Speaker 1: Hi, I'm George Nori and welcome to the new iHeartRadio
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Speaker 1: This is an exciting new network that will feature podcasts
Speaker 1: of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now please sit
Speaker 1: back and enjoy Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Hollis. Welcome
Speaker 1: to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and opinions
Speaker 1: expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only
Speaker 1: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.
Speaker 1: We would like to encourage you to do your own
Speaker 1: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. You are
Speaker 1: listening to Darkbecome Light with Me, Heidi Hollis, iHeartRadio Coach
Speaker 1: Coach they Am. You're a normal podcast network blocomes in
Speaker 1: my show. Remember each week this is the place you
Speaker 1: go to when you want to learn the latest and
Speaker 1: mysterious encounters, holly encounters, cryptozoological encounters, and if you or
Speaker 1: someone you know has experienced anything out of the ordinary
Speaker 1: and you want to share you want to learn, or
Speaker 1: you want to comment, or you want to ask anything,
Speaker 1: go to my main website, which is Heidi Hollis dot
Speaker 1: com or shadow folks dot com. Tell me your story's
Speaker 1: give as much detail as you would like. Because of
Speaker 1: more details are better. And I mean, we open up
Speaker 1: the floodgates for anything and everything out of ordinary because
Speaker 1: it's important to paint a picture of what is going
Speaker 1: on and what is possible in this world. I mean,
Speaker 1: how else are we going to learn about this stuff
Speaker 1: unless we break down these stories. And I mean, if
Speaker 1: you got photos, I get a lot of people say
Speaker 1: how do I submit photos or drawings? Just write me
Speaker 1: at Heidi Hollis at gmail dot com. How about that
Speaker 1: or through that website as well, and just you know,
Speaker 1: I'll take it up. I'll take it, We'll look at it.
Speaker 1: And you know what, you guys, you are in for
Speaker 1: a treat today because I have one of the world's
Speaker 1: top researchers. On the shroud of Turin, that is the
Speaker 1: burial cloth of Jesus Christ. There is an image of
Speaker 1: a man who was obviously crucified, and it's been studied
Speaker 1: for a very long time, but then it got tested
Speaker 1: for the time period from which this cloth came from,
Speaker 1: and it was shown to be that this was actually
Speaker 1: dated not during Jesus's time, and people are like, it's
Speaker 1: a fake, it's a fraud. No, no, no. If you've
Speaker 1: kept up with what occurred after that conclusion, it was
Speaker 1: shown that it was tested from a repaired section of
Speaker 1: the shroud. How did they come to that conclusion. Well,
Speaker 1: Joseph Marino knows because he and his wife are responsible
Speaker 1: for that conclusion. So you guys, you've got to hear
Speaker 1: this story because it's amazing. The story on the shrouded
Speaker 1: Turn is not over. It is absolutely unexplainable what occurred here,
Speaker 1: how this image of a man was impressed upon this cloth.
Speaker 1: Much more testing and much more work needs to be done.
Speaker 1: And Joseph Marino, he's going to tell you all about
Speaker 1: it and his story because it's something you've never heard before.
Speaker 1: And I know you're going to enjoy him. He's really
Speaker 1: really insightful and wow, mind blowing stuff. But to be
Speaker 1: in with you guys, I got a couple of your emails.
Speaker 1: M yes, I do. I am going to read these
Speaker 1: things off here and I grab them randomly. I want
Speaker 1: them to be short, so I look for short ones
Speaker 1: and totally I never read these things beforehand. I really
Speaker 1: try not to and just dive in so you get
Speaker 1: the raw me when I'm checking these things out and
Speaker 1: let you just never know what we got. I just
Speaker 1: love it, all right. Okay, So this first email says,
Speaker 1: Dear Heidi, I see every evening black orbs and shadow
Speaker 1: lines in my room. I don't know what they are
Speaker 1: or what they want. Harry, Hey there, Harry, how's it going.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. I don't get many people talking about the
Speaker 1: black orbs. I personally had an encounter that wasn't very
Speaker 1: pleasant myself, and being that shadow beings are connected to
Speaker 1: aliens and vice versa, I mean, it's it's hard to
Speaker 1: exactly say what these things are, but I could tell
Speaker 1: you what they have done to myself, and I've heard
Speaker 1: from others too. They seem very alien because they are
Speaker 1: perfectly round, right, and they can form rows. They can
Speaker 1: operate together or solo, right, but they're black. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen them personally shape shift or anything like that. But
Speaker 1: I'll just tell you what happened. Okay. I know I
Speaker 1: spoke of it here on the program, but I think
Speaker 1: it was a while ago. So this one night, I
Speaker 1: was sleeping on my couch. Okay, I was watching television.
Speaker 1: My college roommate was in the next room that kind
Speaker 1: of opened up to the living room right there, right.
Speaker 1: So I'm sleeping and I hear my friend's scream. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what you know? And I wake up and I am
Speaker 1: floating up towards the ceiling and there was this big, big,
Speaker 1: black like crack in the ceiling. It's so weird. It
Speaker 1: was like an interdimensional looking thing, right, And I was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: you know, and I wiggle free and boom, I am
Speaker 1: dropped from the ceiling onto its futon. It wasn't comfortable, okay,
Speaker 1: boom onto the futon. And I literally scurried and I'm
Speaker 1: crouched and I'm looking up at the ceiling and all
Speaker 1: in the room, all in the room, the living room,
Speaker 1: and you know, the TV's on, and it's like lighting
Speaker 1: up these black orbs okay, and oh, I get chills.
Speaker 1: And they were just like floating in the middle of
Speaker 1: the room. And then they all floated up to the
Speaker 1: ceiling right and and like lined up like perfect little rows,
Speaker 1: and the crack closed and and these these black orbs
Speaker 1: started to fade away right, and and my friend and
Speaker 1: I were both crouched out on the on the ground
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: could still see that, I could still see them, and
Speaker 1: and we didn't even want to reach up to turn
Speaker 1: like the light on, to you know, get a better look.
Speaker 1: We're just like too scared to raise up because they
Speaker 1: were some of them were still gathering up onto the ceiling,
Speaker 1: and um, it was. It was weird. It took a
Speaker 1: while for them to like saddle and fade, but we
Speaker 1: could still see this outline, like a kind of transparent
Speaker 1: outline of them, and we finally just you know, as
Speaker 1: they faded more, we got the nerve to flick the
Speaker 1: light on and was like, what in the heck? It
Speaker 1: seemed like they were transporting me, um, creating an interdimensional
Speaker 1: crack of some kind, like pulling time apart and creating
Speaker 1: this rift to yank me through. It was really odd
Speaker 1: and it had a negative vibe to it, very much
Speaker 1: like shadow beings would, but also mechanical spying even so
Speaker 1: to say exactly what they are, I've heard of glowing
Speaker 1: orbs that would take people by surprise because they would
Speaker 1: be like I don't know what this is about, flying
Speaker 1: parallel to the ground, going at a very fast speed,
Speaker 1: or being like these little orby things that kind of
Speaker 1: hang in the night sky and have a look at
Speaker 1: people and people feel like they're probe Like, you know,
Speaker 1: they're too small to actually house a entity in there.
Speaker 1: But I mean, we have drones, right, we have drones
Speaker 1: where we can use a camera to spy and stuff,
Speaker 1: so you know, maybe these things are kind of like that.
Speaker 1: But they also seem to have this ability to open
Speaker 1: up doorways. Okay. Also when you think of the orbs,
Speaker 1: the ghost orbs that people shows, it shows up in
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of photos. They have been
Speaker 1: known to spin and to open up portals as well. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's great imagery out there photos of these things doing that.
Speaker 1: Like they get together and they pull energy together, and
Speaker 1: they they're able to do things that gives you the
Speaker 1: hebe jeebies from head to toe. Yes it does. So
Speaker 1: I hope that's helpful for you, Harry. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not psychic or guru, but you know, there seems to
Speaker 1: be that there's a pulling together of energy with these things.
Speaker 1: So personally, I would bless my space because alien or not.
Speaker 1: If you don't want them there in your home, then
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be there, you know, clear the air. All right,
Speaker 1: So I want to get to this next one. I
Speaker 1: don't want to run out of time. There's another short one,
Speaker 1: all right, and this one comes to us from Robert.
Speaker 1: It goes Hiidi. I know I've lived past lives. Was
Speaker 1: wondering if my one true perfect love partner from my
Speaker 1: past might be again walking this earth and searching for me. Hmm,
Speaker 1: that's cool. That's a nice, warm, fuzzy thought. I like
Speaker 1: that also. I believe animals pets also come back into
Speaker 1: physical form, but I hear stories of people who come
Speaker 1: across over to heaven and meet their long lost pets.
Speaker 1: How long do people and pets stay in heaven before
Speaker 1: they once again take earthly forms. Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I like that one, Oh, Robert, all right, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. It's like I personally am again. I'm
Speaker 1: not a psychic, but I've had people come on this
Speaker 1: program and I wish I could remember names better than
Speaker 1: I do. But there was a researcher that came on
Speaker 1: who was an expert in reincarnation, and he said in
Speaker 1: Asian countries and other countries who believe in reincarnation, like outright,
Speaker 1: like I'll see you soon, you'll be back. You know,
Speaker 1: the proven cases of reincarnation were it was just a
Speaker 1: few months, like like six months. I think it was
Speaker 1: the average or something like that of people past loved
Speaker 1: ones coming back into human form. Isn't that something? But
Speaker 1: Western cultures, you know, us people who have these thick
Speaker 1: skulls who don't like to believe in such things as reincarnation.
Speaker 1: It's years sometimes decades. Is that something? So because we
Speaker 1: think that we should wait for others on the other side,
Speaker 1: that that was literally said by this researcher, that we
Speaker 1: believe that, well, i'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, shoot, now I gotta sit here and
Speaker 1: wait for you to come so we could have a
Speaker 1: conversation when I could have been reborn already and been
Speaker 1: your been your baby or something. And it's interesting how
Speaker 1: they interchange and switch it up like that, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, one time your your brother and sister, another
Speaker 1: time your your cousins. You know, it's it's really really
Speaker 1: interesting the patterns and stuff. So, um, I think it's
Speaker 1: fascinating that you know that you've lived past lives. A
Speaker 1: lot of people question, you know the validity of that,
Speaker 1: or if you're saying that, you would say something like that.
Speaker 1: But it was taught before in the Bible. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's there. I've spoke to you a monk not too
Speaker 1: long ago who said, well, yeah, that's that's true. You
Speaker 1: know John the Baptists was Elijah reborn. It's mentioned right there,
Speaker 1: and it used to be taught in the church. Well,
Speaker 1: kum bay yah, that's awesome. I'm glad to know that.
Speaker 1: But for some reason Western cultures just don't address those
Speaker 1: things as much as they once did. But we are
Speaker 1: greater than we are allowed or led to believe. You guys,
Speaker 1: I don't know why that is, but never questioned the
Speaker 1: human potential. And also know that God made us the
Speaker 1: way he did for a reason. We're not perfect, We're flawed.
Speaker 1: We're meant to fall down, get back up, come back again,
Speaker 1: and recycle. It happens. But I think that there's something
Speaker 1: that's capturing souls and that is hello, hat man, that
Speaker 1: is stopping the natural progression of our days and times,
Speaker 1: and you know time is coming to an end. He
Speaker 1: likes to call himself Satan, well, he's going to play
Speaker 1: that role and get thrown in the dungeon and kept there.
Speaker 1: All right, you guys, do you guys stick around because
Speaker 1: we've got a fabulous show coming up here with Joe Marino.
Speaker 1: You are listening to Dark Becomes Like with me Hetty Hollis,
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast. They am para normal podcast network.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, welcome back. You are listening to
Speaker 1: Dark Becomes Lights with me Heidi Hollis on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and Coach Coast. They am paranormal podcast network. As promised,
Speaker 1: I have a fabulous guest, Joseph Marino, who has a
Speaker 1: BA in theological studies and is a long time syndonologist
Speaker 1: who is one who studies the Shroud of Turin. He
Speaker 1: has research, written, and lectured extensively on the shrouds nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven. He became ordained to priesthood in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: becoming a benedicting monk as a result of his interests
Speaker 1: in the Shroud. In nineteen ninety seven, Marino received a
Speaker 1: call from M. Sue Benford, who informed him on her
Speaker 1: spiritual insights about the Shroud. After many discussions by phone
Speaker 1: and emails about the shroud and other spiritual matters, he
Speaker 1: began to experience God in a whole new way. He
Speaker 1: felt powerfully drawn to leave the monastery to pursue shroud
Speaker 1: research and other spiritual paths with Benford. Marino believes that
Speaker 1: if the shroud can be shown to be the burial
Speaker 1: cloth of Jesus, it would be an interesting archaeological object. However,
Speaker 1: he believes that it's more important for the spiritual message
Speaker 1: it can bring most definitely. So I am excited to
Speaker 1: introduce my guests, Joseph Marino. How are you doing today there, Joe,
Speaker 1: good honey, how are you doing fabulous? I am always
Speaker 1: trying to follow and keep top of the latest research
Speaker 1: when it comes to the Shroud of Turen And it's
Speaker 1: an honor, honestly to be talking to one of the
Speaker 1: leading researchers on this. But your background is so diverse,
Speaker 1: I mean, you want to tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about how you became the person you are as you
Speaker 1: are currently, because it's it's quite the story. Well, I
Speaker 1: grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, and I was born
Speaker 1: and raised a Catholic. I was the youngest of five,
Speaker 1: and I was very into sports, both playing officiating, following
Speaker 1: professional teams in Saint Louis that sort of thing, and
Speaker 1: kind of thought at some point, I you know, they
Speaker 1: they always kind of recommend do something that you likes.
Speaker 1: You don't have to work a day in your life.
Speaker 1: I'll do something in sports. Probably wasn't quite good enough
Speaker 1: to be, you know, professional athletes, so you know, you
Speaker 1: start thinking about being a writer or broadcaster or that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. And you know, so I, you know,
Speaker 1: did did a broadcasting class at uh in College and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it's it's not as easy
Speaker 1: as it looks, you know. But yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: into into music a lot. Just I don't didn't play anything.
Speaker 1: My dad was a musician, but but he didn't leave
Speaker 1: many me any genes to to learn how to play
Speaker 1: an instrument. Um. So, you know, I like the Beatles
Speaker 1: and the Moody Blues, and I still do to this day.
Speaker 1: There's still my my two go to bands. And um,
Speaker 1: I saw out of after high school. Um, I went
Speaker 1: to college for two years. Um after two years, you know,
Speaker 1: you have to start declaring a major and that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. And still wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Um.
Speaker 1: I had kind of become, you know, an agnostic like
Speaker 1: many people in those days, in the seventies, and I
Speaker 1: guess that still happens today, of course. So I got
Speaker 1: a job with the federal government, working full time for
Speaker 1: the Veterans Administration, and things seem to be going okay.
Speaker 1: I played to continue to play basketball after high school
Speaker 1: and that thing in men's league and whatnot. And I
Speaker 1: was kind of sick of academics after my second year
Speaker 1: of college, and so I took like a three year
Speaker 1: break from reading anything academic and I pretty much only
Speaker 1: read the sports page in the comics. Got yeah. And
Speaker 1: after about three years of that, it's like, oh, you
Speaker 1: better start getting on the ball. You're in your mid
Speaker 1: dumb in my mid twenties. You know, I got to
Speaker 1: get get going here, you know. So the background having
Speaker 1: so many different varied interest music, sports, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden year digging into this uh theological life.
Speaker 1: I mean, how'd that come about? Well, I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I can remember so clearly. In nineteen seventy two, the
Speaker 1: National Collegiate Championship Basketball Championship was in Saint Louis that year,
Speaker 1: I just watched it on TV, and I thought, isn't
Speaker 1: this great? And then it's like I heard this void,
Speaker 1: almost exterior voice say to me, but it was really
Speaker 1: me saying to myself, isn't there more to life than basketball?
Speaker 1: But I still didn't do anything with that for about
Speaker 1: three or three or four more years after that, and
Speaker 1: finally I thought, you know, I you know, I'd thrown
Speaker 1: off my Catholic background, but I thought, you know, there's
Speaker 1: got to be something to you know, in religion or
Speaker 1: philosophy that can give me more meaning to life. So
Speaker 1: I started with a clean slate and just started reading
Speaker 1: anything about philosophy and religion, even non Christian religions. And
Speaker 1: I remember in seventy seven, finally, about five years after
Speaker 1: I graduated from high school, when i'd go to a bookstore,
Speaker 1: I'd always go to the philosophy and religion section, and
Speaker 1: I saw a book with a kind of an odd
Speaker 1: face on the cover, and it said, is this the
Speaker 1: face of Jesus Christ? And it was a book about
Speaker 1: the shot of Turin, which I had never heard of,
Speaker 1: even though I had gone to Catholic school. I mean,
Speaker 1: we learned about Veronica's Vale, which is really a legend.
Speaker 1: It's not in the Bible, but supposedly some lady named
Speaker 1: Veronica had had a cloth and she met Jesus on
Speaker 1: his road to go golf and press the linen to
Speaker 1: his face, and it supposedly she got an image. And
Speaker 1: you know, long story shot on that. That's probably probably
Speaker 1: a story that was invented to explain that there was
Speaker 1: a linen cloth with an image on it. Now, the story,
Speaker 1: both the book and the story of Ronica only deal
Speaker 1: with the face, but the Shroud of Turin actually has
Speaker 1: a full front and back image. You know, he's about
Speaker 1: six feet tall, so you see the full front image
Speaker 1: and you see the full back image because the cloth
Speaker 1: is like fourteen feet long, so the body was presumably
Speaker 1: laid on, you know, one half of it, and then
Speaker 1: the other longer part of the cloth is big enough
Speaker 1: to fold over so that it covers fully the front
Speaker 1: and the back. So I took that book home that
Speaker 1: night and read it in one sitting, and I want
Speaker 1: to tell you, I was just fascinated. There wasn't a
Speaker 1: lot of evidence back then. I mean, it was the
Speaker 1: cloth was fairly well known in Europe, but not really
Speaker 1: not in the United States. I mean, there were only
Speaker 1: a couple books available in the United States, a few
Speaker 1: articles here and there, but based on the evidence back then,
Speaker 1: and that was only about a year year and a
Speaker 1: half before the group of American scientists called STIRP actually
Speaker 1: went over to touring and studied it for five days.
Speaker 1: And after that as when we got the big explosion
Speaker 1: of information that we still deal with today. But based
Speaker 1: on the scant evidence, relatively scant at the time, I
Speaker 1: thought the cloth that had a good chance of being authentic. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I looked at the bibliography and started, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, looking for articles and more books and things,
Speaker 1: and started keeping a collection. And you know, I started
Speaker 1: out with about seven articles and I thought, wow, look
Speaker 1: at this collection I'm getting it was virtually nothing. Today
Speaker 1: I probably do have one of the top one or
Speaker 1: two personal English language collection of shrawd materials in the world. Wow,
Speaker 1: so my whole basement is practically a shroud museum. Absolutely
Speaker 1: divinely guided. It sounds like, I mean, just like this
Speaker 1: was not popular in the United States and it inspired you,
Speaker 1: like down to the core. That's yeah. It just totally
Speaker 1: changed my life. It actually helped. It was a vehicle
Speaker 1: for me to actually come back, at least temporar early
Speaker 1: to my Catholic roots, and within about three years I
Speaker 1: joined a monastery in Saint Louis, where I managed to
Speaker 1: survive for eighteen and a half years. Yeah, that's amazing,
Speaker 1: eighteen and a half years. But I don't regret it
Speaker 1: because what happened was in nineteen ninety seven, I received
Speaker 1: a call from a woman from Ohio and she said
Speaker 1: that she claimed that she was having these um interactions
Speaker 1: with Jesus and stuff. And I'm open to that. I mean,
Speaker 1: you got to be careful. You can't. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't accept at face value when people say those things.
Speaker 1: You got to investigate it on a case by case basis.
Speaker 1: And she sounded normal, she didn't sound crazy, and so
Speaker 1: we started talking on the phone. She said she had
Speaker 1: survived childhood cancer and she was a weightlifter and but we,
Speaker 1: you know, we had we talked on the phone about
Speaker 1: spiritual things in the Shroud and we kind of just
Speaker 1: you know, made it a connection on the phone, and
Speaker 1: she was she said she had seen a program on
Speaker 1: the Shroud on TV and she wanted to learn more.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, we continued to talk and she
Speaker 1: actually sent me a picture from an article that was
Speaker 1: written about her in her hometown of Columbus. She had
Speaker 1: she was running two businesses out of her home. She
Speaker 1: had two young kids, um her her husband had left
Speaker 1: her a couple of years before that, and so she
Speaker 1: sent me an article that had a color picture of
Speaker 1: her in it. And you know, I had no idea
Speaker 1: what she looked like, how old she was. But we
Speaker 1: you know, we just had a good kind of spiritual
Speaker 1: connection right after that. And when when she sent me
Speaker 1: the article, I opened it and I can remember my
Speaker 1: exact words, which were, oh, because here was this too
Speaker 1: much to my surprise, here was this young looking, vivacious
Speaker 1: woman which did not match to Mike. You know, she
Speaker 1: said she had survived cancer, she was a powerlifter, and
Speaker 1: that picture of her just did not match to that
Speaker 1: at all. Another life changing moment. We gotta get to
Speaker 1: our next break, Joe. We're gonna be right back to finish.
Speaker 1: This is amazing, all right, You guys, don't forget to
Speaker 1: go to Heidi Hollis dot com or shadow Folks dot com.
Speaker 1: Tell me your stories, tell me what's on your mind
Speaker 1: out there, and tell me what your thoughts are about
Speaker 1: the shroud of tourist. As we continue our conversation with
Speaker 1: Joseph Marino. All right, you are listening to Dark Becomes
Speaker 1: Light with me Heidi Hollis, I Hurt Radio and Coach
Speaker 1: Coach Damn Paranormal Podcast. Stick around, Okay, right back, welcome back.
Speaker 1: You are listening to Dark Becomes Blight with me Heidi
Speaker 1: Hollis on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast Ay am
Speaker 1: Tera Normal podcast Network. I have a Joe Marino and
Speaker 1: he is telling us all about his really inspiring journey
Speaker 1: going from a sports loving music playing I'm sorry enthusiast,
Speaker 1: you wish that you could play, Yeah, exactly, but you
Speaker 1: didn't inherit that And then you came across this mother
Speaker 1: of two, single mother of two who has this fascination
Speaker 1: with a shrouded toura as yourself, which is a Sue Benford,
Speaker 1: and you're you're impressed by her photo and knew you
Speaker 1: were in trouble. Huh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh just came
Speaker 1: out and it's like, oh, I wasn't expecting this. And
Speaker 1: you know when you make a connection on one level
Speaker 1: with a person and then you add another, you know,
Speaker 1: big level like that. Yeah, you know you kind of
Speaker 1: know off the bat that things could cook, you know. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: how do you say Benedictine Benedictine monk. Yeah, yeah, that's um,
Speaker 1: that that's that's you know, surprising. I mean I think
Speaker 1: it surprises a lot of people. But you know, from
Speaker 1: more recent research myself and looking into uh various topics,
Speaker 1: I've found that there's a lot of former nuns and
Speaker 1: priests who you know, start another life, you know, as
Speaker 1: one phase of their life and they move on to another. Um.
Speaker 1: So how did things uh progress between the two of you. Well, um,
Speaker 1: she um actually asked if she could come out and
Speaker 1: visit me, and um, you know she did, and we
Speaker 1: eventually even met with my my personal spiritual director, who
Speaker 1: was a diocesan priest. UM and I still when I
Speaker 1: go back to Saint Louis usually every Christmas, I get
Speaker 1: together with him. And he was impressed by her too.
Speaker 1: But you know, he was advising me to be cautious
Speaker 1: and I think I was. And Sue came out several
Speaker 1: times and and you know, it wasn't it wasn't very
Speaker 1: long before I thought, you know, and we were connecting
Speaker 1: really a lot on the shroud level in terms of
Speaker 1: wanting to do research and stuff, and we had ideas
Speaker 1: for research and whatnot. And so she came out several times,
Speaker 1: and you know, even by say, by the second time,
Speaker 1: I was I already began to think that, you know,
Speaker 1: I could be in for a life change. And just
Speaker 1: weird things started happening. Some people call him godwink, some
Speaker 1: people call him synchronicities. But I want to tell you
Speaker 1: I just for almost every day for about a year,
Speaker 1: strange things would would happen that seemed to me, seemed
Speaker 1: to be drawing us closer together. And eventually I just
Speaker 1: my heart and conscience, even though it it surprised me
Speaker 1: as much as anybody else, my heart and conscience began
Speaker 1: to tell me that I actually needed to to leave
Speaker 1: the monastery and be with her. And that's what I
Speaker 1: ended up having happening. And I never regretted it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was tough. Um, you know, I'd expected to be
Speaker 1: in that monastery for the rest of my life and everything.
Speaker 1: But I remember the when I when I kind of
Speaker 1: reached the stage where I knew that I needed to
Speaker 1: do that. I want to see my spiritual director by myself,
Speaker 1: Father Tom, And I said, you know, he was kind
Speaker 1: of sup word of of it, and I was really
Speaker 1: kind of hoping he'd come up with a reason that
Speaker 1: I shouldn't do it, because I was kind of apprehensive
Speaker 1: about taking that step. And so eventually I knew I
Speaker 1: had to do it, and I've never regretted it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I eventually I lost Sue to cancer in two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, but we ended up doing really really significant
Speaker 1: SHROUD work that we would have never been able to
Speaker 1: have been to have accomplished. We stayed apart, I would say, honestly.
Speaker 1: I mean, you and Sue did research that saved SHROUD
Speaker 1: research to continue to this day. I mean, I wish
Speaker 1: that my show was longer sometimes that we could dive
Speaker 1: into all the details. But tell us about, you know
Speaker 1: how that came about, because so you've you've are so
Speaker 1: well published, and you're so well researched when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Strate of Turan and yourself and Sue quite
Speaker 1: the team you it. Tell us about some of the
Speaker 1: articles that you put out and how you helped turn
Speaker 1: a lot of heads and minds about you know, where
Speaker 1: the research should go. Okay, well, that's STIRP team that
Speaker 1: I mentioned in nineteen seventy eight. They studied the shroud
Speaker 1: for five days around the clock, and their main mission
Speaker 1: had been to try to figure out how the image
Speaker 1: got on the cloth, and they had the best science
Speaker 1: and technology available at the time. They had guys from
Speaker 1: NASA and Los Almost National Laboratory, Sandy National Laboratories. I mean,
Speaker 1: these guys, and there were a few women on a team.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give them short shrift, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the scientists on a team
Speaker 1: built bombs and help put men into space. And these
Speaker 1: were bright guys, you know. But they couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: how the image got on the shroud. So the evidence
Speaker 1: seemed to be pointing that it was unnatural event of
Speaker 1: some kind, and it had all the wounds. The man
Speaker 1: on the shroud has all the wounds that the Gospels
Speaker 1: described as having happened to Jesus. So there's that big
Speaker 1: Jesus connection. And Stirp concluded that it was not the
Speaker 1: product of an artist. Okay, they didn't they didn't know
Speaker 1: how it got on the cloth. So from seventy eight
Speaker 1: to eighty eight, you know, the world was above buzz
Speaker 1: with the idea that the shroud was probably authentic and
Speaker 1: then in nineteen eighty eight the church allowed a carbon
Speaker 1: fourteen dating radiocarbon dating, and that's a whole story in itself.
Speaker 1: I wrote an eight hundred page book on how things
Speaker 1: got screwed up with the test, and I put additional
Speaker 1: entries after the book was published, and those are available
Speaker 1: online on my academia page. There's just tons of information
Speaker 1: that things were just royally screwed up. But the bottom
Speaker 1: line was that the three labs said that the shroud
Speaker 1: dated to twelve sixty to thirteen ninety eight D, which
Speaker 1: means obviously that would be too late to have been
Speaker 1: Jesus's cloth. And by that time I had been studying
Speaker 1: the shroud eleven years, and I I just sort of
Speaker 1: knew that something had to be wrong with that C
Speaker 1: fourteen tests, and I wasn't sure at that time. So
Speaker 1: once I got together with Sue at one point, I
Speaker 1: came out into Ohio and in nineteen ninety eight, so
Speaker 1: about another ten years passed after the CEA fourteen, and
Speaker 1: during that period everybody was saying, oh, you know, the
Speaker 1: shroud was a fake and this and that, and I
Speaker 1: guess it was around two thousand year two thousand Sue
Speaker 1: got one of her kind of spiritual insights and was
Speaker 1: told that the that the area where they took the
Speaker 1: Sea fourteen sample from was a repair. So since I
Speaker 1: had such a great collection, she had me get out
Speaker 1: some of the better pictures of that corner and we
Speaker 1: started looking at it and stuff, and we thought we
Speaker 1: could see some um abnormalities in that area in different
Speaker 1: kind of the weavel would look different in places and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So we took some high quality photos
Speaker 1: and she literally took the photos to a tailor downtown
Speaker 1: in downtown Columbus. He was a French a European trained
Speaker 1: UM taylor, and she showed him the picture and did
Speaker 1: not tell him that it was from the shroud, And
Speaker 1: she says, what can you tell me about this photo?
Speaker 1: And basically he said, um, well, it looks like there's
Speaker 1: been some manipulation in the area. And we said, ah,
Speaker 1: that that sounds interesting. So then she sent the same
Speaker 1: photos to a couple of world renowned linen Um companies,
Speaker 1: one in in Um, Ireland and one in Albany, New York.
Speaker 1: And again we did we didn't tell him that it
Speaker 1: that it that it was the shroud. So they were
Speaker 1: blinded to it, and each each of those two also
Speaker 1: independently said in you know, different worlds, that basically that
Speaker 1: there was a repair of some kind. So we had
Speaker 1: three independent textile experts who were blinded to the fact
Speaker 1: that it was the shroud, all who have said that
Speaker 1: they thought they were repairs in the area. So there
Speaker 1: was going to be a big international conference in or Viato,
Speaker 1: Italy in August of two thousand and Before we had
Speaker 1: that idea about that, we hadn't planned to attend. But
Speaker 1: once we got that idea, we said, you know, we
Speaker 1: got to go to this conference and present the paper.
Speaker 1: So we did, and you know, several people told us
Speaker 1: that it was really the hit of the conference. And
Speaker 1: Barry Schwartz, who was the documenting photographers first Start and
Speaker 1: as the editor and publisher of the biggest and best
Speaker 1: shroud Side, which is shroud dot com, if you if
Speaker 1: your listeners go there, they better bring some food and
Speaker 1: snacks and drinks because you could spend the rest of
Speaker 1: your life there. Um. So Barry put it up there.
Speaker 1: And one of the guys on the Start team, whose
Speaker 1: name was Ray Rogers, he was the chemist, the head
Speaker 1: of the chemist Chemistry aspect of the testing for STIR.
Speaker 1: He had kind of gotten out of Shroud Research. He
Speaker 1: had accepted the nineteen eighty eight dating results, but he
Speaker 1: kept up with Barry site, and when he saw the
Speaker 1: paper on Barry side, he kind of he called Barry
Speaker 1: up and read him the Riot Act. Why are you
Speaker 1: publishing this nonsense? These people are part of the lunatic fringe.
Speaker 1: I can prove them, prove him wrong in five minutes,
Speaker 1: and Barry's as well. Well, Right, do what you need
Speaker 1: to do, because it was so fascinating that he was
Speaker 1: literally he had samples from nineteen seventy eight from the
Speaker 1: main part of the cloth. Okay, we got to hold
Speaker 1: it right there because I gotta get to our next break.
Speaker 1: You guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes Blight with
Speaker 1: me Heidi Hollis on the iHeart Radio and Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast am para normal podcast network. Stick around so we'll
Speaker 1: be right back with Lord Joe Marino. Welcome back. You
Speaker 1: are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis
Speaker 1: on the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast a am
Speaker 1: para normal podcast network. I have Joe Marino here, who
Speaker 1: is sharing about honestly probably one of the greatest finds
Speaker 1: in Shadow Terren's history, and not allowing the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: eight death to stand. And I watched to continue where
Speaker 1: you left off there, Yeah, because it's death. Fascinating how
Speaker 1: this came to be. Yeah. So Ray Rogers thought that
Speaker 1: he could prove our theory wrong because he had samples
Speaker 1: from the main part of the cloth from nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 1: and he had been given another point some samples that
Speaker 1: were right next to the C fourteen sample area, so
Speaker 1: he could compare the two and if they were exactly
Speaker 1: the same, that would show that there was no repair.
Speaker 1: So he got out his microscope and Barry said he called.
Speaker 1: He called Barry back about an hour and a half
Speaker 1: after he said it would take him five minutes, and
Speaker 1: he says, I can't believe it. I think they're right.
Speaker 1: He looked at both samples and he found that the
Speaker 1: area in the C fourteen corner was chemically different than
Speaker 1: the main part of the shroud. And then later on
Speaker 1: he was actually given a leftover sample from the actual
Speaker 1: Sea fourteen piece and that they had the same and
Speaker 1: they had the same characteristics as the you know area
Speaker 1: next to it. Which he had previously had, so they
Speaker 1: were different. And then he found he found like a
Speaker 1: dye and he found a splice linen and cotton thread,
Speaker 1: which means that cotton was used to repair that area
Speaker 1: and they used dye to make the color look exactly
Speaker 1: like the original. So then that kind of makes sense
Speaker 1: because a big chunk had been a big portion of
Speaker 1: that corner had been taken out for relics. And if
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a piece of linen and
Speaker 1: you have a big piece of it taken out, if
Speaker 1: you don't repair it or restore it, it unravels, So
Speaker 1: it makes sense that at least some repair work was
Speaker 1: done on it to tidy up the corners and where
Speaker 1: where it was cut. And Ray Rogers wrote a peri
Speaker 1: viewed scientific article in a high end chemical journal called
Speaker 1: Thermal Chemica Acta in January two thousand and five, and
Speaker 1: he said that that sample in the C fourteen area
Speaker 1: was different, and he gave some other details that we
Speaker 1: don't have time to go into now, but basically he
Speaker 1: said that the C. Fourteen sample was not valid for
Speaker 1: being able to determine the dating of the shrouds. So,
Speaker 1: in other words, that twelve to sixty to thirteen ninety
Speaker 1: date cannot be accepted because there was apparently it was
Speaker 1: a mixture of first century cloth and sixteenth century cloth.
Speaker 1: So that kind of jump started research to a degree
Speaker 1: back uh into the more research again. I mean people
Speaker 1: hadn't stopped completely, but that it really did give it
Speaker 1: a boost. And and you know it's been full steam ahead.
Speaker 1: And since then there's been statistical studies that show that
Speaker 1: the what the labs did with the data was a
Speaker 1: little um shall we say, manipulative. They didn't they didn't
Speaker 1: use all the dates, they threw out the bad dates
Speaker 1: and when they constructed their statistics to come up with
Speaker 1: a twelve sixty to thirteen ninety date with supposedly confidence, right,
Speaker 1: So wow, that's that's wild. I mean, all because Sue,
Speaker 1: your wife had a vision and and that kind of
Speaker 1: gets skipped over. Do you find uh in the research?
Speaker 1: You know, like you two having brought the attention to
Speaker 1: have a look at that, you know what you what
Speaker 1: you discovered and uh, but they like the nuts and bolts.
Speaker 1: They don't like spiritual insight. But God still talks everybody
Speaker 1: and this is still around and it's like that is uh,
Speaker 1: it's so amazing. And I've seen a couple of shows
Speaker 1: that has you and Sue speaking of your discovery and
Speaker 1: getting the credit that you deserve, but not getting the
Speaker 1: opportunity to speak to uh it having come from a vision, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: people do have problems with that. Um, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just one of those things of human nature
Speaker 1: that some things make us uncomfortable. And you know people
Speaker 1: that supposedly get spiritual insights or yeah, or one of them,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, people pretty just pretty much ignore that.
Speaker 1: It's amazing you having the background that you that you
Speaker 1: do as a as a monk and being open to that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's inspiring right there, because I'm a
Speaker 1: firm believer that you know, we all get guidance and
Speaker 1: you know, it's whether we pay attention to it or not.
Speaker 1: And because she did and you both having the know
Speaker 1: how and understanding of the shout a trend that this
Speaker 1: was something important to pursue. And yeah, I mean do
Speaker 1: you find though too that I have that uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's still having to prove to people that the carbon
Speaker 1: dating was was wrong. I mean do you feel like
Speaker 1: sort cover that up, patch that up? Yeah? Um, there's
Speaker 1: tons of still tons of YouTube videos and all sorts
Speaker 1: of things where people do not want to have an
Speaker 1: authentic shroud because, um the repercussions of that are scary
Speaker 1: for them if especially if they're agnostic or atheists. Um,
Speaker 1: so they do everything in their power to try to
Speaker 1: u prove it. And nobody has been able to come
Speaker 1: up with a reasonable explanation of how that image got
Speaker 1: on the class So they just they give a lot
Speaker 1: of half truths and falsehoods and continue to try to
Speaker 1: say it's nonsense. That's a shame because it is a
Speaker 1: common uh discussion honestly, and I'm just like, I don't understand. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the erasing um Christ having been such a
Speaker 1: huge marker on the history of this planet is absolutely
Speaker 1: in motion all the time. I mean, it's BC is
Speaker 1: no longer before Christ, It's before the common Era, you know,
Speaker 1: it's BC. You know, you know, it's like, why do that?
Speaker 1: And one of my favorite arguments I would love to
Speaker 1: tell my friends who you know, don't believe Jesus is
Speaker 1: it was a big deal. I'm like, oh, what's the
Speaker 1: what's the year again? You know, we we marked our
Speaker 1: calendars our years to the day of him. Having passed
Speaker 1: because he wasn't is a big deal. Yeah, and you'll
Speaker 1: probably have noticed, like I have that it's amazing how
Speaker 1: how many videos and articles and different sites try to
Speaker 1: put forth the idea that Jesus never even existed. I
Speaker 1: mean they did, that's how far they take it. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's kind of silly because I mean,
Speaker 1: he's he's probably the best attested ancient figure in history,
Speaker 1: but because of the religious connections, people try to totally
Speaker 1: erase him from history and say he never existed. But
Speaker 1: you know, the main obviously those are kind of people
Speaker 1: not in the main I guess there's a few in
Speaker 1: the mainstream, but um yeah, it's just it's just the
Speaker 1: world we live in today that people don't want to
Speaker 1: real Shroud and they don't want to real us either. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's just uh yeah, it's a it's a shame. But
Speaker 1: first first name out of their mouths when they're in
Speaker 1: trouble though, you know, my goodness, you know, where is
Speaker 1: the where's the research going? Now? I mean you're always
Speaker 1: updating something. I think I got to notice on my
Speaker 1: phone just now Joe Marino updated something on Academia dot edu.
Speaker 1: I mean, you are constantly working, you're constantly uh, you know,
Speaker 1: pulling in new facts and figures. Where are things going now? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean people are obviously, um
Speaker 1: wondering if if any new testing will be allowed, whether
Speaker 1: there'll be another C fourteen test or I kind of
Speaker 1: doubt if they'll ever be another C fourteen test, um,
Speaker 1: partly because we don't you know, we haven't worked out
Speaker 1: all the bugs on the old on that system, on
Speaker 1: the C fourteen testing already, and then there's new new
Speaker 1: dating methods out and those need a lot of work too.
Speaker 1: But I've heard that even though Pope Francis has background
Speaker 1: in chemistry, um, my sources tell me that there'll be
Speaker 1: no new testing as long as he's Pope. But you
Speaker 1: know he's I think he's what eighty six or something now,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know how much longer he'll
Speaker 1: be around. But perhaps the next the next Pope will
Speaker 1: allow testing. But you know, one of the amazing things
Speaker 1: about the in my eight hundred page book is the
Speaker 1: fact that Cardinal Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict the sixteenth,
Speaker 1: he actually had allowed, he had approved rather uh stirp
Speaker 1: to have two weeks with the Shroud, including a C
Speaker 1: fourteen test, and a lot of the politics and backstabbings
Speaker 1: and agenda's got in the way, and STIRP was eliminated
Speaker 1: from not only doing their new test of multidisciplinary aspects,
Speaker 1: but they weren't even allowed to be involved in the
Speaker 1: C fourteen test, which was part of the reason there
Speaker 1: was a fiasco there. That's a shame. Well, Joe, we've
Speaker 1: got to wrap it up. How how can people get
Speaker 1: ahold of your books, your works? What's your website? My
Speaker 1: website is homestead dot com Slash new Vista's all right, Well,
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 1: the program today. This was really insightful, inspiring. Oh I
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Thanks for having me for sure. Now be
Speaker 1: sure to go to Amazon dot com and look for
Speaker 1: Joseph G. Marino for his twenty twenty updated new version
Speaker 1: of his book and his other book. All Right, you guys,
Speaker 1: don't forget to go to Heidi Hollis dot com or
Speaker 1: shadow folks dot com. Tell me your stories, tell me
Speaker 1: what's going on out there in the world. Tell me
Speaker 1: your thoughts, your questions, your experiences. I don't care. Throw
Speaker 1: it my way, and we will take a look at
Speaker 1: it and dissect it. Because every other show, what do
Speaker 1: we do. We take your emails and your phone calls
Speaker 1: if you care to jump on an interview. I'm just
Speaker 1: joking you guys never ever do that, so you're welcome.
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow me on social media at one
Speaker 1: Heidi Hollis. That is Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, everything but YouTube,
Speaker 1: which is just Kidi Hollis. All right, and be sure
Speaker 1: to go to the Outlanders Comic dot com for my
Speaker 1: paranormal comic strip. We have come to the bottom of
Speaker 1: another fabulous program. You have been listening to Dark Becomes
Speaker 1: Light with me Heidi Hollis on iHeartRadio and Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast ay AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Hey,
Speaker 1: thank for everybody. Goodbye. Well, if you like this edition
Speaker 1: of Dark Comes Light, wait till you hear the next one.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 1: AM Paranormal Podcast Network.