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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftsett's podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is Carl Stubner, CEO of the Shelter Music Group. Carl,

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Speaker 1: what is the Shelter Music Group?

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Speaker 2: Now, that's a good question, Bob. We're still trying to

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Speaker 2: figure that out. Now. We are a management company that

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Speaker 2: started right like two months before COVID's hit, and so

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Speaker 2: we've built this company over the last whatever that is,

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Speaker 2: three four years. In the first two years was hard

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Speaker 2: to keep it going, but I had this attitude that

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Speaker 2: in bad times grow faster, you know, and I just

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Speaker 2: kept on bringing him managers and signing more bands. And

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Speaker 2: we went from fourteen bands to seventy bands and a

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Speaker 2: staff of five to a staff of thirty. So that

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Speaker 2: is I've been over the last four years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's just go talk me through the transition.

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Speaker 1: What you were doing exactly before Shelter, What the vision

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Speaker 1: for Shelter was, Why was going to be different?

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Speaker 2: Well, as I think, you know, I was at Sanctuary

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Speaker 2: at the end of the run, right and then Universal

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Speaker 2: bought it and I ran Sanctuary Management for Universal for

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Speaker 2: a couple of years until I just had to get out.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was not the right environment for me, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think they shared my same vision of what a

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Speaker 2: management company is and how to survive a management company.

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Speaker 2: And so I left and then I kind of did

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Speaker 2: some other management company stuff with some other people, but

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Speaker 2: I was getting bored and I happened to be out

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Speaker 2: on tour with Fleetwood Mac and Hartwick, who was the

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Speaker 2: chairman of BMG at the time, came out on the

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Speaker 2: tour to say hi to me and check it out,

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Speaker 2: and he's witnessed what we did as managers really for

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Speaker 2: the first time, real managers, you know. I think we

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Speaker 2: playing Boston and he asked, well, how much did the

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Speaker 2: band pocket, you know? And I told him the number

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Speaker 2: and he said, well, how much did you get? I said,

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Speaker 2: I told him the number, and he said, I want

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Speaker 2: to be in your business, no risk, just upside, okay.

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Speaker 2: So I said, all right, well, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I want to sell my company. I'm not sure even

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Speaker 2: if I want to grow it. At that point, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was happy managing Fleetwood Mac's Easy Top and other bands,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I was getting older, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe just fade out with those bands and that's enough.

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Speaker 2: And so he kept on calling me no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you don't need to sell the company. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: invest in your company, okay, and we'll just investor, you know,

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Speaker 2: just providing capital to build a new company and do

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Speaker 2: somewhat of a roll up. Eventually I said yes, So

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Speaker 2: we did that twenty nineteen in November October, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we shook hands. He invested in it, and three months

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Speaker 2: later COVID hit. Okay, so business shut down. But my

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Speaker 2: whole thing was, you know, in the depression, the Kennedys

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Speaker 2: really succeeded. You know, it was like those are the times.

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Speaker 2: So there were a lot of managers out there that

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Speaker 2: needed support because they were making no money and they

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Speaker 2: had great bands, but there was no one working. So

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Speaker 2: I went to them and said, hey, why aren't you

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Speaker 2: come in and I'll guarantee you money. And so I

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Speaker 2: built this and then you know, we thought COVID would

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Speaker 2: last six months, a year or whatever, and it just

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Speaker 2: kept on going. So I went to Hartwick and I said,

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Speaker 2: I am not going to furlough anybody, I'm not dropping anything,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to grow even more. So I need

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Speaker 2: more money. And he said, hell yeah, great idea let's

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Speaker 2: do it. And so he did that and we kept

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Speaker 2: going and going, and then we broke through COVID and

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Speaker 2: we had debt because we took money, and we're finally

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Speaker 2: at that point where you know, we're a cash positive

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Speaker 2: company and uh successful. And it took two years to

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Speaker 2: dig out of COVID, but now it's working and we

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Speaker 2: have great bands and great managers, and you know, the

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Speaker 2: whole thing in the beginning was, you know, the only

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Speaker 2: reason I really am willing to the only way I'm

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Speaker 2: willing to do this heartwik, is that I want to

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Speaker 2: make this company like no Oether, a big management company,

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Speaker 2: and we don't need to name them. They are what

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Speaker 2: they are and they're great, you know. But I didn't

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Speaker 2: want that. I wanted to go back to my roots

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Speaker 2: as a music fan when I was young and build

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Speaker 2: a company. And this is a I use this expression

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Speaker 2: all the time and with people, but I really had

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Speaker 2: this fantasy of doing making a company where music was

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Speaker 2: why we were there, not the paycheck, okay, and make

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Speaker 2: it like this thing in the early early seventies or

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Speaker 2: late nineties of Rolling Stone magazine where they're sitting in

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Speaker 2: one room and they all care about one thing, and

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Speaker 2: they share ideas. You know, maybe that's not what Rolling

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Speaker 2: Stone was, but that was my vision of Rolling Stone,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so I said the online to it is,

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Speaker 2: if I do it that way, we're there for the

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Speaker 2: right reason. It's not about the check. It's about the

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Speaker 2: artist and finding great artists and doing the decisions or

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Speaker 2: making the decisions that are right for the artists, not

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Speaker 2: right for the management company. Where at Shelter excuse me, Sanctuary,

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Speaker 2: it was a totally different thing. You know, they were

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Speaker 2: making deals with managers for what act they had at

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Speaker 2: the time. I did deals with managers who I believed

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Speaker 2: in and eventually they will succeed or they'll continue succeeding,

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Speaker 2: and that's working. So it's a totally different environment. And

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Speaker 2: our you know, we are a fraternity of managers, support staff,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, you know, shared services whatever, that really care

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Speaker 2: about each other, trade ideas, aren't competitive on who we

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Speaker 2: sign realizing one person's been the other, don't take it.

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Speaker 2: Don't worries about the company, not the individual. And people

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Speaker 2: bought into it, you know, And I'm like, okay, so

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the philosophy of the company, if that

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Speaker 2: makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, BMG. What's their ownership position, what's their deal?

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Speaker 2: Well, the deal's changed since Heartwork left, okay, and that's

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Speaker 2: all in this that's something I really don't want to

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Speaker 2: talk about.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me put it this way. Are you the

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Speaker 1: owner along with BMG or is every manager owner? What

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Speaker 1: is the ownership structure?

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Speaker 2: I'm the owner. I was well heart Will Heartwik was there.

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Speaker 2: I was sole owner of the company. Okay, So he

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Speaker 2: was lending you the money, lending me the money on

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Speaker 2: a return of profits, right, non callable, you know. So,

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Speaker 2: and then Thomas Coolsfeldt came in and he had a

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Speaker 2: different direction, you know than Hartwork did. So things got

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Speaker 2: different and we're talking now, and you know they for them,

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Speaker 2: for them relieving me of some of the debt. They

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Speaker 2: have an ownership, but I'm a majority owner. I don't

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Speaker 2: answer to anyone. It's my company. BMG has no say

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Speaker 2: and never have of what we do. Okay, who I sign,

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Speaker 2: who I bring in as an employer or a manager?

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: So it's always been me running it with no one

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Speaker 2: they answered to. Now that that might be why they

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Speaker 2: have a problem with it now, because different chairman, you know.

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Speaker 1: So, Okay, what is the deal with the managers traditionally,

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Speaker 1: like with most of these, I give you a check

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Speaker 1: you aren't it out, and then it's fifty to fifty

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Speaker 1: of it. Is that your standard dealers.

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Speaker 2: That's just that's those aren't accurate, exactly accurate numbers. It

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Speaker 2: all depends on the manager.

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Speaker 1: Okay, every manager might get a separate deal, a different deal.

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Speaker 2: I make it deals directly with the manager. There's not

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Speaker 2: there's not a blueprint of what the deal is because

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Speaker 2: some people need lesser, some people need more, and some

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Speaker 2: people earn more and deserve more or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: So it's all it's all based on the individual, the

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Speaker 2: individual's needs and they're projections when doing the deal, so

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Speaker 2: they're you know, different than a lot of management companies.

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Speaker 2: I don't charge the managers for office space shared services.

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Speaker 2: That's something I from my side to provide a better

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Speaker 2: service for the manager in return, and that then extends

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Speaker 2: the artist getting better service, whether it's a radio staff

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Speaker 2: or asset staff or social media whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's get down to the nitty gritty. You make

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Speaker 1: a deal with the manager, and it's basically a percentage

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Speaker 1: of net, and NET just has to do with the band.

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Speaker 1: And the manager not with shurance services.

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Speaker 2: Right, so I make a deal. Let's I'll do a hypothetically, right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: ignore the numbers. Okay, but mister manager, I want you

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Speaker 2: to come aboard.

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Speaker 1: Are you in?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm in, all right? What do you want to

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Speaker 2: get as a advance draw whatever it is? What do

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Speaker 2: you need? And then what kind of staff do you need? Well,

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Speaker 2: I need an assistant and myself and I need to

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Speaker 2: make such such dollars and assistant such such, and you

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Speaker 2: have to pay for my insurance, which I'm happy to

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Speaker 2: and then they recoup that amount. And then once they

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Speaker 2: recoup it, it's a straight split. And the split is

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Speaker 2: depending on the person and how bad I want them,

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Speaker 2: how bad they want in, you know, or what's fair

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Speaker 2: to them, what's fair to me?

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Speaker 1: So okay, what is in the pot? Then at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, that is split at whatever percentage

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Speaker 1: it might be.

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends, you know, it depends on the cost

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Speaker 2: of the individual manager. So when you say pot, what

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Speaker 2: do you mean by pott?

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Speaker 1: I mean so the shared services are not in the pot?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: So what is in the pot?

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Speaker 2: Not think? But they're hard costs nothing but their salary,

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Speaker 2: their teeny their insurance, and their employee that the assistant.

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Speaker 2: That's it. There's no add on costs, so all they

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Speaker 2: have to do is keep recoup those three things. Basically,

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Speaker 2: they said, I pay for the shared services. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: It doesn't charge back to the individual managers.

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Speaker 1: What am I going to get in shared services?

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Speaker 2: You're going to get radio, You're going to get asset developers,

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Speaker 2: you're going to get social media people, You're going to

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Speaker 2: get streaming people, you know those that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell me how this is different from red Light.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've never worked for red Light, but I've heard,

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Speaker 2: but it is my understanding. Anyone can correct me if

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Speaker 2: I'm wrong, because I could be that they make the

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Speaker 2: same deal I just said, but they add on costs,

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Speaker 2: whether it's office space, shared service contribution, all those things.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't want to do that. And maybe it's

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Speaker 2: foolish for me not doing that, okay, But it was

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Speaker 2: more the philosophy of the company, okay, And maybe that

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Speaker 2: lessens my profit at the end of the day, but

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Speaker 2: I'm okay with that because I'm in this still after

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Speaker 2: all these years, to have fun, enjoy the people around,

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Speaker 2: care of people, no different than how you take care

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Speaker 2: of an artist. You take care of a manager. You

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Speaker 2: develop them, you help them, you know. That was my thing.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to cultivate managers. And then there was a

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Speaker 2: point two years ago that I said to a couple

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Speaker 2: guys at the company. I said, the problem, the problem

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Speaker 2: here is we're not developing young managers. We're developing young acts,

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Speaker 2: but no young managers. Who's going to take over one?

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Speaker 2: We're going not necessarily at the company, but in the industry. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So I started this incubator team of kids and gave

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Speaker 2: them a draw and over the two years, they're all succeeding.

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Speaker 2: They recouped, they make money, and they're great. But I

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Speaker 2: had to teach them. So I spend more time working

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Speaker 2: with these people, opening doors for these people, you know,

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Speaker 2: guiding them when needing needed guiding, and that's working. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what I do for the established managers too.

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Speaker 2: I help them with things maybe they're not familiar with,

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Speaker 2: whether it's a television show which I've produced shows, you know, whatever,

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Speaker 2: those type of things, and or branding opportunities. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've had restaurants, I've had wines with my artists, I've

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Speaker 2: had clothing companies whatever, Okay, So I have relationships. So

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Speaker 2: I help even the established managers to open different relationships

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Speaker 2: to provide a better service for their clients. So I

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Speaker 2: manage the managers, you know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, in terms of your shared service staff. How many

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Speaker 1: people is that? What's the head count?

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Speaker 2: It's not that big. It's five or six people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to your farm team, so to speak. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how many developing managers are you working with?

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Speaker 2: Just three? But I only have a total of twelve managers,

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Speaker 2: so you know that's thirty percent.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's let's stay with it. If you have

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Speaker 1: those three, is it the same three or are you

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Speaker 1: rolling them over?

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Speaker 2: It's the same three right now. But I add to it.

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Speaker 2: I will add to it as these as these guys

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Speaker 2: go up. Then I bring another level in and they

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Speaker 2: just you know that it hasn't happened yet, no, because

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Speaker 2: it's been two years and it just got to the

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Speaker 2: point that my lit Mitz test, you know, the proof

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Speaker 2: of concept is proving that it was a good concept,

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Speaker 2: you know, So now it's time to start looking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, where did you find these three?

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Speaker 2: Well, one is my son who was working who was young,

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Speaker 2: who's twenty seven, but when he started twenty five, but

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Speaker 2: he had been working for Live Nation up in Chicago,

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Speaker 2: h running like the Aragon ball okay at a young age,

250
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Speaker 2: great kid, you know, like me, a college dropout okay,

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Speaker 2: but had a thirst. And the other one was my

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Speaker 2: nephew who who was Mick Fleetwood's assistant for like three

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Speaker 2: years during a big tour during the whole period, so

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Speaker 2: he learned that kind of you know, relationship. And my son,

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Speaker 2: Jackson grew up with me managing Fleetwood Mac and on

256
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Speaker 2: the plane with us, you know, his whole life as

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Speaker 2: a kid, so he knows how artists think at an

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Speaker 2: early age. So now it was really teaching these two

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Speaker 2: cats who knew how to deal with artists, talk to artists,

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Speaker 2: respect the artists, teach them the business part of it.

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Speaker 2: And so that was what the two years was basically.

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Speaker 2: But then they went out and signed all these bands

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Speaker 2: and some I helped them with some I didn't, and

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Speaker 2: whether they were established bands or identifying talent very young

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Speaker 2: and getting him up to There's a kid that they

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Speaker 2: managed called Hunter Mets who was just signed by Interscope

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Speaker 2: and Sony ATV Publishing and is touring and has an

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Speaker 2: immense amount of monthly listeners and it's just blowing up.

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Speaker 2: And they showed him, they introduced me to him in

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Speaker 2: a room where the guy had three people in the audience,

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Speaker 2: and so they introduced them to writers, to all this

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Speaker 2: collaborators into a world and now it's blowing up. All right,

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Speaker 2: So there's a z the learning curve. Okay, getting it.

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Speaker 2: Then they have some bands from the the late early

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Speaker 2: two thousands, you know, like a Hinder or a or

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Speaker 2: a bands like that in fuel and those say they

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Speaker 2: bread and butter bands because those bands still tour. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So build your business kind of like I did, and

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Speaker 2: you don't need to do it this way, but this

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Speaker 2: is the way I did it was I got established

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Speaker 2: bands right away, and then you start working on the

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Speaker 2: development because you need to be able to afford to

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Speaker 2: do the development and you also want to live and

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Speaker 2: pay your bills. So get those bands and then in

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Speaker 2: that period develop bands at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, who's the third person.

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Speaker 2: Third person I'm not going to say right now, but

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Speaker 2: it's there.

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Speaker 1: And wait, wait, wait, just I don't need to know

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Speaker 1: exactly who this person is, but there's someone who started

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Speaker 1: two years ago.

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Speaker 2: Who's also are he caman?

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Speaker 1: And he is doing essentially with the other two.

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Speaker 2: He is working with that team.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's go back a step. The five people

296
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Speaker 1: insured services? What exactly do those five do?

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Speaker 2: A lot of them do crossover stuff, But basically what

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Speaker 2: you're trying to do is cover radio assets because you know,

299
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Speaker 2: in today's world, you've got to deliver so many assets,

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Speaker 2: visual assets, you know, online, YouTube, whatever, TikTok So, there's

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Speaker 2: a person who does assets radio. There's a streaming specialist

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Speaker 2: okay that works with the streaming companies. There's a touring

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Speaker 2: component person you know who helps And now that I'm

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Speaker 2: talking so slow, I forgot the other one, but I

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Speaker 2: come up with it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I'll come back to you. Okay. Q Prime

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Speaker 1: has a dedicated radio team. Is that something? If I

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Speaker 1: go with you, I'm going to get the equivalent service.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Let me go back the other way before we get

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Speaker 1: back to radio and streaming. Ay, you say you have

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Speaker 1: twelve managers. Now, how does it ultimately happen? Do you

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Speaker 1: hear about somebody is somebody shopping? How does it go?

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Speaker 2: You know, in the beginning it's different than now Okay,

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Speaker 2: we'll tell me both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So in the beginning, it was I would identify lone

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Speaker 2: wolf managers people that worked on their own okay, not

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Speaker 2: part of an infrastructure business. And in today's music business

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Speaker 2: you need so much help because it's management is so

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Speaker 2: much more time intense, and your job description is so

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Speaker 2: much different than what it was when I started. So

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Speaker 2: I can help you because I have an infrastructure and

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Speaker 2: you can use my services too. We'd like you to

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00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,160
Speaker 2: come in, you know, then you sit down and talk

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Speaker 2: and you do the deal. Now more people are coming

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Speaker 2: to us, you know, looking for a home or leaving

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Speaker 2: a major company, some that you have referenced to get

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Speaker 2: a different situation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, to what degree is there someone who's saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to work independently anymore, and

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Speaker 1: it's making the rounds and talking to everybody, and you're

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Speaker 1: part of that picture. Yeah that happens. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you're pitching me. Okay, I'm talking to the other

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00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: big companies. What is your cell? What is it that

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Speaker 1: you say?

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Speaker 2: The sell is totally the environment of our workplace, the

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Speaker 2: services we provide, and me as a person.

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Speaker 1: Okay, someone like Irving always takes fifteen, doesn't have a contract.

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Speaker 1: Other people take twenty. They get it all on paper.

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Speaker 1: Does everybody have the same deal with the acts in

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Speaker 1: your company now? No, Do you have a philosophy about that?

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Speaker 1: What percentages and whether we have paper?

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Speaker 2: I think yeah, paper is not always easy to get,

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00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 2: you know, And so it really depends on the thirst

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Speaker 2: for the manager or the artist, okay, because every manager

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Speaker 2: we have or every artist we have is a representation

348
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Speaker 2: of what we are. Okay. So sometimes no different than

349
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: buying cars or in cars are more expensive. I don't know,

350
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 2: you know, but it's it's I don't like working with

351
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: this or nothing. It's all about, hey, dude, I dig you,

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Speaker 2: let's do it. We'll figure it out. We'll figure out.

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00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 2: I dig you, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: So it's that kind of related. It's a hippie in mentality,

356
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 2: you know. It's like it's it's I do and it

357
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,440
Speaker 2: could be the wrong way to go, okay, but right

358
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: now it seems to be working. But it makes me happy.

359
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: And if I'm not happy, I don't want to do

360
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 2: this anymore other than you know, fleevand Macro, dis ease here,

361
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: Crowdhouse or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. Do you have enough money

363
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: so you don't have to do this if you didn't

364
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: want to?

365
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 2: Yes, My people in my personal world, business world, personal

366
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: business world, wonder why I do this? You know, why

367
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: are you doing this? You don't need to do this.

368
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: He is all the money you have from representing artists everything. Okay,

369
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: I started, I started. I started my company in a

370
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Speaker 1: one bedroom apartment with my wife and a new child,

371
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: and from there it just kept on going. Just to

372
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: be clear, what year are we talking about.

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Speaker 2: Well, I started in the mail room at Gallan Morey in.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, well let's let's hold that for a second, because.

375
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: When I was in the one room. Okay, ninety two,

376
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Speaker 2: ninety three.

377
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to some of the things you said.

378
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Speaker 1: You talked about your young team signing someone who had

379
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: a deal with Inner.

380
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: Scope, yet who didn't have a deal, who was inempenent.

381
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Speaker 2: We were putting music independentty but now has a deal

382
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Speaker 2: with Okay.

383
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: In the old days, the record company was an integral part. Okay,

384
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: would you sign an act? I realized everything is different

385
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: because you have different managers, et cetera. But talking about

386
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: general philosophy, how important is the label partner at this point,

387
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: and is it necessary.

388
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: I don't think the I don't think the label is

389
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 2: important to you need real muscle or real funding. Okay,

390
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: So as far as the development, I think we're more

391
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: equipped to develop than anyone. We know that the artist

392
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: is not one dimensional records only. It's a truly a

393
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,719
Speaker 2: management of three to sixty, not like the three sixty

394
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: the labels talk about. My goal when I sign an

395
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: artist is not putting out a single and having success.

396
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 2: Mine is having ten years what's in twenty years? You know,

397
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: and building a career. And really that's where the rewards

398
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: come in. It's not off a single. You know, it

399
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: might be too a label because they monetize and do

400
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: things differently.

401
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: Okay, not every act is a major label interested in right,

402
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: if you found an act that does not fit into

403
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: one of their slots, would you still work with the

404
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: actors say there's no deep pocket, I'm not interested.

405
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 2: No, we would work because there's ways to put out

406
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: music obviously, as you know in today's world that can

407
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: get attention without without going through traditional distribution or or

408
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: traditional record companies. You know, it's it's it's different. And

409
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: then I think if we really believe in that artist,

410
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: the labels will come and at that time we'll decide

411
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: if that's the right direction or not. I will sign

412
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: an act or I will encourage my managers to sign

413
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: an act based solely, not on algorithms or streams or monthlies,

414
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, on your belief or my belief in that

415
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: artist as a human being, as an artist, you know,

416
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: and and that they share a vision, you know. And

417
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: so that's how we.

418
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: So theoretically it could be a Klesmer artist.

419
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And theoretically yes.

420
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, let's go back to breaking down some of

421
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: these things. You have. Radio, How important is radio today?

422
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: One, it's very important to the artist, Okay. Whether it's

423
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: important in the big picture, not as much as it

424
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: used to be, obviously, but the artists still sees in

425
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: their mind radio and important thing. So I have we

426
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: have a band, okay that's on the Active Rock charts,

427
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: and it's had three number one singles on the Active

428
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: Rock chart on one record, and we're about to have

429
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 2: the fourth single. No one has fourth single, the fourth

430
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: single number one that is solely no, I won't say so.

431
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: That's that's from the efforts of Tyson, who's had my

432
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: radio apartment. Okay, he works it. He's on the road

433
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 2: constantly for and he does all our bands. You look

434
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: at artists like Scott Stapp and yeah, Creed is on

435
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: fire right now. And we bot when Scott came back

436
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: to me because I worked with him earlier on and

437
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: he said, I really haven't had six sess since being

438
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: with you. Dude, will you manage me again? I said, no,

439
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: I can't manage you, but this guy my company can.

440
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: But now he's got the highest ranking single he's ever

441
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: had in his career, you know, because of what we're

442
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: doing and how we're doing it. But okay, go back

443
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: to the band with the four number one singles or

444
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: three with potentially the fourth, Okay, is that changing their streams?

445
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: Their download is their record not physical record sales? Not

446
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: that much?

447
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: You know?

448
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: Is it helping their touring a little bit more okay

449
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 2: than the other things. So it's really about and it's

450
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: it's all John of specific how you have to market

451
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: and break a band, Okay in the active rock world,

452
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 2: which is still somewhat touring driven. Okay, And it's not

453
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: a When.

454
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: You say touring driven, you mean that's where the revenue

455
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: is or across pollination with the radio.

456
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where the revenue is really, you know, and

457
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: that's how the band survives, and so you know, in

458
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: other formats it's totally different. But talking about this one example,

459
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: they're touring goods bigger and bigger. They open up for

460
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 2: bigger acts, or they're headlining bigger venues, you know. And

461
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: so that's the goal because once you get a loyal

462
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: fan base that buys hard tickets, your career can go

463
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: on and on as long as you don't screw your

464
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: audience or do stuff they don't understand.

465
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: So just because you mentioned it, what might an act

466
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: do that the audience doesn't understand.

467
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: I'll tell you there's a there's a lot of things.

468
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 2: But if you if you go to a show and

469
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 2: you know five of their songs and you love those songs,

470
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: and you go to it, but they drop a new

471
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: song that's a disco song, their fans react and say

472
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: that I'm not into this. You lost me. You're not

473
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: who I thought you were. And this is a terrible, terrible,

474
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: crass example. But the reason McDonald's is so successful is

475
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: you know what you're getting when you go to McDonald's.

476
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: There are no surprises. You don't want to surprise your

477
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: You want to do better and better music and keep

478
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: putting out music because that's you know, legacy evolving. All

479
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: that's fine, but the genre switch is a very difficult thing. Okay,

480
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: So stay true to who you are and who your

481
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: audience is or you jeopardize losing your audience. Now, if

482
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: it's so important for you to go into the disco

483
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: world in this scenario, I don't know why I see disco,

484
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: but what the hell? And you know there's that risk,

485
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: but you still decide to do it. Well, that's your choice,

486
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: then okay, and we'll stick by and let's keep on

487
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: trying to make it work, you know. But usually those

488
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: relationships will go sou because then they're not satisfied because

489
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: they didn't break in that genre, the new genre, you know,

490
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: And so it can happen. I haven't really experienced that

491
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: with any of my personal bands that I manage, but

492
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: you see it when when you have a band and

493
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: there's one band member who's bored with what they're doing,

494
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: so they're going to go out and do a solo project,

495
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: and that solo project is so far removed from what

496
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: the band's image was and music was that their fans

497
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: show up from the band and go to the solo

498
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: show and it's totally different things. They don't come back,

499
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: So now you've got to build a whole new fan base,

500
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: usually at a later age that's almost impossible.

501
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: Just to be very clear, you're saying in this typothetical,

502
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: I have a band five members were active rock type people. Right,

503
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: I make a singer song right around, let's not go

504
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: totally up to Okay, you know see it's you know,

505
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: hip hop pop whatever something you know you can sort

506
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: of see. While I'm a musician, I make a quieter record,

507
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: and I make the record and I go on the road.

508
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: There are examples Todd run Green is run into this

509
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: where he goes on the road. Even though he tells

510
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: people I'm not doing the hits, I'm doing X, they

511
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: still come expecting the hits. But with this scenario, I

512
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: do my singer songwriter record. People know who I am.

513
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: You are saying the negative experience that we're proposing is

514
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: going to impact the band's business.

515
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: Ah, maybe not if there's separation, but it will pack

516
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: the potential success. But there are examples where my theory

517
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: is wrong or what I'm saying is wrong. You look

518
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: at Stained and Aaron or you and he goes in

519
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: the kind of country space. He did a great job.

520
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: And not that I'm a Stained fan or anything, but

521
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: watching the business of it, he did it, So you know,

522
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: so that is you know, that is one of those cases,

523
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: and there are other cases.

524
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: Well, let me just be very general, Okay. The hardest

525
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: thing today is to get traction at all and to

526
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: get noticed. And it's not driven as you're you're putting

527
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: radio down towards the bottom of the pyramid, and it's

528
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: not driven by the traditional methods. So once you gain traction,

529
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: to what degree are you saying advising the artists? You've

530
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: got to stay in the same path. Dude.

531
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 2: First of all, I'm not putting radio way down there,

532
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: and I don't want anyone out there to think I shut.

533
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: It out right, Okay. I got somebody working there, so

534
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: it's important.

535
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: And we have bands that work, can we let and

536
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: record radio stations have been very good to us, so

537
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: with all due respect, but there are other ways to

538
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: do it. Okay. So what was your question again, because

539
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: I focused on that one line.

540
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: Oh okay, let me say, is a lot of words

541
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: for a general, let me enter it a different way.

542
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: There are some managers who are completely transactional. I realize

543
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: you have twelve managers and none are going to be

544
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: the same. Some say to the act, you deliver the

545
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: record and I'll take care of the rest. Others want

546
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: to sit there and discuss with the act where the

547
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: record is going, what they're doing. What kind of manager

548
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: are you me?

549
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 2: Personally? I discussed with the artists. I'm very the bands

550
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: that I personally manage, right I am very close to Okay,

551
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: extremely close. I'm a well, since you're the manager, let's

552
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: just name those bands. Yeah. With zz Top, I'm extremely

553
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: close to the band. To Bailly, he's doing a solo

554
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: record right now. He sends me a song. Every time

555
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: he's done, we talk about it. I'd say, well, what

556
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: about this? What about that? And you know, stay on

557
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: course once again, stay on course, you know. So that's

558
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: you know, one example, Mick Fleetwood, who I've been around

559
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: for thirty five years, managing Fleetwood, Mac, managing Mac, et cetera.

560
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: He is doing this crazy record and this is kind

561
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: of out of what we're talking about, but since you

562
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: bring it up, but he's doing this record and what

563
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: happened when we ended the tour in twenty nineteen, the

564
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: last Fleetwood Mac tour. He's bored. He goes back to

565
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: his house in Maui and he's doodling on the guitar.

566
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: Eventually but ukulele to start and he's writing these songs

567
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: and they're really rough, you know, really rough. But he's

568
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: sending like five hundred a day to me in the

569
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: middle of the night. Okay, you know, hard to follow. Okay,

570
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: hard to follow, especially for me. But he has this

571
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: guy he communicates with, which this guy named Carl Fok

572
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: who's the Swedish producer that's part of the Max Martin

573
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: world all that kind of stuff. And he starts listening

574
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 2: to these tidbits and he's like, these are fucking amazing.

575
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: These are amazing. We need to get together and let's

576
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: write songs. So Mick and Carl write ten songs and

577
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: record demos of him in mixed studio and Maui. Keep

578
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: in mind that Mick had been in Fleetwood Mac for

579
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: sixty years whatever it is. No one ever has asked

580
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: him to write a song, right, No one asked him

581
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: if he could sing. He's singing on this too. I

582
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: mean we have other singers. Nobody's singing. No one ever asked,

583
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: including his manager Carl. No one said Mick write a song,

584
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: So shame on me, shame on everyone. These songs are

585
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: so amazing, and we have big name artists doing one

586
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: doing a song each on the record with Mick doing

587
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 2: some of the vocals, or one song mixes the whole vocals,

588
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: He wrote the whole music. So aa level artists, okay,

589
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 2: are all doing this. So I'm very involved in finding

590
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: those other ones. I'm involved in the songs, which ones

591
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: we should do. So going back to that original question,

592
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's that way or you know.

593
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 2: Then there's Neil Finn, who is, first of all, a

594
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 2: wonderful person, Okay, like a really really wonderful person who

595
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: I really like and I got to know when we

596
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: asked him to join Fleetwood Mac when Lindsay left, and

597
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: we built a great relationship during that tour, you know,

598
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: and we talked about me working with him and I

599
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: agreed because he was He's so talented. I mean, this

600
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: guy is incredible. So that relationship has blossomed that we're close.

601
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: I was staying with my family and his family and

602
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: his Greek compound on this island, you know, vacationing, and

603
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: he was at my wedding and sharing his wife is awesome.

604
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: So we're family, you know. And I become so close

605
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: to my clients that no one, no artist needs another friend. Okay.

606
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: But if you get along with them, you almost become

607
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: like a brother. Okay. You fight like a brother, you

608
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: love like a brother, You loyal like a brother, okay.

609
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: And that's really how it works with me. And fortunately,

610
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: my personality gets along with these people, you know. And

611
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: it might have to do with how I was brought

612
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 2: up or whatever it is, or how I moved around

613
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: the country my whole life because of what my dad did,

614
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, all this kind of stuff. So I can adapt,

615
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: you know, and I adjust.

616
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: Okay. Tell me about saying something to the artist that's

617
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: negative or they don't want to hear.

618
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: Well, you usually don't just say it out right. You

619
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: got a plan, okay. So it's really like, you know,

620
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: you're going back to music, okay, and an individual artist Okay.

621
00:36:52,880 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: Use that as the example. So Tommy Lee, okay, Molly

622
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: could CRUs not really happening at that time, and he

623
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: has issues with you know, the past thema, his actions,

624
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: his behavior, and he's really tired of talking about. Okay,

625
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: go write a book, and you be honest in that

626
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: book and tell him every answer to every one of

627
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: those questions, and you will not have to answer that

628
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: question again. He says, No, I'm not doing that. Now

629
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: you're doing it.

630
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: You're doing it.

631
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: I know the right writer who you'll understand. He'll be

632
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: tongue in cheek. It will be great, but you're being honest.

633
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: And if they ask you again, say hey, read my

634
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: book and walk away. And so he didn't want to

635
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: do it. He did it New York Times bestseller, written

636
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: with Anthony Bozo, who's fantastic, who also did Slash his

637
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: book for me, and Mick Flee's book and a few

638
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 2: others maybe and my thing I was doing. And he uh.

639
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: But then Tommy after that, you know, didn't want to

640
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: do the television show, which was you know, Tommy Lee

641
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: goes back to college. Yes, corny, but I wanted to

642
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: make him. I wanted to humanize him, okay, because he

643
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: wasn't human. He was known for smacking whatever and whomever

644
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: and all that shit. So so no, we're going to

645
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: do you know, an NBC television show, and Middle America

646
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: is going to not only see you as who you

647
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 2: are portrayed in the tabloids. So he's hating that idea.

648
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: But we come up with the idea. You're going back

649
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 2: to college, you're going to live in a dorm, and

650
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 2: you're going to join the swim team. What do you say?

651
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: You know? And he goes, well, if I don't want

652
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: to do that, well, how about this idea. You're going

653
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: to become a mayor of some small town in Kansas,

654
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: some small town in Kansas, and you're gonna be dealing

655
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: with parking tickets Fourth of July celebration, whatever it is. No,

656
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: I'll do the other one. Okay, we're doing the other one.

657
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: So that's to your question. You know, it's kind of

658
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: turn it around the other what's the alternative? Well, there's

659
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: not Or Tommy, I want to you know, I want

660
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: to make electric music. Okay, you know, and that is

661
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: not going to be easy, and you're fan base from

662
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: Molly Kruz will not come over to that. But that's

663
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: your choice. And he did it and he loves it,

664
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: so he does it out of his own musical passion,

665
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: and you don't want to stop that. Okay, So but

666
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 2: there's other things. You know, every artist I have is

667
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: that there's that time where there's that conversation you know,

668
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: with all of them, you know, and a lot of

669
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: the ones I don't want to bring up because yeah,

670
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: I'm loyal to my artists and clients and I don't

671
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: you know. But Tommy's okay, because he's a wonderful guy

672
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: and we talk about it. You know, he's great, and

673
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't work with him anymore, but I still love him.

674
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Okay. Let's go back to Mick Fleetwood's record. Yeah, in

675
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: the pre internet era, you get this record, the record

676
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: company would stir up all sorts of publicity. There'd be

677
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: a single that you would start probably on rock, reed

678
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: you try to cross over to pop or maybe late

679
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 1: ninety start on pop. There might even be a video.

680
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: Most of the acts of his generation don't even make

681
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: new music, and a lot of them that even the

682
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: biggest acts Elton John got a lot of publicity with

683
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: Brandy Carlisle put out the record. If you check, the

684
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: stream streams are anemic.

685
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: I know.

686
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So what do you do with somebody like included?

687
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: First of all, you go into the project realizing those

688
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: issues and those problems and making it clear to the

689
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: artists that these are the issues. But we should still

690
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: make this because it's important for you and parton for

691
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: your legacy, important for you. Letting people know whether it

692
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: sells or not is not as important as how it's reviewed,

693
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 2: how it's thought of, Okay, and look at it that way.

694
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: Now cut to the realities of how you do work

695
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: it once you do put it out. Well, on this

696
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: particular record, it's self financed, okay, and when it's done,

697
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: which is soon, we'll go out and get a traditional

698
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: record deal, okay. And then how we're going to work

699
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: that record okay, because radio is meaningless, although certain artists

700
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: that we have on it it could work big time.

701
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: So it's really just to be clear.

702
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: Do you have pop artists.

703
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: We have pop artists, we have country artists, we have

704
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 2: urban hip hop artists.

705
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: So cornicle wall genre you cover.

706
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a cornicop yes, say yes, a collage.

707
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: But this record will live by single download streaming world only.

708
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 2: It's not going to ever sell like a record, you know,

709
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 2: because this pop artists their fans don't go along with

710
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: the country artists. Okay, So each individual record single song

711
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: is a different release and that's how you do it.

712
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: But at the same time, yeah, you look at the

713
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: Dolly parton record, Okay, didn't do anything. There was so

714
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: much hype on that, right, you know, nightfully, So she's

715
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 2: a great artist, you know, but it didn't do anything.

716
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: Compilation records don't do anything anymore, you know. Soundtrack records

717
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: bear a few do you know. But that's it And

718
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: this is no different than that. So it's a song

719
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: by song effort, and it's utilizing the social media of

720
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: those individual artists every time we put out a record.

721
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: Leit wait wait wait wait. So we talked second ago

722
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: about making these records this important part of the legacy. Okay,

723
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: But the way you're talking now is you are looking

724
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: to get lucky. Lucky sort of makes it sound like

725
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: you're not making any effort. I'm trying to say, you

726
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: are trying to create sparks that might create a fire.

727
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: You're still trying to do that.

728
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: You don't give up, you know, you still try for

729
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: the success because is that truly will even enhance the

730
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 2: legacy and maybe create future projects like this for him,

731
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: for that artist. Okay, And so you want success because

732
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: also the amount of effort we put into this. You

733
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: want to see some return.

734
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: You know.

735
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: We're doing a documentary around it with a great documentary team,

736
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: and we don't know when that will come out because

737
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: I've got the Fleetwood Mac documentary with Apple with Frank

738
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: Marshall directing, So we've got to hold back on that

739
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: or make it.

740
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: Let's just stop for a second of Fleetwood Mac. How

741
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: does the management work? Okay? Howard Kaufman is dead. Irving

742
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: represents Stevie. No, No, Irving doesn't represent Okay, how does

743
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: it work?

744
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: It's over the term that over the time I've been there,

745
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 2: it's changed, okay, based on death.

746
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: You know.

747
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: So my mentor mentor was Howard Kaufman. Sure, okay, because

748
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: he could have tossed me at any time in the

749
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: early years of Fleetwood Mac. Carl you in the way bye,

750
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: I'll tell Fleetwood we're getting ready to you or there's

751
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: no tour because I have Stevie right, Okay. He never

752
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: did that. He let me do my thing. He didn't

753
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 2: always believe in what I was doing, but it ended

754
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 2: up paying off what I was doing. So they looked

755
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: at it from different eyes, and he taught me a

756
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 2: lot but so back then it was just Howard to die. Okay.

757
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 2: Then Lindsay hires Irving as his solo manager. Okay, now

758
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: Irving's the picture. But Howard passes away. So then Stevie

759
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: for her solo stuff stayed with Sheryl Lewis, who worked

760
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: for Howard, because there'd be a conflict with me because

761
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: I want Fleetwood Mac okay and so. And then when

762
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: Lindsay Laughed left, well, Irving didn't have any artists in

763
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: Fleewood Max, so he was no longer involved and it

764
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,479
Speaker 2: was just me. Okay, but I've always been there half

765
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: and half one tour or a third and then the

766
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: whole type of thing, you know, So it's always changing.

767
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: But a tenth of Fleewood Max is an amazing thing.

768
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: So I'm happy, you know, I had I never had

769
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: an issue with that, and they never had an issue

770
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: Irving Howard. They've protected me my career. You know, we

771
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 2: get along. I love Irving. He helped me get out

772
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: of Sanctuary with the Universal. He was the one who

773
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: did my deal to get out with Lucien. And you know,

774
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: they're good people to me, and I'm loyal to them,

775
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: and they've helped me in my career, and it gets

776
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: it gets a bit difficult with fleetod Mac when there

777
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: are so many people involved. But the last tour it

778
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: was I was the Fleetwood Mac man. Cheryl Lewis was

779
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: involved because she's Stevie's manager, Okay, Mick and John on

780
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: the trademark the name, so that comes with me too, Okay.

781
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: So it's a complex thing, but it's been an awesome thing,

782
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: I mean just awesome.

783
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

784
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: What did you learn from Howard Kauffman, Slow down, Carl Wisdom.

785
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: He was a different kind of manager than me, though,

786
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: you know, I just learned to be cool like him,

787
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 2: because if you knew Howard, you know he was a

788
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: guy who is never on the microphone or in a picture,

789
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 2: you know, or doing press. And one thing I learned

790
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: from him was I was going to be the same way.

791
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: This is really my first podcast ever and that there

792
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: was another interview the other day which was my first

793
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 2: interview ever after thirty five years in the business. Whatever

794
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 2: it is, you know, it's like I never wanted that,

795
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 2: you know, and I think that I think that that's

796
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: how Howard was. He was always he came from a

797
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: financial background, accounting background, Okay, so he taught me a

798
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: lot about that which I didn't know that much about.

799
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: But I learned from him, and I learned to pay

800
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: attention of those to those things. And the other thing.

801
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 2: He was always like, don't overthink it, make a move,

802
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 2: just do it, just do it. You know, any decisions

803
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: better than no decisions, kid, you know, and that kind

804
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: of philosophy, you know.

805
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: And little since you're close to Irving, what do you

806
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 1: can learn from Irving? Really?

807
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: How he's really an amazing businessman, okay, you know, and

808
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: not coming from a business background. I learned a lot

809
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: about business. I learned a lot about having an opinion,

810
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 2: who you trust, who you don't trust, you know, staying

811
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: close to the people you trust, and never screw with him, never,

812
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: you know, because if you screw with a guy.

813
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: Like that, you know.

814
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: But I don't know, I don't know specifically, but I

815
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: know if if I if I call Irving right now,

816
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: he will pick up the and he'll call me right

817
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: back and he'll answer any question or Irving, I have

818
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: someone that needs to get into UCLA right away. All right,

819
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm calling them now. I'll call you right back. Boom

820
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: they're in. You know, He's just that guy for me

821
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: and for many people. I'm sure I'm not exclusive to

822
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: Irving's attention. There are a lot of people, I'm sure.

823
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: But he's that guy. He's on it. He doesn't sleep,

824
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: you know, and he does, but I mean bigularly, and

825
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: he's available to me. That must mean to everybody twenty

826
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 2: four to seven. He's the work ethic, you know, it's incredible, incredible,

827
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: and I don't think anyone can reproduce what his work

828
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: ethic is.

829
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: Let's go back to some of the core issues of

830
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: the services you provide. Tell me about streaming. Anybody can

831
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: get their song on the service. What is your philosophy

832
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: with playlisting, marketing other things with the major services?

833
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's a question which would

834
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: have a different answer every month you ask that question.

835
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm asking right now.

836
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, playlists aren't as important as they used to be. Okay,

837
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: just to be clear, because because people aren't listening to

838
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: it like they used to. Okay, and you know, every

839
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: artist wants a certain playlist or a couple of specific playlists,

840
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: but then you get them and it really doesn't move

841
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: the needle that much. And although you still want to

842
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: have it because it's at tension or it's a stat

843
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: you know whatever. Okay, I think everything's driven by unfortunately

844
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: not YouTube. I mean, excuse me, TikTok Okay, TikTok. You know,

845
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:16,959
Speaker 2: but certain demographic don't understand TikTok, so it can't help

846
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 2: those people, but it can help the younger people. And

847
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: it's so of the moment, and it moves so fast everything,

848
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: And you know, that's why I have shared services people

849
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: to educate me, because what the hell do I know.

850
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 2: I'm just an old dude who's been managing for a while,

851
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: who has amazing artists, you know. So that's why I

852
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: brought this in if I was going to grow to

853
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: have that, so someone could advise me or advise the

854
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: managers who are a lot smarter in that world than I,

855
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: you know.

856
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: So give me your snapshot of TikTok.

857
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 2: Annoying.

858
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: But I think it's annoying on a business level or

859
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: annoying on an experience.

860
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 2: I think I'm both. Okay, I think and on the

861
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: experience level, that's only a personal opinion. On the business level,

862
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: it makes it very tricky because what works on TikTok

863
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily what works for me and my beliefs of art,

864
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, of art, okay, And so there's a conflict there.

865
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 2: Then you talk to a legacy artists say we'll go

866
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: on TikTok, Dude, what the fuck am I going to do?

867
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden they're like doing it,

868
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: and yet they're trying too hard and it's not coming

869
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: off naturally and it doesn't work, or he needs it

870
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: more scripted and drawn out, or she does and it

871
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 2: just doesn't work. You know. But kids doing you know,

872
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 2: machine gun and Kelly type stuff or you know, whoever

873
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: and who are so persistent in it can really have

874
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: an impact, you know. But you can't get a a

875
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: bono and obviously I don't manage bono, but an artist

876
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 2: like that or Stevie or whatever to commit to doing

877
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 2: delivering three assets a day that lives on TikTok, they're

878
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 2: not going to do it, okay. So without that impact,

879
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 2: it's not going to really work. So it's it's got

880
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: to be dedicated and the artist has to be dedicated

881
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: towards to that for TikTok to make the movement, the

882
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 2: bar movement all so okay.

883
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: You know, for years now, acts have had social media teams.

884
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm posting on Facebook. You know, I'm putting

885
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: up stuff. Hey do you still do that? And to

886
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: what extent be when it comes to like TikTok, do

887
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: you say, if you're not doing it yourself, we're not

888
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: even gonna do it at all.

889
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: I don't know if I say if you don't doing

890
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 2: it yourself, we're not doing it at all. I say,

891
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 2: if you're not going to partner with us to do

892
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 2: it and provide access and the energy to do it,

893
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: then there's no point in doing it. Okay. What was

894
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: the other part of the question.

895
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think that kind of answers it, and okay,

896
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 1: so let's assume you have an act. In the old days,

897
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: there weren't many opportunities outside the music, and then in

898
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: the late sixties and seventies, the philosophy was we're not

899
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: going to do endorsements, not going to do sponsorships. They're

900
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: going to hurt us. Now there's some classic examples here.

901
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, the Beatles set the trend, not because they

902
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: knew what they were doing, they just did it. But

903
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 1: then you had people conscious like Neil Young said I'm

904
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: not going to do it, and he maintains credibility. The

905
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: other three do not, even though certainly Steven Stills has

906
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: incredible talent. David Crosby now dead. Okay, so what is

907
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: your philosophy with an act saying sponsorship, endorsements, merge that

908
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: kind of stuff.

909
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, TV changed the world, okay,

910
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: of how artists look at that, and then the Internet

911
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: changed the world how you look at it? And I

912
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 2: think it's hard. If the brand you're associate the brand

913
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 2: the artist is associating with makes sense for that artist,

914
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: it's great. Okay, it's great. And or the business they're

915
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: getting in makes sense for that artist, I think it's great.

916
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 2: I think that if Fleetwood Mac did a Jack in

917
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 2: the Box commercial or whatever, it would kill It would

918
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 2: be bad, just bad, okay, But if they did, if

919
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 2: a McK fleewood did a Louis Vuitton like Sean Connery did, Okay.

920
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: That won't hurt.

921
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: I mean because he's a traveler or whatever.

922
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: You know.

923
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like that, and I think, you know,

924
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 2: the sponsorship of tours is pretty much going away, you know,

925
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 2: because they didn't do anything for those brands, but building

926
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 2: lifestyle or products that make sense for that that individual

927
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: band is good, I think. And what it does is

928
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: it protects the artists from living in a cyclical world

929
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: of dropping music touring, dropping music touring, you know whatever

930
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: it is, okay, and it builds a business for them

931
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: that continues. And if you have a brand like a Zeezier,

932
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac, those are worldwide recognized image in Nay, okay,

933
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: how do we do that? So Mick Fleetwood did Fleetwood's

934
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: on Front Street in Maui. It was extremely successful restaurant.

935
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 2: People loved it. He would be there every night like

936
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: a matre d you know, he'd play when Steven Tyler

937
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: was don Maui or whatever. They get up and jam.

938
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: And we had a restaurant that was doing probably top

939
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: two restaurants in all of Maui, you know, revenue wise,

940
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: and then the fire burned it down. Heina, but it

941
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: was a great asset to Mic. You know, it was

942
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 2: a perfect environment for him. So was a wine because

943
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 2: he was in the rest from business. He outside of wine, okay.

944
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: You know with Tommy Lee, we did the television shows.

945
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,959
Speaker 2: We did a t shirt line, a G line, Jane

946
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 2: line that made sense for who he was. That's what

947
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: he wore. T shirt ripped off T shirts and you

948
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: know whatever. So it was okay, you know, if you're

949
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:21,479
Speaker 2: talking about if you're talking about Adele doing a.

950
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 1: Okay, wait wait, wait, let me stop you. I think

951
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: your concept is clear. A manager only gets paid when

952
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: the act makes a deal. When the act is making money,

953
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: agent the same thing. So, certainly in the twenty first century,

954
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: it looks like a lot of people have made deals

955
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: because the percentage partner is gonna get paid, especially in

956
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: a world you're dealing with a lot of legacy acts,

957
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 1: especially in the world where the acts come and go,

958
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: the business people remain and they say, I'm gonna take

959
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: this money off the table. Okay, I'm gonna do this.

960
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: They never say the artist, no, not good for your

961
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 1: career whatever. What's your take.

962
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 2: There, Well, I think that's selling your I think that's

963
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: selling your artists down the road if you take it

964
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: just because there's money involved.

965
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: It's never that black and what.

966
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: It is to me though, it is to me.

967
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: But give me tell me something you told your artists

968
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: not to do. God an actual example.

969
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: I can't think of one, really. I think that there's

970
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: been there's been examples. But oh, one of my older

971
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: artists a huge paycheck for cialis commercial. Nope, don't do it.

972
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 2: No I should do it. No, don't do it. Wife,

973
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: Yes you should do it. I say, no, you're not

974
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 2: doing it.

975
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: So the act wanted to do it, Yeah, but I didn't.

976
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: Can you tell us how much money was involved?

977
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 2: No? It was seven figures. And then there're what about

978
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: z Eezy top cut your beard, Gillette, Well to a

979
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: commercial cutting your beards off and we'll give you a

980
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 2: million bucks. Okay, We're not doing that. Guys, it's foolish.

981
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: They agreed with me, but I mean they come in

982
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: and I don't sell them on it. I'm like, hell no,

983
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: I don't need that money. That's the beauty of how

984
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: we set up this company because I didn't need the money, okay.

985
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: And I'm not bragging about money, but I didn't need it, okay.

986
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 2: So everything we do or I do, is really about

987
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: doing what's right, enjoying it, and what's good for the artist.

988
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: You know, it's not about me.

989
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: Okay. Well, let's stay with some of the deals that

990
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: are offered these legacy artists. What is your viewpoint on

991
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: selling your rights, publishing, royalty interests.

992
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, we've sold I've been involved in a bunch

993
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 2: of sales, okay, and it all depends on the individual artist, okay.

994
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 2: And I think if the artist is sixty five or older, okay,

995
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense to do it from

996
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: a financial standpoint. But a lot of deals, you know,

997
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: when you make that deal, you have to have some

998
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 2: ability to veto what they might use your product and

999
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: what's your music. And I've been fortunate too, by way

1000
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: of relationships to put those stipulations in an agreement. And

1001
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 2: it took a while because we'd fight back and forth.

1002
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,479
Speaker 2: But there's also stuff I put in an agreement that

1003
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 2: if we overperform in any one year, they still get

1004
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: a percentage passed through to them, even though you own

1005
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of it now okay, So there's safeguards

1006
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: you put in there. But they're collecting the money up front, okay.

1007
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: Just to make the numbers easy. I'm over sixty five,

1008
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm only selling and publishing selling it for a hundred minus.

1009
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: Just to make the numbers of you. You're saying you

1010
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: have a clause in the contract such that I can

1011
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: get paid again.

1012
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: The band can get paid. Yeah, yes, and not in

1013
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: all the deals I've achieved it.

1014
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: When you've achieved that, how is that clause written? Because

1015
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: if for no other reason, you know, you can have

1016
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: a big year because you're featured in an end title

1017
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: on a Netflix show. In In addition, there can be

1018
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: steady increases because of new avenues of monetization with you know, Twitch, discord,

1019
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you

1020
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: actually construct something like that?

1021
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: You just merely say you're buying this on an average

1022
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 2: of the catalog that you're selling makes a millionaire? Okay,

1023
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: a millionaire anytime we go over a million a year

1024
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 2: in revenue that you've collected, we get a piece of

1025
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: that above a million.

1026
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, how big a piece might

1027
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: it be depends on the artist. I mean, is it

1028
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: five percent? Is it twenty five percent?

1029
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 2: I gotta calculate it because I just got another check million.

1030
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: It's it's like, okay, now they're not buying these assets

1031
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,959
Speaker 1: and one thing that people buy them there other than merk,

1032
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: maybe all these people are very sophisticated financially. They're making

1033
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: the money, so they're expecting to both get their money

1034
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: and make more money. Otherwise they're not going to do

1035
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: it right. Okay, so there's a issues of inflation. Be

1036
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: give you an example which you don't represent, but I know, okay, Toto,

1037
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: they didn't sell, but they're just like this, all of

1038
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, Wheezer does Africa and it blows it up

1039
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: with your contract. I'm going to get with pulling the number,

1040
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get thirty percent of the upside. Let's just

1041
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: assume that stays at a high level.

1042
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 2: And it keeps going. But that's why none of not

1043
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 2: many companies would have done that. It was a relationship

1044
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 2: thing that they did with me. Okay, I don't have

1045
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: that on online.

1046
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay, but let's just say in your particular case, the

1047
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: number that you get in excess, let's just make it easy.

1048
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: You see a million dollars, so you're making a million dollars.

1049
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: Now over a million, the act gets thirty percent or

1050
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: ten depending on the Okay, we're just talking. I know.

1051
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: But what about my y Okay, you put it just

1052
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: to be just to make the numbers easy. So you

1053
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: went to middlebary digit, Yes I did.

1054
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: We can talk about that. But let me just finish

1055
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: this point. The million dollar floor would not inflate. It

1056
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: might last for thirty years.

1057
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's the risk. The thing was they early

1058
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: on on these deals three years ago, whatever I ran

1059
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: was okay, it was about market share too. Okay, it

1060
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 2: wasn't about just business. It was market share and press

1061
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: releases and saying then that would gather then. So it's

1062
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: a lost lead or whatever you want to call it.

1063
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: But that could be the case. You know. The other

1064
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 2: important part to the artist is some creative control or

1065
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: veto right, which some of the agreements have that specifically

1066
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 2: written in it, some don't. But then it's a relationship

1067
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: because if you're just selling the publishing, well, I'm never

1068
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 2: going to prove the master then, so you're not going

1069
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: to get it anyways. Okay. So there's a lot of

1070
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 2: ways to protect. There's a lot of ways to enhance,

1071
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: get gather more or save you know, save the name.

1072
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 2: And it's not in a political campaign. You know that

1073
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: you don't believe in it. Okay, So there needs to

1074
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 2: be this.

1075
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: Oh okay, when you've made these deals, how much have

1076
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: you done the negotiation and how much has the attorney

1077
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: done in the negotiation.

1078
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: Managers not allowed to negotiate.

1079
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, under California law and no, but it's a

1080
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: manager for resident.

1081
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 2: I'm a Tennessee resident actually so.

1082
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: Yes, but it's got to do where the contract is. Really.

1083
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 2: But but the thing is is I'm I can say

1084
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,479
Speaker 2: I'm very hands on. I find the deal. I don't

1085
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: negotiate it, but I set the parameters of the deal

1086
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 2: and what we're looking for. And then the attorney gets

1087
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: involved and comes back to me and say, Nope, not

1088
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 2: doing it that way, doing it this way. They call me,

1089
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 2: they work me talk to the attorney, and I go

1090
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: back to the attorney, you know, and he's doing the negotiations.

1091
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 2: But I'm very involved my attorneys. Uh, and we have

1092
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: a lot of great attorneys, you know. But I go

1093
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 2: get the deals. Okay, I get deals. I don't rely

1094
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 2: on on whomever you whoever, big name attorney to find

1095
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 2: me deals. I do them all myself, you know, because

1096
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 2: that's and you can draft it and you can do specifics.

1097
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 2: But I like making deals and I like going out

1098
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: and chewing it up with the guy. You know.

1099
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, let's switch gears again. So your anchor

1100
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: in Fleetwood Mac is Mick Fleetwood. How did you get

1101
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: connected to myth Gleewood.

1102
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 2: A great story. You know, it's unbelievable. You know, when

1103
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 2: I worked at Sandy Gallen this is right around right

1104
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 2: before then, I was fortunate enough to work for a

1105
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 2: guy named Barry Josephson. And Barry left Gallen Morey to

1106
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 2: work for Joel Silver, the film producer. He was working

1107
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 2: on an artist named Andrew Dice Clay. Okay, so all

1108
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 2: of a sudden he leaves. I become close to Dice.

1109
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 2: Dice convinces me to leave Sandy and be his director

1110
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 2: of development because he had a we were going to

1111
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 2: do a film deal, television deal, director of touring. He

1112
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 2: was selling out Madison Square Garden and run my business

1113
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 2: like really a manager's job. So I took that job on.

1114
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 2: We had huge, huge success, and that was my first client,

1115
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, And it was like an experience because it

1116
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: was in all businesses. Somebody who in mixed business manager's

1117
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: office knew me and was telling the story of my

1118
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: success with Dice. And keep in mind were a lot

1119
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: of people involved. Okay, so I'm not taking away, but

1120
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 2: what I did and how I got in and I

1121
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 2: was young, okay, road and so he goes, I want

1122
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 2: to meet this cat, So I get this call from

1123
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 2: a business manager says, hey, Fleetwood wants to meet you.

1124
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 2: Will you come in? Yeah, I'll be there tomorrow, no problems, problem,

1125
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 2: what you are we in? Let's see, I got to

1126
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 2: go back to Clinton Clinton ninety four. I guess, yeah,

1127
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 2: ninety two, Okay, ninety two, Okay, thank you. So that

1128
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: was ninety two, and Fleetwood and I sit in a

1129
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 2: room with his then fiance to be ex wife at

1130
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 2: some point, but a wonderful woman. Okay, she and our

1131
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 2: friends still. But within an hour of leaving the meeting,

1132
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 2: I get a call and I go, Fleetwood's hiring you

1133
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 2: come back or whatever. I go back. He goes, here,

1134
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 2: here's what we're doing. We got the band the Zoo

1135
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 2: out okay, which we're selling pretty good records, that band

1136
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 2: that was happening, And he says, but my dream is

1137
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 2: getting Fleetwood Mac up and running again. How are we

1138
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: going to do that? So I came up with this

1139
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 2: plan and we ended up doing the dance, which was

1140
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 2: the MTV special five million records Tour of the year,

1141
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: you know. And so in my way working with Fleetwood,

1142
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 2: we got everyone together. Okay, how I did it? I

1143
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 2: don't really want to sing.

1144
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to jump back before it jump forward. Now,

1145
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: let's say you're involved in selling somebody's rights. Seemingly all

1146
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: your big acts you were not there for minute one,

1147
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, zsy.

1148
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 2: Top, none of them Bokay, so I was forever last,

1149
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 2: but he fired me, right.

1150
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: So what it comes to an act that's had a

1151
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: forty year career and you're selling the rights of the publishing.

1152
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: How do you decide what the commission is? Is it

1153
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:32,520
Speaker 1: your standard commission?

1154
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 2: Now I give him a reduction because they're getting forty million,

1155
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 2: fifty whatever it is, you know, off of one person, okay,

1156
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 2: in a band or it was easy, it was the

1157
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 2: whole thing, but the whole band. But I reduce it.

1158
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 2: But it's still a substantial percentage. And I think I've

1159
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 2: been really fortunate with my clients that they were willing

1160
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 2: to always take care of me. You know, if you

1161
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 2: look at ZIZI. I've been with zz for seventeen years,

1162
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 2: how many managers you know, except for a few, you know,

1163
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 2: Tony demitriotis Petty, Dave Matthews, and but there's very few.

1164
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 2: And they're loyal and I'm loyal and they know that,

1165
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: you know. And and these were all done during COVID,

1166
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 2: and it made sense, and I'm happy they did it,

1167
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 2: and I and I did very well during COVID.

1168
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: So you pull the number out of your ass, how

1169
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: do you get a number to sell it for? No?

1170
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: Your percentage?

1171
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 2: It's a conversation just between that person and I.

1172
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: Well, no one likes to give up money.

1173
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 2: They I don't know if that's true.

1174
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into artists. One thing new,

1175
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: I won't talk about artists. That's not necessarily true. No, No,

1176
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 1: here is the story with artists. This is the one

1177
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: and only thing they can do. Their name is on

1178
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: the marquee. You can always get another act. You're behind

1179
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: the scenes. There's for desperations, got a negative quality. But

1180
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: the nature of these acts at that core they know

1181
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,719
Speaker 1: that somehow, and they're not like regular people. They wouldn't

1182
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: have become that successful without it. That doesn't mean they

1183
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: can't be reasonable. But these are not your everyday.

1184
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 2: People, clearly not. But what's your question then? At what's

1185
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 2: your point?

1186
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know. I don't think there's a

1187
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: specific question there. But let's go back to think.

1188
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 2: I can only speak about my experience, okay, and my

1189
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: experience is that all my clients have always been fair

1190
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 2: to me, and they have never except I feel little

1191
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 2: small things, ever questioned. And then and then I'll go

1192
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 2: to them and say, hey, you know what to be fair?

1193
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 2: So and so I'm not going to take fifteen percent

1194
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,719
Speaker 2: across on this. I'm not going to do that, Okay,

1195
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 2: but I will take I do think I deserved this much.

1196
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 1: So you won't toss out an initial number on a

1197
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: huge p day.

1198
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, or some people of some artists, based on a relationship,

1199
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 2: say what do you think is fair? And they might

1200
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 2: say that I said, well maybe this, well maybe that

1201
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 2: the okay, cool, let's do it.

1202
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: I no, have you ever had an experience with the

1203
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 1: artist says well, this is what I think it was fair,

1204
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 1: and it's less than you think is fair.

1205
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 2: No, no, no, And I'm not bullshit. I'm serious. It

1206
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: hasn't happened to me. I've been lucky. I take it.

1207
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: You know, you know, let's go back to Fleetwood Mac.

1208
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: I know on some level you said they didn't want

1209
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: to get back to what do we know Fleetwood Mac.

1210
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: They performed to Clinton's inaugurations, singing don't stop whatever? What

1211
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: was the impediment? John mcviee's seeming legals show. Well, we're

1212
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 1: doing it, we're doing it. Okay, he's there with Mick Mix.

1213
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: More of the business guys managed the band for an

1214
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: interim there. What was the hang up in getting them

1215
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: back together?

1216
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: I think it was just individual lives. I think Stevie

1217
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 2: was doing her thing, Lindsay was doing his thing. And

1218
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 2: at the time they got back together, Lindsay was in

1219
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 2: the studio making a record, and at that he had

1220
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 2: a manager at that time, and they called a manager

1221
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 2: and I said, hey, why don't you get Mick and

1222
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,879
Speaker 2: Lindsay together. You know, Lindsay's had a lot of success

1223
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 2: with Mick in the studio with him and Mix not

1224
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 2: a producer, but he's a vibe you know, he's a

1225
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 2: vibe guy, and he knows the sound and all that.

1226
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 2: So maybe you have him come down and let's talk,

1227
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: you know. And so that happened, and then all of

1228
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 2: a sudden, well why don't we get sell and so down?

1229
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: Why don't we get sell and so down. Then they're

1230
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 2: all in a room, you know, recording on Lindsay's record.

1231
01:12:54,640 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: Then you're out there looking at opportunity. Okay, let's go

1232
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 2: to a promoter and see what they pay for a

1233
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 2: fleeting back tour. So I did that without the band

1234
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 2: really being aware of it, but just to see so

1235
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 2: I could be honest and educate the band. Why not,

1236
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 2: you know, number was insane. I wonder if MTV would

1237
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 2: do a special if they got back together. I can

1238
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 2: remember Howard, I think it was Howard. There's no way

1239
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 2: that will happen. Okay, well let me just see, you know.

1240
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 2: And so it happened, and it made sense that they

1241
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: did it and became and they did they all got

1242
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 2: it and did it. We recorded a concert. We peppered

1243
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: the audience with current artists too, to make it look

1244
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 2: you know, make they were fans, but to make sure

1245
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 2: people on television realized, you know that this is cross genre,

1246
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 2: this is cross demographic, okay, whatever it is. And we

1247
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 2: did that and cover Rolling Stone popped up and just

1248
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: kept on going, you know, it kept on okay.

1249
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 1: But generally speaking, the members of the band were saying,

1250
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: if the numbers line up were in it, you didn't

1251
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:01,839
Speaker 1: have to do any arm twisting.

1252
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 2: No, there was some politics, but not arm twisting. Christine

1253
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 2: was in right away because wonderful person, you know, and

1254
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 2: just she didn't want to ever be a She was

1255
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 2: a person that didn't want to be a star. Okay,

1256
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 2: respect to that, okay. And she didn't mind sharing the stage.

1257
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 2: She wasn't about going doing another solo record, you know.

1258
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 2: So she was just sitting there in her castle and

1259
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: Edinburgh or whatever the hell it is, you know. And

1260
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: John's out on his boat crossing the Pacific, you know,

1261
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 2: and Hi cool.

1262
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 1: You know.

1263
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 2: Mick eager to keep his band because he started it

1264
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 2: in the sixties. That's all he's ever known is sleeping back,

1265
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 2: you know. It is it's more than a band, or

1266
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,679
Speaker 2: it's more than making money. To him, it's what I do,

1267
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 2: you know. So he's in. And then Lindsay and Stevie

1268
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 2: have their solo projects and both very successful. So how

1269
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: do you find the time to get into their schedule

1270
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 2: based on their success? And it just worked out.

1271
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: Okay. You said that Mick was at your wedding. That

1272
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 1: would imply that you've been married multiple times.

1273
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 2: Well, no, Mick was only at Mick was at my Yes,

1274
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 2: I've been married three times. One time was for two

1275
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 2: months right before I got married, right before I start

1276
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 2: in the mail room. Okay, that lasted two months because

1277
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 2: I got in the mail room, met Dice left. Okay,

1278
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 2: we're still friends. Okay, we're still friends. Then my other

1279
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: wife was the mother of two of my boys. We

1280
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 2: got married in Vegas after a mix show and we

1281
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 2: did it like at the Elvis Chapel or one of

1282
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 2: those things. And it was Fleetwood who put the whole

1283
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 2: thing together. And it was like Beck and Bramlet, Dave Mason,

1284
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 2: all these people were in the audience all, you know.

1285
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 2: And we got married and she was pregnant at the time,

1286
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 2: and they made me marry her and I was happy

1287
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 2: to and I shouldn't say maybe, but they created it.

1288
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 2: And so he was at that one. He wasn't at

1289
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 2: this last one, which was in twenty January twenty twenty

1290
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 2: with Dana, who I share a four year old son.

1291
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 2: So I have I've had three boys. Neil was there.

1292
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 2: Neil Finn was at that one.

1293
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:26,520
Speaker 1: The second marriage. How long did that last?

1294
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 2: Twelve years?

1295
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: And why did that end?

1296
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 2: Because my career was blowing up and I wasn't the

1297
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 2: best best husband. I was a good father, I thought,

1298
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 2: but I think but I was gone the whole time.

1299
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 2: I had influences around me that made me a little crazier,

1300
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 2: you know, and my priorities might not have been in

1301
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:54,799
Speaker 2: the right place. And we still talk. You know, everything's

1302
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 2: I you know.

1303
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: Okay, So the present wife Dana, When and how did

1304
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: you meet her? It's a good one.

1305
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 2: It was fashion week in New York City. Zz Top

1306
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 2: was playing the John Varvados show. There's a cat named Jordan,

1307
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,680
Speaker 2: she who ran Geffen, you know. And I was in

1308
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 2: his office one day with Pete Jorn okay, and Jordan

1309
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 2: pulled out a picture of his wife and next to

1310
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 2: the wife was this girl, stunning girl. Who the hell

1311
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 2: is that? And she goes, oh, that's Dana Rossi and

1312
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 2: I said, wow, I want to meet her. And so

1313
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 2: they hooked it up because she hadn't been be in Philadelphia,

1314
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 2: where her parents were live, and she took the train

1315
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: up to New York to come to the party, got

1316
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 2: her hotel room. Because we didn't know each other, but

1317
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 2: I just wanted to meet her, you know. So she

1318
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 2: came in for the night.

1319
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: She was a model. What was she doing?

1320
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 2: She was not a model. She owned a boutique in

1321
01:17:54,920 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 2: Santa Monica called Dame and she's stopped. Yeah, she's really American, Italian,

1322
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 2: American or whatever you call it, but really beautiful. And

1323
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 2: it started there and she didn't like me in the beginning,

1324
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 2: and I had to work on it and it ended

1325
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 2: up and then we ended up getting married. And now

1326
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: we have Rome and our four year old son, and

1327
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 2: we live in Sun Valley, Idaho, and still have our

1328
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 2: home in La, office in La Nashville, home in Nashville,

1329
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 2: office in Nashville. But my four year old goes to

1330
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 2: preschool in Sun Valley at a school called Community, which

1331
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 2: is amazing school. And that's where they are all the time.

1332
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 2: I'm there all the time unless I'm traveling on business.

1333
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:43,600
Speaker 1: I end up in Ketchum.

1334
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:51,480
Speaker 2: When I the end of from ninth grade to graduating

1335
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: high school. I live in Seattle, Okay, and Ketchum harbors

1336
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 2: a lot of Seattleites, especially back in the day less

1337
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 2: now now because more draw there. When I dropped out

1338
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 2: of college Eastern Washington State College, I was a skier

1339
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 2: all my life, you know, I was. I went to

1340
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: private school in East Coast where we ski all day.

1341
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 1: And where'd you go to private school?

1342
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 2: I went to private school in New Jersey, actually a

1343
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 2: school called Farbro that had uh it was like a

1344
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 2: school without walls, and so they had this guy John

1345
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 2: franz And who was part of the Swiss ski team,

1346
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 2: who was a teacher. So he would bring me up

1347
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: to Vermont and we would study till nine and then

1348
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 2: I'd ski with him, and then we'd go back study

1349
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 2: some more, and then we'd crash out and did that

1350
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,799
Speaker 2: for a month like every year type of thing. Okay.

1351
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 2: And I was really into skiing, and so in Seattle,

1352
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 2: I was really I was a teacher in tenth grades

1353
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 2: teaching skiing, and and so I dropped out of college

1354
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 2: and I said, well, I'm going to work in Seattle

1355
01:19:58,600 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 2: for a little bit, figure out what the hell I'm

1356
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:01,599
Speaker 2: going to do. But then I said, I'm going to Sunvalley,

1357
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 2: going to Ketcham. So a couple, me and my friends

1358
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 2: go to Kitcham. I immediately get a job running Trail Creek,

1359
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 2: which was Hemingway's ex fishing cabin. Okay, so I'm running that.

1360
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: I'm young, you know, and they let me work nights

1361
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 2: so I can skiet during day.

1362
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1363
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 2: I was one of these setups, you know. So I

1364
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: loved Ketcham.

1365
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 1: And what year are we in?

1366
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: Eighty eighty one, I think? And I loved Ketcham, and

1367
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 2: I left Ketcham to move to Vale, Colorado. But I

1368
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 2: always knew at some point I was going.

1369
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: To wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this is you know

1370
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: you speak in my language. Why did you leave Sun

1371
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: Valley for Vale?

1372
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 2: Well, we were trying to think figure out a long

1373
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 2: term plan for Carl, meaning my dad and I am home,

1374
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 2: you know, and my dad knew. My dad knew the

1375
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 2: president of United air Lines. At that time, United Airlines

1376
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 2: owned Weston Hotels and they were opening up brand new

1377
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 2: Weston Hotel there. And why doesn't Carl become head of

1378
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 2: food and beverage down in Vale Because he loves the

1379
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 2: ski and he loves the mountains. They gave me that job.

1380
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 2: I moved down there after two and a half three

1381
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 2: years and Sun I moved down there and did that

1382
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 2: for two years. But once again, I worked at nights

1383
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 2: pretty much, so I skied every day.

1384
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. How did you

1385
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: end up in Sun Valley? Now?

1386
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 2: Oh, like I said, I was drempt of owning a

1387
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 2: house there, and then h COVID hit and really before

1388
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 2: everyone started moving out of La I went up there

1389
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 2: on a vacation with my wife. Okay, and it's a

1390
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 2: good place to get away, open air, it'll be cool.

1391
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 2: So Rob my real estate I call him up. He

1392
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 2: wasn't my agent. Then this is the guy I meet,

1393
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 2: you know, to sell some to the house. I go,

1394
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 2: here's the deal. I only got two more days here.

1395
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 2: I'm going to look at every house, every house, and

1396
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 2: I guarantee you I'm going to buy one. So show

1397
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 2: me thirty houses in two days. He goes, Okay, dude, okay,

1398
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:13,839
Speaker 2: you showed me thirty houses. I bought one. We closed

1399
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 2: a month later, and then Dana and I went up there.

1400
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 2: It was August. Then Dana I went up there, said well,

1401
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 2: let's get out of la and go to the new

1402
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 2: house and open it up. And then we just never

1403
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 2: left because Dana fell in love with Sun Valley catch them.

1404
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 2: I always dreamt that that was going to be the plan.

1405
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 2: We all learned how to work remotely, all right, Well,

1406
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 2: when COVID's over, we'll figure out what we do. Well

1407
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 2: COVID's over, I still couldn't work remotely. My clients live

1408
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 2: around the world, not in La. Record companies are not

1409
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 2: that important to me, or I have other people to

1410
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 2: do it so it's easy. So I keep my house

1411
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 2: in LA in Nashville, as I said earlier, and I

1412
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 2: less two weeks ago in Nashville, freight days here in

1413
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 2: LA for three weeks, and I go back to Sun Valley,

1414
01:22:57,960 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 2: and then I'll come back four weeks later.

1415
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, in a year. How much you in Sun Valley, LA, Tennessee,

1416
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: just on the road. How does it break down?

1417
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 2: Well, if you factor in on the road too, you know,

1418
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 2: outside of LA, and add that in the outside of LA,

1419
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 2: in Nashville, in Sun Valley, figure doing it, probably sixty

1420
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:25,679
Speaker 2: seventy in Sun Valley?

1421
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 1: Okay? To what degree you know, there are other people

1422
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 1: in this business who live in Sun Valley. To what

1423
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: degree are you integrated? Are you just in your own world?

1424
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 2: Here's what it started, that I wanted to be in

1425
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 2: my own world, okay, and then people start talking that

1426
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: I'm there and they don't really know me, but they

1427
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 2: want to meet me, you know, that type of thing.

1428
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 2: And then you know, for the first three years we

1429
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:55,560
Speaker 2: were secluded, okay, and then your sun starts going to preschool,

1430
01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:00,799
Speaker 2: people start meeting you in restaurants, talking to you, and

1431
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 2: then they start calling on you, you know, and they have

1432
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 2: an idea you know or whatever, and so you get

1433
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,879
Speaker 2: involved in other things and all of a sudden Hebert

1434
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 2: a Fred you know, and you're walking down the street

1435
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 2: and you know people and it's kind of a personality

1436
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,719
Speaker 2: I have too that I'm not. I'm not a dark

1437
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: corner guy, you know, kind of kind of bright you know.

1438
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 2: And so like we did that, we did the ear

1439
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:31,639
Speaker 2: Skiar the World Cup final. We're in sun Valley this year,

1440
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 2: sunvill Catch them. These two people, the guy owns the Whiskey,

1441
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 2: which is one restaurant brand, and Jenny Dupree wanted to

1442
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 2: do a festival during that period. So they come to me,

1443
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 2: they say, will you help us? We want talent. You know,

1444
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 2: we don't know what we're doing in that side that respect,

1445
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:54,799
Speaker 2: they knew how to plant it. Okay, all right, fine,

1446
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: I'll help. And I put together all the entertainment and

1447
01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 2: the show and it was a big success to the show.

1448
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know financially, but the event was successful,

1449
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, first time festival successful. So then I met

1450
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 2: all these people around there and they saw what I

1451
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 2: was helping there, well, will you help us with this?

1452
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 2: So it kind of snowballs and you know, people, but

1453
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,640
Speaker 2: the people are awesome there, you know, and it's like

1454
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 2: it's really cool, you know, and it's really really unique

1455
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 2: gathering of people. Funny story off subject. Okay, when I

1456
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 2: first moved to La from Utah because I failed to Utah.

1457
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 1: Then La, you moved to go skiing in Utah? Yeah? Yeah,

1458
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: what'd you do in Utah? For how long?

1459
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 2: I've worked in Salt Lake at the Hotel Utah, which

1460
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 2: was which is a morning and they had a rooftop

1461
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 2: restaurant called the Rooftop and there I met Robert Redford

1462
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 2: eating or do O eating or whatever, you know, because

1463
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 2: it was the only real spiffy place. But it didn't

1464
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 2: open till like six. So I'd got a park city skiing,

1465
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 2: you know, or wherever sundays Alta, you know. And so

1466
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 2: but I wasn't there that long. I was only there

1467
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 2: for a season.

1468
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: Season.

1469
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 2: So I go to LA and I need a job.

1470
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 2: I moved to La not knowing anyone, not one person,

1471
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,559
Speaker 2: not one person on my own, and I'm staying at

1472
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 2: a Western hotel because I had free room nights. And

1473
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 2: I go in I apply for a job at the

1474
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 2: Ruth Chris Ruth's Chris Steakhouse in Beverly Hills, Okay, and

1475
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: the cat who owned it was a dude named Paul

1476
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 2: Fleming who was from Arizona via New Orleans, Lafayette. And

1477
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 2: they hired me. And that's where I met my first wife,

1478
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:45,640
Speaker 2: by the way, she ran the place. Okay, So so

1479
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 2: I worked there, get in the music business. Blah blah blah.

1480
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 2: Cut to Sun Valley, Okay, catch them. I'm talking to

1481
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 2: Brandon who owns the whiskey, and he goes, dude, do

1482
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 2: you know a dude named Paul Fleming? Yeah, well I

1483
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 2: was probably you up to him and he said you

1484
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 2: used to work for him, and go, yeah, I used

1485
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 2: to work, but well he lives up here too. Now

1486
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,480
Speaker 2: he goes, that dude thought you'd be dead by night,

1487
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 2: but you were the best dress host they ever had

1488
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 2: at a restaurant, okay, because I was always trying to

1489
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 2: pimp and get in the world, you know, of entertainment

1490
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:21,880
Speaker 2: of the world, you know. And so now he and

1491
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 2: I are in a restaurant, are going to be in

1492
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 2: a restaurant together in some value, one of the classic

1493
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 2: restaurants of all of Ketchum. And I don't know if

1494
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 2: you've been to Ketchum, but oh yeah, Okay, where did

1495
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: Hemingway eat his last meal?

1496
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1497
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 2: A restaurant called Michelle's. He ate every night in Michelle's.

1498
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 2: That kind of a frame thing. Okay, ate his meal,

1499
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 2: went home, shot solf of the head. So we're dealing

1500
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 2: with that, you know. So he's in business, but he's

1501
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 2: just blown away, you know. He goes, are you still

1502
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: did you ever? Mary Carey? Yeah? I did for two

1503
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:58,760
Speaker 2: months and he he was laughing, and it's like, it's

1504
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 2: so amazing how you meet people you know or other

1505
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:04,759
Speaker 2: people you know or are you know. It's such an

1506
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 2: eclectic group of people. And it's like any vacation place,

1507
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 2: whether it's the Outer Banks or get Cut or whatever. Okay,

1508
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:18,720
Speaker 2: there's the haves and have nots, Okay, which makes it

1509
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 2: difficult for the have nots because the prices go up,

1510
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 2: you know. But they're cool too, because all these servers

1511
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 2: I love, you know, and because I understand I can't.

1512
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:29,680
Speaker 2: I was a hustler, I get it, you know. But

1513
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 2: then there's really successful people, you know, and which you

1514
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 2: can learn from, you know. And so I have an

1515
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 2: office in downtown ketch them. That's the shelter of Rocky

1516
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:44,639
Speaker 2: Mountain Office, and so it's it's fun.

1517
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: Okay, what'd your parents do for a living?

1518
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,719
Speaker 2: I'm a I think we call it a corporate brat.

1519
01:28:58,840 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Okay.

1520
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 2: My dad, at the age of eighteen, was installing phone

1521
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 2: lines in southern Illinois, no, no, outside of Chicago as

1522
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 2: a job. He came from German immigrant family, okay. And

1523
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 2: he won some award as a student in high school.

1524
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 2: Then he met the president, and then he was working

1525
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 2: for AT and T or Illinois Bell or whatever it

1526
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 2: was called there, and they said, this kid's great. So

1527
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 2: he went from installing phones to being executive vice president

1528
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 2: AT and T, and in doing so, we lived Seattle,

1529
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 2: we lived in New Jersey.

1530
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait, executive vice president of AT and T

1531
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: the national corporation.

1532
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, before the divestiture. Before you know, this is not

1533
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 2: a Celtone.

1534
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 1: There were a lot of steffs between installing fold lines

1535
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 1: becoming executive view you know.

1536
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 2: But went he worked for Illinois Bell, Pacific, Northwest Bell,

1537
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 2: going up the chain.

1538
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 1: So what's his skill, because it's very hard to do,

1539
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 1: ye know.

1540
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 2: His skill was he was very intelligent, but he was

1541
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 2: a people person, and they kept on putting him to

1542
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 2: more school at and t Okay. So he went to

1543
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 2: University of Illinois, he went to special school at Wharton,

1544
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 2: he went to Dartmouth for another part of his learning,

1545
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,760
Speaker 2: and they just kept on grooming this guy. And in

1546
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 2: those days it was like that. It wasn't jumping companies.

1547
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 2: And so he only worked for one company and retired

1548
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 2: at sixty five his whole life. And so loyalty, you know,

1549
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:38,160
Speaker 2: and that. And plus mom was just mom, and we

1550
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 2: had five kids, and she was able to move us

1551
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 2: every two years and she took care of us and

1552
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 2: it was wonderful. So I had a great background.

1553
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:47,160
Speaker 1: So where are you in the hierarchy?

1554
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 2: I'm in the middle, and what are the other ones

1555
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 2: up to? Everyone's healthy and successful, you know. It's like

1556
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:00,479
Speaker 2: my brother James, the oldest. He is an attorney Seattle

1557
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 2: real estate, Transactional real Estate. My brother Todd lives down

1558
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:11,680
Speaker 2: here in Los Angeles and does events, produces events for

1559
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 2: like Nissan and stuff like that. But that's what he likes.

1560
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 2: It's his independent, doesn't have to work all the time

1561
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 2: and has done well. My sister lives outside of Anatchi, Washington,

1562
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:29,280
Speaker 2: the wine business, okay. And my other sister, Erica lives

1563
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 2: on cape Cod, where we spent most of our summers.

1564
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: She has a house on Cape Cod. We're in gape Cod,

1565
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: h Brewster. Okay, let me ask you this. There are

1566
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,560
Speaker 1: five kids in the family. Obviously, the older brother is

1567
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,679
Speaker 1: an attorney who graduated from college. Did the others graduate

1568
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:45,639
Speaker 1: in Podcasah, So you're the black sheep.

1569
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 2: I am the only one who didn't graduate.

1570
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: But are you, generally speaking, the black sheep in the family.

1571
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 2: No?

1572
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:55,639
Speaker 1: Okay? Why the music business or entertay? Maybe it wasn't music,

1573
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 1: maybe it was entertainment. What was it at first?

1574
01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 2: Well, for the two months or three months to college,

1575
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,759
Speaker 2: I was going to be an URTV major radio television major. Okay.

1576
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 2: I was a high school DJ, you know. It was

1577
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:13,599
Speaker 2: DJing in college for those three months. But I hated college.

1578
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,679
Speaker 2: And I was a music freak, okay, and not because

1579
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 2: I knew so much about it, but in high school,

1580
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:24,760
Speaker 2: every day after school we would find someone who had

1581
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:26,559
Speaker 2: a car. I would go down to a record store,

1582
01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 2: smoked up and thumb through the bins, you know, and

1583
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 2: then hopefully once a month you could afford to go

1584
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 2: to a shell and you'd stand in line at ten

1585
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 2: am when the gate would open and you'd buy your

1586
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 2: ticket then stand in line to the out door open.

1587
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 2: And we were vested in our artists. Back then, it

1588
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 2: was a totally different thing, and we didn't see our

1589
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:50,679
Speaker 2: artists unless you saw him live or on the back

1590
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 2: of an LP, front of LP. Okay. So that excitement

1591
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 2: of seeing Jesse, Colin Yell or you know whoever, you know,

1592
01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 2: it was just like Wow, that dude's cool, you know.

1593
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 2: And so he bought into the art. I really bought

1594
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 2: into it, and I loved music. So what happened was

1595
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,759
Speaker 2: I was working at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse and my brother

1596
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 2: was down here and he opened up the Hollywood Reporters.

1597
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 2: He came to my house and I'm on the roof

1598
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 2: top of my place. I was living in Beverly Hills,

1599
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 2: and he said, dude, look at this, this is you.

1600
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 2: This is you. You got to do this. And it

1601
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:29,839
Speaker 2: was a catlecall advertisement for the mail room at Glamory.

1602
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 2: So well, I'm getting married next week, just let's go

1603
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 2: do it. So I go over there do it. I

1604
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 2: was marrying carry Alice, whose father was herb Ellis, who

1605
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 2: was a great jazz guitarist herbalus So Jim Moury and

1606
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 2: Sandy both knew who Herb was and s yeah, I'm

1607
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 2: Mary carry Alice Herbs. Well you're hired, dude. Sure, And

1608
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 2: then I say to Jim. I go, Jim, there's one issue.

1609
01:33:57,240 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 2: He goes, what's the issue? I go, I can't stop

1610
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:02,080
Speaker 2: for four weeks because I'm getting married. Then I'm going

1611
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 2: to Saint Barts in Saint Martin's. Well you still have

1612
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 2: the job for me. They looked at me, they said, too,

1613
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 2: if you got some balls, I go, all right, we'll

1614
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 2: hold the job for you. So I came back and

1615
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:13,679
Speaker 2: started the job, and things just happened.

1616
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: Well, okay, you're working at Gallan Morey at the time.

1617
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: How many people are working there?

1618
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 2: I can count the offices cale pressman one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

1619
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 2: eight nine to about about about fourteen, And what was

1620
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:33,960
Speaker 2: your gig mail room? I would go buy every desk

1621
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:37,400
Speaker 2: and collect the mail. Back then there was faxes, print

1622
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 2: the foxes or copy the foxes. And then I would

1623
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,760
Speaker 2: get a call from Sandy's assistant saying, hey, you got

1624
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 2: to go down to Farah Fawcett's house and deliver the script.

1625
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:56,960
Speaker 2: No way, dude, really sweet sweet or Streisand's house or yeah,

1626
01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 2: there's a great there's a great story. And you know,

1627
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,680
Speaker 2: I got a got hired for the wedding, but I

1628
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 2: really started in November, okay, and Dolly Parton to a

1629
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 2: Christmas party at Sandy's house all the time, okay, and

1630
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:13,680
Speaker 2: they would import snow from the mountains all this, and

1631
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:17,679
Speaker 2: so Sandy goes, hey, can you come to the party.

1632
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, for sure, dude, I'm there. And some

1633
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 2: I probably was serving him a McDonald's hamburger, taking off

1634
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 2: the pickle, so something like that. Menial shit. Okay, So

1635
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 2: I dude, honey, I hadn't been divorce. Shit, honey, We're

1636
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 2: going to Dolly Parton's Christmas party. We go and the

1637
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 2: whole thing was no, he wanted me to work the

1638
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 2: party the front door, and it was so embarrassing to me.

1639
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 2: I was like, okay. But what happened was once everyone

1640
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:45,000
Speaker 2: was in, I went to a round tablet ten by

1641
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:49,719
Speaker 2: the pool and it was like quincy, all these people

1642
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 2: and I just pretended like I knew everyone wast hanging

1643
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 2: out with the like hey, how you doing. And so

1644
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 2: it's a great story because it was so humiliating, but

1645
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:57,680
Speaker 2: I made the best of.

1646
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 1: It, exactly why did you break up with the first life.

1647
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 2: I went out with Dice on the road, and I

1648
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:08,519
Speaker 2: came back and realized I got too married too early,

1649
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 2: and there's this whole new world opening up for me,

1650
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 2: and I don't think I can really focus on this

1651
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 2: when I've got this, and I really think I can

1652
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 2: do this, you know. So it was a selfish kind

1653
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 2: of move. But she didn't like the fact that I

1654
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 2: was getting into the music business because her dad was

1655
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 2: in the music business.

1656
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:28,559
Speaker 1: You know.

1657
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 2: She wanted me to be a restauranteur or whatever it is. Okay,

1658
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 2: So I think she was relieved and we parted great

1659
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 2: friends and she knows people in my world still, and.

1660
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's all good. And I thought, okay, so

1661
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 1: you're in the mail room. It's well known that's getting

1662
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,680
Speaker 1: your foot in the door. When do you actually do

1663
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: more than deliver mail? And within a month and you're

1664
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:52,680
Speaker 1: doing what.

1665
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 2: Barry Josephson was still there, and he he did an assistant.

1666
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 2: So he put me at his desk as his assistant,

1667
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:06,879
Speaker 2: which was a horrifying situation. A I couldn't type, okay,

1668
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 2: you know, so I'm taking messages, dialing the phones back

1669
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 2: in the old days, you know, rolling calls for him

1670
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 2: and uh, trying to deal with problems that I knew

1671
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 2: nothing about, Okay, because it happened to so quick, and

1672
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 2: so I was terrible. But what happened was all his

1673
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 2: clients loved me, so he had to deal with me, okay,

1674
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 2: and and he was a very hard boss, but they

1675
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:35,240
Speaker 2: all were back then. You know, it was a different

1676
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 2: world where they could abuse you, like, here's your Christmas bonus,

1677
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:41,760
Speaker 2: like one hundred and one dollar bills, Throw them on

1678
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:42,960
Speaker 2: the floor and I'll pick it up and get out

1679
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:47,439
Speaker 2: of you. That kind of attitude. Okay. There's that movie

1680
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 2: with Kevin Spacey and what's his name about a guy

1681
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 2: in the mail. Yeah, so that was really written by

1682
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 2: the guy who replaced me at that desk. Okay, who

1683
01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:00,720
Speaker 2: wrote that? So that was his experience. Okay, So it's

1684
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 2: like that. But then Barry leaves and there needed to

1685
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:12,000
Speaker 2: be someone to help with his clients that stayed Dice, okay,

1686
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 2: and so bye bye. Three months in that could be

1687
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:24,000
Speaker 2: off a month. Three months in, Dice pulls me out

1688
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 2: of that office, says here with me. Oh, this is

1689
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 2: gonna be fun. You know, it's a great I'm gonna

1690
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:32,080
Speaker 2: learn every aspect of the business over a year. You know,

1691
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:34,920
Speaker 2: I'll be involved in shooting Ford Fairley in the movie

1692
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,920
Speaker 2: for twentieth Century Fox. We have an ABC deal we're

1693
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:41,080
Speaker 2: going to get We're going out on tour. Dennis Arfa

1694
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:43,680
Speaker 2: great agent, is his agent, so I'm going to be

1695
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 2: around him. Rick Rubin's going to produce the record. So

1696
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,720
Speaker 2: I got all this experience in a short period of time.

1697
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 2: So I was fortunate.

1698
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:58,680
Speaker 1: Okay, Dice had this unbelievable vertical ascension. Then he theoretically

1699
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:04,040
Speaker 1: got being from him to then he was over. Then

1700
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,759
Speaker 1: he came back, you know, on TV for a while.

1701
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: What is misunderstood or what were the missteps by Dice?

1702
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 2: When I started with Dice were Here's Comedy Store, okay.

1703
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 2: And then we did the Beacon Theater for New Year's

1704
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 2: Eve for HBO okay, and that kicked it in. And

1705
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 2: I was still an assistant for that HBO show. And

1706
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 2: then it was January after that, and his his stick

1707
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 2: was so unique and so raw and so offensive and

1708
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 2: politically incorrect. Before there was politically incorrect, But there was

1709
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:49,840
Speaker 2: this change happening in the entertainment industry where it was

1710
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 2: becoming politically incorrect, especially because the people that were running

1711
01:39:54,560 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 2: the business, Sandy, Barry Diller, David Geffen, Okay, so he

1712
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 2: wouldn't stop himself from going farther and farther. And also

1713
01:40:07,240 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 2: what happened was we were doing what was it, the

1714
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 2: MTV thing or whatever, and Dick Clark was producing it,

1715
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 2: and I'm on the side of the stage. It goes,

1716
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 2: we're running short. We need you to stretch your material,

1717
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:24,800
Speaker 2: and we had to clear the material with television because

1718
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 2: he couldn't curse, okay, and it flipped Dice out, not anger,

1719
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:33,519
Speaker 2: just fear because he didn't know how to stretch. You know,

1720
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,000
Speaker 2: a comedian works on the tight ten or tight twenty,

1721
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:38,640
Speaker 2: whatever it is. So he had to ad lib and

1722
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 2: he went into protection mode and went into the dark

1723
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:45,960
Speaker 2: stuff and cursing and you know, lighting Cerrante on stage

1724
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 2: or whatever it was, and sudden the Redstone is dialing

1725
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:52,759
Speaker 2: in said get him off the stage. He's blackball bloomoom

1726
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 2: boom boom. And from that point on it just kept

1727
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:59,320
Speaker 2: on crippling down, you know. But it was an amazing

1728
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 2: running had and I got there. I had a lot

1729
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:04,360
Speaker 2: of fun with the guy. I mean, here's a guy

1730
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 2: that got really fortunate, stayed at it, believed in it,

1731
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:16,040
Speaker 2: and once again McDonald's. You know. Theory is people knew

1732
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:17,559
Speaker 2: what they were getting when they went to his show,

1733
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:19,760
Speaker 2: and they loved it, you know, and he stayed to

1734
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:27,639
Speaker 2: that and he was really good to me and his parents. Freddy,

1735
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:30,559
Speaker 2: it was it was awesome to me, and you know,

1736
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:33,200
Speaker 2: it was just such an amazing experience. And he was

1737
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 2: he was a good guy. He was basically a sober

1738
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 2: guy out of just not trying to be sober, but

1739
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:41,760
Speaker 2: he wasn't partying and he didn't do anything, you know,

1740
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 2: and so it was great. You know, it was a

1741
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:46,760
Speaker 2: great dealing with them. I had great footage of just

1742
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 2: us on a tour bus together or whatever. It just

1743
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:52,719
Speaker 2: was a moment and it was fantastic. It failed because

1744
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:55,639
Speaker 2: he was put in a situation that he couldn't handle

1745
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:57,840
Speaker 2: and that was the beginning of the end. That night

1746
01:41:57,920 --> 01:41:58,800
Speaker 2: was the beginning of the end.

1747
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:01,600
Speaker 1: So did with you and Dice? And what did you

1748
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 1: do next?

1749
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:04,760
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it depends on who you ask. How how

1750
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:11,719
Speaker 2: I look at it is is that I we found

1751
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 2: a comedian in Kansas City who did fairly well. Eddie Griffin,

1752
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:22,000
Speaker 2: Fast Eddie a bunch of Joel Silver movies. Stand up.

1753
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 2: He's a great funny guy. Okay, we find Eddie while

1754
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 2: we're on the road, Eddie. I'm managing Eddie. Now, Okay,

1755
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 2: Eddie starts kind of happening. Dice is kind of you know,

1756
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:39,360
Speaker 2: slowing down. And he didn't like the fact that I

1757
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:46,080
Speaker 2: managed Eddie, and I said, well, fine, you know, love you, Dice.

1758
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:50,479
Speaker 2: I'm ag Eddie. And that was, you know, before I

1759
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:52,759
Speaker 2: got into music business. Really I was in the comedy world.

1760
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:57,760
Speaker 2: So that happened. Then the Eddie thing didn't work out,

1761
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 2: even though like he lived in my office, you know,

1762
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:03,240
Speaker 2: and he was just starving, you know, and I'd feed

1763
01:43:03,320 --> 01:43:05,960
Speaker 2: him and get his teeth work done or whatever, you know.

1764
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 2: And that didn't work out. And so I was looking

1765
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 2: for my next entertainment thing and it was a It

1766
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:14,760
Speaker 2: was with a guy named Matt Robinson.

1767
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:16,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Matt.

1768
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 2: He was a DJ and we had he had clubs,

1769
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 2: portable clubs, you know, move around clubs, peace posse and

1770
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 2: all these things back in the early nineties. And he

1771
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 2: needed like a business partner kind of as he was unorganized.

1772
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:32,920
Speaker 2: And so he and I were working and we had

1773
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:37,000
Speaker 2: a club every Friday night on Pico at the Chicken Shack,

1774
01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:39,960
Speaker 2: I think it was called. And a lot of celebrities

1775
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:42,320
Speaker 2: were coming to our club. We had great DJs and

1776
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 2: it was kind of dance hall, hip hop, reggae kind

1777
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 2: of club. It was cool back then. Chris Blackwell would

1778
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:52,200
Speaker 2: come into the club. So Blackwell gave us our own

1779
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:57,400
Speaker 2: record label, Peace Polsey Records, and there's an We signed Ikamause,

1780
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:01,840
Speaker 2: who was a dance hall awesome guy, crazy dude. And

1781
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 2: I did that for like a year and a half,

1782
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 2: two years, but the label never worked and I was

1783
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:11,479
Speaker 2: getting bored and restless, and that's kind of you know,

1784
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:17,640
Speaker 2: around the time I met Mick and and I was

1785
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:21,439
Speaker 2: working with some other another gal. We were partners as

1786
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 2: managers type of thing trying to make and she had

1787
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:28,479
Speaker 2: Delight and I was doing some stuff for the Fix,

1788
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:31,479
Speaker 2: and then it was Fleetwood and then it just kept

1789
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 2: on going, the Cult, House of Pain Everthelass, Boston White Take,

1790
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, Tommy Zzy, It just kept on going.

1791
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: So how'd you get involved with the Sanctuary guys?

1792
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:51,080
Speaker 2: Merk saw that I was making money, you know money,

1793
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:55,479
Speaker 2: and I had very strong roster for a manager coming

1794
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:00,160
Speaker 2: into that place, okay, and he knew I I had

1795
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:03,519
Speaker 2: a big tour coming up with so he wanted to

1796
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:08,800
Speaker 2: buy into that revenue. So he bought in and then

1797
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 2: made me co president with Peter Asher right down when

1798
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 2: he bought in, and then Merk I had to leave, okay,

1799
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:23,360
Speaker 2: and they made me seeeo or champed to see you

1800
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:26,440
Speaker 2: of Sanctuary and it was really.

1801
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 1: Wait wait, just to be clear, when you start, is

1802
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,240
Speaker 1: already owned by Universal? No?

1803
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:35,000
Speaker 2: No, I started when it was dealing.

1804
01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:37,600
Speaker 1: But it was already public when you were Yes, it

1805
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 1: was public.

1806
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:38,759
Speaker 2: Okay.

1807
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:42,719
Speaker 1: How long did you work there before it was sold

1808
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:43,440
Speaker 1: to Universal?

1809
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:44,200
Speaker 2: Five years?

1810
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:47,599
Speaker 1: So tell us about Merk.

1811
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:54,439
Speaker 2: Did you read his new Yeah? I did, Okay, Yeah,

1812
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,960
Speaker 2: he and I are two totally two different people, Okay,

1813
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 2: as far as our philosophies, the way we operate, he said, dude,

1814
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 2: that will always find a way to land on his feet.

1815
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:15,840
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with how he ran Sanctuary, and

1816
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure if I ever did a

1817
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:19,480
Speaker 2: company it was polar opposite of Sanctuary.

1818
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 1: Seriously, just to be clear, how was it run?

1819
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:29,760
Speaker 2: He made deals based on the next six months year

1820
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:35,560
Speaker 2: with managers. Okay, not how great that manager is and

1821
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:38,720
Speaker 2: this isn't my opinion. He has done extremely well, so

1822
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 2: I could be totally off. But he was not ever

1823
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 2: worried about a year from now. It was really like

1824
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 2: I said that quarter or that half year, okay. And

1825
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:53,879
Speaker 2: my philosophy, as I said earlier on, was long term,

1826
01:46:53,920 --> 01:47:00,080
Speaker 2: long term. We can sustain long term. So that and

1827
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 2: I questioned the other managers there, and I know a

1828
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 2: lot of them and I like them, but you know,

1829
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:14,200
Speaker 2: it's like huh, and and we accounted to things differently, okay.

1830
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:20,040
Speaker 2: And so when he moved on the board, brought me

1831
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:23,599
Speaker 2: to London and asked me if i'd help them get

1832
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,240
Speaker 2: it to a point where we could have someone buy

1833
01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:29,679
Speaker 2: it off the street. Okay, and I did. But murk

1834
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:33,719
Speaker 2: Is is a unique person. I think he knows music.

1835
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 2: He's a music fan for sure.

1836
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 1: That's sure.

1837
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:42,040
Speaker 2: He knows it, he cares about it. But there's other

1838
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:45,760
Speaker 2: influences in the way he conducts his business. Okay, that's

1839
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 2: in his own head.

1840
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. What's different now that it's sold

1841
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:54,840
Speaker 1: to Universal? What's different about working a Universal? Why do

1842
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:55,599
Speaker 1: you have to get out?

1843
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:08,600
Speaker 2: I don't think at that point Labels Lucian understood what

1844
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 2: I did, okay, and really understood the music business. I

1845
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:17,600
Speaker 2: think they were more a business once again of the immediate.

1846
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 2: And I don't think Lucien ever understood why I would

1847
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:25,160
Speaker 2: manage is Easy or Fleewood Mac No No, find me

1848
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:28,759
Speaker 2: a Gaga, Find me a Gaga. Okay, forget the old mans,

1849
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 2: but the old mans are making me a lot every year,

1850
01:48:35,160 --> 01:48:39,439
Speaker 2: like more than looking for Gaga. That company won't sustain itself,

1851
01:48:39,479 --> 01:48:41,200
Speaker 2: and then I'm fired. I don't want to do that,

1852
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 2: you know. And it wasn't hard conversation. It was just

1853
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:48,920
Speaker 2: a different philosophical way of doing things. So I wanted

1854
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 2: out and I got out thanks to help from Herring,

1855
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,680
Speaker 2: you know. And I just kind of did my own

1856
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:00,599
Speaker 2: thing with my bands that have been with me ever.

1857
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:06,360
Speaker 2: You know, it's like until Heartwick, you know, just knocked

1858
01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 2: on my door.

1859
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 1: Okay, let's jump to today. You're making a deal with

1860
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: the label. You know, we went through the old school.

1861
01:49:23,240 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 1: We went through twenty first century, three sixty deals. Now

1862
01:49:27,080 --> 01:49:32,040
Speaker 1: there's leverage because you might have a TikTok success. How

1863
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:34,160
Speaker 1: have you found the deals changed? And what are the

1864
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:36,520
Speaker 1: deals today?

1865
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:43,400
Speaker 2: Deals are one don't come with the same advance okay,

1866
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 2: a lesser marketing commitment, okay, a lesser commitment to the

1867
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:54,880
Speaker 2: individual the artist, and you're really hoping you throw something

1868
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:58,160
Speaker 2: against the wall and it works, you know, but that

1869
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:01,719
Speaker 2: doesn't change how we think. But that's what the label thinks. Okay.

1870
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 1: And you have to cough up any rights beyond just

1871
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: the raw recordings, and you can you get those back?

1872
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:10,240
Speaker 1: Can you have re record? What are your deals like

1873
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:11,799
Speaker 1: with all this deal.

1874
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:14,639
Speaker 2: The deals now are more licensing deals for a term,

1875
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:19,360
Speaker 2: a ten year term. Then everything reverts back to you. Okay,

1876
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:23,120
Speaker 2: and the re record rights followed that term usually.

1877
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:26,320
Speaker 1: Okay, let me go back a step. You talk about, well,

1878
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 1: I went to NBC. I'm doing this special. You're a

1879
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:34,480
Speaker 1: guy who works in restaurants. You say you're a hustler.

1880
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:37,160
Speaker 1: It's not like you grew up in the business and

1881
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:40,040
Speaker 1: your you know, your father's friends came to the house,

1882
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:43,760
Speaker 1: et cetera. No, how did you make these relationships and

1883
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:45,920
Speaker 1: how did you make these deals? And how do you

1884
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 1: do it today?

1885
01:50:48,120 --> 01:50:54,760
Speaker 2: I learned quickly, okay. But how I was able to

1886
01:50:54,800 --> 01:51:01,479
Speaker 2: function in that world? You know? Early on, when I

1887
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:05,760
Speaker 2: was in the restaurant business in La I would go

1888
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:09,479
Speaker 2: to the right places, and I happened to meet certain

1889
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:14,639
Speaker 2: people that were artists okay, that liked me and tagged

1890
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:18,640
Speaker 2: me along, okay, And whether it was hanging out Roxbury

1891
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:24,120
Speaker 2: if you remember Roxbury, you know, or whatever club, China Club,

1892
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:26,479
Speaker 2: whatever you know, and I was always there with the

1893
01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:28,720
Speaker 2: right people. And they grew and I grew and a

1894
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:34,080
Speaker 2: group and I I look at myself. This is a

1895
01:51:34,160 --> 01:51:38,240
Speaker 2: dis on myself. Okay. When I was a skier, my

1896
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:42,240
Speaker 2: name was in Carl. I was called c W, which

1897
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:45,200
Speaker 2: is my initials. My father called me that, my mother,

1898
01:51:45,320 --> 01:51:47,640
Speaker 2: every friend I still have back then calls me that.

1899
01:51:48,479 --> 01:51:51,200
Speaker 2: When I came to La, basically I changed to Carl,

1900
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:54,240
Speaker 2: and I put on an act just to be able

1901
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 2: to fit in. But I learned that act by moving

1902
01:51:57,280 --> 01:51:59,920
Speaker 2: around with my father, parents and family. Because when you

1903
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:03,519
Speaker 2: move from Seattle to Jersey, totally different. You're not You're

1904
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:08,000
Speaker 2: not wearing swabies, You're wearing Levi's and ducksiders okay, new wardrobe,

1905
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:12,080
Speaker 2: you know. So so I know I acted this role,

1906
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 2: that I knew what I was doing, and that that

1907
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:18,680
Speaker 2: that I fit in with this culture, this world. And

1908
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:21,800
Speaker 2: in doing so, you open your ears and you hear

1909
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:23,960
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, and you're willing to learn, and

1910
01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:25,920
Speaker 2: you never pretend like you know everything, but you do

1911
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:27,960
Speaker 2: live in that world. And it just kind of worked

1912
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:28,320
Speaker 2: that way.

1913
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:33,519
Speaker 1: Okay, let's assume your brainstorming in the office, we're virtually however,

1914
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:35,760
Speaker 1: you do it and you go, you know, we need

1915
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 1: a TV special on this, or we need a movie.

1916
01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:43,120
Speaker 1: You have the concept. Do you then work backward and say,

1917
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:45,559
Speaker 1: you know, I know so and so. Who knows so

1918
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:49,120
Speaker 1: and so will put me together? Where do you say? Oh,

1919
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:54,519
Speaker 1: that's Netflix, that's Hulu, that's NBC, this is the person

1920
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 1: who runs it. Let me cold call them.

1921
01:52:57,600 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 2: Well, it can work like that, and it's also can

1922
01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:05,200
Speaker 2: work that. If it's today not when I was younger,

1923
01:53:05,360 --> 01:53:09,320
Speaker 2: it's different. So I'll call CI or William Morris and

1924
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 2: this is my idea, put together ten meetings for me.

1925
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:16,519
Speaker 2: Then I'll go take the meetings. Okay. If it's you know,

1926
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:20,120
Speaker 2: if it was like Rockstar Super and Ova with Mark

1927
01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:24,360
Speaker 2: Burnett at CBS produced, it came up with it with Mark.

1928
01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:27,240
Speaker 2: It was not just called Mark, you know, and talk

1929
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:29,160
Speaker 2: to Mark about it, you know, because I'd met him

1930
01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:32,720
Speaker 2: or whatever it was. You know, it all depends, you know,

1931
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:35,400
Speaker 2: where we're going with the project, what type of project

1932
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:39,240
Speaker 2: it is, and where it fits with the NBC show

1933
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:44,759
Speaker 2: it was. I hired a showrunner who handled them setting

1934
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:46,959
Speaker 2: up the meetings, and I would show to the meetings

1935
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 2: because I knew how to sell what my view was,

1936
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 2: and that's how it was done. I would show up

1937
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:54,880
Speaker 2: and I'd be there, and I'd come up and create it.

1938
01:53:54,960 --> 01:54:00,720
Speaker 2: You know, you know, wine or liquor spirits. I know

1939
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,799
Speaker 2: people in that world, you know, So I'll make the call.

1940
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 2: It all depends on what. But yeah, let me help

1941
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:11,120
Speaker 2: you get there. We'll get you there, you know. Okay,

1942
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 2: one way or another, I'll get you there.

1943
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 1: Live Business today there are two behemoths. Live Nation is

1944
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:25,280
Speaker 1: very much in favor of making tour deals, being on

1945
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:28,800
Speaker 1: the other side of the fence. What's your philosophy.

1946
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,400
Speaker 2: I think it depends on the act, and I think

1947
01:54:31,439 --> 01:54:34,520
Speaker 2: it depends on the timing of when you're going out

1948
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:38,839
Speaker 2: and also the history you have. So in other words,

1949
01:54:39,480 --> 01:54:44,040
Speaker 2: Live Nation has been very good to me with a

1950
01:54:44,040 --> 01:54:47,320
Speaker 2: lot of my acts, but not all my acts. Two deals, okay,

1951
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:51,960
Speaker 2: one usually Fleevo Mac we deal right, but you know

1952
01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 2: there's deals that we don't take money. We just want

1953
01:54:55,760 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 2: everything right. Everything, okay, and it works because you know,

1954
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:02,600
Speaker 2: you sell tickets. Okay, then with as easy. There's some

1955
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:06,640
Speaker 2: ag shows, there's some Like Nation shows, there's some independent shows,

1956
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:10,280
Speaker 2: and I won't do a whole deal okay, crowded house,

1957
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:14,840
Speaker 2: same thing, you know. And that's Neil's mind too. He

1958
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:18,760
Speaker 2: doesn't want to just be owned by Live Nation. You know,

1959
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 2: we like Live Nation, but we're not on and we'll

1960
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:23,120
Speaker 2: do this and that and that and this with these

1961
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:27,920
Speaker 2: people and then the younger acts. We're not really making

1962
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 2: deals with one agency. I mean, I know those deals

1963
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 2: and I've seen them, and I see where they don't

1964
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,320
Speaker 2: work for the artists. You know, there's a there's a

1965
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:38,640
Speaker 2: big size band that did one, and those deals are

1966
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:41,920
Speaker 2: different thought the FLEETODMAC deals. I mean it's like, okay,

1967
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:45,440
Speaker 2: we get the next hundred shows or the same amount

1968
01:55:45,480 --> 01:55:47,960
Speaker 2: of time, and we'll figure out when they are, where

1969
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 2: they are. All that kind of shit. And it takes

1970
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,400
Speaker 2: these bands years to recoup. But what happened was their

1971
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 2: business skyrocket. But you're living to that old guarantee. Not

1972
01:55:56,760 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 2: a good deal.

1973
01:55:57,760 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: You know. Since the insolidation and professionalization of the live business,

1974
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:08,200
Speaker 1: how does that work to the advantage your disadvantages of

1975
01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:09,280
Speaker 1: the acts.

1976
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 2: M hmm. I think there's there's, like you said, there's

1977
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:20,600
Speaker 2: advantages and disadvantage.

1978
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:20,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1979
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:25,280
Speaker 2: It's like but with you know, Ticketmaster all that kind

1980
01:56:25,280 --> 01:56:27,960
Speaker 2: of stuff, you know, and the way life nation is

1981
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:32,320
Speaker 2: with that kind of thing, it's potentially taking money off

1982
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 2: the table for the band. It's really taking money away

1983
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:41,000
Speaker 2: from the van, you know. And but then again it's

1984
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:44,080
Speaker 2: how you structure those deals, you know. It's it's you

1985
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:46,280
Speaker 2: need to can't do that, you can't do this, you know,

1986
01:56:46,280 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 2: and just negotiate it. But it's it's it's certainly also hurt.

1987
01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 2: What I think is the marketing of of the tours

1988
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:59,200
Speaker 2: of the bands. So you go up on sale, you

1989
01:56:59,200 --> 01:57:02,920
Speaker 2: have a breakout, and then it's gone, okay, So you

1990
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 2: shall generate all your revenue over a week period of time,

1991
01:57:07,200 --> 01:57:10,760
Speaker 2: and the show's not for six months. Nothing happens after that,

1992
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:14,160
Speaker 2: even when you're going in market, unless you're stiffing, then

1993
01:57:14,200 --> 01:57:16,560
Speaker 2: they'll put a little more money into it. Where when

1994
01:57:17,040 --> 01:57:21,640
Speaker 2: Don Law or Golden Voice or whatever, back in the

1995
01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:25,040
Speaker 2: old days, they would be firing stickering and there was

1996
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:28,440
Speaker 2: really a presence of that band coming, which helps record sales,

1997
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:33,000
Speaker 2: which helps everything else that's not there anymore. It's like void.

1998
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:38,840
Speaker 2: I go to a Fleetwood mac shown Chicago sold out

1999
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 2: three in a row. But if you didn't buy a ticket,

2000
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:45,240
Speaker 2: you don't even know if they're there. Where before even

2001
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 2: if you didn't go, you would see it and there

2002
01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 2: was present. Okay. So that's a lot of the problem

2003
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:55,400
Speaker 2: of the monumentality of how it is. But it's radio

2004
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:58,080
Speaker 2: is less important, so they don't win the radio. You know,

2005
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 2: the Internet that's of the moment. So is it a

2006
01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:07,680
Speaker 2: product of the way media has become or is it

2007
01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:13,040
Speaker 2: a product of way a major kind oft promoter saves money?

2008
01:58:13,080 --> 01:58:13,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

2009
01:58:14,480 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it a Can you talk about Fleewood

2010
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:19,600
Speaker 1: Max an instant sellout? Let's use zz top? Did you

2011
01:58:19,720 --> 01:58:23,560
Speaker 1: bring them up? Most of the gigs are non instant sellouts,

2012
01:58:23,960 --> 01:58:26,879
Speaker 1: So how do you ultimately fill the building?

2013
01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:35,280
Speaker 2: We? Yeah, with zz we have an insane database, okay,

2014
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:38,560
Speaker 2: that we deal with. We don't give it to someone

2015
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:44,000
Speaker 2: and we're active in the database with our fans and

2016
01:58:44,040 --> 01:58:46,920
Speaker 2: they're aware of it. We're not like blindsiding them, you know.

2017
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:54,120
Speaker 2: And that's a band that can still organically sell out

2018
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:57,400
Speaker 2: over time for some reason. Okay, are we doing that

2019
01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:01,120
Speaker 2: much different than the other band now, but it works.

2020
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:04,760
Speaker 2: And Zzi is an interesting thing because here's a band

2021
01:59:04,760 --> 01:59:08,160
Speaker 2: that does under shows here every year for seventeen years.

2022
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:11,440
Speaker 2: They've done it with me and they want it. It's

2023
01:59:11,480 --> 01:59:14,360
Speaker 2: not manager saying to it I pull back, pull back

2024
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:17,360
Speaker 2: you no, no, no gigsters. You know, we're fucking gigsters.

2025
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:19,839
Speaker 2: All right, let's do it. We got to be creative,

2026
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:21,200
Speaker 2: we got to go into different markets.

2027
01:59:21,240 --> 01:59:21,600
Speaker 1: Whatever.

2028
01:59:21,720 --> 01:59:26,520
Speaker 2: But it's it almost becomes to a ZZ fan like

2029
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:30,720
Speaker 2: an annual thing. Okay, it's annual, you know, and those

2030
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:37,320
Speaker 2: fans are so loyal to that band, and yeah, and

2031
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:41,440
Speaker 2: we still you know, when I took Zzy on, I

2032
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:44,680
Speaker 2: didn't really understand z Easytop, not musically, I mean the

2033
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:47,920
Speaker 2: business I didn't understand. So I went to Houston to

2034
01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:49,720
Speaker 2: the Houston Rodeo where they were playing in front of

2035
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:53,000
Speaker 2: sixty five thousand people, and I decided just to walk

2036
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:55,520
Speaker 2: the parking lot, you know, check out the vibe. And

2037
01:59:57,040 --> 01:59:59,400
Speaker 2: because I was so focused on the coasts, you know,

2038
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:07,680
Speaker 2: and so I see a grandmother, daughter, husband, their kids,

2039
02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:10,680
Speaker 2: like five of them walking into the venue, all ages,

2040
02:00:11,120 --> 02:00:14,320
Speaker 2: and they're all got ZZ shirts, Zazy cooozies these the acts,

2041
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,760
Speaker 2: thesey everything. I go, dude, these are loyal fans. This

2042
02:00:19,200 --> 02:00:21,560
Speaker 2: is a business that I have not been in and

2043
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:22,840
Speaker 2: I want to be a part of it. And it's

2044
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:26,600
Speaker 2: been successful. But before I got involved, the manager prior

2045
02:00:27,080 --> 02:00:31,320
Speaker 2: didn't want them doing television, didn't want them doing articles,

2046
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:34,000
Speaker 2: didn't want them to be exposed at all, and hit

2047
02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:37,360
Speaker 2: them because he thought, well, and he was right back

2048
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:40,600
Speaker 2: in the old days, it's a mystery. You don't give

2049
02:00:40,600 --> 02:00:42,600
Speaker 2: it all the way, you know whatever. But in the

2050
02:00:42,640 --> 02:00:47,040
Speaker 2: new world of post MTV and social media and all

2051
02:00:47,080 --> 02:00:50,480
Speaker 2: this stuff. So I did a documentary that did really

2052
02:00:50,520 --> 02:00:53,840
Speaker 2: well on Netflix with them. I got them on television,

2053
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 2: I got them doing you know, big event shows, you know.

2054
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:00,960
Speaker 2: And so I took him out out of the fair

2055
02:01:01,080 --> 02:01:04,120
Speaker 2: business and brought them back into the hard ticket business

2056
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:09,160
Speaker 2: that was Michael and I had some great agents that

2057
02:01:09,280 --> 02:01:12,840
Speaker 2: worked with me, that understood my vision, you know, and

2058
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:18,040
Speaker 2: it worked out. And now you know, we're bigger in

2059
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:21,880
Speaker 2: Europe than we are in the United States. And when

2060
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:23,880
Speaker 2: I started with them, they hadn't been to Europe for

2061
02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:27,240
Speaker 2: ten years or something, you know, But we worked them

2062
02:01:27,240 --> 02:01:30,280
Speaker 2: in Europe and then they became Americana cheeky you know

2063
02:01:30,360 --> 02:01:34,320
Speaker 2: type thing over the real deal, the real deal. We

2064
02:01:34,360 --> 02:01:38,000
Speaker 2: went to Australia this year, sold everything out, everything. It

2065
02:01:38,080 --> 02:01:41,080
Speaker 2: was crazy doing eighteen bucks ahead and T shirts, all

2066
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 2: this stuff on fire, you know. So we built them

2067
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 2: in other markets and we made it an international act

2068
02:01:48,880 --> 02:01:52,760
Speaker 2: and I Chase. I spent a lot of time with

2069
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 2: Billy even about microphones you know or whatever, you know,

2070
02:01:56,960 --> 02:02:01,040
Speaker 2: and stage dressings and sets and all this kind of shit.

2071
02:02:01,120 --> 02:02:04,240
Speaker 2: And Billy's a really smart guy and a very very

2072
02:02:04,600 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 2: spot on you know, but he was He was great,

2073
02:02:10,880 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 2: you know, he listened, he talked, we'd riff and we

2074
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:16,560
Speaker 2: became close, you know, like all my clients and I'll

2075
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:18,720
Speaker 2: have ten bad ideas and if there's one good one

2076
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 2: in there, we're winning or we're winning.

2077
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:26,920
Speaker 1: So okay, zz top one hundred dates a year actually

2078
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:32,440
Speaker 1: don't represent sticks out every year, deaf leppards seemingly.

2079
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:33,680
Speaker 2: Everything ARD's amazing.

2080
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:39,360
Speaker 1: Okay. In the old days they say let it lie fallow, Hey,

2081
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:41,960
Speaker 1: what's your philosophy on that? And b is this just

2082
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:43,320
Speaker 1: going to go on forever?

2083
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:49,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the general philosophy is take those breaks,

2084
02:02:49,360 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 2: you know, because it refuels the T shirt business the

2085
02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:56,400
Speaker 2: ticket business all that. Certain bands can get away with it.

2086
02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:58,680
Speaker 2: I don't think many bands can do what sticks does

2087
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:01,800
Speaker 2: c Z. Cheap Trick another one of my bands, you know,

2088
02:03:01,960 --> 02:03:07,240
Speaker 2: Cheap Trick. We took on Cheap Trick just four months ago.

2089
02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 2: I had them out with Easy. This band can be

2090
02:03:11,640 --> 02:03:15,720
Speaker 2: something still. This is an interesting band, you know, but

2091
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:18,760
Speaker 2: it's kind of like they're working too much. They're going

2092
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:20,960
Speaker 2: into the wrong rooms, all that kind of stuff. So

2093
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:23,320
Speaker 2: I met the band, they decided to go with us,

2094
02:03:23,960 --> 02:03:26,520
Speaker 2: put two of my guys on it, and we're doing well.

2095
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:30,480
Speaker 2: And it's the same idea as Easy. They you had

2096
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,440
Speaker 2: to weed the garden. You know, it's a dirty garden.

2097
02:03:32,480 --> 02:03:34,320
Speaker 2: Let's make it a clean garden. You know. That's weed

2098
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:36,240
Speaker 2: it to make it pretty, you know, And how do

2099
02:03:36,280 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 2: you do that will put them in the right place.

2100
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:40,800
Speaker 1: So let's talk about a band like Jeep Trick, well

2101
02:03:40,840 --> 02:03:44,400
Speaker 1: known rock and roll Hall of Fame members. Is there

2102
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:49,600
Speaker 1: any upside you're talking about Zezy Top business increased in Europe,

2103
02:03:49,640 --> 02:03:53,200
Speaker 1: but they haven't been there. Is it more about maintaining

2104
02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:56,840
Speaker 1: the business of these acts or is there anything that

2105
02:03:56,920 --> 02:03:57,760
Speaker 1: could make it grow.

2106
02:03:58,040 --> 02:04:00,960
Speaker 2: There's plenty of things that potent could make it grow.

2107
02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:04,879
Speaker 2: Maintaining is not what our goal is when we get involved,

2108
02:04:05,440 --> 02:04:12,000
Speaker 2: you know, because once again, I was never a big

2109
02:04:12,080 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 2: cheap trick fan, Okay, but I knew they could play.

2110
02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:18,960
Speaker 2: I think they still look good and they wrote some

2111
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:22,360
Speaker 2: great fucking songs. Okay. So how do we expose them

2112
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:26,120
Speaker 2: to different audience to not lose audience but gather more

2113
02:04:26,120 --> 02:04:29,160
Speaker 2: people that weren't ticket buyers, record buyers, whatever it is.

2114
02:04:29,520 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 2: How do we do that by putting them in places

2115
02:04:32,120 --> 02:04:35,600
Speaker 2: they haven't been or giving them looks they've never had.

2116
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:38,600
Speaker 1: Just give me an example of both of those places

2117
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 1: they haven't been there.

2118
02:04:39,520 --> 02:04:41,000
Speaker 2: We'll go out and open up for a band that

2119
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:44,040
Speaker 2: you haven't opened up for ten million times, okay, go

2120
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:49,240
Speaker 2: out with fucking Rod Stewart okay, or get them on

2121
02:04:49,280 --> 02:04:51,840
Speaker 2: a late night television show, even though that doesn't move

2122
02:04:51,920 --> 02:04:55,160
Speaker 2: the needle of sales, Okay, it doesn't, but it does

2123
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:59,880
Speaker 2: impact the image and the perception of that band. Okay.

2124
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:03,680
Speaker 2: Do things like that, you know, do a real documentary

2125
02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:07,040
Speaker 2: about the band in Rufford, Illinois, you know, or whatever.

2126
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:11,240
Speaker 2: It's like, it's it's educating people because I can play

2127
02:05:11,280 --> 02:05:16,880
Speaker 2: a cheap trick song surrender, Okay to my wife or

2128
02:05:16,920 --> 02:05:18,960
Speaker 2: to a friend and they, oh, I know that song,

2129
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:22,480
Speaker 2: Well who does that song? I don't know. So it's

2130
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 2: educating people too on who wrote those songs and who's

2131
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:30,200
Speaker 2: behind those songs. And that is through proper articles, documentaries,

2132
02:05:30,680 --> 02:05:32,000
Speaker 2: you know, educational pieces.

2133
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:38,040
Speaker 1: And what's your philosophy on soft ticket sales soft ticket shows?

2134
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:44,800
Speaker 2: Well, dependents if it's if it's sometimes they're needy because

2135
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:49,480
Speaker 2: it's part of the routing. Okay ah to be a

2136
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:52,960
Speaker 2: country act that only does soft tickets, which is not

2137
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:56,080
Speaker 2: unique in that business. You know, I think it does

2138
02:05:56,160 --> 02:05:59,760
Speaker 2: nothing for the building of the growth of the band,

2139
02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:02,920
Speaker 2: the loyalty to the band, all those things. If I

2140
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 2: know I can see such and such act at a

2141
02:06:06,240 --> 02:06:09,560
Speaker 2: radio show every year, welly, I'm ever going to buy

2142
02:06:09,600 --> 02:06:11,960
Speaker 2: a ticket. So how does that band make money in touring?

2143
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:12,360
Speaker 1: They don't.

2144
02:06:13,680 --> 02:06:17,480
Speaker 2: Plus they're there for twenty other bands, and so what's

2145
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:23,400
Speaker 2: the point. You know, festivals that are heart ticket festivals,

2146
02:06:23,720 --> 02:06:29,320
Speaker 2: you know, like a bottle Rock or a Lolla plusa whatever.

2147
02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:33,880
Speaker 2: I think are great, but not too much of it.

2148
02:06:34,040 --> 02:06:34,240
Speaker 1: You know.

2149
02:06:34,280 --> 02:06:40,080
Speaker 2: I think when we played and Zeezi played Stagecoach or Creed.

2150
02:06:40,080 --> 02:06:43,000
Speaker 2: This last year played stage Coach, it was a fantastic

2151
02:06:43,080 --> 02:06:45,360
Speaker 2: moment because it was playing in front of people that

2152
02:06:45,440 --> 02:06:48,120
Speaker 2: never would have bought a ticket, and that brings even

2153
02:06:48,160 --> 02:06:51,520
Speaker 2: if you got half a percent of those people, that's

2154
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:55,040
Speaker 2: growing business. Okay, and word of mouth. Boy, I saw

2155
02:06:55,040 --> 02:06:57,720
Speaker 2: a Creed. I was in the gym and Sun Valley

2156
02:06:58,080 --> 02:07:00,760
Speaker 2: and one of the gym rats comes up to me

2157
02:07:00,800 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 2: and says, here, you work with Creed? Go yeah, he goes, dude,

2158
02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:08,120
Speaker 2: I was at stagecoach. Greatest show I've ever seen in

2159
02:07:08,160 --> 02:07:12,240
Speaker 2: my life, never seen them before, you know, And it's like, wow, okay, sweet,

2160
02:07:12,560 --> 02:07:14,960
Speaker 2: you know, but that just that alone. They're talking.

2161
02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:18,680
Speaker 1: Let's just talk Creed for a second now. Scott Staff

2162
02:07:18,720 --> 02:07:27,640
Speaker 1: has a horrendous reputation. Yeah, and uh, Creed. A lot

2163
02:07:27,680 --> 02:07:30,640
Speaker 1: of people don't like, how do you rebuild Creed?

2164
02:07:31,720 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's working, okay, because if you look at the

2165
02:07:34,080 --> 02:07:38,240
Speaker 2: tickets out, it's huge right now. Okay, it's huge. It's

2166
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:41,800
Speaker 2: it's arenas, it's sheds, and it's bigger than it's been

2167
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:46,160
Speaker 2: for a long time. How do you make them more

2168
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:51,800
Speaker 2: acceptable to not their core? Well that's a challenge. Okay, Uh,

2169
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:56,400
Speaker 2: but we kind of if you last Super Bowl, we

2170
02:07:56,400 --> 02:07:58,920
Speaker 2: had a commercial, you know, I can't even remember who

2171
02:07:58,920 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 2: it was for, but it was a commercial with a

2172
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:03,760
Speaker 2: Creed song and the band briefly in it and all

2173
02:08:03,800 --> 02:08:06,960
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. That was one impression. You know,

2174
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:12,600
Speaker 2: they were down in Indianapolis five hundred performing with Tom Brady.

2175
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:14,880
Speaker 2: That was all over the place all sudden. Okay, you're

2176
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:18,640
Speaker 2: with somebody different, something new, and then people go to

2177
02:08:18,760 --> 02:08:21,000
Speaker 2: it and they're like, wow, this is pretty awesome.

2178
02:08:21,200 --> 02:08:21,440
Speaker 1: You know.

2179
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:26,720
Speaker 2: And once again, wasn't a big Creed fan. But I

2180
02:08:26,800 --> 02:08:30,520
Speaker 2: managed Scott a long time ago, okay, and he came

2181
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:32,840
Speaker 2: back and asked me to be.

2182
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:37,400
Speaker 1: About Okay, So what's the future of rock? All your

2183
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:41,920
Speaker 1: big acts are rock acts. They certainly have little participation

2184
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:44,720
Speaker 1: in the Spotify tough fifty. What's the state of rock

2185
02:08:44,760 --> 02:08:47,320
Speaker 1: and where's it going? Well?

2186
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:54,880
Speaker 2: I think rock something changes and it changes every year. Okay,

2187
02:08:54,880 --> 02:08:57,320
Speaker 2: But if we looked at where's going to be in

2188
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:04,960
Speaker 2: ten years from now a few point of today, where

2189
02:09:04,960 --> 02:09:10,920
Speaker 2: can it go? You know? Ai TikTok. All these different

2190
02:09:11,680 --> 02:09:16,760
Speaker 2: mediums and technologies will erase the organic band and rock

2191
02:09:16,920 --> 02:09:23,840
Speaker 2: was based on real bands, real writers and working hard

2192
02:09:23,920 --> 02:09:27,640
Speaker 2: to build a handbase, not of the moment. Okay, and

2193
02:09:28,240 --> 02:09:31,960
Speaker 2: rock Rock's hot now, but I don't know how it

2194
02:09:32,040 --> 02:09:38,160
Speaker 2: survives social media, okay, and long term I'm not sure.

2195
02:09:38,920 --> 02:09:43,480
Speaker 1: Okay. So finally, what is the future of the business.

2196
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:46,560
Speaker 1: Some people in certain businesses they said, well, I'm not

2197
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:48,920
Speaker 1: going to live that long and I'll just ride into

2198
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:52,480
Speaker 1: the sunset and that's it. You're obviously not that guy,

2199
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:54,560
Speaker 1: because you said you already have enough money. You know,

2200
02:09:54,560 --> 02:09:57,320
Speaker 1: you're not working for the money or the money's always nice.

2201
02:09:57,440 --> 02:09:58,480
Speaker 2: I like money.

2202
02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:00,880
Speaker 1: Everybody likes it's solid.

2203
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 2: I'm not that right.

2204
02:10:02,280 --> 02:10:06,920
Speaker 1: So where is the business going? What changes do you

2205
02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:09,120
Speaker 1: see and where is it going to end up?

2206
02:10:09,960 --> 02:10:11,920
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that, because you read

2207
02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:19,280
Speaker 2: Gibbons sent me this podcast guy and I can't think

2208
02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:24,040
Speaker 2: of his name. It was talking about music sucks now

2209
02:10:24,760 --> 02:10:27,200
Speaker 2: Rick Beatle, Yeah, did you see that thing?

2210
02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2211
02:10:28,240 --> 02:10:31,440
Speaker 2: And you start what the hell you know? Or that

2212
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:35,360
Speaker 2: you know? And I watched that. It's just so scary,

2213
02:10:35,480 --> 02:10:37,680
Speaker 2: you know, and it's so anti what I think. And

2214
02:10:38,320 --> 02:10:41,880
Speaker 2: it's about art, you know, it's even if you the

2215
02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:45,760
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan movie okay, okay, whether you like it or not, Okay,

2216
02:10:46,000 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 2: the Bob Dyler movie. It showed a moment in music history. Okay,

2217
02:10:50,680 --> 02:10:54,520
Speaker 2: when it was pure, when they really cared and worked hard,

2218
02:10:55,480 --> 02:10:58,880
Speaker 2: and yeah they wanted success, they needed money, but it

2219
02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:02,840
Speaker 2: was like a community and it was fucking cool, you know.

2220
02:11:03,120 --> 02:11:07,320
Speaker 2: And if it's going farther and farther away from there,

2221
02:11:08,360 --> 02:11:13,680
Speaker 2: so if that continues that path, it will be artists

2222
02:11:13,720 --> 02:11:17,120
Speaker 2: that aren't real artists or music that lives for five

2223
02:11:17,160 --> 02:11:19,960
Speaker 2: minutes and gone, and there won't be the Bob Dylan's,

2224
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:23,680
Speaker 2: the Fluid Max, the Zzy Tops whatever, you know, they

2225
02:11:23,720 --> 02:11:27,040
Speaker 2: won't be able to come back. It's not geared that

2226
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:32,360
Speaker 2: way anymore. It's not so eventually what happens then, well

2227
02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:36,240
Speaker 2: it's all synthetic shit, you know, And so who are

2228
02:11:36,240 --> 02:11:38,320
Speaker 2: the artists? Who cares for the artists? I just like

2229
02:11:38,360 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 2: to listen to the song. Listen, you listen to your

2230
02:11:40,560 --> 02:11:44,840
Speaker 2: favorite band from the seventies, it brings a memory, you know.

2231
02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:48,800
Speaker 2: These songs are not memorable. These songs are not a memory.

2232
02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:53,480
Speaker 2: Watermelon Sugar and I love Harry Styles great, I like them,

2233
02:11:53,680 --> 02:11:57,240
Speaker 2: But is that going to ten years from now, twenty

2234
02:11:57,320 --> 02:12:01,720
Speaker 2: years in somebody's life be a memory, you know, like

2235
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 2: like a Zeppelin song and Pink Floyd the Wall or whatever. Yeah,

2236
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:06,840
Speaker 2: but the record we sat down I had my friends

2237
02:12:06,840 --> 02:12:09,160
Speaker 2: come over, we played it. I shared the record with them.

2238
02:12:09,280 --> 02:12:13,480
Speaker 2: You know, that whole community, it's not there anymore, and

2239
02:12:14,280 --> 02:12:17,800
Speaker 2: without community long term is scary.

2240
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:20,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you're going to do it till you drop.

2241
02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:25,120
Speaker 2: You ever gonna rend? No, Well, at some of them probably,

2242
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:30,280
Speaker 2: you know, at some level. Although watched tomorrow announce that

2243
02:12:30,320 --> 02:12:33,000
Speaker 2: I'm retiring and I'm going to some valley and I'm

2244
02:12:33,040 --> 02:12:35,480
Speaker 2: working on a pick a ball game and skiing every day.

2245
02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:38,800
Speaker 2: How about that? But I got fifty days in this.

2246
02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:44,040
Speaker 1: Year, so I got one hundred and two. Where three

2247
02:12:44,040 --> 02:12:46,080
Speaker 1: of them in Aspen, the rest in Veil. But that's

2248
02:12:46,080 --> 02:12:51,240
Speaker 1: a separate conversational. That's a separate conversation. But you're obviously

2249
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:54,080
Speaker 1: building an asset. Yeah, yeah, so at some point you

2250
02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:57,760
Speaker 1: want to sell it. Yeah, at some point, could be soon.

2251
02:12:59,320 --> 02:13:03,680
Speaker 1: Uh well, let's just assume. Just assume it is soon.

2252
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:06,360
Speaker 1: A lot of people I know are in your boat

2253
02:13:06,520 --> 02:13:10,560
Speaker 1: whose money is not the primary driver. They don't want

2254
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:12,320
Speaker 1: to be on the outside. They don't want to miss

2255
02:13:12,320 --> 02:13:16,600
Speaker 1: the action. Could you literally say, Okay, I'm done and

2256
02:13:16,680 --> 02:13:18,880
Speaker 1: I'm living in Sun Valley, I got a young kid.

2257
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:21,400
Speaker 1: Everything's groovy and I'm happy. Are you going to say, shit,

2258
02:13:21,760 --> 02:13:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, the email's not coming in. I'm not on

2259
02:13:24,400 --> 02:13:24,920
Speaker 1: a plane.

2260
02:13:24,960 --> 02:13:27,720
Speaker 2: This is weird, No, I take I think I'm a

2261
02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 2: little different than that, you know, I think c W.

2262
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:34,960
Speaker 2: It's this shoulder, carls that shoulder. C W's still there.

2263
02:13:35,200 --> 02:13:39,400
Speaker 2: S kee bum, okay, skey bum. I'm acting Carl every day. Well,

2264
02:13:39,440 --> 02:13:41,520
Speaker 2: maybe that act is over. I go back to CW.

2265
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:43,600
Speaker 2: And by the way, I own pieces of restaurants, I

2266
02:13:43,640 --> 02:13:46,360
Speaker 2: own a musical, I own this. I'll keep those things,

2267
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 2: you know. But if I if I was to sell

2268
02:13:49,720 --> 02:13:52,720
Speaker 2: the company, I'd have to stay with the company because

2269
02:13:52,720 --> 02:13:56,560
Speaker 2: the company's predicated on me as the driver. It's a

2270
02:13:56,600 --> 02:13:59,000
Speaker 2: service business, so it's not an asset, so you have

2271
02:13:59,080 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 2: to stay for a while.

2272
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily forever.

2273
02:14:01,400 --> 02:14:04,280
Speaker 2: But then it becomes like an emeritis chairman or whatever

2274
02:14:04,320 --> 02:14:07,360
Speaker 2: it is, you know, and you're still involved, you know,

2275
02:14:07,480 --> 02:14:10,520
Speaker 2: and your kid's going to be successful in it, Jackson

2276
02:14:10,640 --> 02:14:13,280
Speaker 2: is going to be you know, and you're advising that

2277
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:17,360
Speaker 2: there's plenty of action in my life not to have

2278
02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:22,440
Speaker 2: to be day to day okay involved. However, for the

2279
02:14:22,440 --> 02:14:25,080
Speaker 2: next probably three to five years, I'm definitely day today.

2280
02:14:25,320 --> 02:14:27,800
Speaker 2: You know, there's no outing because I'm not prepared to

2281
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:31,800
Speaker 2: let even if I don't. If I weren't selling, weren't

2282
02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:33,760
Speaker 2: going to sell it, and I'm not saying I'm selling

2283
02:14:33,800 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 2: right now. But if the plan was for always, then

2284
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:39,720
Speaker 2: I got to still build it bigger so it survives

2285
02:14:39,920 --> 02:14:42,240
Speaker 2: better chance of survival. So I'm committed to that.

2286
02:14:43,520 --> 02:14:45,360
Speaker 1: And on that note, I think we've come to the

2287
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:49,440
Speaker 1: end of the feeling we've known. Carl, thanks so much

2288
02:14:49,480 --> 02:14:52,880
Speaker 1: for spending this time with my audience and going through

2289
02:14:52,920 --> 02:14:54,440
Speaker 1: the history and philosophy.

2290
02:14:55,080 --> 02:14:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's my pleasure, you know. I just hope I

2291
02:14:58,680 --> 02:15:01,240
Speaker 2: didn't say too many times. He's got that right on.

2292
02:15:01,600 --> 02:15:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Until next time. This is Bob

2293
02:15:04,520 --> 02:15:05,040
Speaker 1: left Sex

2294
02:15:26,880 --> 02:15:27,000
Speaker 2: Sh