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Speaker 1: dot com. On January eighteenth, nineteen o two, in the
Speaker 1: Indian town of Matara, ninety miles southeast of Delhi, a
Speaker 1: young couple, Yagti and chatterbudg Bay, celebrate the birth of
Speaker 1: a baby girl. Ten years later, the child, whom they
Speaker 1: named Lugdi, is given up for marriage to a local
Speaker 1: shopkeeper named Kedanat Choubey. After many years of marriage, Lugdi
Speaker 1: fell pregnant, but was devastated to learn only a week
Speaker 1: before she was due to give birth that the baby
Speaker 1: had died some years later. By then twenty three, Lugdi
Speaker 1: was overjoyed to discover she was pregnant once more, but
Speaker 1: again there were complications. Fearing for his wife and unborn child,
Speaker 1: Kedanad rushed them to the much better equipped hospital in
Speaker 1: the city of Agra, thirty miles away. It was there
Speaker 1: the next day, on September twenty fifth, nineteen twenty five,
Speaker 1: that Lugdi gave birth to a healthy baby boy named Nabanid.
Speaker 1: For Lugdi, however, the pregnancy had taken a hefty toll.
Speaker 1: She would not live to see the child she had
Speaker 1: brought into the world, dying nine days later on the
Speaker 1: morning of October fourth. Five years later and roughly six
Speaker 1: hundred miles to the south, in the coastal town of Dandy,
Speaker 1: a gentle looking man, modestly dressed in a pristine white
Speaker 1: doughty and shawl, reaches down into the wet mud at
Speaker 1: his feet, lifting a handful of it into the air.
Speaker 1: He turns to the fifty thousand strong crowd of men
Speaker 1: and women who have waited twenty six days for this
Speaker 1: very moment, and declared, with this, I am shaking the
Speaker 1: foundations of the British Empire. Next, the man filtered salt
Speaker 1: granules from the mud and placed them in a pot
Speaker 1: of boiling sea water. He watched with a smile as
Speaker 1: the water slowly began to evaporate, liberating the salt from
Speaker 1: its bonds, until with the water having all but vanished,
Speaker 1: the salt was all that remained at the bottom of
Speaker 1: the pan. The man was Mahandas Karamchant Gandhi, perhaps better
Speaker 1: known as Mahatma Gandhi. With this powerful, peaceful gesture, Gandhi,
Speaker 1: who had walked for twenty six days to get to
Speaker 1: the coast, had shone a light on a greedy and
Speaker 1: restrictive salt tax that had been imposed on the people
Speaker 1: of India by British colonial powers. As with all empires,
Speaker 1: there comes a time when the ruling powers are no
Speaker 1: longer able to reconcile the myth of their great nation
Speaker 1: with the truth of what it takes to sustain it.
Speaker 1: And so it would prove with Great Britons. With Gandhi's
Speaker 1: iconic Salt March proving an irresistible catalyst, opposition to British
Speaker 1: rule among both the local Indian population and the British
Speaker 1: public intensified, though at the time the empire's Viceroy, Lord
Speaker 1: Erwin quipped that Gandhi's Salt campaign would be unlikely to
Speaker 1: keep him up or night. Only seventeen years later, the
Speaker 1: Indian nation achieved independence. After the Salt March, Gandhi's position
Speaker 1: as a leading statesman and as the head of the
Speaker 1: Indian independence movement had been thoroughly secured. As such, his
Speaker 1: trust and judgment was often sought on a number of
Speaker 1: wide ranging events and incidences, provided they were of sufficient importance.
Speaker 1: None were quite as strange, perhaps as that which was
Speaker 1: presented to him in nineteen thirty five, regarding a peculiar
Speaker 1: case of a young girl who claimed to have already
Speaker 1: died ten years previously. You're listening to Unexplained, and I'm
Speaker 1: Richard McClane Smith. Born in December nineteen twenty six, Shanty
Speaker 1: Deevi rarely cried as a baby, despite living in the
Speaker 1: intense bustle of inner city Delhi. Having grown into a
Speaker 1: shy and quiet toddler, it was all the more surprising
Speaker 1: when the young girl became suddenly agitated afternoon. This wasn't
Speaker 1: her home, she complained to her perplexed mother. My house
Speaker 1: was much bigger, she said. Shanty's mother, naturally, assuming her
Speaker 1: daughter to be playing a game, did her best to
Speaker 1: ignore her strange proclamations. It was far harder, however, for
Speaker 1: her to ignore Shanty's insistence that she wasn't her mother
Speaker 1: at all. Her real mother lived in the city of Matra,
Speaker 1: over ninety miles away, as did her husband and sisters.
Speaker 1: For the next year, Shanty continued to talk about another life,
Speaker 1: claiming that her name was in fact Lukdi. One evening,
Speaker 1: at the dinner table, after her mother had dished out
Speaker 1: the food, Shanty screwed up her face and pushed her
Speaker 1: plate away. It isn't right to eat animals, she said,
Speaker 1: I won't do it. The now four year old, Shanty
Speaker 1: went on to explain that she and her husband only
Speaker 1: eight sat for food, a group of foods that pertained
Speaker 1: to the Hindu modes of existence, consisting only of meat free,
Speaker 1: energy enriching foods. Only Shanty's parents weren't Hindus, nor could
Speaker 1: they fathom how a four year old child could have
Speaker 1: learned such a thing. A few years later, with Shanty
Speaker 1: showing no sign of dropping the charade, she explained blankly
Speaker 1: one morning that she had died giving birth to a child,
Speaker 1: and that she wanted to see her husband again. But
Speaker 1: when Shanty's mother asked who he was, she would say
Speaker 1: only that when she knew him, he sold fabrics, and
Speaker 1: that he owned a shop near the Dua Kadis temple
Speaker 1: in Matra. Though Shanty's parents try to reassure themselves that
Speaker 1: their daughter's behavior is only a phase, it is hard
Speaker 1: not to be concerned. It is said in the Vedic Scriptures,
Speaker 1: the most sacred text of Hinduism, that any child who
Speaker 1: could remember a past life was destined to die young.
Speaker 1: Growing increasingly unsettled, Shanty's parents forbade her from talking any
Speaker 1: more about her past life, But Shanty never lost sight
Speaker 1: of her dream to return to her long lost family
Speaker 1: in Mattera. It was sometime in nineteen thirty five that
Speaker 1: Babu Bu Shan Chand first heard about Shanty's strange obsession.
Speaker 1: Chand was a teacher at Shanty's school in the Daria
Speaker 1: Ganj district of Delhi. Being a relative also, he couldn't
Speaker 1: help but being trigued after overhearing the now eight year
Speaker 1: old girl telling yet another friend how she needed to
Speaker 1: find a way to get to Mattera to visit her husband.
Speaker 1: Determined to see if Shanty was telling the truth, Chand
Speaker 1: demanded that she'd tell him the name of her husband.
Speaker 1: When she refused, Chand offered to take her to Mattera
Speaker 1: himself if she would only give him his name. The
Speaker 1: young girl hesitated, explaining that it would not be correct
Speaker 1: to speak his name, but finally relented. She gestured for
Speaker 1: Chand to bend down and whispered it into his ear.
Speaker 1: Cared a nat choube, but that wasn't all. She knew
Speaker 1: his address as well. Before rushing off to visit the man,
Speaker 1: Chand suggested they write him a letter first to see
Speaker 1: if he can help verify her claims. Together, they composed it,
Speaker 1: putting in everything that Shanty had said that she was
Speaker 1: once married to a man named Chaube who had owned
Speaker 1: a fabric shop near the Dua Kadish Temple i Matura.
Speaker 1: She added also that one of their homes was painted
Speaker 1: yellow and that she believed her name to be Lukdi.
Speaker 1: After posting the letter, Chand waited for almost two weeks
Speaker 1: before finally receiving a reply. I did have a wife
Speaker 1: who died named Lugdi, it said, and I have a
Speaker 1: shop very close to the Duwa Kadish temple and my
Speaker 1: name is Kennedat. Chaube in Matra. Kadanat had barely slept
Speaker 1: since first receiving Shanty's letter. Having sent his reply to Chand,
Speaker 1: he contacted a cousin, Pandit Kanjimau, who lived in Delhi,
Speaker 1: and asked him to visit Shanty and her parents on
Speaker 1: his behalf. A few days later, an astounded Pandit sat
Speaker 1: with the young girl and her parents as she detailed
Speaker 1: the layout and location of the house that lugd A
Speaker 1: use to live in with his cousin, also describing perfectly
Speaker 1: the streets close to it that she had walked many
Speaker 1: times before. When she asked about the health of her son,
Speaker 1: a stunned Pandite can only mutter that he is doing well.
Speaker 1: When Cadenat's cousin bids farewell to Shanty later that evening,
Speaker 1: it is with the absolute conviction that he had just
Speaker 1: spoken to Cadnat's deceased wife. The following day, he traveled
Speaker 1: to his cousin's home to deliver the incredible news. Are
Speaker 1: you always taking care of your family? Do you often
Speaker 1: take care of others and not yourself? Now it's time
Speaker 1: to take care of yourself, to make time for you.
Speaker 1: You deserve it. Tell adoc gives you access to a
Speaker 1: licensed therapist to help you get back to feeling your best,
Speaker 1: to feeling like yourself again. With teledoc, you can speak
Speaker 1: to a licensed therapist by phone or video. Therapy appointments
Speaker 1: are available seven days a week from seven a m.
Speaker 1: To nine p m. Local time. If you feel overwhelmed
Speaker 1: sometimes maybe you feel stressed or anxious, depressed or lonely,
Speaker 1: or you might be struggling with a personal or family issue,
Speaker 1: teledoc can help. Teledoc is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches,
Speaker 1: so they make it easy to change counselors if needed.
Speaker 1: For free, teledoc therapy is available through most insurance or employers.
Speaker 1: Download the app or visit teledoc dot com forward slash
Speaker 1: Unexplained podcast today to get started. That's t e la
Speaker 1: d oc dot com slash Unexplained podcast. It was only
Speaker 1: a few days later, on November twelfth, the Pandit returned
Speaker 1: to Shanty's home along with Kedanat and his new wife,
Speaker 1: as well as ten year old Nabanite, the son that
Speaker 1: Lugti had died after giving birth to. When they arrived,
Speaker 1: Shanty's mother, who was clearly troubled by the situation, was
Speaker 1: there to greet them at the door. She explained that
Speaker 1: Shanty had not yet returned from school, but invited them inside,
Speaker 1: none the less to sit and wait for her. When
Speaker 1: the young girl returned home half an hour later, it
Speaker 1: had been decided that they would try and catch her out,
Speaker 1: having been informed that more people had come to speak
Speaker 1: to her about her supposed past life. Shanty was led
Speaker 1: into the living room and introduced to a few of
Speaker 1: the guests, including Kdanad, who was introduced as an older
Speaker 1: brother of Lugdi's, but Shanty was confused. No, she said,
Speaker 1: that is my husband. Walking straight up to him, she
Speaker 1: bowed her head and stood by his side, as was
Speaker 1: customary for the time. Kdnat could only stare dumb struck,
Speaker 1: but the strangely confident little girl stood beside him. A
Speaker 1: moment later, Nabanite was shown into the room. At the
Speaker 1: sight of the young boy, Shanty's eyes widened and began
Speaker 1: to well up. She rushed towards him and hugged him tightly.
Speaker 1: My son, she cried, you are my son. Immediately, Shanty
Speaker 1: turned to her mother and asked her for all her
Speaker 1: toys to be brought for the young boy, but she
Speaker 1: refused as she tried to comprehend what exactly was happening
Speaker 1: before her. Shanty eventually gathered them up herself and offered
Speaker 1: them to the boy. Later, Shanty's parents watched their daughter
Speaker 1: leave the house with the chowbees, with the creeping sensation
Speaker 1: that maybe she hadn't been making everything up after all.
Speaker 1: That afternoon, having taken a trip round the city with
Speaker 1: Kedernat's family, it was said that Shanty held on to
Speaker 1: Nabanite's hand the entire time. That evening. The two families
Speaker 1: gathered again to talk, but something was ailing the young girl.
Speaker 1: She couldn't stop staring at the jewelry on the arm
Speaker 1: of Kehdanat's wife. It was as if she recognized it.
Speaker 1: You promised you would never marry again, she said, turning
Speaker 1: suddenly to Khednat. The man's eyes turned to the floor,
Speaker 1: sensing the awkward shift in the mood. Shanty's father asked
Speaker 1: his daughter to talk more about the house she had
Speaker 1: apparently lived in when she was lugdy. The young girl's
Speaker 1: eyes lit up as she recounted the place in great detail,
Speaker 1: including how she loved to bathe and relax the well
Speaker 1: located in the middle of a grand courtyard in the
Speaker 1: center of the property. Her apparent recollections drawing tears from
Speaker 1: Kedanat's eyes at the memories. It was late evening when
Speaker 1: the Choubey family left the house, though Shanty was inconsolable. Together,
Speaker 1: they promised to make arrangements to meet again. It wasn't
Speaker 1: long before Shanty's extraordinary story reached the media, and in turn,
Speaker 1: Mahatma Gandhi. It has been alleged that Gandhi's interest in
Speaker 1: the story stemmed as much from political motives as it
Speaker 1: did from personal interest, being as it was an apparent
Speaker 1: vindication of the Hindu belief system. Nevertheless, his involvement was
Speaker 1: hugely significant. Having now met Kedanat, Shanty had only grown
Speaker 1: more determined to visit her apparent former home in Mattera.
Speaker 1: But every reference to her past life as Lugdi was
Speaker 1: just one more break in the hearts of Shanty's parents,
Speaker 1: who feared their daughter might be lost forever if they
Speaker 1: agreed to let her go. It was Gandhi who finally
Speaker 1: convinced them to let whatever her destiny might be play out.
Speaker 1: Such was the faroor surrounding the story. Gandhi also organized
Speaker 1: for a committee of journalists and government ministers to accompany
Speaker 1: the young girl to Mattera to determine for themselves whether
Speaker 1: her claims were true or not. And so it was
Speaker 1: that on November twenty fourth, Shanty and her family boarded
Speaker 1: a train to Mattera, escorted by Gandhi's committee, which included
Speaker 1: among them, the respected Member of Parliament des Pandoux Gupta.
Speaker 1: That cool morning, as the train trundled through a green
Speaker 1: and dusty countryside and a warm, pink haze settled across
Speaker 1: the land, a quiet eight year old girl gazed absent
Speaker 1: mindedly out of the window, dreaming of a former life.
Speaker 1: Having arrived at matter of station. As the committee disembark,
Speaker 1: a crowd of thousands are there to greet them, all
Speaker 1: desperate to see the miracle child. As Shanty is led
Speaker 1: from the train, the crowd surges forward and a middle
Speaker 1: aged man steps into her path. Shanty stops. After taking
Speaker 1: a moment to look up at the man, she bows
Speaker 1: down and touches his feet. Before the man can say anything,
Speaker 1: Shanty is already back up Babu ram Chaube. She says hello.
Speaker 1: The man cracks the wide smile and turning back to
Speaker 1: the crowd them away to give the child and a
Speaker 1: committee room to get through. As they push on to
Speaker 1: the front of the station, one of the committee asks
Speaker 1: Shanty who the man is, to which she replies, he
Speaker 1: is my husband's brother. Outside, the girl is led into
Speaker 1: a tanger, a small horse and cart, where she is
Speaker 1: joined by Deschbandou Gupta and another committee member, with the
Speaker 1: others arranging to follow on behind. Much to Gupta's surprise, Shanty,
Speaker 1: who has never been to matter Of before, wastes no
Speaker 1: time in instructing the driver on where to go, telling
Speaker 1: him to look out for a yellow house. As they
Speaker 1: make their way through the streets, Shanty points out all
Speaker 1: the places she remembers and the ones that have changed
Speaker 1: since Lukedi's time, all of which the astonished driver confirms
Speaker 1: to be true. Turn into one street flanked by a large,
Speaker 1: colorful building fronted by a series of delicate arches, Shanty
Speaker 1: points out that to work at each temple, and on
Speaker 1: the other side of the street the shop where her
Speaker 1: husband worked. Reaching across roads a short time later, she
Speaker 1: asks the driver to pull over. But I don't understand,
Speaker 1: she says, as she steps down from the cart. It's
Speaker 1: supposed to be yellow. The committee members exchanged concerned glances
Speaker 1: as they followed the young girl across the road toward
Speaker 1: a decidedly white house. Though the color is wrong, the
Speaker 1: large crowd of people gathered outside suggests they have indeed
Speaker 1: come to the right place. Shanty points out two men
Speaker 1: standing by the entrance as her brother and the brother
Speaker 1: of her father in law, who both greet her warmly
Speaker 1: before leading her inside. Moving from room to room, Shanti
Speaker 1: amazes every one with her apparent recollection of how the
Speaker 1: house had been set up when Lugdi had lived there. However,
Speaker 1: one committee member is unconvinced. After all, wasn't the house
Speaker 1: supposed to be yellow, but it was explained one of
Speaker 1: the new residents, it had been painted over after Lugdi
Speaker 1: had died that afternoon. As the crowds continue to grow,
Speaker 1: the eighty year old girl from Delhi is hoisted on
Speaker 1: to the shoulders of one of the committee members before
Speaker 1: effortlessly guiding them all to the next property. It is
Speaker 1: the last place that Lugti had lived and Kedannat's current home.
Speaker 1: She is especially pleased to find him waiting there for
Speaker 1: her when she arrives. After being led inside once again,
Speaker 1: Shanty seems able to recall the layout of the house,
Speaker 1: but when she moved into the courtyard, something is wrong
Speaker 1: the well, says one of the committee members. You said
Speaker 1: there was a well here that you used to bathe beside,
Speaker 1: but there is not. Without uttering a word, Kedanad walks
Speaker 1: into the middle of the square and pulls up a
Speaker 1: large paving slab, inviting the committee members to have a
Speaker 1: look underneath. It was the well the family had paved
Speaker 1: over it only a few years ago. Later, having moved
Speaker 1: up to one of the bedrooms on the second floor,
Speaker 1: Shanty lets out a short gasp. I remember something, she exclaims,
Speaker 1: turning to the group. Under the floor, I hid a
Speaker 1: money box full of savings for a special occasion. Just there,
Speaker 1: she says, pointing to the floor. One of the group
Speaker 1: pushes at the spot and finds the floor board to
Speaker 1: be loose. He pulls it up and, to the amazement
Speaker 1: of all, reveals a small rusted tin nestled in the
Speaker 1: space below it. The tin was empty, however, The girl, disappointed,
Speaker 1: turns to Caedanad, who can only apologize he had found
Speaker 1: it some time after Lugdi had died and spent the
Speaker 1: money on himself. Satisfied they had seen enough for the day,
Speaker 1: Shanty made one more request that they visit the River Yamuna,
Speaker 1: where as Lugdi, she had apparently also enjoyed spending lots
Speaker 1: of her time. After a short ride to the river,
Speaker 1: Shanty's parents, who had endured so much already, watched with
Speaker 1: a strange uncertainty as their young daughter gazed out across
Speaker 1: the water. Suddenly she was running far along the bank
Speaker 1: toward a house in the distance. As the committee members
Speaker 1: tried desperately to keep up, they were relieved to see
Speaker 1: Shanty stopping outside another home, where a small crowd of
Speaker 1: people had gathered to meet her. It was Lugdi's parents house,
Speaker 1: and there standing at the front where Yagti and Chatterbuchbai
Speaker 1: looked these parents themselves. Shanty already had tears in her
Speaker 1: eyes as she approached the elderly couple. When her parents
Speaker 1: arrived moments later, Yagti invited them into the house. As
Speaker 1: the congregation of committee members and Lugdi's family sat and talked,
Speaker 1: the young girl's parents can only watch with increasing dread
Speaker 1: as their daughter, now sitting in Yagti's lap, continued to
Speaker 1: amaze everyone with her supposed collections of her life as Lugdi.
Speaker 1: But although Shanty seems elated to be with her old
Speaker 1: family again, she is equally struck by a deep melancholy.
Speaker 1: Turning to Lugdi's mother, she asks, why did he not
Speaker 1: keep bringing me flowers like you promised? Just like with Kedanad,
Speaker 1: Yaghti can only apologize, holding the girl tighter in her
Speaker 1: arms as she wipes their tears away. Then comes the
Speaker 1: moment that Shanty's mother had been most dreading. It was
Speaker 1: clear that a decision had to be made. Both Lugdi's
Speaker 1: family and the Chowbees were far more wealthy than Shanty's
Speaker 1: parents not to mention of a higher cast, and if
Speaker 1: it was true that this place really was her home,
Speaker 1: would it be wrong to deny her the opportunity to
Speaker 1: live here? Yaghti suggests the only fair thing to do
Speaker 1: is to ask Shanty herself what she wants. Shanty's mother
Speaker 1: reluctantly agrees, taking her daughter by the hand and trying
Speaker 1: not to cry as she asks her the devastating question.
Speaker 1: All in the room are silent as they watched the
Speaker 1: little girl think on her decision. Then, after a moment's pause,
Speaker 1: she turns to Ludi's parents, embraces them one after the other,
Speaker 1: and asks for forgiveness, telling them quietly through her tears
Speaker 1: that she had another family. Now, turning back to her parents,
Speaker 1: Shanty took them each by the hand and led them
Speaker 1: out of the house. That evening, Shanty Devi returned to
Speaker 1: Delhi with her mother and father, escorted by Gandhi's committee members.
Speaker 1: None were in any doubt that the child they had
Speaker 1: taken to Mattera was nothing less than the reincarnation of
Speaker 1: Luk Dubai, the young mother who had tragically died over
Speaker 1: a decade ago. In April the following year, a nine
Speaker 1: year old Shanty is taken back to Mattera by another group,
Speaker 1: this time led by prominent journalist Saint Nihal Singh and
Speaker 1: the psychologist doctor Indra Sen. Again, the girl's claims are
Speaker 1: put to the test, with varying degrees of success. Both
Speaker 1: men returned to Delhi convinced that her extraordinary claims were true.
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, doctor Sen arranged for Shanty to
Speaker 1: undergo a process of hypnotic regression, where she is alleged
Speaker 1: to have documented Lugdi Bai's journey from death to the
Speaker 1: moment of her rebirth before later the child Shanty Devi.
Speaker 1: Soon after this session, doctor Senn learned something else. Although
Speaker 1: it was true that Shanty had never been to Mattera,
Speaker 1: not only had Lugdi's husband, Cadnat Choubey, been to Delhi
Speaker 1: a number of times. One of the places he visited
Speaker 1: most frequently was a fabric shop directly opposite Shanty's family home,
Speaker 1: and he had done so since Shanty was only a baby.
Speaker 1: Either way, for the rest of her life, Shanty Devi,
Speaker 1: who had become a highly qualified teacher, never wavered in
Speaker 1: her belief that she had lived a previous life. She
Speaker 1: would eventually die at the age of sixty one in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven, having never married out of respect for
Speaker 1: her apparent former husband. If you enjoy listening to Unexplained
Speaker 1: and would like to help support us, you can now
Speaker 1: go to Unexplained Podcast dot com, Forward Slash Support. All donations,
Speaker 1: no matter how large or small, are massively appreciated. All
Speaker 1: elements of Unexplained are produced by me Bridge McClain smith.
Speaker 1: Please subscribe and rate the show on iTunes. Feel free
Speaker 1: to get in touch with any thoughts or ideas regarding
Speaker 1: the stories you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have
Speaker 1: an explanation of your own you'd like to share. You
Speaker 1: can reach us online at Unexplained podcast dot com or
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Unexplained Pod. Now. It's time to take
Speaker 1: care of yourself. To make time for you, Tell a
Speaker 1: Doc gives you access to a licensed therapist to help
Speaker 1: you get back to feeling your best. Speak to a
Speaker 1: licensed therapist by phone or video anytime between seven am
Speaker 1: to nine pm local time, seven days a week. Teledoc
Speaker 1: Therapy is available through most insurance or employers. Download the
Speaker 1: app or visit teledoc dot com, Forward Slash Unexplained Podcast
Speaker 1: Today to get started. That's T. E. Ladoc dot com
Speaker 1: Slash Unexplained podcast