Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt
Speaker 1: and today we're talking how to hack your home and
Speaker 1: live for free with Craig curl Up. Yeah, today we're
Speaker 1: talking with our friend Craig curlp. And back in seventeen,
Speaker 1: Craig had a negative net worth of thirty thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: but by implementing different tactics to earn more, to spend less,
Speaker 1: and then invest the difference, he was able to reach
Speaker 1: financial independence two years later in twenty nineteen. And house
Speaker 1: hacking it played a major role in Craig's rapid assent
Speaker 1: towards financial freedom, and that is what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1: Craig's written the book The House Hacking Strategy, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna cover all of the ins and outs of house
Speaker 1: hacking and how it is that it changed Craig's life.
Speaker 1: We're going to discuss the different house hacking methods because
Speaker 1: there are a variety of options that you can go
Speaker 1: with um and some of that actually too depends on
Speaker 1: your personal situation, like if you're single, if you have
Speaker 1: a family, and so we're going to cover what you
Speaker 1: need to know before you start house hacking as well. Craig,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Matt
Speaker 1: and Joel, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the great introduction. And yeah, it was amazing
Speaker 1: to meet you guys a couple of months back. That's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got to hang out in person, Craig, which was
Speaker 1: a true honor, a pleasure. And yeah, we love meeting
Speaker 1: our fellow money nerd friends. We got to see his
Speaker 1: mustache in real life, which was always you'll be able
Speaker 1: to touch it? Maybe, oh, impress empty there. That's um,
Speaker 1: that's a very very kind of you to offer, Craig.
Speaker 1: The first question, right, Yeah, the first question we ask
Speaker 1: everyone who comes on the show, though, is you know,
Speaker 1: Matt and I, everybody knows that we like a good
Speaker 1: craft beer and we don't mind spending money on it.
Speaker 1: It's something that we splurge onn while we're also trying
Speaker 1: to save and invest well for the future. So yeah,
Speaker 1: for you, do you have a craft your equivalent, something
Speaker 1: that you exploge on in the here and now while
Speaker 1: also house hacking and saving your money. So this might
Speaker 1: be a cheap, but tell me and if it is,
Speaker 1: I'll make him another one. But I splurge on having
Speaker 1: people like do things for me if that makes you know,
Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, an example is I had
Speaker 1: this table that I had to put together, and I
Speaker 1: just kept dreading it and dreading it, and so I
Speaker 1: just called a task Rabbit and for thirty dollars, they
Speaker 1: came and put together at the table in like an hour,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that is the best of the
Speaker 1: dollars I've ever spent. And like, you know, those lingering
Speaker 1: tasks that like you gotta get it done, you gotta
Speaker 1: get done because like you never find times to do it.
Speaker 1: I just have been hiring those out and they're usually
Speaker 1: like thirty to fifty dollars to get done. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a splurge. And it's just so amazing to
Speaker 1: have things that you don't want to do already done
Speaker 1: for you, especially when you are able bodied and you know,
Speaker 1: like you're like I could do that, I just don't
Speaker 1: want to. Yeah, I think if that is a splurge
Speaker 1: and occasionally a worthwhile one. So yeah, I like definitely
Speaker 1: a splourish, But dude, for me, I think it would
Speaker 1: be so difficult because I get a sense of satisfaction
Speaker 1: when I'm able to accomplish, you know, even if it's
Speaker 1: a menial task where something that's more where the physical
Speaker 1: labors involved, that sense of accomplishment like yeah, I like
Speaker 1: not doing it and having it get done and being like,
Speaker 1: holy crap, it's done. Well. Someday, Craig, you're gonna hire
Speaker 1: one of those tasks out and it's gonna be Matt
Speaker 1: who's the task grab it that actually shows up because
Speaker 1: it makes me so happy. If it makes you so
Speaker 1: happy putting the other furniture, like dropping random things off
Speaker 1: at random places, it does for myself. I'll say that
Speaker 1: maybe maybe less uh anomaly for everybody else who's looking
Speaker 1: to hire out there. But you know, Craig, let's kind
Speaker 1: of dive into this. You've called yourself an average guy
Speaker 1: just doing average things. You've said that motivation is your
Speaker 1: distinguishing factor, and so you know, question we have for you,
Speaker 1: like do you really think that basically anyone can incorporate
Speaker 1: the strategies that you're using to build wealth? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I think anybody, anybody on this earth can do
Speaker 1: what I've done. Right. Um, And as you start are
Speaker 1: doing things and you start being a little different, is
Speaker 1: when more and more opportunities start to come your way.
Speaker 1: And so people may say, oh, yeah, well, like you
Speaker 1: wrote a book from your pockets. Well it's like, well
Speaker 1: that came like three years into my journey and I
Speaker 1: had written fifty or sixty blog posts for them and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and so there was an opportunity that
Speaker 1: came right. And so I think that if you start
Speaker 1: doing things a little differently, you'll see more and more
Speaker 1: opportunities pop up. And you know, that's when your life
Speaker 1: really opens up. Okay, all right, I like it. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an element of you gotta put in the work,
Speaker 1: and you've got to be motivated to put in the
Speaker 1: work before you're going to see the results. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes in like the Instagram world we live in,
Speaker 1: we see results on display all the time and we
Speaker 1: don't see like the backstory of what it took to
Speaker 1: actually achieve that. And so yeah, I think that can
Speaker 1: be demotivating for some people, um when it doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: success doesn't happen overnight for them. But but let's specifically,
Speaker 1: let's talk about house hacking, and can you get us
Speaker 1: a set up, like, how do you define house hacking?
Speaker 1: What does it mean? Yeah? For sure, so house hacking
Speaker 1: is the idea that you purchase a one to four
Speaker 1: unit property with zero to five percent down, so you're
Speaker 1: doing a low percent down purchase on a wonderful unit property.
Speaker 1: You need to live in that property for one year
Speaker 1: because that's what allows you to get the low down
Speaker 1: down payment. And while you're living there, you're renting out
Speaker 1: either the other rooms if you're living in a single family,
Speaker 1: or you're renting out the other units if you're living
Speaker 1: in a two, three or four unit. That rent that
Speaker 1: you're getting covers your mortgage and you're able to live
Speaker 1: for free, thereby reducing or eliminating what likely is your
Speaker 1: largest expense in housing. So this is obviously something that
Speaker 1: you've done. But why is this? Like it seems like
Speaker 1: this is one of your favorite wealth building tactics, you know.
Speaker 1: So so first of all, why is that? And then
Speaker 1: I guess, maybe, yeah, what got you so excited to
Speaker 1: share this with other people? So you know, everyone probably
Speaker 1: listened to this podcast understands financial dependence, right, and that
Speaker 1: that basic formula of hey, once you're passive income exceeds
Speaker 1: your expenses, your financially independent and for me, the quickest
Speaker 1: way to achieve financial independence was to just pick up
Speaker 1: enough rental properties with that rent or passive income exceeds
Speaker 1: my expenses. And with house hacking, you really only need
Speaker 1: such a fraction. You know, you only need three or
Speaker 1: five percent down. Right, So let's say you're gonna buy
Speaker 1: a five hundred thousand dollar house, right, which is a
Speaker 1: fairly expensive house for most of the United States. You're
Speaker 1: gonna put three percent down. That's fifteen thousand, maybe twenty
Speaker 1: dollars after miscellaneous costs. So with twenty dollars, you're able
Speaker 1: to purchase this five hundred thousand dollar asset that's gonna
Speaker 1: pay you, hopefully a thousand dollars a month of passive income.
Speaker 1: It's going to increase in value over time if you
Speaker 1: hold it long enough, you're going to get tax advantages,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna get loan paid down, So your net
Speaker 1: worth increases in four different ways by putting such a
Speaker 1: small amount down, such that your return on investment is
Speaker 1: pretty much over every single time. Like I've done five
Speaker 1: house hacks now, every single one has been a hundred
Speaker 1: percent or more return on investment, and I've helped out
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of people directly get house hacks at
Speaker 1: almost every single time their returns on investment are a
Speaker 1: hundred percent or more. And I just don't know any
Speaker 1: sort of real estate or any sort of investment in
Speaker 1: general that you can consistently achieve one hundred percent returns
Speaker 1: without the risk and without speculation. Okay, Yeah, Matt and
Speaker 1: I we like real estate a lot too, and we
Speaker 1: have participated in various house hacks. I had a renter
Speaker 1: in the back of a duplex for a while, and
Speaker 1: actually the first house I bought, I had a roommate
Speaker 1: in that house who paid most of the mortgage, So
Speaker 1: I totally get where you're coming from. Matt had an
Speaker 1: Airbnb in this basement, which is now our podcasting studio.
Speaker 1: But while you you've just sung the praises, you also
Speaker 1: in the book you do mention the downsides, which I
Speaker 1: appreciate because even as exciting of a prospect this house
Speaker 1: hacking can be for people, it's nice to know all
Speaker 1: the information. So, yeah, what would you say if are
Speaker 1: the worst things about house a house hacking? What are
Speaker 1: the downsides that people need to be aware of before
Speaker 1: they like jump in with both feet. Yeah, so the
Speaker 1: downside is that it is more it is work. You
Speaker 1: have additional responsibility if something breaks in the house. You know,
Speaker 1: if the rooms aren't filled like you're in, there's higher
Speaker 1: risk because your mortgage without any tenants is going to
Speaker 1: be more than your rent probably and so you will
Speaker 1: probably lose in the short term if you don't get tenants.
Speaker 1: So you have a little bit of pressure and a
Speaker 1: little bit of responsibility to get that thing filled, to
Speaker 1: make sure your tenants get along, make sure your leases
Speaker 1: look good, make sure you screen your tenants wisely, make
Speaker 1: sure the property is working right, and so there is
Speaker 1: a little bit more work that is involved in the
Speaker 1: short term, right, But the whole idea is that you're
Speaker 1: building assets when you're relatively young, so that in five
Speaker 1: to ten years from now you can offload that to
Speaker 1: a property manager. It's a little to no work for
Speaker 1: you and you're just chilling with the passive income. Got it,
Speaker 1: And you know, Craig reo quick I want to talk
Speaker 1: about too. I mean, like Joel mentioned, were in the
Speaker 1: real estates here a little bit in addition to the
Speaker 1: other pursuits that we have, but you specifically zero to
Speaker 1: five percent down. We often talk about down to avoid
Speaker 1: p M. I can you share with our listeners how
Speaker 1: they can go about getting a property with even zero
Speaker 1: dollars down. Yeah, so zero dollars down that is typically
Speaker 1: reserved for military folks. The v A loan allows you
Speaker 1: to purchase a property with zero percent down. Now, the downside,
Speaker 1: so that is the v A loan is a little
Speaker 1: bit harder to get accepted by sellers. So in a
Speaker 1: competitive market, you just might have a little bit of trouble.
Speaker 1: But because you're putting zero percent down, you can probably
Speaker 1: afford to go a little bit higher, right because you
Speaker 1: don't have any down payment, So that might be a
Speaker 1: way to counteract that. Another way to get zero percent
Speaker 1: down is what's called the U. S d A loan,
Speaker 1: And yes it's the same you know, the same corporation
Speaker 1: or the same entity that grades your beef like U.
Speaker 1: S d A graded the opera housing loans, but it's
Speaker 1: more for people in rural areas, so you'll have to
Speaker 1: just look online to see if your area qualifies. But
Speaker 1: if you're anywhere near like a bigger city, you probably
Speaker 1: won't qualify for that. Okay, I go to the same
Speaker 1: place for my stake and from a home loans personally,
Speaker 1: and I love kind of how how you talk about
Speaker 1: real estate in general, you say that a big part
Speaker 1: of the problem is that we're just thinking about housing
Speaker 1: all wrong. Like the way we think about buying homes
Speaker 1: needs like a refresh, because we're looking to basically buy
Speaker 1: the nicest single family home that we can comfortably afford
Speaker 1: into our budget. Like why why is that method, which
Speaker 1: is the traditional method, which is the route that most
Speaker 1: people go, Why is that such a bad idea? Well,
Speaker 1: that's such a bad idea because you put yourself in
Speaker 1: a position where if you lose your job, which can
Speaker 1: literally happen tomorrow, or you suddenly stopped liking your job,
Speaker 1: your life becomes miserable because you need to work. Right,
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I'm all about owning a home.
Speaker 1: And we're actually under contract for a million dollar forever
Speaker 1: home right now, but that's after seven house acts. Between
Speaker 1: me and my girlfriend. We've got twenty something properties, and
Speaker 1: our income from those properties can easily satisfy our mortgage payment.
Speaker 1: And so you know, it took five plus year of
Speaker 1: of kind of hustle and living in unideal situations to
Speaker 1: live now in our ideal situation, which we're very comfortable,
Speaker 1: comfortably able to afford and so I'm not totally against it.
Speaker 1: I'm just totally against first home is your forever home
Speaker 1: jump right out of the gate and you're paying to
Speaker 1: three tho dollars a month in a mortgage payment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a different mentality that a lot of
Speaker 1: especially first time homebuyers, homebuyers need to keep in mind
Speaker 1: as they're starting to look at properties. They I think
Speaker 1: they do have that mindset when they're looking at houses
Speaker 1: for the first time, and they thinking about it more
Speaker 1: as an investment, as a you know, compared to something
Speaker 1: that is just going to be your forever home right
Speaker 1: out of the gate. Is an important thing to keep
Speaker 1: in mind a little bit that sacrifice early on can
Speaker 1: pay off big dividends down the road. Totally. Yeah, yeah, Craig.
Speaker 1: So currently the market is really hot right now, you know,
Speaker 1: prices are they're up double digits year over year. Do
Speaker 1: you feel that it's possible right now to still find
Speaker 1: an investment property that makes sense, you know, to house hack,
Speaker 1: even in this climate. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I actually just did a TikTok I went like semi
Speaker 1: viral about this exact thing where you know, in everyone works.
Speaker 1: By the way, you will never hear me saying congrat
Speaker 1: thank yeah, it's my second one. So I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna roll. So you know, in seventeen I bought
Speaker 1: my first place and everyone was scared of the market
Speaker 1: was going to crash, and people were like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna wait, right, every year is the same story, right,
Speaker 1: And so the point is it is just like the market,
Speaker 1: you really can't time it. You can't time the real
Speaker 1: estate market either. So if you're just able to buy
Speaker 1: a house every year on the year, and you can
Speaker 1: make sure that it cash flows, then it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: with the market. Dose right, My houses can all lose
Speaker 1: half their value tomorrow and they'll still be cash fling
Speaker 1: me a thousand dollars or so a month. And even
Speaker 1: if rents decrease by they'll still cash for me eight
Speaker 1: dollars a month. So that is like the whole thing is,
Speaker 1: if you can hold on and you're not forced to sell,
Speaker 1: then nothing will happen. What happened to two thousand eight
Speaker 1: was there was a bunch of flippers and a bunch
Speaker 1: of people trying to make a quick buck and that's why,
Speaker 1: and they were forced to sell and that's why the prices,
Speaker 1: you know, the market crashed. So I don't see there
Speaker 1: being a big crash. What I see is there may
Speaker 1: be a a a crash in some other market I
Speaker 1: don't know, potentially crypto, potentially student loans, student whatever, right,
Speaker 1: that may cause the market to go down. And then
Speaker 1: because the market goes down, people will have less liquidity,
Speaker 1: maybe they lose their jobs and whatnot, and so then
Speaker 1: the housing price the housing market will then just kind
Speaker 1: of go down a little bit, right, But I don't
Speaker 1: see the big crash because I don't see real estate
Speaker 1: as being like the fundamental flaw of this next crash
Speaker 1: whenever it happens. Yeah, there could be some reverberations because
Speaker 1: of other financial issues in the economy potentially, but but
Speaker 1: still yeah, like because it's a physical place, uh that
Speaker 1: that you own, and people always need a place to live,
Speaker 1: there's a certain element to which you're right, Like rents
Speaker 1: can decrease, but they're not going to go to zero
Speaker 1: and uh, Craig. We want to get into your story though,
Speaker 1: because you just mentioned the fact that you're buying a
Speaker 1: million dollar home now. But we we want to like
Speaker 1: discuss like all the hard work that it took to
Speaker 1: get there, because your story and the specific house hacks
Speaker 1: that you undertook are really interesting. So yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: ask you all about that right after this break. Alright,
Speaker 1: we'll back to the break. We're talking with Craig Curlap
Speaker 1: about house hacking, and uh, let's let's start way back
Speaker 1: at the beginning. Craig, we want to talk about your
Speaker 1: your first ever Craig and diapers right now, the first
Speaker 1: alice that you purchase. Tell us about your first house ack,
Speaker 1: because you're all about living for free, but this one
Speaker 1: didn't get you to that point immediately. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that one. Yeah, So it
Speaker 1: was back in two seventeen UM. I was coming from
Speaker 1: a job that I hated to Denver, right, so kind
Speaker 1: of wipe the slate clean and I pretty much went
Speaker 1: all out right, So I was living. I found a duplex.
Speaker 1: It was up down duplex, totally redone like very pretty,
Speaker 1: very good looking. But they were both one bed, one
Speaker 1: bathroom apartments and it was a mile and a half
Speaker 1: from the office as to where it worked. So I
Speaker 1: knew I could bike or walk to work pretty easily.
Speaker 1: And so what I did was I rented out the
Speaker 1: top and lived in the bottom. However, the rent from
Speaker 1: the top didn't quite cover my mortgage fully, so I
Speaker 1: rented out my bedroom on Airbnb and kind of put
Speaker 1: up like a curtain in a room divider with a
Speaker 1: food on in the living room and rented out my bedroom.
Speaker 1: And so that allowed me to you know, live a
Speaker 1: d percent for free and even make like six dollars
Speaker 1: a month on my living What do you call that?
Speaker 1: Like blue collar house hacking? Like that, that's like house
Speaker 1: hacking to it's like furthest possible extent. It seems like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say maybe one step further is like getting
Speaker 1: a camper and like putting that in the driveway and
Speaker 1: living in the camper. To some people is actually probably
Speaker 1: more desirable because at least you have your own private space. Um,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think of that at the time. So
Speaker 1: the living room is kind of you know what I did,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of like, oh my god, I would
Speaker 1: never do that. But that whole thing allowed me to, say,
Speaker 1: of another thirty or forty grand in the next year
Speaker 1: so that I can then purchase the next one, right,
Speaker 1: So I knew that it was just like a foundational
Speaker 1: approach to it was a building block, yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, if you're listening to this
Speaker 1: and you're like, then you're single and you don't have
Speaker 1: a family or anything, like you gotta take your situation
Speaker 1: that you're in and make the most of it. And
Speaker 1: the most of that situation is kind of living like
Speaker 1: kind of like a bum right, Like do that for
Speaker 1: a year to save, and then you'll, you know, then
Speaker 1: you can start buying house hack after househack after house hack,
Speaker 1: and after four or five house as you'll find yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, with a pretty sizable net worth, with a
Speaker 1: good amount of passive income, and then you can start
Speaker 1: doing some more fun things. You can start giving back
Speaker 1: in your life. I mean, it becomes easier, you can
Speaker 1: regain some of that privacy. Did you like a deadline
Speaker 1: or an end insight? Because now you're engaged, you're buying
Speaker 1: your own home. This was this was like, you know,
Speaker 1: almost five years ago at this point when you undertook
Speaker 1: like living in the living room of this duplex in
Speaker 1: order to maximize the dollars the cash flow into your life.
Speaker 1: Like did you say, all right, I'm gonna do this,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna grin and bear it for six months, nine months,
Speaker 1: or a year. Obviously, this wasn't something you wanted to
Speaker 1: do for a decade. This this was, like Matt said,
Speaker 1: a building block. How did you know how long you
Speaker 1: were actually going to be willing to Yeah, commit to
Speaker 1: the strategy. Yeah, So ultimately I knew my life would change, right.
Speaker 1: I knew I would it. Some day, I would meet
Speaker 1: somebody it. Some day I'd want to settle down and
Speaker 1: that this was not a forever thing. But I figured
Speaker 1: until then, why not just hustle and get it done.
Speaker 1: And so you know, the first one again, that was
Speaker 1: really aggressive, right, I really it wasn't as bad as
Speaker 1: people thought. Most days were totally fine. There were a
Speaker 1: couple of nights where it was rough, but um, that
Speaker 1: was kind of like I just knew. It was like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is one year. It's one year. And so you know,
Speaker 1: if you ever read the read the book, or you
Speaker 1: know the comfort continuum, I was like, you know, the
Speaker 1: trade off, it's comfort and profit. I was very little comfort,
Speaker 1: very high profit. But when you have next to nothing, right,
Speaker 1: like you said in the beginning of the show, I
Speaker 1: had negative thirty net worth and so I had nothing.
Speaker 1: So I need to make the return on investment that
Speaker 1: I do have really really high so that I can
Speaker 1: get there faster. And then as you build up your
Speaker 1: nest egg, you need a smaller return to achieve the
Speaker 1: same amount of passive income. And so I'm okay taking
Speaker 1: a smaller return being less profitable, but more comfortable because
Speaker 1: you know, I start valuing having my own room, eventually
Speaker 1: having my own place. And now we have, like, you know,
Speaker 1: our fully owned place with our own yard and everything.
Speaker 1: And so it don't get me wrong, We're still gonna
Speaker 1: house act that million dollar home. We're gonna probably rent
Speaker 1: out the basement and put some tiny houses on the backyard,
Speaker 1: but like very nice. You know, it's at least something
Speaker 1: that we enjoy and and will have a really pretty
Speaker 1: space for us. Yeah. Well, so you know, kind of
Speaker 1: as we're at this end of the spectrum, right, you're
Speaker 1: on the profit profitability end of the spectrum. A lot
Speaker 1: of times you're dealing with roommates. And you know, we've
Speaker 1: talked on the show before about screening for tenants. How
Speaker 1: does this change the equation? Is it a similar process
Speaker 1: or is it different when you are screening roommates. So
Speaker 1: when you're screening roommates. Um, really, you need to look
Speaker 1: for a background. You need to do a background check
Speaker 1: in the credit check. I like to use a company
Speaker 1: called a rent Ready and rent Ready. Basically you can
Speaker 1: send your prospective tenants and application. You know, they put
Speaker 1: in their social Security number and there whatever, and they'll
Speaker 1: pull a background check and a C check on that.
Speaker 1: So as long as they meet your criteria, there you're good.
Speaker 1: You can then call and ask for employer references for
Speaker 1: previous landlord references to make sure that they're actually at
Speaker 1: their job and to make sure that they you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't cause trouble for previous landlords. You know, you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna meet them to show them the house. You
Speaker 1: can get a pretty good feeling for who they are there,
Speaker 1: and so they kind of check all your boxes. Then
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I want to live with you, or
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work out. Yeah, And I appreciate that
Speaker 1: you do all those things because, honestly, Matt, and I've
Speaker 1: said this many times on the show before, that's where
Speaker 1: so many landlords fall flat on their face. They do
Speaker 1: so many things well and right, and then they skip
Speaker 1: out on the on the screening process. They don't do
Speaker 1: a thorough job, and they don't call the previous and lords.
Speaker 1: They don't verify employment. Uh, they're they're they're not checking
Speaker 1: the credit score. And if you don't do all of
Speaker 1: those things, then the chances that you're going to get
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't pay just increase exponentially. Let's talk Craig
Speaker 1: about your next house acts. You have the duplex, living
Speaker 1: in the living room, essentially like two househacks in one,
Speaker 1: and then you've got enough cash to to purchase your
Speaker 1: next property. Where did you go from there? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I got a little bit smarter. I bought a five bedroom,
Speaker 1: two bathroom house a little outside the city, probably like
Speaker 1: seven miles north of Denver, but still right along the highway.
Speaker 1: You can get to downtown Denver in ten fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: And so that one I bought, and I lived in
Speaker 1: one bedroom and rented out the other bedrooms, right, And
Speaker 1: so I think that's kind of you know, and I
Speaker 1: talked about a lot about that in the book, and
Speaker 1: so I think that's where the rent by the room
Speaker 1: model got pretty popular. And that's probably my my recommended method,
Speaker 1: because honestly, I actually made more on that from a
Speaker 1: casual perspective, and it was a lot more comfortable because
Speaker 1: I had my own bedroom with like door and a
Speaker 1: closet and a window and and all those great things
Speaker 1: that you'd expect in the bedroom, not just cardboard and
Speaker 1: a curtain, a partition like you're in a hospital wing
Speaker 1: or something that the Charlie Munger approach to building buildings
Speaker 1: to where windows are not a priority exactly. Well, Greig, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you kind of hinted at it, but you know,
Speaker 1: in your book you talk about six different house acking
Speaker 1: strategies that you share, and you know, it's it's nice
Speaker 1: to know that there isn't just one way to do it.
Speaker 1: There are like a few different flavors. And so what
Speaker 1: are some of the different, you know, some of your
Speaker 1: favorite house acking strategies that folks can implement. You actually
Speaker 1: just kind of hinted at one of them or at
Speaker 1: one end of the spectrum talking about the trailer in
Speaker 1: the yard thing, But that is actually one of the
Speaker 1: approaches you talk about. Yeah, I mean I know plenty
Speaker 1: of people that have done that. I know it's very
Speaker 1: common amongst like rock climbers and kind of van life
Speaker 1: for people they're like, well, I do this anyway, So
Speaker 1: why not buy a house and rented out? And so
Speaker 1: that's kind of one end of the spectrum, right, that's
Speaker 1: like the profit of ability side of the spectrum. The
Speaker 1: other side is the comfort ability. Now, this is what
Speaker 1: I recommend families, and you know people that are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to live with people do right, So
Speaker 1: you're you're at the utmost comfort side. It's still better
Speaker 1: than not doing it at all, but you just won't
Speaker 1: profit as much. So you can buy a house with
Speaker 1: you know, the house of your dreams basically right like
Speaker 1: you name it. You've got the Florida glass ceiling windows,
Speaker 1: the pool in the back, whatever, whatever you need. But
Speaker 1: maybe you have like an additional dwelling unit in the
Speaker 1: back right where you can rent out that one bed,
Speaker 1: one bath or two bed, one bath a d U
Speaker 1: and you can rent that on Airbnb. That brings in
Speaker 1: you know, maybe that covers half your mortgage. So instead
Speaker 1: of paying three thousand dollars a month for your mortgage,
Speaker 1: you're paying a month. That's still a massive savings and
Speaker 1: you still come out very far ahead. You know. Another way,
Speaker 1: if you can't find a house with an a d U,
Speaker 1: which because those are a little bit uncommon. Maybe you
Speaker 1: can find a house that you can section off, Maybe
Speaker 1: you can section off the basement and you rent out
Speaker 1: the basement on Airbnb. That brings in. You know, that's
Speaker 1: what we're kind of doing now. Uh. You know, buy
Speaker 1: mortgagees three thousand dollars a month and we're making up
Speaker 1: we're you know, going to make about three thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a month in Airbnb. So I'm living on the top floor,
Speaker 1: three bed, two bath, me and my fiancee. You know,
Speaker 1: we're living basically for free in a great area. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's a win win all around. So basically
Speaker 1: you're saying, like there's a spectrum and uh and and
Speaker 1: almost everybody you think can get in on at one
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum or somewhere in the middle based
Speaker 1: on kind of their desire for privacy and profitability. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, Greig, because that I think for me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was willing to do the roommate model, do the
Speaker 1: duplex model, and now that I've got like three kids.
Speaker 1: We even't did the duplex model with a with a
Speaker 1: tenant in the back for years while we had kids.
Speaker 1: But now we've got three kids and we're like, now,
Speaker 1: we don't want to mess with that, but we would
Speaker 1: totally do the a du thing. And so I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: as like your needs change as your life changes, Like
Speaker 1: there's there's something on that spectrum for everybody. Uh, if
Speaker 1: you care about like saving money and potentially living for free,
Speaker 1: right for sure? Yeah, And again it's your largest expense.
Speaker 1: So I think if you can if you can knock
Speaker 1: a signific can amount off of that, you can have
Speaker 1: all the coffees you want, right and like you know,
Speaker 1: if you can buy the organic protace, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Just like my thing is like keep the housing and
Speaker 1: transportation costs low and the rest of your legal take
Speaker 1: care of itself. Yeah, yeah, well, Craig, I want to
Speaker 1: kind of get specific to about some numbers when it
Speaker 1: comes to maintaining a property. Oftentimes you hear like put
Speaker 1: one percent of the of the value of the home
Speaker 1: towards maintenance and repair. With these maybe shorter term rentals,
Speaker 1: whether they're on Airbnb or just with when you're cycling
Speaker 1: three more, folks, I can imagine that there's going to
Speaker 1: be potentially more damage to a property. Do you change
Speaker 1: the amount of money that you set aside to handle
Speaker 1: those repairs. It's funny, actually the short term rentals are
Speaker 1: less they're less changing. You know, I was going to
Speaker 1: ask that because I found that it never got super dirty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whenever someone is only there for just like a day
Speaker 1: or two. Uh, it never gets super grimy in there, right, exactly,
Speaker 1: Cleaners coming in two or three times a week. They're
Speaker 1: probably not using the appliances and stuff because they're probably
Speaker 1: going out to eat. They're hardly ever, they're because who
Speaker 1: comes to a house just just to stay in the airbnb? Right?
Speaker 1: Who comes to a city just to stay in the airbnb?
Speaker 1: And so you find that there's actually not a lot
Speaker 1: of damage done. I mean maybe they like knock a
Speaker 1: suitcase into the corner and there's a chip here and there,
Speaker 1: but you know, those are easy enough to fix. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's the long term tenants that have their you know,
Speaker 1: their curry sitting in the pot that starts to make
Speaker 1: the walls turn orange or whatever is really the damaging stuff. Gotcha. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, we got a few more questions to
Speaker 1: get to include. We want to talk about like where
Speaker 1: do you go location wise to get the most successful
Speaker 1: house ACKs? Will We'll get to that question and some
Speaker 1: others for you right after this break. All right, we're
Speaker 1: back again. We're talking with Craig curl Op about house
Speaker 1: acking and like Joel alluded to before the break, Craig,
Speaker 1: you know, real estate in general, it's all about location
Speaker 1: and when it comes to house acking, like how do
Speaker 1: is what part of the country you live in impact
Speaker 1: your ability to successfully house hack. You mentioned how you
Speaker 1: had that smaller duplex there in the city, but you
Speaker 1: found it to be more profitable further out of the city.
Speaker 1: Is there a dynamic that folks you keep in mind
Speaker 1: when it comes to house hacking and a more suburban
Speaker 1: area versus a more urban environment for sure. So so
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a trade off, right I say
Speaker 1: that property didn't cash flow me that well, Um, but
Speaker 1: you know a few years later it really does. It
Speaker 1: cash flows and you four a thousand dollars a month,
Speaker 1: And because it's in such a great area, it's also
Speaker 1: appreciated by far the most out of any property. So
Speaker 1: appreciation is how you really get rich in real estate.
Speaker 1: So if that's kind of your goal, like from a
Speaker 1: net worth perspective, Um, you know they're being in the
Speaker 1: city is okay, But you just have to know what
Speaker 1: you're getting into, right, Like, if you're in San Diego
Speaker 1: or l A or something like that, Like it's gonna
Speaker 1: be hard to you know, get a property that's gonna
Speaker 1: cash on a thousand dollars a month, but it's gonna
Speaker 1: appreciate probably a couple hundred grand next year. Right, So, um,
Speaker 1: there's that trade off that you need to think about.
Speaker 1: One thing that I really like are kind of these
Speaker 1: like secondary tier cities, right, Like think about Denver, right,
Speaker 1: you definitely would not put that in the same ballpark
Speaker 1: as l A, San Diego, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, New York, right,
Speaker 1: Like those are cities of their own. But like think
Speaker 1: about like a Denver or a Seattle or in Austin word,
Speaker 1: like the average person can pretty much still buy a
Speaker 1: home in these cities, and especially in the suburbs. And
Speaker 1: so getting out into the suburbs, right and some people
Speaker 1: want to want to live acquired for life. And there's
Speaker 1: they're bigger, you know, they're bigger homes, there's more bedrooms
Speaker 1: that you can potentially rent out, there's a yard for
Speaker 1: the dog, and so being out in the suburbs in
Speaker 1: growing cities is really good because as that city grows, right,
Speaker 1: it's going to grow from the city of the center
Speaker 1: the city center outward and so eventually you know your
Speaker 1: housing is going to appreciate quite a bit. So one
Speaker 1: of the things you mentioned too was being close to
Speaker 1: work and and you know prior you prioritize biking, which
Speaker 1: we're with you on that is that do you like
Speaker 1: when it comes to infrastructure and specific location in a
Speaker 1: city beyond just the like suburbs versus like interior of
Speaker 1: the city debate, like what else are you looking for?
Speaker 1: What other amenities nearby? Are you saying? Like that's going
Speaker 1: to make this house hack more successful than maybe another one.
Speaker 1: So if you can get somewhere close to public transportation,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty big bonus. And it also depends on
Speaker 1: what city you're in, right, Um, I know Denver is
Speaker 1: really not huge and their public transportation, but it's still
Speaker 1: like a nice little perk, right if you can kind
Speaker 1: of walk or a short ride or maybe even a
Speaker 1: bike ride to restaurants and um in bars, that's superplus.
Speaker 1: My first three house ACKs, I really wanted to be
Speaker 1: close to bike paths because I like to bike to work,
Speaker 1: and so in biking on the bike path is a
Speaker 1: lot more pleasant than biking on the streets and stopping
Speaker 1: at every red light and whatnot, So that was kind
Speaker 1: of a priority for me. But again, like I would say,
Speaker 1: most people probably aren't riding their bikes to work, and
Speaker 1: it was just like a thing for me, So I
Speaker 1: could also cut down on my transportation costs. Right yeah,
Speaker 1: and again that's the second largest line item on our
Speaker 1: monthly budgets. Right, yeah, you're killing two birds with one
Speaker 1: stone by being on the bike path in that duplex. So, Craig,
Speaker 1: you know, let's talk about debt. Let's talk about leverage
Speaker 1: a little bit. Obviously, you believe that it can be
Speaker 1: used well, right, it can be powerful in helping folks
Speaker 1: to accelerate their wealth building potential, But you can also
Speaker 1: get in over your head with too much leverage. Are
Speaker 1: you worried about folks who might be taking things too
Speaker 1: far and over extending themselves. I'm not worried about anyone
Speaker 1: who who educates himself, anyone who's listening to this podcast,
Speaker 1: anyone who's actually, you know, wisely buying properties, right, Like
Speaker 1: I would be scared if someone was over leveraging a
Speaker 1: property that they wouldn't be able to cash flow, right,
Speaker 1: But like as long like the name of the game
Speaker 1: is like can you service your mortgages if the market
Speaker 1: were to decline? And so if you can, then you
Speaker 1: won't be over leveraged, right, I mean I've got so
Speaker 1: much debt, right, but they're all mortgages. It's probably like
Speaker 1: three or four million dollars worth of debt, which may
Speaker 1: scare a lot of people. But I don't pay it off, right,
Speaker 1: tenants do. And so you know, if all my tenants
Speaker 1: were to move out, then you know, then that would
Speaker 1: be a problem. But like the odds of that happening
Speaker 1: are just so low, right, and so you have to
Speaker 1: like play your odds wisely. So, so what numbers are
Speaker 1: you crunching than Craig, Like, as you're looking at a
Speaker 1: property and you're saying, like, what are the specific numbers
Speaker 1: that you're looking at to say, yes, this one works, yes,
Speaker 1: this one doesn't. That's definitely one I want to buy
Speaker 1: and invest in because I think it's gonna make sense.
Speaker 1: And especially when you're talking about different ways of making money,
Speaker 1: whether it's an airbnb, right, Uh, that's that's a different way,
Speaker 1: potentially more lucrative but there's like a little more risk
Speaker 1: reward there versus like a long term lease on a property, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what numbers are you running and how are you figuring
Speaker 1: out whether this is like going to be profitable for you,
Speaker 1: like in the short term and in the long term
Speaker 1: for sure? Yeah, I love that question. So the first
Speaker 1: thing you want to do is obviously talk to a
Speaker 1: lender and figure out what your monthly payment will be
Speaker 1: because everyone's interest rate will be different all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So what's your principal interest, taxes, insurance in your p
Speaker 1: m I every single month? Right? And so you know
Speaker 1: those are physics fixed expenses that you need to pay
Speaker 1: each month. And then you go to you know, rent
Speaker 1: Dometer or Zilla or whatever when you look at comps
Speaker 1: and you figure out, okay, like what can this place
Speaker 1: rent for? Now? If you're in a city like in Denver,
Speaker 1: You're you're hardly ever going to find like a single
Speaker 1: family house that can rent out as a single family
Speaker 1: the house and totally cash flow to the way you
Speaker 1: wanted to be. But like I look for, can I
Speaker 1: split this single family house up into two units? Right?
Speaker 1: Like it does the layout easily accommodate that? And if
Speaker 1: it does. I'm like, okay, well I can get a
Speaker 1: lot more if I split this up. And so I
Speaker 1: like to show I like to make a thousand dollars
Speaker 1: over my mortgage in rent without me living there. So um,
Speaker 1: and how that looks is just you know, a thousand
Speaker 1: words over the mortgage. That'll be enough for me to
Speaker 1: cover any vacancy, any repairs, any maintenance, all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. And that's just kind of my number. Different
Speaker 1: things work for different people. My most recent purchase, you know,
Speaker 1: our mortgages three thousand, we expect that we could rent
Speaker 1: out if we didn't do Airbnb. We expect we can
Speaker 1: rent the top out and we can rent the bottom
Speaker 1: out for I think like eighteen hundred or so. So
Speaker 1: that's about four thousand dollars or three thousand dollar mortgage,
Speaker 1: Like it kind of pencils out on Airbnb. However, right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be able to rent out the bottom for
Speaker 1: even more. And so like I'm so, I have got
Speaker 1: multiple strategies that can get me to that thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: you know, and in the thousand dollars is just my number, right,
Speaker 1: you might be comfortable with five hundred and and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that would be a bad deal. I would
Speaker 1: say it's it's more important to act quicker than it
Speaker 1: is to like make sure that your number is exactly
Speaker 1: pencil out when it comes to hot secking, And you
Speaker 1: probably want to be a little conservative when you're running
Speaker 1: these numbers two, Right, you don't want to assume that
Speaker 1: if you put it on Airbnb, that it's rented out
Speaker 1: twenty eight nights out of the month. You might want
Speaker 1: to assume that it's gonna be renting out for seventeen
Speaker 1: or eighteen nights out of the month, and just make
Speaker 1: sure that you're not like over assuming the income that
Speaker 1: that property can provide. Yeah, I would say you don't
Speaker 1: want to be over conservative, but you also don't want
Speaker 1: to be so conservative that you're scared and you don't
Speaker 1: take action. Because with house hacking, it's it's more like
Speaker 1: any other type of real estate investing. Yeah, you want
Speaker 1: to get like the best deal, but when your house hacking,
Speaker 1: it's all about the timer, right, Like, so your timer
Speaker 1: doesn't start until you close on that first deal, and
Speaker 1: then you can buy the second one third, one fourth
Speaker 1: one and that's where the power comes in. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna get that rich off one house. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: get that much passive income up one house, and so
Speaker 1: you can get a killer deal and you may makes
Speaker 1: of cash flow instead of a thousand dollars a month
Speaker 1: cash flow. But I'd rather have two houses making a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars each basically in like thirteen months than having
Speaker 1: two houses making three thousand dollars in two years. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is one of those instances where for you having
Speaker 1: it be pretty damn good is going to be better, uh,
Speaker 1: multiple times than having perfection staring you in the face. Right,
Speaker 1: exactly right. So Craig, you know, like we've talked about
Speaker 1: the passive income obviously that's one of the benefits of
Speaker 1: house hacking, but you know you're not a c p A.
Speaker 1: But you're right about the tax benefits as well. When
Speaker 1: it comes to investing in real estate. What are the
Speaker 1: top tax perks of house hacking? So the biggest one
Speaker 1: is that you can write off a lot of the
Speaker 1: things in your house that you wouldn't typically write off,
Speaker 1: think like toilet paper, dish soap plates, bowls, forks, nis,
Speaker 1: especially if you leave them with your house when you leave, right,
Speaker 1: So it's it's housemade items. Also, the one of the
Speaker 1: biggest things is depreciation. Depreciation is probably the biggest thing,
Speaker 1: the biggest tax right off that you get, right, And
Speaker 1: so the I R S says that your house will
Speaker 1: depreciate to a zero dollar value over twenty seven and
Speaker 1: a half years, so they allow you to take that reduction.
Speaker 1: You know, let's say it's a five thousand dollar house.
Speaker 1: You divide up by twenty seven and a half and
Speaker 1: whatever that number is, you can take that as a
Speaker 1: deduction on your taxes year over year over year for
Speaker 1: the next twenty seven and a half years. Right, And
Speaker 1: so let's say you make I don't know, twenty dollars
Speaker 1: on your rental property, Well, you're acting. Typically you'd be
Speaker 1: taxed on that, like if you made and a job
Speaker 1: to be taxed on it. But because you've got that depreciation,
Speaker 1: it will offset that. And if you end up with
Speaker 1: a negative number, which oftentimes you do in deppreciation, you
Speaker 1: can actually offset that to your regular W two income.
Speaker 1: And so you can actually like let's say you make
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars a year from your job and
Speaker 1: after the depreciation, all that your rental property taxes show
Speaker 1: that you lost twenty dollars you'r. The I R S
Speaker 1: will show that, hey, you actually know you only made
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars this year, so you could potentially lower
Speaker 1: your tax brackets or lower percentage tax as well as
Speaker 1: the amount you're actually tax on. And so that you know,
Speaker 1: in itself is super powerful. And that's how you see
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are like really rich, uh,
Speaker 1: don't pay any taxes because they buy these massive buildings
Speaker 1: and take a massive depreciation expenses on them. There you
Speaker 1: go a little tax hack in addition to the house hack,
Speaker 1: a little two hacks in one. But I'm not an
Speaker 1: account so right now, but it's true. It's true. I
Speaker 1: mean that is That is definitely one of the things
Speaker 1: about real estate investing. It it can be helpful from
Speaker 1: a tax perspective. Even though your house isn't necessarily depreciating,
Speaker 1: the I R S says that it is, and that
Speaker 1: helps you out when it comes to your bottom line. Um, craig,
Speaker 1: just final thoughts, what else do do people need to
Speaker 1: know about house hacking that we didn't cover? Do you
Speaker 1: have any parting words of wisdom for somebody who's like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm intrigued and I feel like, obviously it's done.
Speaker 1: It's been great for Craig and they've they've heard Matt
Speaker 1: and I stories over the years about how real estate
Speaker 1: investing has been helpful. Obviously we have not house hacked
Speaker 1: to the degree that you have. But yeah, what are
Speaker 1: what are the final things that you would say to
Speaker 1: them at the end of this episode. I would say,
Speaker 1: make sure you know. I would say you need to
Speaker 1: take action. And one thing that will make your life
Speaker 1: a lot easier is finding a team that knows what
Speaker 1: you're doing. So, you know, finding an investor, friendly realtor,
Speaker 1: finding someone that has house acts of their own. Finding
Speaker 1: someone that invests on their own will allow you, you know,
Speaker 1: they'll be able to help you, you know, figure out
Speaker 1: what house works, what house does it. They'll be able
Speaker 1: to help you. They probably have a whole list of
Speaker 1: vendors of contractors and stuff they work with. They have
Speaker 1: lenders that understand house hacking can help you qualify for
Speaker 1: the second house. So just having a team in a
Speaker 1: community that knows what you're doing will beach mendestly helpful.
Speaker 1: And so if there's one thing you do, I would
Speaker 1: recommend doing that nice And of course that is what
Speaker 1: you do because you are a realtor and that's something
Speaker 1: that I know that you do for your clients. There, Craig,
Speaker 1: But man, we really appreciate you coming on the show.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you talking about not only your personal journey
Speaker 1: with house hacking, but sharing how it is that others
Speaker 1: out there, like honestly, wherever they are in life, like
Speaker 1: whatever their family status, there are different ways that you
Speaker 1: can house hack yourself. And so, uh, yeah, where can
Speaker 1: listeners learn more about you and what you're up to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we have a podcast of our own. It's called
Speaker 1: invest to five or actually we're rebranding to invest to five,
Speaker 1: but it's also called the five Team Podcast. So search
Speaker 1: either one of those and you'll you'll se you'll find us,
Speaker 1: and also on Instagram and TikTok I am at the
Speaker 1: five Guy. Awesome, Well, Craig will link to all that
Speaker 1: stuff in the show notes. Hey, we really really appreciate
Speaker 1: you joining us today. I appreciate you guys having me on.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. All right, what an information laden episode.
Speaker 1: I feel like we just had. We had a lot
Speaker 1: of questions for Craig and he brought the answers. We
Speaker 1: were able to talk through just a ton of the
Speaker 1: different things that folks need to keep in mind as
Speaker 1: they are thinking through First of all, just you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about their homes differently, right, Like it's almost like
Speaker 1: this mindset shift that needs to take place in order
Speaker 1: for you to think about your first especially your first home,
Speaker 1: not as a place that you're gonna be living out
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life, but thinking about it
Speaker 1: like like a stepping stone. They're building blocks that are
Speaker 1: going to get you closer to financial freedom. But that
Speaker 1: wasn't my big takeaway, by the way, But what what
Speaker 1: was your what was your big your key takeaway for
Speaker 1: this episode? Yeah, this is definitely a topic near and
Speaker 1: dear to both of our hearts as real estate investors
Speaker 1: and has people who have seen just the reality that
Speaker 1: investing in real estate and house hacking can dramatically lower
Speaker 1: your housing expenses, can just make you more nimble, more flexible,
Speaker 1: provide more financial freedom. And so yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: we we know this, We've talked about it, but let's
Speaker 1: talk to the let's talk to the expert, the guy
Speaker 1: who wrote the book on it, and and Craig is
Speaker 1: definitely that and so yeah, I don't I think My
Speaker 1: big takeaway was just the spectrum. I think sometimes when
Speaker 1: we talk about house hacking, it sounds like maybe some
Speaker 1: of our listener might too not they might be like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to own a quadplex and where they're like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to share up my bedroom
Speaker 1: exactly if they don't want to do it. Craig did,
Speaker 1: and I certainly don't want to do it. Craig did,
Speaker 1: but I'm proud of him for doing it. Is live
Speaker 1: in the living room while you're running out the bedroom.
Speaker 1: But he had a time frame in mind, he had
Speaker 1: a mission in mind, and he knew, hey, I can
Speaker 1: put up this with this for a short time because
Speaker 1: it's going to provide so many opportunities, so much freedom
Speaker 1: for me, not too far in the future. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I like that there's a spectrum though,
Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of our listeners they
Speaker 1: might say, you know what, I can house hack. I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was possible before. I thought that it
Speaker 1: was gonna be like too cumbersome, too intrusive on my lifestyle.
Speaker 1: But I do think that there is a strategy for everyone,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think that's just helpful to note and
Speaker 1: he definitely goes into more detail in his book about
Speaker 1: how you can accomplish those strategies and which ones are
Speaker 1: best for which kinds of folks, depending on what state
Speaker 1: of life they're in. But yeah, that's just as helpful knowledge. Yeah. Also,
Speaker 1: I'm just so glad that we got to talk about
Speaker 1: his mustache at the beginning of the episode. I feel
Speaker 1: like you and I we need more friends in our
Speaker 1: lives that have a nice, burly mustache. But my my
Speaker 1: big takeaway, I wanted to highlight the fact that Craig
Speaker 1: was talking about the V A loan or the U.
Speaker 1: S D A loan, and those are mortgages that only
Speaker 1: require zero or five percent down. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about that because it's not something that we typically talk
Speaker 1: about here on the show. Ideally, yes, you know you
Speaker 1: are able to put down when you're purchasing at home,
Speaker 1: when you are purchasing an investment property, but I do
Speaker 1: think that this is a sound strategy, especially if your
Speaker 1: house hacking right. And so if you find the right property,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't have all the money set aside, and
Speaker 1: like you said, uh, it can be a little more
Speaker 1: difficult to win a bid right to actually snag a
Speaker 1: property with some of these loans because they may not
Speaker 1: be as competitive in a really hot market. But if
Speaker 1: that is the only option you have, and specifically, if
Speaker 1: you find the right house and you can see how
Speaker 1: you are going to be able to positively cash flow.
Speaker 1: If you can see that right out of the gate
Speaker 1: that you're going to be making a thousand dollars on
Speaker 1: a specific property, what gives you a ton of margin,
Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to if this was a house
Speaker 1: for yourself, that where you weren't on a house hack
Speaker 1: and you are just kind of maxing out what you
Speaker 1: could afford and there is no income potential. Right. There's
Speaker 1: a big difference between purchasing a home with zero sent
Speaker 1: down for a lifestyle versus an investment where you're cash
Speaker 1: flowing a ton of money every single month. And so
Speaker 1: you know, that's not a strategy that you and I
Speaker 1: often talk about, but it is worth noting that that's
Speaker 1: an option that's available out there. Yeah, I agree, man,
Speaker 1: I think those are two completely different circumstances. If you're
Speaker 1: buying a house to live in that you don't plan
Speaker 1: on house hacking, that you don't plan on making any
Speaker 1: income from, Like you need to do the hard work
Speaker 1: and say about the down payment, and I think that's lifestyle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: ideally even for house hackers like you would have more
Speaker 1: than three to five percent to put down. You would
Speaker 1: have ten to twenty maybe even to put down. But
Speaker 1: if you don't, it is still a different calculation because
Speaker 1: of the fact that you can instantly be making money
Speaker 1: from that property. But you want to make sure you're
Speaker 1: running the numbers, like Craig mentioned, you want to make
Speaker 1: sure it's actually going to be profitable even if you
Speaker 1: don't come to the table with that percent down that
Speaker 1: we find preferable. Totally. Alright, man, let's go ahead, shift gears.
Speaker 1: Let's get to the beer that you and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: on this episode. This was a beer by Reformation Brewery
Speaker 1: and it's called Jogger the Juicy Loggers. Then, what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this beer? This is a local one
Speaker 1: by the way to us here in Atlanta. Ye, just
Speaker 1: up the road up in Woodstock, Georgia. And yeah, this
Speaker 1: was I would say light and hoppy at the same time.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like a pale ale mixed with
Speaker 1: a pilsner, and I kind of I kind of liked it,
Speaker 1: like it's not a style that I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever had. What's anything that's been called a juicy logger
Speaker 1: necessarily usually I don't know, like loggers are usually a
Speaker 1: little more dry, fewer hoppy notes than this. But this
Speaker 1: is kind of running that middle ground between that the
Speaker 1: I p A or a pale and a pilsner. And
Speaker 1: it was nice. It was like light and refreshing and
Speaker 1: I like hops, So yeah, I kind of it kind
Speaker 1: of almost like a session I p A or something. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe it is. And they just called it juicy logger,
Speaker 1: but I totally agree. This is a really good one,
Speaker 1: that kind of beer that you could crush after going
Speaker 1: for a run. Perhaps it's got a pretty low A
Speaker 1: b v H to boot And so yeah, I'm glad
Speaker 1: you and I got to enjoy these for this episode.
Speaker 1: While we talked with Craig, curl up, but Joel, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be it for this episode. We'll make sure to
Speaker 1: link to any resources we may have mentioned during this episode,
Speaker 1: and you can find that up on the website at
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. No doubt, So start saving
Speaker 1: your money for that next home purchase. In that next
Speaker 1: home purchase, let's hope it actually makes you money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, that's gonna do it for this episode until
Speaker 1: next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,