Speaker 1: It's PM in Seattle and you're listening to Night Call.
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to Night Call, a podcast for
Speaker 1: your strange days and lonely nights. I'm Molly Lambert here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and also with me in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: has Lynch. And over in New York we got Emily Yoshida,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Cafe Vosa. And also with Emily Yoshida
Speaker 1: our producer Ben Hasley, who is going to join us
Speaker 1: for a new segment called Ben Hasley's Arrowood Corner. I
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, you were saying that you had a weekend,
Speaker 1: a fun weekend where you took mushrooms and went to
Speaker 1: a virtual reality experience. It was a virtual reality arcade.
Speaker 1: It's down the street from where we record Night Call
Speaker 1: here in New York. There's this and it's very perplexing
Speaker 1: to me because every time I passed by it, there's
Speaker 1: usually a group like a Hasidic school group there, But
Speaker 1: that's like the only large group I ever seemed to
Speaker 1: see going there. So I'm like, they really got that
Speaker 1: market corner in Times Square. It's like midtown, Um. It
Speaker 1: would not be my personal place to do hallucinogens. I
Speaker 1: think I think that would probably maybe ruin midtown for me,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Some people like an intense experience
Speaker 1: like that. I had a little bit of a mind warrior. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had a friend who remember took mushrooms and went
Speaker 1: to Body Worlds, which is the My God, the Body
Speaker 1: Worlds and and the X Games in one day rooms,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think the X Games would
Speaker 1: be glorious. That sounds fun. This was all downtown l A.
Speaker 1: So they went to the X Games and then they
Speaker 1: went to Body Worlds, and I was like, I feel
Speaker 1: like the last thing I would want to see on
Speaker 1: mushrooms is a dead body that sliced open, because I
Speaker 1: would already be having enough thoughts like that anyway. But
Speaker 1: some people like to lean in to the weirdness. Then
Speaker 1: can you walk us through what this was? Yeah, this
Speaker 1: would be a virtual reality, yeah exactly. Oh yeah, everyone
Speaker 1: put your glasses on imagination goggles. So, uh, it's two
Speaker 1: two floors and it's just all these different like I
Speaker 1: guess we can call them installations, but it's just essentially
Speaker 1: different games. Um So some of the ones that stood out,
Speaker 1: or the Zombie Attack game where you are and four
Speaker 1: other players are defending yourselves from waves of zombies that
Speaker 1: are attacking you. Oh no, so that was intense. Um, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of heights. They have one where you write
Speaker 1: an elevator up eighty stories and then you're basically on
Speaker 1: the edge or like of a of a building with
Speaker 1: like a plank and so in the space itself, it's
Speaker 1: just this like board that's maybe like half an inch
Speaker 1: off the ground. But when you are on mushrooms and
Speaker 1: you feel like you're on top of this building, I
Speaker 1: really really freaked out. It was you throw up down
Speaker 1: eight stories imaginary stories. All right, so this is the
Speaker 1: terrible thing. I didn't make it to the end. But
Speaker 1: even if you do make it to the end, you
Speaker 1: still fall and then watch yourself fall to the ground, Yes,
Speaker 1: to your death? Is it always in that way? Who is? Why? Now?
Speaker 1: Back in that sounds like the cyberpunk future I wanted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you go to a booth in midtown and re I
Speaker 1: did you? Did you get to do any of the
Speaker 1: ones where you're like sitting in a French cafe watching
Speaker 1: the rain. When I went to the forty Film Festival
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, they had like an oculus.
Speaker 1: They had a whole virtual reality section, and the best
Speaker 1: one was you're sitting doodling in a notebook in a
Speaker 1: French cafe and it's just like you could go on.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if there's one where it's like
Speaker 1: you look at the ocean in virtual real? There those
Speaker 1: some of them are like slow teeth virtual reality. Um
Speaker 1: we I have a virtual reality friend. I'm going to
Speaker 1: make her calling with a night call and explain v
Speaker 1: ARE to us because she has a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: about the field. I wanted to explain what who thought
Speaker 1: up a fun game where you climb up a skyscraper
Speaker 1: and die? Well, it seems I can't even get it
Speaker 1: licensed by that movie The Walk. It seems like it's like,
Speaker 1: you know how, like the first films were like the
Speaker 1: train pulling into the station and stuff. It seems like
Speaker 1: it's like that. It's like, what are what are the
Speaker 1: things we can depict through virtual reality? Death? Death, a cafe?
Speaker 1: What else? What else? This is the thing it's gonna shape.
Speaker 1: It's going to shape the next hundred years of of
Speaker 1: VR narrative. Is that we the first thing we went
Speaker 1: to was like what if we died? It's just all
Speaker 1: like I guess like maybe it could be non chemical
Speaker 1: like d MT if you just simulate your own death
Speaker 1: in VR and then you get to have all the
Speaker 1: all your brain really sell the chemicals. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm I was afraid of elevators for a
Speaker 1: really long time, so a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 1: they recommended, like exposure therapy. But I'm like, what if
Speaker 1: you just like simulated your death at an elevator and
Speaker 1: then it just got you over it forever or it
Speaker 1: traumatized you really badly? How would you How would you
Speaker 1: rate the experience? Ben? Yeah, what if this was your
Speaker 1: post on on Arrowood about air your experience, I would say, don't, um,
Speaker 1: don't do it, don't take drugs and do it. Uh
Speaker 1: it was, but I was so exhaust I put my
Speaker 1: body through so much. So yeah, overall, I'm gonna say experience,
Speaker 1: but don't take psychedelics. There were some of the other ones.
Speaker 1: How many were there? Oh, there's so many? Uh racing ones.
Speaker 1: Um there was one. Uh you climbed up a mountain
Speaker 1: that was interesting. Uh. Yeah. A lot of it really
Speaker 1: was like a workout. Like yeah, you're like, I've had
Speaker 1: my body through a lot climbing Virtual Warrior. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: does seem like too much activity for maybe a psychedelic
Speaker 1: experience where you might just want to like contemplate things
Speaker 1: real slowly. Yeah. Oh man, I was so sweaty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll see my favorite one though, by far as the
Speaker 1: art uh installation. So what it is is it's just
Speaker 1: essentially a canvas and empty space that you're in. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and then it's like tilt brush. Have you ever done that?
Speaker 1: Is it the same thing as siltbrush? I believe so
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with tiltbrush. It's a Google thing, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really fun. This week's episode of Night Call is
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Speaker 1: off your first fab fit Fun box. Have you guys
Speaker 1: done much much virtual reality? You've been enough? Like film festivals,
Speaker 1: they must have like a VR component. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: the first of you I saw were so boring that
Speaker 1: I was like again, but then like yeah, doing stuff
Speaker 1: like like where you get to just draw or it's
Speaker 1: like of a freeform thing. It's not so narrative driven.
Speaker 1: I was kind of into that stuff. You put the
Speaker 1: glasses on? Is that what makes it VR? Well, it's
Speaker 1: like a yeah, it's like a whole a masking seperial
Speaker 1: basic questions. Do you put the glasses on? Well? I
Speaker 1: just remembered that I did one at a v N
Speaker 1: that was a porn one, but it was great because
Speaker 1: you didn't have to participate. It was just like you
Speaker 1: were in a room full of people having sex and
Speaker 1: you just like look around. There was one of those
Speaker 1: at the forty Film Festival too, where it was the
Speaker 1: most interesting man in the world add VR thing back
Speaker 1: when the most interesting man in the world still had
Speaker 1: his job. Should but you just like look you you
Speaker 1: were just at like his party and there was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I like that. I like the ones where
Speaker 1: you're just like in a room and you look around
Speaker 1: the room and stuff all over it. I like when
Speaker 1: you're just in a room and you look down and
Speaker 1: you don't have a body. Guys, what about a Frasier
Speaker 1: VR experience? So people have been writing in with like
Speaker 1: a lot of Frasier content, including VR, including Fraser himself
Speaker 1: feeling everybody rang the night, call alarm. This past week
Speaker 1: when it was reported by Deadline Deadline Right that that
Speaker 1: that Kelsey Grammer was trying to get a Frasier reboot
Speaker 1: off the ground, um, and I my immediate sense was like,
Speaker 1: this is just a trial to see how much this
Speaker 1: trends on Twitter. Like it's like going by the reaction
Speaker 1: that they get. Maybe somebody showed him the memes. Maybe
Speaker 1: he saw some memes and was like, I am popular
Speaker 1: on social media. People have been talking a lot about
Speaker 1: Frasier for a while. It's not just us, although we
Speaker 1: are definitely the most prompt we started it. We don't
Speaker 1: claim as much credit for it as we should. But
Speaker 1: we were on Fraser wave long before many other people. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't because we were like, let's pick a
Speaker 1: weird show to like, just we're talking about it. I
Speaker 1: think probably because Emily is from Seattle and we were like,
Speaker 1: what shows do we like to watch that are just
Speaker 1: like well, And at that point I felt like I
Speaker 1: still hadn't really come out in public with my spiel
Speaker 1: about like how Fraser is actually really really funny and
Speaker 1: like the like comedic structure of it. I think it's
Speaker 1: just like totally joyful. It is. It is. Uh, it
Speaker 1: is one that I enjoy a lot, and I thought
Speaker 1: about a lot. It's like a mathematical formula. It's like
Speaker 1: watching spu or something. You're like, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: it's like a farce. It'll come back like three times.
Speaker 1: It's also just its own flavor. It has flavor unmatched.
Speaker 1: We like a three camera comedy. But you could have
Speaker 1: a reboot. Well I do not. I think no, I
Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want anything. I honestly don't
Speaker 1: want any money for Kelsey Grammar. No on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's it go straight to Camille. First of all, there's
Speaker 1: no John Mahoney. He was like he was the Heart
Speaker 1: and Freeze. But also I read something on Slate by
Speaker 1: Lily Louf brow Um that was talking about how a
Speaker 1: re a reboot of Frasier would be like a white
Speaker 1: collar Roseanne and she I don't know like if she
Speaker 1: had information on this or she was just hypothesizing, but
Speaker 1: she was like, so at the end of the original show,
Speaker 1: he's going to move to San Francisco or maybe Chicago somebody. Okay.
Speaker 1: I think, like, because there's something else about the Buffy reboot,
Speaker 1: you know, where people like this is a terrible idea,
Speaker 1: and then they were like, no, no, don't worry, it's
Speaker 1: like a reimagining. And so I saw people being like
Speaker 1: things that could take place in the Frasier verse that
Speaker 1: aren't just like a straight up Frasier reboot, because I
Speaker 1: think we probably all agree that the only good reboot
Speaker 1: is Twin Peaks. Uh, And it was because it wasn't
Speaker 1: really a reboot at all of that show. It was
Speaker 1: just like part of the same universe. Yeah. So, I
Speaker 1: mean the one like serious suggestion I saw that I
Speaker 1: was totally down with was there was like one thirty
Speaker 1: rock cutaway joke about black Frasier, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what you should do, is like reboot a show
Speaker 1: and like change and something about it. Don't just like
Speaker 1: make it exactly the same show. Yeah. Again, almost like
Speaker 1: a dramaturgical kind of approach where you're like, I'm restaging display,
Speaker 1: but why now? And you have to figure out what
Speaker 1: The funny thing is about Frasier. The crux of Frasier
Speaker 1: is that Fraser and Niles are fancy pants that don't
Speaker 1: really like any person who met them would think like,
Speaker 1: how do you have the father you have? But then
Speaker 1: the father has to come and live with Frasier. And
Speaker 1: so it's like accepting your parents even though you feel
Speaker 1: like you've moved beyond them and are a much like
Speaker 1: of a like a different world than them. And I
Speaker 1: feel like you can apply that basic dynamic to so
Speaker 1: many different kind of us or just like also, people
Speaker 1: be like, especially if you're Kelsey Grammar and you're like
Speaker 1: a right wing psycho, why would you be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this worked out so well for Roseanne. Well, that's the
Speaker 1: other thing that I found kind of unsettling about what
Speaker 1: Slate was imagining was that it was that he had
Speaker 1: moved to San Francisco and was so um kind of
Speaker 1: appalled by the homeless crisis that he had been like
Speaker 1: turned into like a right wing Fox News guzzling guy.
Speaker 1: And then his son Frederick moves in with him, and
Speaker 1: then it's like a generation, you know, the next generation
Speaker 1: repeating the first of all. Frederick sucks. So I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even want Frederick in a in a Fraser reboot at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I would watch a show
Speaker 1: that was about like Eddie the Dog's Children r I
Speaker 1: p Eddie Eddie. I don't think we need it. I
Speaker 1: think I'm just yeah, make more new stuff, make something
Speaker 1: in that Vein. Don't should be another sitcom that takes
Speaker 1: place in Seattle, right, making another sitcom that takes place
Speaker 1: in Seattle. I want reboots of movies, and I want
Speaker 1: them to be rebooted into TV movies transposed to now.
Speaker 1: Like the other day, I was like Heartburn, I'd watch
Speaker 1: like a weird TV movie of like Heartbook. I talked
Speaker 1: about her. I want the relationship from I agree, Well
Speaker 1: that's you know, a star is born, It's gonna bring
Speaker 1: it bring like how am I going to feel? Emily?
Speaker 1: Where do you follow the stars born? This will be
Speaker 1: the second week that we'll talk about. I think we
Speaker 1: have a feature where we check in with each other
Speaker 1: about like each other's temperature. On Stars. It's been reboot
Speaker 1: It's a thing that's been rebooted fifteen times, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to protect us on topic. It's one of the
Speaker 1: great stories of our time. It is. It is, Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. One could say the only story I'm I'm
Speaker 1: down for whatever I mean, Like I I like that
Speaker 1: trailer a lot. Like not I like the trailer a lot.
Speaker 1: And my new my new theory is that musicals are
Speaker 1: popular again because it's the Great Depression look. Musical has
Speaker 1: been popular since Mulan Rouge. Like, uh right, thank you
Speaker 1: for knowing. I'm shamed. Um, that's ready for the bos
Speaker 1: I'm ready for the boss pod. You should be more
Speaker 1: ashamed if your Mulan Rouge fandom than your is your fandom. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed of any of it. It's all made
Speaker 1: me who I am. It's part of the wonderful, Like
Speaker 1: the Phantom of the Opera. Molly, you had been like
Speaker 1: thinking or talking about Bigfoot, and then some big some
Speaker 1: Bigfoot news dropped and Bigfoot was trending on Twitter. And
Speaker 1: it turns out that it was because um Leslie Cockburn,
Speaker 1: who was a Democratic candidate for Virginia's fifth district seat,
Speaker 1: had tweeted a screen grab of her opponent's instagram that
Speaker 1: featured a really buff Bigfoot with a bar, a censor
Speaker 1: bar over his penis, and she was like a my
Speaker 1: opponent has like some ties to white supremacy. B he's
Speaker 1: he's into big foot porn. Right, So like, first of all,
Speaker 1: don't complete those two things. No, don't, because that was
Speaker 1: what was so weird about it was was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: shame this person for being a white supremacist. Don't shame
Speaker 1: the for being into bigfoot port because who cares? Did
Speaker 1: you guys catch that she's Olivia wild Mom? Yeah, twist.
Speaker 1: So I was watching. I was just looking through Hulu
Speaker 1: because Hulu has the weird movie section, uh, and they
Speaker 1: have all these like homegrown weird documentaries and conspiracy documentaries
Speaker 1: that I will sometimes watch, and they had one that
Speaker 1: was like searching for Bigfoot, and I was like, how
Speaker 1: about this Bigfoot documentary is like one of those things.
Speaker 1: I suggested a hundred things to my boyfriend and he
Speaker 1: said no to all of them. And then I was like,
Speaker 1: Bigfoot documentary, it come so far out of left field?
Speaker 1: He has why not? And then it was like it
Speaker 1: was made by a company that was called like re Search.
Speaker 1: It wasn't Researched the book company, but it seemed like
Speaker 1: it could be. Maybe it was like a similar logo.
Speaker 1: It was very like this is not a real science documentary, clearly,
Speaker 1: But it was just interviews with like five people. They
Speaker 1: were all white dudes in the South who are like
Speaker 1: obsessed with Bigfoot, and maybe like three or four of
Speaker 1: them wanted to hunt him and kill him. You assume
Speaker 1: it's to him. I assume it's him. They wanted to
Speaker 1: hunt and kill Bigfoot so that Bigfoot could be scientifically examined.
Speaker 1: And then there was one who was a scientist who
Speaker 1: was like, how could we kill this creature? If we
Speaker 1: found it, we have to like put it in custody
Speaker 1: to study it. Yeah, why does it take a scientist
Speaker 1: to be like, don't murder the thing that you were
Speaker 1: seeking to find. Well, they were the most logical one,
Speaker 1: but it was just really long interviews with people where
Speaker 1: they talk about how they're so obsessed with Bigfoot, and
Speaker 1: some of it was like that they were like big
Speaker 1: game hunters and they were like the ultimate prize, but
Speaker 1: it was all about like nobody knows what's in the swamps,
Speaker 1: like anything could be in there. I feel like the
Speaker 1: genre of a bunch of guys who become like obsessed
Speaker 1: with a beast because or one guy who becomes obsessed
Speaker 1: with the beast because it represents something symbolically to him
Speaker 1: is like the most male genre. It is like will
Speaker 1: It was very male and it was very white, and
Speaker 1: there was something kind of unsettling about it, Like I
Speaker 1: was like, am I being prejudiced that I am just
Speaker 1: assuming these people are all racists? But maybe not, because
Speaker 1: maybe there is something least they're just trying to hunt
Speaker 1: a mythical Like talking about this a lot recently because
Speaker 1: it's like, you can we're into conspiracy theory, but not
Speaker 1: from the same point of view as people who like
Speaker 1: are into conspiracy theory because they're also racist. Well, I
Speaker 1: don't think. Also, I don't think we believe most of
Speaker 1: the we're interested in them as I think we're phenomenologists
Speaker 1: about conspiracy theory. We enjoy the phenomenon of conspiracies and
Speaker 1: thinking about how and why they get started and and
Speaker 1: a little bit of that is like whether or not
Speaker 1: we believe them or think there's any truth to them
Speaker 1: at all. But some of them are true. Like we
Speaker 1: talked about things that did happen like mk Ultra or
Speaker 1: like ration paper Clip that are like these things are
Speaker 1: so crazy they seem made up, but these were all
Speaker 1: like real chapters in American history that maybe we're covered
Speaker 1: up at the time, and like Area fifty one stuff
Speaker 1: obviously like something was happening, was it like space planes? Probably,
Speaker 1: but just it's interesting. Yeah, No, And I think I think,
Speaker 1: I mean a friend of the pot Andrew t I
Speaker 1: feel like has said several times on his podcast us
Speaker 1: this racist all kind of conspiracy theorizing, like the practice
Speaker 1: of being doubter in the reality, like in like consensual
Speaker 1: reality has given to us by any kind of like
Speaker 1: uh authority or governing body or anything. If that's just
Speaker 1: sort of like your default position, then that's almost always
Speaker 1: going to lead you toward white supremacy and ultra rightist
Speaker 1: type politics, which I think about a lot, because I
Speaker 1: think I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 1: There's been some really weird stuff happening recently that obviously
Speaker 1: like touches that too. Though, like all the stuff was
Speaker 1: like the twenty three and me and all the genetic stuff.
Speaker 1: We knew that and we all called that. Like Karina
Speaker 1: Longworth came on my other podcast, Molly Sleazy Friends, and
Speaker 1: I think on the first episode we were talking about
Speaker 1: it and about how like we thought it was a
Speaker 1: bad idea because like, well, no, but it's been reported, like,
Speaker 1: I mean it's been reported Pato, my x podcast partner
Speaker 1: at the Verge from virgsp like she did a lot
Speaker 1: of um reporting on that, and it seems like one
Speaker 1: of those things where everybody was like this is bad.
Speaker 1: I don't know it just like it feels so out
Speaker 1: of the sorry to bother you university anywhere. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't trust these companies. Well even before and me,
Speaker 1: ancestry dot com and genealogy websites were already super creepy
Speaker 1: because I don't know, like at one point, um, maybe
Speaker 1: like eight years ago, I started getting Google alerts that
Speaker 1: like someone had been just updating my family tree, not
Speaker 1: someone who was related to me, and they could add
Speaker 1: I mean any kind of information that they want and
Speaker 1: it's difficult to get it removed. So it's like I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I think definition of consensual reality seems
Speaker 1: to be like up in the air exactly. The practice
Speaker 1: as it is is traditionally recognized where it's just like
Speaker 1: for example, not trusting anything science scientific. So in that case,
Speaker 1: like a of you know, trusted mainstream media source with
Speaker 1: like like a science desk at a trusted mainstream media source.
Speaker 1: It says the twenty three or me is bullshit. But
Speaker 1: like you know, calling down killing down on something like that,
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm talking about, Like people who don't
Speaker 1: believe science and stuff like that, right, like anti vax people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it all kind of comes. It's hard to be like
Speaker 1: some of these things are true and some of them
Speaker 1: are not, but that's how it is. And like, who
Speaker 1: needs to make up cryptids? There's so many weird animal
Speaker 1: in the ocean and on the land that are already
Speaker 1: so weird and interesting. Yeah, well not if you don't
Speaker 1: believe science, because all those pictures of understand animals are fake.
Speaker 1: They're like if we haven't been there. It's like I
Speaker 1: feel like some of that info war stuff is like
Speaker 1: a five year old. It's like when you first have
Speaker 1: the thought when you're like eight years old, and you're like, wait,
Speaker 1: if I've never been there, does it again? You know,
Speaker 1: and then they just run with that for their whole laps.
Speaker 1: If we want to get back to the Bigfoot thing,
Speaker 1: I feel like this was less about Bigfoot as a
Speaker 1: as a conspiracy theory, you know, mainstay or Boogeyman, and
Speaker 1: more just like, I feel like, in a weird way,
Speaker 1: this is just um kind of a really really bad
Speaker 1: example of like the opposite of the whole James Gunn thing,
Speaker 1: like like throwing some dumb ass misinformation into the air
Speaker 1: and seeing what happens. But I feel like it mostly
Speaker 1: backfired in this case, misinformation being that he was like
Speaker 1: a serious Yeah, he was seriously into bigfoot porn or
Speaker 1: bigfoot erotica. So the background on that is so that
Speaker 1: this guy is Denver Riggleman, and I'm made up right,
Speaker 1: totally seems like a made up he claimed. He was like, look,
Speaker 1: it's a joke. My friends who are in the military
Speaker 1: have been making fun of me because he wrote like
Speaker 1: a little silly book about Bigfoot, which was I think
Speaker 1: was co written um with a guy who used to
Speaker 1: work at ESPN maybe even Anyway, they put this out
Speaker 1: and then Riggelman decided he was going to write and
Speaker 1: self publish a book called The Mating Habits of Bigfoot
Speaker 1: and Why Women Want Him. So the whole thing, he explained,
Speaker 1: was kind of a goof, but he was definitely still
Speaker 1: gonna self published. In reason, It's just like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why it is with these people but I think
Speaker 1: Emily's right, just just like once you don't believe anything,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it's all connected, and somehow it goes
Speaker 1: as Andrew two said, to white supremacy for dumb people
Speaker 1: like the people who actually believe in in Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: the people who are really like legitimately writing big Foot arotica.
Speaker 1: I feel like probably come from to polar opposite. Yeah, probably,
Speaker 1: Well what about Okay, so like maybe the antidote is
Speaker 1: like and rice vampire stuff, which is like supernatural paranormal
Speaker 1: stuff that's also like super super queer and pro you know,
Speaker 1: good things. Mostly, I mean, there's nothing wrong with being
Speaker 1: into Bigfoot. Obviously Cockburne should have just stuck with him
Speaker 1: out well, I don't know if he's a white supremacist,
Speaker 1: it's just he refuses to condemn them. So even if
Speaker 1: he's not out with them or something, right, and it
Speaker 1: is sad to muddy the waters with something as interesting
Speaker 1: as big foot porn because then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like, wait a second, and like this guy. Now,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm like, what's the deal with
Speaker 1: this guy? Whereas I just written him? But yeah, I
Speaker 1: was tweeting like an hour before it happened, I was like,
Speaker 1: we need more female representation in bigfoot experts as like
Speaker 1: a choke. Look what you've done, mom, And everybody was like, hey, Molly,
Speaker 1: story and can I always tell you guys about this
Speaker 1: amazing small press book of um Culu porn that I
Speaker 1: got erotica. It's a lot you can do with that.
Speaker 1: Most of the stories weren't that good. I've got it
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago at the Brooklyn book Fest.
Speaker 1: It's actually most of Yeah, most of it is not
Speaker 1: that great, and some of it is just like poems,
Speaker 1: just like erotic poems about Cuthulu. But maybe I'll bring
Speaker 1: that on next time. It's called um oh god, it's
Speaker 1: got this amazing name. It's something like it's like technacles.
Speaker 1: I can't remember. Yeah, night Call is pro hntai. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't. We don't think people should be shamed for
Speaker 1: liking hntai. You like what you like and if you can't,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem unethical to like fantasize about cryptids the
Speaker 1: same way other things that are maybe illegal should be.
Speaker 1: If you catch my drift, do we want to go
Speaker 1: to a dark place to talk about looks? Maxing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an article in the Huffington's Post by Jocelyn cook
Speaker 1: Um that Emily forwarded to us and was like, this
Speaker 1: is horrible, and it was about um looks maxing, which
Speaker 1: is the it's when in cells go to message boards
Speaker 1: one of them is lookism dot net, their Reddit boards
Speaker 1: and other similar boards and talk about making themselves more
Speaker 1: conventionally attractive, usually through plastic surgery, penis stretching, skull implants,
Speaker 1: that fun stuff. Um. Yeah, it's all the fun gamification
Speaker 1: of like getting into the female mind and tricking a
Speaker 1: woman into having sex with you, but like a crossed
Speaker 1: with the insane obsession of like a real self dot com,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite websites on me. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is one of those things where I'm like, obviously, what
Speaker 1: I would like is for all of this culture to
Speaker 1: go away, but since that's not going to happen, the
Speaker 1: idea that like men also have to be subject to
Speaker 1: the constant self improvement industrial complex too, I'm like, fine,
Speaker 1: in this context, it's terrible because if you in the article,
Speaker 1: I think one of the most disturbing things was that
Speaker 1: people are rating each other. So someone will say, like,
Speaker 1: here's a picture of my face. I want a square jaw,
Speaker 1: and someone will be like, well, you need a square
Speaker 1: jaw obviously, but you also need a more masculine head.
Speaker 1: You could do with a nose job. I'm not loving
Speaker 1: your hair more masculine head. What does that mean? I
Speaker 1: just they get three D printed implants and put them
Speaker 1: on the old MR. Okay, so the old m R.
Speaker 1: A line on this I thought was like, oh, women
Speaker 1: don't care about looks. All they care about is money. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's the Chads and Stacy. I thought they were like,
Speaker 1: you just get you get a great personality, and then
Speaker 1: which I have, You get super super rich and you
Speaker 1: can date super hot chicks. But the idea of like, no,
Speaker 1: you trick you trick them. No, it's they're saying, they're like,
Speaker 1: look at Chad, look at Stacy. It's unfair if you're
Speaker 1: not conventionally attractive, if you're too short, if you're losing
Speaker 1: your hair, like then the odds are stacked against you.
Speaker 1: And why why do they have to have Stacy? Why
Speaker 1: can't they go for like Maud because they deserve Stacy
Speaker 1: them as a as a girl. Well, they're saying that
Speaker 1: even mods are getting more sex than they are, and
Speaker 1: that it's unfair because even a woman who is less
Speaker 1: conventionally attracted the eighth grade. Oh wait, you think that
Speaker 1: this is based on reality. That's that's what we're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying like, if anything, we're about female in
Speaker 1: cell representation. Well, I think the problem with these websites
Speaker 1: too is that they end up like becoming these like
Speaker 1: angry echo chambers where people are not only criticizing each
Speaker 1: other's appearances and making each other more self conscious and
Speaker 1: more angry. But it's every so often there's like a
Speaker 1: thread of you know, and of course it's it, you know,
Speaker 1: stands the reason that like, eventually we're gonna get so
Speaker 1: mad that we're going to commit acts of violence, and
Speaker 1: then there's a community of people who are like right,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's it's deeply disturbing because even
Speaker 1: though I just wanted to be like real self dot com,
Speaker 1: this is this is the thing, is like I'm all
Speaker 1: about these fuckers hating themselves, right, but they're like myself
Speaker 1: so much I'm going to take it out on it there.
Speaker 1: I'd rather that money went to whatever that plastic surgeon
Speaker 1: was than to like some like some Republican vampaigns or
Speaker 1: whatever that's for example. Um, but I feel like the
Speaker 1: thing that I think, the creeping thing, I kind of
Speaker 1: nailed it because I was like, this is still unsettling
Speaker 1: to me, and like, even even beyond all the horrible,
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that's being spewed on the website,
Speaker 1: there's something that's so creepy to me. And there is
Speaker 1: something just incredibly I think triggering, or something about the
Speaker 1: obsessing overhead shape and head size because of you know, again,
Speaker 1: one of those things where I'm just like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: so lucky to have been born just out of this,
Speaker 1: out of having to be like out of it. We're
Speaker 1: in it. We're in it. But like we didn't have
Speaker 1: to be like in selfie culture until we were like
Speaker 1: basically teenage humans, you know what I mean. Like the
Speaker 1: idea of being like a thirteen year old who's self
Speaker 1: conscious and being like, rate me, tell me what to
Speaker 1: fix about myself, And then the idea that there's like
Speaker 1: things you can concretely spend money on they're going to
Speaker 1: make you feel better about yourself. It's so depressing because
Speaker 1: I don't think it will make you feel better about
Speaker 1: yourself either, we had all of that when when we
Speaker 1: were kids, though we had I saw I watched I
Speaker 1: printed so hard on all those MTV Real life's about
Speaker 1: plastic surgery, where the people were always like, I'm still unhappy,
Speaker 1: or like then they just wanted to get something else
Speaker 1: fixed immediately. It's True Life still on. That was so good.
Speaker 1: I found a cachet of it once on on their
Speaker 1: website and it's a good Yeah, it's a good show.
Speaker 1: But it also I was like everything because magazines have
Speaker 1: like partnered so hard with all the surgeons and stuff
Speaker 1: because they can't afford to not take the botox money.
Speaker 1: It just got so normalized, and beauty magazines is like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, you get you buy this lipstick and then
Speaker 1: you go get this procedure and those are the same thing,
Speaker 1: and obviously like people draw the i'ns at different places
Speaker 1: and like, but I feel I do feel like it's
Speaker 1: like you shouldn't be allowed to get anything done until
Speaker 1: you're like an adult, because your face shape is going
Speaker 1: to change. How different would you rate it from over
Speaker 1: tweezing your eyebrows? Very different, very different, very different. I'm
Speaker 1: throwing this out for the sake of argument because I
Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of basor modification things.
Speaker 1: I know, and I think about it all the time
Speaker 1: because I'm like, where do you draw the line, Like
Speaker 1: it's like dying your hair does that count? You know,
Speaker 1: like if you choose clothes to look nice, you like, see,
Speaker 1: I don't do any of that anymore. Or like what
Speaker 1: if powdered wigs came back and everybody had to have
Speaker 1: a powdered wig. I guess I'm like, I draw the
Speaker 1: line when it starts costing money, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: if over tweezing your eyebrows, you just buy. It's the
Speaker 1: money thing. It's the money thing. Because what I've seen
Speaker 1: that really strikes me as inciduous on O N T. D.
Speaker 1: And it's like become more normalized in the past few
Speaker 1: years in a way that really freaked me out because
Speaker 1: it was like young people being like, oh, I'm saving
Speaker 1: up for this surgery. You're like, oh, if I had money,
Speaker 1: I'd get the surgery and the surgery and a lot
Speaker 1: of people and the thing I saw that really freaked
Speaker 1: me out with somebody saying, oh haven't you heard that thing?
Speaker 1: Like nobody's ugly, just poor, And I was like Oh,
Speaker 1: that's the worst thing I've ever heard for every reason.
Speaker 1: So the idea that like there are new beauty standards
Speaker 1: and only rich people can't afford them, Like I've just
Speaker 1: come to really value like real faces. To bring it
Speaker 1: back to the looks, Maxine, I'm there's still a part
Speaker 1: of me that really I really have to in in
Speaker 1: the bombed out reality that we live in. Like I
Speaker 1: I try to struggle so hard to find the downside
Speaker 1: for guys having to deal with this, Like I honestly
Speaker 1: people have to deal with that. I think you're right,
Speaker 1: like on some level. But that's the thing is, I'm like,
Speaker 1: in an ideal world, nobody would have to deal with it,
Speaker 1: but nobody should have even we're already in this world.
Speaker 1: I'm fine. There's a part in that article where where
Speaker 1: one of the guys is saying, like I haven't left
Speaker 1: the house in in four months because I'm so ashamed
Speaker 1: of whatever my chin or something, and that's like, would
Speaker 1: like stay inside. I do think there's something so eugenics
Speaker 1: e to bring it, of course. Yeah, yeah, now that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like that's the part that really it
Speaker 1: creeps me out. That's the standard that they're going for
Speaker 1: is something very specific and something that discriminates against anything
Speaker 1: that's like an oversized feature, which is like, to me,
Speaker 1: what makes people like beautiful a lot of the times
Speaker 1: like something unique about their face. And there's like a
Speaker 1: certain face that everybody has now because of this doctor
Speaker 1: that I'll link you guys to on Instagram who does
Speaker 1: all the faces of all the young Hollywood people and
Speaker 1: they all have like literally the same face. And it's
Speaker 1: so weird because I don't. I'm also just a dumb
Speaker 1: idiot who doesn't realize what people have had done until
Speaker 1: somebody shows like a before picture and then I'm like
Speaker 1: I started to see it. It's weird how I switched
Speaker 1: flips and then all of a sudden you see it.
Speaker 1: I feel like, are one of the things that change
Speaker 1: your face the most, which is why I'm a little
Speaker 1: surprised at how common it is, because I think, like
Speaker 1: a lot of other things are a little more subtle
Speaker 1: or you don't recognize them right away. But like it
Speaker 1: blows my mind that anybody tries to get away with
Speaker 1: like saying no, I don't have anything done like you're
Speaker 1: just because it's just so obvious, Like I think it's
Speaker 1: like even just the tiny and I feel like it's
Speaker 1: its own look and that's fine. Yeah, and that's fine
Speaker 1: like when people go for it. It's when people try
Speaker 1: to convince you that it's just like, oh no, I
Speaker 1: just got appeal or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So as all
Speaker 1: the ways, if you have a night call that you
Speaker 1: want to share with us, you can give us a
Speaker 1: call at one to four oh four six night and
Speaker 1: you can also text us at that number now or
Speaker 1: send us an email at Nightcall podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Any of your questions, experiences, theories, whatever you got, We're
Speaker 1: here for you. And so a while ago we were talking,
Speaker 1: I mean, we definitely did several episodes where we talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about UM, shadow people, nights haares, just
Speaker 1: this general phenomen amanon of waking up in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night and having sleeper prolysis and having you
Speaker 1: a shadow we figure standing over you, UM. And we
Speaker 1: have a email from a caller or emailer who has
Speaker 1: UM who has requested that he remain anonymous. But um,
Speaker 1: this is it, right, Hello, Nightcall. In an older episode,
Speaker 1: you expressed some interest in various flukes of sleep, and
Speaker 1: that interest prompted me to write because sleep and I
Speaker 1: have a strange relationship that may interest you. I regularly
Speaker 1: experienced night terrors and exploding head syndrome. For me as
Speaker 1: an adult, night terrors involved vivid fantasies of a creature
Speaker 1: either shrouded in black or precisely resembling my twin brother
Speaker 1: sneaking into my bedroom brandishing a knife to stab me,
Speaker 1: while I can only lay their conscious but a mobile
Speaker 1: screaming and futility for someone to help me. The feeling
Speaker 1: is very difficult to describe. A night terror is the
Speaker 1: most horrifying and panic inducing episode I have ever experienced
Speaker 1: as an adult. They are just awful. Um. He goes
Speaker 1: on to talk about exploding head syndrome, which I've never
Speaker 1: heard of before me. Exploding head syndrome is for me
Speaker 1: an interesting consequence of being overcaffeinated, in which case, when
Speaker 1: I try to sleep, I immediately hear a low, loud,
Speaker 1: static laden burst of noise that would be deafening if
Speaker 1: anyone besides me could hear it. The sound is completely
Speaker 1: innocuous and not associated with any external source of potential noise,
Speaker 1: like nothing has to fall off a shelf at night
Speaker 1: to produce the noise. Etcetera. It only exists in the
Speaker 1: space between my ears. The existence of exploding head syndrome
Speaker 1: and the and in the academic literature is highly debated,
Speaker 1: but I'm writing to let you know it is real,
Speaker 1: has apparent causes, and it sucks. Do you all sleep
Speaker 1: well and if so, how and why? I would love
Speaker 1: to know how you sleep because I am terrible at it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this email. This is I've
Speaker 1: never heard of exploding head syndrome. I was fascinated by this,
Speaker 1: so I I this kind of reminded me of like
Speaker 1: one thing I've experienced a little bit that I did
Speaker 1: not realize was a thing until I heard it. Um.
Speaker 1: I heard it talked about. I think it was on
Speaker 1: this podcast called twenty thousand Hurts. It's about different sounds
Speaker 1: and there's like this kind of music in your head
Speaker 1: that a lot of people can hear before they have
Speaker 1: a sneizure. But I experienced it sometimes when I'm trying
Speaker 1: to go to sleep, and it's like kind of like
Speaker 1: your brain doing a remix of every sound you've heard
Speaker 1: over the course of the day. UM, synesthesia. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. No, It's just this sort of like it's
Speaker 1: almost like ringing in your ears, which is what the
Speaker 1: exploding head syndrome sounds. Kind of like it's related to
Speaker 1: ringing in yours, Like sometimes if you come back from
Speaker 1: a concert, like the ringing can be really really loud.
Speaker 1: Like there's a really good Oliver Sas book that's just
Speaker 1: about auditory and visual hallucinations and I like had to
Speaker 1: stop reading it because it freaked me out too much
Speaker 1: and made me feel like any of those things could
Speaker 1: It's happened to me at any time. But I forget
Speaker 1: it's called but totally recommend it. And I feel like
Speaker 1: this kind of goes back to the VR thing in
Speaker 1: a weird way. Uh yeah, are you guys insomniacs? Do
Speaker 1: you sleep well? You don't know, especially not lately. It's
Speaker 1: been like a billion degrees Emily, that's the worst. He's
Speaker 1: trying to sleep and heat is awful. Um. I require
Speaker 1: a lot of things to sleep well, but I UM,
Speaker 1: I will fall us. I will always fall asleep. I
Speaker 1: have no problem falling asleep. Sometimes staying asleep is harder
Speaker 1: for me. I'm a big Like, I'm really into falling
Speaker 1: asleep when I'm stressed out, Like I I can fall
Speaker 1: asleep so easily. When I'm stressed out, it's like the
Speaker 1: opposite of I think, how like I just a little call.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you have a lot of work, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm so tired. I had insomnia for um, like about
Speaker 1: ten years, and I did I had. I tried lunasta
Speaker 1: UM for a long time, but I had a side effect,
Speaker 1: which is in some people it creates a bitter taste
Speaker 1: in your mouth all the time, so even when you
Speaker 1: breathe air, it tastes like super bitter. So I couldn't
Speaker 1: keep taking it was horrible. And then I did thailand
Speaker 1: al pm for a super long time. Um, I did that.
Speaker 1: Of taking Thailan al pm. It's bad for your liver,
Speaker 1: so I would think. So yeah, I was taking it
Speaker 1: in high school. Um. And then I tried lunasta was
Speaker 1: during college, I think, and right after college I tried again,
Speaker 1: but I still had the bitter thing. But um, it
Speaker 1: was in high school so I wasn't drinking, so I was.
Speaker 1: I would take Thailan al pm every night, and then
Speaker 1: eventually it was like what am I doing? Um? And
Speaker 1: then I was. I did hypnosis, I did Valerian tea,
Speaker 1: I did um melatonin, I tried a bunch of things,
Speaker 1: and the only thing that worked is I realized that
Speaker 1: a lot of my insomnia was related to allergies. I
Speaker 1: would I'm like allergic to dust and allergic cats and
Speaker 1: allergic dogs. I have like all of these things in
Speaker 1: my house. And I started taking half a dose of
Speaker 1: Venadril before bed. And Venadril's the best, but it also
Speaker 1: is like safe if you're pregnant to take occasionally. I
Speaker 1: didn't take it all the time when I was pregnant,
Speaker 1: but I took unasam, which is safe for pregnancy, but
Speaker 1: occasionally take a benagell, but that that was the only
Speaker 1: thing that helped. Like, I still take bena drill almost
Speaker 1: every night. Wow, I've always been a night owl. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I've like fully given into it. And it's pretty depressing
Speaker 1: to be on the opposite schedule of everything. Really, it is,
Speaker 1: because the first few days you're like, I'm fine. At
Speaker 1: first it's exhilarating and then it's depressing. Um well, guys,
Speaker 1: speaking of self medicating, I just wanted to touch on
Speaker 1: on Sharp Objects, the mini series on HBO that we've
Speaker 1: been watching in various capacities. I've watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1: You guys are a little bit behind. I haven't watched
Speaker 1: any of it, so I'll just ask you guys about
Speaker 1: it because I'm familiar with both of the like the
Speaker 1: main creative forces behind it. But everybody talks like this
Speaker 1: on it. It's such a whisperration. I was watching it
Speaker 1: and my boyfriend kept and turn it up and I
Speaker 1: was like, it's all the way up. This is just
Speaker 1: what it's like. Even when they snap at each other,
Speaker 1: they like this, stop that, What do you do? What
Speaker 1: are you doing? It's so like everybody isn't a cool
Speaker 1: Kivin's character from Big Little Life. Yeah, and yeah, it's
Speaker 1: directed by the same person Bigottalize, and I personally don't
Speaker 1: know that that's the best person for it. People saying
Speaker 1: I feel like their style is very like slipstream and naturalistic,
Speaker 1: and like I kind of what I really want this
Speaker 1: to be is like more camp, more like less less
Speaker 1: naturalistic and more sort of like leaning into how melodramatic
Speaker 1: and can't be it is because the book is very
Speaker 1: melodramatic and that's what makes it good. But it's about
Speaker 1: Amy Adams is a journalist who goes back to her
Speaker 1: hometown of wind Gap Missouri, which is apparently a real place,
Speaker 1: and has to investigate a story about like neighborhood kids,
Speaker 1: neighborhood girls are getting killed by somebody, and she goes
Speaker 1: and stays with her creepy um and her creepy lolita
Speaker 1: ish younger sister in their creepy house, and she has
Speaker 1: this very loving newspaper editor who's like, you have to
Speaker 1: get the story and also work through your own demons.
Speaker 1: Um so not that loud, he doesn't say it. That's
Speaker 1: like she really needs to work through her demons. To
Speaker 1: his his compassionate wife, and they're both like, gee, we
Speaker 1: hope she works through them. This thing moves so slow,
Speaker 1: it moves I want to like it, and I'm sticking.
Speaker 1: I'm sticking with it, but holy I mean I was
Speaker 1: tapping my fingers on the coffee table, like, actually it
Speaker 1: is some slow TV. You know that. It's interesting too,
Speaker 1: because the book is like really well paced, and I
Speaker 1: think Gillian Flynn is a master at like putting really
Speaker 1: good cliffhangers and things, so that all her books are
Speaker 1: just intensely page turning. You have to get through them,
Speaker 1: and this it's like I feel like it could have
Speaker 1: been like three episodes instead of eight. I thought it
Speaker 1: was three and the when I found out it was eight,
Speaker 1: because I was like, man, they are really in this
Speaker 1: groundwork and just taking time to just be in this environment.
Speaker 1: So I've kind of shifted to enjoying it the way
Speaker 1: I enjoy Bloodline. I mean, the thing that makes this
Speaker 1: show intensely watchable to me is Amy Adams, who I
Speaker 1: just enjoy watching. She's great, and she just drinks so much.
Speaker 1: And they showed me I was I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: getting that she's an alcoholic, Like, I don't need this,
Speaker 1: I don't need mini bottles. And in the car every
Speaker 1: time you see her she is drinking vodka out of
Speaker 1: like a water bottle. It is delightful. Well, guys, this
Speaker 1: has been a delightful podcast. If you guys have if
Speaker 1: our listeners have suggestions for good summer shows, please send
Speaker 1: them our way at two four oh four six night.
Speaker 1: You can also email us at night Call Podcast at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and Facebook Nightcall Podcast on all but Twitter, we're Nightcall
Speaker 1: Pod there. And if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review and we'll see you all next week. Bye. Bye, goodbye,