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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render, where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear,

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Speaker 1: American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed

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Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the places. We explore. What's

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Speaker 1: your phone with silent alban because you know we'll go

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Speaker 1: off album. What kind of wood are we burning? There?

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Speaker 1: That right there? I think that's some hackberry bigger stumps.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting around a hackberry fire. It's November the third

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Speaker 1: and we're in southeast so Lahoma. And you may have

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Speaker 1: heard of one week in November which is meat Eaters,

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Speaker 1: Meat Eaters Whitetail Show. We're down here whitetail hunt and uh,

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Speaker 1: I've got a very eclectic group of guests, um that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce individually, Cherry. Do you know that

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Speaker 1: typically the Beargrease Render, which that's what this is. This

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Speaker 1: is the Render, So Beargrease podcast is where we where

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Speaker 1: we have a documentary style, big, robust story. The render

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Speaker 1: is where we just gather up a group of people

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Speaker 1: that talk about it. Typically there's there's one group of people,

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Speaker 1: which is my wife Brent Reeves, who now we all

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Speaker 1: suspect we're we're we're we're curious of his reasons for

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Speaker 1: being my friend, uh, my dad, um Josh Spellmaker, Misty Nukam,

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Speaker 1: my lovely wife. And then a sixth person that bounces

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Speaker 1: around from a lot of different people. For the last

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Speaker 1: several weeks, I've been on the road and so I've

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Speaker 1: been having renders with all kinds of different people, and

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Speaker 1: you get really people like that, but they're but there.

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Speaker 1: They also like the regular crew. So anyway, it's it's

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Speaker 1: good to be in southeast Oklahoma. I'm I'm being really

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Speaker 1: hosted here by Alvin and Sherry grigg Man. Alvin, I

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Speaker 1: was trying to think we met. I actually I almost

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Speaker 1: know exactly how long ago. It was seven years ago

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Speaker 1: because Fern, my plot coon hound, is eight years she'll

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Speaker 1: be eight on November eleven. And she was about a

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Speaker 1: year old, and she was a year and a half old. No,

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Speaker 1: she was younger than that she was. She was he

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Speaker 1: hadn't really even started in the woods yet. Really, you

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Speaker 1: called me because I had some uh Steve Hurdge bloodline

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Speaker 1: and bluff Creek and and actually actually the one we

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Speaker 1: had with Sherry's dog. But anyways, and Steve would give

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Speaker 1: you my number, and I remember she was she hadn't

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Speaker 1: really I mean, I just say she was x raight

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Speaker 1: months old. You know you started fooling with her, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think you'd actually been. I remember her first

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Speaker 1: cone she had treated Remember tell me remember telling well,

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Speaker 1: I want to come back to that. I'm gonna introduce everybody,

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Speaker 1: but that's a big story and I want to tell it.

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Speaker 1: Alvin and Sherry, Grig Cherry say hi to everybody. Great Cherry,

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Speaker 1: it's this is gonna be fun having you on here.

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Speaker 1: So there to my right, directly to their left is

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Speaker 1: big dirty Dave Gardner. Dave, good to see man, good

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Speaker 1: to be here. This is your first time on the render, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: first time caller, a longtime listener. Everybody here thinks Dave

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Speaker 1: looks like Dale Brisbee, so got the big stash and

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Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, so Dave, tell us what you do.

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Speaker 1: I'm a photographer and camera guy. Yeah, me and Dave

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Speaker 1: have been we were counting today. We've been on five

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Speaker 1: shoots together. So you know, shoots that like last over

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Speaker 1: a week usually, so We've spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: like standing like uncomfortably those together in a tree, a

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Speaker 1: tree together. Right. Uh, well, we're gonna get back to you.

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Speaker 1: Dave to my left, Brian Ringles, also known as Rhino Man,

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Speaker 1: you're the first official ferrier, real live fairier that we've

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Speaker 1: had on the podcast, and I got some questions for you,

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Speaker 1: all right, I guess some answers. Good fairiers have a

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Speaker 1: lot of answers. I found that it may not be

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Speaker 1: fairiers that are passionate people, but the people that are

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Speaker 1: around farriers and equine people. Man, they see you doing

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Speaker 1: anything on a horse or mule hoof, you get a

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Speaker 1: lot of opinions, don't you. Yes, sir, very money? So

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Speaker 1: how long you've been chewing horses? I've been full time

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Speaker 1: eight years in this coming February eight years? Is that

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Speaker 1: a good profession? Being? It's been good to me. I

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Speaker 1: wish I would have started it when I was twenty

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Speaker 1: and stead thirty or forty, but but yes, it's been

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Speaker 1: real good to me. Yeah. Do you shoot Alvin's horses

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Speaker 1: I have in the pass? Yes? Do you shoot your

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Speaker 1: own horses? Alvin? No? I tried one time. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna shoot my own and all I got was fronts.

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Speaker 1: All I got was fronts. Yeah, as far as I

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Speaker 1: made it. Well, we're gonna have to come back to

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Speaker 1: the to the horse shoeing thing, all right, because I

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Speaker 1: got I got some questions, but I gotta finish. My

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Speaker 1: introduction to your left is Brian Jumpy. Yep, Brian, tell

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Speaker 1: us what you do. I'm the Coke County Sheriff, Cold County, Oklahoma. Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: you're the sheriff. Yes, we called in the law for

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Speaker 1: this man called outlaw. Well we had to. We had

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Speaker 1: to call him the law to talk about the outlaws.

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Speaker 1: How long you've been sheriff over here? Uh? Ten years?

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Speaker 1: I've been sheriff for ten years and uh been a

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Speaker 1: law enforcement seventeen Okay, And so being a sheriff is

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Speaker 1: an elected position. Yes, so you gotta be a politician.

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Speaker 1: I'm not too good of a politician, but good enough

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Speaker 1: to win an election. You know this is like I'm

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Speaker 1: a grown man and know this, but I've never really

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Speaker 1: heard anybody explain it. You have city police departments that

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Speaker 1: govern have jurisdiction inside of cities, and then sheriff departments

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Speaker 1: have jurisdictions inside of counties, and so they're taking care

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Speaker 1: of rural issues and rural people that aren't don't have

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Speaker 1: a specific assignment to a to a to a city.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Right? We also work the city too.

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Speaker 1: We have jurisdiction in the whole county. Okay. Is there

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Speaker 1: anything that specific that a sheriff would do that just

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Speaker 1: like a city police officer wouldn't do, like types of

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Speaker 1: crimes or is it not? It's all but the same,

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Speaker 1: just all about the same. What what would you say?

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Speaker 1: You spend most of your time doing as sheriff, paperwork,

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Speaker 1: office work, budget meetings. Really don't spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time on the street, no more so. You're managing people,

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Speaker 1: managing the whole outfit. Is that? Is that good or bad?

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Speaker 1: Just got us good days and bad days, a lot

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Speaker 1: of bad days on it. But you're you're either on

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Speaker 1: top of the world on or on bottom. Yeah, snow

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Speaker 1: in between. Yeah, it's either going really good or really bad. Alvin,

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Speaker 1: how long have you known Brian? They call him Jumpy.

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Speaker 1: I hesitated known him my entire life, and we've been

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Speaker 1: great friends for probably ninety five six about. We've been

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Speaker 1: a really close friends since then. But I've known him

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Speaker 1: when I was a little baby kid, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, how you were gonna? You were? You

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Speaker 1: told me you you had a interesting entry point into

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. How how did you get into it? Ask

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Speaker 1: him A long story. I don't know if you've got

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Speaker 1: time to hear all of it. Yeah, we do. But

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Speaker 1: I never got a long good with law enforcement of

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Speaker 1: my whole life. And when I was about thirty four

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Speaker 1: years old, I had a buddy that was in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement and he come knocking on my door one day.

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Speaker 1: No open a door, and seeing my buddy he's standing

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Speaker 1: there in uniform, I thought, oh, that's this can't be good,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I said, what are you doing here? Jerry?

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Speaker 1: He tells me he said, well, we got a job

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Speaker 1: opening down here and see police and thought you got

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Speaker 1: the right temperament to make a good cop once you

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Speaker 1: put your application in. So now, said Jerry, I don't

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Speaker 1: even like cops. You said, I don't. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I want to be one. He goes, well, just come

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Speaker 1: out and ride with us a couple of weekends and

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Speaker 1: see if you like it. I got to riding with

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Speaker 1: him on the weekends. I got to lacking it. I

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Speaker 1: thought back in was all hog hunting a lot, so

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Speaker 1: this is a whole lot like hog hunting. You go

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Speaker 1: catch a bad guy, tie him up and throw him

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Speaker 1: in a pin like like we catch a hog, tie

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Speaker 1: up and throw the hog in a pin, keep him

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Speaker 1: and then uh, I eventually got hired on. It took

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Speaker 1: a while I get hired on't when I got hired

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Speaker 1: on about a year later. That's thirty five as well,

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Speaker 1: like RT. Yeah, and uh, I thought, man, that's gonna

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Speaker 1: be the best job ever. I'll be able to work

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Speaker 1: evening shift in the after work on coon hunt all night. Hmm.

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Speaker 1: Now coon hunt all night and I sleep biggest part

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Speaker 1: a day and get up and go to work and

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Speaker 1: catch bad guys and go coon hing again. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like a good plan. It's a good plan. It didn't

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Speaker 1: work out that good, though. If you had any guesses

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Speaker 1: of why this sheriff is the first sheriff on the

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Speaker 1: burgarys Render podcast, you've just heard why this man's a

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Speaker 1: coon hunter hog hunter? It used to be a carry on. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's really about it. I got I got started, and

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Speaker 1: when I got started good, I thought, well, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be sheriff one day. Really, So that that was like

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Speaker 1: a career ambition. You were like, I want to be

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Speaker 1: the sheriff, and here I am. So what's it take

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Speaker 1: to be a good chriff? Patience? You know, you gotta

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Speaker 1: have good deputies, your deputies. This is what makes a

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Speaker 1: good cheer. You ain't got good deputies, you don't have

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Speaker 1: a good cheer, right, yeah, yeah, So you got to

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Speaker 1: manage your team, right. How many deputies do you have

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Speaker 1: here in this county? I usually have about nine. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure handed right now because I've had to get rid

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Speaker 1: of some of them. Yeah, big Dave, you got any

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Speaker 1: questions for for Brian? Any law enforcement questions? Actually we

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Speaker 1: were talking about this earlier, Clay. Uh. Now, why if

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Speaker 1: you were pull somebody over and you're looking at their

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Speaker 1: license and registration, would you ask them to come and

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Speaker 1: sit in the front seat of a car with him?

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Speaker 1: Depends on the person. If you look like a shady

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Speaker 1: individual and I thought you or if I thought you

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Speaker 1: was holding dope or been drinking and bat you back

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Speaker 1: to the car. A lot of times to sit in

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Speaker 1: the car with a sit in a car with me.

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Speaker 1: They train you not to do that, but that's a

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Speaker 1: good way to get him in a car. And go

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Speaker 1: talking to him. You can smell alcohol on them where,

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Speaker 1: you know, get talking to him and my hasn't open

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Speaker 1: the pocket, can talk him how the dope probably get

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Speaker 1: a little more nervous sitting back there with you, don't

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Speaker 1: you know. So tell him your story. And I mean

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Speaker 1: basically me and had had the same story. Just had

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Speaker 1: random like a totally normal traffic stop. Go ahead. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just working a gig one night. I was

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Speaker 1: filming filming a show and on the way out of there,

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Speaker 1: I rolled through a stop sign and sure enough, there's

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Speaker 1: a copyright there. And yeah, he asked me to come

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Speaker 1: and sit in the front suite of his car while

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Speaker 1: he was checking my license and registration insurance. And then

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Speaker 1: he didn't even give you a ticket, didn't even give

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Speaker 1: me a ticket, let me off with the warning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nice guy. It was the Mullet bill. It was now

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Speaker 1: I had the same thing happened, and uh, I think

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Speaker 1: I was in South Dakota and had a state trooper

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Speaker 1: pulled me over the middle of the day. I was

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Speaker 1: going just a few miles over the speed limit and

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Speaker 1: he he was he was real nice and we've been

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Speaker 1: hunting in Canada and he was he was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you were going a few miles over, no big deal,

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Speaker 1: but we like to keep it, you know, right there

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Speaker 1: on the limit. And gave him everything and he was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: come sitting in the car with me. And I was

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Speaker 1: just like it kind of wigged me out. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what are we doing here? Man? And anyway, he just

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Speaker 1: and when I got the car, he just we talked

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Speaker 1: about hunting for like twenty minutes in his car. Probably

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Speaker 1: a fan. No, no, this was some years ago. This

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Speaker 1: was years ago, years ago. But it's checking me out.

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Speaker 1: He didn't just want to chat with me. He had suspicions.

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Speaker 1: I'll be done. What's what's the main thing going on

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Speaker 1: around here that you guys are enforcing in terms of

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Speaker 1: the law, Uh, drugs and stealing, just theft and drugs

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Speaker 1: they go hand in hand. Really yeah, yeah, that Germaine

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Speaker 1: crimes tround here Staffton drugs, theft and drugs. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting. I look forward to hearing your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on r T. I gotta tell you guys the story.

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Speaker 1: RT called me on the way here, like after dark,

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Speaker 1: driving here and r T. You know, I mean, in

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Speaker 1: our conversation, like we're it see we're just like buddies,

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Speaker 1: you know, talking. But it surprised me to see his

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Speaker 1: name come up on my on my on my phone

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Speaker 1: and uh so I picked it up and he's he

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Speaker 1: I should have known he was trying to get me.

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Speaker 1: But he said, Clay, how you doing man? And he

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Speaker 1: was real serious and I said, I'm doing good. He said,

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Speaker 1: I got a problem. This is the first time he's

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Speaker 1: called me since the podcast came out. He said, I

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Speaker 1: got a problem. And I said, oh man, that's not good.

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Speaker 1: What what's going on? And he said, man, ever since

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Speaker 1: that podcast came out, I've been getting threats. I've uh,

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Speaker 1: I've already got one, two, three, four, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: I just was thinking, oh no, I've got this guy

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Speaker 1: in trouble. And uh he let me thank it for

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Speaker 1: a minute and then he was like, clut. You know,

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Speaker 1: I made a living lying, right, And then he started

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Speaker 1: laughing and he he had some guys in there that

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Speaker 1: was he has a he has a he's an outfitter,

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Speaker 1: and he had a bunch of guys hunting with him.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, and outfit, now, yeah, he is, he sure is.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust him. He lies. Yep. Hey, y'all are

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Speaker 1: all hog hunting buddies. And that's the reason I know

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Speaker 1: Alvin is Uh is from hounds and Uh. I've said

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Speaker 1: this to Alvin before, but I'll say it again. I Alvin,

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Speaker 1: what little I know about hounds, A lot of it

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Speaker 1: came from talking to album. Now, we've never hound hunted together.

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Speaker 1: Y'all have come up and squirrel hunted with me. We

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Speaker 1: we've never I've never heard hunted with you. But that

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Speaker 1: going back to our original conversation of when we met.

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Speaker 1: I had called you about trying to get a plot

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Speaker 1: and UH and you we talked on the phone for

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Speaker 1: basically the first two years of Ferns life. I was

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Speaker 1: giving you the play by play what she was doing,

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Speaker 1: and Uh, you were really good at articulating the hound world.

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Speaker 1: The first first time we made you when you come

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Speaker 1: to dog pain, well that's the first time I would

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Speaker 1: have seen you get talking about these dogs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit here and say, yeah, I told to

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Speaker 1: you every thing. You know what, if you any questions

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Speaker 1: you asked me, if I felt like I had to

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Speaker 1: answer you know, I would try to do the best

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Speaker 1: I could do to answer you know what. I mean

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff you were saying, you know, might

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Speaker 1: have been some of the first experiences you had. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know you came hunt before, but some of the

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Speaker 1: stuff you were explaining to me, you know, I had

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Speaker 1: seen before, and I was like, well, I think this

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Speaker 1: is actually what's going on. You know, don't be too

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Speaker 1: concerned about it or whatever. You know, it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of general conversation that I have with anybody, or you'd

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Speaker 1: have with anybody if you knew. Yeah, and y'all do this.

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Speaker 1: This is hog country, man. They're pretty much hogs all

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Speaker 1: over this part of the world pretty much. Brian, tell

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Speaker 1: me how Tell me about your schedule as a fairer,

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Speaker 1: Like how many how many horses are you shooting every day? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I try to keep it if I'm shooting something all

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Speaker 1: the way around, you know, in the five or six

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Speaker 1: a day range, and then if I'm trimming, I'll try

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Speaker 1: to cut it off around twenty, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty. I keep most of my clients on

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Speaker 1: a six weeks rotating schedule. Six weeks rotating schedule. You

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Speaker 1: gotta have a tight schedule. I mean you you you

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Speaker 1: gotta manage it to get people in there, and and

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Speaker 1: and that seems like a the ferriers I've worked with,

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Speaker 1: that's been a challenge for me to be to fit

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Speaker 1: their schedule. It can be tough. You know, you got

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Speaker 1: a joke. Life happens to everybody, So you gotta juggle

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Speaker 1: all of their schedules into yours, you know. I mean

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Speaker 1: they have families, things come up, dr appointments, what have you.

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Speaker 1: You know, so you're gonna gotta juggle all that. But

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Speaker 1: it's it's doable. Yeah. Um so I trim just the

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Speaker 1: front feet of my mule. Back feet typically stay pretty tight.

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Speaker 1: Is that okay? That I don't ever trim our back feet? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You You normally won't have as much trouble with the

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Speaker 1: back feet because the horse carries six sevent of their

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Speaker 1: weight on the front end. Uh, the majority of your

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Speaker 1: problems come in the front. You know. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: you never need to trim the back, but it's generally

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Speaker 1: doesn't The problems won't show up there as quickly. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of like the front tires on your truck wearing

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Speaker 1: out before the back tires. Yeah, you buy new tires.

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Speaker 1: You put them on the front and put th old

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Speaker 1: was on the back. That's just buy two at a time.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That's the way y'all do it here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Alvin tell me and Sherry, Sherry, Never in

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Speaker 1: my life have I heard Sherry grig not talk in

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Speaker 1: like a span as long as we've heard that. So Sherry,

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Speaker 1: I need to hear from you too. There's two things

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Speaker 1: that you should never put on social media. Two things.

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Speaker 1: One of them is anything that has to do with

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Speaker 1: bee keeping. Okay, if you have a bee hive, keep

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Speaker 1: it to yourself. No, no, I mean no, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they'll steal it. You will get more advice

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Speaker 1: than you know what to do. With passionate advice. Beekeepers

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Speaker 1: are the most passionate people. They'll they'll stalk you, they'll

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Speaker 1: want to come to your house, they'll private message you

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Speaker 1: from like every angle possible to try to get you

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Speaker 1: to tell you, you know, like this thing you're doing.

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Speaker 1: They're passionate people. And then the other group is horse people.

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Speaker 1: So I had a couple of videos just I mean, man,

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Speaker 1: I had a farrier that was coming to my house.

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Speaker 1: He came probably four times and and just random times

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Speaker 1: to put shoes on my mule when I was going

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Speaker 1: out west. And he was a real nice guy, and

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Speaker 1: he was just like Clay, you ought to be able

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Speaker 1: to do this yourself, he said, I'll teach you how

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Speaker 1: to do it. And so he just showed me how

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Speaker 1: to trim her feet and how to put shoes on

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Speaker 1: her a couple of times, and I just watched him

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Speaker 1: and ask questions. So ever since then, I've done it

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Speaker 1: myself and so I put randomly, we'll put a little

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Speaker 1: video up of me trimming. Is these feet right? And

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Speaker 1: it's it's like the sky fell people people going wild.

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Speaker 1: I need to show you that video. Tell me if

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Speaker 1: I'm making a train wreck. Well, she still, she's still sam,

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Speaker 1: She's still going, and you're doing something right. A little

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Speaker 1: bit on social media you can push block and you've

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Speaker 1: listen to crap. I hear you. So, Sherry, tell me

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Speaker 1: about your dogs. What kind of dogs do you have?

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Speaker 1: Plot hound in the Corky plot in a corky Tell

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Speaker 1: me tell me about your dogs. I love my dogs

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Speaker 1: are awesome. What what's the bloodline like in your hog

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Speaker 1: hunting with them? What? What tell me about them? A

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Speaker 1: lot on our bloodline, aren't They were off across We

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Speaker 1: got some dough. I got a female from Jerry Gas now,

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Speaker 1: several years ago, she would have been about she's alive,

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Speaker 1: she'd have been about ten probably. She's Jeep's mama and

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Speaker 1: Jeep is uh fixing me eight, So yeah, she'd have

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Speaker 1: been about ten probably, if she's still alive. And pretty

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Speaker 1: much everything I got, I mean, we can trace it

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Speaker 1: back to her, you know, I mean yeah, and uh

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Speaker 1: we pretty much bred her offspring, you know, to outside males,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then bread them back to our dogs

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Speaker 1: and some mom's family tree. Don't forecat awful good, but

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Speaker 1: it's well, that's what I think works good. You're the

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Speaker 1: name of your kennel. What's on the papers of all

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Speaker 1: your plots is how do you pronounce that? That's the

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Speaker 1: name of this community right now. When it was Indian Territory,

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Speaker 1: when uh it was in in territory, this was called Okeney.

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Speaker 1: And when we share her first moved here, which moved here,

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Speaker 1: I uh several years ago. There used to be a

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Speaker 1: little school that was down there, and they moved it

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Speaker 1: over to Clarita. And it's right down here to corner

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Speaker 1: if you go straight north right here at our place.

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Speaker 1: The county road curves in that corner right there. Was

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Speaker 1: considered opening there was a school there and it stood

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Speaker 1: there for several years until a few years from me

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Speaker 1: and sure I got married, they moved it over here

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Speaker 1: to Clarita. It's it has since fall out and everything,

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Speaker 1: but there's actually still a graveyard back in there. And

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Speaker 1: he moved here. I'll love here since twelve. Surely you

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Speaker 1: live right in this area just with my mom and

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Speaker 1: dad's place. And we lived next door and tell my

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Speaker 1: mom dad passed away, got married, we bought the place

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Speaker 1: that John's next to here. Okay, yeah, and I've lived

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Speaker 1: here with her, Sherry for twenty years, but she's lived

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Speaker 1: here like safe for five. Let's don't talk about that.

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Speaker 1: So hey, Alan described for me the the plothound world,

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Speaker 1: like like these guys like Roy Clark, like a lot

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Speaker 1: of people would have heard me talk about Roy Clark

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Speaker 1: in East Tennessee that has Laurel Mountain plots and then

390
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: but you have the same thing going here with you.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is described described kind of like how

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Speaker 1: how groups with these line bred people are. People want

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Speaker 1: their their stuff, and their stuff's the best, and they

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Speaker 1: don't like to outsources. Well it's not so much the best,

395
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Speaker 1: it's just that I mean there's so many when you're

396
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Speaker 1: raising dogs, there's so many pups in a litter, you know,

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Speaker 1: you obviously can't keep them all, and you want to

398
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Speaker 1: know what they do and how they performed to kind

399
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Speaker 1: of keep kind of quality control on your on your product.

400
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Speaker 1: You know, what you're what you're producing, what the bloodline

401
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: is producing, you know, and everything. And you kind of

402
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: get you get you small circles, some guys you can trust,

403
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, and and and uh and you just kind

404
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: of share your dogs, you know, and that's just kind

405
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: of way you do it. And it's on I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just a blueprint of what Row has done, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to do. I mean, he's as good

408
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: as it gets, you know, far a drumcer, and he's

409
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Speaker 1: a legend in the sport, you know, and and breeding

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Speaker 1: and hunting and everything. And and you see how he's

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Speaker 1: done it. You know, he said it more than once

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Speaker 1: on your podcast. He couldn't do it myself because it's

413
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: just so many dogs, you know, and take so many people,

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Speaker 1: you know, to keep it going. And and he's got

415
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Speaker 1: him a small, tighten knit group and and there we're

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Speaker 1: all working together, you know, and that's that's the only

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00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: way you can do it. One guy can't feed sixty head,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it takes literally takes nearly that many

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Speaker 1: dogs to really get a good thing going, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, And Brian Ringles and Jump, he's

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Speaker 1: had some of my dogs, and then I've got some

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00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: more friends around here. You know, it's had some And

423
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: that's that's just the way I've tried hard. In Wisconsin.

424
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: I got Wisconsin. You go up to Wisconsin hunting in

425
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: different parts of the country, baron, baron hog Wisconsin in

426
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: different places. They come down every year to our Wisconsin buddies. Yeah, hunting. Yeah, okay,

427
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: why plot hounds sell me? Oh, don't get its started.

428
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: I wanted, I wanted. I wanted this dog a long

429
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: time for he didn't He would get me one until

430
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: he wanted one. Oh really, you want to plot hounds first? Really? Yea?

431
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: Did come on? Tell me I didn't know out there

432
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: staying in West Virginia and Hitt knew. Yeah, that's she

433
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: wanted the one when I was was uh had card

434
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: dogs and crossbred dogs. You know. She always like the

435
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: plots bring on color, you know, And I did too,

436
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, did she just like it

437
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: because of the color. I just want on. I was raised,

438
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: my brother hunted all my life and hounds all accounts,

439
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: and I like it that I think the pretty. And

440
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: we was staying out in West Virginia for a while

441
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: and I got noticing one and more of them out there.

442
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 1: Didn't have any idea about them. I just wanted one.

443
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: And truth is, I mean, yes, that's pretty much how

444
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: it worked out. I mean I was out there, you know,

445
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: and I met some hound hunters, didn't really hunt with

446
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 1: anybody out there, and met some hound hunters around there,

447
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: and plots were pretty popular out there, you know. And

448
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: I got to send them around there and and got

449
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: a few phone numbers some people, you know, and and

450
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: she more or less talked man to it, you know.

451
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: And and the first one I had is pretty good

452
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: when it comes from Eugene Walker. It was a Pocahona's plot.

453
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: Liked her and got something from Curtis Walker, you know,

454
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: you went and met him, and and then I just

455
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: got started trying different bloodlines. And then I got really

456
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: intrigued with how how each bloodline was like a breed

457
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: all in itself, you know what I mean, just like

458
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: you could take a like Curtis Walker's dogs were nothing

459
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: like Eugenes, and they were still plots, you know, just

460
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: they've just been bred different for yous. You heard to

461
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: find it, you can tell Steve Heard dog just looking

462
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: at it, and it got interesting. It really got interesting

463
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: to me. That's when I got into the kind of

464
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: the breeding aspect of it. I kind of got interesting

465
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: to me. But because how people could literally mold something

466
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: to themselves, you know what I mean, It's like to

467
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: fit the style exactly. Yeah, you could take you know,

468
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it just got interesting and I just got

469
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: consumed with it, you know, and I just just all

470
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: worked out. Okay, Thank you, Sherry, because I was gonna say,

471
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: Alvin is the one that really sold me on plots

472
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: even after I had one, because I got a plot

473
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: almost on accident. Steve Heard and U, um, the dog

474
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: what was the dog's name? Gunner? Bear Path, Gunner bear Path, Gunner.

475
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: First dog that we ever did a legendary barehound article

476
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: in for bare Honting magazine completely coincidentally was about Steve

477
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: Heard's dog, bear Path Gunner. I mean, just totally random,

478
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: and I got to know Eve my kids were the

479
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: right age they needed a dog. We had gone years

480
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: without having a dog, and they were just right for

481
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: a dog. And uh so I ended up getting what

482
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: I believe was a kind of a a dog that

483
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: didn't make the cut for what Steve wanted, to be

484
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: honest with you, because I told him, I said, I

485
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: don't want a dog that hunt real hard. I want

486
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: one to kind of be a pet in anyway, I

487
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: get this dog from him, bring it home six months old.

488
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: He tells me, all this dog is gonna do. And um,

489
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: when it was eleven months old, it came in and

490
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: did really good for me. And but so I called Alvin.

491
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: I was gonna try to get another plot, and Alvin

492
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: was like, man, you don't need you. You pretty much

493
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: told me you'd help me find a pup, but you

494
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: didn't think your bloodline would coon hunt the way I

495
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: wanted one. Is that about right? So you didn't try

496
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: to sell me. We don't. We don't have I would

497
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: give them too if I thought they would have worked

498
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: for we don't. Mike, are cuts sold? They are? They don't.

499
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: They don't make it. Yeah, even think he takes pride

500
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: in his dogs and not putting off a lot of crap.

501
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean I mean, how dogs that are bred for

502
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: hog when there's stiffic specific traits and skill sets she's

503
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: breed for for hogs? You know, you don't. That's got

504
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: nothing to do with I mean, it's like I was saying, well, go,

505
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: how these guys can shape these bloodlines to mask their dogs?

506
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean a lot of my dogs

507
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: on tree worth a flip, you know, And I knew that,

508
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, they got some tree bread into them almost

509
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: with their plots. But I mean I haven't bred for

510
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: that for years, and hadn't bread for cold drilling kinds

511
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: of stuff, you know what. I'm just I knew the

512
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: percentages would be so low it wasn't worth your time

513
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: to mess with it, you know, so I didn't. But

514
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: you taught me about the cult of the plot hound.

515
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: And and I mean, really, you're the one who sold

516
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: me on these guys like Roy Clark and Eugene Walker,

517
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: and I mean all these guys that were big plot

518
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: men and kind of how neat that was meant a

519
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: lot of interesting people, as would be a strong word,

520
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: but but it's it's pretty close, pretty close. I call

521
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: it tight circles, you know, And it's just no I'll

522
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: go with a cult. And now they would believe that

523
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: they weren't even good for hog dogs because the barking track,

524
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: but they come around. Yeah, people people thought that over

525
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: the years. Now now, Jumpy, you probably don't like a

526
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: Have you ever tried to plot for colin hunting? I

527
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: have didn't work out? Did it? Now? It was one

528
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: of my It happened just like I thought it would

529
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: happen for you. But I'm a blue tick man. That's

530
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: why he don't hurt with us. Yeah, what kind of

531
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: what blood lone of blue ticks? Do you have? Echo? Echo?

532
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a line that kind of came

533
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: out of Southeast Oklahoma. Come from Lane, Yeah, Lane, Oklahoma. Yeah.

534
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: What what are their strongest characteristics? Cold nose, move track,

535
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: good good tree dogs. I think they're pretty too accurate

536
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: tree dogs most of more. Yeah. Yeah, well I started

537
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: with blue ticks when I first started coon hunting. But anyway,

538
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: I've joined the cult now, so I gotta have I

539
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: gotta have plots out. A guy that I coon hunted

540
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: a little bit with last year, he really wanted to

541
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: go with me, he said, And when I got down

542
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: to it, he said, Clay I've never seen a plot

543
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: tree a coon now, I've always wanted to. He hunted

544
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: a lot, He hunted with a lot of I was amazing.

545
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: People didn't know what one was. We went when I

546
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: had a signed bull. They were puppies and we took

547
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: them to a lot of hog bands and people, what

548
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: are the plots? They never heard of them. They heard

549
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: him after that little series of summer things though, because

550
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: they went and one a lot of stuff they did.

551
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: And then the next year I went in there. I'm

552
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: kind of a big head, thinking I was gonna win everything,

553
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: and they were growing dogs in they went caught like

554
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: a bulldog was over Yeah, straight up, never made to

555
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: sound his point caught. So that was the end of

556
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: their baying days. Yeah, do you hunt a lot with album?

557
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: I used to anymore? Well, my knees hurt, okay, okay, okay.

558
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: So now you got plots too, bro? Yeah? How many

559
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: dogs you got? Oh, I'm I'll be feeding Tunior twil

560
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: right now. I'll probably some coon dogs too, though, dogs

561
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: coon dog. He's got a plethora of color out there

562
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: my my dog yard. Right now. It looks like I

563
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: rated the pound pretty much. I hear you. I hear you, Dave,

564
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: you got any dogs? I got one dog. She's an

565
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: American classic. What does that even mean? She's I thought

566
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: he was gonna say you sit to you or something

567
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: like that, and I was gonna, yeah, I was just

568
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: gonna say, like something something a little okay, so you

569
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: got you do have a dog? I do? Yeah? Where's

570
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 1: the dog go when you go on these trips? Man? Oh?

571
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: She stays with a friend in Missoula. Okay, yeah, okay, Hey,

572
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: did y'all know Dave reminded me of this today and

573
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: he told me not to bring it up. David's from

574
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: New York. Do y'all know that yankee? Upstate New York? Yeah?

575
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: Definitely from upstate New York. Is that's the bottom minute? Yeah,

576
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: that's that's downstate? Or how you speaking of stuff they

577
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: do up north that we don't get to do that here?

578
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: Dave killed an elk last week. I did do that.

579
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: You did kill it the Oklahoma Dave? Why don't you

580
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: go sitt in a truck? Yeah? Sure, you just you

581
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: killed alkan Oklahoma. We'll come back to you, Dave. Maybe

582
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: that's fine. When did you kill it out? It was

583
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: like their third season wasn't it second or third, you know,

584
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: they had they had got it. They started getting an

585
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: established herd in certain little pockets of south eastern Oklahoma.

586
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: And I guess it was I mean, I quote me

587
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: any of this stuff, you know, but seven or eight,

588
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: ten years ago they started having a season and we

589
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 1: had the property we hunt, which is properly you're hunting now.

590
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: And you've seen pictures of them they come to this

591
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: year on some cameras. But there was some something in there,

592
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: and you know, when we started entertaining the ideal trying

593
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: to kill one, you know, there was a quota. Where

594
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: did they come from? Where did they turn? Yea, literally

595
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: they got loose from a ranch. Wow. But now they're

596
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: regulated by the state. Yeah, the whole state is cutting

597
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: four quarters in Oklahoma. Yeah, so then like out west,

598
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: there's no quota. You know, places a cow elk out

599
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: there in the quota was Yeah, she was the last

600
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: one where he had to call her the morning, you know,

601
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: make sure the quotas field. And we had some that

602
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: was coming around some of our stand sites and come

603
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: on the camera and on, and she just kept playing

604
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: cat and mouse with him, you know, and I said,

605
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: they're gonna feel the quota before you get to kill one,

606
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 1: you know. And she called that evening and and uh,

607
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: she said it's still open. I'm going hunting, which man

608
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: reas one hunting too. We were actually youth hunting, me

609
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: and my daughter. It's the first day use season. And

610
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: my daughter had actually killed a dough and then uh,

611
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: we'd shot the dough. And then when we recovered the dough,

612
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: when a few minutes my phone started ringing, you know.

613
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: And when we're hunting, you know, getting the text mess

614
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: is not nothing unusual when you start getting phone calls

615
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: that she's good shooting a lot. At the end of

616
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: the day, you know, something's going on, you know. And

617
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: I gotta I gott a cow, you know, and everything.

618
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, what'd you hit her? You know and everything?

619
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: And she tells me all the stuff, and I'm gonna

620
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: get oot for blood. So here we are tending to

621
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: a dough, you know and everything. So I'll go walk

622
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: through the truck, get the truck, drive down here with

623
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: the doze. At by the time I get down here,

624
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: shere he's found the cow, you know. And she tells me,

625
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: She's like, it's such and such you do one tells

626
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: me how to drive right towards she's at and uh,

627
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: She's like, how are we gonna get down here? I said.

628
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: She gives me a hard time about this, And I've

629
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: been around. I'm not at West guy, you know, but

630
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: I have been. I turned seen the cow before, and

631
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: I mean me and a couple of guys loaded it

632
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: in the back of a truck. So I was like, man,

633
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: I can get it up in there, you know. She's like, what,

634
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: I can get it up back of this truck from

635
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: drive right there close to it, you know. So I'm

636
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: driving around talking on the phone, you know, and uh,

637
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: I still thinking I can get this hell in the truck.

638
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: And I was dead wrong, and she's giving me a

639
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: hard time. But I had And how man, I don't know.

640
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't flip it over. It was the lead cow.

641
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: It was the biggest cow in the group. You know.

642
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: There was there was an immature bull in there, and

643
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: she she was gonna shoot you to the bull or whatever.

644
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: You know. It's just kind of whatever. You know. It

645
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: wasn't once in a lifetime deal kill no, And she

646
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: was after whatever, you know, But she got a chance

647
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: to cut that big cow. And and it was the

648
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: biggest on a group. I don't know five d n,

649
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know the big big me

650
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: to put them back on a trup. Yeah. I just

651
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: run my daughter's hunt and she said, you just head

652
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: to up me. Well, Dave, you killed a little scrawny

653
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: bull up in Montana. Oh yeah, my first bull. So

654
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: that was pretty stoked. Yeah. So you moved from New

655
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: York to Montana like five or six years ago, almost

656
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: eight now, eight years ago. Yeah, I'm pre COVID and prettyellowstone,

657
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: so I feel like I'm in the clear, you know,

658
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, okay, So so people that moved

659
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: there after COVID, it's like a certain type of people. Yeah,

660
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: well the demographic has been changing. Yeah, yeah, okay for sure.

661
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: So um but yeah, I killed the bull last week,

662
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: my first bull. Been chasing him with a bow for

663
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: quite a few years and a rifle. But I spent

664
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: like twenty days in archery this season, missed one and

665
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: then third day with a rifle. How big was how

666
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: big were the how big was the rack? He's a

667
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: six by six. Yeah, he's not a giant, but a

668
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: good I feel like a good Yeah you were how

669
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: far from the truck when you killed it. Uh. I

670
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: was pretty lucky that I was only like two and

671
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: a quarter miles because there was some points in archery scene. Yeah,

672
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: there's some chery and I was pretty far out. Um,

673
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: So I shot at like two o'clock, and then that

674
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: evening I quartered it up. I was by myself, quartered

675
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: it up, took out a front quarter and all the

676
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: loose meat, and then the next day I went in

677
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: with a sled. I was a little far away from home,

678
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: so trying to call friends to come help me pack out.

679
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't really it wasn't really working out. So the

680
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: next morning I bought a sled, hiked in, put the

681
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: other three quarters on a sled, and dragged it out.

682
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: It wasn't too bad. You get to one in Pacalama's

683
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: I seen it. Yeah, that's what he needs. I need

684
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: to get a mule. I need to talk to Jump

685
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: about buying one of the mules. We got. I got

686
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: about tena over there. Yeah we didn't say that Jump

687
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: is a muleman too. Hey, we were gonna talk about

688
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: our squirrel hunt. You and Alvin, Brian, Brian Ringels and

689
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: Alvin came up and squirrel hunted with me in February.

690
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: We were just gonna hunt pretty much one day, right,

691
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: and y'all brought your horses and I had the mule,

692
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: and we had an uneventful squirrel hunt in terms of

693
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: killing squirrels. But we went to a big property and

694
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I had my two fights and and they hunted out

695
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: in front of us while we rode down some just

696
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: basically old roads. And yeah, that that was. That's all

697
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: I can remember is that I was riding to a

698
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: tree and the dogs were treated, and I took a

699
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: stick in the eye, which I mean isn't terribly uncommon.

700
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: I just kind of thought I could just blank it out,

701
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: and man, it just kept getting It. Probably happened that

702
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, ten o'clock in the morning. Yeah, I

703
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: had already shot the only squirrel to be shot. And

704
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: what happened, actually, I'll get this story for all the listeners.

705
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: What actually happened was the squirrels were starting to move

706
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: pretty good and we were starting to get a lot

707
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: more trees, and Clay new I was fixing to put

708
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: on this squirrel shooting exhibition, and that's what happened. I

709
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if I've witnessed it. That way

710
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: for sure or not, but maybe I was missing something. Uh,

711
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: it was something like that. It was something like that.

712
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: So you poked yourself. Now, where are you going to day?

713
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: My chair just had a blowout. Oh wow, they've lost

714
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: a chair. This is what happens when you been sitting

715
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: in the tree stand for a couple of days. Well,

716
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: that's my new chill rocking chair. My friend get me,

717
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: we gotta, we gotta. Yeah, just go over there and

718
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: get that chair. Okay, when that kind of stuff happens

719
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: to skinny people, makes you feel good a chair now.

720
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: So I was, I was riding, riding to the squirrel tree,

721
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: took a stick in the eye. Didn't think I mean,

722
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: it hurt right away, but you know, probably a few

723
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: minutes later, I was like, man, I took a stick

724
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: in the eye, cant already see on this eye? And man,

725
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: rather than getting better, it just kept getting worse. Well,

726
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: probably two hours later I couldn't hardly see how to

727
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: either eye. And it was like probably one o'clock and

728
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: these guys had driven hours to come up here and

729
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: hunt for one day and I couldn't see. Alvin had

730
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: to drive my truck driving me to the eye doctor.

731
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: Why don't. Did you take me straight to the now?

732
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: I took you home and Misty Head came to get you.

733
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: That's right. And anyway, I went to the eye doctor

734
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: and I had scraped five layers off my cornea, which

735
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: sounds worse than it than it is. They put a

736
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: medicated contact lens over your eye and basically that's all

737
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: they do, and it and it heals. But that's all.

738
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: Who's year after the fabrication knew of the eyepatch that

739
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: we did out there in the woods. For what we do.

740
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: I forgot to cut a piece of a saddle blanket

741
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: off or something I can't remember, and you tied it

742
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: around your head was something. It was pretty primitive. Yeah,

743
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: killing it. No, I told Alvin this the other day.

744
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: So I'm relatively new to the equine world. I mean

745
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: I was an adult when I started riding quite a bit.

746
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: And um, we were riding. So when I go with

747
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: people that have been around, you know, have have been

748
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: riding and doing stuff their whole lives. I'm paying attention,

749
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: trying to learn something when I was When when we

750
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: were riding, we we came to a rocky a real

751
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: steep rocky bluff and uh. And I didn't blame Alvin

752
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: a bit. He stepped off as we rode through some

753
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: pre ruugh stuff and when we came to the spot,

754
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: it was brushy and about a probably a three and

755
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: a half foot drop of slick rock. Real bad too,

756
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: you know it potential sliding down and uh man, I

757
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I think any horse guy, mule guy would

758
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: pride himself on not getting off, and so I would

759
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: be in that category. But when I saw you get off,

760
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: I went and looked it over and was like, you

761
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: know what, I think I'll get off too, which is

762
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: pretty rare. It's pretty rough little spot. So me and

763
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: you just let our you're a horse by mule down

764
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: this little deal and coming up Brian's coming up behind

765
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: us on his Mustang and and I just know he's

766
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: about to get off, and he doesn't get off, and

767
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: he does the man from Snowy River deal off the

768
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: off of this thing and leans back and this back

769
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: was on the butt of that horse. And I was impressed.

770
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: I was thoroughly impressed with that. That you didn't get

771
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: off your horse. That was probably just pure de laziness

772
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: on my part. You just didn't want to get off.

773
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: Tell me about your horse. What kind of horse you got?

774
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: He's a Mustang out of Arranging, Nevada as where he

775
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: come out of what I'm here in a wild horse.

776
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: The paperwork no, uh, I've got two of them, but

777
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: he was. The paperwork on him says he was a

778
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: four year old when they gathered him off the range,

779
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: and I've been using him since he was about ten.

780
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: I bought him. I bought him already broke from some

781
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: more guys that had actually been roping cabs on him

782
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: and using him on a ranch. But he's made a

783
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: nice hunting horse. And he's actually on his way back

784
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: from New Mexico elk season right now, on the second

785
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: gun season. Some boys borrowed him and took him out there.

786
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 1: What is there legitimate stuff about what those a Mustang

787
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: would be better at than just regular horse that had

788
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: been bred and raised in captivity. I think so well,

789
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: it's just got to do with the same as about

790
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: he was talking about line breeding the dogs and stuff

791
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: like that, you know, I mean, they're just the hybrid

792
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: vigors there, and the survival of the fittest has been

793
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: there from natural selection for so long as what makes

794
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: them our gene pool, so much difference you know from

795
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: the domestic course that we race here, you know, has

796
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: been so they're actually selecting for characteristics of survival that

797
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: work for a horse on the range. Naturally that happened,

798
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, yes, to where we've selected for different performance

799
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: aspects on the in the courter horse world or whatever

800
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: the other you know, domestic course might be. So that's

801
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: the difference. They're just naturally selected for brains, toughness. You know,

802
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: they don't have feet problems. They don't have teeth problems.

803
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: That stuff weeded itself out. You know. You can fix

804
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: the colt's feet with the shoes, but you they're born

805
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: that away. If they don't have feet right feet, they die, right.

806
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: I see what's say? Now? That brings up a good question,

807
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: and we we're gonna get to talking about r T

808
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: soon enough. Okay, people ask me this and I don't

809
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: have a good answer. I like having good answers when

810
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: people ask me stuff. Every today. Most modern horses have

811
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: to be shod or they'll go lame. I mean, for

812
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: the most part. Or is that it's true statement? Well,

813
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: depending on their job, that can be a true statement. Yes,

814
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: you know, there's a couple of reasons. This is gonna

815
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: be very broad, but there's a couple of reasons to

816
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: shoot a horse, and it's you're gonna be either two

817
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: for protection or some type of a dietary that they

818
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: need to overcome a genetic issue, you know. And so yes,

819
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: most performance horses today have to be shod and some

820
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: wear another because they kind of let that part of

821
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: the selection in the breeding be on the back burner

822
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: for so long. So that's why a wild horse wouldn't

823
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: have to had shoes a thousand years ago. It was

824
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: because he was selected for having good feet. Well, yes,

825
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: that's true, you know, unless they had some type of

826
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: job that they're wearing off more than they can grow back,

827
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: you know. I mean even uh, I read a book

828
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: just the other day. It said that there was some

829
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: some of the Apache Indians even would cut a piece

830
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: of skin off of the hip of their horse whenever

831
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: they was riding one and he was about to give

832
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: up on them and put that over their foot, you know.

833
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: So people have been a half horse actually off the

834
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: same horse they were riding, you know. And but they

835
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: didn't need to be shod for purposes like balance and

836
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: pedietary and that kind of thing where you was correcting

837
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: genetic issues. They just had to be shot because you

838
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: were wearing more foot off the naked girl back. Yeah,

839
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: you know in rough Rocky capturin you know. So it

840
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: depends on their job cutting holder. Stud can get down

841
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: on his belly and cut a cat like no other

842
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: and he's got a crooked foot. He's still getting bread

843
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: and he's still passing him genetics on down their line.

844
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. So if there's one that's

845
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: real good at this other stuff, feet aren't that big

846
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: a deal. You can fix the feet with a farrier,

847
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: but not in the well. But not in the well. Right, Yeah,

848
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: that's why me and Jumpy ride mules. Right, jump right up.

849
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: I heard he has one that loves seems what your

850
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: wife told me, Mad and Bailey, Yeah, that's what she

851
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: called it, all right, RTI Stewart's secret agent man. What'd

852
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: you take? Alvin? What stood out to you? You know? Uh?

853
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: When I first started listening to the the part about

854
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: leading double lives, you know, and kind of missing with

855
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: him his mind, you know, Yeah, that was something I

856
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: never would have thought of. You know what. It's kind

857
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: of like, Oh, I never would have thought of that,

858
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: you know, and that really was probably about his interesting.

859
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: I mean, that was probably most interesting, don't get wrong.

860
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: I mean I'm looking forward to episode two where he

861
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: talks about some of the different you know jobs he

862
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: was on you know, and and what what some of

863
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: the things were that were happening that they put a

864
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: stop too, and stuff like that. But from the first one,

865
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: that was pretty much what was kind of something I

866
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: never would have thought of, kind of kind of come

867
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: across pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I want to know his wife,

868
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: he was married, he was how she took it, because

869
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: you can't tell me if he's leading a double life.

870
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: He wasn't leading the hanging out with Buddy's partying and drinking. Well.

871
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: He rt is very open about this stuff. It's in

872
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: his book, So I feel like I can say this,

873
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: and he even said it on the podcast. It just

874
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: didn't make the cut. But like he he lost his wife,

875
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: he lost his marriage, uh during that time, and he

876
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: he's really open about it about how he uh yeah,

877
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 1: it did affect his marriage, and I felt I felt

878
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: sorry for him, and he said, you know what, I

879
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: didn't go to graduation and stuff. He he didn't get

880
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: paid enough for that. Yeah, and they already say, you

881
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: know he eve regretted, he wouldn't do that. You know

882
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it again. Yeah, did it strike y'all

883
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: as and this is an honest question to any of you,

884
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: did it strike y'all as unique that he was is

885
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: open about that stuff as he was, I mean about

886
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: like making mistakes, because I mean it seems to me

887
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: like people well or or or just find a way

888
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: to justify it or blame it on someone else. I mean,

889
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: it's like we have all these mechanisms to deal with

890
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of the way we've maybe mess stuff up. And

891
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: he was just like, yeah, pretty much. Is he not

892
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: worried about him because he wrecked people's lives? And I mean,

893
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: I guess he's missing with hins, that's different, but you miss,

894
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: really he'll don't like it. You know, they still could

895
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: come get you twenty years later. They're not gonna forget.

896
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: I just wanted to how if he that back was mine? Yeah,

897
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: if he if he was ever worried about retaliation from people.

898
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: Some people are just more open than other people. I mean,

899
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: some people will talk about things it's like it's nothing,

900
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: and some people want that's about all your Felons album.

901
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: He's perfect. He's perfect, but also too. I just had

902
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: this thought when you were saying that, you know, I mean,

903
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: this guy lived up a live of life for so

904
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: many years. It may be a breath of fresh air

905
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: for him to tell you everything you want to know

906
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: about himself. Right, Yeah, it could be. I mean, would

907
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: you do it jumping? Ask that again? You do that?

908
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 1: Going to cover and leave your daughter, grandkids? I wouldn't

909
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: have made a good undercover do y'all? Do you all

910
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: work with any undercover agents drug people people? Yes? So

911
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: how would that work with you? With you? I mean,

912
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: can you talk about that? I'm not probably not a

913
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: whole lot. But when we have something going on, well

914
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: we'll call some of them guys and have them come

915
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: in and try to make some buys or something for us.

916
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 1: Kind of works a long same lines. What RT was done?

917
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: What do you think Jumpy? Just overall? Well, I tell

918
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: you a whole lot of things he talked about I

919
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: can relate to, and uh, it's really intrigued with the

920
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: psychology part of it. And uh, we'll first off, you know,

921
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: he's got a pin full of blue ticks. I got

922
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: a pinfull he was thirty five when he started law enforcement.

923
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: That was thirty five when I started. So but the stress,

924
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's unbelievable what kind of stress UH police

925
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: officer goes through? And I just only imagined what he stress,

926
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: this constant stress like that. Yeah, I thought it was

927
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: so fascinating when that psychologist Dr. Matthew Sharps I was

928
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: talking about how humans were designed to handle acute stress,

929
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: which is acute means short term stress because of our

930
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: hunter gatherer roots, but we don't have any mechanism deal

931
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: with chronic stress. I love that guy man I when

932
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: we contacted him, he's from uh California State University, I

933
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: think in Fresno, and I was I was very happy

934
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: that he was pumped that we were a hunting related

935
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: podcast like he. I wasn't so sure if he knew

936
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 1: what he's getting into, but he was like, oh, yeah,

937
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: he's studied quite a bit about UH. He had, he

938
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: had a lot of knowledge. But I thought that was

939
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: an insightful thing. I would have never thought about that.

940
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: Even the way we're wired is built for UH, you

941
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: know kind of comes back from our background. What what

942
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: anything else stand out to Yes, he got close to

943
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: some of those guys, And uh, I relate the same

944
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: way with some of the some of our inmates that

945
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: we have, people that we were as of course, I

946
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: was raised here in Cold County. It's a small county. Yeah,

947
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: so I know most other people that were putting in jail,

948
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: and I have work crew and a lot of times

949
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: I'll get the guys out and walk down highway picking

950
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: up trash or mos cemetery. Well, you get kind of

951
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: in about ninety percent of the guys once they get

952
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: in jail and get sobered up, they're pretty good people,

953
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: pretty decent people. You kind of get, uh, kind of

954
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: get a relationship with them, you know, kind of become friends,

955
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: and it's easy to get close to him, to them

956
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: guys like that. Yeah, and uh, I just make it

957
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: clear with them. You know, some of some of the

958
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: ones we put in jail or deer hunters or coon hunters,

959
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: old hunters, and some of them just bad people. They're

960
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: never gonna get any better. But when they get out,

961
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: the ones will get close to they get out and

962
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: they know they get out there and get the messing

963
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: up again that you know they're not gonna get no

964
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: break or going to right back to jail. Yeah, so

965
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: you're saying the relationship maybe helps helps them stay straight

966
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: in the future. Not very many. No, No, they all

967
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: want to when they go to jail gets straight. We're

968
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: not doing this again. We're not coming back. Most of

969
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: them is back within a few months, all right, back

970
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: in the same crowd. If they don't change the company

971
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: they run with and don't get a job to keep

972
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: their hands busy, stay out of trouble, they end up

973
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: right back in jail. Most of them do, not all

974
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: of them, but most of them do. Yeah, they end

975
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: up right back in jail. Most of them do. Not

976
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: all of them, but most of them do. M What

977
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: would you think that a guy like RT, like his

978
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: life would have really been in danger with wildlife criminals

979
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: like he was dealing with. No, not around here, he wouldn't. Uh.

980
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: I don't know how the laws are in Ohio. But

981
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma the wildlife laws are all misdemeanors. And how

982
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: are you how are they in the Ohio I don't know,

983
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: because we have the lazy act here. Of course, that's

984
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: if you carought take a legal game a cross state line,

985
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: that's a failed me. But most just like somebody going

986
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: out here poaching deer. That's a misdemeanor, you know, a fine.

987
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: They rarely put somebody in jail. They do, but it's

988
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: not real commonly. Yeah, you can leave you hunting license over,

989
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: you know that. I wouldn't take a chance on it.

990
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: He had a lifetime hunting license. Think he lose that? Um?

991
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: I think I definitely there was some felonies given out

992
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: to some of the guys that he was. He was

993
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: after he almost have to be justified the time and

994
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: money spent putting into it. A spoiler for the next episode. Um.

995
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: He he tells the story where he's with these guys

996
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: and basically his undercover world means that he he cannot

997
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: he can break the law, like he could actually go

998
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: shoot a turkey if he felt like it was in

999
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 1: the name of keeping his cover and was gonna help

1000
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: bust these guys like so, so, these undercover guys have

1001
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: some liberty to do the work that they need to do.

1002
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: And in all his work, he only killed one illegal animal,

1003
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty incredible because he was on

1004
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: hundreds of illegal deer and turkey kills. He sounds like

1005
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: an awesome job party running on a shoot crap. I

1006
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to come home either. Surery, you just exposed

1007
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 1: your deep motivations. Uh no, But he said the one

1008
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: thing that he couldn't do in his undercover position was

1009
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: knowingly commit a felony. And one time he was with

1010
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: these guys and he's driving the poach coach and they

1011
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: go into a gas station and rob it and come back.

1012
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: He just he's out there pumping gas and has no

1013
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: knowledge of it, and he, uh, it's just a total spoiler.

1014
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna it's just a cool story here

1015
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: and to tell it. But basically they come back out

1016
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: and they're like, let's go, golt golts go, and he's like,

1017
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: what happened? What's going on? And they robbed the store

1018
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: and he turned on his video cameras so that the

1019
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: video would pick up that he didn't know about it.

1020
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: So he he was like, man, I had no idea

1021
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: you guys were gonna do that, and they were like, well,

1022
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: it just happened. We you know. He he wanted it

1023
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: because he would have gotten trouble, and turns out there's

1024
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: a lot of liability with being an undercover agent. He

1025
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: was constantly worried about him get himself getting in trouble.

1026
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: But the other thing that happened spoiler alert to is

1027
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: that he he's with these guys one night and they're

1028
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: they're plotting to kill a guy that had turned them

1029
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:29,479
Speaker 1: into the game warden. Like literally he is over hearing

1030
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: a conversation. Well, no, no, no, no, no, it wasn't

1031
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't even that straightforward. He had somehow had his

1032
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: uh uh surveillance equipment on and he overheard the guys

1033
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: in the poach coach talking about how they were gonna

1034
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: kill such and such and such like had a plan,

1035
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: but he didn't hear. He didn't hear in person. He

1036
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: goes back and listens to the tape. Here's them plot

1037
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: in this murder, but in Ohio. For a conversation to

1038
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: be recorded, at least one person in the conversation hasn't

1039
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: been aware of what's happened. No, so he calls his

1040
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: boss and he says, hey, we gotta sticky situation. These

1041
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: guys are gonna kill this guy and I know this,

1042
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: but I know this illegally, and and so what do

1043
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: we do? And basically the boss was like, we just

1044
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: got to write it out. And anyway, they ended up

1045
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: not killing the guy, but just constantly finding himself in

1046
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: pretty wild situations. Yeah, and I mean they're rough folks. Man.

1047
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: I thought I said it early on in the podcast,

1048
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: and it was stuck with me, and I was like, man,

1049
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: he said that, and corrat me if I heard it wrong.

1050
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: But he said that every person he was investigating, at

1051
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: some point in time during the course of the the

1052
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: mission or whatever, they had questioned him about are you

1053
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: proudly are you under cover? Every one of them? And

1054
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: I thought, I mean, the first thing I thought was,

1055
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean, if if I think you're undercover, you're saying no,

1056
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm not. It's not good enough for me. I don't

1057
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: understand months and him doing Sady Crepton. I guess maybe

1058
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: so I don't know, I thought, I mean, I can't believe.

1059
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: I can't believe no one figured out. I mean, I

1060
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: guess he's good, good, good What he did? You know? Yeah?

1061
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I mean, you think about it.

1062
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: Every single situation he was the new guy, I mean,

1063
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: just because they didn't know him from childhood. I mean,

1064
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 1: like literally he was the new guy. And in every

1065
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: situation he was deep in with these guys and was

1066
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: going out and poaching with him big time. So, I mean,

1067
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: I I think sometimes it was joking. It would just

1068
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: be like, man, I bet R two is a game Warden, Dave,

1069
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: what do you think, man, you said he had some

1070
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: serious thoughts. Well, I have some thoughts. Yeah, I don't know.

1071
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: It seemed I don't know to the extent of what

1072
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: he was catching people doing. But I mean, like he said,

1073
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: he got close to some of these guys and he's

1074
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: like he knew he was about to ruin their lives.

1075
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: And I don't know, it just seems it's like going

1076
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: undercover like that for that long. It seems really deceitful

1077
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: and for I imagine mostly these situations, these guys were

1078
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 1: doing crimes far beyond just like shooting some more you'd

1079
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: have turkeys and do that, dear. But yeah, it just

1080
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: seemed a little it seems over intrusive, Yeah, a little

1081
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: little icky, almost almost wildlife violations. They're not I mean,

1082
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: they're not shooting the last rhino or you know, or yeah,

1083
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: let me say that. If you read the book, which

1084
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: the book is called Poachers Were My Prey, and it's

1085
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: a very well written book. Chip Growths, the guy that

1086
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: was on there he he wrote, he actually wrote the

1087
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: book and it the book is very well written. It's

1088
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: like well done, and all of these anything ART was

1089
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: called on was pretty major. I mean, for instance, there's

1090
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: and I won't talk about this, Art doesn't talk about this,

1091
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: but one of the chapters was about poachers from West

1092
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:41,919
Speaker 1: Virginia that were literally krding for years enormous amounts of deer, turkey, squirrels,

1093
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: any any kind of meat that they could get, taken

1094
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: it to Cincinnati, Ohio to sell to restaurants. Really yeah,

1095
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: and so RT, yeah, so RT goes there and uh

1096
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: and he's like these guys are selling to these people

1097
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: and and uh they you know, he infiltrates and like

1098
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: it's like the super underground thing and basically they were

1099
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: putting it in stir fry for real, the whole whole

1100
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: chapter about it. Like that's pretty serious, you know. And

1101
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: then and then the other guys, like when he got

1102
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: really the guy he talks about that he got so

1103
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: close to those guys in in In he he worked

1104
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: that case for like seventeen months. RT himself was on

1105
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: with one guy was on. He couldn't even remember how

1106
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: many turkeys before season. That guy poached. He said, oh,

1107
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: probably around he said, between forty and sixty. I don't know.

1108
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean that's a lot of turkeys in one season

1109
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: for one guy. I mean, that's pretty serious stuff. So

1110
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: that's why they're going to that extent. But yeah, they're

1111
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: not trying to catch a guy out here. That's you know,

1112
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: trying to sms limited squirrels. Yeah, I mean, trying to

1113
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: get the bigger guy and probably take down more people.

1114
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: But I don't understand how you can go along with

1115
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: forty two sixty turkey kills and just I mean, right

1116
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: at some point in time, this is what we're trying

1117
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: to stop. Well, and he he talks about that and

1118
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: all that stuff is like very much on their minds,

1119
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: and what they were doing was, um, they had by

1120
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 1: the time he was going after one guy, and by

1121
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: the time he was done, they had twenty six people

1122
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: that were deeply involved in this that he had evidence on.

1123
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: And so like, you know, maybe they've got this guy,

1124
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: but they're still working on this guy, and the sting

1125
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: has to come down at one time, so they say, hey, man,

1126
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: we need two more months. And during that two month time,

1127
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: he's got to maintain his cover and do his stuff,

1128
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: and he actually said that, he said, there came a

1129
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: point when we just had to say, oh, enough is

1130
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: enough for the people of Ohio. We gotta bring this down.

1131
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: So if you read his book, he's gonna explain all this.

1132
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: He explains it because I don't have to read it,

1133
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: because I just can't write my mind around all that.

1134
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: For me, Yeah, it's pretty wild that I started talking

1135
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: about buying new vehicles and renting houses for time, and

1136
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: I started thinking, I mean, I would I started trying

1137
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: to imagine in my head actual like a analytical sheet

1138
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, that showed how much money they spent and

1139
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: all the actual convictions they got, and started trying to

1140
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: just imagine what I mean, it's probably gonna break down

1141
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: to millions of dollars, you know, for I mean, obviously

1142
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: several several convictions. But yeah, it's kind of mean. Natural

1143
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: resources gotta be protected. But at some point in time,

1144
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: you can't spend billions millions of taxpayers dollars, you know.

1145
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: But like you said, there's some pretty big cases, you know,

1146
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 1: don't wonder I wonder, I wonder how that money could

1147
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: have been spent towards. Like I started thinking about how

1148
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: many of these guys, we gotta fire to buy a

1149
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: bunch of public lan Well, I mean, those are legitimate questions,

1150
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, first of all, back in the nineties,

1151
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: I think they were on such shoestring budgets to actual

1152
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: money that they spent on these things was relatively small,

1153
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: you know. But I think wildlife enforcement over the years,

1154
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: it's almost like, uh, what do they say that there's

1155
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: there's some there's some if if if people know that

1156
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: that's going on and that they're seeing people go to

1157
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: jail and get felonies for stuff, kind of it's like

1158
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: having an unhunted population of grizzlies in the West. They

1159
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: get super aggressive because there's no penalty for doing bad.

1160
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: When there's a penalty for doing bad, it kind of

1161
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: filters of the whole system. That's the way I think

1162
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: about undercover. Is that pretty close? Yeah, just because I mean,

1163
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, if all I have to do is dodge

1164
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: got in a uniform, I mean maybe that's I mean,

1165
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: there's ways to do. Even even Russ Arthur the the

1166
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: the Forest Service agent who interviewed Louis Dell or try

1167
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: which worked on Louisdell and Charlie Edwards. He the first

1168
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: thing he said to me, as he said, Clay, how

1169
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: hard is it for a a single poacher to evade

1170
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: one man that has to cover seven counties? You know?

1171
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: Basically he was like, it's not hard to get away

1172
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: with breaking the law and uh. And so anyway, the

1173
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: undercover thing, though, kind of filters out and it's like,

1174
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: holy holy smoked, better be watching ourselves. How bad did

1175
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: that bother him? Knowing he was putting these met in

1176
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: jealful stuff that he was doing right along with them. Well,

1177
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: I think that's just part of the job. It's kind

1178
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: of like, you know, does the bull rider get upset

1179
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,479
Speaker 1: when they get hurt? It's like they ride bulls. Yeah,

1180
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean I don't think that's just part of the deal.

1181
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: You know, you would bother me that I would. I mean,

1182
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, better than them to a sence, because you're

1183
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: going along with it. Well, and that's kind of what

1184
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: I built up in the thing, is that, like it's

1185
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: it's an odd philosophical and ethical position to go and

1186
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: break the law. Yeah. Yeah, this this undercover agent deal

1187
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: being a deterrent, you know, like you're explaining, and that

1188
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: makes great sense. But I had a thought on that

1189
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: right there. You know what I mean, it's regionally, it's

1190
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: it basically blows your cover, you know what I'm saying.

1191
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, once a big bus happens in Southeast Ohio,

1192
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: you're not making it. You don't infiltrate no more poaching

1193
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: rings in that area for a long long time. I mean,

1194
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: it's just big news. Everyone knows the undercover and they

1195
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: it comes out in the news stories. You knowing that

1196
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: how many years a had and and there's poaching ring?

1197
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: Is it probably like it probably just helped them, you know,

1198
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, which if you read the book and there's

1199
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: no way that you know in our podcast is going

1200
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: to give you all the details of this book, here's

1201
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: the way it would go down. Is a lot of

1202
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: times they wouldn't Well, this doesn't directly answer your question.

1203
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, But as far as Art goes,

1204
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: he was able to work in the same general kind

1205
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: of Southeast Ohio for his whole career because a lot

1206
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: sometimes they didn't even know who the undercover guy was.

1207
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: Before social media is yeah, I don't think you get

1208
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: buy that now because you can reverse image search and

1209
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: find you know, find anything. Yeah, there would be platform

1210
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: of social media available that people are looking at twenty

1211
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: four hours a day, seven days a week. Nowadays, it

1212
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: would be blown all over, you know, and it would

1213
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: be that they might not even know. They would just

1214
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: be like you remember that Bob Thomas Skot he was

1215
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: my neighbor for two years and he moved. He did

1216
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: he come out always not always. What I'm saying is

1217
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily have to know who it is. They

1218
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: just have to. They just have to know that. You

1219
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: gotta be careful. They're using undercover agents now and and

1220
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: therefore no one's even if no one not infiltrating, infiltrating

1221
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: that group of people, because they're aware. Now. The other

1222
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: thing I learned in this is that they're also what

1223
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: they call I think they call winding informants. Is that

1224
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: phrase makes sense jumpy where basically where if you were

1225
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: if if you were a bad poacher and there was

1226
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: somebody close to you that got arrested, they could come

1227
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: to him and say, make a plea deal with him

1228
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: if they'll help catch this guy. So you could have

1229
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:57,799
Speaker 1: a wedding informant, which means an informant that is working

1230
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: along with the undercovers. So it could be your best friend.

1231
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: But it's not a good life when everybody finds out

1232
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: about it. No, it's not. It's a dangerous one. Yeah,

1233
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot of it's there's a lot of and

1234
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: he goes through the law like in the book, kind

1235
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: of like how stuff legally works. And it is pretty interesting.

1236
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 1: But my question is good RT catch Louis Deal. I

1237
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: don't think so. Good question. I don't think so. Man,

1238
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: He's like the ghost coon. You ain't catch any Did

1239
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 1: you listen to the together? Yeah? Yeah. I want to

1240
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: say when Louis Delle said, hey, are you're a private

1241
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: an investigator and he said no, I want to say,

1242
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 1: Louis Deal would have followed up. He would have done

1243
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: some more recon y'all y'all heard it on there when

1244
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 1: when RT like elephant in the in the room when

1245
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: I said I've heard of undercover agents that like live

1246
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: in the area and drive a couple hours and just

1247
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: kind of have and he said, oh, that's playing undercover.

1248
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: That's playing you know. He didn't know that I had

1249
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: interviewed a guy and it was kind of I can't

1250
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 1: throw Russ under the button. That was just what they

1251
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: had available. He that's just the way they had to

1252
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: do it. They didn't have a big budget, he wasn't

1253
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: more trained for their tax dollars. Well, but I think

1254
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: if they had gone in and I think RT would

1255
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: have caught him. I think I think it sounds like

1256
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: r D's the goat comes to this undercovered stuff. RT.

1257
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: He he sounded like he was probably as good as

1258
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 1: you could be at that job. Yeah, I think he's

1259
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: real deal. What was it? What was the timeline that

1260
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: he was he was doing this? What years um, late

1261
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: eighties through eighteen years past that? So like the mid

1262
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, like two thousand six or four, question for you.

1263
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: So I wonder how much since the emergence social media

1264
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 1: they've had to they they haven't had to go undercover

1265
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 1: as much and totally different. So Russ Arthur, the Sports

1266
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: Servants law enforcement guy that I interviewed, he called the

1267
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: Forest Service before he talked to me and just said, Hey,

1268
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 1: is it okay? If I talked to this guy and

1269
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 1: they were like sure, and and he said it was

1270
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 1: because the undercover world is so vastly different. Used to

1271
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: you could just show up and have an I D

1272
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: and say maybe searching Bob Thomas's social media for the

1273
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: last twenty years right now if you showed up. Yeah,

1274
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: so it's different tactics. My question, if they took that

1275
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: many turkeys, how do you affect population in years after that?

1276
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: Because I know turkey uh density As a question thinking

1277
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 1: you like to follow up one? You know how it

1278
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: is that they were if you can kill forty turkeys

1279
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: and you're in a good turkey area number one, Um,

1280
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 1: so they had they had a robust population. How was

1281
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: it that, Well, you need to figure that out. I

1282
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: don't know, you need looking at that. Yeah, well they

1283
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 1: they it's it's definitely you know the in the in

1284
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: the the ethical position is that for that is that

1285
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: game populations are owned by all the people. So that

1286
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: guy was taking more than this year, so he was

1287
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: taking game away from other people, you know, And so

1288
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: it sounds like they didn't have to men hunters back then.

1289
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: If you had that many turnkeys that were good area,

1290
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: they were in a good area. What do you think

1291
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: about it? Mr? Ferrier? Well, a couple of things jumped

1292
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: out at me about the I just had never thought

1293
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 1: of before. But he it makes you think about your

1294
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: own psyche a little bit, you know. But he said

1295
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: that he caught every one of those people basically by

1296
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 1: stroking their ego, you know, putting them on a pedestal,

1297
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: he said. And so that'll tell you something about the

1298
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: human mind that wants to be bragg down. That's why

1299
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:02,640
Speaker 1: I think he caught on social media now because they

1300
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: can't resisce Pope posting it. Yeah, there Bay like spragg.

1301
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: That's why I was wondering if they've had less agents

1302
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: since social media because they can just scroll through Instagram

1303
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: and find him now. Yeah. And another thing that was

1304
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 1: a little bit stood out to me was I never

1305
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: thought of this, but he said that he went into

1306
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: that job and done that for all those years and

1307
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: put up with all that stress and was very successful

1308
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: at it and was able to overcome all of the

1309
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: challenges of it, but he couldn't stand to go home

1310
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: and take care of his family. Is you know, he's

1311
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: he couldn't stand the stress of taking care of his

1312
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,560
Speaker 1: kids or fixing the roof on the house, But he

1313
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: can go undercover for years and handle that. He was

1314
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 1: living a good life undercover. That's pretty wild. Badly was

1315
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: getting some sort of rush out of it too, Yeah,

1316
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was it was it was

1317
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: like a I mean it may not be probably an

1318
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 1: affect everyone the same way, but undaudly he may may

1319
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,600
Speaker 1: may don't say it, and he may don't even realize it,

1320
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: but he undatally was getting some sort of adrenaline rush.

1321
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm not trying to say he's a

1322
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: bad guy, and if I'm just saying it was it

1323
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 1: was probably like his feeling. Oh he he talks about it,

1324
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's hard. I talked to him

1325
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: for almost four hours and y'all heard thirty minutes of it.

1326
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: You know, the podcast was an hour long, but you

1327
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: actually heard Artie talking for thirty minutes. So I mean,

1328
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: like he go he went into that. Oh he he

1329
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: was like absolute adrenaline rush. He said, constantly. He said,

1330
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 1: you walk into a new house with a guy and

1331
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: you don't know what's about to happen, and at any

1332
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 1: second your cover could be blown. He said, it's just

1333
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: constant fight or flight. And he thrived on that. And

1334
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it was more of that then it was.

1335
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not trying to defend a gun nothing,

1336
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 1: but I mean it was probably more of that enjoying

1337
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: that enjoyed that adrenaline rush and it was actually, you know,

1338
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: not being neglected. You know. I mean he let on

1339
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 1: like he's intelecting his house and his family and everything.

1340
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: You know, but it probably he was neglecting it. But

1341
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't neglecting it because he was a bad guy.

1342
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 1: He was neglecting that because just rush and his adrenaline

1343
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: rush was drawing him back so so hard. You know.

1344
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 1: That's a mama. I can't see anything that would take

1345
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 1: you from your kids though I've made that. I mean

1346
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,560
Speaker 1: Sherry first got married. I mean, this is is irresponsible.

1347
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: I remember quitting jobs to deer hunt. How stupid is that?

1348
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean that's ridiculous.

1349
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it don't make me a bad person, you know.

1350
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 1: I mean, but but but some things, I mean, sometimes

1351
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 1: you let things draw you away from your responsibilities. You know,

1352
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 1: he can't leave un anymore I did hunting New Yeah. Yeah,

1353
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't see leaving my kids for that long. That

1354
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 1: would break my heart. Yeah, there would be no adrenaline.

1355
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: That'd be almost like the drugs that say they can't

1356
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: get off of drugs for their kid's sake because they

1357
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 1: liked it high too much. So I'm saying he is

1358
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:57,599
Speaker 1: he is like addicted to the highf he can leave

1359
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: his kids a long almost sure. I was really glad

1360
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: to hear him say that. In the way he said it,

1361
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,560
Speaker 1: I believed him. He said he said he has a

1362
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: really strong relationship with his kids. Now, I'd like to

1363
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 1: question his kids and see how how old were they,

1364
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 1: And I bet they've got some stories that he don't

1365
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 1: want to hear. As adults, they may understand it, but

1366
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 1: as little when they were a little bit, they didn't.

1367
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, And I think I think that's where

1368
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: it felt to me, like he's taking responsibility for that now. Yeah,

1369
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 1: and that's that's good. That takes a lot to say

1370
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: that I didn't looklected my kids, and I missed this,

1371
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 1: this and this, and he admits it wasn't worth it. Yeah.

1372
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 1: I caught myself all throughout that thinking, man, it'd be

1373
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty cool job. Parts like, oh man, I

1374
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,680
Speaker 1: couldn't do that, you know. And it's just I was

1375
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: back and forth and I'm like, oh, it sounds like it,

1376
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: but you know, right down my alien and all of

1377
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: a sudden, I couldn't do that, you know. It's just

1378
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: so it's kind of one of them deals, you know

1379
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm sure things about it he didn't like,

1380
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, throughout all that, but oh no, it's it

1381
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: sudered him to a tea and he's actually pretty day

1382
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: them good at it. Yeah, yeah. How long was he

1383
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,759
Speaker 1: in law enforcement before he retired? You know, he worked

1384
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 1: eighteen years undercover, but I think he was a couple

1385
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,639
Speaker 1: of years as a uniform well I know for sure

1386
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: a couple of years as a uniformed officer before that.

1387
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: So about twenty years plus. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's a

1388
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: lot of stress. Twenty years would be a lot of stress.

1389
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: How long are you going on seventeen seventeen? Yeah, he

1390
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 1: deals with a lot of stress. I deal with a

1391
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 1: lot of stress. Everybody. Now, are you gonna Are you

1392
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 1: gonna run for sheriff next election? We'll just see what

1393
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: happened talking about We'll just see what happens between now

1394
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: and the end. Do you need us to help you

1395
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: with your campaign on burgaries? Oh? Yeah, next year still

1396
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,560
Speaker 1: a couple of years away. It'd be uh, it'd be

1397
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: a year and a half. Actually, with your credentials, you

1398
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: would be the only sheriff at this time in North

1399
01:18:58,080 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: America that I know that we could put the whole

1400
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: Burgary's brand behind to get reelected. So the mules that

1401
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, Brian, were you you had you had two

1402
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: great points there were with those? Do you everything else

1403
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 1: to say? Well? I just had a question in my mind.

1404
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, I'm not taking nothing away from

1405
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: the gap, but how good would you have been without

1406
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 1: those informants? You know, his whole career was shut up

1407
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 1: on the informant thing. You know, I know you gotta

1408
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: have him a good team. He had a good team

1409
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: to do job. Yeah, you know, you know what those

1410
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 1: guys when you're with him, and this is just so

1411
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: that couldn't he talked about his boss and his all

1412
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 1: the people around him. Oh, he gave a lot of

1413
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: credit to other people. You know, he really did, you know.

1414
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: On the podcast, it's like I wanted to talk about

1415
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: how great he was, you know, but is that what

1416
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: you're saying? Just like he was around the team of people.

1417
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: Well you have that and then you know the s

1418
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: and he could right, you know, if it wasn't for

1419
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: the if it wasn't for the scumbag that would throw

1420
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 1: his own mama in front of a train to get

1421
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: out of trouble. He might not could have got some

1422
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 1: of those convictions, but he also had a good, close

1423
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 1: knit team, like you're saying, on his side too, you know,

1424
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. Yeah, but that just goes back

1425
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: to me. I'm not trying to took my own horn,

1426
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 1: but I put a lot of stuck in honesty, you know,

1427
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: And whenever a guys stands up and says that it's

1428
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: pretty much all all propped up on a lie, then

1429
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm I got my guard up, you know. But but

1430
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: I would be all four whatever tactics he had to

1431
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: use if he was out there catching somebody that was

1432
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:45,560
Speaker 1: mistreating little kids or raping women or something like that.

1433
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: You know. So it's it's just, uh, I had a

1434
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: little bit of a question they're about that. You felt

1435
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: like it was a little too much, kind of like

1436
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: Dave a little too much force for something. I don't

1437
01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: think wen't wrap around anybody poaching like that, even Brian

1438
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: both I'm I'm mirror what they're thinking too. You know.

1439
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: It's a little it's a little extreme, but it's just

1440
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: like what shared just said is exactly is a great point.

1441
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 1: I can't wrap my mind around what bad something could

1442
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: be in a poaching world, you know, I mean I

1443
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean yeah, and I imagine too if

1444
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: they're I mean, if they're poaching that bad then' like

1445
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,600
Speaker 1: they held upstations. I mean they're they're different. And you know,

1446
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 1: I came to him to talk about wildlife stuff. Almost

1447
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: everything involved drugs, and I mean they were getting and

1448
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 1: they were getting, they were getting convictions for everything. Like

1449
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: he was law enforcement, so he could he could, Uh,

1450
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 1: he didn't have just jurisdiction over a guy killing a

1451
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,759
Speaker 1: legal turkey, you know, if that guy is selling drugs

1452
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: or if this guy is doing you know what. And

1453
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: that just blows my mind. How this guy got inside

1454
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: with these guys and talked his way out of drinking

1455
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: and drive and you know he couldn't wouldn't supposed to

1456
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:58,719
Speaker 1: drink and drive, you know, and didn't need to drink drive,

1457
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 1: and and they're obviously probably doing drugs around him him

1458
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 1: not not doing any drugs. I mean, how do you

1459
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 1: fit in with these these scumbags? You know, they sit

1460
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 1: on there like they had. He showed with big corns

1461
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: and stuff like that in Turkey fans and he got

1462
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: from the DN or I so bad want to give

1463
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 1: the biggest spoiler. He okay, I'm not gonna tell the

1464
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 1: whole thing. RT is on the stand that he's in

1465
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 1: court looking at these people all twenty six minus one

1466
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: of the guys that he is about to Ah, it's

1467
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: so complicated, it will give it all away. Basically, they

1468
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: asked him the the defense on drinking and drugs, and

1469
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: they straight up ask him, were you ever drunk with

1470
01:22:56,080 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: this man? And are It's so good to hear rttail.

1471
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: I can't tell it, but he told them the truth

1472
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: and then he said, have you ever done drugs with

1473
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:13,560
Speaker 1: this man? RT tells the truth? Anyway, it was incredible

1474
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: the way the way he did it, and I'll tell

1475
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: you afterwards. I gotta leave it as a as a

1476
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: shocker for everybody else that's in the next episode. But

1477
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: he he navigated through all kind of wild stuff, all

1478
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: kind of would have been a wild life. It's pretty interesting. Yeah,

1479
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: that's what I said. I mean, it'd be a lot

1480
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: of fun. Well, hey, we've been uh, we've been going

1481
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: on a while here. Closing thoughts, Hey you okay, there

1482
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 1: is a set of shed antlers right over there. How

1483
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 1: big are those horns? Alvin? There? I don't know is

1484
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 1: it a twenty five point buck? I mean counted on

1485
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: a buddy of mine scored them, but I don't. I've

1486
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 1: never even counted on giants, said a non typical antlers

1487
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 1: that were found over here somewhere, And tell me, tell

1488
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 1: me what the guy said that you showed those two

1489
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: while you were working. My brother, my brother in law,

1490
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:10,720
Speaker 1: found the first match set at the ranch house. Brought

1491
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: him over to us, and I was like, whoa you know,

1492
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, but quite a bit about deer horns,

1493
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: and that's like them are not normal, you know. And

1494
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:18,720
Speaker 1: they were like a hundred and seventy inches, you know.

1495
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:20,640
Speaker 1: And the next year he finds a single one and

1496
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 1: then never did find the other one. Ther right behind

1497
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: the ranch house, like coming up behind the ranch house.

1498
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 1: He's finding when he's feeding. He's not looking for sheds,

1499
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 1: you know. It just and anyways, the next year he

1500
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: finds this final set and uh, he brings him over

1501
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: to the house and we got all of the minute,

1502
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 1: get mall to us. He's not a deer hunter nothing,

1503
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,679
Speaker 1: he won't hunter. Anyways, I had him and they're they're

1504
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: magnificent set of horns, you know, carrying them around you know,

1505
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 1: everyoneren't showing different people, you know, and and uh the

1506
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: guy worked with and uh a lot of comments about him,

1507
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, different comments. Boy A like to kill that

1508
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: one and all this. You know, where are you working.

1509
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 1: You're working on pipeline. We're doing the pipeline job, but

1510
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: with tongue. And this guy was from this guy I'm

1511
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: actually Arkansas. He's an Arkansas anyway, Arkinson anyway. He was

1512
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,679
Speaker 1: a dozer operator. And I knew he was crazy fanatic

1513
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 1: deer hunter, you know, and and I, hey, check he's out,

1514
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: you know. When he comes over and he gets his

1515
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: hands on him, you know, and he just kind of

1516
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 1: don't say nothing for a few minutes, you know, and

1517
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 1: he's looking at him and he's turning them this way

1518
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 1: and turning them that way, and and I'm kind of

1519
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 1: waiting for him to say something, you know, because it's

1520
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: kind of moment sound moment pause here, you know, and

1521
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 1: he he just looks me straight in the eye and

1522
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:26,960
Speaker 1: he says, I'd go to jail to kill his deer

1523
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 1: right here, or he said I would. He's he's exact

1524
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 1: what was, I would go to jail trying to kill

1525
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: his deer. And I fell over I busted out laughing,

1526
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: and he didn't crack a smile. He was not joking

1527
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: and go to jail over a deer, man, I can't wait.

1528
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 1: I can't wait for Mark Kenyon one day to hand

1529
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 1: me instead of horns. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna,

1530
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do just what Alvin's buddy. I'm gonna look

1531
01:25:55,240 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 1: at jail trying to have a hard time, not cracking small.

1532
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody it was a pretty good hideout

1533
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: deal because the guy that lives right behind the ranch

1534
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: house never would he denied it. I confronted him. I

1535
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 1: was like, how you got pictures that in here? No,

1536
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I want Boston Goods. And

1537
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,240
Speaker 1: then after the deer didn't show up for a couple

1538
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 1: of years and the horns didn't show up for a

1539
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:21,679
Speaker 1: couple of years, and to our knowledge, he finally admitted

1540
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: to it. And I actually seen daylight pictures of the deer.

1541
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: He showed me daylight pictures of deer, and he actually,

1542
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, admitted to it. Obviously show me, but uh,

1543
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 1: no one else. I never talk talk to anyone else

1544
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: in that area that ever had pictures of that deer,

1545
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: but he did, he had and he did for several years.

1546
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 1: He didn't tell nobody. Yeah, I couldn't do that. Brian

1547
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 1: and Ryan on both No him, I tell you who

1548
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't good off here. But yeah, I don't think

1549
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: any because I think if somebody killed him, we had

1550
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:50,640
Speaker 1: heard about it. I mean yeah, because the process and

1551
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 1: plans right down the road to and he knew about him.

1552
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: He's seen all the ships and boys. I'd go to

1553
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 1: jail trying to kill it this week man in Dirty

1554
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: Dave have been trying to kill We'd kill one a

1555
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 1: lot smaller one from the camera. Well, hey, it's been

1556
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: fun having all you guys on Jumpy. You're you're a

1557
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: big Burgheries man the Most Bargeries podcast several times over. Yeah,

1558
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: probably your biggest fan. He needs autographs. Hat my hat,

1559
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 1: he got me hat you on my hat right on.

1560
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I do. I appreciate it. Um, she's

1561
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 1: got my hat on. I was sing it got the

1562
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:40,560
Speaker 1: Burgheries hat. Crazing thoughts. Anybody is your last chance? The

1563
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: same thing about RTI Stewart. If I don't sure, I

1564
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: don't listen as as much as to the stuff that

1565
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 1: when I flipped through your podcast real or if it

1566
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 1: looks interesting, I'll listen. I'm not a faithful listener, but

1567
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,160
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to this next one. I really him.

1568
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 1: I kind of want to hear the rest of this stuff.

1569
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, big dirty Dave. I'm excited to hear more.

1570
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And I'm crossing my fingers. Do you have

1571
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 1: we get a buck even close to that size walking

1572
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 1: from I'd kill a buck with just the amount of

1573
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 1: inches off of one side of absolutely no news, Yankee.

1574
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 1: You're wearing crocs. Oh, Dave's got crocs. Way to go, Dave,

1575
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: crocks and socks the first on the boat. Well, thank

1576
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: you guys so much. Been a pleasure. And uh yeah,

1577
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 1: this is a this is the first podcast we've done

1578
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: in southeast Oklahoma. So come around. The campfire's good. That's good.