Speaker 1: Hi'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing,
Speaker 1: my chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to
Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspired their creations, what decisions changed
Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Well, I never
Speaker 1: thought about me being in show business. I was a fan,
Speaker 1: didn't watch TV, and I loved the movies. My guests
Speaker 1: today both worked in film and TV during the Golden
Speaker 1: Age of Hollywood. Robert Osborne began his career acting, but
Speaker 1: his fascination with show business, drama on and off the
Speaker 1: set led to a very different job, one he seems
Speaker 1: to have been made for. Hi. I'm Robert Osborne, and
Speaker 1: our Jimmy Cagney tribute continues now with Jimmy and this
Speaker 1: is the Third Man. Osborne has been host of Turner
Speaker 1: Classic Movies for almost two decades. His knowledge of the
Speaker 1: film industry is encyclopedic, and he will tell you it's
Speaker 1: rare when a movie comes along and inspires a whole
Speaker 1: generation of actors, singers and directors. Just sing Singing in
Speaker 1: the Rain is one of those movies. It also transformed
Speaker 1: the life of its leading lady, Debbie Reynolds my first
Speaker 1: guest this Hour. Reynolds was just a twenty year old
Speaker 1: actress under contract at MGM, but after her performance in
Speaker 1: that iconic film, she was destined to become a star.
Speaker 1: Some of the highlights of Reynolds's career include Tammy in
Speaker 1: Tammy and The Bachelor, with a song that reached number
Speaker 1: one on the Billboard Charts, I have a cotton Woods
Speaker 1: Whispering Able Jimmy jim ted Love. Reynolds was nominated for
Speaker 1: an Academy Award for her leading role in The Unsinkable
Speaker 1: Molly Brown and received a Tony nomination for her Broadway
Speaker 1: debut in the musical Irene. Debbie Reynolds was born in
Speaker 1: Texas and raised in Burbank, California, but after her career
Speaker 1: took off, the small town girl found herself living in
Speaker 1: a universe occupied by the biggest stars of her time.
Speaker 1: Right across the street was Jimmy Stewart and Lucille Ball,
Speaker 1: and everybody was on that one street. It was like,
Speaker 1: let's have a party every night. George Burns and Eddie
Speaker 1: Cannor lived on one block, so I would drive over
Speaker 1: there because that street was more fun than my phone.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of fun to be had back then.
Speaker 1: This was still the golden age of Hollywood, but it
Speaker 1: was also the studio system where executives bought and sold
Speaker 1: actors like property. Although a parny to Reynolds, it had
Speaker 1: its upside too. When we were under contract, most of us,
Speaker 1: Shirley McClain and Elizabeth Theater were at MGM, and everything
Speaker 1: was done for us, you know, the makeup of hair.
Speaker 1: It sent cars for us. We were very spoiled. We
Speaker 1: didn't kind of know what to do when they dropped everybody,
Speaker 1: like when television came in. You remember what year around
Speaker 1: there was. The end of the studio system kind of
Speaker 1: died as you get into the fifties. It is slowly
Speaker 1: died a death. You know. It was like interesting to
Speaker 1: watch it was. I didn't realize it was the end,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know that it was that you
Speaker 1: didn't know what the change meant. Well, I was a
Speaker 1: young girl, so I didn't And I wasn't an intellectual.
Speaker 1: I wasn't educated. I'm from Burbank, Burbank and originally from
Speaker 1: You want to be a gym teacher, that's me, you
Speaker 1: know what I always aim high me too. I love, Jim,
Speaker 1: you know I love. I wanted to be a lifeguard
Speaker 1: son girls. Well yeah, swim, yes, Well, I was never
Speaker 1: that ambitious. I wanted to be a gymnast. I wanted
Speaker 1: to work on the bars and Entropedes work. I loved
Speaker 1: all that stuff as a young girl in Burbank. And
Speaker 1: you're athletic, no doubt. What's the first thing that happened
Speaker 1: that says show business to you? Well, I never thought
Speaker 1: about me being in show business. I was a fan
Speaker 1: and I would go to the movies because my mother
Speaker 1: let me. But no one else in our church was
Speaker 1: allowed to go to films because movie stars were all
Speaker 1: evil creatures, just dreadful. My mother let me go to films.
Speaker 1: His mother was very religious, very my family said my dad.
Speaker 1: My father used to say, no, no, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go to church with you. I've told you
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to go because all those good
Speaker 1: people will be killed. If I walked down, the roof
Speaker 1: would fall in. And he was always teasing my mother
Speaker 1: by asking what church did you go to? Churches and Nazarene,
Speaker 1: which is like hard shell Baptist, kind of like your
Speaker 1: mom was a heart. She was a Texan She was
Speaker 1: a Texan Texan Baptist. She was tough and strict and
Speaker 1: there were so many rules. How many kids in the family.
Speaker 1: Just my brother and I were in the family. And
Speaker 1: then my mother discovered what's your brother's name? Bill? And
Speaker 1: do you know who Bill is? To me? You don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you know that Billy Reynolds was my makeup artist
Speaker 1: on nuts Landing for a year? Oh my gosh, was
Speaker 1: he your brother? Billy isn't He was my makeup artist
Speaker 1: and he's one of the people that helped me survived
Speaker 1: that experience because those three broads from the Joan Colins
Speaker 1: School where they were having the makeup put on with
Speaker 1: a trowel every day. I'd have federally funded programs to
Speaker 1: pay for the makeup for them. Billy Reynolds would turn
Speaker 1: to me and he'd sit there and say, you know,
Speaker 1: did you bring a book with you? We're in a
Speaker 1: be here for a while. These girls are three hours
Speaker 1: in the chair. And then he told me that he
Speaker 1: was Elvis's makeup artist. Yes, And you know that every
Speaker 1: time he mentioned Elvis, he didn't mention it a lot
Speaker 1: because he was very shy, very shy. He mentioned Elvis
Speaker 1: once or twice, and he started to cry. He would
Speaker 1: turn away from me and hid to say. He said
Speaker 1: to me, almost was the greatest man I ever worked with. Well,
Speaker 1: the other used to play Elvis used to tease him
Speaker 1: a lot and put snakes down his pants, and popcorn
Speaker 1: and pop pop popcorn and put it in his drawers.
Speaker 1: You know, they used to kid my brother. They used
Speaker 1: to just pick on him kind of, but he didn't care.
Speaker 1: My brother was a baseball player, really man's man. He
Speaker 1: lives men in my house with me. Will you give
Speaker 1: him my love? I don't even know if he'll remember me.
Speaker 1: She Oh, he remembers everything. He just doesn't talk about it.
Speaker 1: You know some men that are like almost reclusive, but
Speaker 1: not really, because underneath all of that is a great
Speaker 1: sense of where I adore my brother. I think our
Speaker 1: life was rather tedious and hard because we didn't have
Speaker 1: any money. I mean, my dad made two hundred a month.
Speaker 1: Now that's better than nothing, but it's still also advised
Speaker 1: very little. So our life was a little bit meager.
Speaker 1: You know, we never had a Christmas tree. We never
Speaker 1: had so when the opportunity came along for you to
Speaker 1: get into the business, and I'm from the same school. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering where you was enticed by and where you
Speaker 1: was thrilled by as much about making money to help
Speaker 1: your family as you were about your own glory. Well,
Speaker 1: mostly I thought it was a joke that I won
Speaker 1: this contest, and then all of a sudden, I'm in movies.
Speaker 1: The silliest thing I was the contest. It was a
Speaker 1: Miss Burrbank, Mrs Burbank. Don't don't, don't, don't downplay that.
Speaker 1: No change my whole life and made my whole life
Speaker 1: wonderful and marvels travel all over the world and meet
Speaker 1: all these fabulous interesting people and see different countries. So
Speaker 1: I'm very proud to say I was Miss Burbank and
Speaker 1: had a hole in my bathing suit and there my
Speaker 1: rear end was hanging out, and I didn't have shoes,
Speaker 1: high heel shoes, so I had I'm very grateful for
Speaker 1: stumbling in the show business step to Miss Burbank. What happened?
Speaker 1: They took me to Warner Brothers and made a little
Speaker 1: screen test and asked me why I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a movie star. So of course I told him I
Speaker 1: didn't want to. And after they laughed and they said
Speaker 1: of course you do. I said, no, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't really. I mean, this is just fun. You're just
Speaker 1: this is your kidding around, right. I was very square
Speaker 1: and my family were very virginal, you know, very go
Speaker 1: to church Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. You're glad they were square.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for that kind of upbringing throughout your career.
Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying this, I mean I wouldn't
Speaker 1: waste your time of mind. You know, you're a gorgeous woman,
Speaker 1: and everybody thinks of you and think of you being
Speaker 1: three things beautiful and talented, but also being very straight laced.
Speaker 1: I mean your career with something where there's a kind
Speaker 1: of a in the sensuality quote and there's any of
Speaker 1: a gardener over here. It's kind of working that whole thing.
Speaker 1: And then there's you, who you didn't work that whole thing.
Speaker 1: Did you find that that was something that was because
Speaker 1: of your childho your upbringing. I just grew up that way,
Speaker 1: so I thought that's the way everybody was until after
Speaker 1: three husbands. Now I realized that ass totally wrong. Concept
Speaker 1: unlucky and love unlucky. What else happens when you're unlucky
Speaker 1: and I just made it up. You just wrote that
Speaker 1: just for you. Okay, well we should record you later.
Speaker 1: Good morning, We've danced the whole night through. Good morning,
Speaker 1: good morning to you, and you and you and you're
Speaker 1: good morning, good morning. It's great to stay in Blake.
Speaker 1: Good morning, good morning to you. What fun you see?
Speaker 1: I can't sing to save my life. If you put
Speaker 1: a gun to my head and said saying you almost
Speaker 1: sang on, when did you know you could sing? When
Speaker 1: did you know you? When did you realize you could?
Speaker 1: Just started singing like other a pole? So what you're saying,
Speaker 1: you started by doing mimicry. I started mimic McDonald's I've
Speaker 1: never tried and the ricks. She's a soprano, but I
Speaker 1: would do the alto and ethel Mermon anybody with a
Speaker 1: big voice, you know, I'd always do their voices. Because
Speaker 1: I I enjoy comedy, comedies everything. I love vaudeville, that's
Speaker 1: my favorite thing. I enjoy drama somebody else doing it,
Speaker 1: I personally don't want to do it Debbie Reynolds, because
Speaker 1: it's so serious. It makes me sad, it takes me
Speaker 1: where it goes, and so I don't accept any parts
Speaker 1: that are devastating, because I don't want to be unhappy
Speaker 1: in my life. I'll just live my life. Is that's
Speaker 1: tough enough, So I don't need any parts that make
Speaker 1: me miserable. So when you're at Warners and you say
Speaker 1: to them I don't want to be an actress and
Speaker 1: they do the screen test, what happens there that you
Speaker 1: wind up banking over to mgm Well, what happens is
Speaker 1: they send me to a meeting and so they all
Speaker 1: Gene Kelly in the room and Mr Mayer says, here, Jean,
Speaker 1: this is a new girl that you're going to have
Speaker 1: as you're leading lady. And I'm seventeen, and but I
Speaker 1: had never danced before, I'd never acted before, nothing, nothing, person,
Speaker 1: just a girl's scout. So there was a Jene Kelly
Speaker 1: a movie. So I couldn't believe the whole scene. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just thought the whole thing was silly. I really
Speaker 1: thought it was silly. So Mr Kelly said, can you
Speaker 1: do a time step? I said, oh, oh, yes, I
Speaker 1: learned that a girl scout cap. So he said to
Speaker 1: do time step. So I did a little awful time step.
Speaker 1: Then he said, can you do a MAXI Ford, and
Speaker 1: I said I don't have a car. Well, obviously that
Speaker 1: was the wrong answer. He looked at Mr Mayor and
Speaker 1: he said, you're kidding me, boss, and Mr Mayer said, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting you meeting you. This is this is
Speaker 1: the leading lady. And that was it. He was stuck
Speaker 1: with me, poor thing. Can you imagine Jane Kelly and
Speaker 1: these guys were assuming me, like like many of the
Speaker 1: actors I know today, they're pretty no nonsense people when
Speaker 1: it comes to the quality of their their product, and
Speaker 1: they're very hard. But Gene Kelly, of course the most
Speaker 1: brilliant dancer. Jean said, all right, I'll take her. I
Speaker 1: can I can fix her. I can fix it up
Speaker 1: because she's right for the part. The acting bar but
Speaker 1: a Stare taught you too. He helped me. I was
Speaker 1: trying to learn everything, like with Donald run up the
Speaker 1: wall and flip backwards. I mean, I knew I was
Speaker 1: a flip, but you know, I had to learn how.
Speaker 1: I wanted to learn everything, and then I'd be crying
Speaker 1: under the piano. One day a pair of legs go
Speaker 1: by and I'm some crying away and the legs say,
Speaker 1: who is that under the piano? Who is crying. So
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's just me, Debbie.
Speaker 1: So it was fred is stare. He said, Debbie, get out,
Speaker 1: get out from underneath. They pulled me out and he said,
Speaker 1: now you come and watch me with hers. I never
Speaker 1: allow anybody. He always had a guard at the security guard.
Speaker 1: No one was ever allowed. But he let me watch
Speaker 1: and for maybe over forty minutes, and his face turned
Speaker 1: already just used a cane and a drum after about
Speaker 1: half an hour, and his face turning red. And he's
Speaker 1: doing brilliant work. Of course, he looked over at me, says, now,
Speaker 1: Debbie wants you to go back in there, stop crying
Speaker 1: and be great. In order to be a great dancer,
Speaker 1: you have to practically kill yourself. This is what it
Speaker 1: takes to be a great dancer. Now running there, just
Speaker 1: running there, Shut up and do what help you? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: I just felt like I was a big sissy, and
Speaker 1: I don't like to be a big sissy. In those
Speaker 1: days or any other day. When you you finished the movie,
Speaker 1: when it was done, how did you feel when it
Speaker 1: was over? I think you you've learned a great deal.
Speaker 1: Either that or you already quit because in order to
Speaker 1: keep up with these great talents, you had to devote
Speaker 1: yourself totally. I didn't go home. I slept in my
Speaker 1: dress room. We didn't have a Saturday off, we only
Speaker 1: had Sunday off. And that practice all the time. And
Speaker 1: I don't think I changed at all. I just learned
Speaker 1: how to apply myself. And what about people's perception of you?
Speaker 1: That must have changed. The picture came out what year,
Speaker 1: I don't remember what year, in ninety two, something like that,
Speaker 1: you're a movie star now, correct, Well I was popular.
Speaker 1: They couldn't believe a young girl had gotten that far
Speaker 1: and no talent, no no experience. So I was newsworthy.
Speaker 1: But in those days we had movie magazines and they'd
Speaker 1: write all kinds of stories for free. You know, the
Speaker 1: studios would give It was the golden era. So what
Speaker 1: kind of story did they write about you? Then? When
Speaker 1: you're only seventeen eighteen years old? What do they make
Speaker 1: it up? You know, they'd give a little party. They'd
Speaker 1: give a party. They had Rock Hudson going out with
Speaker 1: his secretary. You know, Rock didn't want to go out
Speaker 1: with this secretary. It was Paul. Yes, that's John, Sam
Speaker 1: and Joe. What's the next picture you did. After Singing
Speaker 1: in the Ring, After Singing in the Rain, I did
Speaker 1: How the West was One with every star you've ever
Speaker 1: heard about. The first movie I ever saw in the
Speaker 1: movie theater, My Life Ever was a wonderful picture. Spencer
Speaker 1: Tracy narrated the whole thing starting You'll Never See Again,
Speaker 1: and John Wayne was in that everybody. It took two
Speaker 1: years to make that picture. I started out playing a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old and ended up a ninety year old,
Speaker 1: so it felt like my life. I worked very hard
Speaker 1: on that picture, and Henry Hathaway was the director, and
Speaker 1: he was really tough and very hard on everybody. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not very kind of actors, but we were all
Speaker 1: a little bit stupid and employees slow. He thought it
Speaker 1: was slow. So he I had heard this about him.
Speaker 1: You know, he was a very tough director. So when
Speaker 1: he came over to Fox Studio where I was making
Speaker 1: another film with Andy Griffith, I said to him, he
Speaker 1: wanted me to do it the first part of it,
Speaker 1: How the West Was On. I said, well, sir, the
Speaker 1: truth of it is that I've heard really such bad
Speaker 1: things about you. I don't want to work with you.
Speaker 1: So I just stared at me, said, what the is that? What?
Speaker 1: He's cussed like crazy? Oh? Yeah, cuss, he said, you
Speaker 1: little snot nose it little? Oh yes, he attacked you aggressive.
Speaker 1: He bawled me out. He just said, you have no
Speaker 1: right to say that I'm boss here, that I cuss
Speaker 1: and all that. I said, well, what are you doing now?
Speaker 1: For goodness sake, what do you think You're yelling at me?
Speaker 1: For the commissary there are people staring at everything. I said,
Speaker 1: this is why I would never work for you, because
Speaker 1: I don't want to be miserable. So I turned it down.
Speaker 1: And then he wouldn't let me turn it down. He said, no,
Speaker 1: you're going to do it, and he talked to the
Speaker 1: president of Fox and MGM, which owned my contract. They
Speaker 1: said I had to do it, So I had to
Speaker 1: do it. There's a one missing where I'll build you
Speaker 1: a home in the mid So back then, you signed
Speaker 1: those contracts and people, I think the the distance that
Speaker 1: the studio system has now, which we seated so far
Speaker 1: for audiences today, they don't understand that notion that you
Speaker 1: signed a contract and you didn't get to pick the films.
Speaker 1: You were in your own It's like a bondage is
Speaker 1: indentured servitude. That's exactly. How did the picture go with him? Was?
Speaker 1: He was? He was? He? Well, I went on. I
Speaker 1: did the first section is the one that I was
Speaker 1: signed for, and went on location and he said, all right,
Speaker 1: walk over there. I said, where am I walking? To sir?
Speaker 1: You just walk where, I said, pointing to I said,
Speaker 1: I have to understand where Why am I walking? What
Speaker 1: am I saying? He said, no, you're Oh, you just
Speaker 1: do what I say. I said, this is what I
Speaker 1: told you that day we had the lunch that you
Speaker 1: were going to be rude and terrible to work with then.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go lie down to rest. He said, no,
Speaker 1: you're not. You're going to walk over there and you're
Speaker 1: going to shut up. I said, no, I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: going to faint because you've upset me too much. So
Speaker 1: I fainted, and what happened. I love this. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do that one. I'm going to do that now. You
Speaker 1: just pass out when I need a director like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna faint. Oh my god, you've upset me some boom
Speaker 1: boom fall. Just fall down. Just let him kick you.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. So laid down so if you're lame dude,
Speaker 1: half awake, come up and kick you did he kind
Speaker 1: of poke you with his boot. He poked me. He
Speaker 1: poked me with a boot. Seriously, No, you know this foot.
Speaker 1: You know he poked me because you wake up your
Speaker 1: silly some what you cussing kidding me? I wouldn't open
Speaker 1: my eyes at all because I was just in my mind.
Speaker 1: I said, just stay here all day, just say they
Speaker 1: can't wake make you wake up. So they put some
Speaker 1: that chlora what's that stuff under ether under your nose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I didn't still wake up. I just breathed really
Speaker 1: deeply like yoga. You know, no, I was doing this
Speaker 1: iron vading breathing of smelling souls. That's how obstinate you were.
Speaker 1: I was not going to wake up. He couldn't get
Speaker 1: me up. Was the conclusion with this what happened, I'm
Speaker 1: assuming because you're here, you eventually got up. He walked
Speaker 1: away from it, and he said, she's faking. I know
Speaker 1: she's faking, and I'm gonna kill a little kid. And
Speaker 1: then he became amused by it because he thought he
Speaker 1: knew I was faking, but I wasn't going to wake up,
Speaker 1: and he kind of respected you a little bit. I
Speaker 1: wasn't going awake. He knew I wouldn't do it. I
Speaker 1: was a lot like Hathaway say, so you really aren't
Speaker 1: this wholesome that Nazarine from Burnbank. You're with me, you
Speaker 1: can feel like trouble day trouble, but no, I just
Speaker 1: get very wilful. I'm aries, I'm born April Fool's Day.
Speaker 1: Who's a director that you loved? I really loved all
Speaker 1: the directors. I loved Hathaway too. I became very dear
Speaker 1: friends and visited together areas are you're in areas and
Speaker 1: I'm not big on astrology, but people who are areas there,
Speaker 1: we say they love to bury the hatchet and have
Speaker 1: people get along. And even though you can have a
Speaker 1: bad temper and you can have grudges against people, they
Speaker 1: don't laugh. You just speak up right. You're kind of
Speaker 1: rigorously honest if we if you will, but for you,
Speaker 1: you buried the hatchet with Hathaway and he became a friend.
Speaker 1: You're someone that doesn't like the hold of grudge with people. No,
Speaker 1: I don't, but I'm rather like an elephant. I I
Speaker 1: remember everything. And Debbie Reynolds has had her share of
Speaker 1: hatchets to Bury. In nineteen fifty five, she married singer
Speaker 1: Eddie Fisher. It was the show business wedding of the year.
Speaker 1: Four years later, Fisher famously left Reynolds for her best friend,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor, whose husband had recently died in an airplane accident,
Speaker 1: but she patched things up with Elizabeth the years later.
Speaker 1: They had known each other since they were kids. You know,
Speaker 1: when a man wants to go, he wants to go,
Speaker 1: he goes. I've learned that that certainly, So of course
Speaker 1: I forgave her years after that, because she she forgave her.
Speaker 1: So Marriages two and three were less public, but no
Speaker 1: less painful for Reynolds. Now she's sworn off that institution.
Speaker 1: In a minute, she'll talk about her relationship with her daughter,
Speaker 1: actress Carrie Fisher. I'm Alec Baldwin, and here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our archive more in depth conversations
Speaker 1: with artists, policymakers and directors like Judd Apatow. I need
Speaker 1: constant approval of my writing as I'm doing it, so
Speaker 1: I will show people the first scene, the first ten pages. Anybody,
Speaker 1: listen to more of my conversation with judd apataw at,
Speaker 1: here's the thing, dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin. My
Speaker 1: is Debbie Reynolds. In six she played Albert Brooks mother
Speaker 1: in his film Mother. It was her first starring role
Speaker 1: in over twenty five years. The other one is he
Speaker 1: staying with me for a while. In real life, Debbie
Speaker 1: is mother to Carry Fisher, who introduced Debbie to her
Speaker 1: friend Albert Brooks. Carrie Fisher is of course a star
Speaker 1: in her own right. Her solo show Wishful Drinking discusses
Speaker 1: her battles with drugs, alcohol, manic depression, and being the
Speaker 1: child of Hollywood royalty. It's poignant and hilarious. Having waited
Speaker 1: my entire life to get an award for something, you know, anything,
Speaker 1: I don't care. All right, fine, not acting, but what
Speaker 1: about like a tiny one for writing? I now get
Speaker 1: awards all the time for being mentally ill. I am
Speaker 1: apparently very good at it, and I get honored for
Speaker 1: it regularly. So she is so funny. Oh, yes, she's idiot.
Speaker 1: She's a brilliant. The children were really little. I was
Speaker 1: very worried about my health. I was on the road
Speaker 1: and I was just working like mad in Vaudeville, and
Speaker 1: I was concerned and the children were very small, and
Speaker 1: I called up Jeane Dixon, who was a prophet and
Speaker 1: lived in Washington, and I mean she did you know
Speaker 1: she did with the government and all kinds of and
Speaker 1: she was it was the truth. She was sensational. Gave
Speaker 1: me an appointment and I sat down and she told
Speaker 1: me exactly what my children have become and everything that happened.
Speaker 1: She told me I was married to Harry Carl at
Speaker 1: the time. She said, when you go home, you're going
Speaker 1: to have to face the divorce, and he has taken
Speaker 1: all of your money. When you go home, you will
Speaker 1: find that out, so you don't know anything about it.
Speaker 1: I said, well, no, I I let him take care
Speaker 1: of the money. She said, well he is. Carrie was
Speaker 1: going to be in white robes and sand on a stage.
Speaker 1: Astrologer Jane Dixon, Jane Dixon, who is very world famous.
Speaker 1: Did she predict Kennedy's assassination as well? She predicted everything. Yes, Kennedy,
Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy and Jack Kennedy. Yes, you wrote in your
Speaker 1: book that you're unlucky in love? Why were you unlucky
Speaker 1: in love? What do you mean because I'm just too
Speaker 1: old fashioned, you know. Well, of course I picked the
Speaker 1: wrong man, but that's because I am easy. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm easy. I don't ever argue. I mean, you need
Speaker 1: the money here, you take it? Oh you need that? Well?
Speaker 1: Do you trust people? Well, I'm very trusting. How was
Speaker 1: Carrie like you? And how it was Carrie like Eddie?
Speaker 1: Can you see the lines that? Well, Carrie was born
Speaker 1: with Eddie as the father, and he was on speed.
Speaker 1: So Carrie was born was manic, depressive, bipolar. So she
Speaker 1: will have that for the rest of her life. And
Speaker 1: it's a dread disease. Got that from him, Yes, from Eddie.
Speaker 1: It was very sweet of him. Carrie has an illness
Speaker 1: that is a severe problem over the whole world, and
Speaker 1: they do not have any answers for you. She's taking
Speaker 1: shock of treatments right now and it's the family's pain.
Speaker 1: We all have it because we so want carry to
Speaker 1: be well, and that's what we pray for all the time.
Speaker 1: And she's so funny. Her daughter is divine and she
Speaker 1: goes to school here in New York and she's the
Speaker 1: most beautiful young smart, really smart, and she's taking accounting.
Speaker 1: So I think we'll be all right, those things will
Speaker 1: come to me for about money. And Carrie's going to
Speaker 1: be fine. She's brilliant and she's a great writer. Get
Speaker 1: from you, from me, what did she get? Laughter? If
Speaker 1: you could give people laughter, that would be the ideal thing.
Speaker 1: I know this is going to sound really cliched and
Speaker 1: kind of silly, but you know, you come from such
Speaker 1: a great era of movie stardom. Your name means something.
Speaker 1: When you say someone's name, you kind of go okay.
Speaker 1: But your name, you say a certain kind of a film.
Speaker 1: People automatically think, like the big Golden age of Hollywood
Speaker 1: musicals and you and Kelly and all these movies and
Speaker 1: Unsinkable Molly Brown and all these great films. Even though
Speaker 1: people don't realize that you stopped making films. I wrote
Speaker 1: this down. You stopped making films by and large and
Speaker 1: around What's the Matter with Helen in seventy one, and
Speaker 1: then from nineteen seventy one to six, according to your biography,
Speaker 1: most of what you do is voiceovers or retrospective releases
Speaker 1: like that's entertainment. You know. You don't work a lot
Speaker 1: during that period in films. I just do nightclubs, I
Speaker 1: work theater. I would do a club act over forty
Speaker 1: two weeks a year. I would every day. Where would
Speaker 1: you go? Everywhere? Colorado to the country, Sex is, Yes, Australia, England.
Speaker 1: I did five a day in England. So came a
Speaker 1: vaudevillion for twenty years to make a living from my children.
Speaker 1: And then and then you go and do the movie
Speaker 1: with Albert Brooks? Yes, I did. Mother. Did he convince
Speaker 1: you to do that movie? No, Carrie called me, she's
Speaker 1: a mother. I read a script Albert Brooks, who they
Speaker 1: were very good friends, did, and it's so funny. You
Speaker 1: have to do it. I said, well, you know, nobody
Speaker 1: wants me for movies anymore. Dear. She said, well, mother,
Speaker 1: I want you to fly up here. I was in
Speaker 1: Vegas and I owned a little hotel and I had
Speaker 1: a nightclub and I was happy as a hog in heaven.
Speaker 1: So she said, well, no, I don't care, mother, you
Speaker 1: have to fly. So I flew in and I met
Speaker 1: Albert and I read a scene for him and he
Speaker 1: said to me, you've got it. And I said, what
Speaker 1: does that mean, Albert? He said, well, you've got it.
Speaker 1: You you've got the part. I said, Albert, I have
Speaker 1: to meet the director oh, I am the director. Debby. Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know Albert, and I said, because you know
Speaker 1: I know him since he's a young boy. And then
Speaker 1: I said, well you have to see the producer, then, dear,
Speaker 1: you can't just suddenly hired Debby. Well, I, yes I can.
Speaker 1: I'm the producer. I'm the producer, I'm the director. I
Speaker 1: wrote it. And yes, you're going to do I said, Albert,
Speaker 1: you'll get into trouble. He said, no, you really are
Speaker 1: going to get it now because you're bossing me. So
Speaker 1: now you're just like my mother. So you've got the
Speaker 1: partner shore. Can you eat lamb chops? What the hell
Speaker 1: is a lamb? It's meat. I told you I don't
Speaker 1: eat it. That's not a cow. I didn't know if
Speaker 1: it was the animal. You were siding with the whole thing.
Speaker 1: It's open, wasn't she Albert was very sweet. He wanted
Speaker 1: Doris today, but she just wouldn't do it because she
Speaker 1: would have been terrific. But as we all know, Doris
Speaker 1: doesn't want to go back on the screen. And I
Speaker 1: didn't want it because I was in Vegas and I
Speaker 1: was running my hotel. I'm happy, I did. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of films on a lot of TV shows
Speaker 1: since then, Will and Grace, Where did you play? Well,
Speaker 1: what do you mean? I played Grace's mother. You're Grace's
Speaker 1: mom Adler. Her name was Adler and so as she
Speaker 1: sang a lot did impressions. It was a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to do. And you have you stopped the club actor?
Speaker 1: You're still doing that? You still I still do my
Speaker 1: club act. I've been under the weather for about four months,
Speaker 1: so I've been kind of taking it easy and getting
Speaker 1: my health contest. And you look fantastic. Well, you look gorgeous.
Speaker 1: You give me me my birthday party. You look beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you, dear, And I wish you all happened is
Speaker 1: with your new wife and a baby. Your life is
Speaker 1: all ahead of you. I love my baby so much.
Speaker 1: And even though they're all grown in your age, practically,
Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing like it. It's just so special.
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward, you know when I think of
Speaker 1: you and you being part of that, you know, great
Speaker 1: era of studio filmmaking. Do you ever watch your stuff
Speaker 1: that you did? You ever go back and watch those films?
Speaker 1: You don't bother? Well, some of the films I watch
Speaker 1: everybody else's films Bettie Davis, so I loved her in
Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburna. When you watch a movie, you watch a
Speaker 1: movie from back then. Oh, yes, I only watch all movies.
Speaker 1: You don't go to see You don't exactly, So you
Speaker 1: don't go see movies today, not really don't. Not even
Speaker 1: screeners from the Academy or DVDs at home. If someone
Speaker 1: tells me it's really wonderful, I'll go, Like Titanic, you'd
Speaker 1: watch or something. No, I did go to see You've
Speaker 1: been there. No, I did that movie. So I just
Speaker 1: did a film with It was about Liberaci Behind the
Speaker 1: Candelabra Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas and played Mrs Liberaci because
Speaker 1: I like to do dialection and I knew Mrs Liberaci
Speaker 1: and I knew Lee. We were working a now very
Speaker 1: good friend. Yes, we were really dear friend. Ends and
Speaker 1: you know, he's called me up after the show and
Speaker 1: we go out together and say, were white all white
Speaker 1: Danby and your jewelry And then he'd arrived in the
Speaker 1: limousine with the chauffeur's hat on and he drive me.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was so much fun. I lovedly Broach.
Speaker 1: She was great so I did his mother. How was
Speaker 1: Soderberg to work with? Did you like Soderberg? Oh, he
Speaker 1: was wonderful. The director was wonderful, great director. I just
Speaker 1: had a little part, you know, and she had antsy,
Speaker 1: she was she was the Only thing hard is dialected
Speaker 1: to be real and to have to do doone when
Speaker 1: you're doing their dialect is polish, and so you have
Speaker 1: to talk like really the real little one and to
Speaker 1: be unbelievable. Because I am very good at dialects, I
Speaker 1: love to do them. You know what's amazing to me,
Speaker 1: is you still enjoy doing this? Yes, even though this
Speaker 1: is something that you came into almost accidentally. You know,
Speaker 1: you won the contest and you would over to Warner
Speaker 1: Brothers said we want you to be in the movie business,
Speaker 1: and you laughed when they said that. And yet here
Speaker 1: you are when you were sixteen years old and now
Speaker 1: you're eighty one years old, sixty five years later. You
Speaker 1: still enjoy doing this, don't you. Absolutely? If you're blessed
Speaker 1: enough to be able to have something to do that
Speaker 1: you love besides marriages, I mean, that's the only thing
Speaker 1: that's been a disappointment to me in my life. Honey,
Speaker 1: You're looking at the man you should have married here.
Speaker 1: It's me here, I am. I wouldn't have stolen your money,
Speaker 1: will you? And I would be home right now watching
Speaker 1: turn of classic movies, eating popcorn. I'll be giving you
Speaker 1: a foot, rub. I have a wonderful life, I really do.
Speaker 1: God bless everybody. I really am very But you're another
Speaker 1: thing you have and you don't have to confirm us.
Speaker 1: But I bet you I know another thing you have,
Speaker 1: which is when you meet people you're fans. I bet
Speaker 1: you they just love you. They're my friends. Are not
Speaker 1: my fans. You know, everybody I meet, I just feel
Speaker 1: like I know them six five years and they they
Speaker 1: made me, they gave me my work, and they stay
Speaker 1: by me all these years. You know, I work in
Speaker 1: Vegas all the time, and I work in Loughlin, which
Speaker 1: is called is invad right, Yeah, anywhere there's a job
Speaker 1: I work. You enjoy doing it live that way? How
Speaker 1: long is your show? Sure? The whole act of our
Speaker 1: half hour and a half an hour and a half.
Speaker 1: I do a lot of comedy. Well, I mean I
Speaker 1: try to make it funny. Let me end with this.
Speaker 1: Acting for me is very strange. Now I'm kind of
Speaker 1: done with it, and I mean, I don't think I
Speaker 1: want to do it much longer. And the world has
Speaker 1: changed now, as you well know, it's very different. The
Speaker 1: way is that your phone? I think it is your phone?
Speaker 1: Where is my Isn't that odd? Yeah? Where's Oh? What
Speaker 1: you're listening to now is Debbie Reynolds taking her it's
Speaker 1: my son, I'll bet you Patty Reynolds is now taking
Speaker 1: out all the kucham on her little asia. But I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't find you can't find them. Let's find it there,
Speaker 1: it is there, it is well, and this is this
Speaker 1: is how my son was born, nine pounds three ounces.
Speaker 1: Took a long time to get it out. I was hello,
Speaker 1: good heavens, that's hard to find. Can you say it again? Hello?
Speaker 1: Did I get you too late? That's the story of
Speaker 1: my life, isn't it? Must be a man? Well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to hang up now. I'm visiting with Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: He's a big star. Yes, he lives in New York.
Speaker 1: Just got married again, a young girl. They always pick
Speaker 1: him younger. Yeah, I'm might as that's one thing that
Speaker 1: hasn't changed. Yeah, then nothing has changed. I wanted to
Speaker 1: say I'd love to work with you one day. I'd
Speaker 1: love anytime. I'd love to work with you one day.
Speaker 1: If there's a movie and there's a partner of for
Speaker 1: you to play my crazy aunt, will you come in there?
Speaker 1: Would be fun to do the crazy ant or the
Speaker 1: street lady or anybody you like that. I like to
Speaker 1: do characters where I could faint. Debbie Reynolds's latest book
Speaker 1: is Unsinkable, and she has a huge collection of Hollywood
Speaker 1: memorabilia that you too can have a piece of. I'm
Speaker 1: selling an online. So if Debbie Reynolds, Debbie mill studio
Speaker 1: store dot com, Debbie Reynolds Studio store dot com, You're
Speaker 1: of wonderful things, I'm going to go buy something on there. Okay,
Speaker 1: Chaplin's Aunt, how about that? Coming up My next guest
Speaker 1: film historian Robert Osborne, who had this to say about
Speaker 1: Debbie Reynolds in the minute she came on the screen.
Speaker 1: It's a very young girl. She was so adorable, so bright,
Speaker 1: so comfortable on camera. But I think I admire the
Speaker 1: most about her, though, is her survival instincts. Even when
Speaker 1: she wasn't so popular anymore, She's stuck in there and
Speaker 1: she's still forged ahead and still kept this career going,
Speaker 1: and she truly is unsinkable. Film historian and Turner Classic
Speaker 1: Movies host Robert Osbourne. After this, I'm Alec Baldwin and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing. The next film in
Speaker 1: our Oscar marathon saluting nominees and winners in the category
Speaker 1: of best Screenplay is one of the real biggias from
Speaker 1: that banner of film year of nineteen nine. It's Wuthering
Speaker 1: Heights from Robert Osborne has been hosting Turner Classic Movies
Speaker 1: for almost two decades. I was lucky enough to guest
Speaker 1: host the show with him for three of those years. Now,
Speaker 1: something you may not know about the Third Man is
Speaker 1: there were actually two versions of this film. No one
Speaker 1: knows more about movies than Robert. He's the master of
Speaker 1: the relevant anecdote. He serves as an ambassador to a
Speaker 1: bygone era that he's helped make more popular than ever.
Speaker 1: In Osbourne's own story, the players are legendary, the backdrop
Speaker 1: his epic, and the plot twists will make you say
Speaker 1: that could only happen in the movies. We opened in Colfax, Washington,
Speaker 1: just west of the Rockies, a world away from Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a small town where I went
Speaker 1: to the movies a lot and fell in love with
Speaker 1: all these people also fell in love with the movie business,
Speaker 1: so all I saw were actors on the screen. So
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that's what I have to be if
Speaker 1: I want to be a part of the movie business.
Speaker 1: He headed to Los Angeles, where he met an agent
Speaker 1: who took him to Fox, where he signed a six
Speaker 1: month contract and was cast in a television show. The
Speaker 1: TV show finished and he went to the casting director
Speaker 1: to thank him for the work. The casting director suggested
Speaker 1: that he contact Lucille Ball's office. Lucy herself picked up
Speaker 1: the phone and invited him over. She said, let's watch
Speaker 1: your screen tests. Now, Lucy was somebody that the minute
Speaker 1: she wanted something, she did it. So when it was over,
Speaker 1: he didn't really say anything. She's just thanked me for
Speaker 1: coming by, and I thought, well, she wasn't that impressed,
Speaker 1: but at least I got to spend some time with
Speaker 1: Lucille Ball. Okay, like a week later, a message comes
Speaker 1: on my voice, Uh, you're answering. Absolutely answering service called
Speaker 1: Lucille Ball's office right away. Here's the number. Hello Lebray
Speaker 1: nine two, calling this answer phone. Yes, I called the number,
Speaker 1: and the second he said, well, Lucille Ball wants you
Speaker 1: to come to dinner on Friday night if you're available,
Speaker 1: and meet DESI. I thought, well, that's interesting. So I
Speaker 1: go to Lucy's house at Friday night. There's no Desi,
Speaker 1: but there's Lucy. There's Janet Gayner, there's Joseph Cotton, there's
Speaker 1: Kay Thompson, Chuck Walters, Charles Walters, the director Roger Eden's,
Speaker 1: and a couple of other people, and her sister Cleo
Speaker 1: who was actually her cousin but raised as her sister,
Speaker 1: and me. After the dinner and they were all chatting
Speaker 1: and laughing and all of that drinking. Not Lucy wasn't
Speaker 1: no drinker at that point. She she learned how to
Speaker 1: drink a little bit later on, but not at that point.
Speaker 1: So we went in the living room and where was
Speaker 1: the house on Roxbury right next door to Jack Benny exactly,
Speaker 1: and just down the street from Ira gersh one and
Speaker 1: around the corner from Cety. Map with you. So anyway,
Speaker 1: after dinner we went in the living room. She pushes
Speaker 1: the button and the painting goes up, puts an the button,
Speaker 1: the screen comes down, and I'm thinking, did you ever
Speaker 1: believe that you would ever be? And then I thought, no,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I always knew I was going to
Speaker 1: be here. I remember that thought. I first started to
Speaker 1: say automatically, did you ever think God this and that
Speaker 1: was the beginning for you? Yeah? And I thought no,
Speaker 1: I always knew I was going to be with people
Speaker 1: like this. And I relaxed. Then I really relaxed as
Speaker 1: I thought, no, this is where you're supposed to people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and do you when you love? This is where I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be where? What movie do you remember? Funny Face,
Speaker 1: which was which was about three years old? That what? No,
Speaker 1: But what was great about it was there's a part
Speaker 1: in Funny Face when Kate Thompson and Andre Heppurn get
Speaker 1: up and do a number called on how to Be
Speaker 1: Lovely Together. Kay Thompson got up by the screen and
Speaker 1: did the numbers. So and it was, you know, fun
Speaker 1: watch the movie. The movie was over, everybody starts to go,
Speaker 1: so I think, well, I'm supposed to go to I
Speaker 1: still don't know quite why I'm here, and it certainly wasn't.
Speaker 1: Lucy was saying, you know, stay around a little boy
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Wasn't that. So we got to
Speaker 1: the front door. I was thanking Lucy for the evening.
Speaker 1: She said, well, have you signed the papers yet? And
Speaker 1: I said, put papers. I want you another contract. And
Speaker 1: I said, well, nobody's ever mentioned we're doing business, yes,
Speaker 1: you idiot, nobody's ever mentioned anything about a contract or anything.
Speaker 1: And she said give them the address tomorrow and signed
Speaker 1: the paper anyone, So I was under contract. Then Todesku
Speaker 1: didn't pay us much money at all, but it was
Speaker 1: like a masterclass for me. That's when I first met
Speaker 1: Bettie Davis. Bettie Davis came to l A in a
Speaker 1: play called The World of Carl Sandberg. So she took
Speaker 1: us to the play and then took us backstage afterwards
Speaker 1: to meet Betty Davis and Vivian Lee. Came a duel
Speaker 1: of angels, and so she went backstage and settled it vivianly.
Speaker 1: It took us with her. Anytime there was somebody like that,
Speaker 1: Noel Coward or Marlena Dietrich, she would take us there
Speaker 1: pick up the tabs because again she knew she wasn't
Speaker 1: paying enough money to keep for us to be able
Speaker 1: to do that. So we got this terrific education and
Speaker 1: she also now Desi at this point was womanizing. He
Speaker 1: wasn't around much. So she would get movies that we
Speaker 1: wanted to see her hadn't seen because they weren't that
Speaker 1: accessible in those days, and run them at her house.
Speaker 1: Or she would show us I love Lucy's show. She'd
Speaker 1: done bad ones and show us why they didn't work,
Speaker 1: then show us a good one and why it did work.
Speaker 1: She all. So, the first day any of us were
Speaker 1: in a contract there and we first met, she arrived,
Speaker 1: she's just gone to a bank and she got twelve
Speaker 1: savings accounts that she opened, put like fifty dollars in,
Speaker 1: and she gave us in each of our names, gave
Speaker 1: us the books, and she said, every week you have
Speaker 1: to put something away. And we were, as I say,
Speaker 1: making very little money, and say, Lucy, you know we
Speaker 1: don't barely enough to to live on. She said, it
Speaker 1: can be only five dollars, but every week put something away.
Speaker 1: You won't miss it. It'll add up. Very maternal, and
Speaker 1: she said, no matter what the thing you must do
Speaker 1: is have enough money that you don't have to make
Speaker 1: decisions based on money. For a kid from Colfax, Washington,
Speaker 1: this was just invaluable. I've been to college, but I
Speaker 1: never had these kind of life lessons. In the course
Speaker 1: of it, she meant, my folks, and she got to
Speaker 1: know me. She said to me early on, you can
Speaker 1: do this as an actor. But she said, and I
Speaker 1: think you could do well, but it's not gonna make
Speaker 1: you half babe. This is not the right line of
Speaker 1: work for you. And she said, you love old films,
Speaker 1: you love history, you love everything about the business. And
Speaker 1: you're a journalist and major in college. We have enough actors.
Speaker 1: You should write about movies. And the first thing you
Speaker 1: should do is write a book. She said. It doesn't
Speaker 1: even have to be a good book, but find a
Speaker 1: subject about the movies that nobody's done and write a
Speaker 1: book about it. And I said why, She said, if
Speaker 1: you write a book, it shows you have the discipline
Speaker 1: to sit down and do that. Yes, I did. What
Speaker 1: it was a book about the oscars? Is this the
Speaker 1: book right here? Oh my god? Yeah, academy words the
Speaker 1: listeners to know that stunned expression. Yes, indeed, a copy
Speaker 1: of the book. Yeah, and that is amazing. Yes, there
Speaker 1: he was. Do you think you clearly make a choice
Speaker 1: at this point in your life made for you well.
Speaker 1: The choice was kind of made for me because I
Speaker 1: was not getting parts like Night mus Fall that I
Speaker 1: love doing. And I did a soap opera for a
Speaker 1: couple of years called The Young Married's. I was always
Speaker 1: in a suit with the tie and with a briefcase,
Speaker 1: helping the plot along. But it wasn't interesting, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't interesting. Did a lot of commercials. I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: if this is the best I can do at this point,
Speaker 1: I gotta get out of this altogether, because I would
Speaker 1: look at a part and I think George Bopard could
Speaker 1: do this so much better than I can, or Tony
Speaker 1: Perkins would be great in this. He fell out of love. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was on stage struck an example. Instead, Robert
Speaker 1: decided to pursue a career as a writer in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: and he continued to land himself in right time, Right
Speaker 1: place situations. He interviewed actress Olivia to have aland, who
Speaker 1: later called on him to escort her to a tribute
Speaker 1: to Betty Davis. Being friendly with the Haviland led to
Speaker 1: an appearance on the Dinah Shore Show. There, he confronted
Speaker 1: a furious Shelly Winters about her false Academy award nomination
Speaker 1: to claim people took note that Robert Osborne knew his stuff.
Speaker 1: He met with Teach Wilkerson Miles, the publisher of The
Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter, but the interview fell flat. One day, an
Speaker 1: old friend who worked at the Reporter called. She had
Speaker 1: a plan to get him in, but Robert Osborne still
Speaker 1: had a day job and I said, well, I'm working
Speaker 1: in the box office of the Greek Theater. And she said, well,
Speaker 1: can you get off for this two week period? Thank Grant,
Speaker 1: who writes the main column Rambling Reporter, is staying in
Speaker 1: vacation and they've asked me to write the column for him.
Speaker 1: And she said, I'll tell them I will, and then
Speaker 1: at the last minute I'll tell him I can't for
Speaker 1: some reason. I'll recommend you do it. They'll have to
Speaker 1: get somebody to do it. This is your life story. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of struggle in there beforehand, but once
Speaker 1: it started, it started going, it really started. But this
Speaker 1: is a great opportunity for you. Yeah, so I got
Speaker 1: called in. I had stories ready, I've been doing it
Speaker 1: for about three days. I'm gonna call from teaching Wilkerson
Speaker 1: Miles and she said, do you work for us? And
Speaker 1: I said, no, I don't, but I'm just coming in
Speaker 1: to help out. She said, would you like to work
Speaker 1: for us? And I said yes I would. She said, well,
Speaker 1: you've got a job. It's lu come up here now.
Speaker 1: So I showed up for work. She was not around.
Speaker 1: She was on some trip. The editors said, well, I
Speaker 1: don't have any room for you in here, so just
Speaker 1: kind of wander around and get to know the paper.
Speaker 1: When she comes back, we'll ask her what she plans
Speaker 1: for you to do. Just before she came back, Marjorie,
Speaker 1: who wrote a column called on Location where you go
Speaker 1: visit film sets for the paper. She got in a
Speaker 1: fight at the paper and she quit. And when she
Speaker 1: was going out the door, they said, what are we
Speaker 1: gonna do your columns? Do you have to have a
Speaker 1: column for tomorrow? She said, have Osborne do it. He's
Speaker 1: not doing any anything around. Isn't it amazing how people
Speaker 1: who don't know these kinds of businesses, like the newspaper business,
Speaker 1: how it's really true? How do you become the drama critic? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're writing the gardening column and the drama critic drops
Speaker 1: dead at his typewriter, and like Osborne get over here
Speaker 1: and and so that's exactly what's right here. So all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I wasn't writing for the in the
Speaker 1: editorial department. I had a column. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about that? I loved it, except I don't think I
Speaker 1: was very good at it because I'll tell you what,
Speaker 1: it really is supposed to be a gossip column, or
Speaker 1: at least have inside dirt. And I never felt comfortable
Speaker 1: intruding upon people to want to keep a secret, because
Speaker 1: I think secrets are important to have. You're very discreet.
Speaker 1: I've been around you many, many hours, and you're never seen.
Speaker 1: So there's a story that so and so to me,
Speaker 1: and you never get into that, and so that was
Speaker 1: problematic for you, and writing that it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's so. I'd worked for during one period during
Speaker 1: for a PR firm, and for a while Rock Hudson
Speaker 1: was a client of ours, so I knew him well,
Speaker 1: and so I knew when he got AIDS that he
Speaker 1: had AIDS, but I would not write about that. At
Speaker 1: that time, I was also doing the evening news because
Speaker 1: all TV stations at one point had entertainment reporters. The
Speaker 1: Lady Who a wonderful lady, Marsha Brandwyn, who was the
Speaker 1: kind of news head there, and I got in a
Speaker 1: big argument that she knew I knew about Rock Hudson,
Speaker 1: and she said You've got to go on the air
Speaker 1: with that, and I said, no, he doesn't want that. Know,
Speaker 1: this is a very sick man. I said, if it
Speaker 1: was the president that affects all of us in this country,
Speaker 1: he's an actor. So I wasn't that good at that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I wrote a lively column and
Speaker 1: an interesting one. How long did you write the column
Speaker 1: for Oh Boy? For about twenty years? So you're doing
Speaker 1: the Reporter. It's twenty years at the Reporter? And then okay.
Speaker 1: Then the CBS morning program in New York asked me
Speaker 1: if I do entertainment reports at night in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: that could be put on the air on a new
Speaker 1: CBS morning program and the next day. I'd always wanted
Speaker 1: to live in New York, so I said, what if
Speaker 1: I did them live in New York. The minute I
Speaker 1: got to New York, I thought, I can't ever go back.
Speaker 1: What about New York? Appealed to some more serious to know.
Speaker 1: Every time I was in New York, I felt alive.
Speaker 1: I saw people reading books and I saw there was
Speaker 1: so much activity going on. Yes, and it was also cars,
Speaker 1: and you only you had to drive to get anywhere
Speaker 1: on the New York. You're on the street, you run
Speaker 1: into somebody and you go have a drink with them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I loved all that. That's when Dorothy Lamore
Speaker 1: came to town and she said, look, they're honoring Jimmy Stewart.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come back for two days. Why don't you
Speaker 1: take me to the Jimmy Stewart Thing. I have the
Speaker 1: tickets and everything, and then we'll finally have that dinner
Speaker 1: the next night. So I said, where would you like
Speaker 1: to have the dinner and she said, well at one
Speaker 1: when I was a star. That's about the only place
Speaker 1: that's still in New York. That was around when when
Speaker 1: I used to come to New York. So I took
Speaker 1: out the Jimmy Stewart thing and that night she said, look,
Speaker 1: I got a problem. I'm doing some promotional work for AMC,
Speaker 1: and the people at AMC want to take me to dinner.
Speaker 1: And the only night I can do it is the
Speaker 1: night we were going to go to twenty one? Would
Speaker 1: you mind if very nice guy Brad Siegel and a
Speaker 1: publicity guy with him, Jim Weiss, if they joined us,
Speaker 1: and I said no, not at all. And we all
Speaker 1: just sat around and at her favorite table and we
Speaker 1: talked and told stories and all of that. And soon
Speaker 1: after Brad called me and he said, you know a
Speaker 1: lot about movies and I said, yeah, I guess I do.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, we're going to get rid of
Speaker 1: our afternoon guy at AMC. I'd love you to come
Speaker 1: and be the afternoon guy. This was a big deal
Speaker 1: and I thought it's perfect for me. Everything was negotiations
Speaker 1: were underway. All of a sudden he called. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not going to be here. I'm leaving. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go work for Ted Turner in Atlanta. And I
Speaker 1: was really disappointed because I like Brad's siegal a lot.
Speaker 1: And uh. A couple of months went by and then
Speaker 1: he called and he said, Hey, have you signed with
Speaker 1: the AMC thing yet? And I thought he was badgering
Speaker 1: me to and I said no, no, but I got
Speaker 1: the papers all do He said, well don't. Ted's gonna
Speaker 1: start his own movie channel and I want you to
Speaker 1: be the head guy. He said, I just want to
Speaker 1: tell you if you come with TCM, you'll start with
Speaker 1: only six million viewers. If you go with am C,
Speaker 1: you'll have sixty million. If you come with t c M,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to come to Atlanta at least once
Speaker 1: a month. If you go with a m C, you
Speaker 1: can work in New York. But the library, he said,
Speaker 1: if you come with t c M, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: the MGM Library, the Archaeo Library, the Warner Brothers Library,
Speaker 1: and all of that. And so there was really no choice.
Speaker 1: They launched TCM. You as of that vehicle. Now, I
Speaker 1: want to go back to something you said, which is
Speaker 1: that you saw that film business had changed, and you
Speaker 1: were in those rooms with those people and you were
Speaker 1: their friend, and then realism came. What was a movie
Speaker 1: you saw at that period that you said to myself,
Speaker 1: my god, the movies have changed. Well, Easy Rider. I
Speaker 1: happen to be in London, a place I never went
Speaker 1: to very often, but I happened to be at the
Speaker 1: Royal Court Theater. In the row in front of me
Speaker 1: was Dennis Hopper, who had just come back from I
Speaker 1: believe the can Film Festival where they showed Easy Rider
Speaker 1: and it won some award, or maybe it was the
Speaker 1: Venice film test whatever, and they were talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I thought the way the papers were writing about that,
Speaker 1: I thought, this is something very strange that that movie
Speaker 1: about a couple of motorcycle guys on cycles and no stoking,
Speaker 1: a lot of grass stories and no plot. You know,
Speaker 1: this is this is really a seminal change. I think
Speaker 1: that was a big turning. Do you think that the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War was responsible for that change? I think I
Speaker 1: think Kennedy being assassinated changing has changed the world. That
Speaker 1: shot changed everything about America and made a cynical and
Speaker 1: made people discontent angry. You know, for me, when I
Speaker 1: was young, there was a man who when you saw
Speaker 1: this man on TV, he was the movie business, and
Speaker 1: that was Walt Disney. And to me, you are the
Speaker 1: Walt Disney of your generation. You come on TV and
Speaker 1: right away people because you have become so synonymous. I mean,
Speaker 1: people just love you, they love your show, and you
Speaker 1: mean the movie business. To do you sense that when
Speaker 1: you're out of the street with people. I get a
Speaker 1: sense of that, but I honestly don't see it. Who
Speaker 1: do you think you're talking to when you talk to
Speaker 1: the camera when you do the three people? I talked
Speaker 1: to my aunt who lives on a farm who loves
Speaker 1: old movies but doesn't know much about him. I can't
Speaker 1: say Berta Lucci without explaining that he's a director. I
Speaker 1: also talked to a guy that is now a young man,
Speaker 1: but he was in his early twenties worked for the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter. That called me one time and said, you know,
Speaker 1: I just saw this great movie the other night. I
Speaker 1: was wondering if the lady in it made any of
Speaker 1: the movies. I'd like to see some of those movies.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, what's that was the movie? Said
Speaker 1: I didn't get the name of it. Well, who's the actors?
Speaker 1: I don't know what her name was. Will describe the
Speaker 1: movie to me. He described it and it was gilded
Speaker 1: with three to Hayworth. He's interested in movies. He wants
Speaker 1: to learn about movies and all of that. And I'm
Speaker 1: also talking to a friend of mine who died recently,
Speaker 1: called Robert Rosterman in Chicago, who knows as much about
Speaker 1: movies as any of us know. And he worked for
Speaker 1: years as a booker for twenty century Fox. Kind yeah,
Speaker 1: but he was a dedicated movie fan. But I want
Speaker 1: to say something in each introduction, that's also going to
Speaker 1: be news to him. So I tried to gear it
Speaker 1: for those three people, my aunt and my friend John
Speaker 1: and Robert Rostherin to cover all basses. Robert Osborne is
Speaker 1: eight one. Last year, I went to a book party
Speaker 1: for Keith Richards. I found myself seated directly opposite Richards
Speaker 1: and his wife, Patty Hanson. The long story short as
Speaker 1: Patty Hanson says, we just so love you, Alec, we
Speaker 1: love you on that TV show, and I thought, oh
Speaker 1: good God, to go. Patty Hanson to Keith Richards, don't
Speaker 1: watch thirty Rock. This is preposterous. She's just being so polite,
Speaker 1: and she says, what's that show? She says, it's Keith,
Speaker 1: that show we watch every week. We watched and Keith
Speaker 1: Richards looks at the Eagles. We watch you on turn
Speaker 1: a Classic Movies Man every weekend. It was so fantastic.
Speaker 1: We love that show. And I thought Osbourne has staged
Speaker 1: me again. M take a listen to our archive more
Speaker 1: in depth conversations with artists, performers, and policymakers like Martin Horn,
Speaker 1: former head of New York City's Department of Corrections and Probation.
Speaker 1: I would legalize drugs across the board. You would really
Speaker 1: legalize which draft all of them? You would legalize all drugs. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty well stunned well, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that while I worked for a governor
Speaker 1: or a mayor. Learn more about the impact of the
Speaker 1: drug war from Martin Horn and David Simon of The
Speaker 1: Wire and Here's the Thing dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is produced by Emily Boutine and Kathy
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Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Oh,