WEBVTT - Solving puzzles, with A.J. Jacobs

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,

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<v Speaker 1>This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's

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<v Speaker 1>episode will be a slightly longer one part of the

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<v Speaker 1>series where I interview fascinating people about how they take

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<v Speaker 1>their days from great to awesome and any advice they

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<v Speaker 1>have for the rest of us. So today, I am

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<v Speaker 1>delighted to welcome Aj Jacobs to Before Breakfast. AJ is

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<v Speaker 1>the author of several books such as the Year of

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<v Speaker 1>Living Constitutionally, The Year of Living Biblically, and The Puzzler.

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<v Speaker 1>He is the host of the podcast Hello Puzzlers. So Aj,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I'm so thrilled to be here. I am

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<v Speaker 2>a fan and you have made my life better with

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<v Speaker 2>so many of your tips. So I'm hoping that I

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<v Speaker 2>can repay by giving some helpful feedback on your show.

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<v Speaker 1>I am sure you will. Did you tell our listeners

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about yourself?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? I am a writer. I mostly do nonfiction writing.

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<v Speaker 2>I've written several books where I try to take on

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<v Speaker 2>a weird, admittedly an odd lifestyle for a year and

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<v Speaker 2>then write about the lessons I've learned. So I spent

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<v Speaker 2>a year trying to live by all the rules of

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<v Speaker 2>the Bible that included the Ten Commandments, but also growing

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<v Speaker 2>a huge beard so people would cross the street to

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<v Speaker 2>avoid me. I tried to be the healthiest person alive.

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote a book about gratitude where I thank a

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<v Speaker 2>thousand people who had anything to do with my morning

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<v Speaker 2>cup of coffee, which is very relevant to this show,

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<v Speaker 2>and try to become as grateful as I could. So

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<v Speaker 2>those are the types of books and articles I write.

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<v Speaker 1>And now you're doing a podcast about puzzles, so I

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<v Speaker 1>would love to hear about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Why puzzles, Yes, I do. I love it. I do

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast called Hello Puzzlers and available everywhere, and it

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<v Speaker 2>is uh we give word put fun little word puzzles

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<v Speaker 2>to our guests and to each other. I have a

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<v Speaker 2>co host. And that came about because I wrote a

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<v Speaker 2>book about puzzles, mostly during COVID, which seemed like a

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<v Speaker 2>good time to write about puzzles. But I am a

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<v Speaker 2>huge fan of all types of puzzles, crossword puzzles, word find,

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<v Speaker 2>Jake Saws. I love Jake Saws. I'm not good at them,

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<v Speaker 2>but I love them and have I am convinced that

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<v Speaker 2>puzzles are not a waste of time. I know that

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<v Speaker 2>this this show is a lot about not wasting time,

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<v Speaker 2>using your time best you can. I believe puzzles are

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<v Speaker 2>a big part of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, tell us about that. I mean, what is it

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<v Speaker 1>about puzzles that. I mean, they're fun, they're fun, But

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<v Speaker 1>beyond just being fun, what are the benefits of that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I do puzzles every morning. I do the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times Crossword, I do connections, I do a

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<v Speaker 2>few others. I listen to my own podcast sometimes if sometimes,

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<v Speaker 2>Well that makes me feel good.

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<v Speaker 1>For the morning.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the benefits include h Well, one is

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<v Speaker 2>is you've probably heard that puzzles keep your brain sharp

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<v Speaker 2>and help with staving off cognitive decline, which I think

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<v Speaker 2>is true. It's not like I'm a cure all but

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<v Speaker 2>it does help a little. And it's not exclusively puzzles.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just about keeping your brain engaged. You could learn

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<v Speaker 2>a new language, you could, uh, you know, learn a

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<v Speaker 2>new hobby. So, but puzzles are one way to keep

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<v Speaker 2>your brain engaged. But I think there are other advantages

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<v Speaker 2>in addition. One is, for me, it really helps keep

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<v Speaker 2>my mind flex So puzzles train you to see the

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<v Speaker 2>world from all these different angles and looking for a solution.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's if you see a clue in the crossword

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<v Speaker 2>with the word trunk in it tr u n K,

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<v Speaker 2>you're thinking, okay, well that could be an elephant trunk,

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<v Speaker 2>it could be the trunk of a car, it could

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<v Speaker 2>be bathing suit trunks what my grandma called bathing suits

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<v Speaker 2>or trunks. And that flexibility of mind seeps out into

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<v Speaker 2>my whole worldview, so that when I'm confronted with a

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<v Speaker 2>problem at work or at home, I'm able to keep

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<v Speaker 2>my mind flexible and not lock in on what of

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<v Speaker 2>this has to be the answer. No, I'm able to

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<v Speaker 2>keep my brain fluid. And finally, and this I think

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<v Speaker 2>relates to a lot of your message. It really encourages

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<v Speaker 2>a mind what I call the puzzling mindset, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a mindset of deep curiosity and looking for solutions because

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<v Speaker 2>we are with the media, as you point out, is

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<v Speaker 2>so problem oriented and it's just your your hit with

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<v Speaker 2>this relentless stream of negative news without solutions being presented.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it when you can look for solutions. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a great quote I like by Quincy Jones, the late

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<v Speaker 2>music producer, and he's his philosophy of life. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have problems. I have puzzles, and it's just

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<v Speaker 2>that simple reframe of being like, I can solve this.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to roll up my sleeves. It's a challenge,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's not a crisis. I'm not going to curl

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<v Speaker 2>up in the corner in a fetal position. I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to try to make this happen and get to the solution.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. And I was listening to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Puzzlers the other day and you had I was

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<v Speaker 1>noticing what my brain was doing as I was going

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<v Speaker 1>through one of your puzzles, and just to if anyone

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<v Speaker 1>wants to try it here, it was that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>South American country that if you rearrange the letters of

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<v Speaker 1>the capitol will give you the name of another country.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course when you hear that, so then I'm

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<v Speaker 1>like going through my list of you know, South American countries,

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<v Speaker 1>which I probably haven't thought about that much. But of

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<v Speaker 1>course that has to pull back from somewhere at the

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<v Speaker 1>back of my brain that I had to fill out

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<v Speaker 1>that geography thing in tenth grade, and so I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>back through it, like, Okay, where is the capital. Where's

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<v Speaker 1>the capital? Does anything have a short capital, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>probably what it's going to be. Rearrange that. And then

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<v Speaker 1>of course, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, well, you

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<v Speaker 1>know i've been to all right, I'll tell you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>The answer Peru where Lima is of course Mallei with

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<v Speaker 1>the country in Africa. And so I was like, ah,

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<v Speaker 1>I got it, I got it. I'm very excited. But

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<v Speaker 1>it was like that little you know, that hunting through

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<v Speaker 1>your brain and then that moment of excitement. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's what's really what that's what it does, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, And I like to call that, or people

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<v Speaker 2>in the puzzle business called that the Aha moment. You

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<v Speaker 2>had an Aha moment, and that's what you're looking for,

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<v Speaker 2>and we as humans are wired for that aha moment.

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<v Speaker 2>And and I think that's you can you can make

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<v Speaker 2>that not just about puzzles, but about life, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>looking for the Aha moments in life. But I also

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<v Speaker 2>love what you did with the strategy because I think

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<v Speaker 2>that is very important too. When you're presented with a

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<v Speaker 2>puzzle or problem, what is the best way to solve this?

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<v Speaker 2>And you were like, well, I think it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be a short word and that was a key insight

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<v Speaker 2>that will help a lot. So taking a step back

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<v Speaker 2>whenever you're presented with a puzzle or problem, what is

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<v Speaker 2>the best way to solve that? Instead of diving right

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<v Speaker 2>in and trying to solve it, step back and say

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<v Speaker 2>what strategies should I use?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I hear that you may have a puzzle

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<v Speaker 1>for us. I do.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I wrote it this morning, hear it. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>it's not all that elaborate, but it is. It is

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<v Speaker 2>breakfast themed. So I thought that.

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<v Speaker 1>People haven't had their coffee yet. But we don't need

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<v Speaker 1>a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Of frids exactly. Well, I just noticed that there are

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of fun phrases in the English language that

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<v Speaker 2>include breakfast foods. All right, so I am going to

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<v Speaker 2>give you a hint a clue where I will paraphrase

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<v Speaker 2>one of these idioms that include breakfast food, and you

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<v Speaker 2>tell me what you think might be the phrase, and

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<v Speaker 2>I will give you the food if you want, I

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<v Speaker 2>will give it to you up front, but for instance,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll start with an example.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Food, a breakfast food phrase that means to earn money,

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<v Speaker 2>So that is.

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<v Speaker 1>Bring home, bring home the bacon, the bacon. Okay, is

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<v Speaker 1>going to go all right? All right, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>This phrase means to risk everything on a single plan

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<v Speaker 2>or a single person.

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<v Speaker 1>So, oh, all your eggs in one back.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at that. You didn't even need a hint. Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, all right. This phrase refers to the unpleasant

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<v Speaker 2>process behind creating a finished product.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, how we're making the sauce.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, you are good, you are good. You know your

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<v Speaker 2>breakfast foods and.

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<v Speaker 1>I know my breakfast foods.

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<v Speaker 2>How about if you, uh, if you've got to face

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<v Speaker 2>an unpleasant reality, you would encourage people to.

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<v Speaker 1>Would we eat that frog? Are we going?

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<v Speaker 2>That's interesting? Some people have frogs for breakfast.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, that's what we say. Okay, well, we like to

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<v Speaker 1>think about that one. We're gonna take it. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to take an ad. Break listeners come up with it,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we'll be right back. Well, I am back

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<v Speaker 1>talking with A. J. Jacobs, who is the co host

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<v Speaker 1>of the Hello Puzzlers podcast, author of several books of

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<v Speaker 1>sort of experiential journalism Doing things for a year. So

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<v Speaker 1>he is giving me some brain teasers here on breakfast

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<v Speaker 1>related idioms. Okay, so repeat the one you did just

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<v Speaker 1>before the break.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this one. And I should have mentioned because maybe

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<v Speaker 2>this was the it's the I'm including beverages as well

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<v Speaker 2>as okay, beverages, all right, so this is to face.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're encouraging someone to face an unpleasant reality, you

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<v Speaker 2>might tell them too. It's the most famous, at least

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<v Speaker 2>in America, breakfast, beverage, coffee. Yeah, and what do you

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<v Speaker 2>have to do in every morning? You have to before anything?

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<v Speaker 2>You open your eyes?

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<v Speaker 1>You okay, you got me here.

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<v Speaker 2>Wake up and smell the coffee.

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<v Speaker 1>Wake up and smell the coffee. Okay, gotcha? All right, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's all right. We got last one.

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<v Speaker 2>Last one. Last one is uh, this is this is

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<v Speaker 2>a person who is very admired or celebrated in a

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<v Speaker 2>certain community or or small city. Uh. And it is

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<v Speaker 2>a I'll give you the food. Okay, it is toast.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a phrase with toast blank blank blank,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who is very celebrated.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, the toast of the town, most of the town.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. You got it too.

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<v Speaker 1>I have never thought of that many breakfast related idioms,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's true. It's true. I guess we're all we're

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<v Speaker 1>into our breakfast items totally.

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<v Speaker 2>And who wouldn't be. It's it's a great meal.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, it is, for sure. So AJ, how should

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<v Speaker 1>we I mean, are there particular puzzles you would recommend

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<v Speaker 1>that a newbie look into. If somebody's like, Okay, this

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<v Speaker 1>sounds good, I'd like to try doing a few puzzles.

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<v Speaker 1>Where should people go or what should they try if

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<v Speaker 1>they're new to this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a good question. And I do think that

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<v Speaker 2>there are puzzles for everyone. So some people like logic puzzles,

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<v Speaker 2>some like number puzzles, some like word puzzles, like me. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>the scientists do say that the more you can vary

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<v Speaker 2>the types of puzzles, the better it is for keeping

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<v Speaker 2>your brain active. So I can just tell you some

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<v Speaker 2>of my favorites. I do the spelling Bee in the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times, which is a good starter puzzle because

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<v Speaker 2>it's basically jumble. It's like, you know, finding words, the

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<v Speaker 2>word search and anagrams. I do the crossword in the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times, which is tough. The Monday is the easiest,

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<v Speaker 2>but even the Monday is tough. It took me like

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<v Speaker 2>five years to get where I can finish all of

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<v Speaker 2>the puzzles. So it is a language that you have

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<v Speaker 2>to learn. There's a fun one on the Atlantic website

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<v Speaker 2>called racket City, which is free. I recommend that there's

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<v Speaker 2>one called parseword dot com, which was created by the

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<v Speaker 2>guy who created Wordle, named Josh Wardle. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>there's Hello Puzzlers. And we do try to have very

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<v Speaker 2>accessible puzzles because we know this is part of a

0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of people's morning routine. And yeah, you don't want

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>to frustrate them too much at the beginning of the day.

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, I feel like the crossword puzzles. I

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.200
<v Speaker 1>have not yet crossed that bridge to like the New

0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 1>York Times crossroad puzzle. I mean maybe someday, but I

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.679
<v Speaker 1>have not yet attained to that level.

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you could. It's as I said, it's all

0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:40.679
<v Speaker 2>a language to learn.

0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, I know somebody who does it with

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.480
<v Speaker 1>like either the down or the across. Oh covered.

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.960
<v Speaker 2>That's a tough guy, yeah, a tough woman.

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Exactly exactly. I wanted to pivot to your sort of

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 1>genre of experiential journalism, which you so like own that

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.080
<v Speaker 1>category with all the books you've done in that. How

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 1>do you do like, how do you come up with

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 1>your topics for that? What makes you say that is

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 1>something I should try doing for a year.

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, I actually I am very passionate about idea generation,

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and in fact, that is one of my part of

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 2>my morning routine is I actually spend ten minutes. I

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 2>have a remarkable tablet, you know those tablets, which I

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>like because I cut it off from the Internet, and

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I just come up with ideas for ten minutes I

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 2>have Sometimes I have a magazine and I use that

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 2>as like a mental jungle gym. And one key is

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 2>that ninety eight percent of those ideas are crap. They

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 2>are just not good, but hopefully there's two percent that

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 2>are good. It's really a numbers game creativity. So I

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 2>am a huge fan of that, and I come up

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>with book ideas, article ideas, random ideas that I know

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>are not going anywhere, but just keep my brain fluid

0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 2>and flexible. As far as books come, I try to

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>find books. First of all. I like to think of

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 2>the customer, the reader, you know, what would they be

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 2>interested in? What would I want my book to check

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 2>a couple of boxes. One I wanted to be able

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 2>to improve their life. I want I want to stay

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:27.120
<v Speaker 2>married to my wife. So there are topics that.

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.239
<v Speaker 1>She said, you just won't go into.

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she is Yeah, So there's that. There's something

0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be timely. I wanted to be broad

0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>enough so that it can encompass a year's worth of adventures.

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>So my topics are usually big gratitude, the Bible, health,

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 2>so some of those are some of the considerations.

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>And how do you project manage something like that? Like

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>they say, you know, you recently did the Constitutional year

0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 1>as we're coming into the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 1>here the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, but still

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, related people are celebrating two hundred and fifty

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 1>years of America here, Like how did you project manage that?

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Like you look at doing that and then you say,

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do this for a year. How do

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 1>you sketch out what you're going to do?

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:16.880
<v Speaker 2>That's a good quote. Well, first of all, I'm a

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 2>huge fan of outlining in terms of writing. I love that.

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I also keep two different sets of notes to keep

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 2>be organized. So I have a note I have sort

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 2>of a journal where it's my personal experience, like you know,

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 2>what it was like to pretend to be a revolutionary

0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 2>war soldier and fight in the fake battle of Trenton.

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 2>And then I have another part where it's all research

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 2>because I do like to research, read hundreds of books,

0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 2>so that's one. I also for the Constitution book. I

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 2>think this is relevant. I decided to follow Ben Franklin's

0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 2>morning routine, which is to wake up at five AM.

0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.399
<v Speaker 2>And I used to be a night owl, wake up

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 2>at nine or ten in the in the morning. But

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.199
<v Speaker 2>I've switched. I've so I don't think it's you know,

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 2>it is possible to switch, at least for me, and

0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I love it. I wake up at five. The first thing,

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.120
<v Speaker 2>by the way, Brent Franklin did, he said he had

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 2>a little reminder what good can you do today? Which

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I love. That is just such a night and I

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.720
<v Speaker 2>try to remind myself in many days and I don't

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 2>don't I don't know if I'm doing good. Is this

0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.320
<v Speaker 2>help in the world? Maybe maybe not, but it's a

0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:45.560
<v Speaker 2>good goal to shoot for.

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, we love Ben Franklin around here. Always this

0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.199
<v Speaker 1>to Ben Franklin in the self help universe. But I

0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.760
<v Speaker 1>mean with with something like that, I mean part of

0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>when you're writing about your experiences, I mean nonfictionate needs

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.199
<v Speaker 1>to sort of have these epiphanies like these realizations of

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.800
<v Speaker 1>something that happened, and yet when you're going into something

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 1>you can't really know for sure where the epiphany is

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.679
<v Speaker 1>gonna happen. I'm curious how you think about structuring your

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.640
<v Speaker 1>activities through a project like that in order to get

0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 1>realizations that will make compelling anecdotes.

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 2>I love that. That is a great question, and it

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.800
<v Speaker 2>is hard because you have to I feel that it's

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:30.119
<v Speaker 2>a balance between having a structure and being able to

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.639
<v Speaker 2>improvise within that structure, and I think that's that's in

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 2>many endeavors. But yeah, I have a structure where I

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>know it's going to start and end at the year.

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I know that. For instance, with the Gratitude Book, I

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 2>hoped at the end that I would become more grateful.

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>It would be a little disappointing if I didn't. And

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.119
<v Speaker 2>then I came up with here are ten what they

0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>call in movie set pieces. Here, I want to go

0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 2>down to South America and visit the coffee farmer. I

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 2>want to meet with the guy who tastes the coffee

0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and says, oh, there's a hint of licorice and a

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 2>little bit of chocolate. And I'm always like you know,

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 2>it tastes like coffee to me, but I love that

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:25.680
<v Speaker 2>you can taste all that other stuff. So having those

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 2>set pieces and at each one, I'm like, what did

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I learn? What can I take away that I can

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 2>give the reader as a as a lesson. And for instance,

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.640
<v Speaker 2>with the tasting one, it was a lot about savoring,

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.040
<v Speaker 2>which is a big part of you know, holding onto

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.639
<v Speaker 2>that moment for a little bit longer instead of just

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:50.560
<v Speaker 2>letting everything flit by so rapidly like we often do.

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, well, We're going to take one more quick ad

0:19:54.280 --> 0:20:03.920
<v Speaker 1>break and I'll be back with more from AJ Jacobs. Well,

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I am back talking with AJ. Jacobs is the author

0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 1>of several books, including the Year of Living Constitutionally, The

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Year of Living Biblically, and The Puzzler. He's the co

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 1>host of the podcast Hello Puzzlers. So Aj a few

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 1>you know a little earlier in the show, you mentioned

0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.879
<v Speaker 1>your morning routine has an element of idea generation that

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>you're sitting down come up with ideas. What else is

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:25.360
<v Speaker 1>part of your morning routine?

0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, I love my morning routine, and I mean it's weird.

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.479
<v Speaker 2>As I've gotten older, I've i have become a morning person.

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:41.440
<v Speaker 2>So idea generation. I have a list of I won't

0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 2>call them affirmations because some of them are kind of depressing,

0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.239
<v Speaker 2>but they are reminders you know, you're only here for

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 2>a little on this world. Try to make the most

0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:58.359
<v Speaker 2>of it, or you know, get curious, not furious. That's

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.680
<v Speaker 2>on the phrase I love, and I have a list

0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.840
<v Speaker 2>of like fifty of those. So I'll just look at

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.320
<v Speaker 2>those during the morning for a couple of minutes to

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:18.480
<v Speaker 2>ground myself. I have the brain storming. I do split

0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.639
<v Speaker 2>up my exercise throughout the day, so I do five

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 2>minutes on the treadmill in the morning, but then I'll

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.199
<v Speaker 2>do I'll get back on four or five times and

0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.679
<v Speaker 2>do another five minutes. But I from my research, and

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a doctor, I think it's a little more

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 2>healthy than bunching all of the exercise at once. So

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.360
<v Speaker 2>those are just a few of the things I love

0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:41.679
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I love that. Well, I'm going to next time I

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 1>want to get off the treadmill after five minutes, I'm

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 1>going to remember that excuse of first I have to

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>get back on at some point.

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 2>That's the downside.

0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, oh well, And I'm curious when you mentioned

0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 1>earlier that ninety eight percent of the ideas are bad.

0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.920
<v Speaker 1>How do you know a bad idea from a good one?

0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, such a it's a great question. I have a

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 2>couple of tests that I do. One is I am

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 2>very free with telling people my ideas, and a lot

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.480
<v Speaker 2>of people are who I tell are friends and they're

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 2>not going to say that absolutely sucks, but you can

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of see it in their eyes. You can see

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>or if they ask follow up questions. So that's one test.

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Another test is am I still thinking about this idea

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.359
<v Speaker 2>in a couple of weeks and being like, oh, that

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:33.679
<v Speaker 2>is an interesting idea. If I just forget it the

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.920
<v Speaker 2>next day, maybe it's not worthwhile. And then just experimenting

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.120
<v Speaker 2>starting to write and say, you know, is this flowing?

0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Is does this have legs? Because yeah, you can't always

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>decide in advance of a project. You might have to

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 2>start it and see if it takes off.

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 1>Yep, test it out a little bit, just like a puzzle.

0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:00.800
<v Speaker 1>You have to work with it a bite, see what

0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.119
<v Speaker 1>you're pulling back from your brain and trying out and

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.439
<v Speaker 1>looking at it in a different way. So aja I

0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.040
<v Speaker 1>always ask my guests what is something you have done

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 1>recently to take a day from great to awesome.

0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I have another little habit ritual that I do

0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:19.159
<v Speaker 2>that I have found very helpful, and I wrote about it.

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:23.080
<v Speaker 2>I wrote about it on my substack Experimental Living with

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.440
<v Speaker 2>ad Jacobs if anyone wants to check it out.

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:27.080
<v Speaker 1>And it is.

0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Just really keeping track of my moods when some both

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>good and bad. When I'm grateful for something, I write

0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:40.360
<v Speaker 2>it down on a little index card and I said, oh,

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.919
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm grateful that my dog wanted her belly rubbed,

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, just little things and also things that annoy me.

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 2>This person didn't text back, you know. And I find

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>it good because it helps me savor the good emotions.

0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 2>And also when I write down what I'm annoyed about,

0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 2>more often than not it's something dumb and that I

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:10.719
<v Speaker 2>look at it when I write it down, I'm like, oh,

0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 2>I got to get over that. That is not a

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 2>good use of my mental energy. Now there are apps

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.120
<v Speaker 2>you can get on the iPhone that do this mood tracking,

0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>and they work for some people. I tried them. For me,

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I actually like the physical index card because I have

0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.400
<v Speaker 2>it in front of me on my desk with a pencil,

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 2>and so it's almost It's very much a reminder like

0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:38.320
<v Speaker 2>when I have an emotion of gratitude or annoyance that

0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 2>I should can write it down, and the iPhone is

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:46.479
<v Speaker 2>not as helpful in that way. So that is something

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 2>that has really I wrote about it like six months ago.

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 2>I did it for like three months. Then I'm like,

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe I should take you know, maybe it's

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 2>served its purpose. And I found it was affecting my

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:02.560
<v Speaker 2>day material I wasn't as happy, and I went back

0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 2>to it, and now I am committed. I think I'm

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 2>gonna do it for the foreseeable future.

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I love it. I love it well. And writing down

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 1>things that annoy you gets part of getting curious instead

0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:16.119
<v Speaker 1>of furious, right exactly. Maybe it's not as big as

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:18.040
<v Speaker 1>I thought it Once I write it.

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Down, and why does that annoy me so much? It's

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:21.120
<v Speaker 2>like a little puzzle.

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:23.639
<v Speaker 1>It is a little puzzle. So ajay, what are you

0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:24.880
<v Speaker 1>looking forward to right now?

0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I am looking for it. I feel very lucky that

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.199
<v Speaker 2>I get to do what I do for a living.

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:39.679
<v Speaker 2>And part of my overall thesis is that life that

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 2>we should all experiment with our lives. So and you

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.639
<v Speaker 2>don't have to grow a beard and wear a robe

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:50.000
<v Speaker 2>like I did for following the Bible. But it could

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 2>be just small experiments. It could be trying a new toothpaste,

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a new way to work, et cetera. So I am

0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:01.560
<v Speaker 2>always looking forward to the next experiment because I think

0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:05.760
<v Speaker 2>it keeps life interesting. It improves life. Sometimes painful because

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.560
<v Speaker 2>not all the experiments work out, but it is a

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:17.120
<v Speaker 2>way to keep your mind young and carve new paths

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 2>in your brain and make life interesting. So that's what

0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking forward to.

0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Excellent. Well, aj, where can people find you?

0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I am I have that sub stack I mentioned Experimental

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Living with aj Jacobs, and I also have the Hello

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Puzzlers podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and I'm on

0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:45.119
<v Speaker 2>the socials at aj Jacobs wherever you can find me.

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:48.320
<v Speaker 2>But I love hearing from readers and listeners and people,

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 2>whether it's ideas or constructive critiques, whatever it is I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I think writing can be a lonely a lonely job,

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<v Speaker 2>so I love that people have these ways of reaching out.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely well, aj thank you so much for joining us,

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you to everyone for listening. If you have

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<v Speaker 1>feedback about this or any other episode. As Ajay mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>it's nice to hear from people, so you can always

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<v Speaker 1>reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In

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<v Speaker 1>the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's

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<v Speaker 1>to making the most of our time. Thanks for listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,

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<v Speaker 1>you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows.