WEBVTT - Closing Statements : The Widemans 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.200 You place your left hand on the Bible and raise 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.840 your right hand and repeat after me. I you solemnly 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.560 swear who the jury buying it defended not to Your 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.960 process continued this weekend in Ferguson and around the country, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:27.200 resisting your sense. If it doesn't fit, you must to quit. Judge, 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.360 you are the last line of reason in this case. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.720 Every one of us took out all the offs, and 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:39.480 we're sworn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:45.479 this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. On this 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.200 episode of Closing Statements, Phil talks to one of Debora 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.120 Wideman's family members who reached out to him after the 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.800 first three episodes were released. But first we'll hear Jason 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:59.040 Walker's perspective to recap, Jason Walker was the alleged father 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.840 of Melissa's baby, someone who seemed to have a potential 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.520 motive at the time. He agreed to talk to us 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.640 about his experience, but he didn't want his voice to 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.480 be used. I'll be reading the questions that we asked 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.440 Jason and Phil with voices responses. What was your life 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.160 like in Turner County in two thousand two, where did 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.240 you live. What was your job? I lived in the 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.880 northern part of the county, working on a decent sized 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.800 farm in South Crisp County. I enjoyed the work and 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.920 who I worked for, no complaints. What was your relationship 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.520 with Melissa Like? Someone mentioned to us that you may 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.839 have been married at the time you were seeing Melissa. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.920 Is that right? Or were you exclusively with Melissa at 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.000 the time. I was not married at the time of 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.280 the incident. It's no secret that our relationships started when 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.880 I was married. We continued after I divorced. I'll not 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.560 dispute that there were ups and downs. It's no secret 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.440 you probably know that. What was your relationship with t 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.960 J and Deborah Like? Our parents treated me very well, 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.160 even at times when maybe they shouldn't have. They welcomed 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.120 me in their home and never made me feel like 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.520 they didn't want me there. We even went on an 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.400 out of town trip or two. What was your alibi 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.120 that night? We heard from a credible source that your 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.240 car hood was cold that morning and that you couldn't 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.240 have left your house in that car. Could you tell 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.360 us the same alibi you told the police. If my 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.680 old age memory serves me right, We had gone to 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.679 Cordial Walmart for some things, and then stopped to see 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.320 a couple of guys at the GSP post when it 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.480 was still on Midway Road. Then when I went home, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.840 I was home until I was notified of the fire. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.840 When I was notified, I rode with someone to the house. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.120 Did you feel like you're the only person of interest 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.120 in that case or that there was too much focus 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.079 on you? How did the investigation impact your personal life 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.760 with internal County? What about your professional life? I don't 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.480 think I was the only suspect, of course, in the situation. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.680 I was the first one that came to their minds. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.160 The second part of that question I can't really answer 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.400 because I don't know how much anyone else was question 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.360 third part, you know things like this, Well, I've easily 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.360 make people wonder. I've maintained my innocence the whole time 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.840 and still do very very few ever treated me different. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:09.679 What do you think could have been done differently in 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.679 the investigation process in order to find the person or 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.840 people that did this and, as you said, bring relief 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.440 to those of you who were wrongly accused. I can't 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.679 really answer this because I only know what they did 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.480 when they questioned me. I allowed a search of my 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.280 home and my car without them having a warrant. I 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.799 had no reason to interfere or make it hard on them. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.840 I know Slash News several of the guys that were 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.320 on the case at the time. They were doing their job, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.520 and we remain good friends today. Again, though, I can 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.680 only answer about how I was questioned, not anyone else. 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.000 Who else do you think was wrongly accused along with you? 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:47.960 I can only speak for me. I know I was 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.840 wrongly accused, and I really don't know who was questioned 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.720 or in what manner. Do you think there are still 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.560 people in Turner County that think you had something to 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.160 do with the incident until it's solved. I'm sure there are, 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.680 but I don't think I'm the only one people suspect. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.640 But can't speak for anyone else either. I guess the 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.840 media could only report on what they were told by 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.760 law enforcement. I don't think they tried to push an opinion, 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.000 only what they were given. How do you think the 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.400 media handled the case? I guess the media could only 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.200 report on what they were told by law enforcement. I 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.120 don't think they tried to push an opinion, only told 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.279 what they were given. Finally, Jason says, I hope that 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.120 helps you. I hope what you're doing finds the missing 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.680 piece or that one person that knows what happened. We 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.480 both know that someone knows what happened, and it's long 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.400 overdue that the truth be told. Thanks for reaching out 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.440 to me, and I hope what I've told you helped. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.120 Good luck with getting others to reply back to you. 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.760 David Er, one of Deborah's younger brothers, reached out to 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.479 Phil after the first three episodes aired. He wanted to 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.760 talk to us. He said he had something to share, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.080 so Phil called him back. David, can you please tell 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.680 us what your name is and how you're connected to 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.320 this case. I am David Wheeler. I am the younger 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.640 brother of Deborah Wideman. Devor and Tom and Joe and 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.760 Melissa were part of my family. Where do you live? 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.800 I live in Sycamore, Georgia, about a mile or two 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.520 from the Kiff County line and about five miles from 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.679 from Ashman, Georgian, about twelve miles from Rebecca, where they lived. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.200 I wanted to take a few minutes to talk about 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.640 your sister and her family, the people that lost their lives, 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.080 What can you tell us about them? They were very friendly, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.400 very social. Everybody in the community knew them. Everybody in 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.560 the county. Between Devera and Tom and Joe, they were 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.520 liked by every one. I don't know anybody that didn't 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.880 like them. Tomma Joe was a very friend, happy going, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.960 easy going person. Devil was also they loved people. They 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.839 loved to be around people, and they love to have 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.960 a good time. What about your niece, Can you tell 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.440 us something about her? I think she was also one 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.039 that was very friendlish, She enjoyed her friends. She was 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.440 expecting with her first child. She was about a month 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.120 or six weeks away from from the living her child. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.440 She was very friendly, had lots of friends in the community. 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.960 Even don't know if anyone that disliked her. She was 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.799 very happy, very joyful. Do we know who the father 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.880 of her unborn child was? It was suspected that it 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.479 was a Walker, Jason Walker. To my knowledge that too 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.440 the dad was. Is that what she believed as well? Yes, yes, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.920 I know this may be difficult, but if you can, 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.359 can you kind of walk us through how you found 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.840 out about the fire and ultimately the murders. It was 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.040 a Thursday afternoon. That Thursday afternoon, I actually had a 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.960 phone call from my sister Debor. I was outside and 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.280 one of the my daughter I believe, brought me the 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.960 house phone. She had called to ask if we would 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.760 be coming to Easter. I believe Easter was the not 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.280 that weekend, but the following weekend, and they wanted to 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.400 have a get together at at their house, and they 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.840 were staying at Toma Joe's mother's home. And so around 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.160 six o'clock she get called and we talked and had 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.160 a great conversation, talked about twenty minutes, and we told 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.119 her Or I told her that we would become for Easter. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.840 And then about tween two and three o'clock that morning, 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.160 Friday morning, I got a phone call from elderly friend 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.520 that lived in Rebecca, and she called the house and 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.280 said that Devon Toma Joe's the house was on fire. 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:49.720 It was Tom Joe's mother's house. Said the house was 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.480 on fire, but they could not find Devor and Toma 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.680 joinning where nobody could reach them. They tried calling and 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.000 and nobody could reach them or nobody knew where they was, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:04.080 and she hung up. I called my sister and told 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.360 her that the house was on fire and that nobody 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.160 could get ahold of Damner coming Joe. And the first 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.080 thing to come in my mind was that maybe Melissa 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.040 had went into labor, maybe they had to take her 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.880 to the hospital, And so I told her she would 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.760 call the hospital and call our brother who lived in 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.280 Irbville at the time. Then I was going to call 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.880 my father in law. We had three small children that 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.320 were nine, eleven, and fifteen at that time, and so 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.240 we called him and asked him if he could come 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.240 over to the house because we was going to drive 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.520 to Rebecca and see if we could find out what 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.760 was going on, or see if we could find Devin, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.640 Tom and Joe. My sister called back and said that 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.160 she had called the closest hospitals, the two or three 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.680 hospitals around, and they did not have a Melissa there, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.120 did not have her. They're delivering or no when was 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.120 there by that name. So we drove to the house. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.120 Their houses up on isolated drive on a country highway. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.320 But when we got there there was a deputy sheriff 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.360 at the end of the driveway. What time did you 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.239 get to the side of the fire, I would say 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.360 around four thirty. It's far enough off the roads. I 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.560 couldn't tell. Knew there were a lot of fire trucks 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.120 up there and appear to boost a lot of the 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.079 police cars. But the devity's sheriff would not allow us 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.360 to go up into the drive. He would not allow 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.040 us to go up to the house. I asked him, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.800 I told him who I was, told him it was 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.480 my sister's house and we were trying to find out 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.440 where they were. But he would not allow us to 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.920 go up into the drive. So when we left there, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.040 we went to Charles Henry's house, that was Toma Joe's brother, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.319 and we went to Charles Henry's house. He was there. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.200 We he met us at the door, and we went 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.000 in and I was talking to him and just asking 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.920 him to even know anything, And at that time he 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.000 told us he didn't know anything. He didn't know where 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.080 they were, he didn't know anything about He did tell 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.079 us that he had been to the house. So wait 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.600 a minute, they let him in the house or to 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.840 the scene, but they wouldn't let you apparently, So he 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:00.880 told us that he had been there and then he 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.160 had left, but they would not allow us to go 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.560 up into the house. Did he say if he went 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.439 there with anyone else? He did not. He didn't say 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.760 if he was by himself or him one took him, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.319 or if anybody went with him. He didn't. He did 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.920 not imply that anyone had went with him at that time. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.560 He did tell us that his son was there at 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.800 the house where we were now at his house, he 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.360 was in the bedroom of sleep, but he didn't tell 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.280 us whether he didn't say he was at the house 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.360 with him. What time of day was it that you 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.760 were at Charles's house? We were probably back at charles 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.600 is between four thirty and five. How long did you 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.480 stay there? We stayed there till after lunch the following day, 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.160 all right, at lunch, that was a Friday. We stayed 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.280 there toil long was lunch. We were there about twenty 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.559 minutes maybe, and my brother Larry Weather, he and his 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.800 wife they showed up at Charles's Charles Henrys, and then 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.120 maybe another thirty minutes, and my sister showed up there. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.480 And by that time it's probably around five thirty quarter 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.000 to six in the morning. And by that time there 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.440 were people in the community who had heard about the 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.439 house fire that were beginning to show up at the house. 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.960 So by six o'clock the house was pretty well full 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.600 of people in the community. You mentioned that Charles Son 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.880 was sleeping. Did you ever see him come out? I 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.360 did not see him until probably ten o'clock the next morning. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.520 Had you been there NonStop that whole time? I had 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.320 been in the house from around four thirty and five. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.680 We've been there from four thirty until tween eleven and twelve. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.600 We left and came back to our house between eleven 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.839 and twelve p m. Am. Well eleven made him Friday morning. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.520 We were there from five am, probably four thirty am 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.800 till eleven or twelve a m. And the only person 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.679 you were talking with was Charles correct. He was only 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.600 one that came out and talked to me and my brother. 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:58.040 And then probably around eight o'clock the corner Edgar Perry 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.160 came over to the house and told us that the 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.600 bodies were in the house and that there was foul play. 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.280 He did not tell us what had happened, but he 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.520 said there was foul play and this was a criminal 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.079 investigation at this time. What was your reaction and what 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.080 was everyone else's reaction? Well, everyone was shocked and surprised, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.240 you know, you couldn't believe that something like this had 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.920 happened to them, just going through your mind, how could 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.839 this have happened? Who could have done this? There was 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.800 nobody that disliked them. The house is far enough off 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.880 the road. Within a day or two, there was all 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.880 kinds of theories and all kind of Everybody had their 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.200 different opinions and ideas about who did it or what happened. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.600 So who was present when the coroner came to deliver 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:47.200 that news to you, Charles Henry, myself and my wife, 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.720 and Charles Henry's I don't believe the son was there 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.560 at that time where out when he talked to us, 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.280 But there was my sister and my brother and his wife, 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.160 and then there was a large number of people from 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.240 the community. There was probably twenty or thirty people from 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.040 the community were there also, and he he just kind 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:04.439 of took us to the side in the room. But 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.800 there were some other people standing around. I couldn't call 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.680 their names. Where there were some other people standing around 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.319 when he he told us that there was foul play. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.520 Was there anything that you felt was unusual about the 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.360 time that you spent at Charles's house that morning? I 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.960 don't know it was just kind of quiet. I don't 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.240 really know. I'd have to think on that question for 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.200 a moment. Well, let me ask you another question. Did 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.599 you ever wonder why Charles was allowed to go to 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.160 the side of the fire but you weren't. Well, I 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.319 did question, Dad. I didn't want to know why we 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.040 couldn't go up there since it was our our sister, 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.680 and you know, I'm wondering why they wouldn't allow us 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.679 to go up there and find out. I know it 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.319 was his, his property or his family's property, but I 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.280 did question, you know, one couldn't we go up there, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.920 or at least way up there until they found out something. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.839 Why was your sister and her family staying at that 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.840 house at that time? They often did that. Toma Joe's 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.520 mother and Miss Joe. She lived in Frontadina and I 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.120 think I don't know, but I'm pretty sure she had 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.360 some valuable items in the house. I know she probably 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.439 had her husband or Toma Joe's daddy, Mr. Widman, I 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.480 believe at one time. I know one time he had 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.960 a lot of guns, a lot of collectible guns, and 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.440 she wanted them to stay there for to secure her home. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.120 She had some valuable items there and to help up 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.000 keep the home and to show that, you know, somebody 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.120 was in and out of the house. So they quite 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.320 frequently would go up there and stay. They might stay 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.360 up there the weekend, or stay up there three or 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.080 four days out a week, or sometimes two or three 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.720 weeks out of time, and then go back to their 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.200 house in Rebecca, a couple of miles away. But they 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:50.080 stayed because for security reasons for her home. So Miss Joe, 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.520 was she a full time resident at Fernandina Beach or 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.360 did she split her time and how did that work? 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.040 She spent the majority of her time in front of 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.000 Dama Beach. I believe for reasons how well she stayed 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.440 down there because of the sea air or whatever, or 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.840 she had asthma or I don't you know. I don't 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.280 know exactly, but it was some health reasons was one 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.080 of the reasons she stayed down in front of Dena. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.400 Do you know where she was the night of the fire. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:18.920 I had thought that she was at her home in 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.240 front of Dena. Now later it come out that she 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.160 may have been in the hospital, But as she was, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.360 I thought it would have been down there from Dana somewhere. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.800 Then I did see a news report that said it 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.280 actually quoted Charles Wideman as saying that she was in 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.200 the hospital the night of the fire. That's possible. I 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.640 haven't heard anything to verify that, but that's possible. I 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.440 know she was very sickly. I know she she passed 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.800 away within the week or ten days of Tom and 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.600 Joe and Devorah Melissa's death. She passed away, So she 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.360 died within a week or ten days of your sister 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.560 and her family's murder. That's correct, And she believed that 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.400 they did not tell her because of her help. They 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.120 didn't tell her until after the funeral latter was all over. Wait, 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.600 they didn't tell miss Joe that her family had been murdered. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.040 I think that's correct. I think that's what I had heard, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.880 that they did not tell her until it was after 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.640 the funeral. If she was told then, but I believe 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:35.000 it was after the funeral when she was told. Now 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.520 I've come to learn that later there was some litigation 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:45.280 between the estate of your sister and the estate of 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.080 miss Joe. Is that correct. I'm not as familiar with that. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.040 My brother's more familiar with that part of it. I 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.440 would hesitate to answer on that because I'm I don't 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.440 know enough to give a correct answer. Okay, can you 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:05.160 tell us about Ms Joe's financial circumstances. Was she well offered? 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.080 Was she a person of modest means? I don't know 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.200 her exact figure, but she would I wouldn't probably consider 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.360 well if she was a landowner, and she probably had 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.680 stalking things. But I know she had two or three 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.760 farms in the county, in the house in front of 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.879 Dana or some property in front of DNA, so I 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.160 would you know, I would consider that more than honest. 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.000 I don't know an exact figure, but I would think 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.600 it's more than modest. When was the last time your 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.600 brother in law saw his mother. I believe him and 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.600 Charles Henry had went down and visited her within a 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.000 month before the murders. I don't know an exact date, 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.119 but him and Charles Henry had been down there to 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.159 see her. You know, I can't, like I said, I 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.680 can't say an exact date, but within weeks or a 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.200 month or less from the murders happening. I think he 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.760 told me earlier today when we talked, that some people 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.240 went to visit her. It just within a day or 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.600 two of the murders. Who was that. I believe Charles 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.399 Henry's wife and his daughter in law they were there 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.480 the day of the murder, and maybe he had went 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.200 the day before. I don't know when they left to 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.640 go down there, but they were not at the house. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.920 And when you know, we did ask where it was Diane, 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.000 his wife, and he said they were down in Fernandina 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.800 on the night of the murders. Do you know if 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.760 anyone was visiting Ms. Joe? To my knowledge, Diane and 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.159 his son's wife were visiting her or had left to 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.280 go down there. I don't know when they left, but 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.840 he said they were going to Fernandina, So I don't 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.159 know when they left to go, but they were going 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.439 to Frontandana to see Ms. Joe. So on the night 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:40.000 of the murders, Charles Widenman and his son were in Rebecca, 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.119 but the rest of the family was in Fernandina. Is 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.240 that correct? Correct? That's what I was told. That's what 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.640 Charles Henry had said, that they were gone down there. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.920 He didn't say when they left, but the night in 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.960 the murders, he and his son were the only ones 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.080 in town or at home. How about your sister and 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.360 her family had anyone else gone to visit Ms Joe. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.760 I couldn't say. I know Tom and Joe and Deva 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.280 would frequently go down and visit with her and check 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.520 on her. They would check on her when she would 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.840 come home. But now I can't say for certain who 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.960 else went down there to see her, or how often? 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:15.440 Can you tell me the story that we talked about 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.400 earlier today about somebody going and seeing her just before 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.480 the murders and coming back with some jewelry. I was 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.359 told I thought that Tom and Joe had and when 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.879 Charles went down there, that she had given Tom and 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.760 Joe's some jewelry or something. I don't know how much 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:30.920 or one kind would she had given him some and 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.800 had brought it back home. Do you want to talk 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:38.240 about the relationship now between your side of the family 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.600 and the Wideman's. Is that something you're comfortable talking about? 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.159 Not really? You know, I see them and I speak 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.239 with them, and they speak when me. We was at 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.879 a I was at a meeting just recently, and and 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:51.920 they were president at the meeting. You know, we we 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.879 speak to one another and we've occasionally run into one 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.920 another in town. Does anybody ever talk to you about 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.399 the murders. People come up from time to time and 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.440 they'll ask me or they'll talk to me and they'll 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.240 give me their opinion, they'll give me their suspicions. I 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.600 have very seldom bring it up from very seldom talk 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.000 about it. Our our daughter initiated the conversation. But it 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.159 doesn't offend me or bother me. When someone comes up 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:17.959 and they want to talk or they want to ask her, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.360 you know, they want to express their concern. Most time, 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.200 when the sheriff comes up and publicizes their murders again 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.240 or speaks on the in the newspaper, or speaks on 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.080 the local television station in al Any, you know, to 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.960 generate some conversations and people come up and they'll talk 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.119 with their ask her that you know, they're sorry about 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.520 what happened and all it did affect my family. I 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:40.320 don't bring it up and talk about it much because 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.720 I had a nine year old son and eleven year 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.119 old daughter and a fifteen year old daughter, and we 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.159 didn't talk about it a whole lot because of my 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.680 nine year old and eleven year old. For over a year. 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:51.760 We had just built a house and we had just 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.359 moved in it. We've been here about a year and 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.200 for about a year a year and a half, my 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.440