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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports, where in the situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, pandemic here

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Speaker 1: has really accelerated the investments that you've been advocating for

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Speaker 1: for years. Almost everyone out there is hoping that there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of return to normal by August September. In

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Speaker 1: depth conversations with the leaders in the sports industry, who

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Speaker 1: wants to be the sacrificial lambs that shows up at

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Speaker 1: the first big major sporting events were part of something

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Speaker 1: much bigger than the sports right now, and the health

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Speaker 1: and pasty of our stakeholders are both smart important every

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Speaker 1: moment I think we're all from business respective thinking about

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Speaker 1: the impact that the virus is having across the country.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm Jason Kelly.

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Speaker 1: We're here Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays to explore the big

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Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. Talk to some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest players in the industry across the globe.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this week, I got to catch up with Robert Clyde.

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Speaker 1: He is the CEO of Bundesliga International. He's responsible for

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Speaker 1: essentially taking German soccer to the world World well the

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Speaker 1: world is different, obviously, but the Buddhesliga they got to play,

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Speaker 1: They figured out a way back to the pitch. They

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Speaker 1: completed their season just a couple of weeks ago. I

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Speaker 1: caught up with him in Frankfurt via Zoom. So, Robert,

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Speaker 1: in many ways you are the envy of the sports

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Speaker 1: world because you have completed a season. Not many people

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Speaker 1: can say that here in July. Take us back if

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Speaker 1: you can, to March and to the world really coming

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Speaker 1: to a standstill and the decisions that you and the

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Speaker 1: Bundesliga had to make from then on. So yes, we

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Speaker 1: m interrupted the league on the ninth of March, and

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Speaker 1: at that time it looked like you might just be

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Speaker 1: a few weeks um and when the extension by the

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Speaker 1: German government was till the end of April, we realized

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Speaker 1: that this was gonna take longer. So quite quickly there

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Speaker 1: was a crisis management team put in place to look

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Speaker 1: at how we could do a restart and what that

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Speaker 1: would involve. One of the first things that happened is

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Speaker 1: you will know, probably was setting up a medical commission

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Speaker 1: that was working um with the local governments. In Germany,

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Speaker 1: there are sixteen states and those states are responsible for

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Speaker 1: their health protocol and decisions and working closely with them

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Speaker 1: to create what would be possible in terms. We knew

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Speaker 1: when we started again it would be without fans, that

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Speaker 1: was clear, but for the rest you can imagine in

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Speaker 1: a stadium, you've got the clubs, you've got the players,

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Speaker 1: you've got the production teams, which are important cause in

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Speaker 1: terms of pressional sport. And one of the key things

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Speaker 1: as well was also the interaction with politicians and also

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Speaker 1: with all the other stakeholders so that people understood and

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Speaker 1: this was sometimes not immediately understood that we would not

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Speaker 1: be as professional sport taking tests away from German society

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Speaker 1: that in the end it turned out to be the opposite.

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Speaker 1: We were able to contribute some um. The German government

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Speaker 1: had committed to five hundred thousand tests per week right

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Speaker 1: from the staff and those were always dedib IT. So

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Speaker 1: in summary, it was really getting the crisis management team together,

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Speaker 1: the whole of the league, working together the clubs, the

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Speaker 1: production of the medical and then also a lot of

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Speaker 1: working with the sixteen states. We played the matches in

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Speaker 1: the stadiums, so people were and the clubs were moving

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Speaker 1: and it was a mammoth task involving lots of hours

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Speaker 1: and work, and um, as everyone is seen with COVID,

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Speaker 1: we still weren't sure, no matter how much we prepared

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Speaker 1: and put in place, whether this was gonna work come

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Speaker 1: the first matchally and so tell me about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: were there moments along the way, especially before you got

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Speaker 1: back to play, where you just thought, you know what,

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Speaker 1: this isn't gonna work. We're not gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: pull this off. Um. I don't think we ever had

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Speaker 1: the mindset that this is going to work just because

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Speaker 1: you've you've got to believe it's going to happen. Is

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Speaker 1: it a challenge, yes, Is it a risk being the

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Speaker 1: first league? Yes? But it was done because there were

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Speaker 1: a number of factors. One is the Germany, in a

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Speaker 1: very tough crisis, has and continues to manage quite well.

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Speaker 1: And the second was the solidarity and the belief of

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Speaker 1: the clubs and the leagues that yes, we can do that.

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Speaker 1: That was the one thing. Were there bumps along the way?

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Speaker 1: You can't you know, account for all of players actions

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Speaker 1: or all individuals, And they were one or two um

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Speaker 1: situations which occurred which definitely questioned the whole process and

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Speaker 1: the yeah, the concept we're putting together. But in the end,

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Speaker 1: as I said, we got there and we had our

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Speaker 1: first match day on the sixteenth of May, which was

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Speaker 1: just two months after the initial stopping of the league, right,

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Speaker 1: and so once playing re started, as you say, there

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Speaker 1: were some little bumps of in I read something where

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Speaker 1: a manager I believe essentially had to be disciplined because

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Speaker 1: he needed to go out and get some toothpaste. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are the sorts of things that you probably never

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Speaker 1: thought you would have to worry about, right, No, and

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Speaker 1: that that that was the story. And the manager immediately said, look,

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Speaker 1: I made a mistake. Um, we've got to lead by example,

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Speaker 1: and so I think discipline a bit strong. But he

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Speaker 1: had to go in and do his isolation for the

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Speaker 1: fourteen day period and they get tested again until it

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Speaker 1: was negative. But exactly, Um, what seems like sort of

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Speaker 1: a small factor had big knock on effects and there

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Speaker 1: was some instances also a couple of players. But we

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Speaker 1: managed to get the testing in um and it was

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Speaker 1: a very continuous league finished now, but it was a

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Speaker 1: very um intense testing two times a week, always twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours before going into the stadium, and of course

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Speaker 1: any positive tests were then address but luckily we had

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Speaker 1: overwhelmingly negative tests. So Robert, we are bloomberg. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the economics of this. No fans in the stadiums, UH, sponsors,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you were having conversations with as well. How

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Speaker 1: do you sort of put the dollars and cents around this?

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Speaker 1: The euro I guess is more appropriate, UH, to to

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Speaker 1: understand the implications for the game and for the league,

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Speaker 1: and especially for your part of the business, the international

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Speaker 1: piece well, UM gate receipts and therefore fans or a

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Speaker 1: big part foot clubs. So there's without a doubt not

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Speaker 1: but then financially UM and they've made individual statements and

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Speaker 1: with a season which will restart on the eighteenth of September, UM,

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Speaker 1: we are working to have concepts where you know, fans

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Speaker 1: can come back, but only when it's safe UM, and

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Speaker 1: it certainly looks like at the restart they will not be.

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Speaker 1: So the there will be financial and there is financial

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Speaker 1: impact for the club's first and foremost UM from league perspective.

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Speaker 1: One of the drivers you know, to get start again

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Speaker 1: also that we could ensure other revenues which come through

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Speaker 1: our broadcast partners UM could be delivered and which is

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Speaker 1: of course also then paid on through to the clubs,

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Speaker 1: which was one of the reasons why it was really

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Speaker 1: important to see that we could get ourselves started in

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Speaker 1: the middle of May. And the other thing that was

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Speaker 1: important we might come into that as well, was working

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Speaker 1: with our partners when there was no TV, when they

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Speaker 1: had their programming grid completely empty, and what is it

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Speaker 1: that you can do in that time? We had a

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Speaker 1: many creative aspects that we looked at. We opened up

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Speaker 1: our archive, we created virtually football, which had in the end,

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Speaker 1: I mean amazing viewing figures around the world over two

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Speaker 1: million people tuning in for this virtual tournament between clubs,

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Speaker 1: players and even a referees team. So that was important. Um.

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Speaker 1: The covid UH continues to be a challenge at different rates,

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Speaker 1: as I was saying to the beginning, around the world,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be important to work closely with

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Speaker 1: the partners to ensure that they can get these programming

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Speaker 1: hours back home, albeit with a different kind of production,

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Speaker 1: which in itself has led to other points is how

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Speaker 1: do you do production where you go mover in the stadium?

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Speaker 1: Do you use sound do you not? Um? Some people

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Speaker 1: love it, some hardcore fans don't want to hear of it.

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Speaker 1: In the end, we gave them an option so you

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Speaker 1: can turn it on or not. Right, But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, talking about this whole process. The sixteenth of May,

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Speaker 1: when the restart happened, I was in touch with partners

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Speaker 1: and friends all around the world and it was you know,

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Speaker 1: to have been successful in creating this massive complex and

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Speaker 1: to also be able to support other leads. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking to leads in the US, We've been talking to

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Speaker 1: leagues all around the world who were interested in what

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Speaker 1: we were doing. Not duplicate that you can share in

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Speaker 1: the knowledge and there's start a arity that came out

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Speaker 1: of that was really quite heart warming, you know in

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Speaker 1: the time, as you know, when things are not so easy, right, well,

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Speaker 1: you let me exactly where I wanted to go next,

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Speaker 1: which is what is the single biggest piece of advice

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Speaker 1: that you give when you get those phone calls and

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Speaker 1: emails and text from leagues around the world, you know

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Speaker 1: in football and beyond, basically saying how did you pull

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Speaker 1: it off? What's the secret? What's the one thing that

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Speaker 1: you tell everyone? Be prepared to put in lots of

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Speaker 1: hours because you're talking about many stakeholders you're talking at

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Speaker 1: the in any country. I think at the political level

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Speaker 1: as well. You're talking about a medical concept which will

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Speaker 1: maybe very left, a bit right, a bit, but which

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Speaker 1: is um has to be delivered either in one area

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Speaker 1: as I've heard, like in the US, I think the

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Speaker 1: the NBA is doing it in a single vicinity. I

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Speaker 1: think it's in in a in a Disney park, or

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Speaker 1: whether you do it in multiple stadiums. It's it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's detailed, it's complex, but it can be done. And

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Speaker 1: of course, um, when it works, not just for the

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Speaker 1: first match day that you can finish the league. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's something that you know is very heartwarming as I

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Speaker 1: set on the one hand, and also the fans just

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Speaker 1: are so pleased to see back, albeit in the completely

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Speaker 1: different circumstances. Would you rather have them in the stadium

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Speaker 1: every league, every sport. But at the moment, you have

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Speaker 1: to deal with what you've got. So, Robert, why didn't

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Speaker 1: you learn from the players, because obviously they are the

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Speaker 1: ultimate product here and we're at a time when players

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Speaker 1: are thinking about health and safety, they're thinking about social justice,

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Speaker 1: they're thinking about so many things. What's your takeaway from

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Speaker 1: the player perspective? Um, I told you there are many stakeholders,

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Speaker 1: and they're the ones who are performing. They're the ones who, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're going in and out of many stadiums.

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Speaker 1: So we had a lot of discussion with them, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately in the in the league, they're contracted to their clubs,

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Speaker 1: and the clubs and the league agreed early on that

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Speaker 1: no player was going to be forced into any situation.

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Speaker 1: Quite the opposite. We spent a lot of time explained

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Speaker 1: to them the protocol, the medical, why we believe this

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Speaker 1: was probably safer than just your normal, um sort of

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Speaker 1: isolation or or yeah, walking around in society, and they

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Speaker 1: brought into this so as far as I know, in

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Speaker 1: the end, there were questions and there were some players

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Speaker 1: who said, oh, I'm not so sure, but they in

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Speaker 1: the end were convinced by it. Um and uh, we're

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Speaker 1: actually happy to get out of the training field, first

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Speaker 1: of all, and then to be playing again professional football.

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Speaker 1: And talk to me about what you saw and what

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Speaker 1: you heard both from the players, from viewers, from the

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Speaker 1: clubs themselves, and you as a fan. What was the

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Speaker 1: quality of play like from your perspective as a fan

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Speaker 1: which I am watching carefully, the the quality of play

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Speaker 1: I think becomes even more underlined because whilst you missed

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Speaker 1: absolutely the fans and the the atmosphere that's brought that

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Speaker 1: and everything you would get from from a full stadium,

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Speaker 1: you're actually then being able to hear the players speak,

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Speaker 1: You're able to hear interactions off the bench um and

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Speaker 1: to two instructions to the players, and so it was

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Speaker 1: a completely different experience, but I think from a fan perspective,

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Speaker 1: one that was really enjoyed. And what I can tell

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Speaker 1: you for sure is is obviously at the sixteenth of

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Speaker 1: May when we came back, the joy that it was

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Speaker 1: bringing all around the world, the messages of of yeah,

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Speaker 1: celebration and happiness that were coming from fans, but also

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Speaker 1: compilations that we restarted were really something to behold. We

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Speaker 1: were aware it was just one match day and we

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Speaker 1: said right from the start we've done match day one.

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Speaker 1: There are another eight to go. We just earned the

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Speaker 1: right to the next match day. We have to take

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Speaker 1: it one match at the time. Just if any and

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Speaker 1: COVID has towards us, um, don't let your guard down.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same situation today. Jeremy right now is

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Speaker 1: doing pretty well, but we are on our toes because

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Speaker 1: it is we admire us, right, So let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world, because that is your remit

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Speaker 1: is to take this league to the world. And this

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Speaker 1: was an interesting opportunity, I would imagine for you because

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Speaker 1: you had a product that almost no one else had,

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Speaker 1: really no one else had for a certain amount of time.

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Speaker 1: What did that do for you as you were talking

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Speaker 1: to partners around the world, maybe talking to folks who

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Speaker 1: you had been in discussions with for a while about

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Speaker 1: this product that that ultimately you're selling. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: two aspects I said. One was during the non programming

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Speaker 1: and what we could offer them, which showed really what

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Speaker 1: the DFL is. We're socily or were also and innovation

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Speaker 1: and the media company, and we're able to you know,

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Speaker 1: deliver two very quickly to to our partners, as I

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Speaker 1: said on digital, on round tables, on on just a

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Speaker 1: lot of innovative both tech and product stuff. To your

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Speaker 1: second point, which is that we were mid May, basically

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Speaker 1: we had the eyes of the world on us and

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Speaker 1: for at least three weeks were the only European League

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Speaker 1: that was playing. And it was a unique situation um

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Speaker 1: and it allowed I guess some people who are not

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Speaker 1: usually Buns Dagger fans, to interact and to watch. We

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Speaker 1: had incredible attention and audiences all around the world, both

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Speaker 1: through our partners and broadcasters, but also if you looked

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Speaker 1: on the digital sides there, you know, within those three

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Speaker 1: weeks bons, league, players, clubs were trending across Twitter, across Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and you know, for us it was pleasing to have

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Speaker 1: the attention of the league. On the other hand, and

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Speaker 1: we mean it seriously, it's also better for us when

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Speaker 1: all other leagues are getting back into play because we're

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Speaker 1: going back, hopefully to some level of normality and in

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Speaker 1: the end, business is going to require to pick up

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Speaker 1: and continue. And the more that are coming back um

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Speaker 1: and the more who are successful, whether we'll be all around.

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Speaker 1: What do you think from your businesses perspective, from your

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Speaker 1: part of the business, but also for the league overall?

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Speaker 1: What sticks? What have you learned that that maybe you

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Speaker 1: either wouldn't have done before or something you thought might

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Speaker 1: be a good idea that you've now accelerated some sort

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Speaker 1: of innovation either on the digital side or or or

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Speaker 1: what have you that you think all right, well, regardless

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Speaker 1: of whether they're fans and stadiums, regardless of whether there

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Speaker 1: is a global pandemic. We're definitely gonna do this going forward.

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Speaker 1: On the line broadcast, we have had and continued because

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Speaker 1: we do our own production at a very high level,

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Speaker 1: so um, we felt comfortable with that, and I think

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Speaker 1: there it was more the appreciation that we had in

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Speaker 1: the broadcasters that we are still in this. I think

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Speaker 1: on the innovation side, we did many things. Some of

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Speaker 1: that worked and some of that didn't. I would take

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Speaker 1: a couple of examples. We started doing round tables with

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Speaker 1: the players and obviously creating round tables in a virtual environment.

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Speaker 1: We did one with Tyler Adams with four key US

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Speaker 1: media institutions, and this very close interaction that was able

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Speaker 1: to be had between the journalists and Tyler allowed somehow

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Speaker 1: for a very free flowing UH conversation and one that

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Speaker 1: we probably would not have done before. Now. If we

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Speaker 1: take the US as as an example, we have many

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Speaker 1: US and American players, and whilst the fans support, you know,

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Speaker 1: a league, they also like to hear about their superstars.

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Speaker 1: Those virtual round tables are definitely going to continue because

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Speaker 1: we realized we can set them up quite easily. We

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Speaker 1: don't have to have a huge cost in terms of

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Speaker 1: getting the journalists over from the US. It is great

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Speaker 1: when they can touch and interact, but actually we can

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Speaker 1: have an offering on a localization level, which which happens,

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Speaker 1: you know, quite quite easily and cost effectively. Interesting and

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Speaker 1: so what have you learned? I guess as a leader

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Speaker 1: and a business person. I mean you've been in business.

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Speaker 1: Uh your youngish like me, but you've had some experience

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Speaker 1: in business before. I do wonder as a leader and

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Speaker 1: as a as an executive, what's your takeaway from this

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Speaker 1: in terms of managing it a team of people and

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Speaker 1: working in this remote world and having to sort of

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Speaker 1: stand something up in unprecedented circumstances. Yeah, I thought about this,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot, and I've seen a lot in

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Speaker 1: the last twelve weeks. One of the first things I

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Speaker 1: saw is that tough times are for good people. You

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Speaker 1: can really see how, you know, challenging, unusual in in

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Speaker 1: our case, unique times, how how people react. And the

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Speaker 1: good news is that, at least from my perspective. But

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Speaker 1: I've also been talking to partners in broadcasts, in our

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Speaker 1: sponsors and so on. It seems that this is a

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Speaker 1: human trade. We're actually very resourceful UM and have found ways,

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Speaker 1: whether it's new platforms or new technologies in terms of broadcasts,

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Speaker 1: or whether it's creating new ways to engage with fans

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Speaker 1: through through sponsors or through new channels. And that we are, yes,

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Speaker 1: quite resilient UM in in the way that we go about.

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Speaker 1: The second thing which was very pleasing from a league perspective,

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Speaker 1: and I see this also with other leagues, is professional

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Speaker 1: leagues and professional sports is often heavily criticized because there's

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Speaker 1: big money that is UM going around and they are

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Speaker 1: often also big salaries UM and the players often get targeted.

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Speaker 1: But the way the players and the clubs and the

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Speaker 1: communities came together to support UH their communities, whether that

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Speaker 1: was turning a stadium into a test center, whether it

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Speaker 1: was clubs actually using their staff to deliver home delivery

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Speaker 1: meals to people who were you know, at risk. There

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Speaker 1: were many of these examples in Germany. Another one was

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Speaker 1: the top four teams who are in the Champions League

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Speaker 1: gathered together and pull twenty million to put back into

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Speaker 1: the league, into women's football and into the lower leagues

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Speaker 1: to give also health there. And so you can be

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Speaker 1: UM cynical and people will be, but if you look

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Speaker 1: at the positive side. But that was the learning that

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Speaker 1: we took, and again it was good to see. So

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's safe to say this may ultimately

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Speaker 1: at least slightly changed the trajectory potentially of of football

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Speaker 1: and soccer around the world. What does the sport take

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Speaker 1: away from this? I guess um the sport first of all,

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Speaker 1: takes away that they have a big role to play

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Speaker 1: in society, I think, and that it's one that they

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Speaker 1: should take with responsibility, and that as anyone who is

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Speaker 1: experienced deeply the COVID, it has shaken business up all

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Speaker 1: around the world. And I'm not talking about sports, and

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about um pretty much any number of businesses

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Speaker 1: that you want to look at, which means we should

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Speaker 1: look at the long term, and we should look at

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Speaker 1: the sustainability, and we should look at what can be

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Speaker 1: done so that we can be prepared if a similar

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Speaker 1: situation comes along in the future. But this is in

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Speaker 1: another coronavirus stream or some other unexpected uh have me.

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Speaker 1: And it's got people thinking, and I think there will

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Speaker 1: be and I know already amongst you know, a leagues

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Speaker 1: and clubs thinking about how we can work better and

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Speaker 1: smarter for the future. All right, we're gonna leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Robert Klein, thank you so much. Look forward to uh

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Speaker 1: maybe someday taking in a match and a beer with you.

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Speaker 1: It would be an absolute pleasure, absolutely looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Be well, Thank you, Jason. And

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Speaker 1: that's Robert Clean, the CEO of Bundesliga International, joining me

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Speaker 1: from Frankfort. That conversation was part of a series of

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Speaker 1: conversations I had about sports at a Crossroads. It's a

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Speaker 1: television special on Bloomberg airing this weekend beginning Friday night.

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Speaker 1: Check that out. Part of my conversation from a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago with Lebron James is in there. I caught

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Speaker 1: up also with Rich McKay. He's the president of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Falcons and a previous guest on this pod, Rachel

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Speaker 1: Luba over at Luba Sports, agent to Trevor Bauer. She

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Speaker 1: and I talked about getting the baseball season underway and

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Speaker 1: some of the damage done between the players and the owners.

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Speaker 1: Catch us here Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays where we talk

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Speaker 1: about the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of sports. I'm Jason Kelly