WEBVTT - Small Businesses Agonizing Over PPP Forgiveness 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.240 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, al Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.600 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.760 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Not to be too much 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.440 of a homer to parochial, but we're very focused on 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.440 New York City and what's happening here because we remember 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.520 all too well what happened earlier in this pandemic. Let's 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.760 check in with Dr David Levy. He is chief executive 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.680 offer of E h E Health. He joins us on 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.559 the phone from New York City. Dr Levy, really nice 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.840 to have you with us. Thank you very much for 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.840 inviting me. So let's talk about New York. Let's get 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.640 right down to it. Because you're seeing the same numbers, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.920 and probably more numbers than we are. You're also looking 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.640 at them with a much more sophisticated eyes, certainly than 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.040 I am. What do we need to know? What should 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.280 we be worried about? What should we not be worried 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.840 about as we see this new data. Well, it's important 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.200 to understand that um uh, it's not unexpected that we 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.280 should get spikes and we should get focal outbreaks, particularly 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.080 since the only tools we have at hand or what 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.560 I call public health one oh one, namely masks, washing 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.520 your hands, social distance testing, UH, contact tracing, and quarantine. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.399 And frankly, if people relax from those disciplines, then we're 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.480 going to likely see focal outbreaks. And I think as 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.399 you see UH and UH has been highlighted by both 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.479 the government and mayor, some of these outbreaks are happening 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.440 in particular neighborhoods, and likely at the bottom of it 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.120 is people who have relaxed on those disciplines. Well, and 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.000 it's interesting. I wanted you to talk a little bit 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.800 about what you guys are seeing at your company, specifically 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.960 in terms of virus trends. UH and other healthcare trends 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:05.080 pandemic related or other. Right, So, uh, you know, what 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.480 we've been focused on not only is getting our folks 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.480 back to work and helping other companies get their folks 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.079 back to work, uh, and keeping people informed on kind 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:14.799 of what we call the public health one on one 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:20.320 and frankly cautiously optimistic through the emerging new technologies that 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.919 we believe by Q one of next year will really 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.640 make a dentedness and that's basically rapid testing anti virals 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.880 and vaccines. We think we're going to see the waning 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.440 of this and the economy coming back certainly by the 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.200 end of the first quarter of next year. Now I'm 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:40.400 saying that cautiously optimistically. You know, we call epidemiology the 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.680 exact science of probabilities. But in the end we feel 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.960 pretty comfortable about that. But we're we're now focused on 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.720 is what's going to happen after the epidemic. And what's 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.440 pretty shocking is some emerging evidence, particularly from some of 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.239 the large health payers. And I'm referring specifically to a 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.560 webcast we did in conjunction with the United Health Group 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.840 last week where we're are seeing upboard of fifty and 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.240 sixty of reduction of preventive health and maintenance visits for 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.520 people who have put off all of that healthcare because 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.079 they're staying home or because it's their state has gone 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.720 into lockdown. And there is going to be a very 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:22.120 significant accumulation of undetected cancers, undetected uh cardiovascular disease that 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.160 is going to start re emerging in two and I 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:27.919 think people are going to have to be we should 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.320 start thinking about now how to be prepared for that. 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.720 And that's simply because people just aren't going for checkouts 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.960 and so things that would be detected in the normal 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.720 course of business just aren't. That's exactly right. So let 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.760 me tell you some statistics for New York City wellness 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:50.440 visits down, diabetes screening down, breast cancer screening down, colon 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.800 cancer screening down. So we have a whole cohort of 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.920 maybe close to a year of people getting all this 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.680 stuff done who aren't getting it done. Well, you know, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:02.880 just because we don't do the testing doesn't mean they're 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.680 not going to have the disease. And ultimately we're going 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.000 to start seeing all of this backlog start to come 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.200 up and at a later stage, and really it's ugly 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.320 head frankly in the year two and beyond. So where's 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.800 the health care system helping individuals? Because I think what 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.799 happened was health care systems just shut down and basically 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.320 would only take COVID. You know, patients are dealing with COVID, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.839 and I understand it because these systems were strained. But 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.800 where is the health care community. You know, on a 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.680 large scale, this is a war. This is a health war, 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.240 you know, coming together and saying, Okay, this facility is 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.800 going to be for you know, routine checkups and routine 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.960 conditions and making sure that we're doing you know, colon 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.600 screening and and breast cancer screening and all of that. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.960 Where is that happening, especially if we go into a 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.200 second wave or as we were talking with some of 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:58.080 our our market folks, possible third wave. So, Carol, that's 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.320 a great point. Look buying necessity. When you have like 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.760 we had a New York and overwhelming number of cases, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.440 you have to focus on the people who are very 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.360 ill and who are dying, There's no question about that. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.880 But as you move through the stages where the hospitals 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.520 now have capacity and the health care system has capacity, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.159 you know, people are reopening all over the country. Primary care, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.520 preventive care, health systems are reopening and trying to encourage 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.000 their patients to come back. You see ads all over 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.760 the place. The problem actually isn't the health systems and 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.479 the and and and the and and the providers. The 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.159 problem is people are afraid. Uh, they don't understand that 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.920 they're not going to get COVID in hospital or the 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.400 doctor's office that has taken care of and made the 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.719 environment as safe as possible. They're going to get COVID 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.640 likely if they show up in bars, in crowds and 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.279 they're not wearing masks and they're not social distancing. It's 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.160 not a it's not a well controlled hospital, it's not 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.640 a well controlled doctor's office where they're going to get it, 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.479 and so and and Frankly, people are afraid. They're afraid 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.880 to use the public transfer system. They're really afraid to 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.080 step out and start re engaging in these behaviors and 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.200 and candidly at E H E Health, that's what we're 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.640 up to. We're up to reaching out to these people, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.480 helping them step out and get back into brown and healthcare. 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.760 We talked about preventive healthcare, and you know, Jason brought 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.240 up the point Dr David dr Levy that you know, 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.400 are we seeing kind of a rethink when it comes 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.479 to corporate health plans and just healthcare in general, that 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.080 it is becoming more about preventive. We know it needs 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.520 to be, but are we seeing any kind of concrete 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.120 steps that are taking us there. Yeah, well that's a 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.280 great question. So just as a backdrop, we published a 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.280 paper with our colleagues at the Mailment School of Public 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.719 Health at Columbia and IBM Watson Health in March showing 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:51.599 that despite Obamacare covering preventive visits, only about people go 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.120 and when they go they don't even get the right stuff. Now, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.160 the interesting thing about the COVID pandemic is that it 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:03.280 preference re league, hurts and kills people who have diseases 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:10.200 of lifestyle overweight, high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease. And 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.680 in fact, the mortality is about ten times uh the 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.080 expected mortality when you have one of those lifestyle diseases 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.160 and you get admitted to the hospital for COVID. And 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.920 so what employers are now becoming are now coming to 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:28.800 understand that having invested properly in prevention, you can actually 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.600 immediately reduce the co morbidity effect of the mortality of 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.800 of COVID nineteen. And in fact, when we looked at 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.760 our patients, we saw that when they came in for 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.640 routine and you will preventive visits, they had half the 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.160 prevalence of those risk factors. So I think this epidemic 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.480 has been really interesting and getting employers focused once again 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.160 on getting everybody in for prevention and getting health maintenance 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.520 finally to where it needs to be, namely for everybody. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.680 So then Dr Levy, how do we do that? I mean, 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:05.680 is going to come down to smart, candidly cost conscious, 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:10.680 but also health conscious and employee conscious employers forcing the 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.640 system to change because the system seems doesn't seem to 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.840 have the right economic incentives in place. I dare say, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.360 right now to achieve what you're talking about, right, I 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.720 mean now healthcare purchasing. Purchasing is all about the immediate, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.080 immediate return of investment and the reduction of healthcare claims. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.840 That's a very short sighted approach. Those employers who are 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.880 interested in the retention of talent and optimal productivity, those 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.520 are the employers and frankly, who are our customers who say, wait, 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.080 a minute. We need to look at the entire balance 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.000 sheet of good health, not just on healthcare claims, but 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:48.360 on productivity, on retention, engagement, reduction, and short term disability, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.680 long term disability, and all of those things. And that's 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.320 where the rewards are very, very big. But you're absolutely right, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.600 it is very difficult to convince folks who are buying 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.920 healthcare in the moment to have a longer view because 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.440 it's really, you know, a year to year kind of 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.400 a view on you know, what's my healthcare going to cost, 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.720 as opposed to the long view on really what's optimal healthcare? 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.080 Looked like an optimal productivity alright, So one thing you 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.480 could change right now or get you know, corporate programs 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.040 or corporations to change in terms of how they think 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.160 about health care for their employees. That would be more 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.920 about preventive rather than oh my god, crisis, we've got 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.400 to do something. Um what would you do? Well? Now 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.000 is no better a time because you know, I use 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.080 this expression COVID compresses time. So today, somebody for diabetes, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.520 you don't you know, you may have had let's let's 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:38.200 say last year with diabetes, you may have had ten 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.160 or twenty years to worry about if they were going 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.840 to die of the complications of diabetes. Well, with COVID around, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.760 they could die tomorrow. And so now is now is 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.680 the absolute perfect time to get involved in prevention because 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:53.680 it's not even an investment for the next ten or 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.000 twenty years. It's an investment for today because with this 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.679 pandemic and with all of these people pretend exposed to 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.679 something that could kill them tomorrow with one of these 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.000 lifestyle illnesses, invest right now, no better time, that's my 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.640 point of view. All right, well, here's hoping. I mean, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.400 I think I think you've sold us Dr David Levy, 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.720 and I certainly believe in the preventive medicine. And listen, 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.680 I think more and more companies are thinking about this, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.640 and we talk about COVID really being the great accelerant 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.679 uh and I really liked your phraseology there that COVID 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.920 compresses time. We certainly have felt that in many ways, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.960 and it feels like it is reimagining, forcing us to 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.959 reimagine Carol a lot of different industries. Dr David Levy 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.040 is the CEO of E H E Health. He joined 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.439 us on the phone from New York City. Great context. 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.200 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.240 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio, two of our faves on the 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.160 line now, and this is a story. It's timely, it's 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.079 well reported, so many things that we always ascribed to 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.360 both Business Week and to this reporter, Shawn don and 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.160 senior trade and globalization reporter for Bloomberg. He joins us 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:04.880 from Maryland, and his story is a fantastic preview, a 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.320 different sort of preview of what we're going to see 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.280 tonight because it takes us right to the site of 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.520 the debate. Sean is with us along with Joel Weber, 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.600 the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. So Joel, this is 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.319 a piece that you can find online and on the 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.760 Bloomberg terminal. Tee it up for us. So Sean has 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.000 spent um a fair amount of time going to places 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.120 um that I think are are really important, um in 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.880 part for the election, but also in part of the 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.480 bigger story that is sort of upon America right now. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:43.000 And Cleveland has actually figured into that reporting a lot. 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.679 This is sort of part two of a Cleveland series 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.199 that he's been working on, and it's specifically about the 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:55.079 Cleveland Clinic, which is sort of a renowned medical center. Um. 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.440 But what's actually been interesting, and this kind of gets 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.000 right to the heart of of Sean's story, is as 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.800 the clinic has thrived, basically the black neighbors and the 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.480 black neighborhood that surrounds the Cleveland Clinic has actually seen 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.720 its health deteriora. Seohn picking up from there, what what 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.800 did you discover during your reporting? Yeah, so, I mean 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.000 the Cleveland Clinic is this world leading health institution. If 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.480 you are going to get a higher bypass operation, this 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.320 is probably where you want to go. It's the place 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.480 where they really perfected it in the nineteen sixties and 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.960 they've built it a whole fortune, a real thriving business 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.240 on the back of this. The Cleveland Clinic last year 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.120 had ten point five billion dollars in revenues. It's going 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.000 to open a new hospital in London later this year. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.199 It's also in the Middle East. It's opening a new 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.040 hospital in China in in the next couple of years. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.360 It's become this world renowned institution, and it's also become 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.920 a great example of what people talk about when they 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.560 talk about the EDS and MEDS economic development model for cities. 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.000 You know, after manufacturing left a lot of cities like 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.160 like like Cleveland. People were looking at alternatives and and 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.200 they look to education, and they look to the health 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.400 care sector. And we've seen institutions like the Cleveland Clinic 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.080 thrive in recent decades. The problem is that you go 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:20.880 to Cleveland, you step out beyond the main campus. There's 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.280 a hundred and sixty five acres in the middle of Cleveland, uh, 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.839 and you walk not even a couple of blocks. You 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.160 walk a block, and what you discover is you are 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.160 in neighborhoods that have some of the highest poverty rates 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.840 in the nation, and where a kid who's born today 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.640 is gonna it has a life expectancy that's twenty years 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.160 less than a kid who is who's born a fifteen 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.840 minute drive away. And that really, right now, in the 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:52.599 middle of an economic crisis, illustrates this kind of American 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.480 paradox that we have in terms of inequality. You can 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.400 have world beating institutions like the Cleveland Clinic, and right 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.920 next door you can have black neighborhoods that are just 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.680 really just being left behind. There's no other way to 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.560 describe it, all right, So describe to us, though, what 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.120 the CEO of the Cleveland Clinic told you, I mean, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.199 I gotta read the quote. Cleveland is that our name, 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.600 he says, But we cannot thrive as an organization unless 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.560 the communities in which we reside thrive with us. So 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.400 there they see at front and center. How are they 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.960 dealing with it? What are they doing doing to change 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.920 this conversation? Right? So that CEO Tom Halovich is a 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.720 Croatian born heart surgeon who took over as the CEO 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.960 of the clinic in and he says he has made 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.920 raising up the neighborhoods around the Cleveland Clinic one of 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.440 the one of his priorities. And he's recognizing tacitly by 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.320 doing that that they haven't done enough in the past 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.880 to do that. And so they're starting, and we should 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.240 say they're starting slowly to to invest in different things, 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.800 whether it's adding to their work in community health centers. 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.120 And there's a big project that's about to get launched 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.960 right next door to the Cleveland Clinic. It's a project 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.040 called Innovation Square. It's being run by Community Development Corporation there. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.880 It's gonna cost about three hundred million dollars over the 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:20.040 next five years to really redeveloped a neighborhood and bring 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.360 back grocery stores because we're talking about food deserts right 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.400 right around the clinic there. Bring back new, hot, new 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.320 housing there. And the Cleveland Clinic says it's going to 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.640 get involved in that project. We don't know how much, 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.640 but we need to put that all in perspective at 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.320 the same time. So we're getting this kind of good 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.960 will from the Cleveland Clinic, but there's this three million 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.640 dollar project next door, and you put that in the 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.080 context of of the business that is the Cleveland Clinic. 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.880 Over the next five years, if they keep going the 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.240 way they've been going, they're gonna make something like fifty 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:57.080 billion dollars in revenues. That entire three million dollar project 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.400 is zero point six percent of revenues. They're also sitting 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.760 on one point five billion dollars cash in hand at 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.920 the end of June, which means that they could effectively 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.280 just write a check for this entire project, and and 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.000 and they're not. So it's a complicated story. It's it's 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:18.440 it's it's tough because the institution is recognized as the problem. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.360 It clearly is trying to do something, but there's big 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:26.440 questions about whether they're doing enough. So Sean synthesize this 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.680 with some of the other work you've been doing, because 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.400 there is a political undercurrent to all of this. You 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:37.320 are describing one of the key economic questions of this 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.480 entire presidential race in this election here in many ways, 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.400 all these things that have been laid bare by not 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:50.320 just the coronavirus crisis, but this overdue reckoning with race 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.280 and inequality in America. How does this fit in with 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.280 some of the other things you've seen as you've been 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:01.680 doing reporting about some similar places that illustrate inequity in 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.440 this country. Yeah, well, look, I mean, we we know 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.119 that President Trump was writing at what he considered a 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.560 healthy economy into uh into this election year, and that 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.919 the pandemic upended all that. But what the pandemic really 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.600 did was it shown a spotlight on these real structural 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.440 inequalities in the American economy right now. And the real 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.560 risk that we have right now coming out of this 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.639 economic crisis is that these things are only going to 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.600 get worse, that they're not going to get better. I've 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.480 got some more reporting coming that will that will that 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.840 will look at the housing market in Cleveland, which is 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.840 really interesting. Uh, But the reality is we are and 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.600 we sometimes forget it because a lot of us are 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.920 sitting at home and we're spending time with the kids 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.119 and we're learning how to bake bread. But there's a 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.440 lot of people out there who are really being damaged 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.280 in this economy, and and and and who are hurting 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.680 in this economy. And in some cases those are people 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.359 who were hurting beforehand, but we kind of tended to 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.040 have forgotten about. Yeah. Well, it is a phenomenal piece 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.520 of reporting. As always, Sean Donn and your body of work, 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.360 I feel like has been at the core of all 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.800 of these issues that we're wrestling with and we have 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:15.600 to keep wrestling with. So thank you for bringing this 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.119 story to Sean Donna, senior Trade and globalization reporter for Bloomberg. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:20.960 He joined us on the phone from Maryland. Check out 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.000 his story. It's online and on the Bloomberg terminal. Say 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.560 our things as well. To Joel Webber, the editor of 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.560 Bloomberg Business Week, I'm gonna think about the Cleveland clinic 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.120 different way when I'm watching the debate tonight. You're listening 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.000 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:41.240 on Bloomberg Radio. All right, for this edition of Business 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.639 Week Economics, let's check in with Ali Wolfe, chief economist 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.080 at Myer's Research, joining us on the phone from Irvine, California. Ali, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.480 really good to have you back with us. Hi, Jason 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.960 and Carroll keep having me all right, so can we 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.119 make sense of the economy and like, you know, like 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.520 six seven men, it's here with you because no pressure. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.840 But it's kind of a mess. We're trying to find 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.439 the right data. We're dealing with the potential second wave 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.800 and a presidential election that's throwing all sorts of headlines 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.960 at us. What do the data tell us? So I 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.560 love that you said we're trying to find the right 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.080 data because if you you right saw this morning consumer 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.560 confidence trends came out and August last month, when we 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.439 were talking to clients, we said, hey, you know, just 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.560 watch out because consumer confidence is at the lowest level 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.679 since the pandemic started, lower than March and April. We 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.679 were like, what are consumers telling us? And then today, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.600 of course September came out the highest level since the 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.520 pandemic hit. So I think right now consumers are going 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.520 through the same whiplash. As industry analysts, it depends on 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.600 the day, the data, the trend, and you get a 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.080 completely different story of where the economy is. So how important, though, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.640 is all of that consumer's sentiment ultimately on additional stimulus 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.320 we get from the pandemic, especially if we continue to 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.560 see the economy having to remain in some kind of 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.719 lockdown state, if we start to see more waves um 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:13.159 talk to us a little bit about that and how 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.680 much of this also is dependent on the job's environment 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.359 and whether or not we see people going back to 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.080 work or continuing to go back to work. Yeah, And 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.720 I think that's been one of the surprising things is 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.399 as we do look at the data, the economy is 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.240 holding up. I know that there's a lot of talk 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.200 that it's losing momentum, but it is holding up all 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.720 things considered. We're still in the middle of a pandemic, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.960 and as Dave Paul said at his press conference, we're 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.400 learning to live with the virus. And as I talked 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.159 to some of my co workers across the country, they say, life, 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.640 depending on where you live and depending on how you're 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.520 thinking about the virus, looks pretty normal. But the concern 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.240 at this point is that the easy gains have been made, 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.479 as you mentioned with the jobs. Yeah, we're still adding jobs, 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.879 but we're eleven point five million people shy of February 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.320 the labor force, and that doesn't account for the three 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.760 point seven million people that have just ultimately left the 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.760 labor force since February. And that's one of the biggest 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.800 things because a lot of people are stepping out for 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.840 childcare reasons. So let's talk about something that we have 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.040 talked a lot about on this program, and I'm dying 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:21.720 to get your take on it, Alley, which is the 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.280 K shaped recovery. It when you said, uh, something a 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.400 minute ago about sort of depends on who you are, 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.080 where you live, what your job is. That calls to 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.879 mind this idea of the K shaped recovery. Give me 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.880 your reaction to that notion and that description of this 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:41.240 recovery that we're in, whatever it may look like. The 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.160 K shape is the reason we do not have another 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.359 stimulus deal because if you look at the stock market 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.480 and you look at the unstoppable housing market, there are 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.600 parts of the economy that why do you need to 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.080 give them additional money? And I think a lot of economists, 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.120 myself included said, oh gosh, watch for the end of July, 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.800 we're going to really see the economy tanks and it's 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.960