WEBVTT - Carl Stubner

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftsett's podcast. My guest

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<v Speaker 1>today is Carl Stubner, CEO of the Shelter Music Group. Carl,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the Shelter Music Group?

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<v Speaker 2>Now, that's a good question, Bob. We're still trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure that out. Now. We are a management company that

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<v Speaker 2>started right like two months before COVID's hit, and so

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<v Speaker 2>we've built this company over the last whatever that is,

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<v Speaker 2>three four years. In the first two years was hard

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<v Speaker 2>to keep it going, but I had this attitude that

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<v Speaker 2>in bad times grow faster, you know, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>kept on bringing him managers and signing more bands. And

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<v Speaker 2>we went from fourteen bands to seventy bands and a

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<v Speaker 2>staff of five to a staff of thirty. So that

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<v Speaker 2>is I've been over the last four years.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, let's just go talk me through the transition.

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<v Speaker 1>What you were doing exactly before Shelter, What the vision

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<v Speaker 1>for Shelter was, Why was going to be different?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, as I think, you know, I was at Sanctuary

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of the run, right and then Universal

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<v Speaker 2>bought it and I ran Sanctuary Management for Universal for

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of years until I just had to get out.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It was not the right environment for me, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think they shared my same vision of what a

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<v Speaker 2>management company is and how to survive a management company.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I left and then I kind of did

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<v Speaker 2>some other management company stuff with some other people, but

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<v Speaker 2>I was getting bored and I happened to be out

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<v Speaker 2>on tour with Fleetwood Mac and Hartwick, who was the

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<v Speaker 2>chairman of BMG at the time, came out on the

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<v Speaker 2>tour to say hi to me and check it out,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's witnessed what we did as managers really for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time, real managers, you know. I think we

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<v Speaker 2>playing Boston and he asked, well, how much did the

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<v Speaker 2>band pocket, you know? And I told him the number

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<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, how much did you get? I said,

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<v Speaker 2>I told him the number, and he said, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to be in your business, no risk, just upside, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So I said, all right, well, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>I want to sell my company. I'm not sure even

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<v Speaker 2>if I want to grow it. At that point, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was happy managing Fleetwood Mac's Easy Top and other bands,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I was getting older, and I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe just fade out with those bands and that's enough.

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<v Speaker 2>And so he kept on calling me no, no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't need to sell the company. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>invest in your company, okay, and we'll just investor, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just providing capital to build a new company and do

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat of a roll up. Eventually I said yes, So

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<v Speaker 2>we did that twenty nineteen in November October, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we shook hands. He invested in it, and three months

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<v Speaker 2>later COVID hit. Okay, so business shut down. But my

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing was, you know, in the depression, the Kennedys

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<v Speaker 2>really succeeded. You know, it was like those are the times.

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<v Speaker 2>So there were a lot of managers out there that

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<v Speaker 2>needed support because they were making no money and they

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<v Speaker 2>had great bands, but there was no one working. So

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<v Speaker 2>I went to them and said, hey, why aren't you

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<v Speaker 2>come in and I'll guarantee you money. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>built this and then you know, we thought COVID would

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<v Speaker 2>last six months, a year or whatever, and it just

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<v Speaker 2>kept on going. So I went to Hartwick and I said,

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<v Speaker 2>I am not going to furlough anybody, I'm not dropping anything,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to grow even more. So I need

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<v Speaker 2>more money. And he said, hell yeah, great idea let's

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<v Speaker 2>do it. And so he did that and we kept

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<v Speaker 2>going and going, and then we broke through COVID and

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<v Speaker 2>we had debt because we took money, and we're finally

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<v Speaker 2>at that point where you know, we're a cash positive

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<v Speaker 2>company and uh successful. And it took two years to

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<v Speaker 2>dig out of COVID, but now it's working and we

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<v Speaker 2>have great bands and great managers, and you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing in the beginning was, you know, the only

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<v Speaker 2>reason I really am willing to the only way I'm

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<v Speaker 2>willing to do this heartwik, is that I want to

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<v Speaker 2>make this company like no Oether, a big management company,

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<v Speaker 2>and we don't need to name them. They are what

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<v Speaker 2>they are and they're great, you know. But I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want that. I wanted to go back to my roots

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<v Speaker 2>as a music fan when I was young and build

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<v Speaker 2>a company. And this is a I use this expression

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<v Speaker 2>all the time and with people, but I really had

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<v Speaker 2>this fantasy of doing making a company where music was

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<v Speaker 2>why we were there, not the paycheck, okay, and make

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<v Speaker 2>it like this thing in the early early seventies or

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<v Speaker 2>late nineties of Rolling Stone magazine where they're sitting in

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<v Speaker 2>one room and they all care about one thing, and

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<v Speaker 2>they share ideas. You know, maybe that's not what Rolling

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<v Speaker 2>Stone was, but that was my vision of Rolling Stone,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And so I said the online to it is,

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<v Speaker 2>if I do it that way, we're there for the

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<v Speaker 2>right reason. It's not about the check. It's about the

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<v Speaker 2>artist and finding great artists and doing the decisions or

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<v Speaker 2>making the decisions that are right for the artists, not

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<v Speaker 2>right for the management company. Where at Shelter excuse me, Sanctuary,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a totally different thing. You know, they were

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<v Speaker 2>making deals with managers for what act they had at

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<v Speaker 2>the time. I did deals with managers who I believed

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<v Speaker 2>in and eventually they will succeed or they'll continue succeeding,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's working. So it's a totally different environment. And

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<v Speaker 2>our you know, we are a fraternity of managers, support staff,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, you know, shared services whatever, that really care

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<v Speaker 2>about each other, trade ideas, aren't competitive on who we

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<v Speaker 2>sign realizing one person's been the other, don't take it.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't worries about the company, not the individual. And people

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<v Speaker 2>bought into it, you know, And I'm like, okay, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of the philosophy of the company, if that

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Okay, BMG. What's their ownership position, what's their deal?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the deal's changed since Heartwork left, okay, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>all in this that's something I really don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me put it this way. Are you the

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<v Speaker 1>owner along with BMG or is every manager owner? What

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<v Speaker 1>is the ownership structure?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the owner. I was well heart Will Heartwik was there.

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<v Speaker 2>I was sole owner of the company. Okay, So he

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<v Speaker 2>was lending you the money, lending me the money on

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<v Speaker 2>a return of profits, right, non callable, you know. So,

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<v Speaker 2>and then Thomas Coolsfeldt came in and he had a

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<v Speaker 2>different direction, you know than Hartwork did. So things got

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<v Speaker 2>different and we're talking now, and you know they for them,

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<v Speaker 2>for them relieving me of some of the debt. They

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<v Speaker 2>have an ownership, but I'm a majority owner. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>answer to anyone. It's my company. BMG has no say

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<v Speaker 2>and never have of what we do. Okay, who I sign,

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<v Speaker 2>who I bring in as an employer or a manager?

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's always been me running it with no one

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<v Speaker 2>they answered to. Now that that might be why they

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<v Speaker 2>have a problem with it now, because different chairman, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Okay, what is the deal with the managers traditionally,

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<v Speaker 1>like with most of these, I give you a check

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<v Speaker 1>you aren't it out, and then it's fifty to fifty

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Is that your standard dealers.

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<v Speaker 2>That's just that's those aren't accurate, exactly accurate numbers. It

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<v Speaker 2>all depends on the manager.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, every manager might get a separate deal, a different deal.

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<v Speaker 2>I make it deals directly with the manager. There's not

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<v Speaker 2>there's not a blueprint of what the deal is because

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<v Speaker 2>some people need lesser, some people need more, and some

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<v Speaker 2>people earn more and deserve more or whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's all it's all based on the individual, the

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<v Speaker 2>individual's needs and they're projections when doing the deal, so

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<v Speaker 2>they're you know, different than a lot of management companies.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't charge the managers for office space shared services.

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<v Speaker 2>That's something I from my side to provide a better

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<v Speaker 2>service for the manager in return, and that then extends

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<v Speaker 2>the artist getting better service, whether it's a radio staff

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<v Speaker 2>or asset staff or social media whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's get down to the nitty gritty. You make

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<v Speaker 1>a deal with the manager, and it's basically a percentage

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<v Speaker 1>of net, and NET just has to do with the band.

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<v Speaker 1>And the manager not with shurance services.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so I make a deal. Let's I'll do a hypothetically, right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>ignore the numbers. Okay, but mister manager, I want you

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<v Speaker 2>to come aboard.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you in?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm in, all right? What do you want to

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<v Speaker 2>get as a advance draw whatever it is? What do

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<v Speaker 2>you need? And then what kind of staff do you need? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I need an assistant and myself and I need to

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<v Speaker 2>make such such dollars and assistant such such, and you

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<v Speaker 2>have to pay for my insurance, which I'm happy to

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<v Speaker 2>and then they recoup that amount. And then once they

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<v Speaker 2>recoup it, it's a straight split. And the split is

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<v Speaker 2>depending on the person and how bad I want them,

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<v Speaker 2>how bad they want in, you know, or what's fair

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<v Speaker 2>to them, what's fair to me?

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<v Speaker 1>So okay, what is in the pot? Then at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, that is split at whatever percentage

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<v Speaker 1>it might be.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it depends, you know, it depends on the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of the individual manager. So when you say pot, what

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<v Speaker 2>do you mean by pott?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean so the shared services are not in the pot?

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<v Speaker 2>What?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>So what is in the pot?

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<v Speaker 2>Not think? But they're hard costs nothing but their salary,

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<v Speaker 2>their teeny their insurance, and their employee that the assistant.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. There's no add on costs, so all they

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<v Speaker 2>have to do is keep recoup those three things. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>they said, I pay for the shared services. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't charge back to the individual managers.

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<v Speaker 1>What am I going to get in shared services?

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to get radio, You're going to get asset developers,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to get social media people, You're going to

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<v Speaker 2>get streaming people, you know those that type of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, tell me how this is different from red Light.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've never worked for red Light, but I've heard,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is my understanding. Anyone can correct me if

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wrong, because I could be that they make the

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<v Speaker 2>same deal I just said, but they add on costs,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's office space, shared service contribution, all those things.

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<v Speaker 2>So I didn't want to do that. And maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>foolish for me not doing that, okay, But it was

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<v Speaker 2>more the philosophy of the company, okay, And maybe that

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<v Speaker 2>lessens my profit at the end of the day, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm okay with that because I'm in this still after

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<v Speaker 2>all these years, to have fun, enjoy the people around,

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<v Speaker 2>care of people, no different than how you take care

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<v Speaker 2>of an artist. You take care of a manager. You

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<v Speaker 2>develop them, you help them, you know. That was my thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to cultivate managers. And then there was a

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<v Speaker 2>point two years ago that I said to a couple

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<v Speaker 2>guys at the company. I said, the problem, the problem

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<v Speaker 2>here is we're not developing young managers. We're developing young acts,

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<v Speaker 2>but no young managers. Who's going to take over one?

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<v Speaker 2>We're going not necessarily at the company, but in the industry. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So I started this incubator team of kids and gave

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<v Speaker 2>them a draw and over the two years, they're all succeeding.

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<v Speaker 2>They recouped, they make money, and they're great. But I

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<v Speaker 2>had to teach them. So I spend more time working

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<v Speaker 2>with these people, opening doors for these people, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>guiding them when needing needed guiding, and that's working. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of what I do for the established managers too.

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<v Speaker 2>I help them with things maybe they're not familiar with,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's a television show which I've produced shows, you know, whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>those type of things, and or branding opportunities. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've had restaurants, I've had wines with my artists, I've

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<v Speaker 2>had clothing companies whatever, Okay, So I have relationships. So

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<v Speaker 2>I help even the established managers to open different relationships

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<v Speaker 2>to provide a better service for their clients. So I

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<v Speaker 2>manage the managers, you know.

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, in terms of your shared service staff. How many

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.360
<v Speaker 1>people is that? What's the head count?

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 2>It's not that big. It's five or six people.

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:46.959
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go to your farm team, so to speak. Yeah,

0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.719
<v Speaker 1>how many developing managers are you working with?

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Just three? But I only have a total of twelve managers,

0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.959
<v Speaker 2>so you know that's thirty percent.

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's let's let's stay with it. If you have

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 1>those three, is it the same three or are you

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:07.840
<v Speaker 1>rolling them over?

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>It's the same three right now. But I add to it.

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I will add to it as these as these guys

0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.600
<v Speaker 2>go up. Then I bring another level in and they

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:17.880
<v Speaker 2>just you know that it hasn't happened yet, no, because

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>it's been two years and it just got to the

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 2>point that my lit Mitz test, you know, the proof

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 2>of concept is proving that it was a good concept,

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, So now it's time to start looking.

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, where did you find these three?

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, one is my son who was working who was young,

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 2>who's twenty seven, but when he started twenty five, but

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 2>he had been working for Live Nation up in Chicago,

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 2>h running like the Aragon ball okay at a young age,

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 2>great kid, you know, like me, a college dropout okay,

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 2>but had a thirst. And the other one was my

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:21.200
<v Speaker 2>nephew who who was Mick Fleetwood's assistant for like three

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 2>years during a big tour during the whole period, so

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 2>he learned that kind of you know, relationship. And my son,

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Jackson grew up with me managing Fleetwood Mac and on

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 2>the plane with us, you know, his whole life as

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 2>a kid, so he knows how artists think at an

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 2>early age. So now it was really teaching these two

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>cats who knew how to deal with artists, talk to artists,

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 2>respect the artists, teach them the business part of it.

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 2>And so that was what the two years was basically.

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 2>But then they went out and signed all these bands

0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.040
<v Speaker 2>and some I helped them with some I didn't, and

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 2>whether they were established bands or identifying talent very young

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and getting him up to There's a kid that they

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 2>managed called Hunter Mets who was just signed by Interscope

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and Sony ATV Publishing and is touring and has an

0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>immense amount of monthly listeners and it's just blowing up.

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 2>And they showed him, they introduced me to him in

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>a room where the guy had three people in the audience,

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 2>and so they introduced them to writers, to all this

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 2>collaborators into a world and now it's blowing up. All right,

0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 2>So there's a z the learning curve. Okay, getting it.

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Then they have some bands from the the late early

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 2>two thousands, you know, like a Hinder or a or

0:16:55.360 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 2>a bands like that in fuel and those say they

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 2>bread and butter bands because those bands still tour. Okay,

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>So build your business kind of like I did, and

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.359
<v Speaker 2>you don't need to do it this way, but this

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 2>is the way I did it was I got established

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.119
<v Speaker 2>bands right away, and then you start working on the

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 2>development because you need to be able to afford to

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 2>do the development and you also want to live and

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.720
<v Speaker 2>pay your bills. So get those bands and then in

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.080
<v Speaker 2>that period develop bands at the same time.

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>So, okay, who's the third person.

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Third person I'm not going to say right now, but

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 2>it's there.

0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.679
<v Speaker 1>And wait, wait, wait, just I don't need to know

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 1>exactly who this person is, but there's someone who started

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 1>two years ago.

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Who's also are he caman?

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.280
<v Speaker 1>And he is doing essentially with the other two.

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>He is working with that team.

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, let's go back a step. The five people

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 1>insured services? What exactly do those five do?

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 2>A lot of them do crossover stuff, But basically what

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to do is cover radio assets because you know,

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 2>in today's world, you've got to deliver so many assets,

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:13.880
<v Speaker 2>visual assets, you know, online, YouTube, whatever, TikTok So, there's

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 2>a person who does assets radio. There's a streaming specialist

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 2>okay that works with the streaming companies. There's a touring

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:28.200
<v Speaker 2>component person you know who helps And now that I'm

0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 2>talking so slow, I forgot the other one, but I

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 2>come up with it.

0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, I'll come back to you. Okay. Q Prime

0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.439
<v Speaker 1>has a dedicated radio team. Is that something? If I

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>go with you, I'm going to get the equivalent service.

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Let me go back the other way before we get

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.600
<v Speaker 1>back to radio and streaming. Ay, you say you have

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.439
<v Speaker 1>twelve managers. Now, how does it ultimately happen? Do you

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 1>hear about somebody is somebody shopping? How does it go?

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, in the beginning it's different than now Okay,

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:03.400
<v Speaker 2>we'll tell me both.

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.879
<v Speaker 2>So in the beginning, it was I would identify lone

0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.720
<v Speaker 2>wolf managers people that worked on their own okay, not

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.919
<v Speaker 2>part of an infrastructure business. And in today's music business

0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 2>you need so much help because it's management is so

0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.480
<v Speaker 2>much more time intense, and your job description is so

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.679
<v Speaker 2>much different than what it was when I started. So

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I can help you because I have an infrastructure and

0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.199
<v Speaker 2>you can use my services too. We'd like you to

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.160
<v Speaker 2>come in, you know, then you sit down and talk

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 2>and you do the deal. Now more people are coming

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 2>to us, you know, looking for a home or leaving

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:47.720
<v Speaker 2>a major company, some that you have referenced to get

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 2>a different situation.

0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, to what degree is there someone who's saying, hey,

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't want to work independently anymore, and

0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>it's making the rounds and talking to everybody, and you're

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.679
<v Speaker 1>part of that picture. Yeah that happens. Oh yeah, yeah,

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 1>so you're pitching me. Okay, I'm talking to the other

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 1>big companies. What is your cell? What is it that

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:12.200
<v Speaker 1>you say?

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 2>The sell is totally the environment of our workplace, the

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>services we provide, and me as a person.

0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, someone like Irving always takes fifteen, doesn't have a contract.

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Other people take twenty. They get it all on paper.

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Does everybody have the same deal with the acts in

0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.840
<v Speaker 1>your company now? No, Do you have a philosophy about that?

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 1>What percentages and whether we have paper?

0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I think yeah, paper is not always easy to get,

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, And so it really depends on the thirst

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.400
<v Speaker 2>for the manager or the artist, okay, because every manager

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 2>we have or every artist we have is a representation

0:20:55.040 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 2>of what we are. Okay. So sometimes no different than

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.320
<v Speaker 2>buying cars or in cars are more expensive. I don't know,

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, but it's it's I don't like working with

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 2>this or nothing. It's all about, hey, dude, I dig you,

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 2>let's do it. We'll figure it out. We'll figure out.

0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I dig you, let's do it.

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's that kind of related. It's a hippie in mentality,

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.199
<v Speaker 2>you know. It's like it's it's I do and it

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.440
<v Speaker 2>could be the wrong way to go, okay, but right

0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.159
<v Speaker 2>now it seems to be working. But it makes me happy.

0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>And if I'm not happy, I don't want to do

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 2>this anymore other than you know, fleevand Macro, dis ease here,

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Crowdhouse or whatever.

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you this. Do you have enough money

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>so you don't have to do this if you didn't

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 1>want to?

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:44.919
<v Speaker 2>Yes, My people in my personal world, business world, personal

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.240
<v Speaker 2>business world, wonder why I do this? You know, why

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 2>are you doing this? You don't need to do this.

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:55.679
<v Speaker 1>He is all the money you have from representing artists everything. Okay,

0:21:55.800 --> 0:22:01.159
<v Speaker 1>I started, I started. I started my company in a

0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:06.480
<v Speaker 1>one bedroom apartment with my wife and a new child,

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 1>and from there it just kept on going. Just to

0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 1>be clear, what year are we talking about.

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, I started in the mail room at Gallan Morey in.

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh wait, wait, well let's let's hold that for a second, because.

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.200
<v Speaker 2>When I was in the one room. Okay, ninety two,

0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 2>ninety three.

0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back to some of the things you said.

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 1>You talked about your young team signing someone who had

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:34.120
<v Speaker 1>a deal with Inner.

0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Scope, yet who didn't have a deal, who was inempenent.

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 2>We were putting music independentty but now has a deal

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 2>with Okay.

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 1>In the old days, the record company was an integral part. Okay,

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.439
<v Speaker 1>would you sign an act? I realized everything is different

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 1>because you have different managers, et cetera. But talking about

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 1>general philosophy, how important is the label partner at this point,

0:22:57.560 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 1>and is it necessary.

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't think the I don't think the label is

0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:06.199
<v Speaker 2>important to you need real muscle or real funding. Okay,

0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>So as far as the development, I think we're more

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.359
<v Speaker 2>equipped to develop than anyone. We know that the artist

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 2>is not one dimensional records only. It's a truly a

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.719
<v Speaker 2>management of three to sixty, not like the three sixty

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 2>the labels talk about. My goal when I sign an

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:29.120
<v Speaker 2>artist is not putting out a single and having success.

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Mine is having ten years what's in twenty years? You know,

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and building a career. And really that's where the rewards

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.600
<v Speaker 2>come in. It's not off a single. You know, it

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:41.879
<v Speaker 2>might be too a label because they monetize and do

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 2>things differently.

0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:48.399
<v Speaker 1>Okay, not every act is a major label interested in right,

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 1>if you found an act that does not fit into

0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 1>one of their slots, would you still work with the

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 1>actors say there's no deep pocket, I'm not interested.

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>No, we would work because there's ways to put out

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 2>music obviously, as you know in today's world that can

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:12.160
<v Speaker 2>get attention without without going through traditional distribution or or

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 2>traditional record companies. You know, it's it's it's different. And

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 2>then I think if we really believe in that artist,

0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.440
<v Speaker 2>the labels will come and at that time we'll decide

0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:24.920
<v Speaker 2>if that's the right direction or not. I will sign

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>an act or I will encourage my managers to sign

0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>an act based solely, not on algorithms or streams or monthlies,

0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, on your belief or my belief in that

0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.320
<v Speaker 2>artist as a human being, as an artist, you know,

0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 2>and and that they share a vision, you know. And

0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:46.440
<v Speaker 2>so that's how we.

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.320
<v Speaker 1>So theoretically it could be a Klesmer artist.

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And theoretically yes.

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, let's go back to breaking down some of

0:24:54.800 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>these things. You have. Radio, How important is radio today?

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>One, it's very important to the artist, Okay. Whether it's

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:08.840
<v Speaker 2>important in the big picture, not as much as it

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:14.240
<v Speaker 2>used to be, obviously, but the artists still sees in

0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:18.879
<v Speaker 2>their mind radio and important thing. So I have we

0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 2>have a band, okay that's on the Active Rock charts,

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 2>and it's had three number one singles on the Active

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Rock chart on one record, and we're about to have

0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.359
<v Speaker 2>the fourth single. No one has fourth single, the fourth

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 2>single number one that is solely no, I won't say so.

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>That's that's from the efforts of Tyson, who's had my

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:43.200
<v Speaker 2>radio apartment. Okay, he works it. He's on the road

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.400
<v Speaker 2>constantly for and he does all our bands. You look

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:50.879
<v Speaker 2>at artists like Scott Stapp and yeah, Creed is on

0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>fire right now. And we bot when Scott came back

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 2>to me because I worked with him earlier on and

0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:01.280
<v Speaker 2>he said, I really haven't had six sess since being

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 2>with you. Dude, will you manage me again? I said, no,

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 2>I can't manage you, but this guy my company can.

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 2>But now he's got the highest ranking single he's ever

0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 2>had in his career, you know, because of what we're

0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:16.880
<v Speaker 2>doing and how we're doing it. But okay, go back

0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to the band with the four number one singles or

0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:26.400
<v Speaker 2>three with potentially the fourth, Okay, is that changing their streams?

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Their download is their record not physical record sales? Not

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:31.520
<v Speaker 2>that much?

0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Is it helping their touring a little bit more okay

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 2>than the other things. So it's really about and it's

0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:44.280
<v Speaker 2>it's all John of specific how you have to market

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and break a band, Okay in the active rock world,

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:54.720
<v Speaker 2>which is still somewhat touring driven. Okay, And it's not

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:56.240
<v Speaker 2>a When.

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.400
<v Speaker 1>You say touring driven, you mean that's where the revenue

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.280
<v Speaker 1>is or across pollination with the radio.

0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's where the revenue is really, you know, and

0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 2>that's how the band survives, and so you know, in

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:11.560
<v Speaker 2>other formats it's totally different. But talking about this one example,

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 2>they're touring goods bigger and bigger. They open up for

0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:18.479
<v Speaker 2>bigger acts, or they're headlining bigger venues, you know. And

0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 2>so that's the goal because once you get a loyal

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:24.879
<v Speaker 2>fan base that buys hard tickets, your career can go

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:27.800
<v Speaker 2>on and on as long as you don't screw your

0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 2>audience or do stuff they don't understand.

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 1>So just because you mentioned it, what might an act

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>do that the audience doesn't understand.

0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you there's a there's a lot of things.

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:46.360
<v Speaker 2>But if you if you go to a show and

0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>you know five of their songs and you love those songs,

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 2>and you go to it, but they drop a new

0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:54.680
<v Speaker 2>song that's a disco song, their fans react and say

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 2>that I'm not into this. You lost me. You're not

0:27:57.080 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>who I thought you were. And this is a terrible, terrible,

0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 2>crass example. But the reason McDonald's is so successful is

0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>you know what you're getting when you go to McDonald's.

0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 2>There are no surprises. You don't want to surprise your

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 2>You want to do better and better music and keep

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 2>putting out music because that's you know, legacy evolving. All

0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:21.480
<v Speaker 2>that's fine, but the genre switch is a very difficult thing. Okay,

0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 2>So stay true to who you are and who your

0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:31.160
<v Speaker 2>audience is or you jeopardize losing your audience. Now, if

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 2>it's so important for you to go into the disco

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 2>world in this scenario, I don't know why I see disco,

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:41.200
<v Speaker 2>but what the hell? And you know there's that risk,

0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>but you still decide to do it. Well, that's your choice,

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 2>then okay, and we'll stick by and let's keep on

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 2>trying to make it work, you know. But usually those

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 2>relationships will go sou because then they're not satisfied because

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>they didn't break in that genre, the new genre, you know,

0:28:55.120 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 2>And so it can happen. I haven't really experienced that

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 2>with any of my personal bands that I manage, but

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you see it when when you have a band and

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 2>there's one band member who's bored with what they're doing,

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:14.800
<v Speaker 2>so they're going to go out and do a solo project,

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 2>and that solo project is so far removed from what

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 2>the band's image was and music was that their fans

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 2>show up from the band and go to the solo

0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 2>show and it's totally different things. They don't come back,

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:32.600
<v Speaker 2>So now you've got to build a whole new fan base,

0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:36.360
<v Speaker 2>usually at a later age that's almost impossible.

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Just to be very clear, you're saying in this typothetical,

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 1>I have a band five members were active rock type people. Right,

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>I make a singer song right around, let's not go

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 1>totally up to Okay, you know see it's you know,

0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:58.720
<v Speaker 1>hip hop pop whatever something you know you can sort

0:29:58.760 --> 0:30:01.720
<v Speaker 1>of see. While I'm a musician, I make a quieter record,

0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>and I make the record and I go on the road.

0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 1>There are examples Todd run Green is run into this

0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 1>where he goes on the road. Even though he tells

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 1>people I'm not doing the hits, I'm doing X, they

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 1>still come expecting the hits. But with this scenario, I

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.240
<v Speaker 1>do my singer songwriter record. People know who I am.

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:30.040
<v Speaker 1>You are saying the negative experience that we're proposing is

0:30:30.080 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 1>going to impact the band's business.

0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Ah, maybe not if there's separation, but it will pack

0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:45.440
<v Speaker 2>the potential success. But there are examples where my theory

0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 2>is wrong or what I'm saying is wrong. You look

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:50.720
<v Speaker 2>at Stained and Aaron or you and he goes in

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 2>the kind of country space. He did a great job.

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.040
<v Speaker 2>And not that I'm a Stained fan or anything, but

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 2>watching the business of it, he did it, So you know,

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 2>so that is you know, that is one of those cases,

0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and there are other cases.

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me just be very general, Okay. The hardest

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:20.160
<v Speaker 1>thing today is to get traction at all and to

0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.280
<v Speaker 1>get noticed. And it's not driven as you're you're putting

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.680
<v Speaker 1>radio down towards the bottom of the pyramid, and it's

0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 1>not driven by the traditional methods. So once you gain traction,

0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 1>to what degree are you saying advising the artists? You've

0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 1>got to stay in the same path. Dude.

0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:43.959
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I'm not putting radio way down there,

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>and I don't want anyone out there to think I shut.

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>It out right, Okay. I got somebody working there, so

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:50.200
<v Speaker 1>it's important.

0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 2>And we have bands that work, can we let and

0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>record radio stations have been very good to us, so

0:31:56.240 --> 0:31:58.520
<v Speaker 2>with all due respect, but there are other ways to

0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.840
<v Speaker 2>do it. Okay. So what was your question again, because

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I focused on that one line.

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, let me say, is a lot of words

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:09.240
<v Speaker 1>for a general, let me enter it a different way.

0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.640
<v Speaker 1>There are some managers who are completely transactional. I realize

0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 1>you have twelve managers and none are going to be

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>the same. Some say to the act, you deliver the

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:25.000
<v Speaker 1>record and I'll take care of the rest. Others want

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:29.640
<v Speaker 1>to sit there and discuss with the act where the

0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:32.800
<v Speaker 1>record is going, what they're doing. What kind of manager

0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 1>are you me?

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 2>Personally? I discussed with the artists. I'm very the bands

0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:43.760
<v Speaker 2>that I personally manage, right I am very close to Okay,

0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:47.000
<v Speaker 2>extremely close. I'm a well, since you're the manager, let's

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 2>just name those bands. Yeah. With zz Top, I'm extremely

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.480
<v Speaker 2>close to the band. To Bailly, he's doing a solo

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:58.640
<v Speaker 2>record right now. He sends me a song. Every time

0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 2>he's done, we talk about it. I'd say, well, what

0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>about this? What about that? And you know, stay on

0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:10.360
<v Speaker 2>course once again, stay on course, you know. So that's

0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, one example, Mick Fleetwood, who I've been around

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:18.800
<v Speaker 2>for thirty five years, managing Fleetwood, Mac, managing Mac, et cetera.

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>He is doing this crazy record and this is kind

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of out of what we're talking about, but since you

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 2>bring it up, but he's doing this record and what

0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:30.400
<v Speaker 2>happened when we ended the tour in twenty nineteen, the

0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:32.920
<v Speaker 2>last Fleetwood Mac tour. He's bored. He goes back to

0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 2>his house in Maui and he's doodling on the guitar.

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Eventually but ukulele to start and he's writing these songs

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and they're really rough, you know, really rough. But he's

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>sending like five hundred a day to me in the

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:53.800
<v Speaker 2>middle of the night. Okay, you know, hard to follow. Okay,

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 2>hard to follow, especially for me. But he has this

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.080
<v Speaker 2>guy he communicates with, which this guy named Carl Fok

0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:04.080
<v Speaker 2>who's the Swedish producer that's part of the Max Martin

0:34:04.120 --> 0:34:06.920
<v Speaker 2>world all that kind of stuff. And he starts listening

0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:11.360
<v Speaker 2>to these tidbits and he's like, these are fucking amazing.

0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:14.160
<v Speaker 2>These are amazing. We need to get together and let's

0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:18.880
<v Speaker 2>write songs. So Mick and Carl write ten songs and

0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 2>record demos of him in mixed studio and Maui. Keep

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:24.600
<v Speaker 2>in mind that Mick had been in Fleetwood Mac for

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:27.319
<v Speaker 2>sixty years whatever it is. No one ever has asked

0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:29.640
<v Speaker 2>him to write a song, right, No one asked him

0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 2>if he could sing. He's singing on this too. I

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:36.200
<v Speaker 2>mean we have other singers. Nobody's singing. No one ever asked,

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.680
<v Speaker 2>including his manager Carl. No one said Mick write a song,

0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>So shame on me, shame on everyone. These songs are

0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:48.960
<v Speaker 2>so amazing, and we have big name artists doing one

0:34:49.440 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 2>doing a song each on the record with Mick doing

0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:55.280
<v Speaker 2>some of the vocals, or one song mixes the whole vocals,

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:59.400
<v Speaker 2>He wrote the whole music. So aa level artists, okay,

0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:03.840
<v Speaker 2>are all doing this. So I'm very involved in finding

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.040
<v Speaker 2>those other ones. I'm involved in the songs, which ones

0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 2>we should do. So going back to that original question,

0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like it's that way or you know.

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Then there's Neil Finn, who is, first of all, a

0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:21.839
<v Speaker 2>wonderful person, Okay, like a really really wonderful person who

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I really like and I got to know when we

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.880
<v Speaker 2>asked him to join Fleetwood Mac when Lindsay left, and

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 2>we built a great relationship during that tour, you know,

0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 2>and we talked about me working with him and I

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 2>agreed because he was He's so talented. I mean, this

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 2>guy is incredible. So that relationship has blossomed that we're close.

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I was staying with my family and his family and

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:50.480
<v Speaker 2>his Greek compound on this island, you know, vacationing, and

0:35:51.120 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 2>he was at my wedding and sharing his wife is awesome.

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 2>So we're family, you know. And I become so close

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>to my clients that no one, no artist needs another friend. Okay.

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.920
<v Speaker 2>But if you get along with them, you almost become

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:08.839
<v Speaker 2>like a brother. Okay. You fight like a brother, you

0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:12.120
<v Speaker 2>love like a brother, You loyal like a brother, okay.

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.839
<v Speaker 2>And that's really how it works with me. And fortunately,

0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:21.640
<v Speaker 2>my personality gets along with these people, you know. And

0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.120
<v Speaker 2>it might have to do with how I was brought

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:26.959
<v Speaker 2>up or whatever it is, or how I moved around

0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:29.200
<v Speaker 2>the country my whole life because of what my dad did,

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:31.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, all this kind of stuff. So I can adapt,

0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I adjust.

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Tell me about saying something to the artist that's

0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 1>negative or they don't want to hear.

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, you usually don't just say it out right. You

0:36:42.600 --> 0:36:46.400
<v Speaker 2>got a plan, okay. So it's really like, you know,

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.800
<v Speaker 2>you're going back to music, okay, and an individual artist Okay.

0:36:52.880 --> 0:37:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Use that as the example. So Tommy Lee, okay, Molly

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 2>could CRUs not really happening at that time, and he

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:11.400
<v Speaker 2>has issues with you know, the past thema, his actions,

0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:15.320
<v Speaker 2>his behavior, and he's really tired of talking about. Okay,

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.440
<v Speaker 2>go write a book, and you be honest in that

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 2>book and tell him every answer to every one of

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:23.960
<v Speaker 2>those questions, and you will not have to answer that

0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 2>question again. He says, No, I'm not doing that. Now

0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 2>you're doing it.

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:29.040
<v Speaker 1>You're doing it.

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:31.640
<v Speaker 2>I know the right writer who you'll understand. He'll be

0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:33.640
<v Speaker 2>tongue in cheek. It will be great, but you're being honest.

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:35.880
<v Speaker 2>And if they ask you again, say hey, read my

0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 2>book and walk away. And so he didn't want to

0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:42.160
<v Speaker 2>do it. He did it New York Times bestseller, written

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:45.759
<v Speaker 2>with Anthony Bozo, who's fantastic, who also did Slash his

0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:48.319
<v Speaker 2>book for me, and Mick Flee's book and a few

0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:52.880
<v Speaker 2>others maybe and my thing I was doing. And he uh.

0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:56.480
<v Speaker 2>But then Tommy after that, you know, didn't want to

0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:59.520
<v Speaker 2>do the television show, which was you know, Tommy Lee

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 2>goes back to college. Yes, corny, but I wanted to

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 2>make him. I wanted to humanize him, okay, because he

0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:10.239
<v Speaker 2>wasn't human. He was known for smacking whatever and whomever

0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:13.120
<v Speaker 2>and all that shit. So so no, we're going to

0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:18.080
<v Speaker 2>do you know, an NBC television show, and Middle America

0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:21.279
<v Speaker 2>is going to not only see you as who you

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:25.760
<v Speaker 2>are portrayed in the tabloids. So he's hating that idea.

0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:27.719
<v Speaker 2>But we come up with the idea. You're going back

0:38:27.719 --> 0:38:29.719
<v Speaker 2>to college, you're going to live in a dorm, and

0:38:29.760 --> 0:38:31.399
<v Speaker 2>you're going to join the swim team. What do you say?

0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 2>You know? And he goes, well, if I don't want

0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:37.480
<v Speaker 2>to do that, well, how about this idea. You're going

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 2>to become a mayor of some small town in Kansas,

0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 2>some small town in Kansas, and you're gonna be dealing

0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.040
<v Speaker 2>with parking tickets Fourth of July celebration, whatever it is. No,

0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 2>I'll do the other one. Okay, we're doing the other one.

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:51.560
<v Speaker 2>So that's to your question. You know, it's kind of

0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:54.719
<v Speaker 2>turn it around the other what's the alternative? Well, there's

0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:57.480
<v Speaker 2>not Or Tommy, I want to you know, I want

0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:02.960
<v Speaker 2>to make electric music. Okay, you know, and that is

0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.839
<v Speaker 2>not going to be easy, and you're fan base from

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:10.359
<v Speaker 2>Molly Kruz will not come over to that. But that's

0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:12.799
<v Speaker 2>your choice. And he did it and he loves it,

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:15.200
<v Speaker 2>so he does it out of his own musical passion,

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.799
<v Speaker 2>and you don't want to stop that. Okay, So but

0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.160
<v Speaker 2>there's other things. You know, every artist I have is

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:25.040
<v Speaker 2>that there's that time where there's that conversation you know,

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:29.200
<v Speaker 2>with all of them, you know, and a lot of

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:31.640
<v Speaker 2>the ones I don't want to bring up because yeah,

0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm loyal to my artists and clients and I don't

0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>you know. But Tommy's okay, because he's a wonderful guy

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 2>and we talk about it. You know, he's great, and

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't work with him anymore, but I still love him.

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Let's go back to Mick Fleetwood's record. Yeah, in

0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the pre internet era, you get this record, the record

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.600
<v Speaker 1>company would stir up all sorts of publicity. There'd be

0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:59.959
<v Speaker 1>a single that you would start probably on rock, reed

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.359
<v Speaker 1>you try to cross over to pop or maybe late

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:04.720
<v Speaker 1>ninety start on pop. There might even be a video.

0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Most of the acts of his generation don't even make

0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:13.160
<v Speaker 1>new music, and a lot of them that even the

0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:17.839
<v Speaker 1>biggest acts Elton John got a lot of publicity with

0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Brandy Carlisle put out the record. If you check, the

0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 1>stream streams are anemic.

0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I know.

0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what do you do with somebody like included?

0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:30.920
<v Speaker 2>First of all, you go into the project realizing those

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:34.560
<v Speaker 2>issues and those problems and making it clear to the

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:38.000
<v Speaker 2>artists that these are the issues. But we should still

0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:40.920
<v Speaker 2>make this because it's important for you and parton for

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>your legacy, important for you. Letting people know whether it

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 2>sells or not is not as important as how it's reviewed,

0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.879
<v Speaker 2>how it's thought of, Okay, and look at it that way.

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Now cut to the realities of how you do work

0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:54.880
<v Speaker 2>it once you do put it out. Well, on this

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:59.680
<v Speaker 2>particular record, it's self financed, okay, and when it's done,

0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.480
<v Speaker 2>which is soon, we'll go out and get a traditional

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:06.600
<v Speaker 2>record deal, okay. And then how we're going to work

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:13.040
<v Speaker 2>that record okay, because radio is meaningless, although certain artists

0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:15.120
<v Speaker 2>that we have on it it could work big time.

0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 2>So it's really just to be clear.

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you have pop artists.

0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:22.440
<v Speaker 2>We have pop artists, we have country artists, we have

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:24.440
<v Speaker 2>urban hip hop artists.

0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:27.040
<v Speaker 1>So cornicle wall genre you cover.

0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's a cornicop yes, say yes, a collage.

0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:40.480
<v Speaker 2>But this record will live by single download streaming world only.

0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:43.279
<v Speaker 2>It's not going to ever sell like a record, you know,

0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>because this pop artists their fans don't go along with

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:53.960
<v Speaker 2>the country artists. Okay, So each individual record single song

0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:57.799
<v Speaker 2>is a different release and that's how you do it.

0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:00.799
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, yeah, you look at the

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Dolly parton record, Okay, didn't do anything. There was so

0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:07.120
<v Speaker 2>much hype on that, right, you know, nightfully, So she's

0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:10.240
<v Speaker 2>a great artist, you know, but it didn't do anything.

0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Compilation records don't do anything anymore, you know. Soundtrack records

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:18.759
<v Speaker 2>bear a few do you know. But that's it And

0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:21.000
<v Speaker 2>this is no different than that. So it's a song

0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:27.920
<v Speaker 2>by song effort, and it's utilizing the social media of

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.760
<v Speaker 2>those individual artists every time we put out a record.

0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:36.879
<v Speaker 1>Leit wait wait wait wait. So we talked second ago

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 1>about making these records this important part of the legacy. Okay,

0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:46.240
<v Speaker 1>But the way you're talking now is you are looking

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:48.600
<v Speaker 1>to get lucky. Lucky sort of makes it sound like

0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:50.920
<v Speaker 1>you're not making any effort. I'm trying to say, you

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 1>are trying to create sparks that might create a fire.

0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:55.480
<v Speaker 1>You're still trying to do that.

0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.680
<v Speaker 2>You don't give up, you know, you still try for

0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 2>the success because is that truly will even enhance the

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:08.439
<v Speaker 2>legacy and maybe create future projects like this for him,

0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 2>for that artist. Okay, And so you want success because

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 2>also the amount of effort we put into this. You

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:16.200
<v Speaker 2>want to see some return.

0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:21.359
<v Speaker 2>We're doing a documentary around it with a great documentary team,

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.640
<v Speaker 2>and we don't know when that will come out because

0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I've got the Fleetwood Mac documentary with Apple with Frank

0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:29.799
<v Speaker 2>Marshall directing, So we've got to hold back on that

0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 2>or make it.

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Let's just stop for a second of Fleetwood Mac. How

0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:40.440
<v Speaker 1>does the management work? Okay? Howard Kaufman is dead. Irving

0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:45.000
<v Speaker 1>represents Stevie. No, No, Irving doesn't represent Okay, how does

0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>it work?

0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:50.759
<v Speaker 2>It's over the term that over the time I've been there,

0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:55.280
<v Speaker 2>it's changed, okay, based on death.

0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:43:55.760 --> 0:44:01.440
<v Speaker 2>So my mentor mentor was Howard Kaufman. Sure, okay, because

0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:04.600
<v Speaker 2>he could have tossed me at any time in the

0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:07.840
<v Speaker 2>early years of Fleetwood Mac. Carl you in the way bye,

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:10.319
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell Fleetwood we're getting ready to you or there's

0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>no tour because I have Stevie right, Okay. He never

0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.239
<v Speaker 2>did that. He let me do my thing. He didn't

0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:19.239
<v Speaker 2>always believe in what I was doing, but it ended

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:20.879
<v Speaker 2>up paying off what I was doing. So they looked

0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>at it from different eyes, and he taught me a

0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:29.720
<v Speaker 2>lot but so back then it was just Howard to die. Okay.

0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:40.399
<v Speaker 2>Then Lindsay hires Irving as his solo manager. Okay, now

0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Irving's the picture. But Howard passes away. So then Stevie

0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:51.800
<v Speaker 2>for her solo stuff stayed with Sheryl Lewis, who worked

0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:55.120
<v Speaker 2>for Howard, because there'd be a conflict with me because

0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:59.399
<v Speaker 2>I want Fleetwood Mac okay and so. And then when

0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Laughed left, well, Irving didn't have any artists in

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Fleewood Max, so he was no longer involved and it

0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:09.479
<v Speaker 2>was just me. Okay, but I've always been there half

0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:12.719
<v Speaker 2>and half one tour or a third and then the

0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:15.440
<v Speaker 2>whole type of thing, you know, So it's always changing.

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:19.680
<v Speaker 2>But a tenth of Fleewood Max is an amazing thing.

0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:22.759
<v Speaker 2>So I'm happy, you know, I had I never had

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.520
<v Speaker 2>an issue with that, and they never had an issue

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Irving Howard. They've protected me my career. You know, we

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.879
<v Speaker 2>get along. I love Irving. He helped me get out

0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:37.880
<v Speaker 2>of Sanctuary with the Universal. He was the one who

0:45:37.880 --> 0:45:43.279
<v Speaker 2>did my deal to get out with Lucien. And you know,

0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:45.759
<v Speaker 2>they're good people to me, and I'm loyal to them,

0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:50.080
<v Speaker 2>and they've helped me in my career, and it gets

0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:52.560
<v Speaker 2>it gets a bit difficult with fleetod Mac when there

0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 2>are so many people involved. But the last tour it

0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 2>was I was the Fleetwood Mac man. Cheryl Lewis was

0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:05.319
<v Speaker 2>involved because she's Stevie's manager, Okay, Mick and John on

0:46:05.400 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the trademark the name, so that comes with me too, Okay.

0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:15.080
<v Speaker 2>So it's a complex thing, but it's been an awesome thing,

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean just awesome.

0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:24.960
<v Speaker 2>What did you learn from Howard Kauffman, Slow down, Carl Wisdom.

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:28.520
<v Speaker 2>He was a different kind of manager than me, though,

0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:30.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, I just learned to be cool like him,

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:34.799
<v Speaker 2>because if you knew Howard, you know he was a

0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:39.360
<v Speaker 2>guy who is never on the microphone or in a picture,

0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:42.919
<v Speaker 2>you know, or doing press. And one thing I learned

0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>from him was I was going to be the same way.

0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:48.000
<v Speaker 2>This is really my first podcast ever and that there

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:50.200
<v Speaker 2>was another interview the other day which was my first

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:54.480
<v Speaker 2>interview ever after thirty five years in the business. Whatever

0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:57.239
<v Speaker 2>it is, you know, it's like I never wanted that,

0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:01.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I think that I think that that's

0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:06.560
<v Speaker 2>how Howard was. He was always he came from a

0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:10.320
<v Speaker 2>financial background, accounting background, Okay, so he taught me a

0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:12.400
<v Speaker 2>lot about that which I didn't know that much about.

0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 2>But I learned from him, and I learned to pay

0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:20.279
<v Speaker 2>attention of those to those things. And the other thing.

0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:23.879
<v Speaker 2>He was always like, don't overthink it, make a move,

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:28.120
<v Speaker 2>just do it, just do it. You know, any decisions

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:31.080
<v Speaker 2>better than no decisions, kid, you know, and that kind

0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:32.880
<v Speaker 2>of philosophy, you know.

0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:35.279
<v Speaker 1>And little since you're close to Irving, what do you

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:38.240
<v Speaker 1>can learn from Irving? Really?

0:47:39.440 --> 0:47:46.600
<v Speaker 2>How he's really an amazing businessman, okay, you know, and

0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:51.000
<v Speaker 2>not coming from a business background. I learned a lot

0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:56.120
<v Speaker 2>about business. I learned a lot about having an opinion,

0:47:56.719 --> 0:48:00.760
<v Speaker 2>who you trust, who you don't trust, you know, staying

0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:04.200
<v Speaker 2>close to the people you trust, and never screw with him, never,

0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:06.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, because if you screw with a guy.

0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Like that, you know.

0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:12.600
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know, I don't know specifically, but I

0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:16.520
<v Speaker 2>know if if I if I call Irving right now,

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:18.960
<v Speaker 2>he will pick up the and he'll call me right

0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:22.040
<v Speaker 2>back and he'll answer any question or Irving, I have

0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:26.719
<v Speaker 2>someone that needs to get into UCLA right away. All right,

0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm calling them now. I'll call you right back. Boom

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.319
<v Speaker 2>they're in. You know, He's just that guy for me

0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and for many people. I'm sure I'm not exclusive to

0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Irving's attention. There are a lot of people, I'm sure.

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.240
<v Speaker 2>But he's that guy. He's on it. He doesn't sleep,

0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:45.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he does, but I mean bigularly, and

0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:50.120
<v Speaker 2>he's available to me. That must mean to everybody twenty

0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:54.919
<v Speaker 2>four to seven. He's the work ethic, you know, it's incredible, incredible,

0:48:55.440 --> 0:48:58.279
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think anyone can reproduce what his work

0:48:58.320 --> 0:48:58.840
<v Speaker 2>ethic is.

0:49:06.719 --> 0:49:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to some of the core issues of

0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:13.560
<v Speaker 1>the services you provide. Tell me about streaming. Anybody can

0:49:13.640 --> 0:49:17.600
<v Speaker 1>get their song on the service. What is your philosophy

0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:22.480
<v Speaker 1>with playlisting, marketing other things with the major services?

0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I think that's a question which would

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:29.560
<v Speaker 2>have a different answer every month you ask that question.

0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm asking right now.

0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, playlists aren't as important as they used to be. Okay,

0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:40.920
<v Speaker 2>just to be clear, because because people aren't listening to

0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:45.960
<v Speaker 2>it like they used to. Okay, and you know, every

0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:49.880
<v Speaker 2>artist wants a certain playlist or a couple of specific playlists,

0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:51.880
<v Speaker 2>but then you get them and it really doesn't move

0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:57.040
<v Speaker 2>the needle that much. And although you still want to

0:49:57.040 --> 0:49:59.040
<v Speaker 2>have it because it's at tension or it's a stat

0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:05.960
<v Speaker 2>you know whatever. Okay, I think everything's driven by unfortunately

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:10.960
<v Speaker 2>not YouTube. I mean, excuse me, TikTok Okay, TikTok. You know,

0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:16.959
<v Speaker 2>but certain demographic don't understand TikTok, so it can't help

0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:20.360
<v Speaker 2>those people, but it can help the younger people. And

0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:24.000
<v Speaker 2>it's so of the moment, and it moves so fast everything,

0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:26.720
<v Speaker 2>And you know, that's why I have shared services people

0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:28.799
<v Speaker 2>to educate me, because what the hell do I know.

0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm just an old dude who's been managing for a while,

0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:35.360
<v Speaker 2>who has amazing artists, you know. So that's why I

0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.640
<v Speaker 2>brought this in if I was going to grow to

0:50:37.719 --> 0:50:40.560
<v Speaker 2>have that, so someone could advise me or advise the

0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:43.000
<v Speaker 2>managers who are a lot smarter in that world than I,

0:50:43.880 --> 0:50:44.320
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:50:44.400 --> 0:50:47.520
<v Speaker 1>So give me your snapshot of TikTok.

0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Annoying.

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:54.040
<v Speaker 1>But I think it's annoying on a business level or

0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:56.040
<v Speaker 1>annoying on an experience.

0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm both. Okay, I think and on the

0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:03.560
<v Speaker 2>experience level, that's only a personal opinion. On the business level,

0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 2>it makes it very tricky because what works on TikTok

0:51:10.000 --> 0:51:15.160
<v Speaker 2>isn't necessarily what works for me and my beliefs of art,

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, of art, okay, And so there's a conflict there.

0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Then you talk to a legacy artists say we'll go

0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 2>on TikTok, Dude, what the fuck am I going to do?

0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden they're like doing it,

0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and yet they're trying too hard and it's not coming

0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:33.400
<v Speaker 2>off naturally and it doesn't work, or he needs it

0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:36.279
<v Speaker 2>more scripted and drawn out, or she does and it

0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:40.320
<v Speaker 2>just doesn't work. You know. But kids doing you know,

0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:43.840
<v Speaker 2>machine gun and Kelly type stuff or you know, whoever

0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:48.520
<v Speaker 2>and who are so persistent in it can really have

0:51:48.560 --> 0:51:53.920
<v Speaker 2>an impact, you know. But you can't get a a

0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.680
<v Speaker 2>bono and obviously I don't manage bono, but an artist

0:51:56.760 --> 0:51:59.879
<v Speaker 2>like that or Stevie or whatever to commit to doing

0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.879
<v Speaker 2>delivering three assets a day that lives on TikTok, they're

0:52:04.920 --> 0:52:07.800
<v Speaker 2>not going to do it, okay. So without that impact,

0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:10.359
<v Speaker 2>it's not going to really work. So it's it's got

0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:13.160
<v Speaker 2>to be dedicated and the artist has to be dedicated

0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:16.680
<v Speaker 2>towards to that for TikTok to make the movement, the

0:52:16.680 --> 0:52:19.920
<v Speaker 2>bar movement all so okay.

0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:25.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, for years now, acts have had social media teams.

0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I'm posting on Facebook. You know, I'm putting

0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:32.480
<v Speaker 1>up stuff. Hey do you still do that? And to

0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 1>what extent be when it comes to like TikTok, do

0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:37.640
<v Speaker 1>you say, if you're not doing it yourself, we're not

0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:38.480
<v Speaker 1>even gonna do it at all.

0:52:40.239 --> 0:52:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I say if you don't doing

0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:43.399
<v Speaker 2>it yourself, we're not doing it at all. I say,

0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:45.319
<v Speaker 2>if you're not going to partner with us to do

0:52:45.360 --> 0:52:48.440
<v Speaker 2>it and provide access and the energy to do it,

0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:54.520
<v Speaker 2>then there's no point in doing it. Okay. What was

0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:55.560
<v Speaker 2>the other part of the question.

0:52:55.800 --> 0:52:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that kind of answers it, and okay,

0:52:58.280 --> 0:53:02.720
<v Speaker 1>so let's assume you have an act. In the old days,

0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:08.200
<v Speaker 1>there weren't many opportunities outside the music, and then in

0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:12.040
<v Speaker 1>the late sixties and seventies, the philosophy was we're not

0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:16.200
<v Speaker 1>going to do endorsements, not going to do sponsorships. They're

0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:20.719
<v Speaker 1>going to hurt us. Now there's some classic examples here.

0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Beatles set the trend, not because they

0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:26.120
<v Speaker 1>knew what they were doing, they just did it. But

0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.919
<v Speaker 1>then you had people conscious like Neil Young said I'm

0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:33.160
<v Speaker 1>not going to do it, and he maintains credibility. The

0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:36.799
<v Speaker 1>other three do not, even though certainly Steven Stills has

0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:43.040
<v Speaker 1>incredible talent. David Crosby now dead. Okay, so what is

0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:49.960
<v Speaker 1>your philosophy with an act saying sponsorship, endorsements, merge that

0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:50.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff.

0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, first of all, TV changed the world, okay,

0:53:55.400 --> 0:54:01.240
<v Speaker 2>of how artists look at that, and then the Internet

0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:04.480
<v Speaker 2>changed the world how you look at it? And I

0:54:04.560 --> 0:54:10.839
<v Speaker 2>think it's hard. If the brand you're associate the brand

0:54:10.880 --> 0:54:13.880
<v Speaker 2>the artist is associating with makes sense for that artist,

0:54:14.040 --> 0:54:20.160
<v Speaker 2>it's great. Okay, it's great. And or the business they're

0:54:20.200 --> 0:54:23.839
<v Speaker 2>getting in makes sense for that artist, I think it's great.

0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:28.279
<v Speaker 2>I think that if Fleetwood Mac did a Jack in

0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the Box commercial or whatever, it would kill It would

0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:35.399
<v Speaker 2>be bad, just bad, okay, But if they did, if

0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:39.720
<v Speaker 2>a McK fleewood did a Louis Vuitton like Sean Connery did, Okay.

0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:40.160
<v Speaker 1>That won't hurt.

0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:42.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean because he's a traveler or whatever.

0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:42.400
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:46.000
<v Speaker 2>It's like, it's like that, and I think, you know,

0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the sponsorship of tours is pretty much going away, you know,

0:54:49.800 --> 0:54:53.719
<v Speaker 2>because they didn't do anything for those brands, but building

0:54:56.160 --> 0:55:00.839
<v Speaker 2>lifestyle or products that make sense for that that individual

0:55:00.960 --> 0:55:03.920
<v Speaker 2>band is good, I think. And what it does is

0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:09.560
<v Speaker 2>it protects the artists from living in a cyclical world

0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:13.120
<v Speaker 2>of dropping music touring, dropping music touring, you know whatever

0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:16.160
<v Speaker 2>it is, okay, and it builds a business for them

0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:19.160
<v Speaker 2>that continues. And if you have a brand like a Zeezier,

0:55:19.160 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Fleetwood Mac, those are worldwide recognized image in Nay, okay,

0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:29.560
<v Speaker 2>how do we do that? So Mick Fleetwood did Fleetwood's

0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:33.080
<v Speaker 2>on Front Street in Maui. It was extremely successful restaurant.

0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:36.880
<v Speaker 2>People loved it. He would be there every night like

0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:40.000
<v Speaker 2>a matre d you know, he'd play when Steven Tyler

0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>was don Maui or whatever. They get up and jam.

0:55:42.040 --> 0:55:46.759
<v Speaker 2>And we had a restaurant that was doing probably top

0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:49.480
<v Speaker 2>two restaurants in all of Maui, you know, revenue wise,

0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:53.319
<v Speaker 2>and then the fire burned it down. Heina, but it

0:55:53.400 --> 0:55:55.640
<v Speaker 2>was a great asset to Mic. You know, it was

0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:59.400
<v Speaker 2>a perfect environment for him. So was a wine because

0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:01.800
<v Speaker 2>he was in the rest from business. He outside of wine, okay.

0:56:02.480 --> 0:56:05.200
<v Speaker 2>You know with Tommy Lee, we did the television shows.

0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:07.959
<v Speaker 2>We did a t shirt line, a G line, Jane

0:56:08.000 --> 0:56:10.000
<v Speaker 2>line that made sense for who he was. That's what

0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:11.880
<v Speaker 2>he wore. T shirt ripped off T shirts and you

0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:16.040
<v Speaker 2>know whatever. So it was okay, you know, if you're

0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:21.479
<v Speaker 2>talking about if you're talking about Adele doing a.

0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:24.399
<v Speaker 1>Okay, wait wait, wait, let me stop you. I think

0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:30.160
<v Speaker 1>your concept is clear. A manager only gets paid when

0:56:30.920 --> 0:56:34.120
<v Speaker 1>the act makes a deal. When the act is making money,

0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 1>agent the same thing. So, certainly in the twenty first century,

0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:44.200
<v Speaker 1>it looks like a lot of people have made deals

0:56:44.560 --> 0:56:49.120
<v Speaker 1>because the percentage partner is gonna get paid, especially in

0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.080
<v Speaker 1>a world you're dealing with a lot of legacy acts,

0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:53.399
<v Speaker 1>especially in the world where the acts come and go,

0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:57.200
<v Speaker 1>the business people remain and they say, I'm gonna take

0:56:57.239 --> 0:56:59.759
<v Speaker 1>this money off the table. Okay, I'm gonna do this.

0:57:00.840 --> 0:57:04.000
<v Speaker 1>They never say the artist, no, not good for your

0:57:04.040 --> 0:57:07.320
<v Speaker 1>career whatever. What's your take.

0:57:07.200 --> 0:57:10.879
<v Speaker 2>There, Well, I think that's selling your I think that's

0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:12.719
<v Speaker 2>selling your artists down the road if you take it

0:57:12.800 --> 0:57:14.280
<v Speaker 2>just because there's money involved.

0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:16.000
<v Speaker 1>It's never that black and what.

0:57:15.960 --> 0:57:17.520
<v Speaker 2>It is to me though, it is to me.

0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:20.280
<v Speaker 1>But give me tell me something you told your artists

0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:25.200
<v Speaker 1>not to do. God an actual example.

0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of one, really. I think that there's

0:57:33.720 --> 0:57:37.640
<v Speaker 2>been there's been examples. But oh, one of my older

0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:45.400
<v Speaker 2>artists a huge paycheck for cialis commercial. Nope, don't do it.

0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:47.520
<v Speaker 2>No I should do it. No, don't do it. Wife,

0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes you should do it. I say, no, you're not

0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:50.240
<v Speaker 2>doing it.

0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:53.240
<v Speaker 1>So the act wanted to do it, Yeah, but I didn't.

0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us how much money was involved?

0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:59.919
<v Speaker 2>No? It was seven figures. And then there're what about

0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:04.080
<v Speaker 2>z Eezy top cut your beard, Gillette, Well to a

0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:06.480
<v Speaker 2>commercial cutting your beards off and we'll give you a

0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:11.600
<v Speaker 2>million bucks. Okay, We're not doing that. Guys, it's foolish.

0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:13.920
<v Speaker 2>They agreed with me, but I mean they come in

0:58:13.960 --> 0:58:15.760
<v Speaker 2>and I don't sell them on it. I'm like, hell no,

0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't need that money. That's the beauty of how

0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:22.400
<v Speaker 2>we set up this company because I didn't need the money, okay.

0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:26.120
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not bragging about money, but I didn't need it, okay.

0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:31.120
<v Speaker 2>So everything we do or I do, is really about

0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:34.800
<v Speaker 2>doing what's right, enjoying it, and what's good for the artist.

0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:36.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not about me.

0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Well, let's stay with some of the deals that

0:58:40.880 --> 0:58:44.200
<v Speaker 1>are offered these legacy artists. What is your viewpoint on

0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:48.600
<v Speaker 1>selling your rights, publishing, royalty interests.

0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:51.360
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, we've sold I've been involved in a bunch

0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:55.920
<v Speaker 2>of sales, okay, and it all depends on the individual artist, okay.

0:58:56.600 --> 0:59:02.840
<v Speaker 2>And I think if the artist is sixty five or older, okay,

0:59:03.320 --> 0:59:05.480
<v Speaker 2>it makes a lot of sense to do it from

0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:10.160
<v Speaker 2>a financial standpoint. But a lot of deals, you know,

0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:13.280
<v Speaker 2>when you make that deal, you have to have some

0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.080
<v Speaker 2>ability to veto what they might use your product and

0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:22.920
<v Speaker 2>what's your music. And I've been fortunate too, by way

0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:28.680
<v Speaker 2>of relationships to put those stipulations in an agreement. And

0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:30.960
<v Speaker 2>it took a while because we'd fight back and forth.

0:59:31.840 --> 0:59:37.479
<v Speaker 2>But there's also stuff I put in an agreement that

0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:43.000
<v Speaker 2>if we overperform in any one year, they still get

0:59:43.040 --> 0:59:45.960
<v Speaker 2>a percentage passed through to them, even though you own

0:59:45.960 --> 0:59:49.320
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent of it now okay, So there's safeguards

0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:53.000
<v Speaker 2>you put in there. But they're collecting the money up front, okay.

0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Just to make the numbers easy. I'm over sixty five,

0:59:56.720 --> 1:00:00.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm only selling and publishing selling it for a hundred minus.

1:00:00.440 --> 1:00:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Just to make the numbers of you. You're saying you

1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:07.240
<v Speaker 1>have a clause in the contract such that I can

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:08.280
<v Speaker 1>get paid again.

1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:10.600
<v Speaker 2>The band can get paid. Yeah, yes, and not in

1:00:10.640 --> 1:00:13.800
<v Speaker 2>all the deals I've achieved it.

1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:18.200
<v Speaker 1>When you've achieved that, how is that clause written? Because

1:00:18.760 --> 1:00:20.840
<v Speaker 1>if for no other reason, you know, you can have

1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:24.760
<v Speaker 1>a big year because you're featured in an end title

1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:28.520
<v Speaker 1>on a Netflix show. In In addition, there can be

1:00:28.560 --> 1:00:34.760
<v Speaker 1>steady increases because of new avenues of monetization with you know, Twitch, discord,

1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:36.560
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you

1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:38.560
<v Speaker 1>actually construct something like that?

1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:42.520
<v Speaker 2>You just merely say you're buying this on an average

1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:47.880
<v Speaker 2>of the catalog that you're selling makes a millionaire? Okay,

1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:51.240
<v Speaker 2>a millionaire anytime we go over a million a year

1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:55.040
<v Speaker 2>in revenue that you've collected, we get a piece of

1:00:55.040 --> 1:00:56.320
<v Speaker 2>that above a million.

1:00:57.640 --> 1:00:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, just to be clear, how big a piece might

1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:02.120
<v Speaker 1>it be depends on the artist. I mean, is it

1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:04.360
<v Speaker 1>five percent? Is it twenty five percent?

1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I gotta calculate it because I just got another check million.

1:01:14.520 --> 1:01:23.440
<v Speaker 1>It's it's like, okay, now they're not buying these assets

1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:26.959
<v Speaker 1>and one thing that people buy them there other than merk,

1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:32.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe all these people are very sophisticated financially. They're making

1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:35.880
<v Speaker 1>the money, so they're expecting to both get their money

1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:37.760
<v Speaker 1>and make more money. Otherwise they're not going to do

1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:44.120
<v Speaker 1>it right. Okay, so there's a issues of inflation. Be

1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:48.000
<v Speaker 1>give you an example which you don't represent, but I know, okay, Toto,

1:01:48.760 --> 1:01:52.000
<v Speaker 1>they didn't sell, but they're just like this, all of

1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:56.600
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, Wheezer does Africa and it blows it up

1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:00.000
<v Speaker 1>with your contract. I'm going to get with pulling the number,

1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna get thirty percent of the upside. Let's just

1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:06.440
<v Speaker 1>assume that stays at a high level.

1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:09.080
<v Speaker 2>And it keeps going. But that's why none of not

1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:11.560
<v Speaker 2>many companies would have done that. It was a relationship

1:02:11.920 --> 1:02:14.880
<v Speaker 2>thing that they did with me. Okay, I don't have

1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:15.760
<v Speaker 2>that on online.

1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but let's just say in your particular case, the

1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:22.840
<v Speaker 1>number that you get in excess, let's just make it easy.

1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:26.280
<v Speaker 1>You see a million dollars, so you're making a million dollars.

1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Now over a million, the act gets thirty percent or

1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:32.600
<v Speaker 1>ten depending on the Okay, we're just talking. I know.

1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:37.680
<v Speaker 2>But what about my y Okay, you put it just

1:02:37.720 --> 1:02:41.040
<v Speaker 2>to be just to make the numbers easy. So you

1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:42.960
<v Speaker 2>went to middlebary digit, Yes I did.

1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:45.080
<v Speaker 1>We can talk about that. But let me just finish

1:02:45.160 --> 1:02:49.600
<v Speaker 1>this point. The million dollar floor would not inflate. It

1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:51.720
<v Speaker 1>might last for thirty years.

1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well that's the risk. The thing was they early

1:02:56.440 --> 1:02:58.560
<v Speaker 2>on on these deals three years ago, whatever I ran

1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:02.360
<v Speaker 2>was okay, it was about market share too. Okay, it

1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:04.560
<v Speaker 2>wasn't about just business. It was market share and press

1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:08.160
<v Speaker 2>releases and saying then that would gather then. So it's

1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a lost lead or whatever you want to call it.

1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:13.600
<v Speaker 2>But that could be the case. You know. The other

1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:17.920
<v Speaker 2>important part to the artist is some creative control or

1:03:18.000 --> 1:03:24.440
<v Speaker 2>veto right, which some of the agreements have that specifically

1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:27.280
<v Speaker 2>written in it, some don't. But then it's a relationship

1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:29.720
<v Speaker 2>because if you're just selling the publishing, well, I'm never

1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:31.680
<v Speaker 2>going to prove the master then, so you're not going

1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:36.840
<v Speaker 2>to get it anyways. Okay. So there's a lot of

1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:39.520
<v Speaker 2>ways to protect. There's a lot of ways to enhance,

1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:43.280
<v Speaker 2>get gather more or save you know, save the name.

1:03:43.320 --> 1:03:47.600
<v Speaker 2>And it's not in a political campaign. You know that

1:03:47.760 --> 1:03:50.240
<v Speaker 2>you don't believe in it. Okay, So there needs to

1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:50.480
<v Speaker 2>be this.

1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, when you've made these deals, how much have

1:03:55.240 --> 1:03:58.400
<v Speaker 1>you done the negotiation and how much has the attorney

1:03:58.440 --> 1:03:59.760
<v Speaker 1>done in the negotiation.

1:04:01.960 --> 1:04:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Managers not allowed to negotiate.

1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, under California law and no, but it's a

1:04:09.080 --> 1:04:10.040
<v Speaker 1>manager for resident.

1:04:10.080 --> 1:04:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Tennessee resident actually so.

1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but it's got to do where the contract is. Really.

1:04:16.000 --> 1:04:19.560
<v Speaker 2>But but the thing is is I'm I can say

1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:23.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm very hands on. I find the deal. I don't

1:04:23.480 --> 1:04:27.080
<v Speaker 2>negotiate it, but I set the parameters of the deal

1:04:27.240 --> 1:04:30.360
<v Speaker 2>and what we're looking for. And then the attorney gets

1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:32.480
<v Speaker 2>involved and comes back to me and say, Nope, not

1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:35.160
<v Speaker 2>doing it that way, doing it this way. They call me,

1:04:35.280 --> 1:04:37.200
<v Speaker 2>they work me talk to the attorney, and I go

1:04:37.280 --> 1:04:40.440
<v Speaker 2>back to the attorney, you know, and he's doing the negotiations.

1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:44.480
<v Speaker 2>But I'm very involved my attorneys. Uh, and we have

1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:47.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of great attorneys, you know. But I go

1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:51.320
<v Speaker 2>get the deals. Okay, I get deals. I don't rely

1:04:51.520 --> 1:04:56.960
<v Speaker 2>on on whomever you whoever, big name attorney to find

1:04:57.000 --> 1:05:00.240
<v Speaker 2>me deals. I do them all myself, you know, because

1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:04.480
<v Speaker 2>that's and you can draft it and you can do specifics.

1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:07.240
<v Speaker 2>But I like making deals and I like going out

1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:11.080
<v Speaker 2>and chewing it up with the guy. You know.

1:05:11.200 --> 1:05:16.920
<v Speaker 1>It's like, okay, let's switch gears again. So your anchor

1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:19.680
<v Speaker 1>in Fleetwood Mac is Mick Fleetwood. How did you get

1:05:19.680 --> 1:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>connected to myth Gleewood.

1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:26.560
<v Speaker 2>A great story. You know, it's unbelievable. You know, when

1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:29.480
<v Speaker 2>I worked at Sandy Gallen this is right around right

1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:32.360
<v Speaker 2>before then, I was fortunate enough to work for a

1:05:32.360 --> 1:05:36.680
<v Speaker 2>guy named Barry Josephson. And Barry left Gallen Morey to

1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:41.760
<v Speaker 2>work for Joel Silver, the film producer. He was working

1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:45.720
<v Speaker 2>on an artist named Andrew Dice Clay. Okay, so all

1:05:45.760 --> 1:05:48.160
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden he leaves. I become close to Dice.

1:05:49.200 --> 1:05:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Dice convinces me to leave Sandy and be his director

1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:56.600
<v Speaker 2>of development because he had a we were going to

1:05:56.640 --> 1:05:59.800
<v Speaker 2>do a film deal, television deal, director of touring. He

1:05:59.880 --> 1:06:02.640
<v Speaker 2>was selling out Madison Square Garden and run my business

1:06:02.640 --> 1:06:06.520
<v Speaker 2>like really a manager's job. So I took that job on.

1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:11.240
<v Speaker 2>We had huge, huge success, and that was my first client,

1:06:11.560 --> 1:06:14.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, And it was like an experience because it

1:06:14.200 --> 1:06:20.760
<v Speaker 2>was in all businesses. Somebody who in mixed business manager's

1:06:20.800 --> 1:06:23.760
<v Speaker 2>office knew me and was telling the story of my

1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:27.920
<v Speaker 2>success with Dice. And keep in mind were a lot

1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:30.080
<v Speaker 2>of people involved. Okay, so I'm not taking away, but

1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:32.480
<v Speaker 2>what I did and how I got in and I

1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:37.800
<v Speaker 2>was young, okay, road and so he goes, I want

1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:40.400
<v Speaker 2>to meet this cat, So I get this call from

1:06:40.560 --> 1:06:43.320
<v Speaker 2>a business manager says, hey, Fleetwood wants to meet you.

1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Will you come in? Yeah, I'll be there tomorrow, no problems, problem,

1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:49.720
<v Speaker 2>what you are we in? Let's see, I got to

1:06:49.760 --> 1:06:52.960
<v Speaker 2>go back to Clinton Clinton ninety four. I guess, yeah,

1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:58.480
<v Speaker 2>ninety two, Okay, ninety two, Okay, thank you. So that

1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:01.840
<v Speaker 2>was ninety two, and Fleetwood and I sit in a

1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:06.720
<v Speaker 2>room with his then fiance to be ex wife at

1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:11.840
<v Speaker 2>some point, but a wonderful woman. Okay, she and our

1:07:11.880 --> 1:07:18.880
<v Speaker 2>friends still. But within an hour of leaving the meeting,

1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:22.080
<v Speaker 2>I get a call and I go, Fleetwood's hiring you

1:07:22.600 --> 1:07:24.640
<v Speaker 2>come back or whatever. I go back. He goes, here,

1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:27.440
<v Speaker 2>here's what we're doing. We got the band the Zoo

1:07:27.440 --> 1:07:31.080
<v Speaker 2>out okay, which we're selling pretty good records, that band

1:07:31.480 --> 1:07:34.520
<v Speaker 2>that was happening, And he says, but my dream is

1:07:34.520 --> 1:07:36.800
<v Speaker 2>getting Fleetwood Mac up and running again. How are we

1:07:36.920 --> 1:07:38.520
<v Speaker 2>going to do that? So I came up with this

1:07:38.560 --> 1:07:41.360
<v Speaker 2>plan and we ended up doing the dance, which was

1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:46.439
<v Speaker 2>the MTV special five million records Tour of the year,

1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:50.520
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so in my way working with Fleetwood,

1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:53.080
<v Speaker 2>we got everyone together. Okay, how I did it? I

1:07:53.080 --> 1:07:54.040
<v Speaker 2>don't really want to sing.

1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:04.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to jump back before it jump forward. Now,

1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:09.320
<v Speaker 1>let's say you're involved in selling somebody's rights. Seemingly all

1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:11.760
<v Speaker 1>your big acts you were not there for minute one,

1:08:12.440 --> 1:08:13.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, zsy.

1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Top, none of them Bokay, so I was forever last,

1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:19.519
<v Speaker 2>but he fired me, right.

1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:23.000
<v Speaker 1>So what it comes to an act that's had a

1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:28.880
<v Speaker 1>forty year career and you're selling the rights of the publishing.

1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:31.320
<v Speaker 1>How do you decide what the commission is? Is it

1:08:31.400 --> 1:08:32.520
<v Speaker 1>your standard commission?

1:08:33.120 --> 1:08:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Now I give him a reduction because they're getting forty million,

1:08:37.120 --> 1:08:40.719
<v Speaker 2>fifty whatever it is, you know, off of one person, okay,

1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:44.160
<v Speaker 2>in a band or it was easy, it was the

1:08:44.160 --> 1:08:49.080
<v Speaker 2>whole thing, but the whole band. But I reduce it.

1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:55.120
<v Speaker 2>But it's still a substantial percentage. And I think I've

1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:58.000
<v Speaker 2>been really fortunate with my clients that they were willing

1:08:58.360 --> 1:09:03.280
<v Speaker 2>to always take care of me. You know, if you

1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:06.400
<v Speaker 2>look at ZIZI. I've been with zz for seventeen years,

1:09:06.840 --> 1:09:09.960
<v Speaker 2>how many managers you know, except for a few, you know,

1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Tony demitriotis Petty, Dave Matthews, and but there's very few.

1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:20.120
<v Speaker 2>And they're loyal and I'm loyal and they know that,

1:09:20.439 --> 1:09:24.439
<v Speaker 2>you know. And and these were all done during COVID,

1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:28.720
<v Speaker 2>and it made sense, and I'm happy they did it,

1:09:28.800 --> 1:09:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and I and I did very well during COVID.

1:09:31.320 --> 1:09:33.920
<v Speaker 1>So you pull the number out of your ass, how

1:09:33.920 --> 1:09:37.000
<v Speaker 1>do you get a number to sell it for? No?

1:09:37.280 --> 1:09:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Your percentage?

1:09:38.680 --> 1:09:41.640
<v Speaker 2>It's a conversation just between that person and I.

1:09:42.000 --> 1:09:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, no one likes to give up money.

1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:47.960
<v Speaker 2>They I don't know if that's true.

1:09:49.479 --> 1:09:51.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to get into artists. One thing new,

1:09:51.760 --> 1:09:55.479
<v Speaker 1>I won't talk about artists. That's not necessarily true. No, No,

1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.800
<v Speaker 1>here is the story with artists. This is the one

1:10:00.840 --> 1:10:04.160
<v Speaker 1>and only thing they can do. Their name is on

1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:09.200
<v Speaker 1>the marquee. You can always get another act. You're behind

1:10:09.280 --> 1:10:15.680
<v Speaker 1>the scenes. There's for desperations, got a negative quality. But

1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the nature of these acts at that core they know

1:10:20.560 --> 1:10:24.719
<v Speaker 1>that somehow, and they're not like regular people. They wouldn't

1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.240
<v Speaker 1>have become that successful without it. That doesn't mean they

1:10:27.360 --> 1:10:32.280
<v Speaker 1>can't be reasonable. But these are not your everyday.

1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:37.800
<v Speaker 2>People, clearly not. But what's your question then? At what's

1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:38.240
<v Speaker 2>your point?

1:10:38.320 --> 1:10:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think you know. I don't think there's a

1:10:40.240 --> 1:10:44.880
<v Speaker 1>specific question there. But let's go back to think.

1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I can only speak about my experience, okay, and my

1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:52.160
<v Speaker 2>experience is that all my clients have always been fair

1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:57.400
<v Speaker 2>to me, and they have never except I feel little

1:10:57.400 --> 1:11:02.200
<v Speaker 2>small things, ever questioned. And then and then I'll go

1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:05.240
<v Speaker 2>to them and say, hey, you know what to be fair?

1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:10.320
<v Speaker 2>So and so I'm not going to take fifteen percent

1:11:10.360 --> 1:11:12.719
<v Speaker 2>across on this. I'm not going to do that, Okay,

1:11:13.160 --> 1:11:16.000
<v Speaker 2>but I will take I do think I deserved this much.

1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:18.640
<v Speaker 1>So you won't toss out an initial number on a

1:11:18.720 --> 1:11:19.400
<v Speaker 1>huge p day.

1:11:19.520 --> 1:11:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or some people of some artists, based on a relationship,

1:11:23.400 --> 1:11:25.760
<v Speaker 2>say what do you think is fair? And they might

1:11:25.800 --> 1:11:28.479
<v Speaker 2>say that I said, well maybe this, well maybe that

1:11:28.560 --> 1:11:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the okay, cool, let's do it.

1:11:30.280 --> 1:11:32.960
<v Speaker 1>I no, have you ever had an experience with the

1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:34.800
<v Speaker 1>artist says well, this is what I think it was fair,

1:11:34.960 --> 1:11:36.719
<v Speaker 1>and it's less than you think is fair.

1:11:37.320 --> 1:11:40.840
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, And I'm not bullshit. I'm serious. It

1:11:40.840 --> 1:11:44.320
<v Speaker 2>hasn't happened to me. I've been lucky. I take it.

1:11:44.479 --> 1:11:46.479
<v Speaker 1>You know, you know, let's go back to Fleetwood Mac.

1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:49.200
<v Speaker 1>I know on some level you said they didn't want

1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:51.160
<v Speaker 1>to get back to what do we know Fleetwood Mac.

1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:57.360
<v Speaker 1>They performed to Clinton's inaugurations, singing don't stop whatever? What

1:11:57.479 --> 1:12:00.920
<v Speaker 1>was the impediment? John mcviee's seeming legals show. Well, we're

1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:03.679
<v Speaker 1>doing it, we're doing it. Okay, he's there with Mick Mix.

1:12:03.760 --> 1:12:06.320
<v Speaker 1>More of the business guys managed the band for an

1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:10.519
<v Speaker 1>interim there. What was the hang up in getting them

1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:11.200
<v Speaker 1>back together?

1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I think it was just individual lives. I think Stevie

1:12:14.200 --> 1:12:17.360
<v Speaker 2>was doing her thing, Lindsay was doing his thing. And

1:12:17.400 --> 1:12:20.960
<v Speaker 2>at the time they got back together, Lindsay was in

1:12:20.960 --> 1:12:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the studio making a record, and at that he had

1:12:24.200 --> 1:12:27.240
<v Speaker 2>a manager at that time, and they called a manager

1:12:27.280 --> 1:12:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and I said, hey, why don't you get Mick and

1:12:30.200 --> 1:12:32.879
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay together. You know, Lindsay's had a lot of success

1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:34.920
<v Speaker 2>with Mick in the studio with him and Mix not

1:12:34.960 --> 1:12:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a producer, but he's a vibe you know, he's a

1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:39.640
<v Speaker 2>vibe guy, and he knows the sound and all that.

1:12:39.760 --> 1:12:42.880
<v Speaker 2>So maybe you have him come down and let's talk,

1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:46.760
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so that happened, and then all of

1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:48.559
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, well why don't we get sell and so down?

1:12:48.560 --> 1:12:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Why don't we get sell and so down. Then they're

1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:53.439
<v Speaker 2>all in a room, you know, recording on Lindsay's record.

1:12:54.640 --> 1:13:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Then you're out there looking at opportunity. Okay, let's go

1:13:00.600 --> 1:13:02.760
<v Speaker 2>to a promoter and see what they pay for a

1:13:02.760 --> 1:13:06.240
<v Speaker 2>fleeting back tour. So I did that without the band

1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:09.720
<v Speaker 2>really being aware of it, but just to see so

1:13:09.760 --> 1:13:12.439
<v Speaker 2>I could be honest and educate the band. Why not,

1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:18.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, number was insane. I wonder if MTV would

1:13:18.760 --> 1:13:21.240
<v Speaker 2>do a special if they got back together. I can

1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:24.200
<v Speaker 2>remember Howard, I think it was Howard. There's no way

1:13:24.240 --> 1:13:27.000
<v Speaker 2>that will happen. Okay, well let me just see, you know.

1:13:27.160 --> 1:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>And so it happened, and it made sense that they

1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:33.080
<v Speaker 2>did it and became and they did they all got

1:13:33.080 --> 1:13:37.040
<v Speaker 2>it and did it. We recorded a concert. We peppered

1:13:37.080 --> 1:13:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the audience with current artists too, to make it look

1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, make they were fans, but to make sure

1:13:41.880 --> 1:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>people on television realized, you know that this is cross genre,

1:13:45.120 --> 1:13:48.400
<v Speaker 2>this is cross demographic, okay, whatever it is. And we

1:13:48.479 --> 1:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>did that and cover Rolling Stone popped up and just

1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:53.800
<v Speaker 2>kept on going, you know, it kept on okay.

1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:57.679
<v Speaker 1>But generally speaking, the members of the band were saying,

1:13:58.520 --> 1:14:00.679
<v Speaker 1>if the numbers line up were in it, you didn't

1:14:00.680 --> 1:14:01.839
<v Speaker 1>have to do any arm twisting.

1:14:02.120 --> 1:14:07.640
<v Speaker 2>No, there was some politics, but not arm twisting. Christine

1:14:07.720 --> 1:14:12.720
<v Speaker 2>was in right away because wonderful person, you know, and

1:14:12.880 --> 1:14:15.800
<v Speaker 2>just she didn't want to ever be a She was

1:14:15.800 --> 1:14:18.080
<v Speaker 2>a person that didn't want to be a star. Okay,

1:14:18.680 --> 1:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>respect to that, okay. And she didn't mind sharing the stage.

1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:25.000
<v Speaker 2>She wasn't about going doing another solo record, you know.

1:14:25.080 --> 1:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>So she was just sitting there in her castle and

1:14:28.760 --> 1:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Edinburgh or whatever the hell it is, you know. And

1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>John's out on his boat crossing the Pacific, you know,

1:14:35.960 --> 1:14:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and Hi cool.

1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:38.519
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Mick eager to keep his band because he started it

1:14:40.960 --> 1:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>in the sixties. That's all he's ever known is sleeping back,

1:14:44.360 --> 1:14:47.439
<v Speaker 2>you know. It is it's more than a band, or

1:14:47.439 --> 1:14:49.679
<v Speaker 2>it's more than making money. To him, it's what I do,

1:14:49.960 --> 1:14:52.479
<v Speaker 2>you know. So he's in. And then Lindsay and Stevie

1:14:52.520 --> 1:14:55.960
<v Speaker 2>have their solo projects and both very successful. So how

1:14:55.960 --> 1:14:59.080
<v Speaker 2>do you find the time to get into their schedule

1:14:59.120 --> 1:15:01.160
<v Speaker 2>based on their success? And it just worked out.

1:15:02.400 --> 1:15:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay. You said that Mick was at your wedding. That

1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:08.599
<v Speaker 1>would imply that you've been married multiple times.

1:15:08.920 --> 1:15:13.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, Mick was only at Mick was at my Yes,

1:15:14.360 --> 1:15:17.760
<v Speaker 2>I've been married three times. One time was for two

1:15:17.800 --> 1:15:20.920
<v Speaker 2>months right before I got married, right before I start

1:15:20.920 --> 1:15:23.479
<v Speaker 2>in the mail room. Okay, that lasted two months because

1:15:23.479 --> 1:15:26.400
<v Speaker 2>I got in the mail room, met Dice left. Okay,

1:15:26.800 --> 1:15:30.240
<v Speaker 2>we're still friends. Okay, we're still friends. Then my other

1:15:30.280 --> 1:15:36.479
<v Speaker 2>wife was the mother of two of my boys. We

1:15:36.560 --> 1:15:41.080
<v Speaker 2>got married in Vegas after a mix show and we

1:15:41.160 --> 1:15:43.800
<v Speaker 2>did it like at the Elvis Chapel or one of

1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:47.240
<v Speaker 2>those things. And it was Fleetwood who put the whole

1:15:47.240 --> 1:15:50.439
<v Speaker 2>thing together. And it was like Beck and Bramlet, Dave Mason,

1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:53.720
<v Speaker 2>all these people were in the audience all, you know.

1:15:53.920 --> 1:15:58.479
<v Speaker 2>And we got married and she was pregnant at the time,

1:15:58.479 --> 1:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and they made me marry her and I was happy

1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:02.880
<v Speaker 2>to and I shouldn't say maybe, but they created it.

1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:06.559
<v Speaker 2>And so he was at that one. He wasn't at

1:16:06.560 --> 1:16:11.599
<v Speaker 2>this last one, which was in twenty January twenty twenty

1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>with Dana, who I share a four year old son.

1:16:16.360 --> 1:16:20.960
<v Speaker 2>So I have I've had three boys. Neil was there.

1:16:21.040 --> 1:16:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Neil Finn was at that one.

1:16:22.960 --> 1:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>The second marriage. How long did that last?

1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Twelve years?

1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:29.120
<v Speaker 1>And why did that end?

1:16:32.080 --> 1:16:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Because my career was blowing up and I wasn't the

1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:37.719
<v Speaker 2>best best husband. I was a good father, I thought,

1:16:37.720 --> 1:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>but I think but I was gone the whole time.

1:16:42.120 --> 1:16:45.040
<v Speaker 2>I had influences around me that made me a little crazier,

1:16:45.360 --> 1:16:48.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, and my priorities might not have been in

1:16:48.400 --> 1:16:54.799
<v Speaker 2>the right place. And we still talk. You know, everything's

1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:56.439
<v Speaker 2>I you know.

1:16:56.640 --> 1:16:59.519
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So the present wife Dana, When and how did

1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:01.200
<v Speaker 1>you meet her? It's a good one.

1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:05.280
<v Speaker 2>It was fashion week in New York City. Zz Top

1:17:05.360 --> 1:17:11.519
<v Speaker 2>was playing the John Varvados show. There's a cat named Jordan,

1:17:11.640 --> 1:17:15.680
<v Speaker 2>she who ran Geffen, you know. And I was in

1:17:15.760 --> 1:17:20.960
<v Speaker 2>his office one day with Pete Jorn okay, and Jordan

1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:22.760
<v Speaker 2>pulled out a picture of his wife and next to

1:17:22.800 --> 1:17:25.639
<v Speaker 2>the wife was this girl, stunning girl. Who the hell

1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:30.240
<v Speaker 2>is that? And she goes, oh, that's Dana Rossi and

1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:34.479
<v Speaker 2>I said, wow, I want to meet her. And so

1:17:34.680 --> 1:17:37.280
<v Speaker 2>they hooked it up because she hadn't been be in Philadelphia,

1:17:37.640 --> 1:17:41.840
<v Speaker 2>where her parents were live, and she took the train

1:17:41.920 --> 1:17:43.960
<v Speaker 2>up to New York to come to the party, got

1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:46.479
<v Speaker 2>her hotel room. Because we didn't know each other, but

1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to meet her, you know. So she

1:17:48.360 --> 1:17:49.160
<v Speaker 2>came in for the night.

1:17:49.240 --> 1:17:50.880
<v Speaker 1>She was a model. What was she doing?

1:17:51.040 --> 1:17:54.800
<v Speaker 2>She was not a model. She owned a boutique in

1:17:54.920 --> 1:18:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Santa Monica called Dame and she's stopped. Yeah, she's really American, Italian,

1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:09.639
<v Speaker 2>American or whatever you call it, but really beautiful. And

1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:12.599
<v Speaker 2>it started there and she didn't like me in the beginning,

1:18:12.640 --> 1:18:16.400
<v Speaker 2>and I had to work on it and it ended

1:18:16.479 --> 1:18:18.599
<v Speaker 2>up and then we ended up getting married. And now

1:18:18.600 --> 1:18:21.400
<v Speaker 2>we have Rome and our four year old son, and

1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:25.760
<v Speaker 2>we live in Sun Valley, Idaho, and still have our

1:18:25.760 --> 1:18:29.160
<v Speaker 2>home in La, office in La Nashville, home in Nashville,

1:18:29.560 --> 1:18:33.120
<v Speaker 2>office in Nashville. But my four year old goes to

1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:35.720
<v Speaker 2>preschool in Sun Valley at a school called Community, which

1:18:35.720 --> 1:18:38.920
<v Speaker 2>is amazing school. And that's where they are all the time.

1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm there all the time unless I'm traveling on business.

1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I end up in Ketchum.

1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:51.480
<v Speaker 2>When I the end of from ninth grade to graduating

1:18:51.640 --> 1:18:56.200
<v Speaker 2>high school. I live in Seattle, Okay, and Ketchum harbors

1:18:56.240 --> 1:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of Seattleites, especially back in the day less

1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:03.559
<v Speaker 2>now now because more draw there. When I dropped out

1:19:03.600 --> 1:19:09.439
<v Speaker 2>of college Eastern Washington State College, I was a skier

1:19:09.520 --> 1:19:11.280
<v Speaker 2>all my life, you know, I was. I went to

1:19:11.280 --> 1:19:13.360
<v Speaker 2>private school in East Coast where we ski all day.

1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:14.599
<v Speaker 1>And where'd you go to private school?

1:19:14.800 --> 1:19:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I went to private school in New Jersey, actually a

1:19:19.000 --> 1:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>school called Farbro that had uh it was like a

1:19:23.000 --> 1:19:27.800
<v Speaker 2>school without walls, and so they had this guy John

1:19:27.840 --> 1:19:29.720
<v Speaker 2>franz And who was part of the Swiss ski team,

1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>who was a teacher. So he would bring me up

1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to Vermont and we would study till nine and then

1:19:35.760 --> 1:19:38.559
<v Speaker 2>I'd ski with him, and then we'd go back study

1:19:38.600 --> 1:19:40.640
<v Speaker 2>some more, and then we'd crash out and did that

1:19:40.720 --> 1:19:42.799
<v Speaker 2>for a month like every year type of thing. Okay.

1:19:44.600 --> 1:19:47.360
<v Speaker 2>And I was really into skiing, and so in Seattle,

1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:49.759
<v Speaker 2>I was really I was a teacher in tenth grades

1:19:50.280 --> 1:19:55.599
<v Speaker 2>teaching skiing, and and so I dropped out of college

1:19:55.600 --> 1:19:58.599
<v Speaker 2>and I said, well, I'm going to work in Seattle

1:19:58.600 --> 1:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>for a little bit, figure out what the hell I'm

1:19:59.720 --> 1:20:01.599
<v Speaker 2>going to do. But then I said, I'm going to Sunvalley,

1:20:01.600 --> 1:20:04.320
<v Speaker 2>going to Ketcham. So a couple, me and my friends

1:20:04.720 --> 1:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>go to Kitcham. I immediately get a job running Trail Creek,

1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:14.320
<v Speaker 2>which was Hemingway's ex fishing cabin. Okay, so I'm running that.

1:20:14.360 --> 1:20:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm young, you know, and they let me work nights

1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:18.200
<v Speaker 2>so I can skiet during day.

1:20:18.200 --> 1:20:18.360
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:20:18.360 --> 1:20:21.320
<v Speaker 2>I was one of these setups, you know. So I

1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:22.120
<v Speaker 2>loved Ketcham.

1:20:22.320 --> 1:20:23.519
<v Speaker 1>And what year are we in?

1:20:25.120 --> 1:20:30.479
<v Speaker 2>Eighty eighty one, I think? And I loved Ketcham, and

1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:34.960
<v Speaker 2>I left Ketcham to move to Vale, Colorado. But I

1:20:34.960 --> 1:20:36.200
<v Speaker 2>always knew at some point I was going.

1:20:36.160 --> 1:20:38.080
<v Speaker 1>To wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this is you know

1:20:38.120 --> 1:20:41.559
<v Speaker 1>you speak in my language. Why did you leave Sun

1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:44.439
<v Speaker 1>Valley for Vale?

1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, we were trying to think figure out a long

1:20:49.000 --> 1:20:53.479
<v Speaker 2>term plan for Carl, meaning my dad and I am home,

1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:58.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, and my dad knew. My dad knew the

1:20:58.840 --> 1:21:02.240
<v Speaker 2>president of United air Lines. At that time, United Airlines

1:21:02.280 --> 1:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>owned Weston Hotels and they were opening up brand new

1:21:05.240 --> 1:21:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Weston Hotel there. And why doesn't Carl become head of

1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:11.519
<v Speaker 2>food and beverage down in Vale Because he loves the

1:21:11.560 --> 1:21:15.280
<v Speaker 2>ski and he loves the mountains. They gave me that job.

1:21:15.360 --> 1:21:17.880
<v Speaker 2>I moved down there after two and a half three

1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:20.920
<v Speaker 2>years and Sun I moved down there and did that

1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:23.880
<v Speaker 2>for two years. But once again, I worked at nights

1:21:23.920 --> 1:21:25.280
<v Speaker 2>pretty much, so I skied every day.

1:21:25.600 --> 1:21:27.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back to the beginning. How did you

1:21:27.560 --> 1:21:28.920
<v Speaker 1>end up in Sun Valley? Now?

1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh, like I said, I was drempt of owning a

1:21:33.360 --> 1:21:39.599
<v Speaker 2>house there, and then h COVID hit and really before

1:21:39.640 --> 1:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>everyone started moving out of La I went up there

1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:48.559
<v Speaker 2>on a vacation with my wife. Okay, and it's a

1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:50.840
<v Speaker 2>good place to get away, open air, it'll be cool.

1:21:51.560 --> 1:21:55.800
<v Speaker 2>So Rob my real estate I call him up. He

1:21:55.960 --> 1:21:57.599
<v Speaker 2>wasn't my agent. Then this is the guy I meet,

1:21:57.680 --> 1:21:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, to sell some to the house. I go,

1:22:00.200 --> 1:22:02.000
<v Speaker 2>here's the deal. I only got two more days here.

1:22:02.200 --> 1:22:04.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to look at every house, every house, and

1:22:04.520 --> 1:22:06.639
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you I'm going to buy one. So show

1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:10.160
<v Speaker 2>me thirty houses in two days. He goes, Okay, dude, okay,

1:22:10.880 --> 1:22:13.839
<v Speaker 2>you showed me thirty houses. I bought one. We closed

1:22:13.840 --> 1:22:16.400
<v Speaker 2>a month later, and then Dana and I went up there.

1:22:16.439 --> 1:22:18.840
<v Speaker 2>It was August. Then Dana I went up there, said well,

1:22:18.880 --> 1:22:20.479
<v Speaker 2>let's get out of la and go to the new

1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:23.160
<v Speaker 2>house and open it up. And then we just never

1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:28.559
<v Speaker 2>left because Dana fell in love with Sun Valley catch them.

1:22:28.720 --> 1:22:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I always dreamt that that was going to be the plan.

1:22:31.520 --> 1:22:34.880
<v Speaker 2>We all learned how to work remotely, all right, Well,

1:22:34.920 --> 1:22:36.840
<v Speaker 2>when COVID's over, we'll figure out what we do. Well

1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:40.559
<v Speaker 2>COVID's over, I still couldn't work remotely. My clients live

1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:43.559
<v Speaker 2>around the world, not in La. Record companies are not

1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:45.800
<v Speaker 2>that important to me, or I have other people to

1:22:45.840 --> 1:22:48.360
<v Speaker 2>do it so it's easy. So I keep my house

1:22:48.400 --> 1:22:51.360
<v Speaker 2>in LA in Nashville, as I said earlier, and I

1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:55.200
<v Speaker 2>less two weeks ago in Nashville, freight days here in

1:22:55.360 --> 1:22:57.960
<v Speaker 2>LA for three weeks, and I go back to Sun Valley,

1:22:57.960 --> 1:22:59.679
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll come back four weeks later.

1:23:00.920 --> 1:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Generally speaking, in a year. How much you in Sun Valley, LA, Tennessee,

1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:07.320
<v Speaker 1>just on the road. How does it break down?

1:23:09.680 --> 1:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you factor in on the road too, you know,

1:23:13.160 --> 1:23:16.200
<v Speaker 2>outside of LA, and add that in the outside of LA,

1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>in Nashville, in Sun Valley, figure doing it, probably sixty

1:23:23.400 --> 1:23:25.679
<v Speaker 2>seventy in Sun Valley?

1:23:25.720 --> 1:23:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay? To what degree you know, there are other people

1:23:28.240 --> 1:23:30.680
<v Speaker 1>in this business who live in Sun Valley. To what

1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:32.920
<v Speaker 1>degree are you integrated? Are you just in your own world?

1:23:34.080 --> 1:23:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Here's what it started, that I wanted to be in

1:23:36.360 --> 1:23:40.000
<v Speaker 2>my own world, okay, and then people start talking that

1:23:40.120 --> 1:23:42.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm there and they don't really know me, but they

1:23:42.280 --> 1:23:44.479
<v Speaker 2>want to meet me, you know, that type of thing.

1:23:45.120 --> 1:23:51.240
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, for the first three years we

1:23:51.240 --> 1:23:55.560
<v Speaker 2>were secluded, okay, and then your sun starts going to preschool,

1:23:56.040 --> 1:24:00.799
<v Speaker 2>people start meeting you in restaurants, talking to you, and

1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:04.040
<v Speaker 2>then they start calling on you, you know, and they have

1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:07.439
<v Speaker 2>an idea you know or whatever, and so you get

1:24:07.520 --> 1:24:10.879
<v Speaker 2>involved in other things and all of a sudden Hebert

1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>a Fred you know, and you're walking down the street

1:24:13.240 --> 1:24:16.120
<v Speaker 2>and you know people and it's kind of a personality

1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:19.719
<v Speaker 2>I have too that I'm not. I'm not a dark

1:24:19.760 --> 1:24:22.439
<v Speaker 2>corner guy, you know, kind of kind of bright you know.

1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:26.479
<v Speaker 2>And so like we did that, we did the ear

1:24:26.560 --> 1:24:31.639
<v Speaker 2>Skiar the World Cup final. We're in sun Valley this year,

1:24:32.560 --> 1:24:37.519
<v Speaker 2>sunvill Catch them. These two people, the guy owns the Whiskey,

1:24:37.560 --> 1:24:41.400
<v Speaker 2>which is one restaurant brand, and Jenny Dupree wanted to

1:24:41.439 --> 1:24:45.559
<v Speaker 2>do a festival during that period. So they come to me,

1:24:46.160 --> 1:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>they say, will you help us? We want talent. You know,

1:24:48.880 --> 1:24:51.160
<v Speaker 2>we don't know what we're doing in that side that respect,

1:24:51.160 --> 1:24:54.799
<v Speaker 2>they knew how to plant it. Okay, all right, fine,

1:24:54.800 --> 1:24:57.200
<v Speaker 2>I'll help. And I put together all the entertainment and

1:24:57.240 --> 1:24:59.800
<v Speaker 2>the show and it was a big success to the show.

1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:03.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't know financially, but the event was successful,

1:25:03.760 --> 1:25:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, first time festival successful. So then I met

1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:10.040
<v Speaker 2>all these people around there and they saw what I

1:25:10.160 --> 1:25:11.960
<v Speaker 2>was helping there, well, will you help us with this?

1:25:12.040 --> 1:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>So it kind of snowballs and you know, people, but

1:25:16.520 --> 1:25:18.640
<v Speaker 2>the people are awesome there, you know, and it's like

1:25:18.920 --> 1:25:22.599
<v Speaker 2>it's really cool, you know, and it's really really unique

1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gathering of people. Funny story off subject. Okay, when I

1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:31.120
<v Speaker 2>first moved to La from Utah because I failed to Utah.

1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Then La, you moved to go skiing in Utah? Yeah? Yeah,

1:25:35.560 --> 1:25:37.200
<v Speaker 1>what'd you do in Utah? For how long?

1:25:37.600 --> 1:25:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I've worked in Salt Lake at the Hotel Utah, which

1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:44.120
<v Speaker 2>was which is a morning and they had a rooftop

1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:48.519
<v Speaker 2>restaurant called the Rooftop and there I met Robert Redford

1:25:48.520 --> 1:25:51.120
<v Speaker 2>eating or do O eating or whatever, you know, because

1:25:51.120 --> 1:25:54.439
<v Speaker 2>it was the only real spiffy place. But it didn't

1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:57.519
<v Speaker 2>open till like six. So I'd got a park city skiing,

1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:02.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, or wherever sundays Alta, you know. And so

1:26:04.040 --> 1:26:05.800
<v Speaker 2>but I wasn't there that long. I was only there

1:26:05.840 --> 1:26:06.519
<v Speaker 2>for a season.

1:26:06.640 --> 1:26:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Season.

1:26:07.880 --> 1:26:09.599
<v Speaker 2>So I go to LA and I need a job.

1:26:09.920 --> 1:26:12.599
<v Speaker 2>I moved to La not knowing anyone, not one person,

1:26:12.840 --> 1:26:16.559
<v Speaker 2>not one person on my own, and I'm staying at

1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:19.680
<v Speaker 2>a Western hotel because I had free room nights. And

1:26:19.840 --> 1:26:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I go in I apply for a job at the

1:26:23.280 --> 1:26:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Ruth Chris Ruth's Chris Steakhouse in Beverly Hills, Okay, and

1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:30.479
<v Speaker 2>the cat who owned it was a dude named Paul

1:26:30.520 --> 1:26:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Fleming who was from Arizona via New Orleans, Lafayette. And

1:26:38.000 --> 1:26:40.479
<v Speaker 2>they hired me. And that's where I met my first wife,

1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:45.640
<v Speaker 2>by the way, she ran the place. Okay, So so

1:26:45.640 --> 1:26:48.280
<v Speaker 2>I worked there, get in the music business. Blah blah blah.

1:26:48.760 --> 1:26:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Cut to Sun Valley, Okay, catch them. I'm talking to

1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Brandon who owns the whiskey, and he goes, dude, do

1:26:55.360 --> 1:26:59.280
<v Speaker 2>you know a dude named Paul Fleming? Yeah, well I

1:26:59.360 --> 1:27:03.040
<v Speaker 2>was probably you up to him and he said you

1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:04.519
<v Speaker 2>used to work for him, and go, yeah, I used

1:27:04.560 --> 1:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>to work, but well he lives up here too. Now

1:27:06.520 --> 1:27:09.480
<v Speaker 2>he goes, that dude thought you'd be dead by night,

1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:13.160
<v Speaker 2>but you were the best dress host they ever had

1:27:13.160 --> 1:27:16.040
<v Speaker 2>at a restaurant, okay, because I was always trying to

1:27:16.240 --> 1:27:19.120
<v Speaker 2>pimp and get in the world, you know, of entertainment

1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of the world, you know. And so now he and

1:27:21.920 --> 1:27:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I are in a restaurant, are going to be in

1:27:24.400 --> 1:27:27.080
<v Speaker 2>a restaurant together in some value, one of the classic

1:27:27.160 --> 1:27:29.800
<v Speaker 2>restaurants of all of Ketchum. And I don't know if

1:27:29.840 --> 1:27:33.760
<v Speaker 2>you've been to Ketchum, but oh yeah, Okay, where did

1:27:33.800 --> 1:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Hemingway eat his last meal?

1:27:35.680 --> 1:27:36.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1:27:36.600 --> 1:27:39.880
<v Speaker 2>A restaurant called Michelle's. He ate every night in Michelle's.

1:27:39.960 --> 1:27:43.760
<v Speaker 2>That kind of a frame thing. Okay, ate his meal,

1:27:43.840 --> 1:27:48.679
<v Speaker 2>went home, shot solf of the head. So we're dealing

1:27:48.720 --> 1:27:50.840
<v Speaker 2>with that, you know. So he's in business, but he's

1:27:50.880 --> 1:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>just blown away, you know. He goes, are you still

1:27:53.479 --> 1:27:55.479
<v Speaker 2>did you ever? Mary Carey? Yeah? I did for two

1:27:55.479 --> 1:27:58.760
<v Speaker 2>months and he he was laughing, and it's like, it's

1:27:58.800 --> 1:28:01.240
<v Speaker 2>so amazing how you meet people you know or other

1:28:01.320 --> 1:28:04.759
<v Speaker 2>people you know or are you know. It's such an

1:28:04.800 --> 1:28:10.519
<v Speaker 2>eclectic group of people. And it's like any vacation place,

1:28:10.840 --> 1:28:14.439
<v Speaker 2>whether it's the Outer Banks or get Cut or whatever. Okay,

1:28:14.479 --> 1:28:18.720
<v Speaker 2>there's the haves and have nots, Okay, which makes it

1:28:18.760 --> 1:28:21.920
<v Speaker 2>difficult for the have nots because the prices go up,

1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:24.599
<v Speaker 2>you know. But they're cool too, because all these servers

1:28:24.600 --> 1:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>I love, you know, and because I understand I can't.

1:28:27.200 --> 1:28:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I was a hustler, I get it, you know. But

1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:33.360
<v Speaker 2>then there's really successful people, you know, and which you

1:28:33.400 --> 1:28:35.720
<v Speaker 2>can learn from, you know. And so I have an

1:28:35.760 --> 1:28:40.120
<v Speaker 2>office in downtown ketch them. That's the shelter of Rocky

1:28:40.120 --> 1:28:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Mountain Office, and so it's it's fun.

1:28:52.520 --> 1:28:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what'd your parents do for a living?

1:28:55.680 --> 1:28:58.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm a I think we call it a corporate brat.

1:28:58.840 --> 1:28:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

1:29:00.120 --> 1:29:05.439
<v Speaker 2>My dad, at the age of eighteen, was installing phone

1:29:05.479 --> 1:29:10.559
<v Speaker 2>lines in southern Illinois, no, no, outside of Chicago as

1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:14.880
<v Speaker 2>a job. He came from German immigrant family, okay. And

1:29:16.760 --> 1:29:20.360
<v Speaker 2>he won some award as a student in high school.

1:29:20.520 --> 1:29:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Then he met the president, and then he was working

1:29:24.360 --> 1:29:26.880
<v Speaker 2>for AT and T or Illinois Bell or whatever it

1:29:26.920 --> 1:29:30.880
<v Speaker 2>was called there, and they said, this kid's great. So

1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:34.519
<v Speaker 2>he went from installing phones to being executive vice president

1:29:34.600 --> 1:29:38.200
<v Speaker 2>AT and T, and in doing so, we lived Seattle,

1:29:38.280 --> 1:29:39.160
<v Speaker 2>we lived in New Jersey.

1:29:39.200 --> 1:29:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait wait, executive vice president of AT and T

1:29:43.000 --> 1:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>the national corporation.

1:29:44.280 --> 1:29:46.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before the divestiture. Before you know, this is not

1:29:46.560 --> 1:29:47.160
<v Speaker 2>a Celtone.

1:29:47.240 --> 1:29:49.800
<v Speaker 1>There were a lot of steffs between installing fold lines

1:29:49.840 --> 1:29:51.240
<v Speaker 1>becoming executive view you know.

1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:56.439
<v Speaker 2>But went he worked for Illinois Bell, Pacific, Northwest Bell,

1:29:56.520 --> 1:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>going up the chain.

1:29:58.600 --> 1:30:01.040
<v Speaker 1>So what's his skill, because it's very hard to do,

1:30:01.080 --> 1:30:01.400
<v Speaker 1>ye know.

1:30:01.479 --> 1:30:04.120
<v Speaker 2>His skill was he was very intelligent, but he was

1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:07.400
<v Speaker 2>a people person, and they kept on putting him to

1:30:07.520 --> 1:30:10.880
<v Speaker 2>more school at and t Okay. So he went to

1:30:11.000 --> 1:30:15.040
<v Speaker 2>University of Illinois, he went to special school at Wharton,

1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>he went to Dartmouth for another part of his learning,

1:30:17.920 --> 1:30:20.760
<v Speaker 2>and they just kept on grooming this guy. And in

1:30:20.800 --> 1:30:24.720
<v Speaker 2>those days it was like that. It wasn't jumping companies.

1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:28.559
<v Speaker 2>And so he only worked for one company and retired

1:30:28.560 --> 1:30:33.479
<v Speaker 2>at sixty five his whole life. And so loyalty, you know,

1:30:33.520 --> 1:30:38.160
<v Speaker 2>and that. And plus mom was just mom, and we

1:30:38.240 --> 1:30:40.760
<v Speaker 2>had five kids, and she was able to move us

1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>every two years and she took care of us and

1:30:43.200 --> 1:30:45.200
<v Speaker 2>it was wonderful. So I had a great background.

1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:47.160
<v Speaker 1>So where are you in the hierarchy?

1:30:47.280 --> 1:30:49.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the middle, and what are the other ones

1:30:49.560 --> 1:30:55.240
<v Speaker 2>up to? Everyone's healthy and successful, you know. It's like

1:30:56.320 --> 1:31:00.479
<v Speaker 2>my brother James, the oldest. He is an attorney Seattle

1:31:00.920 --> 1:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>real estate, Transactional real Estate. My brother Todd lives down

1:31:06.400 --> 1:31:11.680
<v Speaker 2>here in Los Angeles and does events, produces events for

1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:14.639
<v Speaker 2>like Nissan and stuff like that. But that's what he likes.

1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:16.960
<v Speaker 2>It's his independent, doesn't have to work all the time

1:31:17.040 --> 1:31:22.960
<v Speaker 2>and has done well. My sister lives outside of Anatchi, Washington,

1:31:24.000 --> 1:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the wine business, okay. And my other sister, Erica lives

1:31:29.320 --> 1:31:31.599
<v Speaker 2>on cape Cod, where we spent most of our summers.

1:31:31.640 --> 1:31:33.840
<v Speaker 1>She has a house on Cape Cod. We're in gape Cod,

1:31:34.200 --> 1:31:37.880
<v Speaker 1>h Brewster. Okay, let me ask you this. There are

1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:40.560
<v Speaker 1>five kids in the family. Obviously, the older brother is

1:31:40.560 --> 1:31:43.679
<v Speaker 1>an attorney who graduated from college. Did the others graduate

1:31:43.680 --> 1:31:45.639
<v Speaker 1>in Podcasah, So you're the black sheep.

1:31:45.680 --> 1:31:47.320
<v Speaker 2>I am the only one who didn't graduate.

1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:50.200
<v Speaker 1>But are you, generally speaking, the black sheep in the family.

1:31:50.360 --> 1:31:50.439
<v Speaker 2>No?

1:31:51.200 --> 1:31:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Why the music business or entertay? Maybe it wasn't music,

1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:57.320
<v Speaker 1>maybe it was entertainment. What was it at first?

1:31:57.439 --> 1:32:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, for the two months or three months to college,

1:32:01.080 --> 1:32:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I was going to be an URTV major radio television major. Okay.

1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I was a high school DJ, you know. It was

1:32:08.360 --> 1:32:13.599
<v Speaker 2>DJing in college for those three months. But I hated college.

1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:17.679
<v Speaker 2>And I was a music freak, okay, and not because

1:32:17.720 --> 1:32:21.080
<v Speaker 2>I knew so much about it, but in high school,

1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:24.760
<v Speaker 2>every day after school we would find someone who had

1:32:24.760 --> 1:32:26.559
<v Speaker 2>a car. I would go down to a record store,

1:32:27.160 --> 1:32:30.519
<v Speaker 2>smoked up and thumb through the bins, you know, and

1:32:30.560 --> 1:32:33.360
<v Speaker 2>then hopefully once a month you could afford to go

1:32:33.400 --> 1:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to a shell and you'd stand in line at ten

1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:37.840
<v Speaker 2>am when the gate would open and you'd buy your

1:32:37.840 --> 1:32:39.840
<v Speaker 2>ticket then stand in line to the out door open.

1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:43.880
<v Speaker 2>And we were vested in our artists. Back then, it

1:32:43.960 --> 1:32:48.080
<v Speaker 2>was a totally different thing, and we didn't see our

1:32:48.200 --> 1:32:50.679
<v Speaker 2>artists unless you saw him live or on the back

1:32:50.720 --> 1:32:54.040
<v Speaker 2>of an LP, front of LP. Okay. So that excitement

1:32:54.479 --> 1:32:58.280
<v Speaker 2>of seeing Jesse, Colin Yell or you know whoever, you know,

1:32:58.439 --> 1:33:01.559
<v Speaker 2>it was just like Wow, that dude's cool, you know.

1:33:02.040 --> 1:33:04.519
<v Speaker 2>And so he bought into the art. I really bought

1:33:04.520 --> 1:33:09.080
<v Speaker 2>into it, and I loved music. So what happened was

1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:11.759
<v Speaker 2>I was working at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse and my brother

1:33:11.880 --> 1:33:15.080
<v Speaker 2>was down here and he opened up the Hollywood Reporters.

1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:16.960
<v Speaker 2>He came to my house and I'm on the roof

1:33:17.240 --> 1:33:19.920
<v Speaker 2>top of my place. I was living in Beverly Hills,

1:33:19.960 --> 1:33:22.800
<v Speaker 2>and he said, dude, look at this, this is you.

1:33:22.880 --> 1:33:24.320
<v Speaker 2>This is you. You got to do this. And it

1:33:24.479 --> 1:33:29.839
<v Speaker 2>was a catlecall advertisement for the mail room at Glamory.

1:33:30.280 --> 1:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>So well, I'm getting married next week, just let's go

1:33:33.880 --> 1:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>do it. So I go over there do it. I

1:33:36.080 --> 1:33:40.840
<v Speaker 2>was marrying carry Alice, whose father was herb Ellis, who

1:33:40.920 --> 1:33:47.000
<v Speaker 2>was a great jazz guitarist herbalus So Jim Moury and

1:33:47.120 --> 1:33:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Sandy both knew who Herb was and s yeah, I'm

1:33:49.360 --> 1:33:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Mary carry Alice Herbs. Well you're hired, dude. Sure, And

1:33:53.960 --> 1:33:57.080
<v Speaker 2>then I say to Jim. I go, Jim, there's one issue.

1:33:57.240 --> 1:33:59.960
<v Speaker 2>He goes, what's the issue? I go, I can't stop

1:34:00.240 --> 1:34:02.080
<v Speaker 2>for four weeks because I'm getting married. Then I'm going

1:34:02.080 --> 1:34:04.519
<v Speaker 2>to Saint Barts in Saint Martin's. Well you still have

1:34:04.560 --> 1:34:06.439
<v Speaker 2>the job for me. They looked at me, they said, too,

1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:09.000
<v Speaker 2>if you got some balls, I go, all right, we'll

1:34:09.040 --> 1:34:11.200
<v Speaker 2>hold the job for you. So I came back and

1:34:11.240 --> 1:34:13.679
<v Speaker 2>started the job, and things just happened.

1:34:13.720 --> 1:34:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, you're working at Gallan Morey at the time.

1:34:17.560 --> 1:34:18.920
<v Speaker 1>How many people are working there?

1:34:19.400 --> 1:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I can count the offices cale pressman one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

1:34:26.120 --> 1:34:30.760
<v Speaker 2>eight nine to about about about fourteen, And what was

1:34:30.800 --> 1:34:33.960
<v Speaker 2>your gig mail room? I would go buy every desk

1:34:34.240 --> 1:34:37.400
<v Speaker 2>and collect the mail. Back then there was faxes, print

1:34:37.439 --> 1:34:43.639
<v Speaker 2>the foxes or copy the foxes. And then I would

1:34:43.640 --> 1:34:46.760
<v Speaker 2>get a call from Sandy's assistant saying, hey, you got

1:34:46.760 --> 1:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>to go down to Farah Fawcett's house and deliver the script.

1:34:50.479 --> 1:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>No way, dude, really sweet sweet or Streisand's house or yeah,

1:34:57.000 --> 1:34:59.000
<v Speaker 2>there's a great there's a great story. And you know,

1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:02.680
<v Speaker 2>I got a got hired for the wedding, but I

1:35:02.720 --> 1:35:07.320
<v Speaker 2>really started in November, okay, and Dolly Parton to a

1:35:07.400 --> 1:35:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Christmas party at Sandy's house all the time, okay, and

1:35:10.080 --> 1:35:13.680
<v Speaker 2>they would import snow from the mountains all this, and

1:35:13.760 --> 1:35:17.679
<v Speaker 2>so Sandy goes, hey, can you come to the party.

1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I go, yeah, for sure, dude, I'm there. And some

1:35:22.240 --> 1:35:25.200
<v Speaker 2>I probably was serving him a McDonald's hamburger, taking off

1:35:25.240 --> 1:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the pickle, so something like that. Menial shit. Okay, So

1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:31.559
<v Speaker 2>I dude, honey, I hadn't been divorce. Shit, honey, We're

1:35:31.600 --> 1:35:34.559
<v Speaker 2>going to Dolly Parton's Christmas party. We go and the

1:35:34.600 --> 1:35:36.479
<v Speaker 2>whole thing was no, he wanted me to work the

1:35:36.479 --> 1:35:39.680
<v Speaker 2>party the front door, and it was so embarrassing to me.

1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay. But what happened was once everyone

1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:45.000
<v Speaker 2>was in, I went to a round tablet ten by

1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the pool and it was like quincy, all these people

1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:52.040
<v Speaker 2>and I just pretended like I knew everyone wast hanging

1:35:52.040 --> 1:35:54.479
<v Speaker 2>out with the like hey, how you doing. And so

1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:56.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a great story because it was so humiliating, but

1:35:56.960 --> 1:35:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I made the best of.

1:35:57.680 --> 1:36:01.439
<v Speaker 1>It, exactly why did you break up with the first life.

1:36:02.439 --> 1:36:05.880
<v Speaker 2>I went out with Dice on the road, and I

1:36:05.960 --> 1:36:08.519
<v Speaker 2>came back and realized I got too married too early,

1:36:10.200 --> 1:36:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and there's this whole new world opening up for me,

1:36:13.000 --> 1:36:15.800
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think I can really focus on this

1:36:15.840 --> 1:36:18.000
<v Speaker 2>when I've got this, and I really think I can

1:36:18.080 --> 1:36:21.000
<v Speaker 2>do this, you know. So it was a selfish kind

1:36:21.000 --> 1:36:25.320
<v Speaker 2>of move. But she didn't like the fact that I

1:36:25.360 --> 1:36:27.360
<v Speaker 2>was getting into the music business because her dad was

1:36:27.360 --> 1:36:28.320
<v Speaker 2>in the music business.

1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:28.559
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:36:28.640 --> 1:36:31.680
<v Speaker 2>She wanted me to be a restauranteur or whatever it is. Okay,

1:36:31.760 --> 1:36:35.920
<v Speaker 2>So I think she was relieved and we parted great

1:36:35.920 --> 1:36:39.680
<v Speaker 2>friends and she knows people in my world still, and.

1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:42.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's all good. And I thought, okay, so

1:36:42.400 --> 1:36:45.040
<v Speaker 1>you're in the mail room. It's well known that's getting

1:36:45.080 --> 1:36:47.680
<v Speaker 1>your foot in the door. When do you actually do

1:36:47.760 --> 1:36:52.120
<v Speaker 1>more than deliver mail? And within a month and you're

1:36:52.160 --> 1:36:52.680
<v Speaker 1>doing what.

1:36:53.960 --> 1:36:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Barry Josephson was still there, and he he did an assistant.

1:36:59.040 --> 1:37:02.280
<v Speaker 2>So he put me at his desk as his assistant,

1:37:02.360 --> 1:37:06.879
<v Speaker 2>which was a horrifying situation. A I couldn't type, okay,

1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:10.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, so I'm taking messages, dialing the phones back

1:37:10.360 --> 1:37:12.960
<v Speaker 2>in the old days, you know, rolling calls for him

1:37:13.640 --> 1:37:17.200
<v Speaker 2>and uh, trying to deal with problems that I knew

1:37:17.240 --> 1:37:19.599
<v Speaker 2>nothing about, Okay, because it happened to so quick, and

1:37:19.640 --> 1:37:23.960
<v Speaker 2>so I was terrible. But what happened was all his

1:37:24.120 --> 1:37:28.400
<v Speaker 2>clients loved me, so he had to deal with me, okay,

1:37:29.400 --> 1:37:33.160
<v Speaker 2>and and he was a very hard boss, but they

1:37:33.200 --> 1:37:35.240
<v Speaker 2>all were back then. You know, it was a different

1:37:35.280 --> 1:37:39.200
<v Speaker 2>world where they could abuse you, like, here's your Christmas bonus,

1:37:39.240 --> 1:37:41.760
<v Speaker 2>like one hundred and one dollar bills, Throw them on

1:37:41.760 --> 1:37:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the floor and I'll pick it up and get out

1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:47.439
<v Speaker 2>of you. That kind of attitude. Okay. There's that movie

1:37:47.439 --> 1:37:51.040
<v Speaker 2>with Kevin Spacey and what's his name about a guy

1:37:51.080 --> 1:37:54.080
<v Speaker 2>in the mail. Yeah, so that was really written by

1:37:54.080 --> 1:37:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the guy who replaced me at that desk. Okay, who

1:37:57.479 --> 1:38:00.720
<v Speaker 2>wrote that? So that was his experience. Okay, So it's

1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:06.080
<v Speaker 2>like that. But then Barry leaves and there needed to

1:38:06.120 --> 1:38:12.000
<v Speaker 2>be someone to help with his clients that stayed Dice, okay,

1:38:12.640 --> 1:38:20.360
<v Speaker 2>and so bye bye. Three months in that could be

1:38:20.400 --> 1:38:24.000
<v Speaker 2>off a month. Three months in, Dice pulls me out

1:38:24.040 --> 1:38:26.519
<v Speaker 2>of that office, says here with me. Oh, this is

1:38:26.520 --> 1:38:28.559
<v Speaker 2>gonna be fun. You know, it's a great I'm gonna

1:38:28.600 --> 1:38:32.080
<v Speaker 2>learn every aspect of the business over a year. You know,

1:38:32.520 --> 1:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll be involved in shooting Ford Fairley in the movie

1:38:35.000 --> 1:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>for twentieth Century Fox. We have an ABC deal we're

1:38:37.960 --> 1:38:41.080
<v Speaker 2>going to get We're going out on tour. Dennis Arfa

1:38:41.360 --> 1:38:43.680
<v Speaker 2>great agent, is his agent, so I'm going to be

1:38:43.720 --> 1:38:46.320
<v Speaker 2>around him. Rick Rubin's going to produce the record. So

1:38:46.320 --> 1:38:48.720
<v Speaker 2>I got all this experience in a short period of time.

1:38:49.280 --> 1:38:50.960
<v Speaker 2>So I was fortunate.

1:38:51.080 --> 1:38:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Dice had this unbelievable vertical ascension. Then he theoretically

1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:04.040
<v Speaker 1>got being from him to then he was over. Then

1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:06.759
<v Speaker 1>he came back, you know, on TV for a while.

1:39:07.280 --> 1:39:11.040
<v Speaker 1>What is misunderstood or what were the missteps by Dice?

1:39:16.960 --> 1:39:20.000
<v Speaker 2>When I started with Dice were Here's Comedy Store, okay.

1:39:20.080 --> 1:39:22.400
<v Speaker 2>And then we did the Beacon Theater for New Year's

1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Eve for HBO okay, and that kicked it in. And

1:39:25.920 --> 1:39:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I was still an assistant for that HBO show. And

1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:36.240
<v Speaker 2>then it was January after that, and his his stick

1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:40.000
<v Speaker 2>was so unique and so raw and so offensive and

1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>politically incorrect. Before there was politically incorrect, But there was

1:39:45.040 --> 1:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>this change happening in the entertainment industry where it was

1:39:49.880 --> 1:39:54.519
<v Speaker 2>becoming politically incorrect, especially because the people that were running

1:39:54.560 --> 1:40:02.479
<v Speaker 2>the business, Sandy, Barry Diller, David Geffen, Okay, so he

1:40:02.560 --> 1:40:07.160
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't stop himself from going farther and farther. And also

1:40:07.240 --> 1:40:11.400
<v Speaker 2>what happened was we were doing what was it, the

1:40:11.479 --> 1:40:15.240
<v Speaker 2>MTV thing or whatever, and Dick Clark was producing it,

1:40:15.439 --> 1:40:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm on the side of the stage. It goes,

1:40:19.400 --> 1:40:22.120
<v Speaker 2>we're running short. We need you to stretch your material,

1:40:22.680 --> 1:40:24.800
<v Speaker 2>and we had to clear the material with television because

1:40:24.840 --> 1:40:31.200
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't curse, okay, and it flipped Dice out, not anger,

1:40:31.520 --> 1:40:33.519
<v Speaker 2>just fear because he didn't know how to stretch. You know,

1:40:33.520 --> 1:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a comedian works on the tight ten or tight twenty,

1:40:36.040 --> 1:40:38.640
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is. So he had to ad lib and

1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:42.320
<v Speaker 2>he went into protection mode and went into the dark

1:40:42.360 --> 1:40:45.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff and cursing and you know, lighting Cerrante on stage

1:40:46.040 --> 1:40:49.639
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it was, and sudden the Redstone is dialing

1:40:49.720 --> 1:40:52.759
<v Speaker 2>in said get him off the stage. He's blackball bloomoom

1:40:52.760 --> 1:40:55.000
<v Speaker 2>boom boom. And from that point on it just kept

1:40:55.000 --> 1:40:59.320
<v Speaker 2>on crippling down, you know. But it was an amazing

1:40:59.600 --> 1:41:01.960
<v Speaker 2>running had and I got there. I had a lot

1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:04.360
<v Speaker 2>of fun with the guy. I mean, here's a guy

1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:10.320
<v Speaker 2>that got really fortunate, stayed at it, believed in it,

1:41:10.960 --> 1:41:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and once again McDonald's. You know. Theory is people knew

1:41:16.040 --> 1:41:17.559
<v Speaker 2>what they were getting when they went to his show,

1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and they loved it, you know, and he stayed to

1:41:19.840 --> 1:41:27.639
<v Speaker 2>that and he was really good to me and his parents. Freddy,

1:41:27.720 --> 1:41:30.559
<v Speaker 2>it was it was awesome to me, and you know,

1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:33.200
<v Speaker 2>it was just such an amazing experience. And he was

1:41:33.360 --> 1:41:36.120
<v Speaker 2>he was a good guy. He was basically a sober

1:41:36.160 --> 1:41:39.280
<v Speaker 2>guy out of just not trying to be sober, but

1:41:39.560 --> 1:41:41.760
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't partying and he didn't do anything, you know,

1:41:42.520 --> 1:41:44.000
<v Speaker 2>and so it was great. You know, it was a

1:41:44.040 --> 1:41:46.760
<v Speaker 2>great dealing with them. I had great footage of just

1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:49.160
<v Speaker 2>us on a tour bus together or whatever. It just

1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:52.719
<v Speaker 2>was a moment and it was fantastic. It failed because

1:41:53.600 --> 1:41:55.639
<v Speaker 2>he was put in a situation that he couldn't handle

1:41:55.880 --> 1:41:57.840
<v Speaker 2>and that was the beginning of the end. That night

1:41:57.920 --> 1:41:58.800
<v Speaker 2>was the beginning of the end.

1:41:59.240 --> 1:42:01.600
<v Speaker 1>So did with you and Dice? And what did you

1:42:01.680 --> 1:42:02.280
<v Speaker 1>do next?

1:42:02.600 --> 1:42:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, maybe it depends on who you ask. How how

1:42:04.800 --> 1:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>I look at it is is that I we found

1:42:11.760 --> 1:42:18.200
<v Speaker 2>a comedian in Kansas City who did fairly well. Eddie Griffin,

1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Fast Eddie a bunch of Joel Silver movies. Stand up.

1:42:22.000 --> 1:42:24.960
<v Speaker 2>He's a great funny guy. Okay, we find Eddie while

1:42:25.000 --> 1:42:29.320
<v Speaker 2>we're on the road, Eddie. I'm managing Eddie. Now, Okay,

1:42:29.960 --> 1:42:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Eddie starts kind of happening. Dice is kind of you know,

1:42:34.080 --> 1:42:39.360
<v Speaker 2>slowing down. And he didn't like the fact that I

1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>managed Eddie, and I said, well, fine, you know, love you, Dice.

1:42:46.240 --> 1:42:50.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm ag Eddie. And that was, you know, before I

1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:52.759
<v Speaker 2>got into music business. Really I was in the comedy world.

1:42:53.040 --> 1:42:57.760
<v Speaker 2>So that happened. Then the Eddie thing didn't work out,

1:42:58.000 --> 1:43:01.000
<v Speaker 2>even though like he lived in my office, you know,

1:43:01.080 --> 1:43:03.240
<v Speaker 2>and he was just starving, you know, and I'd feed

1:43:03.320 --> 1:43:05.960
<v Speaker 2>him and get his teeth work done or whatever, you know.

1:43:06.200 --> 1:43:09.880
<v Speaker 2>And that didn't work out. And so I was looking

1:43:09.920 --> 1:43:12.479
<v Speaker 2>for my next entertainment thing and it was a It

1:43:12.520 --> 1:43:14.760
<v Speaker 2>was with a guy named Matt Robinson.

1:43:15.520 --> 1:43:16.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you know Matt.

1:43:16.520 --> 1:43:20.000
<v Speaker 2>He was a DJ and we had he had clubs,

1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:23.840
<v Speaker 2>portable clubs, you know, move around clubs, peace posse and

1:43:23.920 --> 1:43:26.880
<v Speaker 2>all these things back in the early nineties. And he

1:43:26.960 --> 1:43:30.040
<v Speaker 2>needed like a business partner kind of as he was unorganized.

1:43:30.080 --> 1:43:32.920
<v Speaker 2>And so he and I were working and we had

1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:37.000
<v Speaker 2>a club every Friday night on Pico at the Chicken Shack,

1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it was called. And a lot of celebrities

1:43:40.000 --> 1:43:42.320
<v Speaker 2>were coming to our club. We had great DJs and

1:43:42.360 --> 1:43:45.680
<v Speaker 2>it was kind of dance hall, hip hop, reggae kind

1:43:45.680 --> 1:43:49.400
<v Speaker 2>of club. It was cool back then. Chris Blackwell would

1:43:49.439 --> 1:43:52.200
<v Speaker 2>come into the club. So Blackwell gave us our own

1:43:52.360 --> 1:43:57.400
<v Speaker 2>record label, Peace Polsey Records, and there's an We signed Ikamause,

1:43:57.439 --> 1:44:01.840
<v Speaker 2>who was a dance hall awesome guy, crazy dude. And

1:44:01.880 --> 1:44:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I did that for like a year and a half,

1:44:03.320 --> 1:44:05.000
<v Speaker 2>two years, but the label never worked and I was

1:44:05.040 --> 1:44:11.479
<v Speaker 2>getting bored and restless, and that's kind of you know,

1:44:12.160 --> 1:44:17.640
<v Speaker 2>around the time I met Mick and and I was

1:44:17.720 --> 1:44:21.439
<v Speaker 2>working with some other another gal. We were partners as

1:44:21.520 --> 1:44:23.519
<v Speaker 2>managers type of thing trying to make and she had

1:44:24.400 --> 1:44:28.479
<v Speaker 2>Delight and I was doing some stuff for the Fix,

1:44:28.640 --> 1:44:31.479
<v Speaker 2>and then it was Fleetwood and then it just kept

1:44:31.520 --> 1:44:37.400
<v Speaker 2>on going, the Cult, House of Pain Everthelass, Boston White Take,

1:44:38.200 --> 1:44:42.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, Tommy Zzy, It just kept on going.

1:44:42.400 --> 1:44:45.400
<v Speaker 1>So how'd you get involved with the Sanctuary guys?

1:44:45.800 --> 1:44:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Merk saw that I was making money, you know money,

1:44:51.439 --> 1:44:55.479
<v Speaker 2>and I had very strong roster for a manager coming

1:44:55.520 --> 1:45:00.160
<v Speaker 2>into that place, okay, and he knew I I had

1:45:00.160 --> 1:45:03.519
<v Speaker 2>a big tour coming up with so he wanted to

1:45:03.520 --> 1:45:08.800
<v Speaker 2>buy into that revenue. So he bought in and then

1:45:09.080 --> 1:45:12.800
<v Speaker 2>made me co president with Peter Asher right down when

1:45:12.800 --> 1:45:19.960
<v Speaker 2>he bought in, and then Merk I had to leave, okay,

1:45:20.120 --> 1:45:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and they made me seeeo or champed to see you

1:45:24.640 --> 1:45:26.440
<v Speaker 2>of Sanctuary and it was really.

1:45:26.520 --> 1:45:29.519
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, just to be clear, when you start, is

1:45:29.800 --> 1:45:32.240
<v Speaker 1>already owned by Universal? No?

1:45:32.240 --> 1:45:35.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I started when it was dealing.

1:45:35.360 --> 1:45:37.600
<v Speaker 1>But it was already public when you were Yes, it

1:45:37.640 --> 1:45:38.160
<v Speaker 1>was public.

1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1:45:39.439 --> 1:45:42.719
<v Speaker 1>How long did you work there before it was sold

1:45:42.720 --> 1:45:43.440
<v Speaker 1>to Universal?

1:45:43.680 --> 1:45:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Five years?

1:45:46.479 --> 1:45:47.599
<v Speaker 1>So tell us about Merk.

1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:54.439
<v Speaker 2>Did you read his new Yeah? I did, Okay, Yeah,

1:45:56.560 --> 1:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>he and I are two totally two different people, Okay,

1:45:59.080 --> 1:46:05.240
<v Speaker 2>as far as our philosophies, the way we operate, he said, dude,

1:46:05.600 --> 1:46:09.559
<v Speaker 2>that will always find a way to land on his feet.

1:46:09.920 --> 1:46:15.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily agree with how he ran Sanctuary, and

1:46:15.880 --> 1:46:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to make sure if I ever did a

1:46:17.320 --> 1:46:19.480
<v Speaker 2>company it was polar opposite of Sanctuary.

1:46:19.560 --> 1:46:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Seriously, just to be clear, how was it run?

1:46:24.360 --> 1:46:29.760
<v Speaker 2>He made deals based on the next six months year

1:46:29.920 --> 1:46:35.560
<v Speaker 2>with managers. Okay, not how great that manager is and

1:46:35.920 --> 1:46:38.720
<v Speaker 2>this isn't my opinion. He has done extremely well, so

1:46:38.760 --> 1:46:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I could be totally off. But he was not ever

1:46:42.120 --> 1:46:45.160
<v Speaker 2>worried about a year from now. It was really like

1:46:45.200 --> 1:46:49.439
<v Speaker 2>I said that quarter or that half year, okay. And

1:46:50.439 --> 1:46:53.879
<v Speaker 2>my philosophy, as I said earlier on, was long term,

1:46:53.920 --> 1:47:00.080
<v Speaker 2>long term. We can sustain long term. So that and

1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:03.360
<v Speaker 2>I questioned the other managers there, and I know a

1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:06.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of them and I like them, but you know,

1:47:06.160 --> 1:47:14.200
<v Speaker 2>it's like huh, and and we accounted to things differently, okay.

1:47:14.600 --> 1:47:20.040
<v Speaker 2>And so when he moved on the board, brought me

1:47:20.080 --> 1:47:23.599
<v Speaker 2>to London and asked me if i'd help them get

1:47:23.640 --> 1:47:26.240
<v Speaker 2>it to a point where we could have someone buy

1:47:26.280 --> 1:47:29.679
<v Speaker 2>it off the street. Okay, and I did. But murk

1:47:29.840 --> 1:47:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Is is a unique person. I think he knows music.

1:47:33.920 --> 1:47:35.439
<v Speaker 2>He's a music fan for sure.

1:47:35.720 --> 1:47:36.240
<v Speaker 1>That's sure.

1:47:36.720 --> 1:47:42.040
<v Speaker 2>He knows it, he cares about it. But there's other

1:47:42.120 --> 1:47:45.760
<v Speaker 2>influences in the way he conducts his business. Okay, that's

1:47:45.800 --> 1:47:47.880
<v Speaker 2>in his own head.

1:47:48.280 --> 1:47:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back. What's different now that it's sold

1:47:51.960 --> 1:47:54.840
<v Speaker 1>to Universal? What's different about working a Universal? Why do

1:47:54.880 --> 1:47:55.599
<v Speaker 1>you have to get out?

1:47:58.000 --> 1:48:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't think at that point Labels Lucian understood what

1:48:08.680 --> 1:48:13.160
<v Speaker 2>I did, okay, and really understood the music business. I

1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:17.600
<v Speaker 2>think they were more a business once again of the immediate.

1:48:18.040 --> 1:48:21.320
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think Lucien ever understood why I would

1:48:21.360 --> 1:48:25.160
<v Speaker 2>manage is Easy or Fleewood Mac No No, find me

1:48:25.200 --> 1:48:28.759
<v Speaker 2>a Gaga, Find me a Gaga. Okay, forget the old mans,

1:48:30.040 --> 1:48:34.840
<v Speaker 2>but the old mans are making me a lot every year,

1:48:35.160 --> 1:48:39.439
<v Speaker 2>like more than looking for Gaga. That company won't sustain itself,

1:48:39.479 --> 1:48:41.200
<v Speaker 2>and then I'm fired. I don't want to do that,

1:48:41.320 --> 1:48:43.760
<v Speaker 2>you know. And it wasn't hard conversation. It was just

1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:48.920
<v Speaker 2>a different philosophical way of doing things. So I wanted

1:48:49.040 --> 1:48:53.200
<v Speaker 2>out and I got out thanks to help from Herring,

1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:57.680
<v Speaker 2>you know. And I just kind of did my own

1:48:57.760 --> 1:49:00.599
<v Speaker 2>thing with my bands that have been with me ever.

1:49:00.960 --> 1:49:06.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like until Heartwick, you know, just knocked

1:49:06.400 --> 1:49:06.880
<v Speaker 2>on my door.

1:49:14.600 --> 1:49:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's jump to today. You're making a deal with

1:49:19.600 --> 1:49:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the label. You know, we went through the old school.

1:49:23.240 --> 1:49:27.040
<v Speaker 1>We went through twenty first century, three sixty deals. Now

1:49:27.080 --> 1:49:32.040
<v Speaker 1>there's leverage because you might have a TikTok success. How

1:49:32.040 --> 1:49:34.160
<v Speaker 1>have you found the deals changed? And what are the

1:49:34.160 --> 1:49:36.520
<v Speaker 1>deals today?

1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Deals are one don't come with the same advance okay,

1:49:44.800 --> 1:49:49.960
<v Speaker 2>a lesser marketing commitment, okay, a lesser commitment to the

1:49:49.960 --> 1:49:54.880
<v Speaker 2>individual the artist, and you're really hoping you throw something

1:49:54.880 --> 1:49:58.160
<v Speaker 2>against the wall and it works, you know, but that

1:49:58.520 --> 1:50:01.719
<v Speaker 2>doesn't change how we think. But that's what the label thinks. Okay.

1:50:01.760 --> 1:50:04.320
<v Speaker 1>And you have to cough up any rights beyond just

1:50:04.360 --> 1:50:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the raw recordings, and you can you get those back?

1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Can you have re record? What are your deals like

1:50:10.640 --> 1:50:11.799
<v Speaker 1>with all this deal.

1:50:11.800 --> 1:50:14.639
<v Speaker 2>The deals now are more licensing deals for a term,

1:50:14.800 --> 1:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>a ten year term. Then everything reverts back to you. Okay,

1:50:20.560 --> 1:50:23.120
<v Speaker 2>and the re record rights followed that term usually.

1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let me go back a step. You talk about, well,

1:50:26.400 --> 1:50:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I went to NBC. I'm doing this special. You're a

1:50:30.360 --> 1:50:34.480
<v Speaker 1>guy who works in restaurants. You say you're a hustler.

1:50:35.040 --> 1:50:37.160
<v Speaker 1>It's not like you grew up in the business and

1:50:37.200 --> 1:50:40.040
<v Speaker 1>your you know, your father's friends came to the house,

1:50:40.040 --> 1:50:43.760
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. No, how did you make these relationships and

1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:45.920
<v Speaker 1>how did you make these deals? And how do you

1:50:45.960 --> 1:50:46.599
<v Speaker 1>do it today?

1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I learned quickly, okay. But how I was able to

1:50:54.800 --> 1:51:01.479
<v Speaker 2>function in that world? You know? Early on, when I

1:51:01.520 --> 1:51:05.760
<v Speaker 2>was in the restaurant business in La I would go

1:51:05.840 --> 1:51:09.479
<v Speaker 2>to the right places, and I happened to meet certain

1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:14.639
<v Speaker 2>people that were artists okay, that liked me and tagged

1:51:14.640 --> 1:51:18.640
<v Speaker 2>me along, okay, And whether it was hanging out Roxbury

1:51:18.680 --> 1:51:24.120
<v Speaker 2>if you remember Roxbury, you know, or whatever club, China Club,

1:51:24.160 --> 1:51:26.479
<v Speaker 2>whatever you know, and I was always there with the

1:51:26.560 --> 1:51:28.720
<v Speaker 2>right people. And they grew and I grew and a

1:51:28.760 --> 1:51:34.080
<v Speaker 2>group and I I look at myself. This is a

1:51:34.160 --> 1:51:38.240
<v Speaker 2>dis on myself. Okay. When I was a skier, my

1:51:38.360 --> 1:51:42.240
<v Speaker 2>name was in Carl. I was called c W, which

1:51:42.280 --> 1:51:45.200
<v Speaker 2>is my initials. My father called me that, my mother,

1:51:45.320 --> 1:51:47.640
<v Speaker 2>every friend I still have back then calls me that.

1:51:48.479 --> 1:51:51.200
<v Speaker 2>When I came to La, basically I changed to Carl,

1:51:51.720 --> 1:51:54.240
<v Speaker 2>and I put on an act just to be able

1:51:54.240 --> 1:51:57.240
<v Speaker 2>to fit in. But I learned that act by moving

1:51:57.280 --> 1:51:59.920
<v Speaker 2>around with my father, parents and family. Because when you

1:52:00.080 --> 1:52:03.519
<v Speaker 2>move from Seattle to Jersey, totally different. You're not You're

1:52:03.520 --> 1:52:08.000
<v Speaker 2>not wearing swabies, You're wearing Levi's and ducksiders okay, new wardrobe,

1:52:08.160 --> 1:52:12.080
<v Speaker 2>you know. So so I know I acted this role,

1:52:12.160 --> 1:52:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that I knew what I was doing, and that that

1:52:14.920 --> 1:52:18.680
<v Speaker 2>that I fit in with this culture, this world. And

1:52:19.240 --> 1:52:21.800
<v Speaker 2>in doing so, you open your ears and you hear

1:52:21.840 --> 1:52:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of stuff, and you're willing to learn, and

1:52:24.000 --> 1:52:25.920
<v Speaker 2>you never pretend like you know everything, but you do

1:52:26.120 --> 1:52:27.960
<v Speaker 2>live in that world. And it just kind of worked

1:52:28.000 --> 1:52:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that way.

1:52:28.720 --> 1:52:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's assume your brainstorming in the office, we're virtually however,

1:52:33.560 --> 1:52:35.760
<v Speaker 1>you do it and you go, you know, we need

1:52:35.800 --> 1:52:39.240
<v Speaker 1>a TV special on this, or we need a movie.

1:52:38.880 --> 1:52:43.120
<v Speaker 1>You have the concept. Do you then work backward and say,

1:52:43.160 --> 1:52:45.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, I know so and so. Who knows so

1:52:45.720 --> 1:52:49.120
<v Speaker 1>and so will put me together? Where do you say? Oh,

1:52:49.600 --> 1:52:54.519
<v Speaker 1>that's Netflix, that's Hulu, that's NBC, this is the person

1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:57.280
<v Speaker 1>who runs it. Let me cold call them.

1:52:57.600 --> 1:53:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, it can work like that, and it's also can

1:53:00.360 --> 1:53:05.200
<v Speaker 2>work that. If it's today not when I was younger,

1:53:05.360 --> 1:53:09.320
<v Speaker 2>it's different. So I'll call CI or William Morris and

1:53:09.360 --> 1:53:11.880
<v Speaker 2>this is my idea, put together ten meetings for me.

1:53:12.280 --> 1:53:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Then I'll go take the meetings. Okay. If it's you know,

1:53:16.680 --> 1:53:20.120
<v Speaker 2>if it was like Rockstar Super and Ova with Mark

1:53:20.120 --> 1:53:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Burnett at CBS produced, it came up with it with Mark.

1:53:25.120 --> 1:53:27.240
<v Speaker 2>It was not just called Mark, you know, and talk

1:53:27.320 --> 1:53:29.160
<v Speaker 2>to Mark about it, you know, because I'd met him

1:53:29.240 --> 1:53:32.720
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it was. You know, it all depends, you know,

1:53:33.200 --> 1:53:35.400
<v Speaker 2>where we're going with the project, what type of project

1:53:35.479 --> 1:53:39.240
<v Speaker 2>it is, and where it fits with the NBC show

1:53:40.240 --> 1:53:44.759
<v Speaker 2>it was. I hired a showrunner who handled them setting

1:53:44.800 --> 1:53:46.959
<v Speaker 2>up the meetings, and I would show to the meetings

1:53:47.560 --> 1:53:50.080
<v Speaker 2>because I knew how to sell what my view was,

1:53:50.760 --> 1:53:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and that's how it was done. I would show up

1:53:52.800 --> 1:53:54.880
<v Speaker 2>and I'd be there, and I'd come up and create it.

1:53:54.960 --> 1:54:00.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know, wine or liquor spirits. I know

1:54:00.800 --> 1:54:03.799
<v Speaker 2>people in that world, you know, So I'll make the call.

1:54:04.439 --> 1:54:08.439
<v Speaker 2>It all depends on what. But yeah, let me help

1:54:08.479 --> 1:54:11.120
<v Speaker 2>you get there. We'll get you there, you know. Okay,

1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:13.040
<v Speaker 2>one way or another, I'll get you there.

1:54:13.439 --> 1:54:20.439
<v Speaker 1>Live Business today there are two behemoths. Live Nation is

1:54:20.560 --> 1:54:25.280
<v Speaker 1>very much in favor of making tour deals, being on

1:54:25.320 --> 1:54:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the other side of the fence. What's your philosophy.

1:54:29.280 --> 1:54:31.400
<v Speaker 2>I think it depends on the act, and I think

1:54:31.439 --> 1:54:34.520
<v Speaker 2>it depends on the timing of when you're going out

1:54:35.280 --> 1:54:38.839
<v Speaker 2>and also the history you have. So in other words,

1:54:39.480 --> 1:54:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Live Nation has been very good to me with a

1:54:44.040 --> 1:54:47.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of my acts, but not all my acts. Two deals, okay,

1:54:48.000 --> 1:54:51.960
<v Speaker 2>one usually Fleevo Mac we deal right, but you know

1:54:52.040 --> 1:54:55.360
<v Speaker 2>there's deals that we don't take money. We just want

1:54:55.760 --> 1:54:58.720
<v Speaker 2>everything right. Everything, okay, and it works because you know,

1:54:58.760 --> 1:55:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you sell tickets. Okay, then with as easy. There's some

1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:06.640
<v Speaker 2>ag shows, there's some Like Nation shows, there's some independent shows,

1:55:06.680 --> 1:55:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and I won't do a whole deal okay, crowded house,

1:55:11.440 --> 1:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>same thing, you know. And that's Neil's mind too. He

1:55:14.880 --> 1:55:18.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to just be owned by Live Nation. You know,

1:55:18.840 --> 1:55:21.480
<v Speaker 2>we like Live Nation, but we're not on and we'll

1:55:21.480 --> 1:55:23.120
<v Speaker 2>do this and that and that and this with these

1:55:23.120 --> 1:55:27.920
<v Speaker 2>people and then the younger acts. We're not really making

1:55:27.960 --> 1:55:30.600
<v Speaker 2>deals with one agency. I mean, I know those deals

1:55:30.600 --> 1:55:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and I've seen them, and I see where they don't

1:55:32.120 --> 1:55:35.320
<v Speaker 2>work for the artists. You know, there's a there's a

1:55:35.440 --> 1:55:38.640
<v Speaker 2>big size band that did one, and those deals are

1:55:38.640 --> 1:55:41.920
<v Speaker 2>different thought the FLEETODMAC deals. I mean it's like, okay,

1:55:42.760 --> 1:55:45.440
<v Speaker 2>we get the next hundred shows or the same amount

1:55:45.480 --> 1:55:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of time, and we'll figure out when they are, where

1:55:47.960 --> 1:55:50.000
<v Speaker 2>they are. All that kind of shit. And it takes

1:55:50.000 --> 1:55:53.400
<v Speaker 2>these bands years to recoup. But what happened was their

1:55:53.440 --> 1:55:56.680
<v Speaker 2>business skyrocket. But you're living to that old guarantee. Not

1:55:56.760 --> 1:55:57.320
<v Speaker 2>a good deal.

1:55:57.760 --> 1:56:04.040
<v Speaker 1>You know. Since the insolidation and professionalization of the live business,

1:56:04.880 --> 1:56:08.200
<v Speaker 1>how does that work to the advantage your disadvantages of

1:56:08.280 --> 1:56:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the acts.

1:56:10.680 --> 1:56:19.160
<v Speaker 2>M hmm. I think there's there's, like you said, there's

1:56:19.160 --> 1:56:20.600
<v Speaker 2>advantages and disadvantage.

1:56:20.680 --> 1:56:20.880
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:56:20.960 --> 1:56:25.280
<v Speaker 2>It's like but with you know, Ticketmaster all that kind

1:56:25.280 --> 1:56:27.960
<v Speaker 2>of stuff, you know, and the way life nation is

1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:32.320
<v Speaker 2>with that kind of thing, it's potentially taking money off

1:56:32.320 --> 1:56:35.280
<v Speaker 2>the table for the band. It's really taking money away

1:56:35.280 --> 1:56:41.000
<v Speaker 2>from the van, you know. And but then again it's

1:56:41.040 --> 1:56:44.080
<v Speaker 2>how you structure those deals, you know. It's it's you

1:56:44.160 --> 1:56:46.280
<v Speaker 2>need to can't do that, you can't do this, you know,

1:56:46.280 --> 1:56:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and just negotiate it. But it's it's it's certainly also hurt.

1:56:52.520 --> 1:56:56.000
<v Speaker 2>What I think is the marketing of of the tours

1:56:56.000 --> 1:56:59.200
<v Speaker 2>of the bands. So you go up on sale, you

1:56:59.200 --> 1:57:02.920
<v Speaker 2>have a breakout, and then it's gone, okay, So you

1:57:03.000 --> 1:57:07.120
<v Speaker 2>shall generate all your revenue over a week period of time,

1:57:07.200 --> 1:57:10.760
<v Speaker 2>and the show's not for six months. Nothing happens after that,

1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:14.160
<v Speaker 2>even when you're going in market, unless you're stiffing, then

1:57:14.200 --> 1:57:16.560
<v Speaker 2>they'll put a little more money into it. Where when

1:57:17.040 --> 1:57:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Don Law or Golden Voice or whatever, back in the

1:57:21.640 --> 1:57:25.040
<v Speaker 2>old days, they would be firing stickering and there was

1:57:25.160 --> 1:57:28.440
<v Speaker 2>really a presence of that band coming, which helps record sales,

1:57:28.480 --> 1:57:33.000
<v Speaker 2>which helps everything else that's not there anymore. It's like void.

1:57:33.400 --> 1:57:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I go to a Fleetwood mac shown Chicago sold out

1:57:39.480 --> 1:57:42.200
<v Speaker 2>three in a row. But if you didn't buy a ticket,

1:57:42.200 --> 1:57:45.240
<v Speaker 2>you don't even know if they're there. Where before even

1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:47.200
<v Speaker 2>if you didn't go, you would see it and there

1:57:47.200 --> 1:57:51.400
<v Speaker 2>was present. Okay. So that's a lot of the problem

1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:55.400
<v Speaker 2>of the monumentality of how it is. But it's radio

1:57:55.520 --> 1:57:58.080
<v Speaker 2>is less important, so they don't win the radio. You know,

1:57:59.600 --> 1:58:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the Internet that's of the moment. So is it a

1:58:03.840 --> 1:58:07.680
<v Speaker 2>product of the way media has become or is it

1:58:07.760 --> 1:58:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a product of way a major kind oft promoter saves money?

1:58:13.080 --> 1:58:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1:58:14.480 --> 1:58:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about it a Can you talk about Fleewood

1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Max an instant sellout? Let's use zz top? Did you

1:58:19.720 --> 1:58:23.560
<v Speaker 1>bring them up? Most of the gigs are non instant sellouts,

1:58:23.960 --> 1:58:26.879
<v Speaker 1>So how do you ultimately fill the building?

1:58:30.960 --> 1:58:35.280
<v Speaker 2>We? Yeah, with zz we have an insane database, okay,

1:58:35.640 --> 1:58:38.560
<v Speaker 2>that we deal with. We don't give it to someone

1:58:40.440 --> 1:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>and we're active in the database with our fans and

1:58:44.040 --> 1:58:46.920
<v Speaker 2>they're aware of it. We're not like blindsiding them, you know.

1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:54.120
<v Speaker 2>And that's a band that can still organically sell out

1:58:54.200 --> 1:58:57.400
<v Speaker 2>over time for some reason. Okay, are we doing that

1:58:57.520 --> 1:59:01.120
<v Speaker 2>much different than the other band now, but it works.

1:59:01.680 --> 1:59:04.760
<v Speaker 2>And Zzi is an interesting thing because here's a band

1:59:04.760 --> 1:59:08.160
<v Speaker 2>that does under shows here every year for seventeen years.

1:59:08.200 --> 1:59:11.440
<v Speaker 2>They've done it with me and they want it. It's

1:59:11.480 --> 1:59:14.360
<v Speaker 2>not manager saying to it I pull back, pull back

1:59:14.440 --> 1:59:17.360
<v Speaker 2>you no, no, no gigsters. You know, we're fucking gigsters.

1:59:18.000 --> 1:59:19.839
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's do it. We got to be creative,

1:59:19.880 --> 1:59:21.200
<v Speaker 2>we got to go into different markets.

1:59:21.240 --> 1:59:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Whatever.

1:59:21.720 --> 1:59:26.520
<v Speaker 2>But it's it almost becomes to a ZZ fan like

1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:30.720
<v Speaker 2>an annual thing. Okay, it's annual, you know, and those

1:59:32.560 --> 1:59:37.320
<v Speaker 2>fans are so loyal to that band, and yeah, and

1:59:37.360 --> 1:59:41.440
<v Speaker 2>we still you know, when I took Zzy on, I

1:59:41.520 --> 1:59:44.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't really understand z Easytop, not musically, I mean the

1:59:44.680 --> 1:59:47.920
<v Speaker 2>business I didn't understand. So I went to Houston to

1:59:47.960 --> 1:59:49.720
<v Speaker 2>the Houston Rodeo where they were playing in front of

1:59:49.720 --> 1:59:53.000
<v Speaker 2>sixty five thousand people, and I decided just to walk

1:59:53.040 --> 1:59:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the parking lot, you know, check out the vibe. And

1:59:57.040 --> 1:59:59.400
<v Speaker 2>because I was so focused on the coasts, you know,

2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:07.680
<v Speaker 2>and so I see a grandmother, daughter, husband, their kids,

2:00:08.320 --> 2:00:10.680
<v Speaker 2>like five of them walking into the venue, all ages,

2:00:11.120 --> 2:00:14.320
<v Speaker 2>and they're all got ZZ shirts, Zazy cooozies these the acts,

2:00:14.400 --> 2:00:18.760
<v Speaker 2>thesey everything. I go, dude, these are loyal fans. This

2:00:19.200 --> 2:00:21.560
<v Speaker 2>is a business that I have not been in and

2:00:21.600 --> 2:00:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I want to be a part of it. And it's

2:00:22.840 --> 2:00:26.600
<v Speaker 2>been successful. But before I got involved, the manager prior

2:00:27.080 --> 2:00:31.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't want them doing television, didn't want them doing articles,

2:00:31.360 --> 2:00:34.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't want them to be exposed at all, and hit

2:00:34.040 --> 2:00:37.360
<v Speaker 2>them because he thought, well, and he was right back

2:00:37.400 --> 2:00:40.600
<v Speaker 2>in the old days, it's a mystery. You don't give

2:00:40.600 --> 2:00:42.600
<v Speaker 2>it all the way, you know whatever. But in the

2:00:42.640 --> 2:00:47.040
<v Speaker 2>new world of post MTV and social media and all

2:00:47.080 --> 2:00:50.480
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. So I did a documentary that did really

2:00:50.520 --> 2:00:53.840
<v Speaker 2>well on Netflix with them. I got them on television,

2:00:54.360 --> 2:00:57.720
<v Speaker 2>I got them doing you know, big event shows, you know.

2:00:58.360 --> 2:01:00.960
<v Speaker 2>And so I took him out out of the fair

2:01:01.080 --> 2:01:04.120
<v Speaker 2>business and brought them back into the hard ticket business

2:01:04.200 --> 2:01:09.160
<v Speaker 2>that was Michael and I had some great agents that

2:01:09.280 --> 2:01:12.840
<v Speaker 2>worked with me, that understood my vision, you know, and

2:01:12.960 --> 2:01:18.040
<v Speaker 2>it worked out. And now you know, we're bigger in

2:01:18.120 --> 2:01:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Europe than we are in the United States. And when

2:01:21.880 --> 2:01:23.880
<v Speaker 2>I started with them, they hadn't been to Europe for

2:01:23.960 --> 2:01:27.240
<v Speaker 2>ten years or something, you know, But we worked them

2:01:27.240 --> 2:01:30.280
<v Speaker 2>in Europe and then they became Americana cheeky you know

2:01:30.360 --> 2:01:34.320
<v Speaker 2>type thing over the real deal, the real deal. We

2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:38.000
<v Speaker 2>went to Australia this year, sold everything out, everything. It

2:01:38.080 --> 2:01:41.080
<v Speaker 2>was crazy doing eighteen bucks ahead and T shirts, all

2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:44.560
<v Speaker 2>this stuff on fire, you know. So we built them

2:01:44.600 --> 2:01:48.000
<v Speaker 2>in other markets and we made it an international act

2:01:48.880 --> 2:01:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and I Chase. I spent a lot of time with

2:01:52.800 --> 2:01:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Billy even about microphones you know or whatever, you know,

2:01:56.960 --> 2:02:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and stage dressings and sets and all this kind of shit.

2:02:01.120 --> 2:02:04.240
<v Speaker 2>And Billy's a really smart guy and a very very

2:02:04.600 --> 2:02:10.720
<v Speaker 2>spot on you know, but he was He was great,

2:02:10.880 --> 2:02:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, he listened, he talked, we'd riff and we

2:02:13.440 --> 2:02:16.560
<v Speaker 2>became close, you know, like all my clients and I'll

2:02:16.600 --> 2:02:18.720
<v Speaker 2>have ten bad ideas and if there's one good one

2:02:18.720 --> 2:02:20.680
<v Speaker 2>in there, we're winning or we're winning.

2:02:20.800 --> 2:02:26.920
<v Speaker 1>So okay, zz top one hundred dates a year actually

2:02:26.960 --> 2:02:32.440
<v Speaker 1>don't represent sticks out every year, deaf leppards seemingly.

2:02:32.000 --> 2:02:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Everything ARD's amazing.

2:02:33.760 --> 2:02:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay. In the old days they say let it lie fallow, Hey,

2:02:39.400 --> 2:02:41.960
<v Speaker 1>what's your philosophy on that? And b is this just

2:02:42.080 --> 2:02:43.320
<v Speaker 1>going to go on forever?

2:02:44.760 --> 2:02:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that the general philosophy is take those breaks,

2:02:49.360 --> 2:02:51.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, because it refuels the T shirt business the

2:02:51.920 --> 2:02:56.400
<v Speaker 2>ticket business all that. Certain bands can get away with it.

2:02:56.440 --> 2:02:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think many bands can do what sticks does

2:02:59.200 --> 2:03:01.800
<v Speaker 2>c Z. Cheap Trick another one of my bands, you know,

2:03:01.960 --> 2:03:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Cheap Trick. We took on Cheap Trick just four months ago.

2:03:07.920 --> 2:03:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I had them out with Easy. This band can be

2:03:11.640 --> 2:03:15.720
<v Speaker 2>something still. This is an interesting band, you know, but

2:03:15.880 --> 2:03:18.760
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like they're working too much. They're going

2:03:18.720 --> 2:03:20.960
<v Speaker 2>into the wrong rooms, all that kind of stuff. So

2:03:21.000 --> 2:03:23.320
<v Speaker 2>I met the band, they decided to go with us,

2:03:23.960 --> 2:03:26.520
<v Speaker 2>put two of my guys on it, and we're doing well.

2:03:26.680 --> 2:03:30.480
<v Speaker 2>And it's the same idea as Easy. They you had

2:03:30.480 --> 2:03:32.440
<v Speaker 2>to weed the garden. You know, it's a dirty garden.

2:03:32.480 --> 2:03:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Let's make it a clean garden. You know. That's weed

2:03:34.320 --> 2:03:36.240
<v Speaker 2>it to make it pretty, you know, And how do

2:03:36.280 --> 2:03:37.800
<v Speaker 2>you do that will put them in the right place.

2:03:38.720 --> 2:03:40.800
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about a band like Jeep Trick, well

2:03:40.840 --> 2:03:44.400
<v Speaker 1>known rock and roll Hall of Fame members. Is there

2:03:44.560 --> 2:03:49.600
<v Speaker 1>any upside you're talking about Zezy Top business increased in Europe,

2:03:49.640 --> 2:03:53.200
<v Speaker 1>but they haven't been there. Is it more about maintaining

2:03:53.280 --> 2:03:56.840
<v Speaker 1>the business of these acts or is there anything that

2:03:56.920 --> 2:03:57.760
<v Speaker 1>could make it grow.

2:03:58.040 --> 2:04:00.960
<v Speaker 2>There's plenty of things that potent could make it grow.

2:04:01.600 --> 2:04:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Maintaining is not what our goal is when we get involved,

2:04:05.440 --> 2:04:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, because once again, I was never a big

2:04:12.080 --> 2:04:16.200
<v Speaker 2>cheap trick fan, Okay, but I knew they could play.

2:04:16.640 --> 2:04:18.960
<v Speaker 2>I think they still look good and they wrote some

2:04:19.040 --> 2:04:22.360
<v Speaker 2>great fucking songs. Okay. So how do we expose them

2:04:22.400 --> 2:04:26.120
<v Speaker 2>to different audience to not lose audience but gather more

2:04:26.120 --> 2:04:29.160
<v Speaker 2>people that weren't ticket buyers, record buyers, whatever it is.

2:04:29.520 --> 2:04:32.120
<v Speaker 2>How do we do that by putting them in places

2:04:32.120 --> 2:04:35.600
<v Speaker 2>they haven't been or giving them looks they've never had.

2:04:36.160 --> 2:04:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Just give me an example of both of those places

2:04:38.640 --> 2:04:39.280
<v Speaker 1>they haven't been there.

2:04:39.520 --> 2:04:41.000
<v Speaker 2>We'll go out and open up for a band that

2:04:41.040 --> 2:04:44.040
<v Speaker 2>you haven't opened up for ten million times, okay, go

2:04:44.120 --> 2:04:49.240
<v Speaker 2>out with fucking Rod Stewart okay, or get them on

2:04:49.280 --> 2:04:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a late night television show, even though that doesn't move

2:04:51.920 --> 2:04:55.160
<v Speaker 2>the needle of sales, Okay, it doesn't, but it does

2:04:55.600 --> 2:04:59.880
<v Speaker 2>impact the image and the perception of that band. Okay.

2:05:00.120 --> 2:05:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Do things like that, you know, do a real documentary

2:05:03.720 --> 2:05:07.040
<v Speaker 2>about the band in Rufford, Illinois, you know, or whatever.

2:05:07.160 --> 2:05:11.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like, it's it's educating people because I can play

2:05:11.280 --> 2:05:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a cheap trick song surrender, Okay to my wife or

2:05:16.920 --> 2:05:18.960
<v Speaker 2>to a friend and they, oh, I know that song,

2:05:19.000 --> 2:05:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Well who does that song? I don't know. So it's

2:05:22.560 --> 2:05:25.200
<v Speaker 2>educating people too on who wrote those songs and who's

2:05:25.240 --> 2:05:30.200
<v Speaker 2>behind those songs. And that is through proper articles, documentaries,

2:05:30.680 --> 2:05:32.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, educational pieces.

2:05:33.560 --> 2:05:38.040
<v Speaker 1>And what's your philosophy on soft ticket sales soft ticket shows?

2:05:38.760 --> 2:05:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, dependents if it's if it's sometimes they're needy because

2:05:44.800 --> 2:05:49.480
<v Speaker 2>it's part of the routing. Okay ah to be a

2:05:49.520 --> 2:05:52.960
<v Speaker 2>country act that only does soft tickets, which is not

2:05:53.160 --> 2:05:56.080
<v Speaker 2>unique in that business. You know, I think it does

2:05:56.160 --> 2:05:59.760
<v Speaker 2>nothing for the building of the growth of the band,

2:05:59.800 --> 2:06:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the loyalty to the band, all those things. If I

2:06:02.960 --> 2:06:06.120
<v Speaker 2>know I can see such and such act at a

2:06:06.240 --> 2:06:09.560
<v Speaker 2>radio show every year, welly, I'm ever going to buy

2:06:09.600 --> 2:06:11.960
<v Speaker 2>a ticket. So how does that band make money in touring?

2:06:12.000 --> 2:06:12.360
<v Speaker 1>They don't.

2:06:13.680 --> 2:06:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Plus they're there for twenty other bands, and so what's

2:06:17.520 --> 2:06:23.400
<v Speaker 2>the point. You know, festivals that are heart ticket festivals,

2:06:23.720 --> 2:06:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a bottle Rock or a Lolla plusa whatever.

2:06:30.360 --> 2:06:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I think are great, but not too much of it.

2:06:34.040 --> 2:06:34.240
<v Speaker 1>You know.

2:06:34.280 --> 2:06:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I think when we played and Zeezi played Stagecoach or Creed.

2:06:40.080 --> 2:06:43.000
<v Speaker 2>This last year played stage Coach, it was a fantastic

2:06:43.080 --> 2:06:45.360
<v Speaker 2>moment because it was playing in front of people that

2:06:45.440 --> 2:06:48.120
<v Speaker 2>never would have bought a ticket, and that brings even

2:06:48.160 --> 2:06:51.520
<v Speaker 2>if you got half a percent of those people, that's

2:06:51.600 --> 2:06:55.040
<v Speaker 2>growing business. Okay, and word of mouth. Boy, I saw

2:06:55.040 --> 2:06:57.720
<v Speaker 2>a Creed. I was in the gym and Sun Valley

2:06:58.080 --> 2:07:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and one of the gym rats comes up to me

2:07:00.800 --> 2:07:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and says, here, you work with Creed? Go yeah, he goes, dude,

2:07:05.040 --> 2:07:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I was at stagecoach. Greatest show I've ever seen in

2:07:08.160 --> 2:07:12.240
<v Speaker 2>my life, never seen them before, you know, And it's like, wow, okay, sweet,

2:07:12.560 --> 2:07:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, but that just that alone. They're talking.

2:07:15.120 --> 2:07:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Let's just talk Creed for a second now. Scott Staff

2:07:18.720 --> 2:07:27.640
<v Speaker 1>has a horrendous reputation. Yeah, and uh, Creed. A lot

2:07:27.680 --> 2:07:30.640
<v Speaker 1>of people don't like, how do you rebuild Creed?

2:07:31.720 --> 2:07:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's working, okay, because if you look at the

2:07:34.080 --> 2:07:38.240
<v Speaker 2>tickets out, it's huge right now. Okay, it's huge. It's

2:07:38.520 --> 2:07:41.800
<v Speaker 2>it's arenas, it's sheds, and it's bigger than it's been

2:07:41.840 --> 2:07:46.160
<v Speaker 2>for a long time. How do you make them more

2:07:46.200 --> 2:07:51.800
<v Speaker 2>acceptable to not their core? Well that's a challenge. Okay, Uh,

2:07:51.840 --> 2:07:56.400
<v Speaker 2>but we kind of if you last Super Bowl, we

2:07:56.400 --> 2:07:58.920
<v Speaker 2>had a commercial, you know, I can't even remember who

2:07:58.920 --> 2:08:00.920
<v Speaker 2>it was for, but it was a commercial with a

2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Creed song and the band briefly in it and all

2:08:03.800 --> 2:08:06.960
<v Speaker 2>this kind of stuff. That was one impression. You know,

2:08:09.000 --> 2:08:12.600
<v Speaker 2>they were down in Indianapolis five hundred performing with Tom Brady.

2:08:12.880 --> 2:08:14.880
<v Speaker 2>That was all over the place all sudden. Okay, you're

2:08:14.920 --> 2:08:18.640
<v Speaker 2>with somebody different, something new, and then people go to

2:08:18.760 --> 2:08:21.000
<v Speaker 2>it and they're like, wow, this is pretty awesome.

2:08:21.200 --> 2:08:21.440
<v Speaker 1>You know.

2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:26.720
<v Speaker 2>And once again, wasn't a big Creed fan. But I

2:08:26.800 --> 2:08:30.520
<v Speaker 2>managed Scott a long time ago, okay, and he came

2:08:30.560 --> 2:08:32.840
<v Speaker 2>back and asked me to be.

2:08:32.840 --> 2:08:37.400
<v Speaker 1>About Okay, So what's the future of rock? All your

2:08:37.440 --> 2:08:41.920
<v Speaker 1>big acts are rock acts. They certainly have little participation

2:08:42.040 --> 2:08:44.720
<v Speaker 1>in the Spotify tough fifty. What's the state of rock

2:08:44.760 --> 2:08:47.320
<v Speaker 1>and where's it going? Well?

2:08:47.680 --> 2:08:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I think rock something changes and it changes every year. Okay,

2:08:54.880 --> 2:08:57.320
<v Speaker 2>But if we looked at where's going to be in

2:08:57.400 --> 2:09:04.960
<v Speaker 2>ten years from now a few point of today, where

2:09:04.960 --> 2:09:10.920
<v Speaker 2>can it go? You know? Ai TikTok. All these different

2:09:11.680 --> 2:09:16.760
<v Speaker 2>mediums and technologies will erase the organic band and rock

2:09:16.920 --> 2:09:23.840
<v Speaker 2>was based on real bands, real writers and working hard

2:09:23.920 --> 2:09:27.640
<v Speaker 2>to build a handbase, not of the moment. Okay, and

2:09:28.240 --> 2:09:31.960
<v Speaker 2>rock Rock's hot now, but I don't know how it

2:09:32.040 --> 2:09:38.160
<v Speaker 2>survives social media, okay, and long term I'm not sure.

2:09:38.920 --> 2:09:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So finally, what is the future of the business.

2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Some people in certain businesses they said, well, I'm not

2:09:46.600 --> 2:09:48.920
<v Speaker 1>going to live that long and I'll just ride into

2:09:48.920 --> 2:09:52.480
<v Speaker 1>the sunset and that's it. You're obviously not that guy,

2:09:52.680 --> 2:09:54.560
<v Speaker 1>because you said you already have enough money. You know,

2:09:54.560 --> 2:09:57.320
<v Speaker 1>you're not working for the money or the money's always nice.

2:09:57.440 --> 2:09:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I like money.

2:09:58.680 --> 2:10:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Everybody likes it's solid.

2:10:00.880 --> 2:10:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not that right.

2:10:02.280 --> 2:10:06.920
<v Speaker 1>So where is the business going? What changes do you

2:10:07.080 --> 2:10:09.120
<v Speaker 1>see and where is it going to end up?

2:10:09.960 --> 2:10:11.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the answer to that, because you read

2:10:15.400 --> 2:10:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Gibbons sent me this podcast guy and I can't think

2:10:19.280 --> 2:10:24.040
<v Speaker 2>of his name. It was talking about music sucks now

2:10:24.760 --> 2:10:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Rick Beatle, Yeah, did you see that thing?

2:10:27.600 --> 2:10:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

2:10:28.240 --> 2:10:31.440
<v Speaker 2>And you start what the hell you know? Or that

2:10:32.560 --> 2:10:35.360
<v Speaker 2>you know? And I watched that. It's just so scary,

2:10:35.480 --> 2:10:37.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's so anti what I think. And

2:10:38.320 --> 2:10:41.880
<v Speaker 2>it's about art, you know, it's even if you the

2:10:41.920 --> 2:10:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Bob Dylan movie okay, okay, whether you like it or not, Okay,

2:10:46.000 --> 2:10:50.280
<v Speaker 2>the Bob Dyler movie. It showed a moment in music history. Okay,

2:10:50.680 --> 2:10:54.520
<v Speaker 2>when it was pure, when they really cared and worked hard,

2:10:55.480 --> 2:10:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and yeah they wanted success, they needed money, but it

2:10:58.920 --> 2:11:02.840
<v Speaker 2>was like a community and it was fucking cool, you know.

2:11:03.120 --> 2:11:07.320
<v Speaker 2>And if it's going farther and farther away from there,

2:11:08.360 --> 2:11:13.680
<v Speaker 2>so if that continues that path, it will be artists

2:11:13.720 --> 2:11:17.120
<v Speaker 2>that aren't real artists or music that lives for five

2:11:17.160 --> 2:11:19.960
<v Speaker 2>minutes and gone, and there won't be the Bob Dylan's,

2:11:20.360 --> 2:11:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the Fluid Max, the Zzy Tops whatever, you know, they

2:11:23.720 --> 2:11:27.040
<v Speaker 2>won't be able to come back. It's not geared that

2:11:27.080 --> 2:11:32.360
<v Speaker 2>way anymore. It's not so eventually what happens then, well

2:11:32.400 --> 2:11:36.240
<v Speaker 2>it's all synthetic shit, you know, And so who are

2:11:36.240 --> 2:11:38.320
<v Speaker 2>the artists? Who cares for the artists? I just like

2:11:38.360 --> 2:11:40.560
<v Speaker 2>to listen to the song. Listen, you listen to your

2:11:40.560 --> 2:11:44.840
<v Speaker 2>favorite band from the seventies, it brings a memory, you know.

2:11:45.640 --> 2:11:48.800
<v Speaker 2>These songs are not memorable. These songs are not a memory.

2:11:49.440 --> 2:11:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Watermelon Sugar and I love Harry Styles great, I like them,

2:11:53.680 --> 2:11:57.240
<v Speaker 2>But is that going to ten years from now, twenty

2:11:57.320 --> 2:12:01.720
<v Speaker 2>years in somebody's life be a memory, you know, like

2:12:01.720 --> 2:12:04.680
<v Speaker 2>like a Zeppelin song and Pink Floyd the Wall or whatever. Yeah,

2:12:04.760 --> 2:12:06.840
<v Speaker 2>but the record we sat down I had my friends

2:12:06.840 --> 2:12:09.160
<v Speaker 2>come over, we played it. I shared the record with them.

2:12:09.280 --> 2:12:13.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, that whole community, it's not there anymore, and

2:12:14.280 --> 2:12:17.800
<v Speaker 2>without community long term is scary.

2:12:19.200 --> 2:12:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're going to do it till you drop.

2:12:21.040 --> 2:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>You ever gonna rend? No, Well, at some of them probably,

2:12:25.280 --> 2:12:30.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, at some level. Although watched tomorrow announce that

2:12:30.320 --> 2:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm retiring and I'm going to some valley and I'm

2:12:33.040 --> 2:12:35.480
<v Speaker 2>working on a pick a ball game and skiing every day.

2:12:35.520 --> 2:12:38.800
<v Speaker 2>How about that? But I got fifty days in this.

2:12:38.840 --> 2:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Year, so I got one hundred and two. Where three

2:12:44.040 --> 2:12:46.080
<v Speaker 1>of them in Aspen, the rest in Veil. But that's

2:12:46.080 --> 2:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>a separate conversational. That's a separate conversation. But you're obviously

2:12:51.280 --> 2:12:54.080
<v Speaker 1>building an asset. Yeah, yeah, so at some point you

2:12:54.120 --> 2:12:57.760
<v Speaker 1>want to sell it. Yeah, at some point, could be soon.

2:12:59.320 --> 2:13:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Uh well, let's just assume. Just assume it is soon.

2:13:04.400 --> 2:13:06.360
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people I know are in your boat

2:13:06.520 --> 2:13:10.560
<v Speaker 1>whose money is not the primary driver. They don't want

2:13:10.600 --> 2:13:12.320
<v Speaker 1>to be on the outside. They don't want to miss

2:13:12.320 --> 2:13:16.600
<v Speaker 1>the action. Could you literally say, Okay, I'm done and

2:13:16.680 --> 2:13:18.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm living in Sun Valley, I got a young kid.

2:13:18.920 --> 2:13:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Everything's groovy and I'm happy. Are you going to say, shit,

2:13:21.760 --> 2:13:24.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, the email's not coming in. I'm not on

2:13:24.400 --> 2:13:24.920
<v Speaker 1>a plane.

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<v Speaker 2>This is weird, No, I take I think I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>little different than that, you know, I think c W.

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<v Speaker 2>It's this shoulder, carls that shoulder. C W's still there.

2:13:35.200 --> 2:13:39.400
<v Speaker 2>S kee bum, okay, skey bum. I'm acting Carl every day. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe that act is over. I go back to CW.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I own pieces of restaurants, I

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<v Speaker 2>own a musical, I own this. I'll keep those things,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. But if I if I was to sell

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<v Speaker 2>the company, I'd have to stay with the company because

2:13:52.720 --> 2:13:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the company's predicated on me as the driver. It's a

2:13:56.600 --> 2:13:59.000
<v Speaker 2>service business, so it's not an asset, so you have

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<v Speaker 2>to stay for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not necessarily forever.

2:14:01.400 --> 2:14:04.280
<v Speaker 2>But then it becomes like an emeritis chairman or whatever

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<v Speaker 2>it is, you know, and you're still involved, you know,

2:14:07.480 --> 2:14:10.520
<v Speaker 2>and your kid's going to be successful in it, Jackson

2:14:10.640 --> 2:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>is going to be you know, and you're advising that

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<v Speaker 2>there's plenty of action in my life not to have

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<v Speaker 2>to be day to day okay involved. However, for the

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<v Speaker 2>next probably three to five years, I'm definitely day today.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there's no outing because I'm not prepared to

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<v Speaker 2>let even if I don't. If I weren't selling, weren't

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<v Speaker 2>going to sell it, and I'm not saying I'm selling

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<v Speaker 2>right now. But if the plan was for always, then

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<v Speaker 2>I got to still build it bigger so it survives

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<v Speaker 2>better chance of survival. So I'm committed to that.

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<v Speaker 1>And on that note, I think we've come to the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the feeling we've known. Carl, thanks so much

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<v Speaker 1>for spending this time with my audience and going through

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<v Speaker 1>the history and philosophy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's my pleasure, you know. I just hope I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't say too many times. He's got that right on.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. Until next time. This is Bob

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<v Speaker 1>left Sex

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<v Speaker 2>Sh