WEBVTT - Spotlight on Vint Cerf 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.160 Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve cameray. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:09.040 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:18.320 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello there, everybody, 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.880 and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Polette. 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm an editor here at how stuff works dot com 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.919 and sitting next to me as usual as senior writer 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.520 Jonathan Strickland. Hey there, all right, we're gonna get back 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.599 in your new discussion of our discussion that we had 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.520 long abandoned. For those of you who are a long 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.440 time listeners, we used to talk about some of the 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.360 personalities that we think had a huge impact on the 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.120 tech world, and we kind of haven't done it a one. Yeah, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.519 we we we hit a few big names early on, 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.320 like Dean Cayman and Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, and 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.360 then we kind of went quiet for a while. So 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.320 we thought we'd go back and revisit that kind of 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.000 uh you know topic. It's it's interesting to talk about. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:04.120 So today we're talking about venton vent Surf. All right, 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.520 where do you want to start from the beginning? Yeah, Well, 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.440 a lot of you, uh you younger listeners might not 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.480 have ever heard of him. Yeah, but he's very important. 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.080 As a matter of fact, you probably would not be 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.600 listening to us at all if it were not. Actually, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.800 we probably wouldn't have the jobs we have right now 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.479 if it weren't for Venten Surf. Thank you, Mr Surf. 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:28.920 Right um ac, Yes, doctor Surf. In fact, he holds 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.199 many degrees, Yes, he does, lots and lots of degrees. 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:34.200 So he has a he has a PhD in computer 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.840 science and uh um he has a Bachelor of Science 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.399 and mathematics, and then he has all these honorary degrees. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:44.640 Um smart, smart, guy, wicked smart, you might say if 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.360 you were from the northeast. Um. So he's also referred 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.760 to very often as one of the fathers of the Internet. 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.400 And you might wonder why that is, Like did he 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.640 actually build the physical uh machines that make up the Internet. Well, 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.680 to to really understand this, when to go back a 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.920 little before Vinton Serf became involved in this project. How 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:11.280 far back? Alright, So back in the fifties, the nineteen fifties, Yes, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.280 not the seventeen fifties or anything like. You're going that 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.880 far back. The fifties alright, So the Soviet Union launches 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.320 sput nick all right, very small round silver thing that 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.919 beeped a lot went beep. That's pretty much all it did, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.840 and m and scared people. And it scared people for 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.480 two reasons. One they were thinking, does this mean that 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.360 the Soviet Union can spy on the United States because 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.640 the United States and Soviet Union were then engaged in 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.480 what was known as the Cold War. And yes, and 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.680 and even more frightening than that, if the Soviet Union 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.600 had the capability of launching a rocket into space, it 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:53.160 could also launch a rocket at the United States and 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.760 cause massive amounts of damage. Now, at this time, computers 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.920 were rare. There are only a you computers in the 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.880 United States. Um. And they were big, huge machines, taking 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.800 up entire floors of buildings in some cases. And um 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.840 they're centralized. They were not able to communicate with one 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.639 another in any easy way. So there was a need 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.160 to find a way to have computers communicate with one 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:25.280 another so that you decentralize this computing power. UM. Because 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.360 the idea was that if if there were an attack 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.720 on the United States on one of these computing sites 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.839 and it was hit, you would lose that information forever, right, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.080 So you wanted to find a way where you can 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.000 move information around very quickly, and you wanted to create 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.520 it in such a way so that if one particular 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:46.440 site were hit, the entire network could still function without it. Right. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.600 So this was this became the the area of interest 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.880 for the Department of Defense UM. They had the Advanced 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.760 Research Projects Agency, which at the time was called ARPA. 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:02.440 We now know it as DARPA UM and they wanted 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.320 to come up with this computer network idea, the way 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.160 of networking computers together so they can communicate. And uh, 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.080 and so the ARPA net project began. Yeah, this is 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.560 the late sixties, right right, And uh, that might sound 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.720 somewhat familiar to you because you're thinking, well, you know, 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.960 the Internet is a bunch of computers connected together that 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.600 that you know, Hey, look that's the Internet. Well yes, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:32.320 but not quite yet, because it's all these computers. We're 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.760 all running different and very odd operating systems in a 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.800 lot of cases written specifically for that machine, right, And 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.000 and so they didn't really talk the same language exactly. 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.320 And the Internet is really a network of networks, so 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.840 it gets a little more complicated. Arpanet was really just 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.520 a network, that's true. Yes, the arpanet was the Internet 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.640 didn't exist on the scale, and it did does now right. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.560 In fact, at the beginning, Arpanet only had four nodes 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.600 um for computers that were connected to another, so it 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.960 was one network. But yes, as Plett pointed out, each 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.680 of these computers had its own sort of proprietary language. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.279 Now they could all understand binary, but that's about it. 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.440 So one of the challenges was to find a way 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.440 to connect these computers together physically because they were located 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.479 miles and miles and miles apart um across the United 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.320 States in one case, and then beyond that, find a 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.160 way where once they're physically connected, how can they actually 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:33.760 exchange information. So in the nineteen seventies, remember nineteen sixties 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:35.719 was when ar Ponnette the project started. Now, in the 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:40.640 nineteen seventies, Venton Surf joined the Arpanette project, and it 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.440 was Venton's job, along with a couple of others, including 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.200 Robert Kahn, to come up with a way to create 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.560 a protocol, a set of rules for these computers to 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:56.080 use to communicate with each other that any computer could understand. Now, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.520 the original protocol was the Network Control p call. Wasn't 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.360 that network something like that? It was a network communication protocol, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.240 I guess is what it was, the n c P. Yeah, 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.279 and I remember it by its initials. I don't remember 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.280 the initials. Someone will right in and correct me. So 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.120 that's that's fine. I'll address that in the future episode. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.480 But the n c P UM. The problem with n 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.279 c P was that it didn't scale very well. It 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.200 just didn't have the capability to handle lots of computers. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.320 That worked fine for a small scale and didn't Surf 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.560 originally worked a little bit on this project, but everyone 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.400 realized I needed to find something new if they wanted 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.680 to create a real network of networks. Believe that's network control, 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.440 program control. I just only see I didn't hit all right, 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.240 So you don't have to write in because Plett actually 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.560 just pulled up this municipal thing called Google, which I've 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.880 heard about. You know it it works over this thing 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.560 called the Internet. Yeah, well we're getting there and that 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:52.360 runs on alright. So what we're getting to is the 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.440 TCP slash i P protocols. And I know there's someone 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.240 out there right now who's yelling at me because as 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.640 the P stands for protocol, and I said protocols, just 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.920 you know, take a volume, Take a deep breath, it's 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.720 gonna be all right. So these the t c P 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.239 and i P protocols. Uh, so you might be wondering, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.200 all right, so what the heck are these things? So 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:18.760 i P stands for Internet Protocol. TP is Transmission control protocol, yes, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.480 and the i P what that does. It moves the 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.240 packets of data around from one node to another. That's 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.000 the that's the set of rules that governs that transmission 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:32.360 of information. YEP. Like everything else computer, it has to 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.680 be planned down to a very fine set of details. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.320 And so this is basically the highway part of the 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.800 information super highway. If we're gonna overuse that metaphor, but yeah, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.200 I mean it has to have the the right paving 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.560 that the cars can travel on if we're gonna go 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.080 with that. Okay, So the t c P I P 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.239 helps packets get from one place to the other because 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.680 you know, they need the right type of of transmission 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.400 to get from one place to the other. So that's 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.520 the one that everybody is settled on now. It's very efficient, 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.880 it works, you know. And the Transmission control protocol part 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.680 is uh, that's what is responsible for verifying the correct 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.600 delivery of data from client to server. So they're kind 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.000 of two different protocols that are always grouped together, so 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.240 we almost think of them as a single entity. That's 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.920 why you usually hear TCP slash I p UM. And 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.920 without it, we wouldn't have a standardized way of of 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.000 exchanging information across the network, which would mean that when 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.160 you had two different networks and you wanted to connect 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:37.719 the too, you would have to find a brand new 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.280 way to have them communicate without this protocol. But because 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.400 this was set upon so early, UM, we can thank 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.679 that and serve for creating a way for different computer 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.040 networks to exchange information. So if you work at a 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.000 at an office that has its own computer network, or 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.440 if you go to a college or school that has 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.560 its own network that also connects to the Internet, the TCP, SLASH, 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.600 I p those those protocols, that's what allows you to 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.640 to get that information. Otherwise he would only be restricted 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.880 to whatever happened to be on your local area network. Yeah, 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.320 and I think, uh, I think this important piece of 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.360 work is why he has so widely recognized, although there's 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.520 so many other things that he's involved in. UM. You know, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.160 of course, now he's the vice president and Chief Internet 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.160 Evangelist for Google. Yes, I like that chief Internet evangelist 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:36.600 step forward and be healed here. Well, well, not exactly. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.440 I know. I'm sorry. I was brought up in the 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.040 Bible belt. Well that's you know, that's one form of 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.320 evangelism that, yes, he does. He is sort of an 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.880 ambassador for the Internet. Not like the Internet needs one. Um, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.520 but yeah, he's he's Um, he's a big important guy 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.880 over at Google. In fact, he was so important that 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.240 he was on the list of a lot of people's 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.360 guesses for who Bamba might pick as ct O. That's true, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.400 that's true. That's a brand new office, the the Chief 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.440 Technology Officer of the United States. Um And he was 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.200 on a list of some very distinguished names. Yes, but 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:18.560 was not ultimately chosen. No. Um, but that's that's neither 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.040 here nor there. Let's let's stick on, Mr sir. Well, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.319 I'm not sure. I'm not sure he would have left 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:28.839 Google anyway. Yeah, see gig So, so let's say, all right, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.000 so he was working with DARPA until the early eighties. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.200 Um So, through the seventies into the eighties, he he 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.160 helped he and Robert con helped define exactly how the 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.040 transmission of data was going to to happen across networks. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.200 Uh in the early eighties. Now remember this is this 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.160 is back when the Internet is still pretty much just 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.360 in the realm of government agencies and universities. So he 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.199 leaves and joins the m c I. Who comes a 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.800 vice president of m c I for a while. Then 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.880 for a while he was a vice president for the 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.240 Corporation for Natural Research, initially of National Research Initiatives. Yes, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.199 I natural it's a national didn't I, I don't know. Well, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:13.480 then Corporation for National Research Initiatives. Naturally, and because I 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.000 do do that, it happens. But then after that he 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.720 went back to m c I became a senior vice president. 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.440 He was there until about two thousan five and eventually 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.280 then he made his way over to Google, where he Um, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.080 he still does a lot of important presentations. Um, he's 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:37.200 still very much involved in and things that are transmission 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.480 of data across networks. I mean, he's still very, very 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.600 heavily involved in that kind of work. Well, it makes 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.920 a lot of sense, you know, given how invested Google 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.600 is in the Internet, you know, not just the search 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.760 engine aspect of the company, but you know, they do 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.240 so much innovative work on new initiatives. That makes sense 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.000 that they would want someone along who had that kind 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.760 of experience. I mean, they their goal is to organize 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.719 the world's information. That's that goes so far beyond just 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.400 the Internet in a way you think the Internet search 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.319 engine that was the first step. Ultimately Google will be 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.640 in charge of everything or else, which is why I 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.800 joined ranks early, working my way up. You know your 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.640 place in the in the Google Yes, exactly, I'm I'm 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.760 I'm a low level evangelist for Google. So um. But yeah, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.520 let's let's talk about some of the other stuff. He's 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.120 he's also involved in the UH in the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:43.640 He's he's working on a design for interplanetary Internet. Interplanetary Internet. Yeah, 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.480 I you know what, I didn't turn that one up. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.120 You didn't know that. Yeah, that was one of the 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.640 projects that the Jet Propulsion Laboratories working on is finding 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.079 a way to create Internet links so that when man 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.560 does colonize things like the Moon or Mars, that there 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.440 is a way to have of Internet communication between the 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.600 Earth and wherever those other folks happen to be. You know, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.400 when they when they get to Mars and some of 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.520 those other places. They're going to find that there's a 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.319 Starbucks in a subway on every corner, are they. Well? 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:13.920 I was thinking that when they get to Mars, there 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.839 darnwell gonna want the internet because what else is there 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.199 going to be doing? I mean, besides surviving? What else 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.120 do you have to do? That's a good point. How's 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:28.840 the weather, red? Yeah? Kinda wait, back to a back 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.520 to events surfing, right, we were talking about him. I 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.360 was amused to find out that he was a technical 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:39.040 advisor for Gene Roddenberry's Earth Final Conflict, and he even 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:43.240 made a guest appearance in Yes I remember it well. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.600 He's even been on Next Wave with Leonard Nimoi, Live 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:52.120 Long and prosper So, so you know, yeah, he's a 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.120 happening guy. Yeah. Yeah, unless he's a you know, a 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.839 fellow of the I triple e yes. Yes, And he 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.839 said on the board of CAN and a C M 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.400 and a A S. And he has has Academy of 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.600 Arts and Science and he has more awards than I 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:13.360 can even count. I actually, uh, honestly, guys, I honestly 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:18.000 had a photo of vents surf hanging in my cubicle 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.560 until fairly recently. That is very impressive. It was given 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.440 to me by our own Candice Keener, after I had 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.400 no idea. I wrote, and well, this is I'd seen 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:28.920 it there, but I didn't know that's where it came from. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:30.800 For those of you who are who are keeping up 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.920 with all of our podcasts, and you know Candice Keener 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.920 from the stuff you missed in history class, Candice used 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.000 to be my editor, but then apparently she did something 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.320 right and I got shifted over to Pallette, who apparently 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.880 was behaving poorly and that's why he has to be 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.960 edit me. So but yes, back when Candice was my editor, 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.560 I wrote a couple of articles about our pinette and 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.920 how did the Internet get started, which involved Vent and Surf, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.880 and it was apparently quite clear that I admired the man, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.320 and so she printed out ay a photo of Mr Surf, 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.600 doctor surf um with a loving message beneath it, and uh, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.080 I had that up in my cubicle until very recently. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.080 I took it down when when Discovery Communications people came 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.840 through the office. Well, um, you know, I just think 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.680 that doctor Surf is one of those people that has 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.600 had such an amazing role in all of our lives, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.480 but you just don't really know. Yeah, he's not one 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.120 of those personalities that gets out there and you know, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.840 it's not not sort of an attention hound or anything 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.760 like that. And and he's definitely not you know, the 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.320 he's not in the foreground of any particular movement or anything. 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.280 So it's quite possible that if you're not you know, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.320 if you're not a student of the Internet, you wouldn't 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.040 even know his name. That that's uh, that's very true. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.840 And there are lots and lots of other people who 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.000 have played a part like that. Yeah, the team we 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.440 should we should hasten to add that the team that 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.560 designed to our pannette and the the other systems that 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.880 eventually morphed into the Internet, uh, was rather large. Um. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.040 There were dozens of people involved in this, not just 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.120 than Surf and Robert Kahn, there are plenty of others 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.640 and um uh and all things considered, they built it 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.440 in a very short period of time, got it to work. UM. 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.680 Just very impressive. Yeah, and it's one of those things 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.440 where people were impressed at that that things like the 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.240 TCP slash i P was able to scale so well 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.760 because originally there was talk of of of redoing it 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.480 before the Internet really took off. Um, But they discovered 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.200 that was much more robust than they had they had anticipated, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.760 so it ended up serving just fine. Um. That's probably 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.200 one of the reasons why some people talk about the 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.120 need for an Internet too, because we can build on 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.840 what we learned from Internet one and create an even 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.320 better system. Now, the thing is that the original Internet 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.960 is so well entrenched at this point, Um, doesn't make 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.800 more sense to create a brand new system or does 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.880 it just make more sense to keep on adding to 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.240 the one we've already got. I sense foreshadowing here. What then, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.880 maybe we'll do an article or or a podcast later 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.119 about Internet to I wouldn't say that we're going to 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.879 do a podcast later about Internet to know. You wouldn't know, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.200 but we are, Okay, so you did. Yeah anyhow, Yeah, 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.960 it'll probably come much later, after we've done a lot 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.520 more research. But yeah, it's you know, it's a testimony 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.760 to how well it works and how robust it is 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.000 that that we're still using it thirty years later plus 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.080 years later. And now granted now most of us are 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.560 only been using it for since the at the earliest, 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.199 since the early nineties. I guess some some of us 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.400 probably earlier than that, if we've worked on government systems 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.439 or in colleges. But um, I remember my first real 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.800 encounter with the internet had to be when I got 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:58.560 into college, so sometime around ninety three, maybe I just 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:03.359 gave away my age. Yeah yeah, yeah, mine was before that, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.400 So I remember the clay tablets. I remember I wrote 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:12.040 about that. So anyway, that's a that's a that's a 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:17.200 just a brief rundown on Mr Doctor surf um and 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.439 hopefully you learned a little bit more about him in 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.399 this podcast. He's, like we said, a very fascinating person. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.080 So and you know, if you want to read more, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.760 there's plenty of information out there about him. And as 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.000 we said, he's still very much active in guiding the 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.080 way we transmit information. So once again, thank you Dr 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.520 Surf because I like this job. Yeah no kidding, Well, 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.199 that wraps up all I had to talk about. Do 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.280 you have anything else you when I add, not really? Well, 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.359 I guess that just brings us back round again to 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:57.119 listener me. You know, you can thank TC T I 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.240 P for allowing you to hear that sound or a 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.880 cursive whichever is you know you prefer, I know which 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.960 I prefer. So this email comes from Robert in Indiana. Hi, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:09.720 I just wanted to write and tell you guys, I 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.159 love your podcast. I had a question though about IP addresses. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.520 What exactly are they and why are they important? So 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:17.960 we you know, we talked a little bit about the 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.880 Internet Protocol, so I thought we could kind of hit 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.920 IP addresses. UM. One of the ways, the one of 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:30.000 the reasons the Internet actually works is because this this 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.560 IP address idea it gives it's like a physical address 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.240 in a way, except that you know, it's not anchored 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:41.359 to a physical location, but it's one allows computers to 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.639 find one another, so that you can transmit information to 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.119 and from one computer, and you know, or two different 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.520 computers really work. I think hundreds and hundreds of computers 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.879 when you actually look at the process. But without IP addresses, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.560 no computer would know where any other computer was, and 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.359 you wouldn't be able to get any information at all. 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.920 So your IP address, you can think of it sort 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.120 of like a street address in a way. Again, it's 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.000 not tied to a geographical location, but it is how 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.800 your computer identifies itself and identifies other computers, so that 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.200 trans the transmission of information can occur. Yeah. Um, it's 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.800 actually very not particularly pleasant to look at. It's uh, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:26.040 in most cases, four sets of numbers, right, um, separated 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.399 by dots UM, and generally might be something like zero 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.439 dot one oh one, dot two oh five, dot six. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:39.800 Oh you're gonna get emails? No go ahead? What? No? No, 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:44.080 no go ahead? All right? Anyhow, that's that's I p 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.680 V four UM, And that's that's generally what we use now. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.320 And there are a lot of different combinations that you 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.199 can create with that, which gives us a lot of 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.040 different IP addresses. Of course, um. Coming up, they're working 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.200 toward a newer system called i p V six, which 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.359 offers even more combinations of numbers. Um. But yeah, I 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:08.080 mean it's not like you know, two Main Street, you know. Uh, 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.200 it just uses a series of numbers and dots that 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.600 that helps you know, the information get to where it's 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.000 going from my place to the next. And the what 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.680 you're familiar with domain names, those are really just kind 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.240 of a just sort of a mask that sits on 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.879 top of the IP address and that sort of humanizes 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.960 the IP address its remember and otherwise we would have 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.000 to remember these strings of numbers to send information to 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.840 specific computers, and that one't necessarily works so well because 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:41.119 not every computer has a static IP address. I would 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.840 think most don't. That's very true. Actually, I I used 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.720 to work for an Internet service provider and UM. One 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.159 of the things they found out was that, you know, 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.320 they couldn't if everybody had a static IP address, which 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.360 means one that doesn't change. UM. They had to continue 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.040 to buy more I P addresses, right, And the problem 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.719 with that is, you know, well John and hasn't been 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.720 home for a week and his IP address is going unused. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.119 So finally they said, you know, look, we need to 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.800 assign these dynamically. You'll see dynamic IP addressing. That means 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.840 we've got a pool of fifty I P addresses and 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.440 forty five people are online at any given time, then 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:22.320 we can just assign them as needed. You know, it's 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.280 yours as long as you're online and it doesn't change UM, 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.800 and as soon as you log off, it gets reassigned 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.240 to somebody else, and all the information that goes from 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.000 that person's computer to the Internet and back with whatever 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:38.239 information they're doing they're using, UM gets to where it's 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.479 supposed to be going. But that's the difference in static 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:44.120 and I p uh stack and dynamic IP addressing and uh, 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:48.359 you know it is a hard and fast identifier, but 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.400 your IP is probably assigning one to you on the fly, 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.440