: this man Wayman Dale Adare with an axe blow to

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Speaker 2: the skull after Adare stated his belief that he himself

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Speaker 2: was the true Messiah. Totally different guy Rodin claimed the

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Speaker 2: man was sent by Koresh to kill him, and Rodin

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Speaker 2: was then judged insane and confined to a psychiatric hospital.

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Speaker 2: So basically, he's trying to pin it on Koresh, but

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Speaker 2: he's the one who gets confined to a psychiatric hospital.

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Speaker 2: This rivalry between these men is like incredibly interesting. So

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Speaker 2: fast forward. Now they have this group, they're living on

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Speaker 2: this compound together. They moved a few times, whatever, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Now it's starting to come out that there

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Speaker 2: are children who are being abused by him. His doctrine

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Speaker 2: of the House of David led to quote marriages with

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Speaker 2: both married and single women, And this is sort of,

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Speaker 2: at least from my understanding, this is one of the

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Speaker 2: things that kind of begins the investigation into the group

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Speaker 2: in general. There are at these allegations which seem to

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Speaker 2: be most likely true, and that is how we end

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Speaker 2: up nineteen ninety three, if you want to look.

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Speaker 5: More into it.

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Speaker 1: There was also something that happened six months before that

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Speaker 1: with Ruby Rich where it was kind of a similar thing,

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Speaker 1: smaller and it's devastation, but you can just kind of

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Speaker 1: see where the world was at at that time. And

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Speaker 1: these two instances were what Timothy McVeigh quoted as being

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Speaker 1: the reason that he and his partner did the Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City bombing.

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Speaker 2: Lots of contact with this cult incredibly significant moment in

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Speaker 2: the culture. Incredibly tragic and a total absolute shit show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah on the part of the authorities. I mean, what

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Speaker 2: a fucking fuck up. Yeah, totally unnecessary. So anyway, that

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Speaker 2: brings us to now, and that brings us to our

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Speaker 2: conversation with Joanne.

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Speaker 5: Get your tissues ready, she is so wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. Welcome Joanne Viega to trust me. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being here. I'm I'm really excited to

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Speaker 2: have you on today and also a little bit scared

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Speaker 2: that we're all gonna cry because your story is, Oh,

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Speaker 2: it is a lot. It is wild. Start as at

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Speaker 2: the beginning, So you basically grew up as a branch

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Speaker 2: Davidian when you were a young child, do you have

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Speaker 2: a sense of like how your parents came to follow

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Speaker 2: David Koresh.

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Speaker 3: Well, from what I gather, my parents were living in

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Speaker 3: Hawaii and David was at a church doing his normal

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Speaker 3: sermon and my mom, I want to say that it

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Speaker 3: was my mom again, I had to hear this secondhand

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Speaker 3: from my sister because my parents are no longer around,

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Speaker 3: and I want to say it was my mom who

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Speaker 3: was just looking for something a little bit more in

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Speaker 3: life and more purpose, and so when she found David

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Speaker 3: and he was, you know, such a good speaker, she

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Speaker 3: kind of just was like, this is the way we're going.

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Speaker 3: We're going this way, and my dad and I had

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Speaker 3: to follow. So I don't really again, I don't really

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Speaker 3: know how it happened, but I you know, I think

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Speaker 3: everyone gets to the point where in their life where

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Speaker 3: you're kind of like asking yourself, like what do I do?

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Speaker 3: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: What's the meaning?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's where she was, and just

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Speaker 3: by chance she meant.

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Speaker 2: Dated incredibly charismatic man comes along who's also I was

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Speaker 2: surprised to see how handsome he was, and I allowed

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Speaker 2: to say that I feel like he's a very which

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Speaker 2: which helps I do. I really do think that that's

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Speaker 2: a very important gathering followers.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, What was his message?

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Speaker 1: I was kind of trying to start from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: so I see that it began a little bit. Second

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Speaker 1: Coming of Christ was a lot of his predecessors.

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Speaker 5: Was that his thing as well? Or did he kind

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Speaker 5: of leave.

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Speaker 6: That b I want to say if I because I did.

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Speaker 3: A little bit of research on this too, and I

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Speaker 3: want to say because in the beginning, his rhetoric was

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Speaker 3: very I have the answers, I can show you, you know,

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Speaker 3: what your purpose in life is. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 3: later that he kind of changed his verbiage and started

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Speaker 3: saying like I am the Son of God, like I

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Speaker 3: am the miracle and the answer. You know, it's changed.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the exact year, but you do if

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Speaker 3: you watch the progress of it. It kind of starts

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Speaker 3: with like, you know, we're a family, we can all,

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Speaker 3: you know, love God together, and it was very inviting.

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Speaker 3: And then somewhere along the lines you can kind of

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Speaker 3: notice that he started putting himself as the Messiah. And

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Speaker 3: you know, when you look at it now, all these

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Speaker 3: flags are very clear. But I think when you're in

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Speaker 3: the middle of it, you don't really notice these small

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Speaker 3: little changes that happen totally.

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Speaker 2: It's over time. It's like a long ongoing process.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, little thing isn't going to raise that

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Speaker 2: many red flags, of course, and then it's just like

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Speaker 2: another little thing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he believed what he was saying or

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Speaker 1: do you think he was more conning.

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Speaker 3: That's a hard one. If I could give him the

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Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt, and the only reason why I

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Speaker 3: do that is because I feel I wasn't there, so

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Speaker 3: I really don't know. I want to say that he

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Speaker 3: did believe in the beginning that he could help a

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Speaker 3: lot of people and that he could bring everyone together

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Speaker 3: and under the house of God. That's just a common

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Speaker 3: ground that everyone's on, and I do believe that he

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Speaker 3: started off like that. But then I do believe if

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Speaker 3: you watch he you can see that shift of all

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Speaker 3: these people are listening to me. I have the absolute word,

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Speaker 3: I can control all these people. And then I believe

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Speaker 3: it came to like an absolute con whether it was

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Speaker 3: him like one hundred percent being like I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do whatever the hell I want, or him being like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, let's test the waters, but I do think

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Speaker 3: it did switch.

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Speaker 2: It is interesting. I wonder if you or me, for example,

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Speaker 2: like suddenly had a bunch of people who are like,

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Speaker 2: we believe everything you say, you are our profit or whatever, like,

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Speaker 2: if that had never happened in his life, would he

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Speaker 2: have just like lived a regular life. And it's almost

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Speaker 2: almost like how you know if you have certain mental

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Speaker 2: illness predisposals, if you do LSD, it might trigger it.

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Speaker 2: It makes me wonder like if you have that kind

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Speaker 2: of power over people. Does that suddenly trigger this like

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Speaker 2: sociopathic side of you? You know? Maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely say yes. I think that that's

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Speaker 3: something that maybe we all possess. But I think in

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Speaker 3: people like David who are just so very gifted in

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Speaker 3: the gab area where yeah, just whatever he says, everyone's like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god. More you know, I think in his

240
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Speaker 3: little DNA structure, maybe it was just a little.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. He was there and it was waiting,

242
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Speaker 2: but like it got said off. Yeah. So let's talk

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Speaker 2: about your own memories, because this is the part I'm

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Speaker 2: the most curious about. So how old were you when

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Speaker 2: you first were in the Waco area.

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Speaker 3: I want to say maybe one or two? Wow, Okay,

247
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Speaker 3: I was very very young, I want to say, because

248
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Speaker 3: my sister was around when I was born. I was

249
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Speaker 3: born in Hawaii, and then when my mom decided to

250
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Speaker 3: move us to Texas, I don't think I was more

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Speaker 3: than two.

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Speaker 2: So your first memories then are probably.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have my first starting memories in Waco.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And what is that?

255
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Speaker 5: What is that?

256
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Speaker 2: Can I ask?

257
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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, I have little tidbits of just being alone I

259
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Speaker 3: always like to describe it. I'm not sure if you

260
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Speaker 3: guys have seen those tea bag boxes that has like

261
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Speaker 3: the rolling hills and the woman's like picking tea. In

262
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Speaker 3: my mind, that's all I see is just like very,

263
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Speaker 3: very vast open fields. I was always by myself a

264
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Speaker 3: lot when I was younger. I don't remember having many

265
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Speaker 3: people around. I barely saw my father. I think the

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Speaker 3: earliest memory I have of him was us on a

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Speaker 3: motorcycle doing something we weren't supposed to be, just taking

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Speaker 3: a joy ride, which we weren't supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 3: But that's like the first and the most vivid memory

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Speaker 3: I have of my dad, and I can't say that

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Speaker 3: I was more than five when that happened. Again, my

272
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Speaker 3: timeline's a little of course. Yeah. I just remember being

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Speaker 3: alone a lot in open fields and not really having

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Speaker 3: anyone around, which does sound a little odd when I

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Speaker 3: say it out loud.

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Speaker 5: What were your parents doing?

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Speaker 3: That's a really good question I want to say, at

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Speaker 3: the time we were living. I'm not sure if you've

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Speaker 3: seen a picture of the compound or anywhere on the property,

280
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Speaker 3: but it's like basically this really long road and what

281
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 3: you guys, I think are used to seeing. Is that

282
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Speaker 3: really big white building right when you come down the road.

283
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Speaker 3: But before that was there, if you just kept continuing

284
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Speaker 3: down the road, we each had like houses, little little houses,

285
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Speaker 3: and ours was like the very last one on this road.

286
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Speaker 3: I want to say they were worship you know, i'veyone

287
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Speaker 3: had worship time or know what thely correct thing to

288
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Speaker 3: say is. But they were never around. And then I

289
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Speaker 3: do remember they were all building the big I don't

290
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 3: know what it's called, it, the big white building. Yeah,

291
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Speaker 3: And so that one I really have no clue where

292
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Speaker 3: any adult was.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: When I was little, like it was just like, okay,

295
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 3: hopefully a coyote doesn't eat you, and then you come

296
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,920
Speaker 3: and eat you know, it's like, okay, that's so interesting.

297
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Speaker 2: Was that lonely or was it kind of peaceful?

298
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Speaker 3: I think it was really peaceful, And to me, when

299
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 3: I think about how independent I am and how solidarity

300
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 3: is really a driving force for me, I think it

301
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,800
Speaker 3: really does stem from just having a lot of alone

302
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 3: time and I didn't have a lot of influence from

303
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 3: anyone else. I just kind of wandered around and it

304
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 3: was very peaceful. I don't ever remember it being scary

305
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 3: or upsetting that no one was around. I found it

306
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Speaker 3: really peaceful.

307
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Speaker 5: Yeah, as an introvert, it sounds quite heavenly.

308
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Speaker 2: Right, live in the dream, I do. Some of my

309
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 2: favorite memories because I grew up on a farm for

310
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Speaker 2: like six years of my early years or whatever, and

311
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Speaker 2: some of my favorite memories are like just going off

312
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Speaker 2: into the woods and like looking at the blackberries and

313
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Speaker 2: talking to the cows and.

314
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Speaker 1: Turning over a rock and that was always a fun

315
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Speaker 1: one for me. Ooh, let's look this rock exactly.

316
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Speaker 3: That's exactly what it was like.

317
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Speaker 2: What was your relationship with your mom like at that age?

318
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Speaker 2: I mean, you know you didn't see your dad that much.

319
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Speaker 2: Did you see your mom a little bit more than him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I want to say my memories were of

321
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Speaker 3: my mom at a younger age was a little bit well,

322
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Speaker 3: I mean, since my dad wasn't around, she was the

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Speaker 3: one that was always disciplining. And yeah, I don't have

324
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Speaker 3: like anything super scarring, but I definitely have a feeling

325
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 3: of like my mom was a single It's like having

326
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Speaker 3: a single mom. She has to be the mom, the dad,

327
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Speaker 3: the babysitter, the everything. And it wasn't always just fun

328
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Speaker 3: and games.

329
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Speaker 2: Right, did you have many interactions directly with David Koresh.

330
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Speaker 3: I did not, because I was not his child. He

331
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 3: was definitely more involved, and I felt like it was

332
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 3: a little bit more segregated because his children obviously were

333
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 3: the son of the Messiahs, so they were you know,

334
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 3: very high end and the rest were not. So I

335
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 3: don't have any really big interactions with him, but I

336
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,040
Speaker 3: do know that all of the ones I do have

337
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 3: are quite scary, so I try to kind of keep

338
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 3: those on the down low.

339
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Speaker 2: Can you tell us about some of them.

340
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember sneaking out my mom was in a

341
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 3: exercise class. We were upstairs somewhere in the big white building,

342
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 3: and I remember I wasn't supposed to be there, but

343
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 3: I was looking for my mom and I kind of

344
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 3: came in and I sat down right behind her, like

345
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 3: everyone was facing the front of the room and I

346
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 3: had sat down behind her and I was just, you know,

347
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 3: kind of playing around and she didn't really mind. And

348
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,719
Speaker 3: then David walked in, and I just remember having like

349
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 3: the fear of God put in me because it was like,

350
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 3: I know, I wasn't supposed to be there. I was

351
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,159
Speaker 3: probably supposed to be at some worship time or whatever,

352
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 3: and I was just stuck, and I remember my mom

353
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,239
Speaker 3: kind of putting her hands behind her to kind of

354
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 3: like silence me and be like, Okay, you need to

355
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 3: stay still. And I just remember just like fearing for

356
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 3: my life because that was that was after the time

357
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 3: where really any adult could spank any child, what like

358
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. Oh yeah, they let any adults, you know,

359
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 3: because I think the thought process was when the end

360
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,120
Speaker 3: of the world came and when these bad people came

361
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,440
Speaker 3: to kill us, that an adult, any adult was supposed

362
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 3: to be able to have complete control over this child,

363
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 3: to direct them or to you know, do whatever it

364
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,679
Speaker 3: is that we needed to do in that moment. So

365
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 3: all the children were conditioned to listen to any adult

366
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 3: at the snap of a finger, and we all knew

367
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 3: that if we didn't, it was like severe spanking. And

368
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 3: so you feared basically every adult you came across, because

369
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 3: if you did one thing wrong, that's like any adult

370
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 3: could be looking at you and that that's a spanking.

371
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 3: That's just that was it.

372
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 2: Well, I can imagine all that solitude was peaceful.

373
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 3: Then. Yeah.

374
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Speaker 1: I remember getting spanked once by my mom's friend on

375
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 1: our way home from school.

376
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,360
Speaker 5: It was so traumatizing.

377
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 2: Like mom's friend.

378
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were like carpooling with this little girl in

379
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: my same age and this little girl and I like

380
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: got She kept telling me she was going to a

381
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: museum and I kept going, I know I've been there,

382
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 1: because I was like three years old, and she would

383
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: be like it has this there and I was like,

384
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: I know, I've been there, and her mom just turned

385
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: around and spanked the absolute shit out of me.

386
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 5: And it was so traumatizing. So were you being spanked

387
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 5: by other people, like on the on the regular?

388
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 3: What on the regular? It was? You know, we had

389
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 3: in the big white building. Sorry if I'm being repetitive.

390
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 3: We had the women were on the top floor and

391
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,439
Speaker 3: my bedroom that we shared with it was me my

392
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 3: mom on one side on a bunk bed, and we

393
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 3: had we were living with another woman on the other side,

394
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,879
Speaker 3: she had the other bed. Every night they would go

395
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 3: down and do a worship group for hours and hours,

396
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 3: so just the kids were stuck upstairs and I remember

397
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 3: we'd kind of like poke her head out of the

398
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 3: out of the rooms and kind of be like, hey,

399
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 3: are you up. Any other kid across the hall would

400
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,959
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I'm up, and we didn't changeat with

401
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 3: each other, you know, because we had no adults around.

402
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 3: And I remember my the lady that was living with us,

403
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 3: had come upstairs to I don't know what she was doing,

404
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: but she'd come upstairs and she saw all of us

405
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 3: kind of talking to each other and poking her heads out,

406
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 3: and she and memediately came into she lived in our room.

407
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 3: Kim immediately came to me and just spank the shit

408
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: at me. It was like, you know, you're not supposed

409
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 3: to be out of bed, you know, you're not supposed

410
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 3: to be talking. And after that it was like, no,

411
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 3: we're talking. Groups for us, we were getting scared.

412
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 5: Oh so sad and it sounds so fun too. That

413
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 5: sounds so fun. Wow, cool, Thanks for taking that away.

414
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: I know in terms of what the group believed, what

415
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 2: was your conception of that?

416
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: Ah? Well, I think when every adult tells you the

417
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 3: same story as a child, you kind of have no

418
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 3: choice but to believe it. And all we knew is

419
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 3: we were preparing for this big war. We were God's

420
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 3: chosen people because we chose to believe David Koresh and

421
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 3: we chose to follow him, that we would be saved.

422
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 3: Everyone else was going to die. We were going to

423
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 3: be saved, and we're going to go to heaven and

424
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 3: our family would be together. And you know, it was

425
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 3: and I did have my sister in my life, it

426
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 3: was very minimal. She would call every once in a while.

427
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 3: I remember talking to you on the phone. But I

428
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 3: also remember thinking like, okay, well, if we all die,

429
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 3: like we go to heaven, she's not coming with us.

430
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 3: Like that's going to suck. You know, Like you kind

431
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 3: of start to put these things together. It doesn't really

432
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: make complete sense because an adult's telling you, like without

433
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 3: a doubt, like, okay, well when we're all going to die,

434
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 3: you know, you'll be saved, so it doesn't matter. Just

435
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: you'll be with your parents. And because we all chose

436
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 3: to believe David, so you grew up with that mentality.

437
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 3: And that's why when we were attacked by the ATF,

438
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was abnormal. I didn't think because

439
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 3: you have everyone telling you you know, these bad people

440
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 3: are going to come and they're going to kill you,

441
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 3: and so we actually, you know, even more to back

442
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 3: up David, were like, hey, what he said was true.

443
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: We this is it, Like this is what we've been

444
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 3: waiting for. So for me, it wasn't. I just thought

445
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 3: it was another day. I'm like, hey, yeah, this is

446
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: how it goes.

447
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 2: Where was your sister? How much old her was she is?

448
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 3: She she's eighteen years older than me. Oh wow, Okay,

449
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 3: So she chose to stay in Hawaii. She wanted nothing

450
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 3: to do with David. She wanted nothing to do with

451
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 3: my parents' involvement in the branch debating group. Which good

452
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: for her, you know, I think at twenty five, I

453
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: don't even remember like what my core beliefs were at

454
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 3: twenty five. But for her to be like, I'm not

455
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: doing that, I think takes a big amount of guts.

456
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So you guys would talk regularly and you

457
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: have this like connection with someone.

458
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, she would send me books and little art those

459
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 3: little plastic things that you open and it has like

460
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: all the little art supplies in it and stuff like that.

461
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: So I remember her being there. I don't, of course,

462
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: I had no idea what she looked like. I had

463
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 3: no idea where she was. I just remember talking to

464
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 3: her briefly every once in a while and knowing that

465
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: she was there.

466
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 2: I guess just one more question about David, which is

467
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: just like did you get like a sense of magic

468
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: around him, Like did he feel like a prophet? Or

469
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 2: was he just kind of a scary adult?

470
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 3: He was like the most scary adult. He Like, there's

471
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: nothing about him that made you feel comfortable. I want

472
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 3: to even say, if I can even reach this far,

473
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: I want to even say, as an adult looking at David,

474
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: I think everyone was kind of scared out of their

475
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 3: pants because he has this I mean, when we're all together.

476
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 3: I'm sure in the beginning it didn't seem so out

477
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 3: of place or that he was this fearful figure, but

478
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: towards the end, just any time you looked at him,

479
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 3: he just was like you just wanted to die, Like

480
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: you just want to like shrivel down and be like

481
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. He's like, I don't know what it was.

482
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 3: I don't know.

483
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's so interesting.

484
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: It's like the scariest person I have probably ever met

485
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 3: in my life. Wow.

486
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, is devolve right and get so paranoid and like agitated.

487
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 3: Yeah.

488
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: So this is all happening in the early nineties, right,

489
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety three, there was an article published

490
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: saying that he was a polygamist who was taking underage brides.

491
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: Is that was that true? Do you know?

492
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: We heard little rumors, you know, as kids, because I

493
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: think we all knew as kids that that's what was

494
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: going on, and we had heard rumors that there was

495
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: a specific girl should long blonde hair. I don't know

496
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: who exactly she was, and I definitely don't want to

497
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 3: put a name out there because I'm not one hundred

498
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 3: percent sure, but we all knew, like, and she was

499
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 3: probably fourteen, we all knew that she was going to

500
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 3: be David's next wife. We as kids, we all kind

501
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 3: of were like, that's the one, that's the one. I

502
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: don't know, And of course, you know, we hear kids

503
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: absorb everything from their surroundings. So I'm not sure who

504
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 3: would have started that, but that was like common knowledge

505
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 3: for all the kids to kind of know that he

506
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: was taking other wives. And I don't know how many

507
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: there were. I don't know any of that stuff, but.

508
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, was the brainwashing so intense.

509
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: That it's like, oh, lucky, like you're the prophet's wife

510
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: or are are you still a little kid who's like, ew, no,

511
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: please not me.

512
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: I was a little kid and I just wanted to

513
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: make sure that would never be me, because and I

514
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: did kind of figure if you like, if were stating

515
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: the obvious that David had a type. Right, I am Asian,

516
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 3: so I'm like, ooh, I'm gonna I'm never gonna be

517
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 3: in that lane. So all right, but he definitely, he

518
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: definitely had a type. And I think all of us

519
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: were like, Okay, we've all checked that box. We're not

520
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 3: going in that direction. So it's okay.

521
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: Wow. So that article comes out and it seems to

522
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: be I mean, obviously there's so many factors that sort

523
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: of lead to the siege, but it seems like that

524
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: is sort of one of the initial.

525
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 5: Red flags for people.

526
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

527
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'm curious. Were you guys aware of

528
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: that in the group? Did the paranoia begin because of that?

529
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: Or is just an unrelated.

530
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: Detail for I think that me being that young, I

531
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: want to say, it wasn't really on our forefront of

532
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: things that we understood really or kep tabs on. I

533
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: know that my mom had reached out to my sister

534
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: a couple times and was asking to leave, and she

535
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: wanted to she wanted to get out of there. Yeah,

536
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: and I don't know what caused that because she was

537
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 3: so very adamant that David was the answer. So for

538
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 3: her to make that kind of switch where she was like,

539
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 3: I can't do this, I'm out something significant I think

540
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: had to trigger her morals for her to be like

541
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: that's not right right, and it just didn't happen. David

542
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 3: would not let her go. It was just no one

543
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: was allowed to leave. And I think she I want

544
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: to say, my sister told me she tried to escape once,

545
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: but she couldn't take me, so she came back.

546
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness.

547
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: No. Okay, So let's get into the siege a little bit,

548
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: because you directly experienced this the beginning of this horrible thing,

549
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: and I mean, I guess you sort of said it

550
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 2: when it first happened. It wasn't surprising because he'd been

551
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: talking about how the end of the world was coming.

552
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 5: And you're like, Okay, it's starting, it's happening. Cool.

553
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, But so.

554
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: There are gunshots, Like what did it actually look like?

555
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: So I again, because our bedroom was on the on

556
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 3: the second floor, and I could look down to the

557
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: front from our room, I could look down to the

558
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: front of the door of the building, and then you

559
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: can also see the driveway. I just remember it being

560
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: one of those mornings didn't seem like much. Came in,

561
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: told me to get dressed. I was in pajamas and

562
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: she didn't get dressed. We're gonna go and eat, and

563
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: of course, like a little kid, I did not listen.

564
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: And I definitely took my time. I want to say

565
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: it was like maybe halfway out of pajamas when this started,

566
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: and I just I looked out the window and all

567
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: you see is just little black dots coming down the

568
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: road and I just kind of looked at it, and

569
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: it just from there was just like a hail of gunfire.

570
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: It just was like these loud blasts all over all crazy.

571
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 3: And my mom ran in. She was downstairs. She ran in,

572
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: grabbed me off the bunk bed, put me on the floor,

573
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: she put she laid on top of me, and she

574
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 3: just said, you know, you have to be quiet. And

575
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: it was just like all all hill and I that

576
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: memory stops right then, so I and that you know,

577
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: that was days and hours of gunfire, so I don't

578
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: know exactly when that ended. And I just remember thinking, well,

579
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: that's this is it. You know, this is where we.

580
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: Die, so you're expecting to die and like, yeah, then

581
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: go right to heaven or whatever.

582
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the deal. That's what every adult had

583
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: told you, and you believed it. You had nothing else

584
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: to go by. And when it comes, you know, semi true,

585
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: like you feel like, well, this is exactly what everyone

586
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: had said was going to happen, and here we are.

587
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: So I believed in a prophet when I was a kid,

588
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: not for as long, and you know, it didn't end

589
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: as tragically, although there were some bad things that happened,

590
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: but I remember that feeling of like, oh, yeah, like

591
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: the end is coming and like then we're going to

592
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: be a part of the final battle or whatever and

593
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: we'll be immediately brought to heaven. This is exciting. He

594
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: was never that explicit in like what that would actually

595
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: look like, but I'd been taught in just regular Mormonism

596
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: my whole life up to that point that like the

597
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: Second Coming was coming and like shit was going to

598
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: go down and we would all be chosen or whatever.

599
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: So I I think like, on some level, if that

600
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: had happened to me, I would have been like a

601
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: little bit excited, like it's it's here, We're doing it.

602
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: We're the chosen people. God's picked the time like hell yeah, you.

603
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: Know, I don't remember being scared at all, Like there

604
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: was not one one part of me that was like

605
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: this doesn't feel right or should this really be happening?

606
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: Like it was like all right, well here we are,

607
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: here we go wow wow.

608
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, so six branch Davidians died in that first

609
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: round of gunfire, and then and four like a government agents.

610
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: I think, did you did you see them?

611
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 6: Again?

612
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: My timeline during that also probably has skipped around a

613
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: little bit. I do remember walking through our hallway because

614
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: we had they had first moved all the children and

615
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: the women who were at the front part of the

616
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 3: building there was like all rooms, a hallway and then

617
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: another set of rooms. They had moved us to the

618
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: back end of the building and put the kids under

619
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: the bunk beds. In order to get out of that,

620
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: you had to go down the hall to go downstairs

621
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: to like where the cafeteria was, where the church was,

622
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: what the front door was, and there was no other exit.

623
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: It was just the one way down the hall. And

624
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: I do remember walking to get downstairs and seeing a

625
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: bunch of bodies kind of lying on the floor and

626
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: to me and every you know, you can see. And

627
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: this was at night when we had no electricity and

628
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 3: there was just the search lights that they put on,

629
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: the really bright search lights on the building, and from

630
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: that you can see all the gun holes in the

631
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: walls as you walk down the hall, and it really

632
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: is one of those scary movies where you just it's

633
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: pitched black, the only light you have is coming from outside,

634
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: and it's just all gun holes everywhere. Yeah, it was

635
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: very serene. It was not fearful. I wasn't like, holy crap,

636
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: what has just happened. It was more like a right, okay,

637
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: just waiting, waiting for the ax drop, I guess.

638
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: Fascinating.

639
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as somebody who's also told the end of

640
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: time is about to come at all moments of my life,

641
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: I think I would have been much more terrified than

642
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: both of you. I think I would have totally flipped out.

643
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: But there is that feeling of like at least it's

644
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: finally happening and about to be over, like the axe

645
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: has fallen.

646
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 5: I can really relate to you know.

647
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you kind of just wander around being

648
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: like so when I still alive? Yeah, what's happening? Yeah?

649
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: They didn't tell you this, right, whoa.

650
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: But it is just so crazy that they just show

651
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: up and start fucking shooting at people.

652
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 5: There's kids in there, there's kids in there.

653
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: There's I mean, like they had a warrant for it's

654
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: arrests and they had a search warrant. How the fuck

655
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: does that turn into like killing spray just spraying bullets

656
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: to the point where the walls are covered in bullets

657
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 2: like that is insane.

658
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 5: How many kids were in there?

659
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: I don't, uh, twenty seven, I think twenty three?

660
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: Oh that is wild, I mean, and you know the

661
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: branch Davidians are shooting back right there's there, it's an

662
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: exchange of gunfire. But it's like, why why did it

663
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: even have to begin this way?

664
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

665
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: How many days were you there? If you know?

666
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't have an exact date. And of course

667
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: remember we also were not schooled, so for me, like,

668
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: we had no idea what days were, what dates were,

669
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: what unths were, what time was really no clue. They

670
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 3: did not school us at all. The only thing we

671
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: were schooled in was just Bible knowledge.

672
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 5: So did that? Would they teach you to read the Bible?

673
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: They they would like highlight they would say, here's a

674
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: passage you want to look at this and highlight every

675
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: time you see the word God, and that's the only

676
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: words you really need. Have nothing to do with what

677
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: was happening. I could not read as soon as I

678
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 3: got out. It was just like you start from negative five,

679
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 3: not even ground zero.

680
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 5: I am so impressed with you. Just yeah, no words.

681
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: Wow, you're obviously incredibly intelligent and made up for that

682
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: lack of education in your childhood. But that is that's insane.

683
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: So some amount of time you were there.

684
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to say it was. If I can

685
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: kind of take a stab, I want to say it's

686
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 3: like a week to two weeks. I remember it being

687
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: because in my mind, I think I only have maybe

688
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: five memories of that whole time. That's why I don't

689
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: know who said. They're like, oh, you're in there for

690
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: like a week or two weeks. I was like, but

691
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: how is that possible? Because they only have like five

692
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: memories of that, So I don't know where that time went.

693
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: I'm sure somewhere in my psyche, you know, they kind

694
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 3: of shut everything down and was like, Okay, this is

695
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 3: not appropriate for a six year old to be going through,

696
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: so we're going to shut all that down. And I

697
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: haven't got any of it back, so I really don't know.

698
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is a very specific logistical question,

699
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: but like, while there's all of this gunfire being exchanged,

700
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: what are you doing for meals?

701
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: Like?

702
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: How are you just like getting through the days?

703
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: So David had stockpiled Mr e. Those military meals. Oh,

704
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: I remember having like seeing in the cafeteria just a

705
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: wall of just boxes of food. And it was again

706
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 3: just preparation for the end of time. So in that regard,

707
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 3: he was prepared.

708
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: Right, and that you had them in your house, Like

709
00:35:58,960 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: are you yeah, you.

710
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 3: Just went downstairs and grabbed a box or whatever.

711
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 5: And oh, because you guys are living in the big

712
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 5: white building at this point, Yeah, I see, okay, oh.

713
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there were other children obviously experiencing this with you.

714
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't see any of them. I'm not sure

715
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: where everyone kind of dispersed to. I just know that

716
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 3: when I was moved from my bedroom to the back

717
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 3: part of the upstairs, I was with one other girl

718
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: and we were just underneath the bed and put like

719
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: pillows and everything, like as if a pillow is going

720
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: to help, But they had put pillows all the way

721
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: around underneath the bed for us, and they just kind

722
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: of shoved us in there. And so you're just waiting

723
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: in the dark. Yeah, you know, listening to the chaos happening.

724
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, did they do different things with his children?

725
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 5: Do you remember what happened to them?

726
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 3: So David had a separate wing of the building. So

727
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: when you go through the front door, you can take

728
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: a left and you can go upstairs for all the

729
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: women and children. Where we were downstairs was the men.

730
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: If you went straight back, it was the church, and

731
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: then behind the church above like you kind of went

732
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: behind it and went up the stairs. Theres was his apartment.

733
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 3: So that's where he lived. And I want to say

734
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: he lived with his wife. I don't know which, but

735
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: that was his place. So I want to say all

736
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: the kids were his children were with him.

737
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: Okay, so tell us about how your mom makes a

738
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: move to protect you at this point.

739
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 3: So she, I mean, again, from what I can gather,

740
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: she already knew that this was not right, her trying

741
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: to escape, her trying to leave. So I think in

742
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 3: the moment when she realized that kids were being released,

743
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: she really advocated, like, you know, she's not your daughter,

744
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: she has nothing to do with you, she's not the

745
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: chosen one. Let her go, and she came back. I

746
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: just remember her saying, you know, hold on one second,

747
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 3: I'm going to go talk to David. And she came

748
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 3: back and she said, you're getting out of here, and

749
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 3: she like, as fast as you possibly can, sorry that.

750
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 4: You're good, You're good, As fast as any person possibly can,

751
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: you know, gather as many things that you have.

752
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: To put on your child. And she just as fast

753
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: as she could grab my arm, took me downstairs and

754
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 3: was like you're going, Like that's it. There's no questions,

755
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 3: there was nothing that she was so very confident and

756
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 3: in that decision. And I think that her as a mom,

757
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: her instincts, everything about her as being a mom just

758
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 3: kind of kicked in all at once right then and there,

759
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 3: because she also understood that by releasing me, she would

760
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 3: never be able to go. So that I think is

761
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: like the biggest sacrifice as a parent that you can make,

762
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: and like, really, you know, be in that moment to

763
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: like make that decision. She there was no second questioning.

764
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: Was she was so dead set. Sorry, oh my.

765
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 2: Gosh, no, you are totally fine, We're yeah.

766
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: So why why does her making the decision for you

767
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: to go. I mean, she can ever go because she

768
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: has no leverage anymore of like how to get out

769
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: or well.

770
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: There was only talk of releasing children. I'm not sure

771
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: if there was ever a conversation of releasing adults. And

772
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 3: I think when she put everything together, she realized it

773
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: probably was never really about an adult leaving was like,

774
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: get the kids out. If you are a mom and

775
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: you really have come to the realization that this is

776
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 3: not the Messiah. He is not the person that he

777
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: said he was going to be, and he was not

778
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: going to be able to deliver all these promises that

779
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: he said he was. You know, your your reality kind

780
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: of sinks in and she just was like take you know,

781
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: take her, just get her out, and she was.

782
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 4: She was.

783
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 3: Both my parents were extremely strong because I when I

784
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: was leaving, I got to say goodbye to both my parents,

785
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 3: and I don't remember either of them crying because I mean,

786
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: if you think about it, if you had told me

787
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 3: that we were supposed to die and we would all

788
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: be together, and then all of a sudden plans change,

789
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: giving I'm handing you over to these bad people. So

790
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 3: I told you for the first six years of your life,

791
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: that they were going to kill you and that they

792
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: were bad, and you don't ever talk to them. If

793
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: you see them, you run, you tell an adult. And

794
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 3: now I'm handing you to these people, and I am

795
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: not going to be with you, Like it's such a

796
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 3: different mental state to be in, and just you have

797
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: to go. You have to go with it. And as

798
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: a kid, you know, we were taught to listen to adults.

799
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: Just that's the only thing. So I didn't question it.

800
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't understand really fully what it meant

801
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 3: at the time, but I just knew that my parents

802
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: said you have to go. They were not upset, they

803
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: weren't crying, they weren't like in fear. It was just

804
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: a very calm like you have to go. And she

805
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 3: put her necklace and a note for my sister in

806
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 3: my pocket and my jack and she just set me

807
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 3: out the door and that was that was it.

808
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: That is yeah, I just yeah, I'm I am marveling

809
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: at the strength that it would take to do that,

810
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: when they were so indoctrinated into this idea that this

811
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: these deaths would be a good thing, these would mean

812
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: you would be together. You know, you'd been waiting for this,

813
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: and I just like that that that leap that it

814
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: takes to be like, I'm actually gonna defy everything I've

815
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: believed for the past however many years, to save my daughter.

816
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 3: Like and she did an interview. I remember seeing her

817
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: if she's in a truck, and she was asked if

818
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: she believed that David Koresh was the son of God

819
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: and her response was, I hope so, And that to

820
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 3: me was like if there was ever a time to

821
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 3: know that she did not believe that that was true,

822
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: that was it. But it came from her own words.

823
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: She had every choice to say one hundred we're here,

824
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: we one hundred percent believe this. Yeah, and her her

825
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 3: choice of word was I hope.

826
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: So, oh, thank god she was doubting. I mean, thank

827
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: thank God, that's why you're here, Like that's yep.

828
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 6: Oh.

829
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: I just I that the unwinding that she did and

830
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: how quickly and how like it's just unbelievable.

831
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom worked a lot of people with a

832
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 2: lot of people who are exiting the group that they're in,

833
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: and like it's a it's a long process like that,

834
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 2: Like so anyway, it's just an amazing it's just an

835
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 2: amazing decision.

836
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm very thankful.

837
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: And so you left Anne and then what they just

838
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 2: like take you? And was it scary?

839
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: It was scary. It's and it doesn't when I'm going

840
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: to say this out loud, it doesn't sound scary. But

841
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 3: in my mind, when you have no experience whatsoever, like

842
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: a flushing toilet scared the shit out of me. Wow.

843
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 3: Taking a bath like a bubble bath scared the absolute

844
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 3: craft out of me.

845
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 2: The first water at all, no running water, no electricity, no, Wow,

846
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was.

847
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: I want to say we had electricity, but I don't

848
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 3: think we had running water because we did not have

849
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 3: toilets or baths. For baths. We had a big tin

850
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: bath and then we had to fill it up with

851
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: water and then take it out. Wow. So it was

852
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 3: not it was nothing. It wasn't like the luxuries of

853
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: having a flushing toilet.

854
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: Now.

855
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: So for me, when I I thought it was, I

856
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: thought it was definitely a trick and I thought I

857
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: was going to get spanked, you know, every time I

858
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 3: was supposed to flush the toilet or take a bath.

859
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,959
Speaker 3: I definitely I thought like, holy shit, like I'm gonna

860
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: get spanked. This is not normal, This is not how

861
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 3: we do things. And it took a lot of unwinding

862
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: for me to start over and to start from scratch

863
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: for the basic things that you know everyone has. Now,

864
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 3: we had never watched movies, so for me, I think

865
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: the first movie we saw was The Little Mermaid. They

866
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 3: took us to a home I let a shelter, a

867
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: home where all the kids were staying, and they let

868
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 3: us watch movies. They let us know, play sports, have candy,

869
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: have soda. It was just one of those things where

870
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 3: you think, I'm definitely gonna get spanked if I if

871
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 3: I take a sip of this, and a lot of

872
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: the videos that I've seen had I was always in

873
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: the background by myself kind of just like this is

874
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 3: not you know, this is not right. I definitely feel

875
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna get spanked or punished or this. This

876
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: is just not right. I was very It's hard to

877
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 3: watch those those videos and see just how how mentally

878
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 3: insecure I was in like the basic things, Well.

879
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 2: It makes total sense. It's the only thing you'd ever known, Like, yeah,

880
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 2: this is everything, goes against everything you've ever been taught.

881
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: With a bunch of strangers like why why would you

882
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 2: be immediately on board.

883
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 5: Not only strangers, but like the enemy, the.

884
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: Enemy, Yeah yeah, the enemy, Yeah yeah, And I mean

885
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid.

886
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: Wow.

887
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: Imagine never seeing a movie and then you're just watching likesla.

888
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was it amazing? Was it terrifying?

889
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 6: The first one.

890
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 3: I think we all we watched it and all of

891
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: us were like what the hell just happened?

892
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 6: And then we were like can we can we repeat that?

893
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: And so we just had it like non stop, the

894
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: same movie over and over.

895
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 2: Wow.

896
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: For me myself, my sister's name is Ursula and my

897
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 3: mom name is Ursula. So for me, I was like, yeah,

898
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: I was like, holy yow, who is it?

899
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 6: I ended up the villain?

900
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 5: But no, that's all right, kind of cool.

901
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: Actually yeah, her own person doing some shit.

902
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, super cool, Like there are stealing voices

903
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: from ladies? And how long was it before you were

904
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: living with your sister?

905
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 6: I don't think it was more than a couple week.

906
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 6: Maybe again, timelines are not great with me.

907
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: She had to go through a lot of fighting in court,

908
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: and I think what had ultimately became the deciding factor

909
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: was the note that my mom had left in my

910
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: jacket was basically saying that my sister was now my guardian.

911
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: That's who she wanted me to go with. Right, And

912
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 3: so she's writing this note in the middle of all

913
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: that chaos, knowing that an outcome needed to happen, and

914
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: that's what she wrote, like, your sister is now your guardian,

915
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 3: that's who I'm trusting.

916
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: That's incredible foresight against right, very impressive.

917
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: Oh wow. But then I moved to Hawaii and that again,

918
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: you want to talk about scary times, is like going

919
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 3: to school for the first time, is you know, children

920
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 3: are relentless in their beliefs. As a child, because you're

921
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 3: so solely believing one thing, she don't know how to

922
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 3: think for yourself. Really, and going to school, I remember

923
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: being teased for not having parents, for not having my

924
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: parents around, and it was really rough. It was definitely rough.

925
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: Did you feel a connection with your sister, I mean

926
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: you'd never met, but you talked enough.

927
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was immediate. And I had no idea who

928
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 3: you know what she looked like. I had no idea.

929
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 3: I was just brought to an office and she was

930
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 3: sitting in there with a social worker or someone, and

931
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: I just remember like as soon as I locked eyes

932
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 3: with her. I was like, that's my sister, and I

933
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 3: just crawled into her lap and she was my safe

934
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: zone and she's been my safe zone for a very

935
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: long time.

936
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: Wow. So the Waco siege lasted for fifty one days,

937
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: which is absolutely insane. How did you get the news

938
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: about the fire?

939
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 3: My sister every morning would turn on the TV before

940
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: I'd go to school and watch the news. And that

941
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 3: morning she turned it on and it was just everything

942
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 3: was up in flames, and she just, immediately, she was

943
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 3: so quick turned off the TV. I don't even think

944
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: I had a chance to see what was on the TV.

945
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 3: She turned it off. She said, all right, let's get

946
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 3: you to school, and as if nothing had happened. And

947
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 3: I went to school, had no idea what was happening,

948
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: and she said she just pulled over and cried.

949
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 6: And I think it's hard for me to think about

950
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 6: this because not only.

951
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: Did I go through this experience, but she did too.

952
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 3: She was I don't want to say burden, but she

953
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: definitely had a lot of things she had to deal

954
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 3: with that she did not sign up for. Yeah, so

955
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: she was definitely a rock. And then she picked me

956
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: up from school, said you know, we need to talk,

957
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: and you know, mom unfortunately has died.

958
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 6: And my response to her just was like, yeah, I know,

959
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 6: like you guys told me that this was going to happen,

960
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 6: Like I wasn't surprised. I was again very calm, very

961
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 6: just a matter of fact, like that was a fact.

962
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: Yes, wow, And she I think I think that might

963
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 3: have scared her a little bit, if I can be honest.

964
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, and then from then, I think every adult

965
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 3: in my life has tried to be a little bit

966
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 3: more kind to I think they all waited for the

967
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 3: acts to drop, as if I were going to lose

968
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 3: it or like I was not expecting this that your

969
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: parents unfortunately passed, and you know it would all hit

970
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: me at one time, and it didn't. It just was

971
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 3: like very like even to this day, I don't ever

972
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: really cry when I hear that back because it was

973
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: so it was just a fact to me, Like, okay, so.

974
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, seventy six people died that day, including twenty something children.

975
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: That is so crazy. That was just so crazy, dude.

976
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think about your mom, now, what do

977
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: you think, like, what do you hold on too?

978
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: I think of her and I think, yeah, she made

979
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 3: this decision to be part of a group that she

980
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: thought was going to give her the answer she was

981
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 3: looking for in her life. And I think everyone kind

982
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 3: of gets to that cross point where you figure, what's

983
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: going on with my life? What am I doing? And

984
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter to me how she got there.

985
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,479
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what where she was in her own

986
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: growth journey or not even growth journey, whatever, It doesn't

987
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: matter because when the time came for her to make

988
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 3: the most crucial decision, she didn't question. She just I

989
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: think in her every moral fiber of her being, she

990
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 3: knew what was right and she made, you know, just

991
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 3: the most difficult decision that any parent can make. And

992
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 3: that's what defines her in the end. Has nothing to

993
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 3: do with how she got here. It has nothing to

994
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: do with her battles that she fought while she was

995
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: there or any of it. It doesn't matter to me.

996
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 3: It matters to me that she found herself, she found

997
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 3: what she knew was right, and she went with it.

998
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a hero. Yeah, she protected you when it

999
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: was the most important, and that's the important thing to remember.

1000
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 2: It seems like, what's your life like now?

1001
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 3: I have three beautiful boys, my husband and I work

1002
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: in our family restaurant in San Francisco. I am right

1003
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 3: now the pastry chef there. And my eldest son, Logan,

1004
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 3: who's sixteen. He has definitely been my rock during a

1005
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: lot of growing through being a parent. He comes to

1006
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: work with me every three days a week.

1007
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 6: He works with me.

1008
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 3: I'm just trying very hard to raise kind gentle men

1009
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: for this world because I feel like that's definitely what

1010
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: is needed right now. So I have a four month boy.

1011
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 3: When we found out we were pregnant, I was so sure.

1012
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: I said, you know what, I'm ready. If now is

1013
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 3: ever the time, I'm ready to raise a strong woman.

1014
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 3: If that's my lot in life, I can do it.

1015
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 3: I have the energy, I have the patience. I would

1016
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: love to raise a strong woman that was not the

1017
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 3: choice that was made. And a good friend of mine

1018
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: because she knew how disappointed I was, because I was

1019
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 3: so very set, I said, this world needs a strong woman.

1020
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 3: I am ready to do that. And now what am

1021
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: I going to do? I have another boy, And she

1022
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 3: gently reminded me. She said, you know, I think the

1023
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 3: world does have enough strong women in it right now.

1024
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 3: I think what we are lacking is just kind.

1025
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: Men, good men.

1026
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 3: So if that's the journey you're supposed to be on

1027
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: and you have three opportunities to do that, I think

1028
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: that's where you should be. And I just kind of

1029
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 3: was like, oh, holy shit, you're right, damn it.

1030
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 6: So I gave up the idea of raising a strong woman.

1031
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 3: And I am trying to raise kind and gentlemen who

1032
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 3: you know, have a little bit of a backbone but

1033
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 3: still can contribute kindness because I think we definitely need that. Now.

1034
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: I love that perspective so much. I think that that

1035
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: is an excellent point that your friend made because right there,

1036
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: most of the problems in this world are men who

1037
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 2: are afraid to be soft or vulnerable. Yeah, or I

1038
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: should say, are have root causes in dynamics involving then

1039
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to say it's men's fault,

1040
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. So, yeah, I think

1041
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 2: that's incredibly important. And just based on this conversation, I

1042
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: would guess you're doing an excellent job of doing that.

1043
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 3: Oh thank you. I really do try. It's hard work.

1044
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 3: Every day.

1045
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: I read something that I'm not sure it is true.

1046
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: It was like an article, but it said that a

1047
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: social worker or somebody when you first got out was

1048
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: telling you like, you're not going to be a good person.

1049
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 3: Is that? Yeah? I mean they told my sister to

1050
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: basically make sure I continue therapy because the chances that

1051
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: I would grow up to be a youtbomber was very likely,

1052
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, or you know, a mass murderer was

1053
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 3: basically what everyone thought I would be.

1054
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

1055
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm not sure where that studyoga.

1056
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: Wow, I was hoping you'd be like, no, that's not real.

1057
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 5: Okay, that was real.

1058
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: So you've just like shown up in everyone's faces and

1059
00:56:58,840 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: have a beautiful life.

1060
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: And yeah, well I think when you hear when you

1061
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 3: hear that, you know, at a young age, you kind

1062
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 3: of think like, I really would like that to not

1063
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 3: be true, and your decision making from then kind of

1064
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 3: fears you the opposite, right as, I don't really know

1065
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 3: how I got.

1066
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 6: To this point, if I can be honest.

1067
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 3: But it's just a day in and day out, small

1068
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 3: decisions that are made to make sure that I do

1069
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 3: not kill a bunch of it.

1070
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: Sounds like though, that you had this wonderful sister who

1071
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: really like guided you through what could have been really

1072
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: which probably was a very rocky tumultuous time. But having

1073
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: that person can make all the difference in the world too.

1074
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: Not that you would have ever been a master, that's

1075
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: but I just in terms of in terms of like

1076
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: turning out relatively healthy and balanced and well adjusted all

1077
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: things considered.

1078
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had some growing pains. I'm not going to

1079
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 3: say that it was you know, rainbows and sunshine. We

1080
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 3: definitely went through a lot of growing pains and we

1081
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 3: had a lot of discovering and growth to do between

1082
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: the two of us to kind of navigate and make

1083
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 3: sure both of us got out of this alive, so

1084
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: to speak. And you just need one person. You need

1085
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 3: a village when it comes to raising children. I think

1086
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 3: that's the thing, because raising a child on your own

1087
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 3: is freaking crazy. So to single moms who do it,

1088
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 3: holy freakin cow, I salute you. But I do think

1089
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 3: that it just if you have one person in your

1090
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 3: life who tells you and means it when they say, like,

1091
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 3: you're enough, that's It's just one. You just need one.

1092
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 3: You don't need every single person that you come across

1093
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 3: to tell you that. You just need one that you trust,

1094
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,479
Speaker 3: and that's it. You're enough. Every day you're enough.

1095
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: Imagine your story will be very inspiring to our listeners

1096
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: because we have a fair amount of listeners who had

1097
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 2: their own either cultic or abusive, or just like general

1098
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: traumatic experiences, and it's so inspiring to see when someone

1099
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: comes out of something that's so extreme and so difficult

1100
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: and just like.

1101
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you. I do want to just say,

1102
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: because I've been asked a lot. I have kids in

1103
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: high school who reach out and ask me to answer

1104
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: their questions for a school project that they do. And

1105
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: I've been noticing lately that it has been a majority

1106
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 3: of people who write to me that are in high school,

1107
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 3: who say, you know, we're learning about this in history class,

1108
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 3: and I was just hoping you'd be able to answer

1109
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 3: some questions and talk to me. And as I get

1110
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 3: older and I realize that this isn't something that everyone

1111
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 3: has grown up with on the news. They're obviously very

1112
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 3: different problems happening today. I think my main goal to

1113
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 3: tell these kids, and I tell each one of them

1114
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 3: like you're enough, Like I just want you to know

1115
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: that in school, because people don't tell you in high school,

1116
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: they don't tell you in middle school or elementary school.

1117
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 3: We weren't raised with parents who nurture us in a

1118
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 3: way where it's always a comfortable growth. I think our

1119
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 3: generation before us has been very rough, So I do

1120
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 3: want to make it a thing where I tell these

1121
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 3: kids before you get to being an adult and have

1122
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: to figure it out on your own, and no one's

1123
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: ever told you that you were enough, that you're enough.

1124
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 3: That's really just my that's my hos shpiel. I just

1125
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: want to make sure that kids hear it from someone

1126
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 3: that they're enough, because I never heard it.

1127
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you don't have to be like that influencer

1128
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: on Instagram or having a particular body or whatever it

1129
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: is there. I can't imagine. We're just talking about this,

1130
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: but I cannot imagine being a kid right now. It's yeah,

1131
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: very very hard. So yeah, well, thank you so so

1132
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 2: much for coming on. This is truly an amazing conversation

1133
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: and you just seem like such an awesome person, and yeah.

1134
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 3: Really appreciate it.

1135
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 6: Thank you very much.

1136
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 3: Guys.

1137
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 2: All right, Megan, time for the question. Would you join

1138
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: this cult?

1139
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 5: To be fair?

1140
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: Living on a compound sounds pretty fun. As you've mentioned,

1141
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: he's very good looking. I don't necessarily agree, but if

1142
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: I found him good looking, it might be influential.

1143
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I could see myself hanging out down in the

1144
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 5: big white building for a minute.

1145
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: Down in the big white building. That's a song title

1146
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 2: for sure.

1147
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1148
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 2: I think that the religious element would maybe make it

1149
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: not one of mine.

1150
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, the religious element is not fun.

1151
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but commune living like sure. Actually the parts where

1152
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: she's describing just like being on her own in this

1153
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 2: beautiful natural setting. I'm like, that sounds great. I would

1154
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: do that for sure, and like the sleepover vibes with

1155
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: the kids. But then other you know, minus the punishing

1156
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 2: who knows, you know. It was a really particular time,

1157
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: a really particular religion.

1158
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: But I can see why people got sucked on me too.

1159
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for spending another week listening to us.

1160
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you here again next week.

1161
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: Remember to follow your gut, watch out.

1162
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 2: For rad Laggs, and never ever trustrust me by later.

1163
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1164
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1165
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 5: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1166
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1167
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1168
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cult pod, or on TikTok At

1169
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: Trust Me Cult Podcast.

1170
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1171
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1172
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1173
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.