WEBVTT - Hack Your Home & Live For Free with Craig Curelop #445 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.519 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.320 and today we're talking how to hack your home and 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:27.160 live for free with Craig curl Up. Yeah, today we're 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.520 talking with our friend Craig curlp. And back in seventeen, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.720 Craig had a negative net worth of thirty thousand dollars, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.640 but by implementing different tactics to earn more, to spend less, 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.600 and then invest the difference, he was able to reach 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.320 financial independence two years later in twenty nineteen. And house 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.960 hacking it played a major role in Craig's rapid assent 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.880 towards financial freedom, and that is what we're talking about today. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.240 Craig's written the book The House Hacking Strategy, and we're 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.200 gonna cover all of the ins and outs of house 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.960 hacking and how it is that it changed Craig's life. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.880 We're going to discuss the different house hacking methods because 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:04.920 there are a variety of options that you can go 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.480 with um and some of that actually too depends on 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.039 your personal situation, like if you're single, if you have 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.280 a family, and so we're going to cover what you 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.639 need to know before you start house hacking as well. Craig, 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.240 thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Matt 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.000 and Joel, thank you so much for having me on. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.240 Thanks for the great introduction. And yeah, it was amazing 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.600 to meet you guys a couple of months back. That's right. Yeah, 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.720 we got to hang out in person, Craig, which was 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.839 a true honor, a pleasure. And yeah, we love meeting 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:31.920 our fellow money nerd friends. We got to see his 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.679 mustache in real life, which was always you'll be able 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.880 to touch it? Maybe, oh, impress empty there. That's um, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.759 that's a very very kind of you to offer, Craig. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:48.440 The first question, right, Yeah, the first question we ask 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.000 everyone who comes on the show, though, is you know, 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:52.920 Matt and I, everybody knows that we like a good 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.240 craft beer and we don't mind spending money on it. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.040 It's something that we splurge onn while we're also trying 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.240 to save and invest well for the future. So yeah, 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.400 for you, do you have a craft your equivalent, something 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.800 that you exploge on in the here and now while 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.160 also house hacking and saving your money. So this might 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.040 be a cheap, but tell me and if it is, 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.600 I'll make him another one. But I splurge on having 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.280 people like do things for me if that makes you know, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.320 So it's like, you know, an example is I had 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.560 this table that I had to put together, and I 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.920 just kept dreading it and dreading it, and so I 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.840 just called a task Rabbit and for thirty dollars, they 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.720 came and put together at the table in like an hour, 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:34.440 and I was like, that is the best of the 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.400 dollars I've ever spent. And like, you know, those lingering 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.160 tasks that like you gotta get it done, you gotta 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.320 get done because like you never find times to do it. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:43.960 I just have been hiring those out and they're usually 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.119 like thirty to fifty dollars to get done. I feel 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.880 like that's a splurge. And it's just so amazing to 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:50.720 have things that you don't want to do already done 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.440 for you, especially when you are able bodied and you know, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.800 like you're like I could do that, I just don't 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.440 want to. Yeah, I think if that is a splurge 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.200 and occasionally a worthwhile one. So yeah, I like definitely 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:02.840 a splourish, But dude, for me, I think it would 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.240 be so difficult because I get a sense of satisfaction 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.160 when I'm able to accomplish, you know, even if it's 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.000 a menial task where something that's more where the physical 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:16.520 labors involved, that sense of accomplishment like yeah, I like 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.560 not doing it and having it get done and being like, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.400 holy crap, it's done. Well. Someday, Craig, you're gonna hire 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.919 one of those tasks out and it's gonna be Matt 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:24.840 who's the task grab it that actually shows up because 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.360 it makes me so happy. If it makes you so 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.920 happy putting the other furniture, like dropping random things off 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.160 at random places, it does for myself. I'll say that 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.040 maybe maybe less uh anomaly for everybody else who's looking 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.480 to hire out there. But you know, Craig, let's kind 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.040 of dive into this. You've called yourself an average guy 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:45.440 just doing average things. You've said that motivation is your 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.240 distinguishing factor, and so you know, question we have for you, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.520 like do you really think that basically anyone can incorporate 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.160 the strategies that you're using to build wealth? Yeah? I 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.080 mean I think anybody, anybody on this earth can do 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.160 what I've done. Right. Um, And as you start are 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.640 doing things and you start being a little different, is 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.880 when more and more opportunities start to come your way. 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.160 And so people may say, oh, yeah, well, like you 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.360 wrote a book from your pockets. Well it's like, well 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.920 that came like three years into my journey and I 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.560 had written fifty or sixty blog posts for them and 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.560 all that stuff, and so there was an opportunity that 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.480 came right. And so I think that if you start 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.720 doing things a little differently, you'll see more and more 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.760 opportunities pop up. And you know, that's when your life 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.480 really opens up. Okay, all right, I like it. So, yeah, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.320 there's an element of you gotta put in the work, 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.479 and you've got to be motivated to put in the 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.480 work before you're going to see the results. And I 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.680 think sometimes in like the Instagram world we live in, 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.919 we see results on display all the time and we 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.080 don't see like the backstory of what it took to 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.320 actually achieve that. And so yeah, I think that can 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.640 be demotivating for some people, um when it doesn't happen, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.880 success doesn't happen overnight for them. But but let's specifically, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.160 let's talk about house hacking, and can you get us 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.400 a set up, like, how do you define house hacking? 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.040 What does it mean? Yeah? For sure, so house hacking 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.400 is the idea that you purchase a one to four 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.400 unit property with zero to five percent down, so you're 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.840 doing a low percent down purchase on a wonderful unit property. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.520 You need to live in that property for one year 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.760 because that's what allows you to get the low down 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.320 down payment. And while you're living there, you're renting out 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.520 either the other rooms if you're living in a single family, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.240 or you're renting out the other units if you're living 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.800 in a two, three or four unit. That rent that 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.640 you're getting covers your mortgage and you're able to live 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.440 for free, thereby reducing or eliminating what likely is your 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.640 largest expense in housing. So this is obviously something that 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.120 you've done. But why is this? Like it seems like 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.320 this is one of your favorite wealth building tactics, you know. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.839 So so first of all, why is that? And then 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.200 I guess, maybe, yeah, what got you so excited to 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.159 share this with other people? So you know, everyone probably 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.000 listened to this podcast understands financial dependence, right, and that 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.080 that basic formula of hey, once you're passive income exceeds 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.120 your expenses, your financially independent and for me, the quickest 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.120 way to achieve financial independence was to just pick up 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.280 enough rental properties with that rent or passive income exceeds 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.920 my expenses. And with house hacking, you really only need 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.919 such a fraction. You know, you only need three or 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.120 five percent down. Right, So let's say you're gonna buy 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.520 a five hundred thousand dollar house, right, which is a 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.200 fairly expensive house for most of the United States. You're 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.480 gonna put three percent down. That's fifteen thousand, maybe twenty 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.599 dollars after miscellaneous costs. So with twenty dollars, you're able 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.640 to purchase this five hundred thousand dollar asset that's gonna 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.320 pay you, hopefully a thousand dollars a month of passive income. 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.279 It's going to increase in value over time if you 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.800 hold it long enough, you're going to get tax advantages, 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.360 and you're gonna get loan paid down, So your net 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.839 worth increases in four different ways by putting such a 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.919 small amount down, such that your return on investment is 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.000 pretty much over every single time. Like I've done five 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.279 house hacks now, every single one has been a hundred 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.360 percent or more return on investment, and I've helped out 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.800 hundreds and hundreds of people directly get house hacks at 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.720 almost every single time their returns on investment are a 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.720 hundred percent or more. And I just don't know any 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.880 sort of real estate or any sort of investment in 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.920 general that you can consistently achieve one hundred percent returns 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.320 without the risk and without speculation. Okay, Yeah, Matt and 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.400 I we like real estate a lot too, and we 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.840 have participated in various house hacks. I had a renter 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:31.960 in the back of a duplex for a while, and 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.239 actually the first house I bought, I had a roommate 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.120 in that house who paid most of the mortgage, So 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:37.880 I totally get where you're coming from. Matt had an 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.920 Airbnb in this basement, which is now our podcasting studio. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.600 But while you you've just sung the praises, you also 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.440 in the book you do mention the downsides, which I 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.400 appreciate because even as exciting of a prospect this house 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.320 hacking can be for people, it's nice to know all 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.360 the information. So, yeah, what would you say if are 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.280 the worst things about house a house hacking? What are 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.119 the downsides that people need to be aware of before 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.520 they like jump in with both feet. Yeah, so the 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.080 downside is that it is more it is work. You 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.560 have additional responsibility if something breaks in the house. You know, 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.440 if the rooms aren't filled like you're in, there's higher 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.560 risk because your mortgage without any tenants is going to 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.160 be more than your rent probably and so you will 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.080 probably lose in the short term if you don't get tenants. 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:24.400 So you have a little bit of pressure and a 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.760 little bit of responsibility to get that thing filled, to 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.320 make sure your tenants get along, make sure your leases 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.199 look good, make sure you screen your tenants wisely, make 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.800 sure the property is working right, and so there is 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.000 a little bit more work that is involved in the 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.680 short term, right, But the whole idea is that you're 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:44.000 building assets when you're relatively young, so that in five 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.079 to ten years from now you can offload that to 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.320 a property manager. It's a little to no work for 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.720 you and you're just chilling with the passive income. Got it, 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.520 And you know, Craig reo quick I want to talk 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.040 about too. I mean, like Joel mentioned, were in the 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.720 real estates here a little bit in addition to the 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.120 other pursuits that we have, but you specifically zero to 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.680 five percent down. We often talk about down to avoid 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.960 p M. I can you share with our listeners how 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.320 they can go about getting a property with even zero 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.200 dollars down. Yeah, so zero dollars down that is typically 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.880 reserved for military folks. The v A loan allows you 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.040 to purchase a property with zero percent down. Now, the downside, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.920 so that is the v A loan is a little 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.880 bit harder to get accepted by sellers. So in a 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.120 competitive market, you just might have a little bit of trouble. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.680 But because you're putting zero percent down, you can probably 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.160 afford to go a little bit higher, right because you 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.280 don't have any down payment, So that might be a 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.120 way to counteract that. Another way to get zero percent 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.240 down is what's called the U. S d A loan, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.439 And yes it's the same you know, the same corporation 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.160 or the same entity that grades your beef like U. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.880 S d A graded the opera housing loans, but it's 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.880 more for people in rural areas, so you'll have to 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.080 just look online to see if your area qualifies. But 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.439 if you're anywhere near like a bigger city, you probably 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.600 won't qualify for that. Okay, I go to the same 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.160 place for my stake and from a home loans personally, 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.400 and I love kind of how how you talk about 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.960 real estate in general, you say that a big part 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.679 of the problem is that we're just thinking about housing 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.319 all wrong. Like the way we think about buying homes 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.080 needs like a refresh, because we're looking to basically buy 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.599 the nicest single family home that we can comfortably afford 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.880 into our budget. Like why why is that method, which 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.880 is the traditional method, which is the route that most 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.079 people go, Why is that such a bad idea? Well, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.360 that's such a bad idea because you put yourself in 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.319 a position where if you lose your job, which can 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.800 literally happen tomorrow, or you suddenly stopped liking your job, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.040 your life becomes miserable because you need to work. Right, 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.280 Don't get me wrong, I'm all about owning a home. 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.800 And we're actually under contract for a million dollar forever 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.240 home right now, but that's after seven house acts. Between 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.160 me and my girlfriend. We've got twenty something properties, and 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:56.000 our income from those properties can easily satisfy our mortgage payment. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:00.520 And so you know, it took five plus year of 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.400 of kind of hustle and living in unideal situations to 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.920 live now in our ideal situation, which we're very comfortable, 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:11.000 comfortably able to afford and so I'm not totally against it. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.440 I'm just totally against first home is your forever home 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:14.800 jump right out of the gate and you're paying to 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.840 three tho dollars a month in a mortgage payment. Yeah, 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.680 I think that's a different mentality that a lot of 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.079 especially first time homebuyers, homebuyers need to keep in mind 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.840 as they're starting to look at properties. They I think 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.320 they do have that mindset when they're looking at houses 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.839 for the first time, and they thinking about it more 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.160 as an investment, as a you know, compared to something 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.800 that is just going to be your forever home right 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.559 out of the gate. Is an important thing to keep 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.839 in mind a little bit that sacrifice early on can 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.720 pay off big dividends down the road. Totally. Yeah, yeah, Craig. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.720 So currently the market is really hot right now, you know, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.560 prices are they're up double digits year over year. Do 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.960 you feel that it's possible right now to still find 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.760 an investment property that makes sense, you know, to house hack, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.839 even in this climate. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:00.800 I actually just did a TikTok I went like semi 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:05.000 viral about this exact thing where you know, in everyone works. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.160 By the way, you will never hear me saying congrat 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.320 thank yeah, it's my second one. So I'm like, oh, 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.040 I'm gonna roll. So you know, in seventeen I bought 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.480 my first place and everyone was scared of the market 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.080 was going to crash, and people were like, yeah, I'm 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:23.040 gonna wait, right, every year is the same story, right, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.360 And so the point is it is just like the market, 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.000 you really can't time it. You can't time the real 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.400 estate market either. So if you're just able to buy 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.959 a house every year on the year, and you can 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.200 make sure that it cash flows, then it doesn't matter 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.440 with the market. Dose right, My houses can all lose 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.160 half their value tomorrow and they'll still be cash fling 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.199 me a thousand dollars or so a month. And even 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.679 if rents decrease by they'll still cash for me eight 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.679 dollars a month. So that is like the whole thing is, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.680 if you can hold on and you're not forced to sell, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.880 then nothing will happen. What happened to two thousand eight 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:58.480 was there was a bunch of flippers and a bunch 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.080 of people trying to make a quick buck and that's why, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.800 and they were forced to sell and that's why the prices, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.120 you know, the market crashed. So I don't see there 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.120 being a big crash. What I see is there may 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.599 be a a a crash in some other market I 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.719 don't know, potentially crypto, potentially student loans, student whatever, right, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.360 that may cause the market to go down. And then 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.559 because the market goes down, people will have less liquidity, 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.600 maybe they lose their jobs and whatnot, and so then 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.000 the housing price the housing market will then just kind 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:32.680 of go down a little bit, right, But I don't 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.560 see the big crash because I don't see real estate 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.520 as being like the fundamental flaw of this next crash 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.959 whenever it happens. Yeah, there could be some reverberations because 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.800 of other financial issues in the economy potentially, but but 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.400 still yeah, like because it's a physical place, uh that 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.320 that you own, and people always need a place to live, 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.079 there's a certain element to which you're right, Like rents 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.800 can decrease, but they're not going to go to zero 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.160 and uh, Craig. We want to get into your story though, 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.960 because you just mentioned the fact that you're buying a 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.880 million dollar home now. But we we want to like 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.600 discuss like all the hard work that it took to 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.079 get there, because your story and the specific house hacks 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.240 that you undertook are really interesting. So yeah, we're gonna 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:23.520 ask you all about that right after this break. Alright, 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.120 we'll back to the break. We're talking with Craig Curlap 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.360 about house hacking, and uh, let's let's start way back 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.320 at the beginning. Craig, we want to talk about your 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.080 your first ever Craig and diapers right now, the first 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.160 alice that you purchase. Tell us about your first house ack, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.640 because you're all about living for free, but this one 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.120 didn't get you to that point immediately. Can you tell 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.000 us a little bit about that one. Yeah, So it 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.160 was back in two seventeen UM. I was coming from 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.160 a job that I hated to Denver, right, so kind 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.920 of wipe the slate clean and I pretty much went 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.440 all out right, So I was living. I found a duplex. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.600 It was up down duplex, totally redone like very pretty, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.280 very good looking. But they were both one bed, one 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.400 bathroom apartments and it was a mile and a half 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.400 from the office as to where it worked. So I 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.920 knew I could bike or walk to work pretty easily. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.200 And so what I did was I rented out the 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.040 top and lived in the bottom. However, the rent from 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:22.320 the top didn't quite cover my mortgage fully, so I 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.360 rented out my bedroom on Airbnb and kind of put 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.480 up like a curtain in a room divider with a 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.880 food on in the living room and rented out my bedroom. 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.240 And so that allowed me to you know, live a 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.720 d percent for free and even make like six dollars 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.960 a month on my living What do you call that? 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.000 Like blue collar house hacking? Like that, that's like house 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.680 hacking to it's like furthest possible extent. It seems like, yeah, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.920 I would say maybe one step further is like getting 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.920 a camper and like putting that in the driveway and 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.920 living in the camper. To some people is actually probably 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.040 more desirable because at least you have your own private space. Um, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.480 but I didn't think of that at the time. So 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.960 the living room is kind of you know what I did, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.560 and that's kind of like, oh my god, I would 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.280 never do that. But that whole thing allowed me to, say, 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.480 of another thirty or forty grand in the next year 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.400 so that I can then purchase the next one, right, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.480 So I knew that it was just like a foundational 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.920 approach to it was a building block, yeah, exactly. And 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.640 so it's like, you know, if you're listening to this 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.840 and you're like, then you're single and you don't have 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.560 a family or anything, like you gotta take your situation 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.000 that you're in and make the most of it. And 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.760 the most of that situation is kind of living like 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.200 kind of like a bum right, Like do that for 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.160 a year to save, and then you'll, you know, then 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.560 you can start buying house hack after househack after house hack, 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:40.760 and after four or five house as you'll find yourself, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.880 you know, with a pretty sizable net worth, with a 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.960 good amount of passive income, and then you can start 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.520 doing some more fun things. You can start giving back 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:52.080 in your life. I mean, it becomes easier, you can 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.080 regain some of that privacy. Did you like a deadline 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.240 or an end insight? Because now you're engaged, you're buying 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.320 your own home. This was this was like, you know, 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.360 almost five years ago at this point when you undertook 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.479 like living in the living room of this duplex in 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.440 order to maximize the dollars the cash flow into your life. 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.879 Like did you say, all right, I'm gonna do this, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.639 I'm gonna grin and bear it for six months, nine months, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.840 or a year. Obviously, this wasn't something you wanted to 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.880 do for a decade. This this was, like Matt said, 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:22.720 a building block. How did you know how long you 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.320 were actually going to be willing to Yeah, commit to 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.119 the strategy. Yeah, So ultimately I knew my life would change, right. 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.880 I knew I would it. Some day, I would meet 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.119 somebody it. Some day I'd want to settle down and 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.160 that this was not a forever thing. But I figured 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.760 until then, why not just hustle and get it done. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.480 And so you know, the first one again, that was 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.159 really aggressive, right, I really it wasn't as bad as 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.800 people thought. Most days were totally fine. There were a 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.160 couple of nights where it was rough, but um, that 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.680 was kind of like I just knew. It was like, okay, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.639 this is one year. It's one year. And so you know, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.399 if you ever read the read the book, or you 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.119 know the comfort continuum, I was like, you know, the 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.600 trade off, it's comfort and profit. I was very little comfort, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.879 very high profit. But when you have next to nothing, right, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.159 like you said in the beginning of the show, I 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.679 had negative thirty net worth and so I had nothing. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.320 So I need to make the return on investment that 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.880 I do have really really high so that I can 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.600 get there faster. And then as you build up your 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.320 nest egg, you need a smaller return to achieve the 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.639 same amount of passive income. And so I'm okay taking 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:28.040 a smaller return being less profitable, but more comfortable because 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.840 you know, I start valuing having my own room, eventually 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.639 having my own place. And now we have, like, you know, 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.520 our fully owned place with our own yard and everything. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.800 And so it don't get me wrong, We're still gonna 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.720 house act that million dollar home. We're gonna probably rent 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.840 out the basement and put some tiny houses on the backyard, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.080 but like very nice. You know, it's at least something 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.800 that we enjoy and and will have a really pretty 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.000 space for us. Yeah. Well, so you know, kind of 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.240 as we're at this end of the spectrum, right, you're 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.840 on the profit profitability end of the spectrum. A lot 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.040 of times you're dealing with roommates. And you know, we've 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.560 talked on the show before about screening for tenants. How 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.280 does this change the equation? Is it a similar process 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.159 or is it different when you are screening roommates. So 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.480 when you're screening roommates. Um, really, you need to look 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.520 for a background. You need to do a background check 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.679 in the credit check. I like to use a company 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.920 called a rent Ready and rent Ready. Basically you can 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.520 send your prospective tenants and application. You know, they put 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.080