Speaker 1: W. C. Fields once said he would like his epitat
Speaker 1: to read I'd rather be living in Philadelphia, which was
Speaker 1: his actual birthplace. Um, but actually I would rather be
Speaker 1: living in Philadelphia at least this week where the Democratic
Speaker 1: National Convention is being held, because it has been a
Speaker 1: fascinating experience, not only to be here, but in Cleveland
Speaker 1: last week. Brian, how does this compare to other conventions
Speaker 1: you've witnessed? This is much different. I mean, on one level,
Speaker 1: it's the same. There are the logistical issues, there's getting
Speaker 1: around a convention hall. There's all that stuff, the role call,
Speaker 1: the funny outfits, the buttons, the pens, which I always
Speaker 1: love from the great state of Delaware, where the ice
Speaker 1: cream bars or coldest, where the orange juice is sweetest.
Speaker 1: But on another level, this is really a strange campaign
Speaker 1: because even though we're in Philadelphia for the Democrats, all
Speaker 1: anybody's talking about Donald Trump. I built the business, and
Speaker 1: I didn't start it with a million dollar check from
Speaker 1: my father. Safeguarding freedom and security is not like posting
Speaker 1: a TV reality show. This guy doesn't have a clue
Speaker 1: about the middle class, not a clue. This is not
Speaker 1: like any campaign I've seen or I've ever read about
Speaker 1: in history. It's something we're going to be talking about
Speaker 1: with our guest Frank Lentz, who's coming up in a minute.
Speaker 1: Frank is a Republican pollster. He's also part time comedian
Speaker 1: or a wannabe. We tease him and call him checky,
Speaker 1: but he's got a million jokes. In fact, we could
Speaker 1: hardly get him out of the studio without him telling
Speaker 1: us some Chris Christie jokes which I will not repeat,
Speaker 1: and a Bill Clinton joker too. He was fair and balanced,
Speaker 1: like Fox News where he works and CVS. He's quick
Speaker 1: to point out, yes, even his media contracts are are balanced.
Speaker 1: But we should just tell you a little bit about him,
Speaker 1: because even though you may not have heard his name,
Speaker 1: I think you're going to be the earlier with some
Speaker 1: of his work. He's really come up with the words
Speaker 1: that have really defined our politics over the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: So when we say climate change rather than global warming,
Speaker 1: when we say death tax rather than a state tax,
Speaker 1: energy exploration instead of oil drilling. He's really helped Republicans
Speaker 1: over the years try to position their policy a little
Speaker 1: bit differently to appeal to more voters. His critics believe
Speaker 1: that you know, he's creating a misleading impression. He's he's
Speaker 1: steering the voters to believe something that isn't true. His
Speaker 1: supporters say, this is what's happened in politics throughout history,
Speaker 1: and he's just a very effective strategist. We'll talk to
Speaker 1: him about being sort of the official GOP wordsmith, but
Speaker 1: also about the mood of the country because Frank travels everywhere.
Speaker 1: He's talked to so many people over the past several months,
Speaker 1: and I think he has his finger on the pulse,
Speaker 1: perhaps better than almost anyone. So I can't wait to
Speaker 1: year from him so he can share with us what
Speaker 1: people are sharing with him. Frank Lens is in the house.
Speaker 1: I know I'm in trouble, doctor, Frank leans, we should
Speaker 1: get the full title. That's right, you have a PhD. Right,
Speaker 1: According to Bill Maher, he wasn't quite sure. Frank Lean says,
Speaker 1: over here, and doctor doctor, it's great to see your doctor.
Speaker 1: I know we just watched that boy. He was tough
Speaker 1: on you. Frank was that hard? It was awful. It
Speaker 1: was awful. It was awful because I had come on
Speaker 1: to be candid. I had come on to have a
Speaker 1: real conversation, not take a partisan position. I was specifically
Speaker 1: told by the executive producer, don't tell jokes. That's not
Speaker 1: let be serious, be be open, be candid, And every
Speaker 1: time I tried to do it, it was another Trump
Speaker 1: joke and another Trump jokes. What's going on? I saw
Speaker 1: all week? It is now tied Trump and Hillary forty forty.
Speaker 1: Explain this to me how and in saying racist and
Speaker 1: orange grease paint can be tied with the former First Lady.
Speaker 1: And I kept waiting for the real conversation to happen,
Speaker 1: and it never did. Well. Clearly he viscerated you because
Speaker 1: you are associated with Republicans and Bill is clearly a
Speaker 1: liberal Democrat. So I think it wasn't necessarily a match
Speaker 1: made in Heaven from the get go, right, but it was.
Speaker 1: I said to his executive producer that he blew a
Speaker 1: good opportunity because there are times, just as you have
Speaker 1: comedies that have a very serious show. There's humor in it,
Speaker 1: but they deal with a serious topic. I was ready
Speaker 1: to really open up, and I'm not doing that again.
Speaker 1: I learned from this politics does not and media does
Speaker 1: not reward candor. It does not reward the truth. It
Speaker 1: rewards a real articulated, well explained facts and information. But
Speaker 1: if you are being reflective, you are punished for it
Speaker 1: and you are not celebrated for it. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like your version of the Colonel Jessu. You can't handle
Speaker 1: the truth, no, because that's entertainment. Yeah, you're actually trying
Speaker 1: to describe what you're seeing in the country because you
Speaker 1: do more focus groups than probably any other professional in America.
Speaker 1: I'm the closest thing to a mayor, but I'm a
Speaker 1: mayor For the company's group of eighteen women to Studio
Speaker 1: fifty seven yesterday and included six Republicans, six Democrats, and
Speaker 1: six independents, and they did not find much common ground.
Speaker 1: Every night, I'm seeing or thirty new people every night,
Speaker 1: I'm learning what bothers them. I'm learning their challenges and
Speaker 1: their hopes and dreams and and it's all positive or negative,
Speaker 1: but I'm hearing it in reality. So let's start with
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I want a word or phrase for you
Speaker 1: all to describe Donald Trump patriot, clown show, hate monger.
Speaker 1: And so every night when I go to sleep, I
Speaker 1: take that with me. It doesn't leave me. And in fact,
Speaker 1: you don't seem like a happy camper right now, because
Speaker 1: I guess the things you're hearing out there in the
Speaker 1: country are not happy. When I started this back in
Speaker 1: I don't know there was Ross Perot who I worked with. UM.
Speaker 1: Even the anger had its borders that you would disagree
Speaker 1: with somebody, but you would not take them outo the
Speaker 1: wood shed. Today, in our current political environment, there are
Speaker 1: no limits. You have the right to get into someone's
Speaker 1: face and scream at them. You have the right on
Speaker 1: national television to insult them. You have the right not
Speaker 1: to stop at the commercial break, but to continue to
Speaker 1: pontificate because you've got the right to be heard. This
Speaker 1: is one collective temper tantrum. And for me and I
Speaker 1: never went through this, it is like mom and dad
Speaker 1: fighting with each other, and I have to make the
Speaker 1: choice who I'm going to live with for the next
Speaker 1: four years. I don't want to live with either of them.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's rough. Can I ask you a question.
Speaker 1: We we've talked about this a lot. Why are people
Speaker 1: so angry? Because if you look at so many of
Speaker 1: the indicators, the economy has been growing for seven years.
Speaker 1: Unemployments below five cut in half since President Obama took office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: wages are stagnant there, they're not rising like they used to.
Speaker 1: H Long term unemployments a larger challenge, but we face
Speaker 1: far worse in the past. Why are people so uniquely
Speaker 1: angry now? Because the three people who are sitting at
Speaker 1: this table do not feel any economic suffering at all,
Speaker 1: and that if any of us lost our jobs or
Speaker 1: something went wrong, we'd be okay. For fifteen or of America,
Speaker 1: they are doing great. And the truth is the wealthy
Speaker 1: shouldn't be angry with Barack Obama. They should embrace him
Speaker 1: because this has been the best time for them. The
Speaker 1: people who are suffering, and I say this as someone
Speaker 1: who's right of center, the people who are suffering are
Speaker 1: the working class. They had forty hour a week jobs
Speaker 1: ten years ago. Today it's twenty eight hours a week
Speaker 1: because their employer is trying to avoid paying for health
Speaker 1: care even though they claim that healthcare and it has
Speaker 1: uh provided care for eight to ten million people who
Speaker 1: did not have it before. There's six to eight million
Speaker 1: people who lost their health care and almost everyone has
Speaker 1: seen it increased significantly the cost. We no longer believe
Speaker 1: that our employers will be there for us ten years
Speaker 1: from now. We have no faith in our retirements. Social
Speaker 1: Security doesn't pay for anything, and so if you are
Speaker 1: a family of four at about fifty two fifty four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year, you have no savings, you have
Speaker 1: no safety net, and you have no future. And if
Speaker 1: you're in your fifties or sixties, you have no opportunity
Speaker 1: to fix it. So I'm living through the fact that
Speaker 1: some of the things that I believed as recently as
Speaker 1: a few years ago have proven not to be true.
Speaker 1: And both sides are failing. And I'll make one last point.
Speaker 1: I apologize for no it's fascinating, which is that it's
Speaker 1: all right, But this is this is my life every day,
Speaker 1: which is I don't want to live in a country
Speaker 1: tree that is in decline. I went to Oxford, I
Speaker 1: got my defail from Oxford University, and I talked to
Speaker 1: these kids whose parents were in charge of the world,
Speaker 1: not grandparents, but parents. I don't want to be them.
Speaker 1: I will give up, and I've done well. I will
Speaker 1: give it up for a country that is happy and
Speaker 1: healthy and progressing, a country where most people do get
Speaker 1: to experience their dreams if they work hard and play
Speaker 1: by the rules. But that's not America right now. And
Speaker 1: so I I jokingly say I'm moving to New Zealand,
Speaker 1: the southern Island because the weather is good, people are great.
Speaker 1: But it's becoming less and less of a joke. I
Speaker 1: can understand that, and it's it is difficult because I
Speaker 1: do think the three people at this table are detached
Speaker 1: from reality on many levels. Brian told me about a
Speaker 1: statistic that what percentage Brian of people cannot deal with
Speaker 1: an unexpected four expense? For I think it's about the
Speaker 1: American people. This was a study from the Federal Reserve
Speaker 1: would not be able to afford an unexpected four expense.
Speaker 1: I think people are really really hurting, and and yet
Speaker 1: there seems to be two America's in many ways. So
Speaker 1: is this solvable? I mean, can a president really change
Speaker 1: all of this? And are there limits to a presidential power?
Speaker 1: It was solvable in two thousand eight, Barack Obama had
Speaker 1: the capability. And I'll just illustrate this with what I
Speaker 1: saw on January nine. I came to the inauguration. I
Speaker 1: was not a supporter of his, and I saw fifteen
Speaker 1: year old um inner city youths helping seven year old
Speaker 1: women with mink coats and diamonds that are worth more
Speaker 1: than this studio helping them across this area because there
Speaker 1: were barriers and all sorts of security, and I saw
Speaker 1: people who have never talked to each other before ever
Speaker 1: have the most amazing conversations. And on that day I
Speaker 1: actually thought, Wow, this guy is going to be transformational.
Speaker 1: And it went to hell so fast. You surely can't
Speaker 1: put it all on his shoulders. Aren't there greater forces
Speaker 1: at work here? Frank like globalization, this transition we're witnessing
Speaker 1: from an industrial to a technological society, the fact that
Speaker 1: you can't necessarily go into your father's business as a
Speaker 1: as a blue collar worker because manufacturing has has declined.
Speaker 1: In some cases, yes, it's been moved overseas, but in
Speaker 1: some cases it's been replaced by technology and robots. So
Speaker 1: I mean, aren't there bigger things that are affecting this
Speaker 1: this sort of summer of our discontent? But this country
Speaker 1: went through a global war that we possibly could have lost,
Speaker 1: and we came out of it stronger. We went through
Speaker 1: two global wars in the twentieth century. We have had
Speaker 1: we have we have went from the horse and buggy
Speaker 1: to the car. I'm not saying there aren't things that
Speaker 1: you can do. But I'm just saying, can you blame
Speaker 1: all these things? I'm President Obama. I was going to
Speaker 1: cite Nancy Pelosi. Republicans could not meet with her. I
Speaker 1: did not know this at the time. She would not
Speaker 1: meet with a Republican. A Republican could not carry legislation,
Speaker 1: a Republican could not offer an amendment, a Republican could
Speaker 1: not lead a debate. They were completely and totally cut off.
Speaker 1: So when I actually got a chance to ask questions
Speaker 1: of them, and this wasn't this It took till two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve. I do not interview a single Republican who
Speaker 1: had a single meeting in her office, not one. Democrats
Speaker 1: were told, do not talk to them, do not engage
Speaker 1: with them, do not allow them to co sponsor legislation.
Speaker 1: It's our turn now. And that is that after they
Speaker 1: said things like we our goal is to make sure
Speaker 1: Barack Obama has a one term presidency. Though that was
Speaker 1: January five of two thousand seven, before Barack Obama is
Speaker 1: even president. If you remember, the two thousand sixth election
Speaker 1: is what brought Nancy Pelosi the speakership, not two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, and so all that poison had been unleashed,
Speaker 1: and the one that the Democrats used to just really
Speaker 1: hate New Engrich new Gangwich set aside. Every single day,
Speaker 1: every day of his speakership, he met with Democrats, which
Speaker 1: used to drive Republicans nuts. In fact, to actually go
Speaker 1: back and correct history. Newt was almost overthrown by Republicans,
Speaker 1: not by Democrats, and the Republicans who are trying to
Speaker 1: overthrow him were angry with him for spending too much
Speaker 1: time with the other party. Wasn't it the contract with America?
Speaker 1: And that he kind of the chickens came home to
Speaker 1: roost after he suggested what many people saw as draconian measures.
Speaker 1: You mean what Bill Clinton talked about at his convention
Speaker 1: speech about welfare reform, that after years and years, they
Speaker 1: both they actually agreed, they compromised, that they compromised on
Speaker 1: legislation that balanced the budget, that you had a Democratic
Speaker 1: president and a Republican Congress that actually brought the budget
Speaker 1: into legitimate balance. That you had a Democratic president and
Speaker 1: a Republican Congress that actually got welfare reform and put
Speaker 1: people back to work. It can work. And gang which
Speaker 1: is not the easiest guy to get along with, and
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton is not a walk in the park, and
Speaker 1: yet they got it done. And we don't have that
Speaker 1: right now. But both parties have a kind of a
Speaker 1: partisan disaster narrative when things took a turn, So like sore,
Speaker 1: she's too happy that you're explaining why I feel the
Speaker 1: way that I do. So I'm here at the Democratic Convention.
Speaker 1: They're treating me great. Well, let's talk about being here
Speaker 1: at the Democratic National Convention. What are your thoughts in
Speaker 1: terms of what you've seen so far. I don't understand
Speaker 1: why the Clinton campaign didn't turn to the Sanders people
Speaker 1: and say stop the protests. You're making us look foolish.
Speaker 1: At the Republican Convention, they booed Ted Cruz and that
Speaker 1: lasted for twenty four seconds and that was it. That's
Speaker 1: one Number two is I refuse, I absolutely refuse to
Speaker 1: demonize any of these people, because if you have a
Speaker 1: conversation with them, either Clinton or Sanders, there is a
Speaker 1: there is both a fear and a hope and a
Speaker 1: commitment to something better. I don't like it when the
Speaker 1: two conventions for four nights just abuse each other. You
Speaker 1: have every right to hold Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: accountable for what they have said and what they have done.
Speaker 1: But it gets so extreme. You know when when people
Speaker 1: were talking about the Republican Convention and particularly Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: acceptance speech, they used words like dark, depressing, dystopian, and
Speaker 1: yet it played much better in the real world. Is
Speaker 1: that because people are feeling dark and depressed? It's because
Speaker 1: people they felt that he told the truth and that's
Speaker 1: what they want more than anything else. They just want
Speaker 1: you to look them straight in the eye. Don't be
Speaker 1: politically correct, don't be gentle, tell us the truth. Now
Speaker 1: you have basically of the country that still is positive
Speaker 1: and hopeful. You have to believe our best days are
Speaker 1: behind us, and there's the that's in the middle. Trump
Speaker 1: was specifically appealing to those and basically saying, they're not
Speaker 1: going to tell you the way things are. I will.
Speaker 1: You may not like it, but I'm going to be
Speaker 1: direct with you. And yet, do you think the solutions
Speaker 1: that he's providing are specific enough and realistic? At some point,
Speaker 1: aren't people going to be saying where's the beef? I
Speaker 1: mean when he has a responsibility in the debates to
Speaker 1: do that, but just in the debates. But the first
Speaker 1: step is to tell the truth. The first step is
Speaker 1: to articulate how people feel. But you're telling you that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump telling the truth. I mean, the fact checkers
Speaker 1: kind of went nuts during his speech because he was
Speaker 1: describing crime out of control immigrants is uh, you know,
Speaker 1: modern mob of of violence around the country. He was
Speaker 1: describing unemployment as it as far worse than it actually is.
Speaker 1: Is he trying to create the prices? But it's America's
Speaker 1: version of the truth. This is how Americans feel. And
Speaker 1: so every time that the Obama administration says, hey, we've
Speaker 1: turned the corner, things are getting see the Obama people
Speaker 1: don't feel it. And the problem is people in a bubble. Uh,
Speaker 1: when's the last time that you had a meal at Denny's.
Speaker 1: It's been a long time. I admit I prefer waffle House.
Speaker 1: Have you do you really go there? Sometimes? I live
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and I go to some of these
Speaker 1: cheaper face and there's no reason for me too, but
Speaker 1: it's what I do, and I probably stop going to
Speaker 1: those cheap things. Look at me. I basically it's like
Speaker 1: I like being around Chris Christie because then I look
Speaker 1: like the after photo rather than the before. And you know,
Speaker 1: I know, Jackie Love, I'm not sure you're going to
Speaker 1: be able to make that claim. I'm I'm going to explode,
Speaker 1: But I see the people who are there, and when
Speaker 1: I'm up, when I'm getting food is the best time
Speaker 1: because people's guards are down. And to ask them, why
Speaker 1: did you choose here? Why are you at this hotel?
Speaker 1: And the answer is, we can't afford a vacation. This
Speaker 1: is the only place that we can afford. And we
Speaker 1: drove here. We drove here from Phoenix, we drove here
Speaker 1: from Los Angeles, we drove here from San Diego. They
Speaker 1: can't even afford We always assume, right that when you
Speaker 1: work hard, you get one week or two weeks off
Speaker 1: and you take your family somewhere. This is all that
Speaker 1: they can do because they can get a hotel room
Speaker 1: for forty nine dollars a night that the whole family
Speaker 1: can have a big meal for under sixty bucks. And
Speaker 1: that's and when gas prices were at four dollars a gallant,
Speaker 1: they couldn't even do that. Let's talk about why they're
Speaker 1: attracted to Donald Trump, because I know, in many ways
Speaker 1: he's a vessel or proxy for the anger and frustration
Speaker 1: and resentment that many people are feeling. I get that,
Speaker 1: But then don't you need to take a step further.
Speaker 1: What will he do? How is he going to change things?
Speaker 1: And it's these broad, broad strokes, But that's the problem.
Speaker 1: Frank just wrote a card and I just wrote the word.
Speaker 1: But so everyone listens. I used the word ass on
Speaker 1: Hannity yesterday, which would have got me into trouble, except
Speaker 1: one of the Benghazi guys used the effort after me,
Speaker 1: so then everyone forgot that. I think they asked, is
Speaker 1: the mascot of the Democratic Party? Yes, and I and
Speaker 1: I fill up the chairs with mine. So it's always
Speaker 1: the butt and these people listen to the Trump voter
Speaker 1: listens for the button. To my surprise, when Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has asked the question about Rosey o'donald in that first debate,
Speaker 1: and I thought he was done, I admit it. I
Speaker 1: thought it was over between John McCain and and Mexican
Speaker 1: rapists and all of that. I thought he was done.
Speaker 1: Political correctness matters so much to these people, and the
Speaker 1: fact that he's willing to say things unedited, uncensored, just
Speaker 1: put it out there. It agitates people what he says,
Speaker 1: but they're so grateful that he says it. And now
Speaker 1: look at the reverse. Hillary Clinton hasn't delivered a traumatic line,
Speaker 1: hasn't stepped outside her comfort comfort zone. Ever, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: runs to the TV cameras, she runs away from them.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump never delivers a prepared speech, except for what
Speaker 1: three times now in the whole campaign. She can't do
Speaker 1: anything but a prepared speech. He is way too loud,
Speaker 1: she's way too careful. He's way too out there. She's
Speaker 1: way too controlled. And for the average American, they want
Speaker 1: to look you in the eye, which is why instance
Speaker 1: people take their sunglasses off. They want to look you
Speaker 1: in the eye and decide do you really mean it?
Speaker 1: With Donald Trump, they believe that for all his faults,
Speaker 1: he's a real guy. They believed that for Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: that for all her experience, she's not and that is
Speaker 1: what could prevent her from being president. We want authenticity,
Speaker 1: what about experience and confidence? Experience is less important than judgment.
Speaker 1: Tell me what you're going to do, not what you've
Speaker 1: done already. She's done the sort of traditional thing that
Speaker 1: you do in campaigns, and maybe that doesn't work anymore where.
Speaker 1: She has a big policy team, and they put out
Speaker 1: numbers and they send it to analysts and the newspaper reporters,
Speaker 1: you know, pick it apart. Trump has put out tweets
Speaker 1: and statements, some of which contradict each other, and they're tied.
Speaker 1: And and what does that tell you want to hear
Speaker 1: about programs? People want to hear about platitudes. No, they
Speaker 1: want to hear they want to know who you are.
Speaker 1: If she had come clean on the Clinton Global Initiative,
Speaker 1: if she did an interview and I'm going to be
Speaker 1: specific with Leslie stall On sixty minutes, and Leslie was
Speaker 1: the way she usually is, which is tough but fair,
Speaker 1: and she were to say, I am far from perfect,
Speaker 1: and I have made significant mistakes in my career. But
Speaker 1: I asked that you examine the balance. I asked that
Speaker 1: you look at the things that I got wrong and
Speaker 1: compared to the things that I got right. And it
Speaker 1: is essential that I level with the American people because
Speaker 1: I'm asking them for their support. If she did that,
Speaker 1: she is the next president. If Donald Trump announces on
Speaker 1: day one that he will conduct a forensic audit of
Speaker 1: the US budget and brought in Deloitte Ian why KPMG
Speaker 1: brought in the brought in the big and within one
Speaker 1: d days, we will go through every line and we
Speaker 1: will cut every single program that doesn't work, and if
Speaker 1: you are responsible for that program, you will be looking
Speaker 1: for work. He's the next president. She needs to level,
Speaker 1: she needs to be candid, humble, He needs to be
Speaker 1: specific with one program that bothers the American people more
Speaker 1: than anything else. Waste, government waste, Washington waste even more
Speaker 1: than government waste, because people they don't have issues as
Speaker 1: much with their local community or even their state government.
Speaker 1: What they hate is when Washington does it. But he
Speaker 1: hasn't done it, and she hasn't done it, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if either of them will do it. And
Speaker 1: so I go across the country. I eat in my Denny's,
Speaker 1: I go to my buffets, and I get depressed. And
Speaker 1: every once in a while I get to come to
Speaker 1: a Philadelphia and then get hot and depressed. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the of you. Why do you
Speaker 1: think Hillary Clinton isn't doing more of what you said?
Speaker 1: Why didn't she apologize immediately after the email scandal and
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, I screwed up. This was
Speaker 1: so this was a stupid but honest mistake, and I'm
Speaker 1: not even asking and not even suggesting she needs to
Speaker 1: use that word, because I know that there'll be people
Speaker 1: who would hear this podcast and say she has nothing
Speaker 1: to apologize for. But she did make a mistake. She
Speaker 1: said she mistakes. If I were her campaign manager, I
Speaker 1: would tell her to lower the podium as she walks
Speaker 1: out onto the stage, have the podium go down slowly,
Speaker 1: and say to the audience, into the world, my name
Speaker 1: is Hillary Clinton. I have been a lawyer, a researcher,
Speaker 1: second Chary of State of an United States senator. I
Speaker 1: have prepared my entire life for what is arguably the
Speaker 1: toughest job on the face of the globe. And I
Speaker 1: don't need a teleprompter to tell you where I stand
Speaker 1: or what I will do. And then she delivers the
Speaker 1: speech that she has delivered without a podium, without that teleprompter,
Speaker 1: that's right out the center. She can do it. I
Speaker 1: was going to say, she's actually incredibly gifted, almost as
Speaker 1: good a speaker without notes as Bill Clinton is. I
Speaker 1: think she's just been so so careful during the course
Speaker 1: of this campaign. I mean I have seen her walk
Speaker 1: around a stage without a teleprompter, without notes and just
Speaker 1: dazzle an audience, the contrast between her and Trump. If
Speaker 1: she were to do this would be so significant, and
Speaker 1: she can absolutely do it, so why not Why do
Speaker 1: it the way it's always been done before? When you
Speaker 1: know that the American people desperately want you to look
Speaker 1: them straight in the eye. I think the visual of
Speaker 1: that would be very powerful. But I'm more interested in
Speaker 1: what the content of the speech is going to say.
Speaker 1: And the ch American isn't no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. I think that if she
Speaker 1: conveys true honesty and and humility and talks about you know,
Speaker 1: I think some of her flaws, perceived or real, I
Speaker 1: think it could be very moving as well. And I
Speaker 1: think what Franks saying, I think what Frank's saying this
Speaker 1: really interesting is the issues, the substance, the specific ten
Speaker 1: point plans, they don't matter very much to voters. Well,
Speaker 1: that's what David Brooks wrote about the other day. He
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, with Democrats, the answer to every
Speaker 1: problem is a program. But what Donald Trump is being
Speaker 1: so effective at is really really kind of measuring the
Speaker 1: mood of the country and calibrating his statements to to
Speaker 1: reflect that mood, and that the Democrats need to somehow
Speaker 1: do that too, and it's just not in their DNA.
Speaker 1: Their DNA is to be much more specific on policy
Speaker 1: points when they need to be more touchy feeling right, well,
Speaker 1: there will be a whole lot of Republicans would argue
Speaker 1: with that that their DNA is a government solution when
Speaker 1: they need to think more about how solutions are delivered
Speaker 1: on the local level, uh public private partnerships with a
Speaker 1: focus on the private rather than the public. That the
Speaker 1: problem with the Democrats is that they continue to focus
Speaker 1: on Washington, which has never been more in popular than
Speaker 1: it is right now. If that becomes the context, she
Speaker 1: represents the Washington solution, which she has for quarter century.
Speaker 1: Trump represents the American solution. Trump will beat her. If
Speaker 1: that's what the context is. What worries you most about
Speaker 1: a Clinton presidency or a Trump presidency. What worries me
Speaker 1: most about a Trump presidency is that I want to
Speaker 1: see more or knowledge. I want to see a better
Speaker 1: understanding of the consequences of every decision. The smartest political
Speaker 1: person I ever worked for was New Gingrich, and he
Speaker 1: could tell you that if we do A, then B
Speaker 1: and see, you're gonna happen, and if they happen, then
Speaker 1: that's going to impact D, E, N F. And you
Speaker 1: could go all the way through the alphabet. So he
Speaker 1: saw the impact. For example, if you're gonna do environmental
Speaker 1: legislation and say we will not build homes here, you
Speaker 1: cannot build twenty story tall apartments. Now what's the consequence
Speaker 1: of that. It means that you're then going to have
Speaker 1: to build sixty miles away. More cars are going to
Speaker 1: be on the road, so it's gonna put more C
Speaker 1: O two into the air. So then you say, okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna add a catalytic converters, so you have to
Speaker 1: address the pollution. So what does that do? Car prices
Speaker 1: go up. People can't afford it. They're gonna have to
Speaker 1: buy older cars, use cars. He knew the consequences of it.
Speaker 1: That's not what Trump does. And I really want someone
Speaker 1: now who if they say we have to do X,
Speaker 1: that they will know the consequences to Y and Z.
Speaker 1: He has said things like we're going to round up
Speaker 1: and deport eleven million illegal immigrants. Nobody believes that. I
Speaker 1: don't know if if Donald Trump gets elected, I'll be
Speaker 1: prepared to bet you right now that that never happens,
Speaker 1: and why is he saying it, and why doesn't it
Speaker 1: matter that he doesn't mean it? You need Donald Trump
Speaker 1: to answer those questions for you. When we did a
Speaker 1: session with Republicans and immigration. And by the way, Republicans
Speaker 1: want a pathway to legal status. Republicans do, Marco Rubio,
Speaker 1: Jeb Bush, But but average Republicans, grassroots Republicans. Republicans believe
Speaker 1: that if you were brought here through no fault of
Speaker 1: your own, if you're brought here as a child, you
Speaker 1: should be allowed to stay here as an adult, if
Speaker 1: you go to college and you have a job. Republicans
Speaker 1: believe that building a wall is not the answer to
Speaker 1: illegal immigration, although they do want genuine border security. But
Speaker 1: those weren't the Republicans who were nominated. It's Donald Trump
Speaker 1: that was nominated. And who who is for mass deportation
Speaker 1: in a wall. So how can you say, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, they want these sort of center right moderate positions,
Speaker 1: and on the other they nominate the person with the
Speaker 1: most extreme position because they keep electing members to Congress
Speaker 1: that really do want to get this resolved. They really
Speaker 1: do want solutions rather than platitudes, and rather than this anger,
Speaker 1: and they believe even as they voted for Once again,
Speaker 1: I come back to they wanted to vote for somebody
Speaker 1: who said it like it is. They wanted to vote
Speaker 1: for someone who wasn't Millie Mouth. There's someone who they
Speaker 1: thought that would buckle. And Trump is a tough, tough guy.
Speaker 1: So that's why they voted for him, even if they
Speaker 1: disagree with him on policies like immigration. There's a broader
Speaker 1: point you're making that. I think it's really interesting you
Speaker 1: said Trump is being rewarded for telling the truth, for
Speaker 1: saying it like it is, and yet so much of
Speaker 1: what he says is verifiably not the truth. It's the
Speaker 1: truth as he sees it. How do you square those two.
Speaker 1: They rewarded Hillary Clinton for have in the experience even
Speaker 1: though they absolutely agreed with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is
Speaker 1: the heart and soul of the Democratic Party today. Bernie
Speaker 1: Sanders agenda and platform is what a majority of Democrats believe.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that platform is electable at this point,
Speaker 1: but Bernie Sanders is the most popular and credible national
Speaker 1: politician alive today, even higher than John McCain, now, much
Speaker 1: higher than Barack Obama. Way higher than Hillary Clinton, are
Speaker 1: any of the Republicans? Jeff Bush, Mitt Romney, Bernie Sanders,
Speaker 1: an avowed socialist, is the most popular politician. And the
Speaker 1: reason why is because he said what he meant and
Speaker 1: meant what he said. And even though the public disagrees
Speaker 1: with all that free stuff he wants to give, they
Speaker 1: loved him for saying it because they thought he really
Speaker 1: believed it. It's the same thing with Trump, and the
Speaker 1: only reason why you don't say it is because you're
Speaker 1: not with them. You're not with these people. How many
Speaker 1: Trump rallies did you go to when you sat from
Speaker 1: beginning to end? I went to toning. That's not bad.
Speaker 1: How many you go to? Zero? Zero? You gotta go
Speaker 1: to one because the music is great if you like,
Speaker 1: if you like, uh, no, classic rock. He I gott
Speaker 1: admit something because and now I get animated. No, don't rap, No,
Speaker 1: we have to. I'm getting a note from our producer
Speaker 1: that I have seen everything, and I'm jaded and cynical.
Speaker 1: So I'm watching waiting for the rally, and people start
Speaker 1: to commend here it's it's about to begin. The most
Speaker 1: powerful guitar riff of any song, to me, is the
Speaker 1: opening of revolution. When John Lennon plays that screeching guitar,
Speaker 1: the moment that that song hit and I can't I
Speaker 1: can't say the moment the first chord. Trump steps up
Speaker 1: on stage and everyone goes nuts, and you hear and
Speaker 1: you think revolution, Donald Trump politics. And I felt it
Speaker 1: for the first time in this entire campaign. I felt it,
Speaker 1: as did people in the room. And that's what's going
Speaker 1: on right now. When Bernie Sanders takes the stage, the
Speaker 1: guy is so old that takes him an hour and
Speaker 1: a have to watch sixteen minutes. He's so old. His
Speaker 1: favorite painting is the last supper is the second waiter
Speaker 1: from the left. The only time he doesn't have to
Speaker 1: pee is when he's paying. That's how old this guy is.
Speaker 1: And and and but what did he do? He had
Speaker 1: twenty one year olds eating out of the palm of
Speaker 1: his hand. These rallies, they were all positive. People were
Speaker 1: so funny, even people who knew what I do and
Speaker 1: knew that I worked for Fox. They'd come over and
Speaker 1: they would ask me, is he gonna do okay? Is
Speaker 1: he gonna be okay? And I told them, I don't
Speaker 1: think he's gonna win. But your ideas are gonna win.
Speaker 1: Watch what happens. It's not just about the man, it's
Speaker 1: also about the principles. And his principles are changing the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party, which means they're going to change the country.
Speaker 1: And that and and young people were so tuned in
Speaker 1: on that. Do you think they're going to come out
Speaker 1: and support Hillary Clinton in the end. So right now
Speaker 1: it's se of Sanders, people support Clinton on decided supporting
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. She has to take that and bring it
Speaker 1: up to nine. She has to. If she does that,
Speaker 1: she's probably the next president. If it is below eighty five,
Speaker 1: she may well lose because states that matter, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada.
Speaker 1: These are states where it's very close. And if you're
Speaker 1: losing your own base, then you're going to have a challenge.
Speaker 1: I believe she wins at this point, but I'm but
Speaker 1: I'm also convinced that Trump could win if he runs
Speaker 1: a solid campaign and does well in the debates. President
Speaker 1: Obama said is much this week in an interview. I
Speaker 1: have to ask you what you're most afraid of when
Speaker 1: it comes to a Clinton presidency. Um, I'm most afraid
Speaker 1: that this partisanship and this rancor gets even worse. She's
Speaker 1: known for reaching across the aisle. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: being a Hillary apologist, but I'm not. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is when she was senator.
Speaker 1: That's again, in addition to being a good listener. One
Speaker 1: of the things they tout about her governance that she
Speaker 1: does work with Republicans. She understands the schmooze factor, having
Speaker 1: a drink in the Oval office with with those who
Speaker 1: may think differently than she does. Bill Clinton talked about
Speaker 1: Tom Delay at the Democratic Convention, and I'm sitting next
Speaker 1: to Antonio via Rigosa and I said, my god, you
Speaker 1: would never have heard Tom DeLay's name mentioned at a
Speaker 1: Republican convention. That's right, because he was an adoptive father, right,
Speaker 1: he adopted a child. But he's being celebrated at the
Speaker 1: Democratic convention. And then who's the next name? He mentions,
Speaker 1: new Gingrich never once mentioned at the Republican convention. So
Speaker 1: here is Bill Clinton celebrating these conservative Republicans at the
Speaker 1: Democratic I'm thinking, man, my coludes are kicking back up again.
Speaker 1: And explained so much, Frank, and it's like, don't do
Speaker 1: the edible from Colorado. Guys. By the way, I've got
Speaker 1: one piece of advice as a way to close this.
Speaker 1: Don't buy the marijuana licenses in Colorado. Buy the pizza
Speaker 1: parlor licenses right next door. That's how you'll make money.
Speaker 1: Or that's that's good. Also, can I ask one to
Speaker 1: last political questions? So there's a theory right now among
Speaker 1: a lot of political professionals that you win by pumping
Speaker 1: up your base, that it's a retro idea to reach
Speaker 1: to swing voters in the center. And that's a big
Speaker 1: divide in our politics between those who believe in just
Speaker 1: going for the base and those who want to appeal
Speaker 1: to swing voters. Where do you come out on that?
Speaker 1: I come out on trying to basically blur the lines
Speaker 1: between base and center. And so I'm trying to reach
Speaker 1: six of the country or seventy of the country, not
Speaker 1: fifty one, and obviously not a hundred. I know that
Speaker 1: people are going to disagree with me. I accept that.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to be enemies of mine. I
Speaker 1: want them to be opponents. And that's where we've gotten
Speaker 1: it wrong. We now think that the people who we
Speaker 1: don't appeal to our our enemy. We have to lower
Speaker 1: the decipline level so they see us as people that
Speaker 1: we disagree with, but not as people that should be
Speaker 1: punished or destroyed. The rap on you, I guess in
Speaker 1: some circles is that you have inflame some of this
Speaker 1: divisiveness with words that work and words that work. So
Speaker 1: how does that inflame? Well, you know, because they sometimes
Speaker 1: misrepresent rather than school choice. I'm the one who argued
Speaker 1: for parental choice or moving from UH vouchers to scholarships.
Speaker 1: And you know why, because you can afford to send
Speaker 1: your kids to any school they want to go to.
Speaker 1: But the kids that I really want to help, the
Speaker 1: ones that actually need that opportunity, they can't, and I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that parental involvement, parental control happens.
Speaker 1: Another example is is in terms of taxation, I don't
Speaker 1: believe you should be taxed. I don't believe that you're
Speaker 1: the product of your success should be taken away from
Speaker 1: you because you die. So it was moved from in
Speaker 1: the state tax to a death tax. This is what
Speaker 1: you've said, Frank on emotion versus rationality and facts. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious because I think it's very relevant to this election.
Speaker 1: It's all emotion. But there's nothing wrong with emotion when
Speaker 1: we are in love. We are not rational, We are emotional.
Speaker 1: My job is to look for the words that triggered
Speaker 1: the emotion. We know that words and emotion together are
Speaker 1: the most powerful force known to mankind. So you make
Speaker 1: no apologies for coming up with these trigger words if
Speaker 1: you will that make people feel a certain way. By
Speaker 1: the way, Bill Clinton does it. Bill Clinton is the
Speaker 1: best at it. I'm watching him yesterday. This. I learned
Speaker 1: my craft, not from New Gingrich Katie. I learned my
Speaker 1: craft from Bill Clinton because he better than anyone I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, including Ronald Reagan. When he draped his hands
Speaker 1: over that podium and his voice would get like why
Speaker 1: would his voice get like this? You know why, because
Speaker 1: he wants to be emotional. His normal voice is this.
Speaker 1: But no, he gets like this because he cares so much.
Speaker 1: And all I'd say is, if it's good enough for
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, and it's good enough for Ronald Reagan, it's
Speaker 1: good enough for America. But on the other hand, but
Speaker 1: there's the word again, but that's good. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, you know, Clinton lied about his affair with
Speaker 1: Monica Winsky. You won the PolitiFact Lie of the Year
Speaker 1: award for describing Obamacare as a government takeover. So I
Speaker 1: think the critique of you, and by the way, what
Speaker 1: happened after a year after when it actually when it
Speaker 1: is that a number? If you did your Google search,
Speaker 1: you'd see that a number of newspapers wrote that, in fact,
Speaker 1: I was correct, six million people lost their coverage. That
Speaker 1: is a government ego of healthcare when they actually acknowledge, Well, no,
Speaker 1: maybe you can't necessarily keep your doctor. In reality, but
Speaker 1: that's not what you said. Was all that you said
Speaker 1: it was a government takeover. It's not a government takeover.
Speaker 1: It was a plan that was developed at the Conservative
Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation. Look, once again, you are speaking in ways
Speaker 1: that the American people do not feel. They cannot afford
Speaker 1: your coat, they cannot afford your shirt. Does that give
Speaker 1: you license to manipulate? Manipulate? It is the true incite
Speaker 1: people to think things when they're not necessarily So you
Speaker 1: think you think Obamacare is a tremendous success. No, do
Speaker 1: you think Obamacare eight to ten million people were now insured,
Speaker 1: they would call it a success. I think for the
Speaker 1: other people who lost their insurance or their premiums went up,
Speaker 1: it is not. Yes, And I have many friends who
Speaker 1: have complained about that it is not a success. So
Speaker 1: net net, I guess it's pretty neutral. Well, it depends
Speaker 1: who you ask. We still have a majority of Americans
Speaker 1: who say that it isn't successful, which doesn't happen. Social
Speaker 1: Security was regarded as a success once it got started Medicare,
Speaker 1: but the majority don't want it to be so, So
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a people were conflicted about it,
Speaker 1: and it's not a government takeover. That's the question. The
Speaker 1: government is now determining our healthcare. No, they're not. The
Speaker 1: government determined what plans would be offered. You know what
Speaker 1: we should wrap She's about to have a stroke. She
Speaker 1: has because she's listening to you and going, wow, that
Speaker 1: is just not really true. Hanging there though, I'll hang
Speaker 1: in there. I'll get some more lectures. And by the way,
Speaker 1: and I'm just I'm just enjoying watching the two of
Speaker 1: you spar the two of us. We're not gonna be
Speaker 1: around when Social Security goes belly up, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to be around. Yes, you will be there. You'll have
Speaker 1: a chance to experience it. You know, we we'd love
Speaker 1: to have you back because actually we did want to
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time talking about like, how you
Speaker 1: got into this crazy business. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: in the son of two Dennists. I want to check
Speaker 1: out your teeth. Oh no, they're yellow. But not a
Speaker 1: single cavity. I've never had a single cavity. But I
Speaker 1: used to throw up in my father's chair. I felt
Speaker 1: so bad for him. Really, yes, I I don't understand
Speaker 1: what it is about Jews that we like to put
Speaker 1: our hands in people's mouths. Just speak for yourself. There's
Speaker 1: something in our religion that just Jews become Dennists. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. So you used to vomit?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why you're gagging reflex? Yes, and so what
Speaker 1: we finally figured out is when I had to go
Speaker 1: to the dentist, I was not allowed to eat for
Speaker 1: a day. Now, I agree, I'm fat today, I'm in
Speaker 1: shape if round is a shape. But when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I was a rail So my mother was
Speaker 1: very conflicted a Jewish mom. What do we do. Do
Speaker 1: we prevent Frankie from eating so he won't get sick
Speaker 1: in Lester's chair? Or do we let him eat because
Speaker 1: he's so thin that he looks like he could just
Speaker 1: blow away and then he gets sick and all the
Speaker 1: patients have to deal with it, so going to the
Speaker 1: dentist is very traumatic. I was a child that's going
Speaker 1: to say, so the next episode is going to be
Speaker 1: frank lens no, Frankie l Frankie. Oh, my father used
Speaker 1: to do that in public in front of al Haig.
Speaker 1: I met Henry Kissinger with my dad and he would
Speaker 1: always call me Frankie and they would look at me.
Speaker 1: And then I realized as I got older that actually
Speaker 1: the I e at the end of the name helps you,
Speaker 1: because you can't really hate someone named Frankie, but you
Speaker 1: can hate someone named frank I love hearing from Frank
Speaker 1: about what people are saying, but I am hungry for solutions,
Speaker 1: and I don't feel like anyone is talking enough about
Speaker 1: how we improve the state of the country. And I
Speaker 1: hope he'll come back when the candidates themselves start articulating
Speaker 1: their visions to make the country better. Well. One of
Speaker 1: the things that Frank said that really struck me is
Speaker 1: the voters don't care that much about policy and solutions.
Speaker 1: I think he really believes that they care about affect
Speaker 1: and personality. And who seems to be telling it like
Speaker 1: it is as opposed to who has the ten point
Speaker 1: planned to fix infrastructure? And maybe that's not that interesting,
Speaker 1: But just basing your vote on somebody who you know
Speaker 1: is authentic and is channeling your anger that scares the
Speaker 1: bejesuits out of me. Yeah. It was always funny to
Speaker 1: me when I would see people in focus groups on
Speaker 1: TV say, oh, well, I don't really care what they
Speaker 1: stand for. I just want to know that you know
Speaker 1: the person is authentic and he means what he says. Well,
Speaker 1: policy really matters, and campaign promises are the best barometer
Speaker 1: of what presidents are going to do in office. So
Speaker 1: I think, no matter what you believe, we should pay
Speaker 1: attention to what these people are saying in their ads
Speaker 1: and speeches and definitely in the upcoming debates, and not
Speaker 1: just their tweets. I'd love to hear what you think.
Speaker 1: So the big question of the show today is do
Speaker 1: you think America is in decline or are you optimistic
Speaker 1: about the future. So give us a call at nine
Speaker 1: to nine to four, four six, three seven, leave us
Speaker 1: a voicemail, and as always I will be standing by
Speaker 1: the phone. Poor Brian, you need to get a hobby. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: if you're hungry for more election coverage, you can check
Speaker 1: out my fellow podcaster David Gregory. His recent honest and
Speaker 1: in depth interview is with vice presidential nominee Tim Kane.
Speaker 1: His show is called The David Gregory Show and you
Speaker 1: can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Thanks to Gretta Cone and the right Reverend
Speaker 1: John de Lure for producing this show. Thanks to Mark
Speaker 1: Phillips for our theme music, and please subscribe, rate and
Speaker 1: review It really helps listeners find the show. So we'll
Speaker 1: talk to you next time, and thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: It's good headphones to take these with us, just like
Speaker 1: it will be five. But here's a great thing. They'll
Speaker 1: bill you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Hey everyone, this is Scott
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