1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: a chance. 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 2: Good morning, give it. 4 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: A chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance, 5 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Give it a chance, good morning, Give it a You 6 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: want to give it a chance, Give it a chance, 7 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: give it a chance. Just I feel drunk with power 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: when I have the song and you don't have. 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: It, And are you drunk with alcohol? It's twelve eleven pm. 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: I don't I want to want to pull the curtain 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: back too much. But maybe this becomes a little different 12 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: kind of chance you. Maybe Casey's got to give rehabit Chancey. 13 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: I took, I took, I took Edie's space cake. I 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: love that this is becoming a runner. 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Protected Services has so much a yeah exactly. 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: There's three different episodes where the defendant mentions explicitly drugging 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: his underage child. 19 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: Yeah no, so yeah, this is well, actually all right, 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: I'll find a transition from that. You know, if you were, 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: if you were really rich, you might. 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: I'm a rich No, it's not that would be. 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: That jumped to very No, I think. 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: If rich rock of failure. Okay, sorry sorry, sorry ahead. 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes you know rich people, I don't you know they 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: might they might not notice when their kids are this 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: sort of lifestyle. 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: I was yet I had it. It's a lifestyle, and 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: it's in the famous I have to be I have 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: to be a little. 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you gotta be careful here. 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: Well, it's I kind of love it. I'm kind of 33 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: welcoming it. No, there's a there's a degree or two 34 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: of of of separation. Uh uh, I'm into it. This Actually, 35 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: this is actually liberating for me. 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll gonna be honest with you. Like there, I 37 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: was between a lot of songs and and there are 38 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: I want to get into this category in following podcast 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: or you know, later podcasts where. 40 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: Like hot topic emo, is that the category? Yeah, yeah, 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: white belt category. 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: Of I like this song. The world doesn't like this song, 43 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: and I want to defend it. But also I understand 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: the problems with it. So it's like I've already given 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: this a chance, but I want the world to give 46 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: it a chance. Right, That's that's the evolution totally. 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: I also just think, again, I want to point something out. 48 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: I'm going to point this out probably every three episodes 49 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: of our show, and maybe every three times I talk 50 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: about it on the internet. Again, every single song we 51 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: do this idea that the world doesn't like it will 52 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: be it's a very specific definition of the world and doesn't. 53 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: These are all songs that were like enormously successful songs. 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: Massive is normous. These songs were is normous and so yeah, 55 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: it's like, you know, lifestyles are rich and the famous 56 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: was like literally that song was like on TRL and shit, 57 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: so you can't It's like, you know, I do want 58 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: to say one thing quick before we get into it. 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: Someone recently that I a person who is an is 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: an audience member who I've known for a while from 61 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: my own little music world, I think listening to our 62 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: podcast reached out to me. I was like, so, do 63 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: you just like not like anything pop cultural? And I 64 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: was like, no, that's not it at all. I like 65 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: a lot of it. But then it prompted me to reflect, 66 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: like are you a snob? Because I feel like I've 67 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: known snobs my whole life, from like fourteen getting into 68 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: like whatever independent music culture. There was always the gatekeepers 69 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: that were like there to make me feel and I'm like, 70 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: what's so funny about that concept is that I actually 71 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: feel like my music tastes are so pedestrian and predictable. 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: It's like, how can you be a snob if you 73 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: like three bands? You talk about Elliott Smith and Irvana 74 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: and like Bob Dylan or something like all of the like, 75 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: there's not a person in there. I guess Elliott's closest 76 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: to like a little bit of a yeah, like hidden Treasure, 77 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: But the guy was nominated for an Oscar. It's not 78 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: like he's a secret so. 79 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: Soundtrack artist, like, yeah, he has got songs on soundtracks that. 80 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's like, so I'm like, no, it's not 81 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: that I don't like anything pop cultural, nor is it 82 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: that I'm a snob. It's that I like two bands. 83 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,119 Speaker 1: But I was thinking about that. It's funny you mentioned 84 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: it because I was thinking about this too, and I 85 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: think I am a snob. But I believe that everyone 86 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: is right, like everyone knows what they like exactly. But 87 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think I think there are people who 88 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: are louder about it. And yeah, in doing this podcast, 89 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: you know we are. Of course we're being louder about. 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: It by definition you were talking into microphones. 91 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do think that our you know, going 92 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: back to our ethos, which is like trying to be 93 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: positive through this or just trying to change our own 94 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: experience or open our horizons a little bit or. 95 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: Changed like national policy about all manner of different you know, initiatives. 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 2: And so I want to announce my candidacy and my 97 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: VP is okay, see so sorry. 98 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: How can we be snobs when we do that? 99 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 2: How can we be running for Prez? 100 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: Prez Hilton? Which is a similar era to this. 101 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: Song vid was she in the vid? 102 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: Oh I was? I said, Perez Hilton. Paris is married 103 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: to one of the Charlottes. 104 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 2: Paris is married to Perez Hilton. 105 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, Paris Hilton is not married. No 106 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: sorry sorry, Richie Nicole rich Richie Nicole Richie is married 107 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: to one of them. And then I think Cameron Diaz 108 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: is married to the other. 109 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 2: Good for the brothers. Also, you know Guy Ritchie is married. 110 00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: Guy Ritchie is married to Waylan. Uh what Madden, the 111 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: other Madden brother. There's like many It's like. 112 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: It's Madonna's husband, Madonna's X is married to Marlon Wayans 113 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 3: Jennings Madden. 114 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, check it out. It's all on Wikipedia. 115 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: That's the segue into the song. 116 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, So one thing is I'm pretty sure this 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: song is post is this it? So, I think two 118 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: thousand and two. Yeah, so it's a year after that 119 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: that thing hives the I Don't want to Get Free, 120 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: that Vines record. It's that like new rock thing is 121 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: happening this the White Stripes are starting to percolate, pre 122 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 2: Jack White becoming like Vincent Price mixed with someone who 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: accidentally writes like the soccer anthem of all time, which 124 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: is an amazing turn. But when they were like, you 125 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: know these that whole thing is happening, this music for 126 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: a pop punk band. The sound of this song is 127 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: actually like a little more abrasive and a little less 128 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: like kind of candy ass than some of that stuff. 129 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: Sounded like the drums have real the drums are doing 130 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: that like last night, which was doing what's it called 131 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: Tom Petty American Girl. But it's got that thing which 132 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: is a little departure. It lives in the same energetic space, 133 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: but it's that thing about like how there's a difference 134 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: between like pop punk and punk pop. Super Chunk is 135 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: a punk pop band. Japandroids is a punk pop band. 136 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: The Thermals are a punk pop band. And yes, I'll 137 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: say it aspects of Nirvana. It's a punk pop band. 138 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: Then there's pop punk, which is to me, something that 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: is defined by and this isn't negative, it's just a 140 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: little bit more like there's something a little bit more 141 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: kind of caffeinated and like it's a little bit less 142 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: aggressive maybe than it is like caffeinated is what I 143 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: would say. And there's almost something and a lot of 144 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: it that's like, you know, a little like whether it's 145 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: Green Day, whether it's Blinkwin eighty two, where there's there's 146 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: something that's like by nature meant to be a little 147 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: bit less serious and a little bit more like sophomoric 148 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: or something like that. Yeah, and now are there is 149 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: there a real significant difference If you sat someone down 150 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: who'd never listened to this music, If you sat someone 151 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 2: down and played them like a super hyper enough by 152 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: super chunk and this, they might be like, oh, it's 153 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: like basically lives in the same world. But I think 154 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: there's like a significant if you are in these worlds, 155 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: it feels pretty significant. 156 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: It's vocals. No, I think there is a difference, and 157 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: I think it's vocals, And I think that Green Day 158 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: really toes the line of those both to both those 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: two things, especially like if we just look at Dookie, right, Yes, 160 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: I think it. I think what it influenced took took 161 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: more liberties with that, like sophomoric thing, yeah, even vocal 162 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: quality of your your Billy Joe Armstrong of like yeah, yeah, 163 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: you know like his like that too, who are you right? 164 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: Like that's where that came from. But I don't think 165 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: Billy Joel and Joe Armstrong, I don't think he was 166 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: really he was influenced by you know, sex pistols and clash, 167 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: I think, and he was channeling that. But if you 168 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: listen to the demos, like they recently released the demos 169 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: of of Doolittle, it's so cool to see he wrote 170 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: these really good songs. 171 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like and like if they just they. 172 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: Just cleaned them up a little. It's not like they 173 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: went into the studio with a producer. No, and the 174 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: Dookie record like it's fast and furious, but it's but 175 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: it's it's it's really like the songs are there. 176 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: That record has like grit. The sound is gritty. It's 177 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: not it's not American Idiot, which by that point is 178 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: like built for and that's not a criticism either. That 179 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: was intentionally built for radio dominance. Whereas Dookie was built 180 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: for like a slightly cleaned up version of what this 181 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: like kind of like you're right, British punk by way 182 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: of ap Ivy and uh and and Bay Area SKA 183 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: and punk thing. But I think I do think you're 184 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: right to iterate that as you get into blinkin eighty 185 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: two and then as you get into this league of 186 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: bands and those. 187 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: Other bands you mentioned, like thermals like they to me 188 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: don't have that same like vocal like lifestyles of the rich, 189 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and it's not I don't even I'm not coming I'm 190 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: not even coming forward. I'm just you know, saying that 191 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: there's a different observation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's because there's 192 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: a place for it, and I there's a there's a 193 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: bunch of blank win too. There's a lot of pop 194 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: punky even like once in a while, like a like 195 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: a simple Plan song comes on, I'm like, I feel 196 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: so nostalgic for it that I'm like I could completely 197 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: separate how you know. Some of it is a little vapid, right, 198 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: It's a little hollow of songwriting, and this song, I 199 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: think at its worst has that. But it's popcorn, right, 200 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: It's just it's it's light, and it's fun sometimes and 201 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: and I do like it. 202 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: No doubt, no doubt. And it's so it's so likable, 203 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: and it's so approachable, and it's so digestible, and it's 204 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: also what what it's what's brilliant about it and what 205 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 2: is what why it spoke to millions and millions and 206 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: millions and millions of especially suburban kids, is that it's 207 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: sort of like the kind it's like a kind of 208 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: rebellion that is like very digestible. There's like a rebelliousness 209 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: in you know, in that it's fast, in that the 210 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 2: guitars are distorted, in that the guy's got a kind 211 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: of like adenoidal nasal vocal quality that's a little like snotty, 212 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: like a bratty kid kind of a thing. But it's 213 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: not like actually like you know, uh, challenging you in 214 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: any way about like any sort of like radical ideas 215 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: or is not roca like no no, or even aesthetic. 216 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: It's not like it's it's not even like it's like 217 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: a Steve Albini record or something where you're like, oh 218 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: my god, like there's something you're hearing in the sounds 219 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: that you're like, like PJ. Harvey or something where you're like, 220 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: holy shit, like that's kind of like or or Trent 221 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: Reznor or someone like that. We mentioned him in a 222 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: recent episode where there's like something in the Sonics that 223 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: are actually a little bit like h anyway that is 224 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: to that is that is all there for me. And 225 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: with this song, it's like they're doing something where they're 226 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: taking that genre and they're pulling it a little bit 227 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 2: towards the whole like new rock thing that was happening 228 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: at that time. With that, with that the Sonics, Yeah, 229 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 2: and the Sonics are like slightly trashier than than than 230 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: the peer group at this point, is especially the major 231 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: label pop punk stuff is at this point, this chorus 232 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: is undeniable, super duper catchy, well structured. I'm trying to 233 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: do all my chance he's up top because I have 234 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: a lot of other thoughts as well, but no do 235 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: I I am not confused about the peel of this song. 236 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 2: And to what I just said, they literally in this song, 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: the whole spirit of the song is the kind of 238 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 2: promise of pop as in popular punk, which is streamlining 239 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: and making approachable even just the concept of rebellion. They're 240 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: literally this is like perfectly streamlined Olympic athlete of a 241 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: rebellion song. We're gonna find We're not. We'll get into this. 242 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: I have a lot to say about this exact next sentence. 243 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: We're not the rich and the famous, but we're gonna 244 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: find them with you, and we're gonna get them. We're 245 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: just like you. 246 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: We should rob their mansion. 247 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that in that sense, it's a 248 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: perfectly executed like it's a its mission is clear and 249 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: its execution is perfect. And I think all of the 250 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: there's one part of the song structurally, which i'll get to, 251 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: an anti chance that I do not fuck with that 252 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: all but and and as usual, it's the bridge. But 253 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: the rest of the song is. 254 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: We're bridge snobs. We were definitely bridge I'm. 255 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: Definitely a bridge snob. That's fine with me that I'll 256 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: ride or die with. 257 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna kind of do a bridge from a 258 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: posey to a neiggie. So last episode I talked about 259 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: how there's this artist Jackson. She has this song about 260 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: Victoria's secret. Remember, and my point and my point that 261 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: a friend of mine changed my perspective was like, well, 262 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: for a younger generation, Jocelyn, Yeah, for younger generation. This 263 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: is there, This is the this is their first step 264 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: into being skeptical about certain things or looking into things, right. 265 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: And I would say that this is even more a 266 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: version of that. There's like there's this massive wealth issue 267 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: and like like this is ridiculous, like they should spend 268 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: a day or two in our shoes, right, like and 269 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: all right, that being said, my anti chancey is that 270 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: it's so hypocritical. I mean, they're married to the richest people. 271 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: They themselves are also very wealthy, like especially at this point. 272 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: And to say it's so disingenuous, disingenuine. 273 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 2: I think it's disin jasmin yen. 274 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: It's disjasmine. 275 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: From all, I think disingenuous was great. 276 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: This should be the theme song to The Simple Life, 277 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: which was because it's got the thing of like I 278 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: would like to see them spend a day or two 279 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: to walk in someone else's shoes. That's the whole theme 280 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: of that. The Cole Richie Show where they did dirty 281 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: basically dirty jobs to like like working on a farm 282 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: and stuff. So it's it's it's they are talking about 283 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: that meta. 284 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: It's meta. It is shout out to Zuck, sorry please, but. 285 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the the old the whole thing of Also, I 286 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: actually don't know that. 287 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm sorry. I love that you can just one 288 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: of my favorite things about this is that the craziest 289 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: shit I could do that just like you're just flawlessly ok. Yeah. 290 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: So one of the things about this sorry please, right, 291 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: that's thereful. 292 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: There are times that I'm like, I'm like, I want 293 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: to live in it, but I'm also like, oh, hold on, 294 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: do we need to let's keep it moving? Yeah? 295 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh wait, yeah, sorry. 296 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: Sorry, And I'm like, so when he says about Rolling Stone, 297 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: does he mean the magazine right? 298 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. 299 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,239 Speaker 1: All they do is piss and moan, right, the celebrities 300 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: that I don't even know how often they do. That's 301 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: so strange to even say that. But there, I don't know, it's. 302 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: Strange for this. Here's the thing that I think is like, 303 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: I don't know if this is Chancy anti Chance or neither. 304 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: I fully agree. This is a song where like the 305 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: premise of the song, it's almost like it's immediately disqualifying. 306 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: So it almost like makes it like hard to like 307 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: That's why I really wanted to front load the Chancy 308 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: because for the stuff again, better or worse, the stuff 309 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: that I actually care about as a listener of music 310 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: and as a person who like, this song is ridiculous. 311 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: It's like a totally ridiculous, almost self disqualifying song, which 312 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: so you don't have to separate out like its mission 313 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: statement as I said aesthetically, which they nail from its 314 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: mission statement topically, which is patently ludicrous. And so yes, 315 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: look do celebrities. I understand what they're saying when they 316 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: are talking about celebrities piss and moan. There is a 317 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: trope I guess that doesn't come from nowhere about like 318 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: how difficult the trade off in fame, champigre problems, Champi, 319 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: Champagne problems, Champagne Poppy at Champagne Poppy on Instagram, fuck 320 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: them up. This is just to say I do think 321 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: that is a thing. I also think it's hilarious that 322 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 2: they are connected to the people to whom they are 323 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: connected and that they in speaking about that thing, because 324 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: that is there's something in there that I'm like, how 325 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 2: are you reconciling those realities? But I also think it's 326 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: like it's really funny. This is actually leading me down 327 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: maybe a weird cull to sac but like when I 328 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 2: was twenty years old. Right, I love Radiohead, I love Nirvana, 329 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: I loved fight Club, I love Rage Against the Machine. 330 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: I love a lot of things that, like, I guess, 331 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: in a way, we're like a kind of corrective in 332 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: the mainstream, right, something that was there to represent what 333 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: is being talked about in these songs everything I just mentioned. 334 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: Radiohead and Nirvana were on major labels. Radiohead has been 335 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: on a major label for most of its career, and 336 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: the time it hasn't is only because after a certain 337 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: amount of time, they were afforded, literally afforded the material 338 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: opportunity to do whatever the hell they wanted with their 339 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: music because they'd made millions and millions of dollars on 340 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: major international record labels. Fight Club is a very subversive 341 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: set of ideas that starred very famous people and was 342 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: put out by a multinational film corporation or media corporation. 343 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: Now you can get into a series of conversations that 344 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: might be more suited for like some kind of like 345 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: leftist podcasts or philosoph philosophical podcast about the ultimate value 346 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: of any of that. If you are bringing those ideas, 347 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: it's maybe like for people like me, they helped catalyze 348 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: a series of ideas. At the same time, the ideas 349 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 2: inherent in fight Club or OK Computer or whatever, they 350 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: were also being propagated by millionaires on multi national, core 351 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: billion dollar corporations, So on one hand, you could even 352 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: make the argument they were kind of like co opting 353 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 2: these kind of radical ideas. Now, I don't think this 354 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 2: song is operating at the level of any of that 355 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: shit was it was, But I do think I've had 356 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: this weird re reconsideration of my relationship to all of 357 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 2: those things as I've aged, and it's part of why 358 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 2: and I listen, i'd apologize, but I'm not sorry. It's 359 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: part of why my internalizations of the stories of people 360 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: like Kurt Cobaine or Amy Winehouse or Elliott Smith or whoever, 361 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: Shinead O'Connor have changed with age two. It's like it's 362 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: sort of that I'm like, oh yeah, right, Like maybe 363 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 2: the reason but besides substance abuse, family of origin, trauma 364 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: and whatever else, is that reconciling some of the things 365 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 2: those people knew were kind of fucked up with the 366 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: realities they were in choosing to be in is actually, 367 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, kind of maybe an 368 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 2: impossible project. If you're looking at it squarely, So why 369 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: do I bring that up? This song's I'm operating on 370 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: the level of any of that, But they're flirting with 371 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 2: it right topically, it's still like you're they were playing 372 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 2: this song on the van's warped tour. Uh, and then 373 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: like I'm sure there's there's this, there's no teeth to it. 374 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: They're not really advocating for anything here, and in fact, 375 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: they're so confused that the whole second verse is about 376 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: like O J. Simpson and fucking Marry and Barry, which 377 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 2: I'm like, they're not like, yeah, look, I don't know. 378 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 2: Look I don't want to get pretty in trouble. I 379 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 2: think OJ did it. I'm pretty sure OJ did it, 380 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 2: you know. And if not, OJ was a very confusing, 381 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: seemingly fucked up got a lot of other directions, right, 382 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 2: great fucking jay Z line is that story of OJ song? 383 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: First line, OJ said, I'm not black im OJ? Okay, okay, 384 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 2: but like you know, this is not like this isn't 385 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: even the things I was just talking about in their 386 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 2: complexity fight club and and and and okay computer, This 387 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: is just like two kids who are kind of like, 388 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: you know, they're doing a good job. What's the word 389 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 2: cop playing agit prop? Certainly not raised against the machine, 390 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: and uh, you know, I don't know to me, who 391 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: are like who is the weed and who is the they? Is? 392 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: What's really my problem with this song. They're making a 393 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: lot of assumptions about who they these two people are 394 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 2: actually like aligned with and who they are on the 395 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: other side of a line from and I think that 396 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: the song buckles under those contradictions. For this admittedly maybe 397 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: overthinking listener, but yeah. 398 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: It's interesting to think of that this on TRL because 399 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: it fits squirrely. 400 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: You know. 401 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: In fact, I watched the music video and Chris Kirkpatrick 402 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: is in it and Kyle Gass is also Is he 403 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: really the end of this song? I give a huge 404 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: chancey too. And I really liked how they went up 405 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: on it lifestyles, Oh. 406 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: The little chord turnaround, I agree. 407 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: And fact that nice. 408 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: It almost what I should say about that. It almost 409 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: fixes my issues with the bridge, which is a non 410 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: existent sheet of a bridge, because I like when a 411 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 2: song does that at the end, it's almost like a 412 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: bridge at the end when you make those changes. 413 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of that little coda. So yeah, 414 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm with you. So the only thing I'll say about 415 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: the bridge, which they're in the music video, there's a 416 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: Kyle Gas and Chris ker Patrick's skit that happens. 417 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: Oh okay, what happens. 418 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: It's like they're in a courtroom and like who's rich 419 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: and who's famous? Good? Good good. Charlotte is in trouble 420 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: for speaking out against their giving middle fingers in the 421 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: courtroom and Kyle Gas is like playing this like we 422 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: don't get it, we don't get your music. And Chris 423 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: kork Patrick is like he's like on the stand, He's like, 424 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: look at the way they dress, like they're like you know, 425 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: and it's just like hots and stuff. It's just like 426 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: they are freaks, like tongue in cheek. But the skit 427 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere. 428 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 2: What's the end of the skit. 429 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: The end of this get is a person stands up 430 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: and it is like we find the uh, the defendants, 431 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: and then it doesn't cut to them saying yeah, not guilty. 432 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: It's just them walking out of the court reservoir. 433 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: Oh so we find the defendants. Maybe what the the 434 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: sentencing was was that they had to dress like like 435 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: like like famous rich people's. 436 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they still had spies. 437 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 2: Oh well, maybe it was that they chose that and 438 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 2: that they were still like the look. And then he 439 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 2: was like, Chris Kirkpatrick, you could get your ass kicked. 440 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: Eminem's another one with this too. That's a fascinating like 441 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: this time period. Eminem's like on t r L making 442 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: fun of all these other people, but like the real 443 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: slim Shady which is infectious and and like this it's 444 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 2: like perfect that it's stated mission. But it's like, is 445 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 2: it is it any less a bubblegum pop song than 446 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 2: like Bye Bye Bye. It's basically the only difference is 447 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: that it's hip hop and and that point was still 448 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: you know, the the the real like white hot ascendency, 449 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 2: like hip hop as the primary mover and shaker in 450 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: popular culture. But like it's not like you're listening, it's 451 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: not like, uh, it's not even like the real slim 452 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: Shadies like to Pimp a Butterfly or something like that, 453 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: like where you're like bring in like weird jazz influenced 454 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: you know, like it's like it's a pop song and 455 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: it's a great pop song. 456 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: It is it is, it is. I mean what I 457 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: don't think in sync would would go through this territory 458 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: right of like lifestyles of the rich and famous. Although 459 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: like Weezer did, right, Weezer did Beverly Hills, right, which 460 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: is this tongue in cheek thing, and they've they live 461 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: they live in Beverly Hills and they're they're California guys. Now, 462 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: oh they always guess not always. I don't other things 463 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: this this though. I remember people saying again, I'm just 464 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: like Pat Plowing. I remember people saying that they started 465 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: as like a real roots kind of like. 466 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: Good Charlotte did. 467 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, that they were. They were coming up in 468 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: a scene like that Vay seen at lower level, and 469 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: they got to this point. So this must be their 470 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: maladroit right for Weezer or whatever, like or they're sant 471 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: anger push it out, like push it out, they're trying 472 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: to or the American right there, American idiot where they're 473 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: like trying to do something. I think I bet you 474 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: American idiot had a lot more to say than this. 475 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: I know that well. But I think like they probably 476 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: land the metaphors a little stronger than this. 477 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: I think that's probably true. And I feel like, you know, 478 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: I also feel like he was Look, I'm not like 479 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: a card carrying Green Day fan. But I do think 480 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 2: he's like a great songwriter, you know what I mean, 481 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 2: Like whether or not I always love the uh the end, 482 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 2: I don't know even the right way to end that sentence. 483 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: It's not like I don't really hear Green Day songs 484 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: and be like that's bad, you know what I mean. 485 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 2: I just don't know if it's exactly But there's some 486 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 2: Green Day songs that I think are like great, And 487 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 2: I think he has a real awareness of he's a 488 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: smart pop songwriter. I think, I totally think, and so 489 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 2: I think when he puts his mind to something like 490 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: that project, like I remember at the time of American 491 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: Idiot thinking it was actually pretty cool along the lines 492 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: of what we were discussing earlier. I don't really think I 493 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: ever owned the record, but I feel like the idea 494 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 2: that in the Teeth of the Bush thing, some like 495 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: a huge band was putting out songs that were explicitly 496 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: like kind of like I'm thumbing their nose at that 497 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: and inviting their audience to do the same. Now, if 498 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: you sit there with a fine tooth quom and go 499 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,479 Speaker 2: through those songs, there is there is a question there is. 500 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: It's what's brilliant about it is it is intentionally it 501 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: is not rage against the machine, where that guy's concerns 502 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: are hyper specific and he is being hyper literal in 503 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 2: telling you about them. Their genius, of course, was that 504 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: they figured out how to like Trojan Horse songs about 505 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: like Leonard Peltier and the Sandinistas and the Zapatistas and 506 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: every other thing and like income inequality all the rest 507 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: of it into like massive led Zeppelin by way of 508 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: hardcore songs that like a bunch of people would just 509 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: go nuts for and then like later might be like, wait, 510 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 2: what is he talking about? You know, I don't know 511 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: if with the Green Day stuff, it feels like that 512 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 2: that record the times I've heard American idiot songs later, 513 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: the concerns it's more thematic to me than it is 514 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: like policy oriented or you know what I mean. That's 515 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: not a criticism, that's that you know. I remember Bob Dylan. 516 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: There's a famous story he says to Phil Oaks, great 517 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: folk songwriter, but it was a very much like a 518 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: topical lefty love me, I'm a liberal and all this 519 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, And Dylan says to himt one point 520 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: like you're not a songwriter, you're a journalist, And it 521 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: was meant to be like very and I think it 522 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: was very cutting to him because I think they all 523 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 2: held him in such high regard that him sort of 524 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: saying like, yeah, you just like you just read the 525 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: paper and write songs, and it's kind of. 526 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: Right, you're Do you think he meant it as he 527 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: didn't agree with him, or that he's being too close. 528 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: I think he meant it more like it that well, 529 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: he sort of seems like he might be like a 530 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: world class asshole Bob Dylan. 531 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: But oh, I agree, I agree, But I know, like 532 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: if he meant it as like, hey, you're not doing 533 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: this effectively, like you know, you could do it a 534 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: little bit more subtle and get your point across farther 535 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: than doing it so clunky, you're basically I. 536 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 2: Think maybe I think that at that point it was set. 537 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 2: What when he's saying that, it's when he's sort of 538 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:45,959 Speaker 2: started his apostasy from uh, what's it called topical songwriting. 539 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: He's basically decided like after my back pages and you know, 540 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 2: the band, he starts playing band music. He's kind of like, 541 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: I don't do that anymore. So it was almost his 542 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 2: way of being like, like, I think he was a 543 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: dude who was he was always playing chess like people 544 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 2: were probably like phil Oaks is the new Dylan, and 545 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: Dylan was sort of like I'm sure didn't like that 546 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: and was like, and phil Oaks, those songs are great songs. 547 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 2: You know, I don't agree. He was a journalist. I 548 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: think he actually wrote about that stuff with a lot 549 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: of soul and sensitivity, and also so to a lot 550 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: of journalists. But anyway, this is all just to say again, 551 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: I do I like what you're saying, because I think 552 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 2: it when I'm saying maybe I'm being a little uncharitable 553 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: when I say it's invalidating. Like, look, people exist in 554 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 2: the contexts in which they exist. And if this band 555 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: was like, hey, we're gonna put like a song on, 556 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: we have an opportunity to get on TRL and like 557 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: have a song that's about like how ridiculous the sort 558 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: of like infrastructure of celebrity is, well, that's kind of cool. 559 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: Maybe for me there's some kind of tension and also 560 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: participating in the infrastructure of celebrity while doing that. But 561 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: then it's like that's a more naughty question, like what 562 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: do you want? Do you want? Fiona app getting up 563 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: at the VMAs and being like this is all stupid, 564 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: I personally do. I kind of like them, And then 565 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: I like when someone like her like never went to 566 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: something like that again, that to me is actually like 567 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 2: coolest because the person's being like, you know, the person 568 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 2: has a front row seat, they're in it, and they're like, 569 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: you know, this is like total bullshit, right, and then 570 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: they're like and I'm just never gonna come again. I 571 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: kind of for me, And maybe that's childish Holden cough fieldish. 572 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 2: I don't know, but there's a part of me that 573 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: like I love that, and yeah, but everybody can do it. 574 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: I know. Another thought I have is like there are 575 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: times that it just I missed the window of time 576 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: that it would be controversial, like like for example, like 577 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm not really a big sex Pistols fan. I'm not 578 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: a Johnny fans and that that that that that thing 579 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: he did. 580 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 2: After Public Image Limited Public. 581 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: I can't believe that. I think it's the weirdest ship. 582 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: I don't like it at all, Like that's like me 583 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: being like I don't and I'm embarrassed to watch it. 584 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: I hate it, but I remember being a kid and 585 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: being like even like younger in like high school and 586 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: rolling my eyes at anarchy. Ye okay, I am in 587 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: that case. It's like I I was like, oh wow, 588 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: that's I don't know. 589 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 2: Because you were going like this, I want to see it, 590 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 2: will do it for me too, but it's not working. 591 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: That's because I'm in zoom. Sorry, but I remember feeling 592 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: that way, and even then, and probably at the time 593 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: it was controversial to say that he's that they're. 594 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,479 Speaker 2: Totally and to be on the BBC like being high 595 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: and drunk and swearing and. 596 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure sure, and so I give it credit for that, 597 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: and I really I give yeah totally and even American Idiot, 598 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: I give it a lot of credit because they went 599 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: out on that was that was a tough time, like 600 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: in like a sort of post role to speak out 601 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: like that was you know, there's only a couple of 602 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: bands that did it, and someone over people somehow of 603 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: raging against machine went over so many people's heads that 604 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: like people are still figuring out that their poetical which 605 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: is crazy. The name gave American Idiot was directly like 606 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: that was that. I think they're almost some of the 607 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: most direct lyrics that there could be for you know, 608 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: like a leftist. I'm this is what, this is how 609 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: I believe, like I don't like this political regime, and 610 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: I give that that credit, even though I also think 611 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of an eye roll now looking 612 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: back or just certain things are like okay, but this 613 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: I can't. 614 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: This isn't sophisticated in any way. And I don't and 615 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: I don't When I say sophisticated, I don't mean like 616 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: swirling a you know, a glass of you know, some 617 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 2: expensive wine while you the port. I mean like it 618 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: it's unsubtle in the wrong ways. Don't want to be 619 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 2: an American idiot whatever. They're like. What's brilliant about that 620 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 2: is that it's specifically unspecific. He's not saying like, don't 621 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: want to codify endless wars in the Middle East, for 622 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 2: like he's saying like, uh, he's kind of finding a 623 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: way to avoid being specific, but is also being specific 624 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: in positioning himself as opposed to a kind of thoughtlessness 625 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: he found running rampant in his country. This is just 626 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: like it's so it's it feels a little bit like 627 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: a kind of bait thing to me, Like they kind 628 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: of like I feel like it was a way too. 629 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 2: There's something that actually you bring up the sex pistols, 630 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 2: it's interesting, there's something about it. It's like it is 631 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 2: like like with time, all things kind of like somewhat 632 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: these things kind of like rhyme, repeat but degrade. Like 633 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: this was a way to try to like use those 634 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: same platforms, those labels, MTV, all these other outlets to 635 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: sort of like they kind of I feel like that 636 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: was the marketing plan in some way for I'm sure 637 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 2: the meeting about this band and this single at the 638 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: label with the publicist and the radio rep was about 639 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: like how to position them as like the bad boys 640 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 2: in this and like once you're in that territory, you're 641 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: probably not the bad boy. You're probably not or if 642 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 2: you are, like what does that even mean? Like you know, 643 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 2: it's like the thing about the sex pistols is like you, yeah, okay, 644 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: it's cool that there were some people to say saying 645 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 2: the word anarchy on the BBC, but at the end 646 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 2: of it was like, well, actually it was just like 647 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 2: a bunch of kids who didn't really know what the 648 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: hell they were doing, who being positioned by like two 649 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: masterminds that were like fashion industry visionaries, like do you 650 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, you get to a certain 651 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 2: point you're like, what's actually radical about this at all? 652 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 2: And again not that I think it's when you introduce 653 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 2: this stuff, you are allowed to ask these questions. When 654 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: this stuff comes, when you make the choice as an 655 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: artist and as a institution, we're able to bring this 656 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 2: stuff into the frame, well, then you're allowed to be 657 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 2: interrogated about it. One of the things that I think 658 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: is so cool about what I thought was so cool 659 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 2: with Rage before they got back together, is that Zach 660 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 2: sort of who was in a lot of ways like 661 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 2: the leftist left most left leftist in that band, was like, Oh, 662 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: this project doesn't actually serve my mission statement, Like I 663 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 2: actually want this shit to happen, and our band has 664 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: done nothing to make that happen. So I'm just gonna 665 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: not do it anymore. And I think and then he 666 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 2: like went and like lived with the Zapatistas down it 667 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 2: or like you know these he was like, that's he's 668 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 2: about it, that guy, And there's and I'm not saying 669 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 2: I'm not fucking out in the streets doing it, you 670 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like I have a very complicated 671 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 2: internal relationship to my own sort of political identity. But 672 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 2: I always admired that, and then you know, at some 673 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: point maybe he was like, it's I need Whether it's 674 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 2: as simple, he's allowed to be like I need some money, 675 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 2: he's also allowed to be like, I'm miss playing music 676 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 2: with those people, and he's also allowed to be like, well, 677 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: maybe I'll try again, you know what I mean. And 678 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 2: I thought it was cool that they came back and 679 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: did that. But that guy I believe has the courage 680 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 2: of his convictions. I don't even know that there's convictions 681 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 2: to have courage about in this song. I think it's 682 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 2: just like a bit of role playing. And you know, 683 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 2: maybe that's not for me to say, but I uh, 684 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: you know, it's also a very approachable song. Great chorus, 685 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 2: Yeah no, no tenacious D in the half of the 686 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 2: half of the D in. 687 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: The VID half the D. I want to go back 688 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: a little bit what you said, because I think I 689 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: think we're dancing around a sort of the way to 690 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: sort of make a message, and it's weird to do 691 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: something like this. Probably, I don't know, maybe ten years 692 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: or eight years after, maybe longer. Shenad O'Connor on SNL, Right, 693 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: ten years, yeah, ten years, right, A moment like that 694 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: is so is trying to raise awareness. Like even still today, 695 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: people are like, that's crazy. 696 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 2: You know when you see it, it's shocking. I watched 697 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 2: that like once a year to remind myself of it's 698 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 2: the coolest thing I've ever seen somebody do in that 699 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 2: context ever, and real stakes, real steaks. 700 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: She got people, and people will go people. So there's 701 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: there's a lot of camps. There's people who see that 702 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: and go, I can't fucking believe that, and they don't 703 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: want to know why she did it. And there are 704 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: people who are like, that's interesting, I want to see why, 705 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: and then they make that decision for themselves to look 706 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: it up and see how they feel about why. And 707 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that's what you should set out to 708 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: do with with like art that is trying to raise awareness. Right. 709 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: And I'll say this, I sometimes talk about your music, 710 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: but there's been a lot of times in my life 711 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: that you've song lyrics you wrote have raised awareness to 712 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: topics and that I'm like, oh, I didn't really know 713 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: I felt that way, but now I feel that way, 714 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: and I oh, I'm so I'm going to look into 715 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: this a little bit more, and I think you've done 716 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: such a good Yeah, but from all the way from 717 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: when I first heard your music, like it was like 718 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: Whistling Dixie and songs that are I'm like, I didn't 719 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: know I even felt that way, but I feel the 720 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: same way. And I think like there is such a 721 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: it's a missed opportunity that if you really did want 722 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: to say something about wealth inequality. 723 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, like what is this even? But that's the thing. 724 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 2: I'm like, what is this even saying? It's like saying 725 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 2: like we're good, We're not rich people. We're not celebrities. 726 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 2: I know we are rich people in our celebrities, but 727 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: we're not really and we're with you guys, and let's 728 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 2: go get them, like this is nothing. This isn't a thing, 729 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 2: this isn't a state thing. 730 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: So get them. The funniest part, like it's so funny, 731 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: it's like with it. Everyone's like, yeah, let's get them. 732 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: And then they're like in the house. 733 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like wait, that's exactly and maybe this is 734 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 2: a good place we used to wrap it up, like 735 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 2: I think you actually in in Look when someone's like, 736 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 2: can't we just like things, can't we just have fun? 737 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 2: We totally. Can you've totally. There's a million things I 738 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: just like and that are just fun. This is trying 739 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: to have its cake and eat it too. It wants 740 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: to be a fun, approachable, sugary pop punk song that 741 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 2: also wants to wear the clothes of saying something but 742 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: doesn't actually say anything. It's much better. It's just a 743 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 2: sugary pop punk song with like some cool sounds in it. 744 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 2: Like that's a much better thing. Once you actually get 745 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 2: in bed with the lyrics, you're like, oh, this is bullshit. 746 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 2: And when you put it next to something like like 747 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,359 Speaker 2: I could do an hour on the sinad O'Connor sn thing, 748 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 2: it's the thing. It to me, it is like the 749 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 2: thing against which every fucking thing like this should be 750 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 2: measured forever. Because it more or less ended her like 751 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 2: that degree of her. She continued to be on a 752 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 2: major label. She continued to be a very successful artist, 753 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 2: very venerated artist, somebody who people but she also was 754 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 2: somebody who for the rest of her career had to 755 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 2: like deal with the fallout of that. 756 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: People looked at her as a ticking time bomb of 757 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: like what like, oh, I don't trust her, what is 758 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: she going to do? Right, Like there's like even even 759 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: if people agreed with her, they're like, look, there's brands 760 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: involved in this. Like people are like, that's a liability, yo. 761 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 2: And the thing that I'll always remember about that and 762 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 2: we should is like the next week, Madonna was the 763 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 2: musical guest or something, or I think Joe Pesh was 764 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 2: the host, and he said we should. He would smack 765 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 2: her in the face if he saw her, and then 766 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 2: Madonna ripped up a picture of Joey. But ifuco like this, 767 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 2: look that up. If you don't know what that was, 768 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 2: it was like the Long Island Lolita, some trashy tabloid 769 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: story and to fight the real enemy and like kind 770 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: of like condemned her. 771 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: You know. 772 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 2: It was like and this is like, you know, noted 773 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 2: feminist icon, you know, Madonna, and I just I remember 774 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 2: thinking like, wow, she really And the other side of that, though, 775 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 2: is people like Bikini Kill, legions and generations of punk people, 776 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,360 Speaker 2: especially female identifying people, seeing that moment and being like, 777 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 2: like it activated I just got goosebumps. It like activated 778 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of people to be like, oh, yo, 779 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 2: stand for what you actually believe in, because like this 780 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,720 Speaker 2: person just did it. Live in front of millions of people, 781 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 2: and if you watch that video, the audience is it 782 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 2: is very rare that this is literally true. They are 783 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 2: stunned into silence. It's totally silent, and I just can't 784 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,959 Speaker 2: think of something that's more. And also, by the way, 785 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 2: not to be she was right fifteen years early, right 786 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 2: about something that became like a global scandal and a 787 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 2: OSCAR winning industrially codified fucking movie. She was fifteen years 788 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 2: ahead of everybody on that. So anyway, that being said, 789 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 2: a nice song by good Charlotte, very fun tune, but 790 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 2: it doesn't pass the Shanade test for O k D. 791 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: But I will listen to it and laugh and it 792 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: on that level too. Okay, greats so fun