WEBVTT - girlboss mobboss

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Let's start this episode with a man's

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<v Speaker 1>dying words.

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't we here? They are.

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<v Speaker 1>A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim.

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<v Speaker 1>You can play jacks and girls do that with a

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<v Speaker 1>softball and do tricks with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh oh, dog, biscuit.

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<v Speaker 1>And when he is happy, he doesn't get snappy. You

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<v Speaker 1>might hear those and be like, what the fuck does

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<v Speaker 1>that mean? And that is a great question, because we

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. This was the dying utterance of New York

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish mafia kingpen Dutch Schultz in nineteen thirty five. These

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<v Speaker 1>famous last words were recorded by a stenographer working for

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<v Speaker 1>the police. They've been immortalized in books and movies, and

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<v Speaker 1>some people think they are a coded message or a

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<v Speaker 1>clue that will help you locate some hidden in money.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe he was just delirious because he was dying.

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<v Speaker 1>He had just been shot while he was on the toilet.

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<v Speaker 1>But we'll get to that. What is often less shared

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<v Speaker 1>about this fatal moment in the life of Schultz is

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<v Speaker 1>a telegram he received on his deathbed, presumably moments before

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<v Speaker 1>these words left his lips. The telegram was from a

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<v Speaker 1>woman and it read as ye sow, so shall ye reap?

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<v Speaker 1>A Bible verse, A creepy but not so cryptic note

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<v Speaker 1>from one of his most formidable foes and the first

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<v Speaker 1>female mob boss seen.

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<v Speaker 2>By New York City.

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<v Speaker 1>Her name was Stephanie Saint Clair. So let's see how

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<v Speaker 1>was she involved getting this mob boss to his deathbed?

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<v Speaker 2>Cue the theme music.

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<v Speaker 1>This is American filth and I'm your host, Gabby Watts.

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<v Speaker 1>Each week I tell you a filthy story from American history.

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<v Speaker 1>This week's episode, girl Boss, My Boss. So let's go

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<v Speaker 1>back to the beginning. Whomst is Stephanie Saint Clair. That

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<v Speaker 1>is a question that many historians are trying to answer

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<v Speaker 1>because what it's not exactly clear. You know, on the

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<v Speaker 1>one side, maybe her early years are lost to history

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<v Speaker 1>because she was a Caribbean immigrant, people didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Keep the records.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's also possible that she kept herself, her origins,

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<v Speaker 1>and her exact movements throughout her life a mystery because

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<v Speaker 1>she wanted to.

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<v Speaker 2>It was on purpose, just to further.

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<v Speaker 1>Shroud her in mystery, to heighten her status as a

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<v Speaker 1>crime boss in New York City. So let's look at

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<v Speaker 1>some of the hypotheses of where she's from. Some people

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<v Speaker 1>think that she was from France, like some people who

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<v Speaker 1>knew her swore that she grew up in Paris, was

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<v Speaker 1>the daughter of an aristocrat. She was, after all, fluent

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<v Speaker 1>in French and extremely well educated. And then when she

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<v Speaker 1>was probably in her thirties or forties, she vehemently denied

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<v Speaker 1>being from the Caribbean, claiming that she was from France

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent more likely, though her early life was

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<v Speaker 1>spent in Guadaloupe or Martinique, and she was either born

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<v Speaker 1>on Christmas or Christmas Eve in the mid eighteen eighties

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<v Speaker 1>or eighteen nineties. But what we do know, or what

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<v Speaker 1>we are pretty sure we know, is that on July

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<v Speaker 1>twenty second, nineteen eleven, she left the Caribbean and headed

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<v Speaker 1>to New York City. However, at the time that wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>her final destination. She then went to Quebec, where some

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<v Speaker 1>historians think she was part of a program that recruited

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<v Speaker 1>women from Guadalupe to be domestic workers for white households.

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<v Speaker 1>And what would happen is basically the employer would pay

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<v Speaker 1>your way there, but then you'd have to work for

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<v Speaker 1>them for two years to pay it off, So kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like a messed up, indentured servitude sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But it does seem that Saint Clair left Canada before

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<v Speaker 1>she paid that off, because it looks like in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>twelve she finally ended up in New York City in Harlem.

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<v Speaker 1>And Saint Clair reached Harlem in a very pivotal moment.

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<v Speaker 1>She moved there in the nineteen tens, which was the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning of the Harlem Renaissance. During this time, black people

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<v Speaker 1>were moving into cities in what was called the Great Migration.

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<v Speaker 1>Thousands and thousands of people moved into Harlem, black thinkers, intellectuals, artists,

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<v Speaker 1>so many people made Harlem their home and Stephanie Saint

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<v Speaker 1>Clair was right in the middle of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And again, can you believe this?

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<v Speaker 1>It's not exactly clear what she was doing when she

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<v Speaker 1>first arrived in Harlem. We do know from a marriage

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<v Speaker 1>certificate that she got married in nineteen fifteen to a

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<v Speaker 1>guy named George Gaschett.

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<v Speaker 2>He was from Dominica and an elevator operator. And while

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<v Speaker 2>they were.

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<v Speaker 1>Technically married and through their marriage she was eventually able

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<v Speaker 1>to get citizenship, it doesn't seem that their actual relationship

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<v Speaker 1>lasted that long. Most likely when she first arrived in

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<v Speaker 1>New York City. Like a lot of other Afro Caribbean women,

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<v Speaker 1>she was probably either working as a housekeeper or a seamstress.

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<v Speaker 1>But what we do know is at some time in

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<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen twenties she was like, hey, I can

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<v Speaker 1>probably do better for myself than this shit, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>when she started getting in with Harlem's drug lords, pimps,

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<v Speaker 1>and big time gangsters.

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<v Speaker 2>So apparently there was this long standing gang called the

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<v Speaker 2>Forty Thieves.

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<v Speaker 1>They had roots tracing back to the eighteen twenties in

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<v Speaker 1>New York and it was these guys who showed her

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<v Speaker 1>the ropes to the illegal gambling world and becoming the

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<v Speaker 1>queen of gambling that would make Stephanie Saint Clair infamous.

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<v Speaker 1>So in the nineteen twenties, there was a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>different people playing these games of chance, because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you had all the rich people on Wall Street making

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<v Speaker 1>their money by speculating. So it was like, hey, in

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<v Speaker 1>the underground, in the underbelly of these cities, we're also

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<v Speaker 1>going to start our own operations where you could pay

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<v Speaker 1>into a pool and maybe win some money, maybe win

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<v Speaker 1>a shit ton of money, also maybe lose a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money. But this was very popular at the time

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<v Speaker 1>around the world. In New York City, specifically, black people

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<v Speaker 1>weren't allowed to participate in Wall Street. So these games,

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<v Speaker 1>also called the numbers game or the numbers racket, or

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<v Speaker 1>policy banking, they were a way to circumvent this ban,

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<v Speaker 1>allowing Black Americans to speculate, to scheme to maybe win

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<v Speaker 1>some money, but then also by keeping that money inside

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<v Speaker 1>of Harlem. And yeah, of course these numbers games they

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<v Speaker 1>weren't legal, but it also seemed to become a fun

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<v Speaker 1>pastime and a very ubiquitous experience in Harlem. Like one

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<v Speaker 1>newspaper wrote, numbers was a people's game, a community pastime

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<v Speaker 1>in which old and young, literate and illiterate, the neediest folk,

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<v Speaker 1>and well to do all participate. All of Harlem played

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<v Speaker 1>the humble laundry woman, the disrespectful pool player, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as the respectable teacher. And the thing is, if you

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<v Speaker 1>were the numbers game's game runner, or basically what they

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<v Speaker 1>would call the banker, you had a lot going for

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<v Speaker 1>you because not only would you control the game, you

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<v Speaker 1>also would get a lot of money because they got

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<v Speaker 1>to pay you to play the game. And that's where

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<v Speaker 1>Stephanie Saint Clair came in. She established her own numbers

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<v Speaker 1>operation sometime in the early to mid nineteen twenties, and

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<v Speaker 1>her numbers game became very, very successful, and so Saint

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<v Speaker 1>Clair began to build her enterprise. And the thing about

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<v Speaker 1>this is that a numbers operation comes with a whole hierarchy.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have Saint Claire at the top, and then

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<v Speaker 1>she's hiring a bunch of people who are like numbers collectors, clerks, messengers.

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<v Speaker 1>She's basically starting this whole ecosystem of illegal gambling. And

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<v Speaker 1>with her game, Stephanie Saint Clair quickly rose to the

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<v Speaker 1>tippy top of New York's underworld. She became known across

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<v Speaker 1>Manhattan as Queenie, and up in Harlem people referred to

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<v Speaker 1>her as Madame Saint Clair, Queen Madame, or simply Madame.

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<v Speaker 1>And as she was becoming more and more wealthy, as

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<v Speaker 1>she was having an even more successful enterprise, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>she started getting noticed outside of Harlem by the other

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<v Speaker 1>people who run illegal enterprises. Yes, I mean people in

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<v Speaker 1>the mob for example, and her fellow compatriots in the underworld.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people described her as extremely well educated, arrogant, confident,

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<v Speaker 1>and that she also had an intense temper that you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want directed at you. By nineteen thirty, one journalist

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<v Speaker 1>estimated that Saint Clair had about half a million dollars,

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<v Speaker 1>which would be about ten million dollars in today's money.

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<v Speaker 1>She also had a huge flamboyant personality when she was

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<v Speaker 1>in public. She wore big hats for diamonds, the finest

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<v Speaker 1>dresses cut in the latest styles, and she also owned

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<v Speaker 1>apartments and houses in Harlem. She lived in the Esteemed

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<v Speaker 1>Building four h nine Edgecombe Avenue, where her neighbors were

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<v Speaker 1>led wev du Bois, their Good Marshall Duke Ellington cab

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<v Speaker 1>Callaway baseball Great Willie May's. She was becoming a celebrity.

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<v Speaker 1>One neighbor wrote about her that Madame Stephanie Saint Clair

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<v Speaker 1>breezes through the lobby with her fur coach dramatically flowing

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<v Speaker 1>behind her. She has a mystical aura about her and

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<v Speaker 1>she wears exotic dresses with a colorful turbine wrapped around

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<v Speaker 1>her head.

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<v Speaker 2>And the thing is Saint Clair.

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<v Speaker 1>She seemed to pour a lot of her wealth back

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<v Speaker 1>into Harlem and also used her renown to support black causes.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, she created jobs, She donated money to organizations

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<v Speaker 1>that supported progress towards equality for black Americans. She wrote

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<v Speaker 1>so many articles and newspapers that discussed black rights. She

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<v Speaker 1>wrote letters to the presidents, congressmen, senators. She also spoke

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<v Speaker 1>a lot about police brutality against black people. And of course,

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<v Speaker 1>Stephanie Saint Clair she had a lot of run ins

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<v Speaker 1>with the law. You know, she was a prominent banker

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<v Speaker 1>of a numbers game with a flamboyant personality, so she

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<v Speaker 1>for sure on the police's radar. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>like a lot of other mob bosses at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>people suspected that she had police officers on her payroll.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, it does seem that the

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<v Speaker 1>police did surveil most of her staff. For example, in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty eight, the police arrested her housekeeper. They were like,

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<v Speaker 1>you have gambling materials on you and she's like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. They're like, give it to us, and she's

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<v Speaker 1>like no. She was also like, you're only arresting me

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<v Speaker 1>because you think I'm Stephanie Saint Clair, which I am not.

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<v Speaker 2>I am her housekeeper. You guys are stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately for the housekeeper, she did end up spending

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<v Speaker 1>time in prison, and then Stephanie Saint Clair was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>on December thirtieth, nineteen twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, she was pissed.

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<v Speaker 1>She put an editorial in the newspaper talking about how

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<v Speaker 1>she was arrested. She was like, yeah, I was arrested,

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<v Speaker 1>but I was framed. She was like, these police are

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<v Speaker 1>cowards who wear civilian clothes boo. In court, she ended

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<v Speaker 1>up representing herself and she admitted to being a banker,

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<v Speaker 1>and she gave a three hour court testimony basically shitting

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<v Speaker 1>on the police, saying that the police arrested her because

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<v Speaker 1>they were jealous that they were not on her payroll.

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<v Speaker 1>They wanted her money, and she said that when they

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<v Speaker 1>went to her apartment, they also took four hundred dollars

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<v Speaker 1>of her money, and the officer who took it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>getting punished, and she was like, I'm going to expose

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<v Speaker 1>who did it. But when I said I was going

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<v Speaker 1>to do that, they threatened me. Unfortunately, her very vivacious

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<v Speaker 1>testimony didn't work and she was sentenced to eight months

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<v Speaker 1>and twenty days in a workhouse. This arrest led to

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<v Speaker 1>two things. One, she lost her stronghold as the Queen

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<v Speaker 1>of Numbers in Harlem, but also it made her even

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<v Speaker 1>more pissed off at the police. Once she was out

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<v Speaker 1>of the workhouse, Saint Clair went on a rampage. She

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<v Speaker 1>was determined to prove how corrupt the police were. She

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<v Speaker 1>testified before this commission quote Elee avishly dressed in her

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<v Speaker 1>mink coat. She mounted the witness stand and hurled a

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<v Speaker 1>series of charges. She's like, yeah, here are the people

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<v Speaker 1>I paid off.

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<v Speaker 2>That's corruption.

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<v Speaker 1>But also even though I paid them off, they still

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<v Speaker 1>surveil me, and that's rude. This testimony led to a

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<v Speaker 1>lieutenant and thirteen other people who worked with the New

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<v Speaker 1>York Police Department.

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<v Speaker 2>It got them suspended. Amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So after this, Stephanie Saint Clair was back on top.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, she was organizing numbers games. She was telling

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<v Speaker 1>the police that they were dumb. But there's another threat

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<v Speaker 1>on the horizon. Because we're in the nineteen thirties, baby,

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<v Speaker 1>and what's happening. It's the end of prohibition, It's the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Depression. People are losing money, people are sad, including

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<v Speaker 1>all those white mobsters who had been keeping an eye

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<v Speaker 1>on Saint Clair, people who had previously ignored Harlem.

0:14:06.965 --> 0:14:09.645
<v Speaker 2>They're like, I don't care about their schemes. Over there.

0:14:10.725 --> 0:14:14.205
<v Speaker 1>But the thing is now they're like, shit, we're losing

0:14:14.245 --> 0:14:16.725
<v Speaker 1>all of our income streams. Maybe we should see what's

0:14:16.805 --> 0:14:20.205
<v Speaker 1>up with Harlem. So Saint Clair's about to come up

0:14:20.245 --> 0:14:24.005
<v Speaker 1>against her nastiest enemy, the crime boss of the Bronx,

0:14:24.245 --> 0:14:33.445
<v Speaker 1>Dutch Schultz. We'll be right back after these soothing advertisements. Now,

0:14:33.525 --> 0:14:36.765
<v Speaker 1>before we get to all of those white mob bosses,

0:14:37.725 --> 0:14:39.805
<v Speaker 1>we got to go on a little side quest here,

0:14:40.645 --> 0:14:44.765
<v Speaker 1>because while Stephanie Saint Clair was a girl boss mob boss,

0:14:44.925 --> 0:14:47.165
<v Speaker 1>she also had a bunch of other shit to deal with,

0:14:48.525 --> 0:14:50.605
<v Speaker 1>you know, as I was saying. She wrote editorials in

0:14:50.645 --> 0:14:55.045
<v Speaker 1>the newspapers constantly about legal rights for black people, police brutality,

0:14:55.125 --> 0:14:59.005
<v Speaker 1>voting rights, other issues, and a lot of people obviously

0:14:59.085 --> 0:15:02.245
<v Speaker 1>had their opinions on what she wrote, but there was

0:15:02.285 --> 0:15:05.045
<v Speaker 1>one group of people who she didn't want to hear

0:15:05.125 --> 0:15:06.805
<v Speaker 1>back from ever again.

0:15:07.205 --> 0:15:09.485
<v Speaker 2>Here's what she wrote in nineteen twenty nine.

0:15:09.525 --> 0:15:13.205
<v Speaker 1>She said, to whom it may concern, I have received

0:15:13.285 --> 0:15:16.405
<v Speaker 1>letters and telephone messages from men which have annoyed me

0:15:16.645 --> 0:15:18.965
<v Speaker 1>very much, and I take this occasion to ask them

0:15:18.965 --> 0:15:22.965
<v Speaker 1>publicly to please not annoy me. I, Madame Saint Clair,

0:15:23.205 --> 0:15:26.245
<v Speaker 1>am not looking for a husband or a sweetheart. If

0:15:26.245 --> 0:15:28.765
<v Speaker 1>they do not stop annoying me, I shall publish their

0:15:28.845 --> 0:15:30.525
<v Speaker 1>names and letters in the newspaper.

0:15:32.485 --> 0:15:33.085
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

0:15:33.205 --> 0:15:40.885
<v Speaker 1>One of her biggest enemies were dudes constantly hitting on her. Now,

0:15:40.965 --> 0:15:44.885
<v Speaker 1>while Saint Clair was technically married to George Gaschett, it

0:15:44.885 --> 0:15:48.405
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem their actual relationship lasted very long. You know,

0:15:48.445 --> 0:15:51.245
<v Speaker 1>that was the man she married in nineteen fifteen, but

0:15:51.325 --> 0:15:53.645
<v Speaker 1>it seems that around the same time she had several

0:15:53.725 --> 0:15:58.245
<v Speaker 1>other relationships, and based on the rumors of how they went,

0:15:59.365 --> 0:16:01.685
<v Speaker 1>it might be obvious why she wasn't really into having

0:16:01.685 --> 0:16:06.565
<v Speaker 1>a boyfriend. Like at some point she was with this guy, Duke,

0:16:07.085 --> 0:16:10.245
<v Speaker 1>but it turned sour when he tried to what prostitute her.

0:16:11.405 --> 0:16:14.365
<v Speaker 1>She was like, fuck, no, I'm not doing that. And

0:16:14.485 --> 0:16:16.965
<v Speaker 1>after that he ended up being shot in a gang

0:16:17.005 --> 0:16:18.005
<v Speaker 1>fight and dying.

0:16:18.485 --> 0:16:20.965
<v Speaker 2>Is that a coincidence? Perhaps? Perhaps not.

0:16:21.805 --> 0:16:24.645
<v Speaker 1>She then had another lover named Ed and they had

0:16:24.645 --> 0:16:27.285
<v Speaker 1>started selling drugs together and made a ton of money

0:16:27.445 --> 0:16:29.925
<v Speaker 1>very fast. But then when she said she wanted to

0:16:30.045 --> 0:16:33.085
<v Speaker 1>leave him, he tried to strangle her, and when he

0:16:33.165 --> 0:16:35.925
<v Speaker 1>was coming towards her, she pushed him away, and apparently

0:16:35.965 --> 0:16:38.885
<v Speaker 1>she pushed him so hard that he fell back and

0:16:38.965 --> 0:16:41.285
<v Speaker 1>cracked his skull on a table and died.

0:16:41.925 --> 0:16:42.445
<v Speaker 2>Whoops.

0:16:45.365 --> 0:16:47.885
<v Speaker 1>So boo men in her romantic life. But now it's

0:16:47.925 --> 0:16:53.445
<v Speaker 1>boo men and her professional life. Let's get to Dutch Shultz.

0:16:56.885 --> 0:16:59.285
<v Speaker 1>So Steffie Saint Clair was officially known as the Queen

0:16:59.285 --> 0:17:02.525
<v Speaker 1>of Harlem, just in time for the Great Depression, and

0:17:02.765 --> 0:17:05.645
<v Speaker 1>obviously her reign didn't go on threatened for long. She

0:17:05.685 --> 0:17:10.045
<v Speaker 1>got arrested, but now she had another enemy to contend with.

0:17:10.325 --> 0:17:13.685
<v Speaker 1>The mob bosses that dominated New York City, specifically the

0:17:13.765 --> 0:17:17.485
<v Speaker 1>Jewish and Italian mafias, and up until that point in

0:17:17.525 --> 0:17:20.645
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen thirties, they had left the Harlem numbers games

0:17:20.685 --> 0:17:23.445
<v Speaker 1>alone because for most of the white crime bosses, they

0:17:23.445 --> 0:17:26.405
<v Speaker 1>didn't have any interest in Harlem. They're like these numbers games,

0:17:26.765 --> 0:17:29.685
<v Speaker 1>they're not profitable. Also, it's only poor people doing it.

0:17:29.685 --> 0:17:33.805
<v Speaker 1>There's not enough money. But throughout the nineteen twenties there

0:17:33.805 --> 0:17:36.325
<v Speaker 1>were more and more articles talking about how rich people

0:17:36.365 --> 0:17:40.005
<v Speaker 1>were getting off of these games. So the white crime

0:17:40.045 --> 0:17:42.885
<v Speaker 1>bosses were like, hmm, let's keep an eye on this.

0:17:44.845 --> 0:17:48.685
<v Speaker 1>And then when the Volstad Act was repealed, the white

0:17:48.765 --> 0:17:51.445
<v Speaker 1>crime bosses started losing a lot of money because they

0:17:51.445 --> 0:17:54.125
<v Speaker 1>had made money and selling illegal alcohol.

0:17:54.165 --> 0:17:56.725
<v Speaker 2>But now people could drink because they're sad. It's the depression.

0:17:56.805 --> 0:17:57.525
<v Speaker 2>Let them drink.

0:17:58.485 --> 0:18:01.325
<v Speaker 1>So at this point they're like, Harlem's getting more and

0:18:01.365 --> 0:18:05.525
<v Speaker 1>more interesting. Perhaps we should get involved, and by that

0:18:05.725 --> 0:18:11.285
<v Speaker 1>I mean violently take it over. The head of the

0:18:11.325 --> 0:18:14.565
<v Speaker 1>Bronx faction of the Jewish mobsters at the time was

0:18:14.685 --> 0:18:19.125
<v Speaker 1>Dutch Schultz Duchy. He was very well known for his

0:18:19.165 --> 0:18:24.845
<v Speaker 1>bootlegging operations during Prohibition, and he also ran numbers rackets

0:18:24.925 --> 0:18:27.805
<v Speaker 1>similar to ones that Stephanie Saint Clair was running, but

0:18:27.925 --> 0:18:31.325
<v Speaker 1>in the Bronx. But Schultz was also known for being

0:18:31.565 --> 0:18:35.645
<v Speaker 1>very brutal. He loved his gun, he was very trigger

0:18:35.685 --> 0:18:39.405
<v Speaker 1>happy and spared no one. He was such a bad

0:18:39.485 --> 0:18:43.125
<v Speaker 1>boy that FBI director j Edgar Hoover called him Public

0:18:43.285 --> 0:18:45.845
<v Speaker 1>Enemy number one, listing him as one of the most

0:18:45.965 --> 0:18:47.405
<v Speaker 1>dangerous criminals of the time.

0:18:49.045 --> 0:18:53.525
<v Speaker 2>So around nineteen thirty, Schultz starts moving into Harlem, and

0:18:53.605 --> 0:18:54.805
<v Speaker 2>he had a strategy.

0:18:54.965 --> 0:18:58.285
<v Speaker 1>He was like, basically, I'm going to tell these black

0:18:58.325 --> 0:19:01.485
<v Speaker 1>and Latino numbers bankers that they can either give me

0:19:01.565 --> 0:19:04.245
<v Speaker 1>their operation, or they can give me a big share

0:19:04.285 --> 0:19:07.885
<v Speaker 1>of the profits, or I kill them.

0:19:09.005 --> 0:19:09.645
<v Speaker 2>What a deal.

0:19:11.405 --> 0:19:15.445
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, he was ruthless, and eventually he got to

0:19:15.525 --> 0:19:20.445
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair. Apparently he started making threatening phone calls to her,

0:19:21.005 --> 0:19:24.165
<v Speaker 1>and then he escalated it to kidnapping and murdering her men.

0:19:24.965 --> 0:19:27.525
<v Speaker 1>Then he paid off police, who normally turned a blind

0:19:27.525 --> 0:19:30.485
<v Speaker 1>eye to her operation, which then landed her in jail.

0:19:32.565 --> 0:19:35.525
<v Speaker 1>In fact, she said quote, fighting Schultz from nineteen thirty

0:19:35.525 --> 0:19:37.645
<v Speaker 1>one to nineteen thirty five cost me a total of

0:19:37.725 --> 0:19:40.725
<v Speaker 1>eight hundred and twenty days in jail and three fourths

0:19:40.805 --> 0:19:45.845
<v Speaker 1>to one million dollars. No surprise based on what we

0:19:45.885 --> 0:19:48.285
<v Speaker 1>know of Saint Clair, she and her right hand man,

0:19:48.365 --> 0:19:53.045
<v Speaker 1>Bumpy Johnson reacted immediately, making moves towards a swift and

0:19:53.085 --> 0:19:58.485
<v Speaker 1>severe revenge. As payback, she started vandalizing his property. She

0:19:58.645 --> 0:20:01.565
<v Speaker 1>herself would go to white store owners who were affront

0:20:01.645 --> 0:20:05.085
<v Speaker 1>for Schultz and would destroy all of their products, smashing

0:20:05.165 --> 0:20:09.285
<v Speaker 1>play glasses and destroying all of their gaming slips, and

0:20:09.325 --> 0:20:11.605
<v Speaker 1>then she would order the small timers to get out

0:20:11.645 --> 0:20:15.325
<v Speaker 1>of Harlem. Another time, when Schultz had sent an underlin

0:20:15.445 --> 0:20:18.485
<v Speaker 1>to intimidate her, she pushed that dude into a closet,

0:20:18.645 --> 0:20:22.565
<v Speaker 1>locked him in, and then got her four massive bodyguards.

0:20:21.885 --> 0:20:23.605
<v Speaker 2>To take care of him.

0:20:24.085 --> 0:20:26.525
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair also tipped the police off to a bunch

0:20:26.605 --> 0:20:29.805
<v Speaker 1>of his people in operations that led to them raiding

0:20:29.805 --> 0:20:40.445
<v Speaker 1>his properties and finding two million dollars. But the thing is,

0:20:40.445 --> 0:20:43.485
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair was also frustrated that her fellow black bankers

0:20:43.485 --> 0:20:46.885
<v Speaker 1>weren't putting up more of a fight. She said in

0:20:46.885 --> 0:20:50.325
<v Speaker 1>a newspaper on January fifth, nineteen thirty five, I'm not

0:20:50.365 --> 0:20:53.365
<v Speaker 1>afraid of Dutch Schultz or any other living man. He'll

0:20:53.365 --> 0:20:55.925
<v Speaker 1>never touch me. I will kill Schultz if he sets

0:20:55.925 --> 0:20:58.565
<v Speaker 1>foot in Harlem. He is a rat. The policy game

0:20:58.645 --> 0:21:00.645
<v Speaker 1>is my game. He took it away from me and

0:21:00.725 --> 0:21:03.365
<v Speaker 1>is swindling the colored people. And I'm the only one

0:21:03.365 --> 0:21:04.645
<v Speaker 1>who's after him.

0:21:04.965 --> 0:21:05.285
<v Speaker 2>She's p.

0:21:07.485 --> 0:21:10.205
<v Speaker 1>And the thing is, Schultz hated that it was Saint

0:21:10.245 --> 0:21:13.125
<v Speaker 1>Clair who was standing up to him because not only

0:21:13.245 --> 0:21:15.885
<v Speaker 1>was she an enemy, but also she was a black

0:21:15.925 --> 0:21:18.885
<v Speaker 1>woman and an immigrant who was fighting against him.

0:21:19.365 --> 0:21:20.045
<v Speaker 2>He hated that.

0:21:21.885 --> 0:21:23.805
<v Speaker 1>He hated it so much that he had a hit

0:21:23.845 --> 0:21:27.765
<v Speaker 1>put out on her in nineteen thirty five. At that point,

0:21:27.805 --> 0:21:31.685
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair went into hiding. She said she quote hid

0:21:31.805 --> 0:21:34.125
<v Speaker 1>in a cellar while the super, a friend of mine,

0:21:34.165 --> 0:21:38.485
<v Speaker 1>covered me with coal. You know, a normal hiding spot

0:21:38.725 --> 0:21:42.645
<v Speaker 1>under some coal, But lucky for her.

0:21:43.045 --> 0:21:45.285
<v Speaker 2>Other people were also pissed at Schultz.

0:21:48.125 --> 0:21:50.645
<v Speaker 1>So if you go down the rabbit hole of like

0:21:50.805 --> 0:21:54.005
<v Speaker 1>mobster in mafia history in New York, it's very complicated

0:21:54.085 --> 0:21:57.205
<v Speaker 1>and it's just like men being mad about shit. I'm

0:21:57.245 --> 0:21:59.965
<v Speaker 1>just like, could you guys just calm down. But basically,

0:22:00.005 --> 0:22:02.365
<v Speaker 1>there is this group called the Commission, and this is

0:22:02.405 --> 0:22:06.125
<v Speaker 1>where the heads of the mafia families would gather and

0:22:06.205 --> 0:22:11.085
<v Speaker 1>discuss mob mafia stuff. And so the Commission was met

0:22:11.125 --> 0:22:14.205
<v Speaker 1>at Schultz because Schultz had tried to kill this senator

0:22:14.685 --> 0:22:17.525
<v Speaker 1>even though the Commission was like, hey, don't kill that senator,

0:22:17.525 --> 0:22:19.205
<v Speaker 1>but he had tried to and he had failed, so

0:22:19.245 --> 0:22:20.405
<v Speaker 1>they were pissed at him.

0:22:20.845 --> 0:22:22.325
<v Speaker 2>They were also pissed at him.

0:22:22.165 --> 0:22:26.005
<v Speaker 1>That they were like, actually, we should just kill him.

0:22:26.525 --> 0:22:30.685
<v Speaker 1>So on October twenty third, nineteen thirty five, they get

0:22:30.725 --> 0:22:34.605
<v Speaker 1>some guys to go shoot Schultz while he's on the toilet,

0:22:34.725 --> 0:22:41.405
<v Speaker 1>no less, And not only was he shot on the toilet,

0:22:41.485 --> 0:22:44.085
<v Speaker 1>which is embarrassing, Oh no, it's worse than that. He

0:22:44.205 --> 0:22:46.765
<v Speaker 1>was shot on a toilet that was in New Jersey.

0:22:47.405 --> 0:22:50.165
<v Speaker 1>The place was called the Palace Chop House in Newark,

0:22:50.205 --> 0:22:53.765
<v Speaker 1>New Jersey. And basically he was ambushed on the toilet,

0:22:53.885 --> 0:22:56.005
<v Speaker 1>got shot. Then a bunch of other people were shooting

0:22:56.045 --> 0:22:59.325
<v Speaker 1>his men. But I guess getting shot in the toilet

0:22:59.325 --> 0:23:01.205
<v Speaker 1>didn't kill him, because then he was rushed to the

0:23:01.245 --> 0:23:04.645
<v Speaker 1>hospital and he didn't die until three days later, which

0:23:04.685 --> 0:23:06.845
<v Speaker 1>was long enough for Saint Clair to send him that

0:23:07.005 --> 0:23:11.005
<v Speaker 1>creepy fucking telegram and then he uttered those last words

0:23:11.045 --> 0:23:16.605
<v Speaker 1>of total nonsense. I'm sure this might be kind of

0:23:16.605 --> 0:23:20.405
<v Speaker 1>an anticlimactic ending because Saint Clair didn't actually get to

0:23:20.525 --> 0:23:21.645
<v Speaker 1>kill him or kind of.

0:23:21.525 --> 0:23:23.365
<v Speaker 2>Be involved with that, it seems.

0:23:24.205 --> 0:23:26.285
<v Speaker 1>But I think with this death at this point she

0:23:26.365 --> 0:23:29.805
<v Speaker 1>was like, ah, maybe I should start retiring out of

0:23:29.845 --> 0:23:31.045
<v Speaker 1>the Number's business.

0:23:31.085 --> 0:23:32.725
<v Speaker 2>It's getting a bit crazy.

0:23:33.605 --> 0:23:37.005
<v Speaker 1>So she handed her assets over to that guy, Bumpy Johnson,

0:23:37.325 --> 0:23:40.605
<v Speaker 1>and they all seem to negotiate with the Commission that

0:23:40.685 --> 0:23:44.005
<v Speaker 1>the other New York mafia gangs would stay out of Harlem,

0:23:44.405 --> 0:23:49.525
<v Speaker 1>and eventually Bumpy became known as the Godfather of Harlem, and.

0:23:49.485 --> 0:23:51.205
<v Speaker 2>Then Saint Clair. It seems she stopped doing the.

0:23:51.285 --> 0:23:55.005
<v Speaker 1>Number stuff, but she continued to fight for political reform.

0:23:55.645 --> 0:23:57.445
<v Speaker 1>The thing, though, is, even as her reign as the

0:23:57.525 --> 0:24:00.205
<v Speaker 1>Queen of Numbers came to an end, she was still

0:24:00.205 --> 0:24:04.565
<v Speaker 1>in the newspapers, and that's because she decided to let

0:24:04.605 --> 0:24:09.885
<v Speaker 1>another man into her life. His name was Sufi Hamid. Now,

0:24:09.925 --> 0:24:13.445
<v Speaker 1>based on her previous relationships aka she dated men who

0:24:13.485 --> 0:24:15.805
<v Speaker 1>then she beat the shit out of or killed or

0:24:15.845 --> 0:24:19.725
<v Speaker 1>they died by coincidence, you might imagine this relationship isn't

0:24:19.725 --> 0:24:25.965
<v Speaker 1>going to end. Well, let's see, Saint Clair got to

0:24:26.005 --> 0:24:29.125
<v Speaker 1>know Sufi Hammad because they both did advocacy work.

0:24:29.885 --> 0:24:32.285
<v Speaker 2>But his was a little bit extreme.

0:24:32.725 --> 0:24:32.845
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:24:33.365 --> 0:24:35.325
<v Speaker 2>It seemed that starting.

0:24:34.965 --> 0:24:37.285
<v Speaker 1>In the nineteen thirties, he was very anti Semitic, and

0:24:37.365 --> 0:24:40.765
<v Speaker 1>some people called him the black Hitler. He was also

0:24:40.845 --> 0:24:44.685
<v Speaker 1>a proponent of black separatism. He organized a campaign to

0:24:44.725 --> 0:24:49.725
<v Speaker 1>boycott businesses that didn't employ black people. He ran a mosque,

0:24:49.965 --> 0:24:52.645
<v Speaker 1>he wore a turban and a cape, and he also

0:24:52.725 --> 0:24:55.525
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he was born in Egypt in the shadow

0:24:55.645 --> 0:24:57.605
<v Speaker 1>of the Pyramids.

0:24:57.565 --> 0:24:59.765
<v Speaker 2>When really he was from Massachusetts.

0:25:00.245 --> 0:25:03.285
<v Speaker 1>But you guys know what they say Massachusetts, it's basically

0:25:03.365 --> 0:25:08.805
<v Speaker 1>the Egypt of Massachuset sits. So technically, when Hamid and

0:25:08.965 --> 0:25:13.565
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair were together, she was probably still legally married

0:25:13.805 --> 0:25:18.245
<v Speaker 1>to George Goschett from nineteen fifteen, but she and Hamid

0:25:18.765 --> 0:25:25.005
<v Speaker 1>decided to create this non legal marriage contract. Basically that said, hey,

0:25:25.005 --> 0:25:28.085
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna be together, but in a year, if we

0:25:28.165 --> 0:25:30.325
<v Speaker 1>don't like being together still, we can break up and

0:25:30.405 --> 0:25:33.605
<v Speaker 1>leave this contract. But if we still like each other,

0:25:33.605 --> 0:25:35.725
<v Speaker 1>then we can continue. Isn't that great and then we

0:25:35.765 --> 0:25:38.525
<v Speaker 1>can be together for ninety nine years or something like that.

0:25:39.405 --> 0:25:42.605
<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately, it seems soon after they signed this contract

0:25:42.725 --> 0:25:45.765
<v Speaker 1>it did not work out because on January nineteenth, nineteen

0:25:45.805 --> 0:25:48.445
<v Speaker 1>thirty eight, Saint Clair shot him three times.

0:25:48.485 --> 0:25:49.405
<v Speaker 2>Whoops.

0:25:50.245 --> 0:25:53.005
<v Speaker 1>Here's what came out that happened during the trial. So

0:25:53.045 --> 0:25:55.805
<v Speaker 1>apparently Hamid had an appointment with his attorney, but then

0:25:55.845 --> 0:25:58.485
<v Speaker 1>when he got there to the office, Saint Clair was

0:25:58.525 --> 0:26:02.125
<v Speaker 1>there with a gun pointed at him, and she was

0:26:02.165 --> 0:26:05.205
<v Speaker 1>accusing him of cheating on her with this fortune teller,

0:26:05.805 --> 0:26:08.205
<v Speaker 1>and she said, give me all the clothing and money

0:26:08.245 --> 0:26:10.565
<v Speaker 1>I've given you, you stupid bitch, and then she.

0:26:10.685 --> 0:26:11.925
<v Speaker 2>Fired at him.

0:26:13.525 --> 0:26:16.365
<v Speaker 1>The first bullet went through his mouth and broke a tooth,

0:26:16.885 --> 0:26:19.165
<v Speaker 1>and then he grabbed at her hand, and then she

0:26:19.205 --> 0:26:22.885
<v Speaker 1>stepped back and fired again, and the second bullet went

0:26:22.925 --> 0:26:25.325
<v Speaker 1>through his jacket and then the third bullet went over

0:26:25.365 --> 0:26:29.205
<v Speaker 1>his head. So unfortunately she did miss.

0:26:32.125 --> 0:26:32.685
<v Speaker 2>But during the.

0:26:32.605 --> 0:26:35.285
<v Speaker 1>Trial she was like, oh, I wasn't going to kill him.

0:26:35.325 --> 0:26:37.645
<v Speaker 1>I was just trying to scare him, you know. Like

0:26:37.965 --> 0:26:40.125
<v Speaker 1>if I had killed him, I would have died. I

0:26:40.125 --> 0:26:43.605
<v Speaker 1>would have been so upset. But the thing is, in trial,

0:26:43.685 --> 0:26:46.085
<v Speaker 1>her act didn't really work out, and so the judge,

0:26:46.365 --> 0:26:50.365
<v Speaker 1>James G. Wallace said, this woman has been living by

0:26:50.445 --> 0:26:52.765
<v Speaker 1>her wits all her life. She has a bad temper

0:26:52.805 --> 0:26:55.565
<v Speaker 1>and muscleer and she can't go around shooting at other people.

0:26:57.965 --> 0:27:01.965
<v Speaker 1>So alas, even though Hamid's wounds were not fatal, Saint

0:27:02.005 --> 0:27:04.965
<v Speaker 1>Clair was sentenced to another two to ten years in prison,

0:27:05.565 --> 0:27:08.125
<v Speaker 1>and historians think she served about three of those at

0:27:08.125 --> 0:27:16.605
<v Speaker 1>the Bedford Hills Correctional Facility in New York. After her release,

0:27:16.645 --> 0:27:19.725
<v Speaker 1>it's unclear exactly what happened to her. At some point

0:27:19.805 --> 0:27:22.365
<v Speaker 1>in the decades after, she might have gone back to

0:27:22.365 --> 0:27:25.165
<v Speaker 1>the West Indies to visit her family and then came back.

0:27:26.325 --> 0:27:29.445
<v Speaker 1>Some accounts say that she and Bumpy Johnson retired to

0:27:29.525 --> 0:27:33.205
<v Speaker 1>a Long Island mansion where they lived together and he

0:27:33.325 --> 0:27:35.965
<v Speaker 1>started writing poetry. I mean, it's a good thing. It's

0:27:35.965 --> 0:27:38.045
<v Speaker 1>a mansion. Otherwise, can you imagine just a man reading

0:27:38.085 --> 0:27:38.685
<v Speaker 1>poetry to.

0:27:38.645 --> 0:27:39.925
<v Speaker 2>You for the rest of your life? God.

0:27:40.845 --> 0:27:43.165
<v Speaker 1>But then there's another historian, Alexis Co, who said that

0:27:43.245 --> 0:27:47.005
<v Speaker 1>her last address was at a Long Island psychiatric facility

0:27:47.965 --> 0:27:53.485
<v Speaker 1>and then she died there in nineteen sixty nine. But

0:27:53.645 --> 0:27:55.525
<v Speaker 1>what we do know about her is that she was

0:27:55.565 --> 0:27:56.445
<v Speaker 1>a crime boss.

0:27:57.365 --> 0:28:00.045
<v Speaker 2>She got rich. She might have died rich, or she

0:28:00.125 --> 0:28:00.925
<v Speaker 2>might have died poor.

0:28:01.605 --> 0:28:04.645
<v Speaker 1>She was an advocate and she never stopped pushing for

0:28:04.685 --> 0:28:09.325
<v Speaker 1>the black commune that she lived in. She established organizations

0:28:09.325 --> 0:28:13.245
<v Speaker 1>to help immigrants get settled. She also advocated for voting rights.

0:28:13.645 --> 0:28:17.205
<v Speaker 1>She got those police officers fired, and she fucked up

0:28:17.205 --> 0:28:21.565
<v Speaker 1>a lot of dudes. And I think what Stephanie Saint

0:28:21.565 --> 0:28:24.085
<v Speaker 1>Claire can really teach us, and what this episode can

0:28:24.125 --> 0:28:26.285
<v Speaker 1>teach us today, because of course, American Filth comes with

0:28:26.285 --> 0:28:28.925
<v Speaker 1>a lesson is that if you're not in touch with

0:28:28.965 --> 0:28:32.285
<v Speaker 1>your entrepreneurial spirit, get your shit together. There's so much

0:28:32.285 --> 0:28:37.005
<v Speaker 1>you can do even when the world is stacked against you. Oh,

0:28:37.045 --> 0:28:40.085
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, was that moral too positive to end the

0:28:40.125 --> 0:28:40.565
<v Speaker 1>show with?

0:28:40.845 --> 0:28:42.725
<v Speaker 2>Whatever? Roll the credits.

0:28:47.925 --> 0:28:50.205
<v Speaker 1>American Filth is a production of School of Humans and

0:28:50.245 --> 0:28:53.765
<v Speaker 1>iHeart Podcasts. This episode was written by Julia Chriscau and

0:28:53.805 --> 0:28:54.485
<v Speaker 1>hosted by.

0:28:54.365 --> 0:28:55.405
<v Speaker 2>Me Gabby Watts.

0:28:55.725 --> 0:28:58.685
<v Speaker 1>Our theme song is by me and Jesse Niswanger. Our

0:28:58.725 --> 0:29:03.045
<v Speaker 1>senior producer is Amelia Brock. Our executive producers are Virginia Prescott,

0:29:03.045 --> 0:29:07.565
<v Speaker 1>Elsie Croley, and Brandon Barr. Please leave a review, leave

0:29:07.645 --> 0:29:11.525
<v Speaker 1>a star, give us some feedback. Also follow the pod

0:29:11.565 --> 0:29:15.565
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram at American Filth Pod. All Right, Catch you

0:29:15.605 --> 0:29:31.525
<v Speaker 1>next time by

0:29:33.685 --> 0:29:34.605
<v Speaker 2>School of Humans