1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode thirty four, and we 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: are recording this at the end of February, which is 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: just a few short days before Sarah is done with 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: maternity leave, which is why we are recording all these 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: right now, trying to get her get our stock up 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: before we go back. So, Sarah, how are you feeling 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: about it? I yeah, that was my deep sigh. I 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: feel I feel really a lot of mix of things, 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: which I think is probably pretty common for women going 19 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: back to work after the you know, three month leave 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: or twelve weeks. That's pretty fairly common, at least in 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 1: the United States. And that's I'm excited to some extent. 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm excited to have a little bit more autonomy during 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: the day, not be dependent on when a baby needs to, 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, be held, although I will be dependent on 25 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: the timeframe of the pump, and I'm excited to have 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: those adult interactions. I'm excited to see my patients, although 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm sort of terrified that there's going to be a 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: floodgate effect because I've been gone that I won't be 29 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: able to handle. I'm super anxious about the milk thing, 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: which we've talked about before. I probably need to take 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: a lot of deep breath and get over the fact 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: that it's just going to be what it's going to be. 33 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm already having some minor supply issues, 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: which I don't really have any reason for because I've 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: been around Genevieve my baby the whole time, feeding on demand, 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: so it doesn't really make sense that I wouldn't have 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: enough for her. But there's a huge emotional component to that. 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: And then add the fact that I'm going to be, 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, adding the challenge of pumping, and I just 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: I feel a lot of trepidations about it. And the 41 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: truth is, I'm just trying to get over the fact 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: that however long she gets smoked from me is just 43 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: going to be what it is. Yeah, and that's okay. 44 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: I'll try my best. Just always tech from our you know, 45 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: because I think some of our listeners might be worried 46 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: listening to this because you're a physician. It's not that 47 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: medically she needs to no, absolutely, medically, I know she 48 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: would be okay. It's really it's more, it's really, to 49 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: some extent, it's I mean, it's a little bit for 50 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: her for those incremental possible benefits, especially because she is 51 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: so young, she's only two and a half months old, 52 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I'd feel like they were they were almost really are 53 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: very minimal benefits after six months, but she's young, but 54 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: that's minimal. It's more because I wanted to maintain want 55 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: to maintain that nice breastfeeding relationship. I want the convenience 56 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: of being able to feed her, you know, when we're 57 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: out and about without worrying about bottles. I don't want 58 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: to second guess myself every time I try to feed her, 59 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: like am I able to satisfy her? Like? That becomes 60 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: very anxiety provoking and a big head game that I 61 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to get into. And it's because I've enjoyed 62 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: having breastfeeding relationships with my other kids, particularly my first, 63 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: and I was hoping i'd be able to do that. 64 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: And there is you know, pumping is really easy for 65 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: a lot of women. And we've talked about this. I 66 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: mean not easy, but there's a spectrum of how easy 67 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: it is for different people. And then there's this whole 68 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: culture of it being a very heroic thing to do, 69 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: whereas it's actually really not that easy for a lot 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: of people. And maybe it would be more heroic for 71 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: me to not do it because it's some extent I'm 72 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: taking away from time for my husband and time for 73 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: my other kids. So it's really complicated. So yeah, I've 74 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: got a lot of thoughts going on. I am excited 75 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: to like have sort of I am excited to get 76 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: back into that work frame of mind and the you know, 77 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: mentoring people and talking to patients and getting into that 78 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: group again, that part because you have your medical your 79 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: new residency program is starting out too. It's funny, I 80 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: haven't even my mentals. We're on a little bit of 81 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: a lull there to some extent because we're waiting to 82 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: find out who matches with us, which we're going to 83 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: find out and just well maybe by the time this 84 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: airs that that's very, very exciting. And as soon as 85 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: we find that out, we're going to be going into 86 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: a flurry of preparations, making their schedules, you know, connecting 87 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: with them, et cetera. But yeah, right now I'm focused 88 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: a little bit more on the patient care aspects, just 89 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: because that's I think, what's going to smack me in 90 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: the face the first day I come back. Well, that 91 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: that provides a great segue to the body of this episode, 92 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: which is career crafting. We are talking about shaping your 93 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: job to work right for you and Sarah, I think, 94 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: you know what's kind of cool about what you do. 95 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know some of physician work obviously, you 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: see patients, you do sort of similar procedures or similar visits, 97 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: but you've been kind of able to shape different specialties 98 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: and then adding in that medical education component, so and 99 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: then you do this other stuff too, I mean on 100 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: the side, So, how have you been able to shape 101 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: your job to work that way? Like what goes into that? 102 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: You know, A lot of it has been patients and 103 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: time and a lot of pondering and thought about what 104 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: I really wanted my work life to look like and 105 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: I think I'm excited for you to delve into your 106 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: journey because it's similar. You sort of start on one path, 107 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: and I think it is very tempting to get locked 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: into the traditional expression of that path. So for example, 109 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: if it's pediatric endochronology, you know, seeing patients all week long, 110 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: or perhaps being a researcher. I knew I didn't want 111 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: to go the research route, so I started. I started 112 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: sort of the traditional way after finishing my training and 113 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: was doing nine clinic sessions a week, meaning nine half days, 114 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: which is pretty heavy. At more academic centers they do less. 115 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: But I purposely chose a place that was more clinical 116 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be research based, and found 117 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: myself seeing a lot of patients all the time, which 118 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: was probably good for me because I got a lot 119 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: of practice to being efficient and really seeing a wide 120 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: variety of things right out of training, which was awesome. 121 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: But about two years in it started I would look 122 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: at my schedule and it felt like this sort of 123 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: treadmill like that I couldn't get off of, Like when 124 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: would I get to do something else? When would I 125 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: ever get time to pursue some of these you know, 126 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: interesting potential research projects, or even though I said I 127 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: didn't love research, there were some clinical questions I wanted 128 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: to look into. When would I get more time to 129 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: dedicate to teaching, When would I perhaps get to demonstrate 130 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: some leadership potentials and you know, take over a small 131 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: program or something like that. And so I started just 132 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: to keep my eyes open for what those opportunities might be. 133 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: And in my case, two things kind of jumped out 134 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: and I didn't seek them out. I just sort of 135 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: went down the paths as they opened up. And I 136 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: think that's important because sometimes I think people do try 137 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: to force things, and I do think some patience is necessary. 138 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know, people talk about millennials, Oh, 139 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: I need to be following my passion, and the traditional 140 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: stories they quit something abruptly and then end up floundering around, 141 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: and that's, you know, when that works out, wonderful, But 142 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: that's not always a practical thing to do. Sometimes, if 143 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: you give it some time, the more gradual approach does work. 144 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: And I'll just use my example. I found out that 145 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: our program was starting a residency, and I heard them 146 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: announce who the program director was going to be and 147 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: in one of my meetings with one of the leadership 148 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: of the hospital, I sort of casually mentioned, you know, 149 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: is there an associo program director because that may be 150 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: something I'd be interested in, And you know, sure enough, 151 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: that person was excited that I was interested in it. 152 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: Nobody had expressed interest. I do think my interest was 153 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: well received because on a number of occasions there had 154 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: been meetings to come to to talk about stuff, and 155 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: I just showed up. So by just coming on time, 156 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, during lunch hour and being present and interested, 157 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: that kind of opened up that avenue and I ended 158 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: up accepting the position. And then so ever, since December 159 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen, I have had a portion of my 160 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: job dedicated to planning our upcoming residency program, which for 161 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: me serves two kind of answers two of my strengths 162 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: and things. I enjoy the planning aspects because really a 163 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: lot of it is kind of planning, especially as we're 164 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,119 Speaker 1: building a new program, and the fact that I really 165 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: like to mentor and that I have pretty passionate feelings 166 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: about the direction that graduate medical education should take. So 167 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: that was one tweek. Another thing that just kind of 168 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: evolved is the fact that when I came to accept 169 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: my job, I actually inherited a large population of patients 170 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: in a rather unusual niche becoming much more mainstream now, 171 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: but that is transgender medicine, and I had never done 172 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: it before, and it was something that I sort of 173 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: had to learn from the person who I ended up 174 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: taking over for. But it turned out that I really 175 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's very nuanced, it's very challenging, but it's 176 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: very interesting. And so that has become probably twenty percent 177 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: to thirty, maybe twenty percent of my clinical practice, which 178 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: is really interesting and has actually given me an area 179 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: that I can be a bit of an expert in, 180 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: whereas you wouldn't necessarily think that right out of four 181 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: years out of training. But because it's an unusual area 182 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: and I gained so much experience so fast, I was 183 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: able to craft that part of my job. So I 184 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: had that I had the graduate medical education. And then 185 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: about a year and a half ago, I also decided 186 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: that I wanted a little bit more time at home, 187 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: not for the sake of my kids, but more for 188 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: the sake of me feeling like I was missing out 189 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: on that time with my kids and missing out on 190 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: time to catch up with loose ends and pursue other 191 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: things that I was interested in, and so that led 192 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: to me asking for a eighty percent time decrease, which 193 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: meant for me a four day work week. And the 194 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: way that I've decided to make that work is actually 195 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: to plan my work week around what meetings and such 196 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: that I need to attend. So it's not that I'm 197 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: always off on Monday, because if I were to do that, 198 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: it could be problematic, especially with my graduate medical education responsibilities. Instead, 199 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: I I choose four days per month that I'm going 200 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: to be off, or really five days if it's a 201 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: five week a month, and then I'm done with it. 202 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: And then between those three things, I feel like I'm 203 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: doing so much less of the grind. I'm seeing fewer 204 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: of certain types of patients that I don't enjoy seeing 205 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: as much. And I don't want to talk about specifics 206 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: because that doesn't need to be on the podcast, but 207 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: it really has shaped my practice and my job experience. 208 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: It is something that really I think answers to my 209 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: strengths and I think in the end it's only going 210 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: to be of benefit to everyone. And if I hadn't 211 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: gone down these avenues. I'd still be seeing just a 212 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: general mix of patients nine clinic sessions a week, and 213 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure I wouldn't be as happy with my job 214 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: as I am now. So yeah, that is my story. 215 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: Well I think it's really cool. What I think is 216 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: cool here is that, you know, Sarah found an area 217 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: to be an expert in that didn't have a lot 218 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: of people in it, so right there, she could establish 219 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: herself as an experts so newly out of school. And 220 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: there's an interesting book that came out a few years ago, 221 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: cal Newport It's So Good They Can't Ignore You, which 222 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: kind of talked about this idea of like partly creating 223 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: the job you wanted, about having this thing that people 224 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: need to come to you for because I assume that 225 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: you can build this whole practice around this, like because 226 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: other patients start coming to you because of that, right, 227 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: like people tell other people they know in that community. 228 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: And then yeah, absolutely, And it's the one area where 229 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm like sought out after, Like I'll get people on Instagram. 230 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: Please don't do that, by the way, but I will. 231 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: I need to get in with you, you know, like 232 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: so and it isn't because I'm amazing because it's just 233 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: because I happened to be at the right place, right 234 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: time and expressed an interest in helping out. So I 235 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 1: think actually, on that cal Newport note, didn't you talk 236 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: about how you know it doesn't have to be something 237 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: that you were naturally drawn to because it's not. I mean, 238 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: the truth is, I love doing it, but it's it's 239 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: not like five years ago I set out with the 240 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: passion to do that. It was just like the opportunity 241 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: opened itself up and I realized I could be good 242 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: at it and be of help in that area. And 243 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 1: that I guess sometimes your passion can come from experience 244 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: rather the other way around. Yes, be open to opportunity 245 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: because sometimes things come to you that are not what 246 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: you would have necessarily planned from the beginning. I think 247 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: it whys have sometimes being related, but it can be 248 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: a different way of getting at some of the stuff 249 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: that you are interested in before. Does that make sense? 250 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't know absolutely. I mean, I'm not going to 251 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: all of a sudden become a surgeon, but you never 252 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: know what different sorts of avenues might lead to each 253 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: other down a path that I wouldn't have expected. Because 254 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: that matter that you're going to wind up doing some 255 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: research in that field, right that you I am, And 256 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: since I don't love to do research myself, I've figured 257 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: out that since I have questions I want answered, the 258 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: best thing to do is to collaborate. So I actually 259 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: have a social worker with a PhD who is interested 260 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: in potentially doing some of the sort of research type 261 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: grunt work, and then I just provide the patient population 262 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of clinical input, and we can actually 263 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: produce some interesting results in that area. And as someone 264 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: who again really I think I've said this a few times, 265 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: doesn't love doing the research myself, it's actually kind of 266 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: funny that things have come full circle. But it turns 267 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: out that you know, you can't you can't write off 268 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: anyone area because maybe you will end up doing it 269 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: in a different way than you expect it. For example, 270 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be writing the paper, but I 271 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: will be generating ideas, providing the patients and that kind 272 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: of thing, And that may have been the part of 273 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,479 Speaker 1: research you were interested in anyway, Right, I Mean, it's 274 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: that's the kind of the fun thing about crafting your 275 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: own career, And to some degree, I've been realizing that 276 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: about what I'm doing now how much it ties into 277 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: the many things I did enjoy earlier in life. Not 278 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: that I, at age ten or something, wanted to be 279 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: talking about time management all the time. I think that 280 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: would have not necessarily been a topic that I would 281 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: have chosen per se. That that is more something I 282 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: came to partly because of the you know, being open 283 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: to opportunity that it was something I was writing about 284 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: occasionally that people then reacted well to. I wound up 285 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: doing a book proposal that got it that in sort 286 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: of a backhanded way, and the publisher that finally made 287 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: an off run it was like, well, it's the time 288 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: management angle that we think is really going to be 289 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: the important thing in here. And so that's what one 290 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight hours my first time management book 291 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: came out. I'm going to ask you when you were 292 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: writing that book, did you at that point imagine yourself 293 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: speaking and blogging and doing all the other things that 294 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: you do now, or were you at that point just thinking, Okay, 295 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to be a writer and see what happens. Well, 296 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I always myself as a writer. The writing part is 297 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: how I came into the time management stuff. It was 298 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: that I was casting around for different book ideas, and 299 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: I'd written a couple of books, but you know, nobody's 300 00:14:54,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: heard of them. But anyway that you know, this was 301 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: an angle that was more marketable and that was exciting. 302 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: But now it turns out to be a good topic 303 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: to speak about, like everyone needs the time management. Speaker 304 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: of people always like, oh, that sounds like something that 305 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: would be useful, and you know, companies needed for their employees, 306 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: and people like to talk about it at conferences. But 307 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, so when I was little, I loved writing, 308 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: and so I'd always wanted to be a writer. But 309 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: there were other interests I had too, which were performing. 310 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: I did a lot of singing and dancing and drama 311 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and really enjoyed being up 312 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: on stage. I did. I was really into math, which 313 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: is seems sort of like a totally different thing when 314 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: I was growing up, But you know that I had 315 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: this interest in writing, I have these interest in performing, 316 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: and I have this interest in math, which is a 317 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: totally different thing. And then I was also in college, 318 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: late high school and college I realized I really enjoyed economics. 319 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: So there were all these different paths. It's kind of 320 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: thinking like, well, Do I want to go be an 321 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: economics professor? Do I want to pursue math in some way? 322 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: Do I want to you know, try to be a 323 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, choreographer because I was actually doing a lot 324 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: of choreography for a while, or you know, the writing, 325 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: like how does one make a living as a writer? 326 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: I guess I should go the journalism angle, because that's 327 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: a job I know exists to a degree, not so 328 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: much anymore very well, but you know, the people do 329 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: get jobs as journalists, So that's maybe what I should do. 330 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: And you know, so I've done a lot of different things, 331 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: but at all at this point has all of those 332 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: pieces are coming back into it, And it's really just 333 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: about over time, I have you know, been open to opportunity. 334 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: I've tried to do more of the things I like 335 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: and less of the things I don't. And I've discovered 336 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: that you know, speaking involves being up on stage and 337 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: the way I speak it's more of a one woman 338 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: show than it is a normal sort of speaking gig. 339 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: Like I don't use PowerPoint. I I just get up 340 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: and talk to people. And so it's almost back to 341 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: this kind of theaterist type thing that I like doing 342 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: the math is there in you know, the time management 343 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: because time is math with denominators of twenty four, one 344 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight and eight thy seven hundred and 345 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: sixty which is a numbre of hours in a year, 346 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: which which I love about it. And I love the 347 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: economics angle of it too, because it's it's trade offs. 348 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: There's there's a scarce resource, and you're trying to optimize 349 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: scarce resources, right, and so the trade offs are what 350 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: kind of make it cool that you know, one goes up, 351 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: the other goes out. There's these these categories that fit 352 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: neatly into the twenty four hours. So I love that 353 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: angle of it. I even like doing the research I've 354 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: I've done a couple of time diary projects now where 355 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: I have huge numbers of people keep track of their time, 356 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: and I get the data analysis of it. And obviously 357 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: I hire actual PhD people to do a lot of 358 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: the work on, you know, coming up with what my 359 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, whatever the stats sta of all this stuff is. 360 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: But I at least understand what that means. And I 361 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: love that part that I, you know, can at least 362 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: get that. So you know, all these pieces are coming 363 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: back into it, but none of that was necessarily apparent 364 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: ten years ago. I was thinking back to this, like 365 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: ten years ago, I was not yet. I had not 366 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: yet gotten a contract to write one hundred and sixty 367 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: eight hours. I had. It was only in early two 368 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: thousand and nine that I got my first paid speaking 369 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: gig on a time management related topic. You know, I 370 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: think about who my writing clients are, just the magazines 371 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: and newspapers I write for, Like only one or two 372 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: of them am I still writing for now that I 373 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: was ten years ago. So all of this is really about, 374 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, paying attention to what you like, what you 375 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: don't like, try to do more of the stuff you like, 376 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: list of the stuff you don't. And I think you 377 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: did a kind of cool exercise with this, like you 378 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: thought through your ideal week, right. Yes, I still have 379 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: it actually in a notebook. I drew it out with 380 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: little color code things, and I wrote like if I 381 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: could have it however I wanted. And this was back 382 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: when I was doing the nine clinical half days and 383 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: was feeling like I was just in this cycle and 384 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: couldn't escape. I was like, what would I want it 385 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: to look like? Would I want to do three half 386 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: days and then do something else, and I just drew 387 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: it out, including like what I wanted in my mornings 388 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: to look like everything like with little blocks, and I'll 389 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: maybe i'll I'll have to see how embarrassing it is. 390 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: I'll find the picture and if it's not too then 391 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: I'll post it. But that really helped me to see 392 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: that there were enough things that I could do that 393 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: would be useful for my organization, that would fill up 394 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: a week that would make me really happy and them 395 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: really happy. And I think that is what spurred me 396 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: to realize that I could make these changes. I think 397 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: that's also when I decided that I had that I 398 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: was willing to take that trade off for a little 399 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: bit of a pay cut to work the eighty percent 400 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: schedule because I sort of couldn't make the math fit 401 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: any other way in terms of having some time for 402 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: me and to pursue other pursuits like this podcast you're 403 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: listening to right now. So you did, I mean, but 404 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: when you were thinking of that ideal week, you're also 405 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: looking at what makes my organization happy too, I mean, 406 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,239 Speaker 1: because unless you're going to make a huge change, I mean, 407 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: part of crafting your career is kind of working within 408 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: your current parameters to optimize what you have. I mean, obviously, 409 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: maybe some people will decide that they do need to 410 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: make a big change, but there's often a lot more 411 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: flexibility within one's current position than you might imagine, or 412 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: at least you've found that to be the case. Yes, 413 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: especially again, once I realized that there were needs and 414 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: that I could be the one to fill those needs, 415 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: and that conveniently that would decrease certain things that I 416 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: didn't like as much, I sort of just went for it. Yeah, 417 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: I just found my charts, I typed it, which is 418 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: uncharacteristic for me, but I have on here that I 419 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: wanted to be doing patient care. This is actually fascinating 420 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: to look at right now that I wanted to do 421 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: approximately seven half days of patient care to make sure 422 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: that I had dedicated time at the end of my 423 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: work day for patient phone calls because I was eating 424 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: up my time elsewhere to have resonant see time formerly 425 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: built into my schedule. Yeah, So I mean I really 426 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: did think through what I would like and would it 427 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: be reasonable for my employers to want that as well? Yeah. 428 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: I think that question of would it be reasonable for 429 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: the people I work with is important, But there often 430 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: are ways to make these two come together, and I've 431 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: certainly seen this with people that you have to think about, 432 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: like there's the substance of your job. You want to 433 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: be doing stuff that you're happy with, but the substance 434 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: of your job. There's also, of course the ways you're working, 435 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: right the ways you're working, which could be things like, 436 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, would I be happier working from home? Occasionally 437 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: some people maybe that's a part of their job that 438 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: they really need to work on. Do I want to 439 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: be out and about more versus being in an office, 440 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: you know, So there's these different capacities that you can 441 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: kind of move on these different levers at different points 442 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: as well, and maybe even things as simple as and 443 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, but mixing up your hours 444 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: one day a week often for you know, it seems 445 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: like a major paradigm shift before your employer, it may 446 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: not be, and for you it may make things feel 447 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: less monotonous and kind of give you a day that 448 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: you can be with your kids at different times or 449 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: pursue something else that you want to do in the afternoon, 450 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem like a lot. But by making 451 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: multiple small tweaks, your your your week as a whole 452 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: can actually look a lot different and more like what 453 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: you really want it to look like. Yeah, and I 454 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: would say pay attention to what is making you happy, 455 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, as you try these different things, because you 456 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: might want to just try small experiments. There is another 457 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: book I read when I read this too, the one 458 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: about design, the one from the Design school, people from school. 459 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: But although that's a good idea too, I mean that's 460 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: which one was that. It was called Design Your Life, 461 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: and it was done by two professors in the D School. 462 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: I guess it's just this little branch of Stanford Business 463 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: School that focus focuses on intelligent business management through using 464 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: the sort of the design principles. Yeah, and that's exactly 465 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: what they did. They were they would talk about like 466 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: I actually I didn't get through the entire book, sorry, 467 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: but this idea was very valuable to me, which was, Yeah, 468 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: think about what makes you happy and then do little experiments. 469 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what people do. They build prototypes when 470 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: they're designing something, and then they see does this work? 471 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: Does this work? And you often have to go through 472 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: a lot of prototypes that don't quite work, but in 473 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: the end you're going to morph into something that is 474 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: what you want. What was your book? Yeah, and there 475 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: might be little steps that don't work out along the way, 476 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: are not exactly what you think you want to do. 477 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: I mean, so, I don't know if some people might 478 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: remember this. I came out with a book after one 479 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight hours that was called All the 480 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: Money in the World. And so for a brief period 481 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: of time, there's so like, well, is she going to 482 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: be a personal finance expert? And the answer is no, 483 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: I Am not going to be. And I can see 484 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: that on the sales that the time books sell a 485 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 1: lot better than the money books did. That doesn't mean 486 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: that overall they do. I know many people's personal finance 487 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: books have done really well, But it just wasn't a 488 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: source of passion for me in the way that time was. 489 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: And I think it may be just that concept of 490 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: time is absolutely limited and we all have the same amount, 491 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: which is absolutely not the case with money. And so 492 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: maybe it's that that trade off economic thinking that I 493 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: that I like, even though it seems like economics is 494 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: more tied to money than it is to time. But 495 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, so you try things and they may not work, 496 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: and you know, it may be things that you sort 497 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: of have to work to become a lot better at too. 498 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I can certainly tell you that my first 499 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: attempts at public speaking were semi disastrous. That you know, 500 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: it's it's a skill like anything else. You have to 501 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: learn how to do it and get comfortable with it, 502 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of time before getting up 503 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: on stage in front of lots of people and talking 504 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: is going to be remotely comfortable. But you know, so 505 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: these little pivots might not work. The book I was 506 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: talking about was Jenny Blake's Pivot method. It was, which 507 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: is the idea that instead of like, if you're thinking like, 508 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: oh I need to change careers or I need to 509 00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: change jobs, I mean, maybe you do need to ch 510 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: curves or changed it off, but you can also try 511 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: changing small things and getting feedback on what you like 512 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: and what you don't and what the world pays attention 513 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: to and what it doesn't, and then you can use 514 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: that to inform other ideas. I mean, so now I 515 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: sort of always try out ideas as, for instance, blog posts, 516 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: or sometimes we try them out as podcast ideas or 517 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: something like that, because then if people are like, oh, yeah, 518 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Then you know you're onto something. I mean, 519 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: certainly we can tell it. Like our episode on the 520 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: Planner Palooza we found out is one of our most 521 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: listened to episodes, and that's certainly getting Sarah some feedback 522 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: that that is a valuable thing to pursue as another 523 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: area expertise. And I do think what you Sarah's got 524 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: to be the only person out there who is an 525 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: expert both on transgender medicine from the physician and planning, 526 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: and on planners might be I might be pediatric transgender medicine, 527 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: and we've got to get really really specific, well not 528 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: pediatric like adolescent, Yeah, really really specific there, No, And 529 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: that does speak to something which I was going to 530 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: say that the more usual your passion is, the more 531 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: likely it is to be something that you could harness 532 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: into something that's useful. Because if your passion is just 533 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: something like running, well it's a great hobby, but it 534 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: might not be you know, it's not like there's a 535 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: million people looking for a recreational runner to monetize that 536 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: or to turn that into a career. But if it 537 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: happens to be speaking about you know, time logs and 538 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: you keep time logs for fun for three years, Like 539 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: that's really unusual. That's gonna get people interested. And that 540 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: is something that people that is going to make you, 541 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, useful, hopefully definitely clearly it has it is 542 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 1: we've been oddball and it is an angle that other 543 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: people have not necessarily talked about. But the thing you mentioned, 544 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: the running, I do think you can turn oddball aspects 545 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: into part of your life. It may need to be 546 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: part of sort of side hustle, passion project type things. 547 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: It is easier to monetize passion product Jackson's side hustles 548 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: now than it ever has been before. And maybe we 549 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,239 Speaker 1: can we can segue from from that thought into I mean, 550 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: because you decided to take a week off, I mean 551 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: a day off per week to do non medical related 552 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: work and probably a for example of how to monetize things. Yeah, 553 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: well we're not monetizing this. Well, you know, I wanted 554 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: to mention would be our previous very popular guest, the 555 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: author of lag liv who you know you hear the 556 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: story of like, oh, they quit their Wall Street job 557 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: to become a yoga instructor. Well she didn't do that, 558 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: but she took on a less a law job that 559 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: took less hours and actually became a yoga instructor on 560 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: the side. So that's a good example of someone who 561 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: did monetize a passion not as her sort of main thing, 562 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: because I think that would have well, I mean, that 563 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: would have been a large pay cut for her. But 564 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: she's able to kind of get the best of both worlds, 565 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: for lack of a better phrase, by still practicing law 566 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: probably a niche that's a niche that's fairly valuable and rare, 567 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: like you know, Cal Newport talks about, but then also 568 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: pursuing something on the side that's really fun and then 569 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: also brings in a little bit of extra cash. I mean, 570 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: my example, I've been blogging forever because I love it. 571 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: And it's really funny that you mentioned the childhood hobbies 572 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: because that was kind of also mine. I mean, blogs 573 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: obviously didn't exist back then, but I had access to 574 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: our lovely, you know, IBM computer with like one gig 575 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: on it and an electric typewriter in my room on 576 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: which I would compose really long, ridiculous stories that were 577 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 1: usually about incredibly mundane things. So I guess maybe they 578 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: were like blog They weren't blog posts to each the 579 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: third person, so they weren't really about me, but still 580 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: they were like somebody else's blog posts, right. And then 581 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: when blogging kind of exploded in the early well, I 582 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 1: guess the early explosion in the early two thousands, I thought, Oh, 583 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: this seems kind of like it might be fun, and 584 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: I kind of copied off one of my friends that 585 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: was doing it, and then realized, oh, I love the 586 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: discipline of writing every day like this is this stirs 587 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: the same passion that I had when I sat in 588 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: front of that electric typewriter in my room. And then 589 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: that kind of you know, increase and increased, and then 590 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: at certain points, you know, it's very hard to make 591 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: like actual money blogging, I mean, like money that could 592 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: support you. But at different points along the way, I 593 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: did take on some sponsored opportunities, which I don't do 594 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: anymore because I'm not in a place where I need 595 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: that and I'd really rather not. And I think I 596 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: talked about I paid for my treadmill while I was 597 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: in residency by writing a bunch of blog posts for Huggies. 598 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: I mean, who would have thought, right, like that is 599 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: completely random, but it took my passion project and turned 600 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: it into something that I was able to to actually 601 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: monetize a little bit. Now I do have ads on 602 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: my blog. I make very little from that. I joke 603 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: that it's enough to pay for my hair straightening, which 604 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: actually is pretty pricey hair straightening. But that's that's pretty 605 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: much it, and we do not at this time or 606 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: plan on monetizing the podcast. However, I do keep my 607 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: mind open that perhaps getting this experience could lead to 608 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: other opportunities down the road that could become a little 609 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: bit of a part time career for me, maybe if 610 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: I if I do end up writing the book that 611 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to write, or even maybe doing some speaking 612 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: or consulting to physicians someday. I don't know. I mean, 613 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: I have no concrete plans to do this kind of 614 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: a thing. But I like that I'm getting experienced. I 615 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: like that I'm having fun, and I know that should 616 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I need to take more of a pivot or want 617 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: to take more of a pivot, than this can only 618 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: be valuable. Yeah, I mean, I think certainly for me, 619 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: the podcast has been a great way to reach new audience, 620 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: people who you know, sometimes then become interested in my writing, 621 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: which is what I'm hoping for. And sometimes there are 622 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: companies are looking for time management speakers, and then that's 623 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: another way of monetizing it. And so, you know, hoping 624 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: the same sort of idea for Sarah eventually when she 625 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: writes her book and you guys can all go out 626 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: and buy that, which I'm sure you will because it'll 627 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: be great. But but you know, it would have been hard. 628 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, she obviously could have started a podcast on 629 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: let's say, transgender medicine, which would have been you know, 630 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: more immediately tied into not a bad idea. Yeah, maybe 631 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: I should do that too, I'll wear that out there too. 632 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes the side hustled passion projects are 633 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: a good way to take on something that's a completely 634 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: different interest of yours. It's not even totally tied into 635 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: to what you're doing in your main job. If you're 636 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: sort of crafting the main job to look more and 637 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: more like what you like, but then you have these 638 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: other interests you're just not sure how they're going to 639 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: quite fold into the same narrative. That can be something 640 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: you do on the side, and you know, people are 641 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: there are more ways to do that these days than 642 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: ever before. I mean, certainly, yes, blogs, it's hard to 643 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: make serious money, but you can make some money on 644 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: it podcasting too, obviously, people who run ads and sponsorships 645 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: get some element of financial payoff from that as well. 646 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: And you know, the whole idea of becoming an expert 647 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: at something and then speaking about it and writing about it, 648 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: those things are more accessible to people than ever before 649 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: as well. I mean, given the internet's ability to you know, 650 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: you can do webinars and have people pay for that, 651 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: and so you can become a public speaker on your 652 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: own YouTube channel. Because your own YouTube channel, you can 653 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: become a video star that way, you know, or or 654 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: Instagram be a photostar. Just all these opportunities are available 655 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: that weren't there before. And obviously, yeah, it's not a 656 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: whole lot of people make a lot of money from it, 657 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: but particularly if you are doing that main job, let's 658 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: say three or four days a week, then that can 659 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: be a great way to supplement it as well, so 660 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: so that you know that works, which which kind of 661 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: brings us to our question of finding time and prioritizing 662 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: passion projects and side hustles. So we had a question 663 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: from somebody posted on Instagram, right, yeah, someone named Stephanie 664 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: posted and just to remind everyone. That's an easy way 665 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: to post questions or suggestions, because every week I will 666 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: post you know what the episode is and give a 667 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: little bit of a teaser, So you can just write 668 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: in those comments if you have a question, or you 669 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,959 Speaker 1: can always write to Laura or me, or you can 670 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: write on her blog where she always does a weekly 671 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 1: thread discussing what we talk about. But here I'll read 672 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: the question it's said is how do you make time 673 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: and prioritize passion projects, side hustles, et cetera. I am 674 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: working part time studying to be an occupational therapist and 675 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: also have a two year old and boyfriend. I'm also 676 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: trying to pursue acting. I would love to spend time 677 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: on my days off at home to work on stuff, 678 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: but I'm worried I'm spending too much time on it 679 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: and not enough with my son. Hmm. Yeah, it's hard 680 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: to define what enough enough enough, And that's the quiet 681 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: problem with this. Like if there were some specific number, 682 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: like you know, then people could could execute against that 683 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: and all would be well. But I think the question 684 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: of enough is that it gets into these narratives of 685 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: what mothers are supposed to be doing and that's just 686 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: hard to ever know. I mean, the question you certainly 687 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: need to know. Do you do you feel satisfied with 688 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: the amount you're spending with your son? That's an important question. 689 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: Is he doing well? Does he seem like he needs 690 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: more time with you? That's another important question, Or with 691 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: your boyfriend or whoever, whoever, if there are other parental 692 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: figures in his life. I don't know exactly what the 693 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: situation is here, but yeah, I think that. I mean, 694 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of tracking time, obviously, but particularly 695 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: when you have lots of different things going on, I 696 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: think tracking time is particularly helpful because it helps you 697 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: see what sort of space you are devoting to each 698 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: of these aspects in life. And you know, it can 699 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: be very easy to feel like, oh, well, you know, 700 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: I had a lot of crazy stuff going on at 701 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: work today, so you know I'm a failure because I 702 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: didn't do any studying on this occupational therapy study course, 703 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't spend enough time with my 704 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: kid or whatever. But then you know another day you 705 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: are doing more of the studying and more of the 706 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: kid time. And I think that that's a very helpful 707 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: thing to see on a time like that you you 708 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: might track your time and discover that you aren't spending 709 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: nearly enough time studying, which sometimes happens. People see that 710 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: and then they decide, well, I need to put that in. 711 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: Like I would feel a lot more comfortable in my 712 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: program if I knew for sure I had found an 713 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: extra four hours per week to study. Well, four hours 714 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: is not that much, you know, you can accomplish a 715 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: lot in four focused hours. But then saying well, exactly 716 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: where am I going to try to stick that in? 717 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: And then people decide, okay, well, maybe, like you know, 718 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: Saturday morning would be a good time to you know, 719 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: put the two year old with friends or family or 720 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: whatever and have that time available for studying or something. 721 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: But you know, pursuing acting is a really fun thing 722 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: to do. I think one way to sort of put 723 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: a toe in this is just an audition for a 724 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: community theater production. They're always going on it. You can 725 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: always find one if you live in any sort of 726 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 1: reasonable sized community, which I'm going to guess that she 727 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: is if she's you know, working at school and act 728 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: and acting, So you just try out for one, Like 729 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: usually it's only going to be sort of six to 730 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: eight weeks I would guess what for an adult production 731 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: of rehearsal, and you probably oll rehearse like once or 732 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: twice a week for that time. So let's say it's 733 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: twice a week for eight weeks. You know that is 734 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: not a huge time commitment. That's going to be five 735 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: to six hours a week. You're going to do the 736 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: show at the end of it, and then you can say, like, hey, 737 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: was that something that fit with my life. Maybe it did, 738 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: maybe it didn't, But it's not a permanent thing, like 739 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: you haven't done anything that's you know, completely unchangeable in 740 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: the rest of your life. It's two months that you've 741 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: devoted to this, and then you know, like, is this 742 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: something that I could do another show per year, or 743 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: maybe this is just something I do once per year, 744 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: And we decide that those two months are going to 745 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: be a little bit busier than the rest of life. 746 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: But that's also fun because it allows me to keep 747 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: my hand in this too. I think that makes sense, 748 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: and I think being very specific and honest with yourself 749 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: about the time that you're going to spend rather than 750 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: it be a nebulous home working on acting, but instead 751 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: what Laura said, like, oh, I'm going to be doing 752 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: this performance, so I'm going to have these hours set 753 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: aside to do it and just sort of accepting that 754 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: and experimenting with it is a more useful way to 755 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: think of it then the more nebulous way that the 756 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: questions suggest to me. So I agree, track it, yeah, 757 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: look at it, think of it objectively. There may also 758 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: just be you know, sort of opportunities. I mean, if 759 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 1: she's a student somewhere, I mean, there were probably opportunities 760 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: around campus. There may be like student run productions that 761 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: she could just try for one see if it works, 762 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: or take an acting class, like if she's taking you know, 763 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: ot classes, maybe you could throw in an acting class 764 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: too at the same institution and see. Again. It's just, 765 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, it finds some small way to fit this 766 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: into your life. But I think especially when you are 767 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: so you have so many different things you're doing, it's 768 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: probably needs to be something that is set time in 769 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: your schedule in order to make sure it happens right. Like, 770 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, if you know you have rehearsal every Tuesday 771 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: night from six to nine, like, then you can build 772 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: that into your life. Or if you know you have 773 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: acting class every Friday from one to four in the afternoon. Again, 774 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: you can build that into your life as opposed to saying, oh, 775 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: I'd love to get into acting at some point. Well, 776 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, when is that going to happen. I don't know. 777 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: Somewhere between the other classes and the work and dealing 778 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: with the kid, right, it's not going to happen. Awesome, Well, 779 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: we should segue into our love of the week, which 780 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: actually sort of relates to that in a forced sort 781 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: of a way. No, I'm just kidding. My love of 782 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: the week this week is that, well two things. The 783 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: Wildcrats Show in particular. I gotta say it's one of 784 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: my kid's favorites and it's one of the few things 785 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: I can watch with them and feel good about. I 786 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: think we've actually mentioned it before, but not as specifically 787 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: as a love of the week. It's these two guys. 788 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: They've been doing it for years. They have a live 789 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: action part where they talk about an animal and they 790 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: teach you obscure facts about the animal to the point 791 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: where my kids can tell you like eighty different things 792 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: about a basilisk lizard and a cheetah and whatever. And 793 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: then there's a cartoon, so there's enough to keep the 794 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: kids interest, but I still feel like it's educational overall. Well, 795 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: we went to see them live this weekend and they 796 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: were just awesome. The show was so great. They were enthusiastic, 797 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: and we did because my kids loved the show so much, 798 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: Spring for the VIP tickets that allowed us to meet 799 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: them afterwards. And I didn't know what to expect. I 800 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: figured like, oh, they'll just like sign a little thing, 801 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: but they actually it was kind of like you know 802 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: in Disney when you meet the princesses. It was like that, 803 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: like they spent a few minutes. They use the kids' names, 804 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: they were wearing name pegs. They were so kind and 805 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the fact that they were 806 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: doing two shows with two meet and greets and have 807 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: that much energy. It was so impressive. So it warmed 808 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: my heart to see my kids with these guys. The 809 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: show was awesome. I love of the week. It's definitely Wildcrats, Wildcred. 810 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: So I was excused to something so that I'll throw 811 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: on an acting related one too. I was at the 812 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: Watermark Conference for Women last week speaking about time management, 813 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: and one of my fellow speakers who I did not 814 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: get to meet, but it was Reese Witherspo. Yeah, she's 815 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,919 Speaker 1: really cool and I really appreciated the way they set 816 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: this up. They did an interview with her, and I'm 817 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: going to forget the ladies Dandis she's very famous herself 818 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: as the former editor of teen Vogue. Is sort of 819 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: out talking about. Yeah, she did the interview. She did 820 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: a very good job of it, but they were talking about, uh, 821 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was it was interesting to hear Reese 822 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: Witherspoon talk about sort of her interactions with trying to 823 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: get projects, trying to get you know, even hearing her 824 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: talk about trying to when she's starting her production company, 825 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: which now there's this opening space up in Hollywood as 826 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: some of the major players have fallen, which turns out 827 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: to be a very good thing. But you know that 828 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: she's starting to exercise that power of having money, having 829 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: authority within this world, and then getting these projects done 830 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: that she wants to see done. But it was really 831 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: cool to hear her talk about that, like and even 832 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: that she had her own sort of insecurities. I mean, 833 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of crazy. She was talking 834 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: about trying to get the rights for a wild you know, 835 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: the Cheryl Straight Yeah, and I was like, what it 836 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: seems like. You know, from my author perspective, I would 837 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: find it really awesome if Reese Witherspoon were trying to, 838 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: like preak play me, but she's like, well, I was 839 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: trying to get her to take a chance on letting 840 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: me produce it as well, like not just play her 841 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: like she thought that, you know, she'd be fine for 842 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: having her play her, but to get her to produce 843 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: her and take a chance on it. She was so 844 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: worried about this, and I thought it was a really 845 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: cool thing to put out there that she was, you know, here, 846 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: this amazingly ambitious, powerful woman and you're still worried that 847 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: somebody won't take a chance on her at that. So 848 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: I was enjoyed hearing that. But also I think, hm, 849 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: I want to write some sort of epic that Reese 850 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: Witherspool will like play the main character, and that is 851 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: a good pool got to get on that excellent. So 852 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: hearing her was my love of the week. But anyway, 853 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: this has been our somewhat technically challenged episode thirty four, 854 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: hopefully our wonderful podcast producers, So shout out to Sound 855 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: Advice and Sales Phyllis and her team. Oh my goodness, 856 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: they did a wonderful job of patching together another episode 857 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: that we had major technical difficulties on, and I'm sure 858 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: they will manage to make it sound like my gutters 859 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: were not being cleaned during this whole thing, And if 860 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: you hear sounds of gutters, it's only because it was 861 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: so atrocious that even they could not help that. But 862 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: they do an amazing job so they can be our 863 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: lovable yeah too, thank you, Thank you you guys. Anyway, 864 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: episode thirty four. Career Crafting will be more back next 865 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together. 866 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 867 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, 868 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 869 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 870 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 871 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: life work together.