1
00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: There are so many Americans right now that are being

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,520
Speaker 1: forced to deal with a really tough issue of vaccine

3
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,000
Speaker 1: mandates by their companies. What are your rights? How do

4
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,240
Speaker 1: you fight back? How do you get a religious exemption?

5
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: We are going to be joined in just a moment

6
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 1: by the managing attorney for the Liberty Justice Center that

7
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 1: is going to explain to what your constitutional rights are,

8
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: how to fight for religious exemption. If you're denied a

9
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 1: religious exemption, what you do, how important it is to

10
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: fill out your paperwork the right way for a religious exemption?

11
00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: And how do you organize with people that you work with.

12
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: Why are we doing this so hopefully we can stop

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,839
Speaker 1: hearing these tragic stories that we are witnessing. A veteran

14
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:49,160
Speaker 1: police officer has gone viral. He has been fired because

15
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: of the vaccine mandate. Refusing to get that vaccine. He

16
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: had his final sign off from the radio. This is

17
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 1: happening all over the country. Listen, this is my final

18
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,759
Speaker 1: sign off after twenty two years of serving the citizens

19
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 1: of the state of Washington, being asked to leave because

20
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: I am dirty. Numerous fatalities, injuries, have worked sick, I've

21
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: played sick, We've buried lots of friends over these years.

22
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you, guys. I'd like to thank

23
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 1: the citizens of Yakima County as well as my fellow

24
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 1: officers within the valley. Without you, guys, I would have

25
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 1: been very successful. And you've kept me safe and got

26
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: me home to my family every night. Thank you for that.

27
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 1: I wish I could say more, but um, this is it.

28
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,520
Speaker 1: So State ten thirty four, this is the last time

29
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 1: you'll hear me in a state patrol cart, and Jay

30
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 1: Ansley can kiss my ass. Jay Ansley, the governor of

31
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 1: the state. Where this veteran police officer who has given

32
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 1: his entire life And I played that there for you

33
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 1: because I think it's important for you to hear what

34
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: he said. That police officer then dropped his handset in

35
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,920
Speaker 1: his police car his final sign off and had this

36
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 1: to say afterwards to the camera that he was using

37
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: to film it, And thank you for your twenty two

38
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,200
Speaker 1: years and five months of service to the citizens of

39
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,919
Speaker 1: Washington State. You've taken on many roles in your time

40
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,720
Speaker 1: with patrol. In your first year, you delivered a babby

41
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,239
Speaker 1: while on patrol, and Bremerton, you've been a dairy dairy

42
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: instructor certified Technical Specialist and reconstructionist, her support member, part

43
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 1: of the Chaplain State Board, and a CBD trooper. You've

44
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 1: been a great role model and mentor for all your

45
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: troopers serving in the area by sharing your knowledge and

46
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: experience throughout the years. Thank you for your service. Nineteen

47
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,919
Speaker 1: thirty six. Thank you for your service. You can hear

48
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: the people responding that have worked with this man for

49
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 1: two decades plus. This is a man that just wants

50
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,640
Speaker 1: to serve his community, who's lost his job because of

51
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 1: a government overreach and a mandate. Now that's state true.

52
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 1: Per I just played for you, is not the only

53
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 1: one that is losing his job right now or has

54
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,239
Speaker 1: lost their job because of this mandate. And you had

55
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated under Governor Insley's vaccine mandate by the eighteenth.

56
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: Another Washington State Patrol officer, in response to Governor Enley's

57
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: Insley's vaccine mandate, used his radio to sign off as well.

58
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 1: He's been fired, dude, and my personal choice to take

59
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 1: a moral stand against for medical freedom and personal choice.

60
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 1: I will be signing out of service for the last

61
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 1: time today after nearly seventeen years of serving the citizens

62
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 1: of the state of Washington. There has been my honor

63
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 1: and privileged to work alongside all of you. I want

64
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 1: to take a moment to thank those that it helped

65
00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 1: me to be successful, to be safe, and to go

66
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 1: home every day at the end of each shift to

67
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 1: hear the RiPP hear the ripping of that bell girl

68
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,839
Speaker 1: is a relief to my wife and kids. I want

69
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,040
Speaker 1: to admonish each of you knowing that despite what the

70
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 1: press releases and the news conferences are saying to downplay

71
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 1: this role, we all know in this district on the nineteenth,

72
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,359
Speaker 1: there will be fifty one of the seventy five troopers

73
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 1: available and only seven of the eleven sergeants. So please

74
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: please please take care of each other. So please take

75
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: care of each other, be safe, to make sure you

76
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,159
Speaker 1: all go home at the end of each day. Again,

77
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: thank you to each and every one of you that

78
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 1: stood alongside me and that we have helped each other out.

79
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 1: But as for me, I am out of service and

80
00:04:53,920 --> 00:05:01,760
Speaker 1: on to new adventures on behalf of your defense co workers,

81
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,160
Speaker 1: I want to think you've been a pleasure to work

82
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 1: with for the last almost in neteen years. You've accomplished

83
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: great things here and building making friendships along the way

84
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 1: you've let your crew in d I R S r

85
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,480
Speaker 1: F T year, been an sto at r E and

86
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,479
Speaker 1: your support member, and most recently made starts up last year.

87
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 1: This agency is losing an outstanding, hard working, determined, in

88
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: carrying individuals. I'm honored to have been your despatchers, but

89
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 1: mostly had to be your wife. Our future is bright.

90
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your service one end, and

91
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 1: thank you for yours ever be by my side. I

92
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: want you to imagine being that husband and making that

93
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:04,719
Speaker 1: call to the radio dispatcher who's your wife, because that's

94
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:11,479
Speaker 1: what just happened. I get choked up because I have

95
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: family that's worked in law enforcement, and no one that

96
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 1: dials nine one one that needs this police officer or

97
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: his wife gives a crap if they're vaccinated or not.

98
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: No one's calling nine one one they're under attack, when

99
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 1: they're being raped, when they're being assaulted, when their backdoor

100
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: front doors being kicked in, when they're being carjacked, when

101
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,640
Speaker 1: their business is being robbed, and says please only send

102
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,160
Speaker 1: a police officer who is vaccinated. When you dial nine

103
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: one one and you talk to a dispatcher, you're not

104
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: asking that dispatcher if they are vaccinated. That is a

105
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,919
Speaker 1: man quitting his job, are being fired, a man that

106
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,600
Speaker 1: is being fired and having to tell his wife it's

107
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 1: his last radio call. You have a man and a

108
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:17,320
Speaker 1: woman serving their state and we're firing them because of

109
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 1: a craze governor and a leftist group of individuals starting

110
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 1: at the top with Joe Biden, who are obsessed with

111
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: controlling every aspect of your life. Again, thank you, teach

112
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 1: and every one of you just did alongside me and

113
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 1: that we have helped each other out. But as for me,

114
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 1: I am out of service and aunt new adventures on

115
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 1: behalf of your defied co workers. I want to say

116
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: you've been a person to work with for the last

117
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: almost for that teen years, even accomplished great things here

118
00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 1: and build amazing friendships along the way. You let your

119
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,560
Speaker 1: crew into I R s here s to hear, been

120
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 1: an STOTR, I'm your support member and most recently they

121
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: start at last year. This agency is losing an outstanding,

122
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: hard working, determined and caring individuals. I'm honored to have

123
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 1: been a despatcher, but mostly tried to be your wife.

124
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 1: Our future is right. Thank you so much for your service,

125
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:32,800
Speaker 1: my friend. Our future is bright. This is a woman

126
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:40,559
Speaker 1: and a man, and I do get choked up. This

127
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 1: is a woman and a man who have served their

128
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,959
Speaker 1: community and we are allowing them to be fired because

129
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:57,920
Speaker 1: they won't get a vaccine. God help our society. There

130
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 1: are men and women all over the country right now

131
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 1: that this is happening too. There are men and women

132
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,520
Speaker 1: who are being fired as we speak, who are serving

133
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 1: and protecting us because of government overreach. The White House

134
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: says Biden not wearing a mask in a restaurant was

135
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 1: just a moment in time, and to calm down. You

136
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 1: don't wear a mask'll shut down your restaurant. Jensaki, brushing

137
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 1: off that video of Biden violating the DC mass mandate.

138
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 1: Don't overly focus, she says, on a moment in time,

139
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 1: because remember, they're different than you are. Can they fire

140
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: you yes? Can they ruin your life, your family's life, yes.

141
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,959
Speaker 1: Do they have a problem, Do they have any soul?

142
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 1: No they don't. These are good men and women who

143
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: are being fired. It's not just the police officers, it's others.

144
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 1: Washington State just fire their head football coach for assistance

145
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 1: for refusing the drab jab. They're heroes, by the way,

146
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 1: we better hurry up and stand up folks. Now, the

147
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 1: question is how do you fight back? There have been

148
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,600
Speaker 1: a lot of you that have been reaching out and

149
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 1: asking about your rights. What are your rights? What are

150
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: your religious rights? How do you fight back when someone

151
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: comes in and tells you you either get this vaccine

152
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 1: or you will be unemployed. We will fire you, and

153
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: if we fire you, many of you won't even be

154
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 1: eligible for unemployment benefits. One of you just sent me

155
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 1: this note. I know I should have been investating this earlier,

156
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 1: but no one else has refused besides me, and so

157
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,079
Speaker 1: I really don't know what to do. Referring to refusing

158
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated at work, I'm wondering about what others

159
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,439
Speaker 1: are doing. From googling it, it sounds like everyone is

160
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,440
Speaker 1: getting to nied their religious exemptions. So how do you

161
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 1: even get a religious exemption? Exemption? In many businesses, it

162
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: seems like are just saying automatic knows to religious exemptions.

163
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 1: Joining me now to talk about your rights is a

164
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,440
Speaker 1: man that works with the Liberty Justice Center. They just

165
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: filed a case on behalf of six nurses in Illinois

166
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: who were required to get vaccinated or lose their jobs,

167
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: all religious or conscience exemptions requests have been denied. The

168
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,720
Speaker 1: nurses sued the hospital for the blanket denial of religious

169
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: vaccine exemptions. The man who's working on this, Daniel Sir,

170
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 1: is the managing attorney for the Liberty Justice Center. Daniel,

171
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on, and I've got a lot

172
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 1: of questions, so i want to start with the basic premise.

173
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 1: Explain to everyone that is listening right now, what are

174
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 1: your rights, everybody's rights when it comes to requesting a

175
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,439
Speaker 1: religious exemption. Let's start with that. Yeah, absolutely, Benn, and

176
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on the program this morning, and

177
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad you have because it's such an important topic.

178
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 1: The sanctity of conscience is one of our fundamental rights

179
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 1: as Americans. There's a reason that religious liberty comes at

180
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 1: the beginning of the First Amendment. It's something that we

181
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,440
Speaker 1: value as a society, and it's something that we should

182
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 1: expect not only our government, but also our employers to respect,

183
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 1: because nobody should have to choose between their job and

184
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,200
Speaker 1: their faith. And so for all of us across the country,

185
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: there's a federal law called Title seven, and it says

186
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: that your employer has to make reasonable accommodations of your

187
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 1: religious faith, and so it's being litigated in courts right

188
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 1: now across the country to ask this question of how

189
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:07,719
Speaker 1: reasonable accommodation works in a vaccine context. And I think

190
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 1: what's most important is that they have to make an

191
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,040
Speaker 1: individualized assessment of what's reasonable in your situation. All of

192
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 1: us work in a different environment, and so it might

193
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,560
Speaker 1: be for a particular person's job that wearing a mask,

194
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 1: or working from home, or working a different shift. Like,

195
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,599
Speaker 1: there are lots of different ways that people can reasonably

196
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: stay safe and at the same time keep their job

197
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,679
Speaker 1: without compromising their beliefs. I'll give you an example of

198
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,560
Speaker 1: another question I got to ask. Was there was employee

199
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: at a hospital in Alabama. She doesn't go to the

200
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 1: hospital anymore. She does billing and collections from home. She

201
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 1: hasn't been the hospital now in almost two years. She

202
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 1: is now being mandated to get a vaccine. She will

203
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: get fired from her job even though she doesn't even

204
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 1: work in the hospital. She is applied for religious exemption

205
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: and it was immediately denied. What is the next course

206
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: of action for someone like that? Yeah, that's an important question,

207
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 1: and it's a sad story, right this just shows I

208
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:18,720
Speaker 1: think the craziness that some employers have just been slept

209
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 1: up in that's really going across our society, this overreach

210
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: that they feel like they can can dictate these things

211
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 1: to people, and they can't, and they shouldn't. Everybody should

212
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: have a right to keep their faith and their job.

213
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 1: And for someone like that, you know, I would I

214
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 1: would encourage them to reach out to legal counsel. Were

215
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: Liberty Justice Center our websites Liberty Justice Center dot org. Again,

216
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 1: that's Liberty Justice Center dot org. But there are a

217
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 1: lot of other organizations doing great work in this space

218
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: on behalf of religious liberty and the rights of conscience

219
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: for individuals. But you should reach out to a nonprofit

220
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: organization that in religious liberty. Tell your story. I'll warn

221
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 1: you there are lots of these cases coming in right now.

222
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: But I think that is just indicative of how important

223
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 1: it is for really the Supreme Court eventually to take

224
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 1: one of these cases and set down a national rule

225
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 1: that clarifies and reinforces the rights of conscience. Well, let's

226
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 1: talk about United for a second. Six brave employees there

227
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: decide to sue with their vaccine mandates where they got

228
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 1: a judge who did a basically a pause while they

229
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 1: kind of work through this so that they wouldn't lose

230
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 1: their jobs or be forced to get a vaccine by

231
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 1: the arbitrary date that was set by the company. And

232
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 1: it just took six brave people to do this. You

233
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: look at the six people that you guys are representing now,

234
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 1: these six nurses in Illinois who were required to get

235
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: a vaccine or lose their jobs. You guys are representing them. Now,

236
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 1: what is happening with that case? And it seems like

237
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: if you just will your up, there's a very good

238
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 1: hands today court is going to say pause, hold on

239
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 1: a second. We're we're gonna work through this in the

240
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 1: appropriate manner and not just say you're going to get

241
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: fired by January the second, or June third, or whatever

242
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 1: the date is. You get my point. I do, Ben,

243
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: and I think it's important, you know, highlights the fact

244
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 1: that we're acting like this is a crisis that it

245
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: has to be resolved tomorrow. And the reality is we've

246
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: had vaccines for months now, We've been living in this

247
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: pandemic four months now, and so the idea that all

248
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 1: of a sudden, President Biden says on September ninth, we're

249
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 1: going to have employer mandates, and yet his own administration

250
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 1: has not issued the rule that is supposedly an emergency

251
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: over a month later, which I think really just betrays

252
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,960
Speaker 1: that they want these companies to do the dirty work

253
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 1: so the companies get sued rather than having us sue

254
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 1: the federal government, which is where the real problem starts

255
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,720
Speaker 1: in terms of this massive overreach into people's lives. But

256
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,440
Speaker 1: for our nurses, I represent six wonderful nurses at Riverside

257
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,679
Speaker 1: Hospital in Kankakee, Illinois. They have been on the front

258
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: lines of this pandemic day in and day out, showing

259
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: up to serve patients for the last twenty months. And

260
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,360
Speaker 1: their hospital is going to throw all of that aside

261
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: because they are unwilling to compromise their convictions. That's not

262
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: just wrong, it's illegal. And this is one of those

263
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 1: moments where the law protects people like these nurses so

264
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 1: they don't have to choose between their faith and their job.

265
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: It is amazing to me how many people are losing

266
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: their jobs because of these push in dates, and they're

267
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 1: being pushed on them. Yesterday we saw a significant number

268
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 1: in Seattle of police officers it resigned. They resigned and

269
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: made their last radio call, some of them after eighteen years,

270
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 1: twenty one years because the vaccine mandates. We're seeing this

271
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 1: happen all over the country where people are being forced

272
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 1: Is there any way to get those jobs back after

273
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 1: you quit? So the law allows for a judge to

274
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: order reinstatement, so it's certainly possible. But I just I

275
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: really admire all of these people who are standing up

276
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 1: for their rights. Minute, let's just be honest, Ben, It's

277
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: it's hard to choose, you know, to be in this situation.

278
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: It's it's coercive pressure that people are feeling, and to

279
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: stand up for your rights even when it's hard, even

280
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: once it's unpopular to seek out a lawyer and potentially

281
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,160
Speaker 1: file a case like these are important, major life choices.

282
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 1: But I think it reflects just how deeply and how

283
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: sincerely people hold these beliefs. People hold these convictions, and

284
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: those are precisely the sort of convictions we as a

285
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:14,439
Speaker 1: society should give the most respect and the law protexts. Daniel,

286
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: I want to go back to an important question. So

287
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 1: many people want to know when you apply for a

288
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 1: religious exemption, do you or should you get the ability

289
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 1: to present your case in person or is it just

290
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,199
Speaker 1: through writing? Because there's a lot of people that I

291
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: have talked to that said they don't feel like the

292
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 1: paperwork gives a personality to their claim to their case,

293
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: and they're just filling out paperwork and then they're getting

294
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: back denied in an email and they're like, I didn't

295
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 1: meet with anybody, I didn't get talk to anybody. What

296
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 1: are your rights when it comes to even getting to

297
00:19:51,080 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: vocally explain your reasoning behind requesting a religious exemption. It's

298
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 1: a great question, and I wish I could give you

299
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: a clear answer. I would say that there's certainly a

300
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 1: best practice that employers should hear people out, not just

301
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: through the paper, but through a conversation. I know many

302
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: employers do, but for those employers who don't, it is

303
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: certainly a best practice. I think the touchstones of this

304
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: sort of analysis from the employer's perspective. If I'm a

305
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 1: lawyer for a company, I'm really looking at three questions.

306
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: The first is, is this person sincere? You know, we're

307
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: in a moment right now in our culture where where

308
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: I think employers feel this media story that there are

309
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 1: a lot of insincere claims of religious exemption, and so

310
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: they want to make sure that the claim is sincere.

311
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: And you know, it's helpful to be able to explain

312
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 1: in your own words, you know why your faith leads

313
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: you to this conviction. The second question is what's the

314
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: burden on the employer? You know, is this the sort

315
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: of thing that's going to create real, real headaches for

316
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: the employer? And I think outside of the healthcare context,

317
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: you know, common sense would say no, but obviously, you know,

318
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: everybody's in a different situation. And then a third and

319
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: equally important question, and I think really why an individualized

320
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: assessment of each employee is important is to ask what

321
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 1: are the reasonable accommodations that can be made? Are there

322
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: any adjustments here can we physically socially? I was gonna say,

323
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about that. Man, what is a when

324
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: you say a reasonable accommodation? One? Explain that right please?

325
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 1: And two then Layman's terms, even more so, how that

326
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: isn't what what that looks like in the real world.

327
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it's common sense. The reality as we've all

328
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: been living unvaccinated through at least a large part of

329
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: the pandemic because there was no vaccine, right, and so

330
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: we put in place the procedures that could best accommodate,

331
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: could best protect people UM, knowing that that there was

332
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: this virus on the loose. And so we we've seen

333
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: with our own eyes with common sense that through physical distancing,

334
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: through handwashing, through UM even some more significant kind of

335
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: changes in our routines like telework UM, there are are

336
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: simple common sense steps we can take to minimize risk.

337
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: And so I think if your your example earlier been

338
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: your caller who you know works from home, If if

339
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: you're that person and you're not going into a work

340
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: setting like that seems like an incredibly strong case for

341
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: a reasonable accommodation. And it's important because that it's unique

342
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: to you, because your situation is yours alone, that employers

343
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: perform this sort of individualized assessment to figure out, you know,

344
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: how can we work with you in a reasonable common

345
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: sense way to keep your coworkers safe and keep you

346
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: safe while still respecting your religious belief Let's talk about

347
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: if you are listening right now and you say I'm

348
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: not religious, right, I'm not one that is going I'm agnostic,

349
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: or I don't really believe in God, there could be

350
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: a hundred different scenarios, but I think I've paint that

351
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: picture pretty clear. My point, you're not a religious person.

352
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: Everybody knows you're not a religious person. What are your

353
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: options if it goes against your conscience because you don't

354
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: have to be religious to be to have a contents

355
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: or say no, right, Maybe you've maybe you feel like,

356
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: because you've already gotten COVID nineteen or the delta variant,

357
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be forced to get that vaccine because

358
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: you already have some sort of some capacity of natural

359
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: immunity at this point, because you've already been infected. Maybe

360
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: I'll give you another example. A listener said she lost

361
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: her job because she was pregnant refused to get the vaccine. Wow, pregnant.

362
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: Another person connects us they were going through in vitro.

363
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: Lost their job because her doctor actually said the in

364
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: vitro doctor said, I don't want you taking the vaccine

365
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: right now while we're going through in vitro. Lost her

366
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: job because the date came and it left, and bam,

367
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: both of them are now unemployed. It just breaks your heart,

368
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: doesn't it been. I mean, it just is so heartbreaking

369
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: to hear these stories and meet these clients and see

370
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: what this is doing to our society that people cannot

371
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: respect the rights of others, and they should. So let

372
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: me ask answer your particular question. The law that for instance,

373
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: I've sued a or in Illinois is entitled the Healthcare

374
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: Rights of Conscience Act. And you're absolutely right that for

375
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: some people, conscience is a faith commitment, it's a religious commitment,

376
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: but for other people it's it's an ethical system, it's

377
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: a set of moral convictions. And for instance, the Illinois

378
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: law protects people who whose moral commitments come from something

379
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: other than faith in the same way that it protects

380
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: people's religious commitments. So I think it's important that we

381
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: focus on this sort of sincerely held belief, that it

382
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: needs to be a deep conviction, but that the law

383
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: should respect and employers should respect people who who hold

384
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: these beliefs and not put them in these sort of

385
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: impossible coercive positions. And I just have so much respect

386
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: for people who hold on to their convictions knowing the cost,

387
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: right that losing your job is a big deal. And

388
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: when you believe something so deeply, so sincerely that you're

389
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: you're not willing to compromise it, that you're willing to

390
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: be that police officer who signs off after twenty years.

391
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly humbling and just proud of people like that.

392
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: And I just hope that we can stand up for them,

393
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: that we can fight back in court and win some

394
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: of these cases. Nobody else has put in that kind

395
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: of position. I'm on the clock. My employer has put

396
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: me on the clock. They're listening to the Biden administration

397
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: on these mandates, and they put me on the clock.

398
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: I now have days, not months, not even weeks anymore,

399
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: to make a decision or get fired. If you are

400
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: one of those individuals who is facing that stop watch

401
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: that's been started by your employer, what do this give them?

402
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: The depths in order if you can of what they

403
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: need to do first, second, and third to try to

404
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves. So I think it's really important

405
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: to connect with an attorney. Obviously, the sooner the better

406
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: when you do so, it's helpful to have whatever paperwork

407
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: that you have been given around your case as possible, right,

408
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 1: So just take a minute to line up here the

409
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: emails that I've received from my company. Here are the

410
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: documents that I submitted explaining my religious belief here's the

411
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: denial or the appeal letter that I've sent. If you

412
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: can go to an attorney with those things in a folder,

413
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how much easier you make

414
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: our life, and when days matter, when we're on a clock,

415
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: it's really helpful to have those basic pieces of evidence

416
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: lined up on the front end. And then often I

417
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: think employers are sometimes at least reasonable, maybe not all

418
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: of them, but we refer to it as litigation by letterhead,

419
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: right Like sometimes just getting a letter from an attorney

420
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: saying that I represent this person and I'm worried that

421
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: their rights are being violated and we don't want to

422
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: have to sue you will cause an employer to take

423
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: a second look at a situation because their calculus changes

424
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: right now. For a lot of employers, they feel like

425
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: we'd better deny all of these exemption requests because we

426
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: don't want to get sued because somebody gets COVID at work. Now,

427
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I thinking, man, I don't want

428
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: to get sued if I deny this request because this

429
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: person has a sincerely held religious belief. So sometimes that

430
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: can be solved just by being represented and letting the

431
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: employer know you're serious, but ultimately sometimes it means you

432
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: have to go to court and file it. And I

433
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: think judges have been good about recognizing, let's put a pause,

434
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: like you were giving an example earlier, Ben, let's put

435
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: in a pause. Let's figure out the law, and let's

436
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: not force anybody out of their job without giving full

437
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: consideration to their legal rights. Where do you get these attorneys?

438
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: Another question that has been asked, and that is, Okay,

439
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: do I need somebody locally? Do I google it? Do

440
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: I call a large organization like yours at Liberty Justice Center?

441
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: And then how are you guys finding the attorney in

442
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: our state? You know where I'm calling from. Yeah, great question,

443
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: very practical and very important because I know, as you say,

444
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: people are on the clock. So there are national organizations.

445
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: Mine is Liberty Justice Center dot org, but there are

446
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: other great organizations in this space. I'll say that, you know,

447
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people reaching out right now,

448
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: two groups like mine, and they want to help. We

449
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: want to be helpful, but obviously, really what what I

450
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: think we need to do, not just as a conservative

451
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: legal movement that as a country is get some major

452
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: precedent set to get big cases decided in important courts,

453
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: at state supreme courts, at regional courts of appeals, ultimately

454
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: at the US Supreme Courts. So we can bring clarity,

455
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: but I know that that's a multi month process, and

456
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: if and if you're on the clock today, I think

457
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: reaching out to a local attorney who does employment law

458
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: is an equally good option. There are plenty of great

459
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: attorneys who specialize in unemployment law. And ultimately, this is

460
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: a we call it Title seven as attorneys for most

461
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: people on most states, there's either going to be a

462
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: federal Title seven law or there'll be some state religious

463
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: liberty your right of conscience act that's going to be

464
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: the go to for the attorney, and there'll be a

465
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: person in your state who knows that and should be

466
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: able to help you. Another question that has come in,

467
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: and that is I think another important logistical question, what

468
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: about retaliation. There have been several people have asked that

469
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm worried mostly about retaliation and do I need to

470
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: get power in numbers? Do I need to recruit other

471
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: people and we go to an attorney together, or is

472
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: my case sufficient of what do these attorneys want? Groups

473
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: like you? Do you want five, six, ten, fifteen employees

474
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: at work in the same place that have all been

475
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: denied their religious exemptions. So it's a very fact kind

476
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: of specific, but I would say generally yes, yes, and yes,

477
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,239
Speaker 1: by which I mean, if you can just stand up

478
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: and it's just you, that's all it takes. Right, Like

479
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: we started the show, Ben, six employees at a huge

480
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: global company like United, we're enough to get a case started.

481
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: So if it's if it's just you and you are

482
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: ready to stand up and insist on your rights, like,

483
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: good for you, and it can be done. But especially

484
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: I think you're right, Ben, for this feeling of retaliation

485
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: knowing that it's illegal, right, you cannot. Employers can't retaliate

486
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: in other ways against employees, but it's still legitimate concern

487
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: when they exercise their legal rights. If you can come

488
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: in as a group, that's great and it's powerful not

489
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: just in the courtroom but in the court of public

490
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: opinion to see people standing up and standing together. Right

491
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: the coach and his four assistant coaches that we just

492
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: heard about in the news break standing together. The only

493
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: caution that comes with that is the more people you

494
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: add to a case, the more complexity you add. And

495
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: so if it's the sort of thing where there was

496
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: just blanket denials. Then having lots of people is good.

497
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: But you probably heard me earlier say we need an

498
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: individualized assessment. If they've gone through individualized assessments and then

499
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: made denial, it's not necessarily wise to sue as a

500
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: group because you know, hopefully those assessments were truly individualized

501
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: and they just came to the wrong answer. But one

502
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: in doubt, I think coming as a group is great

503
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: but not necessary. Two more questions for you, and one

504
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: of them is dealing with states rights. You see what

505
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: Florida and they have recently said, you can't have mandates

506
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: on your employees in your states. They believe they're going

507
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: to win on a states rights issue. Your reaction to

508
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: that and are those states getting it right? And should

509
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: others be advocating for them to do do the same thing

510
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: in their state. Absolutely good for Florida, good for Texas.

511
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: One of our core foundational principles as a constitutional republic

512
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: is that the federal government is one of limited powers

513
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: and state governments are where policy decisions affecting people's everyday

514
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: lives should be made. And public health is one of

515
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: those policies that has historically been committed to the states.

516
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: There's a reason that all of these orders we've seen

517
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: reacting to COVID, all the shutdown orders, all these sorts

518
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: of things, they came from governors and not from the president.

519
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: And that's because it's governors who have this power in

520
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: our system, and that's the power both to regulate and

521
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: the power to ensure freedom, like they're doing in Florida

522
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: and Texas. And so when the president comes in with

523
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: these sweeping nationwide mandates, this forthcoming OSHA mandate, that is

524
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: a violation of the way our system is built. It

525
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: is illegal. As soon as the Biden illustration issues it,

526
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: they are going to get sued. We are going to

527
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: be one of the people who sue them, and I

528
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: think they are going to lose. They deserve to lose

529
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: because our constitutional system is based on states as the

530
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: center for policy like this, and when the federal government overreaches,

531
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: courts are going to stop it. We saw it already

532
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: with the eviction moratorium. I think we're going to say

533
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: the same thing play out with this ocean mandate. Last

534
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: question for you, and I just got this from someone

535
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: who has already been fired from their job. They want

536
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: to know what are their rights and is there a

537
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: chance to get their job back. They did reply for

538
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: two different exemptions. First was conscientious that was denied, then

539
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: religious that was denied, and they've been fired because they

540
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: weren't fully vaccinated by the deadline. Is there any way

541
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: to fight that or as the damage already been done,

542
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: you got to move on with your life. Obviously for starters,

543
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry whoever that listener is right now, I'm sorry

544
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: you were ever put in that place, And equally like

545
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: props to you for sticking by your beliefs even when

546
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: it cost a lot um. You know, I'll just say personally,

547
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: like the Bible promises us, there's gonna be persecution in

548
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: this world, and for a lot of people right now

549
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: that is that is what they're feeling. But just respect

550
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: for sticking by your beliefs. So where my lawyer hat,

551
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: I'll say, you can certainly still talk to an attorney.

552
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: You certainly still have rights, and even if you've been fired,

553
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: if that's you, um, the employment attorney can still help.

554
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: And even if you can't get your job back, you'll

555
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: be entitled to monetary damages if your employer acted illegally.

556
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: So don't don't give up hope, don't give up a fight.

557
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: There's still recourse for someone whose religious rights have been violated,

558
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: and um, if it's it's impossible to say you're not

559
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: sincere right. If you went all the way to accepting

560
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: termination because you were going to stick by your beliefs,

561
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: that's the best proof of all that you are sincere

562
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: in them and that should count for a lot in court. Daniel,

563
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, Daniel Sir, Managing attorney for Liberty

564
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: Justice Center. For so many that are going to hear

565
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: this one, please share it. We'll have it obviously. The

566
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: podcast is the easiest way for you to share this audio.

567
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: How can they get in touch with you and get

568
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: information that may help them as they move through this

569
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: process from you guys? Yeah, thanks so much for having

570
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: me on, Ben, Thanks for caring about the Constitution and

571
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: your listeners and the rights of conscience. We've got to

572
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: band together in this moment as people who believe in freedom,

573
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: we have to stick together. We have to stand up

574
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: for our rights. You can start as a listener. Just

575
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: go to Liberty Justice Center dot org. It's Liberty Justice

576
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: Center dot org. We love liberty, We love justice, so

577
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: that's what we do every day and reach out to

578
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: our team connect to get help. But equally, there are

579
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: other great attorneys out there and other great groups or

580
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: even just in your local community who specialize in employment law.

581
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: But don't just accept it. Stand up for your light rights,

582
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: fight back, and we can stop this kind of coercion.

583
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: We can stop this kind of overreach because it violates

584
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: who we are as Americans. Daniel again, thank you for

585
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: coming on. And I will say this every one of

586
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: you that wants to help other Americans right now then

587
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: maybe losing their jobs, please send them a link to

588
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: this podcast so they know how you can fight back

589
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: and what your rights are. So if you'll help more

590
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: Americans see this, that is only going to help us

591
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: organize and fight back. And I will see you back

592
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: here tomorrow