WEBVTT - Make Congress Great Again!  David Davenport talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>David Davenport is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution,

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<v Speaker 1>the author of a couple of things, actually a really

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<v Speaker 1>thought provoking short piece entitled War is the New Normal

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington, which is obviously part and parcel of his

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<v Speaker 1>new book How Public Policy Became War Because four hours

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<v Speaker 1>simply isn't enough. This is Armstrong and Getty extra large.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a pleasure to be talking to David today

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<v Speaker 1>about his recent writings that his thinkings about our nation's politics. David,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a pleasure, Thank you. Good to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm reading this piece I got in my hand. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you say, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal in nineteen thirty three

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<v Speaker 1>was America's French Revolution. That's a strong statement. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you mean, Well, the French Revolution of Chris changed everything

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<v Speaker 1>in France, political, social, economic, and we think that Gurdon

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<v Speaker 1>Lloyd by co author, and I think that that's exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what Franklin Roosevelt did. He was an early practitioner of

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<v Speaker 1>the Rama Manual school of public policy. It's a shamed

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<v Speaker 1>a let of good crisis go to waste, and so

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<v Speaker 1>the crisis of the New Deal really gave Roosevelt an

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to change the presidency and the executive branch in particular,

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<v Speaker 1>and really how government and our society function and operate. Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you make the point that it fundamentally changed the way

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<v Speaker 1>legislation gets passed. What do you mean. Well, and of course,

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<v Speaker 1>even before we get to legislation, Roosevelt was what we

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<v Speaker 1>call the emperor of executive orders. He did the executive orders,

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<v Speaker 1>which is still a record to this day. But he also,

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<v Speaker 1>as a historian David Kennedy pointed out in his write

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<v Speaker 1>book on the Depression and New Deal, he quote wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>Congress like a skilled jockey unquote. Previously Congress drafted its

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<v Speaker 1>own bills, but Roosevelt started being a legislator in chief,

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<v Speaker 1>drafting the bills. Sent his famous bank bill over to

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<v Speaker 1>Congress in the morning, passed in the afternoon. Very few

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<v Speaker 1>saw it, much less read it. And so the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of the president driving the legislative agenda really was born

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<v Speaker 1>under Roosevelt, just out of curiosity, was at the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the president writing the budget and Congress rubber stamping it,

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<v Speaker 1>or did that happen at a different time. I would

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<v Speaker 1>say that happened a little later but he certainly built

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<v Speaker 1>out the branch, executive branch in a way that that

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<v Speaker 1>could happen. Uh. You know, we talked about Roosevelt and

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<v Speaker 1>all of his alphabet soup agencies that he created and

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<v Speaker 1>that became, you know, the enormous administrative state that we

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<v Speaker 1>all know about today. So he was also the father

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<v Speaker 1>of the administrative state. And you fast forward and you

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you get further and further away from bipartisanship

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<v Speaker 1>as you go when you get to today where politicians

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<v Speaker 1>regularly tell us, including President Trump, that look, we need

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<v Speaker 1>to have this many senators and this many many House

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<v Speaker 1>members to accomplish what we want to accomplish. In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have the entire number of people you

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<v Speaker 1>need for a vote. The idea of bipartisan of getting

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<v Speaker 1>some people from the other side just seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>completely not even part the equation anymore. You're you're absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>right to the extent Congress does something, and it really

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't do a lot these days. Um, it's all basically

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<v Speaker 1>on party line votes. Party line voting was in the

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<v Speaker 1>six as recently as the nineteen seventies, that's approaching today,

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<v Speaker 1>no kidding. In the seventies it was would vote party

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<v Speaker 1>line another another. That's incredible, that's impossible to imagine. Now, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, And as you say, sometimes we even hold

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<v Speaker 1>the bill in secret. We wait until we have fifty

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<v Speaker 1>one votes in the Senate. For example of our party,

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<v Speaker 1>we spring it on the Senate with very little debate,

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<v Speaker 1>no chance really for amendments, no committee deliberation as much

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<v Speaker 1>as we used to have, and we take a party

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<v Speaker 1>line vote and move on Obamacare party line vote, Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>tax reform, party line vote. We do everything important these days,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like by party line, which makes you wonder

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<v Speaker 1>why even have the human beings there? Why not just

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<v Speaker 1>vote for uh, you know, a Congress representation and then

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<v Speaker 1>a computer votes? Well? Who to all those OsO dramatic

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<v Speaker 1>committee hearings that we all watch on c SPEN. Uh So, David,

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<v Speaker 1>you know this is coming together in my mind. I

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<v Speaker 1>read a piece I believe it was by Kevin Williamson

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<v Speaker 1>who was talking about um and this is similar to

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<v Speaker 1>some of your thoughts as well. But when you have

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<v Speaker 1>a war on something and and the air wars being

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<v Speaker 1>declared all the time now or warlike verbiage being used,

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<v Speaker 1>that justifies you, uh, suspending the standard practices, morality, the

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<v Speaker 1>rights of people, your restraints. I mean, it's war. It's

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<v Speaker 1>all out war. So obviously, you know, if some people

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<v Speaker 1>have to be jailed and killed and heard or that's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>And Denny and and I know you write about that,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're also talking about how once you make that declaration,

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<v Speaker 1>you can be warlike in your passing of legislation to

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<v Speaker 1>get the big war going. That's really interesting to me.

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<v Speaker 1>You're right. I mean, if if you go back to

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<v Speaker 1>lb J and the war on poverty and right on

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<v Speaker 1>through the war and crying, the war on drugs, Carder's

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<v Speaker 1>war on energy consumption, the war on terror, A great

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<v Speaker 1>deal of public policy is done today in the name

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<v Speaker 1>of war. And one reason that's done is it allows

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<v Speaker 1>the federal government to take over things that used to

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<v Speaker 1>be state or local, such as crime or drugs. And

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<v Speaker 1>then it allows the president to take things over and

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<v Speaker 1>rely very little on the Congress because we're at war.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we don't have time for a lot of debate,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of legislative hearings. We were at war. So

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<v Speaker 1>and and of course these wars never end. All of

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<v Speaker 1>the wars I just mentioned are still in effect. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then getting back to the whole party line votes

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<v Speaker 1>thing along with the war. The war is against the

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<v Speaker 1>other party. They're the ones trying to stop all that

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<v Speaker 1>is good and decent happening in the country. So you

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<v Speaker 1>can't you can't beat by partisan and give on anything,

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<v Speaker 1>or you'll be primaried by your own party. Right, So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a war like in every aspect. If you in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>if you if you're in the legislature, if you're in

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<v Speaker 1>Congress and you want to do something by bartisan, we

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<v Speaker 1>call you a gang and put you in a room closet.

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<v Speaker 1>The only five part doesn't work is the gang of

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<v Speaker 1>six or the gang of twelve that decides something has

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<v Speaker 1>to be done and then they have to hide in

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<v Speaker 1>a small office or a broom closet to try to

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<v Speaker 1>work out some kind of arrangement. And then, as you say,

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<v Speaker 1>they're likely to be punished later and by having a

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<v Speaker 1>primary opponent. So it seems easy on those people. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems to me, though, that the public is demanding this.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, the public really punishes people that

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<v Speaker 1>stray away from the well the party line votes. How

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<v Speaker 1>do we get out of this or do we get

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<v Speaker 1>out of this well? I I think that the two

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<v Speaker 1>things that I would think would be important. One, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a baseball cap back in Washington. You can imagine it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's red. It's been worner on a presidential campaign. But

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<v Speaker 1>this cap says, make Congress great again. It seems like

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<v Speaker 1>we do have to make Congress at least relevant again.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it has to kind of claw back some

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<v Speaker 1>of its war powers that it's given to the president,

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<v Speaker 1>has to claw back spending power. Uh. And then second,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to make Congress more deliberate of again. The

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<v Speaker 1>US Senate has long been called the world's greatest deliberative body,

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<v Speaker 1>but it hardly deliberates. I think, for one thing, we

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<v Speaker 1>need to return powers to committees and committee cheers that

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<v Speaker 1>have now devolved to the majority and minority leaders who

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<v Speaker 1>are essentially party representatives. So those are some steps I

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<v Speaker 1>think we could take in the right direction. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I tend to try to avoid cliches, but I can't

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<v Speaker 1>resist in this case. To what extent do you think

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<v Speaker 1>we get the government we deserve? Truly? Well, I did,

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<v Speaker 1>to be honest with you, I do. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>people in Washington are essentially driving this um. Yes, they

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<v Speaker 1>managed to co opt the people in it and get

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<v Speaker 1>them to vote for it. But the people, by and large,

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<v Speaker 1>I think most studies show UH don't share this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of warlike notion of politics, the fact they're relatively disgusted

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<v Speaker 1>by it. But party leaders spend a lot of money

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<v Speaker 1>UH and and the media fans of the flames of

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<v Speaker 1>this sometimes to get people think we are at war

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<v Speaker 1>and we have to hate the other people and we

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<v Speaker 1>have to beat them back. I don't think the people,

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<v Speaker 1>by their nature are really committed to that approach to politics,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think the government and the and the leaders

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington have sort of led us into this. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>The contagion is definitely caught on though. I mean, when

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not doing this, I'm I'm into music and musicians

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<v Speaker 1>and that sort of thing. And man, some of my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite musicians are just permanently angry and way off to

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<v Speaker 1>one side. I'm sure you can guess which side, but um, so, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's out there, it's and it's traffic tough. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even had to give up reading a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite sports writers because they've gone over to the Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I like, wait, I want to read the sports page,

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I talked about sports. I talked about this

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<v Speaker 1>all the time I read. I read the New York

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<v Speaker 1>Times a lot, and it doesn't matter if it's a

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<v Speaker 1>book review or an article about a recipe or a

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<v Speaker 1>sports story. As you mentioned, Trump gets worked in somehow.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't you find a gardening story? Yes, yes, things you

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<v Speaker 1>should grow during these tough Trump times. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just it's crazy, but so because being in the media

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<v Speaker 1>as we are, we've noticed how the fixation on the

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<v Speaker 1>one person, the president, is just so overwhelming, as if

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<v Speaker 1>the president does everything. In our our attitude that the

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<v Speaker 1>only election that matters, as the presidential election filters out

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<v Speaker 1>into how much power apparently the president thinks he or

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<v Speaker 1>she should grab or does it work? That weird hasn't

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<v Speaker 1>worked the other way around. I can't tell, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>I it is ironic because you know, in the earlier

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<v Speaker 1>days of our republic, we thought that the primary representative

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<v Speaker 1>that was relevant to us was our own number of Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>You're right that presidents over time have taken the view that, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're the only one that's really elected by the people.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, those are representatives are just elected by a

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<v Speaker 1>small number of people, were elected by everybody, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least voted on by everybody, and and presidents, I think

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<v Speaker 1>have been very clever and how they amass power using

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<v Speaker 1>executive orders, using a national emergencies. You, you and I

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<v Speaker 1>live under thirty one states of national emergency, which increases

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<v Speaker 1>presidential power. All these wars we mentioned earlier on various

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<v Speaker 1>domestic problems, so presidents have taken over way more power

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<v Speaker 1>than was intended, though I think Congress is acquiesced in

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<v Speaker 1>some of that. They've been happy to give up their

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<v Speaker 1>power because they're cowards, because they don't want to have

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<v Speaker 1>a vote that they could pay held to on a war.

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<v Speaker 1>They just they think the most cowardly track and let

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<v Speaker 1>whoever's president decide. No, you're quite right. I happened to

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<v Speaker 1>be in Washington a couple of years ago when it

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<v Speaker 1>looked like Congress is going to have a major debate

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<v Speaker 1>on Syria and what we should do in that word theater,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought, okay, this is going to be interested.

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<v Speaker 1>But it said they decided to adjourn and go home

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<v Speaker 1>and campaign early. And when Congressman said, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if he was being facetious or not, we just like

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<v Speaker 1>the president to bomb the place and tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>it later. You wouldn't want to take that hard vote,

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<v Speaker 1>which is what happens. That's remarkably candid. I think what

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<v Speaker 1>is it they say a gaff is when somebody accidentally

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<v Speaker 1>catches the politicians telling the truth. Absolutely, it's a tough

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<v Speaker 1>it's a tough environment, and I think it will take

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<v Speaker 1>quite a bit to I think of it as as

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<v Speaker 1>we need to just get out a bunch of tug boats.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not going to blow up the system we have.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like a big ocean liner that's moving forward with

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of speed and power and money. But we're

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna have to get out the tug boats. Better

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<v Speaker 1>civic education, more civic engagement by the people, Congress clawing

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<v Speaker 1>back powers, becoming more delibertive again, it's gonna take all

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<v Speaker 1>those tug boats to kind of nudge this ocean minor back. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that sounds like the sort of thing that happens over decades. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm afraid you're right. It took us a few decades

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<v Speaker 1>to get here. It will probably take even more to

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<v Speaker 1>fix it. Is there even does it does? What's the

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<v Speaker 1>term civil civilian? What's the They used to call it civics?

0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I was hung up on civil Um, does civics classes

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:53.800
<v Speaker 1>even exist anymore? Is that notion anywhere in America's academia. Well,

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.400
<v Speaker 1>that's a big hobby horse of mine that I ride.

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that's part of the deepot problem. Uh. The

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.520
<v Speaker 1>last time American students were tested on civic education a

0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.240
<v Speaker 1>few years ago, eighth graders, which was the only level

0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:12.560
<v Speaker 1>where the test was given, only were proficient in American

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:17.520
<v Speaker 1>history and only were proficient in government and civics. And

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 1>that's that's I think a crisis level problem. And you're right,

0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 1>it's not being taught in the schools. A lot of

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>times when it is taught, it's a very negative view

0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 1>of America that's presented. Uh. And we're training up a

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.720
<v Speaker 1>generation not only to not understand America, but not to

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 1>love America. Right. You know that's the thing. You can't

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.120
<v Speaker 1>even suggest civics and patriotism without somebody, perhaps one of

0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 1>those musicians I mentioned a spitting about you know, jingoism

0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and and you know Indian genocide and slavery and the

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 1>rest of it. I mean, it's just it's like, well,

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 1>getting back to our name, it's all or nothing, one

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.320
<v Speaker 1>side or the other, which is really kind of a

0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>sick way to look at the world. No, and the

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Howard Zen wrote a casebook textbook many years ago called

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>The People's History of the United States. That's one of

0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 1>the most used textbooks in the country. Yeah, if I

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>had a time machine, I'd go back and continually flushes

0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.559
<v Speaker 1>rough drafts down the toilet until it became so frustrated

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.959
<v Speaker 1>he gave up on the shocking to me, that book

0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 1>is actually the textbook in so many classrooms. And you're right,

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's take the Founding for example, I mean

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 1>the Founding and Zen's view was all about, you know,

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.960
<v Speaker 1>wealthy property owners setting up checks and balances not to

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 1>protect the republic, but to protect their own property. Columbus

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 1>and other discoverers were here simply to rape and rob

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.559
<v Speaker 1>and and as my co author of several books, Gordon

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Lloyd likes to say, it's hard to love an ugly founding.

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.199
<v Speaker 1>And so if you portray the very founding of our

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 1>country as something ugly, our our kids are not going

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>to love it. Yeah. Yeah, Hey, this is just personal curiosity, David.

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of off the topic. But I'm always interested

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.600
<v Speaker 1>in how co authors work together, which end do you

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 1>handle in which end does Gordon Lloyd do or how

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 1>do you? How do you mesh that stuff? Well, Gordon

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 1>and I have become very close friends over the years.

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>We started by writing I don't know, twenty or thirty

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 1>newspaper columns together, and then we graduated two books, and

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 1>basically we worked together because we enjoy it and we

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.960
<v Speaker 1>learned from each other. So we get together every couple

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 1>of months for two or three days in person to

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 1>debate and sort out the issues in the book, and

0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.840
<v Speaker 1>then we each go away and do some separate drafting.

0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>In the end, one of us has to do kind

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 1>of the final draft so that it speaks with one voice.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>And uh, we have our little uh, he claims. He

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 1>provides the words and I provide the music, and I say, well,

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 1>occasionally I come up with a word or two, but no,

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 1>it is tricky, but we've certainly learned to do it

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 1>together and enjoy it. You are the president of Pepperdine

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 1>University from five to two thousand. What's your view of

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>college campuses these days? The problem you mentioned earlier, which

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 1>is now politics is everywhere, sports pages, gardening recipes. I

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 1>saw that twenty five years ago in college when political

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>correctness wasn't just coming up in political science classes, but

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>had crept over into economics and into biology and science

0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>and climate change and art. And I think what's happened

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.359
<v Speaker 1>is that that sort of the sixties generation, if you will,

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 1>has taken over the faculties and administrations of lots of

0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 1>colleges and patients with other points of view has disappeared.

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 1>And the irony is what college is supposed to be

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>about is diversity of ideas. And it seems like on

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>campus these days were interested in diversity of everything else,

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 1>but not of ideas. I think it's very unfortunate. Well,

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>it's it's beyond perverse. It's as if hospitals became a

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 1>hostile to the sick. I mean, it's it's why you're there.

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 1>On a similar topic, UM, I know you're a Californian.

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Is there hope for Well? At times I call it

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 1>corrupt Afornia. Times I call it cal Unicornia because we've

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>completely lost our grasp on reality. Is there hope for California?

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm afraid relatively little. I've been here for forty years myself,

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>and and thinking it might be time for me to

0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 1>give up. I sort of have a Pendulou view of

0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>history that things swing hard in one direction and then

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>they finally start to push back. In the forty years

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I've been in California, it's still all swinging politically, economically,

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 1>financially in one direction. Uh when when Jerry Brown was

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 1>the best hope Conservatives head going. You know, you're a

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>state that's that's in trouble. So the only hope I

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 1>really find is occasionally at the local or regional level.

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 1>I just don't see much hope at the state level. Wow, yeah,

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't want to be a down calling

0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Mayflower van lines. Yeah, we don't want to be a

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 1>downer show, downer podcast, just downer people in general. But

0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, not not everything is a pendulum. Some things

0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 1>are just a continuum until it falls apart. The that's

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's the track California is on the

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:09.200
<v Speaker 1>long term, the economics of that don't work. There's probably

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 1>some real reckoning coming in in a lot of counties

0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 1>and cities over the public pension mistakes, and guaranteed the

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 1>state has ignored that even when they brag about a

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 1>balanced budget at the state level. Well, let's add on

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 1>top of that free healthcare for illegals and see if

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.399
<v Speaker 1>that fixes the problem exactly. So, it's a it's a

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:33.159
<v Speaker 1>tough situation and I'm afraid Gavin Newsome and and the

0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>legislature that that has two thirds support of one party

0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>is likely to make things worse. David really enjoyed the conversation.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I hope we can do it again before too long.

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, gentlemen. It sounds like you have a good

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 1>fix on things, and or at least we agree on

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of things. And this is why I drink

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.120
<v Speaker 1>David great to talk to you. Thanks again. Is having

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 1>a good fix on things? Are all going to hell

0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.440
<v Speaker 1>and nothing can be done to stop it? Is there

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 1>any antage to that? Well, at least would you be

0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 1>caught with your pants down or would you be better

0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.880
<v Speaker 1>off thinking I believe everything is fine and we'll get

0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 1>even better. No, if it all comes down, I want

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.600
<v Speaker 1>to be ready a couple of guns better. Yeah, um

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.199
<v Speaker 1>no it yeah. I'm a realist. You can't choose to

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.280
<v Speaker 1>be a realist or not a realist. And it's it's ugly.

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 1>Although getting back to the national stuff, identifying you know,

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.359
<v Speaker 1>the the on the ill health, the problems, the whole

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.879
<v Speaker 1>warlike everything, it just it may take the time for

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.040
<v Speaker 1>those ideas to spread, but I hope they will. I

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:44.520
<v Speaker 1>think it's the consolidation of power and attention, both of them,

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 1>power and attention in the presidency. I always remember Bob

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Woodward talking about in his time in Washington, d C.

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 1>He's seeing cabinet positions go from something important. These are

0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 1>the people that ran the department and advised the president

0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>to Now they're just ceremonial. Presidents now run every department.

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.119
<v Speaker 1>They pick somebody to be the cabinet chief, to go

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 1>out to ribbon guttings or whatever, but the president runs it.

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.959
<v Speaker 1>And it's just so many different things have gone that

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 1>direction of consolidating everything. I make this pledge when I

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.160
<v Speaker 1>am president, y'all can run your department. I may even

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.880
<v Speaker 1>answer your calls. Maybe on my fourth or eighth year,

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I might say, the Department Interior, what do you do? Now?

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>How's it going over there at State? I'm the Secretary

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 1>of Labor, sir? Oh yeah, how's it going at Labor? Good? Good,

0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.240
<v Speaker 1>glad to hear. What do you like better the housing

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 1>or the urban development? Well, sir, I didn't. I really

0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 1>didn't want an answer, but thanks for stopping by. The

0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.639
<v Speaker 1>White House anyway. Here's here's a ceremonial lash tray for

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.919
<v Speaker 1>his souvenir ash tray extra large