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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back George, Nori with you, Sime and hinback

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Speaker 2: with us. He's got a PhD, noted author and researcher,

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Speaker 2: best known for his work exploring the intersection of frontiers

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Speaker 2: of science, consciousness, studies, anomalist phenomena. He has earned his

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Speaker 2: doctorate in sociology from Washington State University, where he focused

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Speaker 2: on statistics, research methods and social tia change. Sime and

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Speaker 2: welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Have you been hey, George, Thanks for having me here tonight. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm doing really well.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for asking.

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Speaker 2: Super looking forward to this. You're looking forward to the holidays?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely absolutely.

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Speaker 2: How did you get involved from being an expert in

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Speaker 2: statistics to crop formations, UFOs and strange things?

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Speaker 4: George.

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Speaker 3: It's a good question, and it's actually something I think

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Speaker 3: about once in a while. How did it go from

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Speaker 3: being a statistics teacher to these very interesting and anomalist subjects.

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Speaker 3: It really had to do with discovering something called fractal

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Speaker 3: geometry and chaos theory in graduate school. I always felt

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Speaker 3: that these statistics methods that I was teaching to undergrads

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Speaker 3: were kind of artificially limited by the assumptions that are

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Speaker 3: built into statistical models, you know about linearity and causality

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Speaker 3: and all that. And when I saw fractal geometry and

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Speaker 3: other grad student introduced me to that that's the study

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Speaker 3: of irregular natural shaped objects like trees and clouds and

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Speaker 3: even radio signals and things like this, objects that are

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Speaker 3: self similar. It just showed me that nature has a

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Speaker 3: different sort of logic than the type of logic that

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Speaker 3: we impose on it. And that led me to the

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Speaker 3: idea that maybe they're phenomena that we're not studying. And

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Speaker 3: this is before I got involved with these with these subjects.

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Speaker 3: It just led me to the idea, there's something we

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Speaker 3: might be missing. So when I came acro these topics,

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Speaker 3: I thought these could be the missing subjects that science

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Speaker 3: isn't actually looking at.

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Speaker 2: You've got at least four books out right now on

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Speaker 2: these topics, don't you, Yes.

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 3: And I'm really pleased that I finally came out with

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Speaker 3: an audio version of my first book, Opening Minds, about

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Speaker 3: RV and crop circles. That back when I wrote it

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and two, there were no downloadable ebooks

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Speaker 3: at least not in the forum they are now, I

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Speaker 3: mean audiobooks. So I just a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 3: I finished turning that into a self narrated audiobook which

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Speaker 3: is now up on Audible.

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Speaker 2: Yep, what have you concluded about crop circles? Simeon?

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Speaker 3: Crop circles were one of the most interesting discoveries in

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Speaker 3: looking at all these subjects because I went over to

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Speaker 3: the UK initially in nineteen ninety seven. I met someone

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Speaker 3: who was giving crop circle tour as a guy named

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Speaker 3: Ron Russell from the Denver area, and I went over

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Speaker 3: there with an open mind. I had gotten interested in

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Speaker 3: the idea of crop circles from remote viewing. It was

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Speaker 3: an RV target that I had done, and I know,

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Speaker 3: coming out of graduate school, I didn't even know what

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Speaker 3: the word crop circles was. So once I did this

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Speaker 3: RV target, I just wanted to get some feedback on it.

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Speaker 4: I went over with Ron on.

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Speaker 3: His tour and I could see within a couple of

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Speaker 3: days that there were very strange electromagnetic effects.

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Speaker 4: Around these crop circles.

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Speaker 3: We would go into them and it would cause strange

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Speaker 3: effects on your cameras, batteries, electronics and so forth. You

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Speaker 3: would talk to people they had experienced this to even

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Speaker 3: professional film crews.

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Speaker 4: Like BBC National Geographic experienced this.

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Speaker 3: So that really showed me that there was something to

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Speaker 3: the symmetry and the mathematical precision of some of the

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Speaker 3: crop circles that created very it's hard to explain electromagnetic effects.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, the listeners can see that on

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Speaker 3: the link that that Le's put up in the biosection.

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Speaker 3: There they can go and look at some of the

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Speaker 3: weird things that I've recorded in crop circles, you know,

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Speaker 3: of other people's cameras and batteries and things failing.

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Speaker 2: Did their crop circles start in Britain?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's where we It's a good question, George,

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Speaker 3: we associated with Britain.

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Speaker 4: If you look at that book by.

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Speaker 3: Colin Wilson, The Secret History of Crop Circles, you know,

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Speaker 3: he goes back to the ancient accounts of crop circles,

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Speaker 3: their accounts in biblical stories of strange markings in the fields,

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Speaker 3: you know, which we think may have referred to crop circles.

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Speaker 3: So they have appeared in different places over this the millennia.

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Speaker 4: Actually, it's just.

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Speaker 3: In modern times they were sort of rediscovered.

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Speaker 4: It seems in the.

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Speaker 2: UK in a big way too, right and in a

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Speaker 2: big way.

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Speaker 3: And the thing is, these accounts of crop circles, you know,

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Speaker 3: there are different sources of them, and they have been

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Speaker 3: seen around UFOs for decades and decades, and they've also

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Speaker 3: been seen around mysterious lights orbs ball lightning and so forth,

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Speaker 3: strange weather patterns, and then more recently, at least in

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Speaker 3: my view, in the eighties and nineties, people got involved

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Speaker 3: and started making their own sort of patterns to kind

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Speaker 3: of duplicate what they were seeing out there. But in

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Speaker 3: our experience going back there, and I kept going back

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Speaker 3: year after year, first with Ron and then I started

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Speaker 3: giving my own tours over there, is that even the

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Speaker 3: men made ones recreated some of these strange effects. We

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Speaker 3: eventually started paying farmers to use their fields to make

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Speaker 3: experimental circles, which we would say were experimental. We would

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Speaker 3: tell everyone we were making these, and we still found

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Speaker 3: that our photos turned out blurry, devices stopped working and

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Speaker 3: so forth. So there's definitely something about the electrostatic charge

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Speaker 3: in vortex type shapes in fields that seems to play

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Speaker 3: really in a kind of a nasty way with modern electronics.

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Speaker 3: It seems to short it out in some way, like

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Speaker 3: create another sort of space time field where the ordinary

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Speaker 3: principles of electronics, which, by the way, George, I was

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Speaker 3: familiar with, having built as a kid, you know, building

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Speaker 3: radio shack and heath kids, right, Yeah, I was familiar

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Speaker 3: with electronics just from assembling kids like that.

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Speaker 4: I knew that normally you wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: See things shorting out like that, batteries discharging instantly. So

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Speaker 3: there was something about crop circles that seemed like what

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Speaker 3: some people call a conditioned space where the ordinary rules

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Speaker 3: of electricity and magnetism and even time it didn't seem

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Speaker 3: to play out the same way as in ordinary spaces,

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Speaker 3: just even in the surrounding field.

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Speaker 2: Did people feel strange in the middle of crop formations?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question. They really do have a

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Speaker 3: certain flavor to them that you can feel. It's a

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Speaker 3: certain it's like a resonance. And some of them make

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Speaker 3: you feel kind of really upbeat and giddy and playful,

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Speaker 3: and others that you go into.

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Speaker 4: Kind of like our downers.

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Speaker 3: You know, they just make you feel a little strange,

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Speaker 3: and you don't stay very long in those ones. So

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Speaker 3: I would imagine that something about those patterns has an

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Speaker 3: energetic effect on us that we really don't understand yet,

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Speaker 3: But you can just sort of intuitively sense that some

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Speaker 3: of them are really fun to be in and you

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Speaker 3: stay there for a long time. George, you can even

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Speaker 3: see this when people bring their pets into crop circles.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes you'll just see like the dogs like running and

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Speaker 3: running around the circle in a certain direction. So it

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Speaker 3: even seems like the dogs can feel that too in

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Speaker 3: some of them.

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Speaker 2: Are we still getting crop formations around the world.

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Speaker 3: There in my experience that are not as many as

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Speaker 3: there were before. Certainly when I got involved in the

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Speaker 3: late nineties, they had already been going on for a while,

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Speaker 3: And when I was over in the UK a lot

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Speaker 3: in that time period during the nineties and in the

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Speaker 3: next decade and going forward, they would be clustered around

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Speaker 3: the Whilchair area.

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Speaker 4: I think there.

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Speaker 3: May be some of them around, but they seem to

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Speaker 3: have spread out so they weren't as quite as easy

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Speaker 3: to find as they were, at least for me in

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Speaker 3: the earlier days.

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Speaker 2: In your opinions, Shamian, what do you think they're for.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure that they're have a function or purpose.

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Speaker 3: The way we think about it, But they do seem

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Speaker 3: to make us think about natural landscapes, patterns, shapes, how

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Speaker 3: you know, they occur in agricultural fields, which we create,

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Speaker 3: which humans create, So they make you think about the

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Speaker 3: whole technological structure and if there's some sort of underlying

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Speaker 3: intelligence that we're sort of going over with our evenly

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Speaker 3: planted you know, wheat stocks, with those seed planters that

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Speaker 3: plant them in a very regular way, and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden you've got this pattern there, whether it occurs

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Speaker 3: naturally or whether people have made it that seems to

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Speaker 3: release some sort of energy. It's almost, George, as if

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Speaker 3: there's some sort of latent process going on that you

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Speaker 3: don't see until the pattern's there. So it just reminds

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Speaker 3: you that nature has its own sort of inherent intelligence

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Speaker 3: that we may not be looking at all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the several years ago you wrote a book

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Speaker 2: called dark Matter, Monsters, Cryptids, Ball Lightning, and the Science

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Speaker 2: of Secret life Forms.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, George, one of the biggest shocks to me.

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Speaker 3: I was teaching, you know, since the nineties, I was

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Speaker 3: teaching remote viewing in Boulder, Colorado, and a number of

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Speaker 3: my students over the years told me about their Bigfoot

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Speaker 3: encounters in the Rockies, in the foothills and in that

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Speaker 3: area got me interested in it, and I started to

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Speaker 3: go in conferences and so forth. One of the biggest

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Speaker 3: surprises to meet George was finding out that there was

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Speaker 3: a crop circle Bigfoot connection, just in the sense that

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Speaker 3: people who had been around Bigfoot also experienced the same

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Speaker 3: type of camera and battery failure and electronics failure and

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Speaker 3: failure to their automobiles that people had seen in and

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Speaker 3: around prop circles. You can see this in Dave Polaidi's

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Speaker 3: new movie American Sasquatch that just came out, or the

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Speaker 3: previous movie A Flash of Beauty Paranormal Bigfoot, where people

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Speaker 3: talk about these strange effects of these creatures encryptids on

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Speaker 3: their cameras. So for me, that was just a connection

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Speaker 3: right there, is there has to be some sort of

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Speaker 3: similarity between these phenomena if they're affecting our devices in

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Speaker 3: the same anomalous way, Is.

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Speaker 2: It that dramatic?

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Speaker 4: Simeon, It is that dramatic.

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Speaker 3: I when I've talked to people who've had these Bigfoot encounters,

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Speaker 3: they not only would they say they felt this sort

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Speaker 3: of mental confusion, like they didn't even know where they

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Speaker 3: were anymore. They couldn't even find their cars. They would

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Speaker 3: tell me that their iPhones or whatever camera they were

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Speaker 3: using drained instantly. And that's exactly what we saw in

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Speaker 3: the crop circles. So there must be and get I

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Speaker 3: could be wrong about this, People could have other explanations,

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Speaker 3: but there must be some sort of similar alternative type

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Speaker 3: of MAXWELLI and electromagnetics going on there to make batteries

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Speaker 3: and electronics just kind of short out like that. And

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Speaker 3: again you can go to this playlist lex put up.

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Speaker 3: You can see how quickly this affects people's cameras. If

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Speaker 3: don't take my word for it, you can watch these

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Speaker 3: videos on my YouTube playlist of crop circle weirdness to

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Speaker 3: see it for yourself and people who've been around Bigfoot, George.

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Speaker 3: And you can see it in the two movies that

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Speaker 3: I just mentioned say the same thing happens. Plus you

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Speaker 3: also get the orbs, the balls of light, the sort

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Speaker 3: of space time distortion.

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Speaker 4: So they're in my.

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Speaker 3: View, George, a lot of what we call power normal

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Speaker 3: phenomena might have the same sort of underlying structure underneath

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Speaker 3: it if we get to understand it a little bit.

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Speaker 2: So mean, do these effects eventually wear off and go away,

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Speaker 2: or do they still stay out there?

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Speaker 4: Now, that's a good question.

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Speaker 3: Often I talk to people who had had that camera

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Speaker 3: failure in some of these crop circles in the UK,

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Speaker 3: and I wanted to follow up with them about exactly

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Speaker 3: what you're saying. Did their cameras recover for some people?

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Speaker 3: And I remember seeing this in my own cameras and batteries.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes they would come back to life like a day

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Speaker 3: or two later. But I spoke to people that said

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Speaker 3: that it might take a couple months of leaving the

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Speaker 3: camera in a drawer or something or their phone and

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Speaker 3: then it started working again properly. And you get that

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Speaker 3: same sort of response not only around Bigfoot of cryptids,

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Speaker 3: but ghosts, haunted sites right UFOs, extraterrestrial types of contact again,

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Speaker 3: which leads me to think that we're dealing with a

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Speaker 3: sort of similar type of electromagnetic effects where the laws

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Speaker 3: in that the laws of electromagnetics in that particular area

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Speaker 3: are just so radically different than what we're used to.

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Speaker 3: The permittivity, permeability of space of the magnetic and electric

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Speaker 3: constants could have changed that it takes a while for

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Speaker 3: those devices again to adjust to the usual conditions that

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Speaker 3: they're created in.

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Speaker 2: Does anything happened to the people who go in these

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Speaker 2: circles health wise, either but positive or negative?

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Speaker 4: George.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of cases I remember these, especially

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Speaker 3: from the nineties, where people felt that they had been

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Speaker 3: healed by going into crop circles. They felt that they

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Speaker 3: had an illness when they went in, and they felt

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Speaker 3: that it made them better after having been in the circle.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't validate that, you know myself. Actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm not a doctor or anything, so I

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Speaker 3: can't medically say what happened. But that's what people report

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Speaker 3: having happened to them. And occasionally you would go in

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Speaker 3: some that made you feel a little ill for a

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Speaker 3: little while. But you know, on the bigger way of

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Speaker 3: looking at it, George, it affects people in terms of

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Speaker 3: how they see reality. I mean myself included. You start

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Speaker 3: questioning things that you might not have questioned before, and

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Speaker 3: looking into math and shapes and geometry and how that

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Speaker 3: fits into landscapes and so forth. So it can kind

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Speaker 3: of have a lasting effect on your mental you know,

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Speaker 3: your outlook on reality. You're like, you're basic your paradigm

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Speaker 3: that you kind of are looking at things.

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Speaker 2: From by being in a crop formation. Does anything happen

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Speaker 2: in terms of time with people? Do they seem like

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Speaker 2: they're in another parallel dimension or anything like that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wrote about that in Dark Matter Monsters. I

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Speaker 3: wrote about a case. This actually was from Ron Russell.

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Speaker 3: He had an experience where he was in a circle

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Speaker 3: with a whole bunch of other folks in the Avebury

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Speaker 3: area in Wiltshire, Avebury village within that Avebury Stone Circle.

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Speaker 3: He went out to get some batteries in his car

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Speaker 3: and he felt like he had been gone for maybe

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Speaker 3: forty five minutes. He also encountered people speaking an older

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Speaker 3: type of English dressed in a different type of garb. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: when he got back, the people in the group said

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Speaker 3: he had only been gone for five minutes, but he

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Speaker 3: felt like he had had a weird sort of what

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Speaker 3: we call a time shift. So it does seem associated

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Speaker 3: with those same sort of time shifts that people have

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Speaker 3: around UFO, sometimes around Bigfoot and other cryptids, again making

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Speaker 3: you think that there's some sort of commonality between those phenomena.

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Speaker 3: But one more thing, George, just to mention about that

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Speaker 3: the effects of these phenomena can vary a lot. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: on places like Skinwalker Ranch and other places people have

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Speaker 3: encountered orbs and phenomena like that that seem to sometimes

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Speaker 3: have a negative health effect. So it seems that there

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Speaker 3: can be both positive and negative effects. I don't think

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Speaker 3: we completely understand why that would happen, but there seems

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Speaker 3: to be a real range of effects. But I would

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Speaker 3: say mostly around the crop circles, mostly a positive effect.

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Speaker 2: Well, do you find that the longer somebody is in

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Speaker 2: a formation a crop circle, the more these strange things happen.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: What it seems to do is open up your perception

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Speaker 3: to the possibility that these things can happen. And as

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Speaker 3: you know, George, that's a big part of it is

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Speaker 3: our sort of outlook and like for someone like myself,

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Speaker 3: I go and I'm just out of graduate school. I

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Speaker 3: don't know very much about any of these subjects. The

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Speaker 3: more you encounter people that have had these strange experiences

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Speaker 3: in cropsals like these time shifts and experiencing orbs or

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Speaker 3: small UFO UAP type objects that are sometimes seen around

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Speaker 3: the crops, or the more you talk to people like that,

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Speaker 3: the more you are open to the possibility that this

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Speaker 3: could be real, and you start looking for it yourself.

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Speaker 3: So there's this sort of gradual mind expanding effect which

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Speaker 3: I think allows you eventually to experience more rather than

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Speaker 3: just pushing it away and just as soon as things

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Speaker 3: feel a little different immediately wanting to turn the whole

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Speaker 3: experience off. You're kind of accept the fact that you're

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Speaker 3: just in an area of you know, what you would

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Speaker 3: call strangeness for lack of a better word, and you're

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Speaker 3: sort of looking for symptoms of that now rather than

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Speaker 3: just kind of explaining it in the nuts and bolts way.

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Speaker 2: How long does the wheat through the corner whatever was

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the circle bounce back to its

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Speaker 2: original shape?

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Speaker 4: It does, Actually the wheat if people didn't walk.

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Speaker 3: In it, the wheat as we saw it would eventually

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Speaker 3: go back to its ordinary standing position. But as you know,

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Speaker 3: people walk in it, so it kind of keeps it

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Speaker 3: down and then it sort of gets ground into the soil.

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Speaker 3: There are these ghost circles that pop up because people

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Speaker 3: walk in the circles. It pushes the seedheads into the soil,

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Speaker 3: and then the next season you sometimes in.

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Speaker 4: Some areas you get sort of this fan.

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Speaker 3: Emptum crop circle shape appearing just for where people walked

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Speaker 3: on the seed.

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