WEBVTT - Why China Loves DNA Tests for Babies 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:06.440 Nature versus nurture. There have always been questions about which 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.240 one contributes more to who we all become as adults. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.240 But imagine a future where the way you're raised is 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.600 based on your essential nature, where your parents believe your 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.120 genetic makeup is already pointing you to be a musician, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.720 or a doctor or a math professor, and they're just 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.319 paving the way. All of this is based on the 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.720 results of a DNA test that you've got just hours 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.680 after your birth. In China, that future is happening now. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.480 Welcome to Prognosis, Bloomberg's podcast about the intersection of health 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.640 and technology and the unexpected places it's taking us. I'm 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:49.680 your host, Michelle fay Cortes. Throughout this season, you've heard 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.440 about all the ways the proliferation of healthcare data, especially 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.840 from genetic testing, is creating opportunities and challenges. That includes 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.720 privacy concerns about who gets the information and how it's used. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.440 But that all out embrace of DNA testing is perhaps 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:11.199 even more striking in China. This year alone, nearly four 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.280 million Chinese are expected to take part in genetic testing 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.080 to learn about their families and their health risks. But 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.960 they're also pushing the boundaries of what these test results 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.399 mean and what they can tell us about ourselves and 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.000 our futures. From the very beginning of our lives. There 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.920 are questions about what is scientifically possible or provable. This 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.959 leading edge of DNA determinism is happening in a country 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.440 where the very concept of data privacy and what consumers 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.920 want and expect is vastly different from Western countries. For 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.480 this episode, Bloomberg's Jan hob reports with April Ma and 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.080 Danielle Away across three cities in mainland China and Hong Kong. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:59.400 Here's one with the story. This jogging track in a 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.760 sprawl in Beijing Park has become a regular hangout for 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.200 Lou Fey Long. The park overlooks the lake and it's 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:14.000 nestled among blocks of residential high rises. Well, I usually 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.360 tried to get out here to this park a few 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.360 times a week to go running. The thirty six year 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.520 old investor in Chinese web apps has made his workout 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.760 here a priority after getting a genetics test online earlier 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:34.200 this year. You know what, I have family history of diabetes. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.960 My father and my aunt both heaven and need insulent 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.120 to survive. I do have high blush sugar, so I 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.960 wanted to see if I was also at risk through 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:49.520 a genetics test to the test indicated he's four times 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.640 more prone to diabetes than the average person, so he 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.400 changed his diet and began following the exercise regimen that 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.760 came with the test results and by bidding into that 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:06.120 test tube, blue Joint, China's DNA testing boom. China's consumer 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.520 genetics market reached sales of about one point four billion 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.880 dollars in and it's expected to grow nearly twenty percent 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:19.280 a year through that's according to Research and Markets dot com. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.840 China is one of the fastest growing markets globally for 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.640 DNA tests, and there's dozens of companies to choose from. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.760 There's even a twenty three and me similar sounding company, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.960 twenty three mo funk. They range from big outfits like 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.560 b GI Genomics that's reportedly the world's largest genetics research center, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.400 to lots of small startups like one Gene and gene Box. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.720 That company offers a very basic genome test for less 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.560 than a dollar fifty cents. Yep, that's right, one dollar 0:03:50.840 --> 0:04:00.480 and fifty cents shipping included in justin o those three 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.960 years nearly sixty million Chinese will have given a sample 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.760 of their DNA by taking a consumer genetic test. That's 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.680 according to a Yeo, a Beijing research firm. The country 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.839 is only beginning to grapple with a number of big 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.559 questions like who has access to all that DNA data, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.560 how's it being used? And what happens when an authoritarian 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:27.200 government potentially has access to the genetic blueprint for millions 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.120 of its citizens. And the thorny issues over health data 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.159 protection are surfacing as China becomes something of a wild 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.960 West for genetics. That's thanks to a rapid and mostly 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.880 unchecked growth. Ethical debates were raised just this year after 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.839 Chinese scientists put human brain genes into monkeys and induced 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.440 mental illness in other gene edited primates. But the Chinese 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.719 genetics experiment that caused the loudest international outcry was scientist 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:59.080 Hagen quies gene editing of the embryos of twin girls 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.200 last year. He said he edited their DNA to give 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.880 them immunity to HIV infection. The scientific community condemned the 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:11.760 experiment and called it unethical, including Chinese scientists. Now, this 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.839 kind of gene surgery is banned in so many countries. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.840 Medical and scientific community are very upset about this. They 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.880 are outraged China set his work violated government rules. Still, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.520 the controversy exposed the lack of oversight in the country's 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.760 genetics field. There's a sense that the government doesn't want 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.760 to impose too many regulations because it wants the industry 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.000 to leap frog advances in the US and Europe. There's 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.960 almost no regulation of the consumer market for DNA testing either. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.599 That makes it possible for Chinese companies to give out 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.599 test results that go beyond what American companies would be allowed. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.520 This genetics boom is also happening against the backdrop of 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.200 China stepping up mass surveillance of its citizens. Video camists 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.360 are posted on most city blocks, millions of them, as 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.839 China masses big databases of information on its own people. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.000 There are questions how the growing consumer genetics industry might 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.000 feed into that. And if you ask Chinese consumers about 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:18.600 protecting their genetic code, what makes you you, most will shrug. 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.400 This seems especially true among the many new parents who 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.159 get their offspring sequenced in hopes of discovering innate skills 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:42.360 and future potential. Supposedly written in their DNA. Tama Joe 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.800 Sao Ying is playing with her two year old son 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.560 in their Shanghai home. Days after little bai Ye was born, 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.360 his mom decided to have his DNA analyzed. Testing of 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.880 babies in the womb and as newborns is one of 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.360 the fastest growing sectors of the genomics business. Here what 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:05.000 ina I did it for two reasons. One is to 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.919 know about his talents in the future so that I 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.600 can sell it direction for him. And then I wanted 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.680 to know about his host risks, whether he has any 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.200 genetic diseases, so that I can take preventive measures tell 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.480 you where I am. And with one point four billion 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:26.000 people and competition intents for schools and jobs, parents are 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.880 trying to give their little prints or princess every advantage possible. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.320 The company salesman pitched that the test can show whether 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.040 genetically her day's old son is gifted in arts, music, 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.200 or math. So what did the genetic crystal ball tell her? 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:46.200 Travel ball pen The test results show that my son 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.360 has talent in the arts, especially in music. It says 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.040 he's strong in creativity and weak in sports. I think 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.680 it's very accurate. He's two years old now, and I 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.920 have noticed that he can recognize us song after hearing 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.680 it for the first time. If I asked him to 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.000 harm the song, he can also do it into I'm 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:12.120 surprised before the sales rep swabbed Little by his mouth 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:16.040 with a cotton tip. His mother remembers signing paperwork. She 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.760 thinks the paper might have been a disclosure for a woman. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.280 If it's a piece of paper with writing on both sides, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.280 it contained information about what your DNA is used for. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.720 I didn't look at it carefully, so I don't know 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.640 if there is any mention in the document that it 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.160 can only be used for research and not for other purposes. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.760 I didn't really pay attention. Joe, a former bank employee, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:46.160 sounds casual about protecting her son's genetic blueprint, and her 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.559 nonchalance is in a way a reflection that Joe doesn't 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.120 think that she has any real say over how the 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.240 data may be passed around or used, or whether the 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.280 government might one day access it. Jake don't see as 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.080 an individual citizen, it's beyond our ability to control it. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.679 We have little power. Joe and many other Chinese don't 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.760 think about privacy and the safeguarding a private data in 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.000 the same way as Westerners, and they're likely to view 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.920 the government's reach into their lives as benign. Example, why 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.839 because we are in China. If the government obtains the 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.480 data and uses it for something, we don't seem to 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.120 have the right to oppose it. But I believe if 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.360 our government is doing it, it must be doing it 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.439 for a good cost and will protect our personal data. 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.959 Even some Chinese law experts share the view that government 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.840 access to individual data is not a big deal. Since 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.280 the Indians, I think that when the state collects its 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:52.000 citizens genetic information has a different purpose. Let's leaves shall 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.800 know she's an associate professor who teaches classes in genetics 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.040 law at Peaking University, one of China's top schools palamont In. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:05.120 Commercial companies that are providing genetic testing services are going 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.120 after the bottom line to make a profit, but the 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.680 state is collecting the data for scientific research and for 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.520 the cure of diseases. So personally I trust the state 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:24.120 more because they don't have any commercial intentions. Such an open, 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.800 unskeptical embrace of an authoritarian government's agenda main leave Westerners 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.240 scratching their heads. But let's step back for a second. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.280 The different cultural approaches to privacy comes down to the 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:41.000 word itself. The Chinese word for privacy zine, and the 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.440 characters that make up the word carry the connotations of 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.080 hidden secrets. Tiffany Lee, who is a Resident Fellow at 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.200 Yale Law Schools Information Society Project, points out that cultural 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.600 norms around privacy on the mainland are often more about 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.080 protecting a person from shame rather than the protection of 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:05.640 individual liberty. The Chinese people are more open or less 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:11.680 sensitive about the privacy UH issue. F they are able 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:18.200 to treade privacy, say for convenience for uh sifety for efficiency, 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.880 in a lot of cases, they're willing to do that. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.800 That's Robin Lee, the founder of search engine bai Do. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.000 His comments at a forum in Beijing last year were 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.880 widely criticized online by his countrymen, a sign that attitudes 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.400 may be shifting still. How Chinese approach data protection is 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.480 often shaped by having grown up under a communist regime 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.400 and within a Confucian culture that teaches the government will 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.760 always enact policies for the common good. Contrast, that would 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.280 the US new data protection law that came into effect 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.960 last year that forced multinationals to scramble to comply. Its 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.480 specifically outlines that the protection of personal data is a 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:09.040 human right. China is also taking measures to better govern 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.360 how genetic data is handled. New rules that went into 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.440 effect this month layout protections for consumers. They call for 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.600 companies to inform customers about how their DNA data will 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.679 be protected and give them the right to opt out 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.839 at any time. The good thing is that we see 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.880 that China try to implement this international standard, which is 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.800 the so called prior informed consent for the use or 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.600 preservation collection of the genetic data. That's g On Lee. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.800 He's an associate law professor at the Chinese University of 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.400 Hong Kong and he studies cyber law and privacy issues 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.120 on the mainland. The government is trying to send a 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.400 message to the market that is going to play tough 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:58.320 for the violation of all this genetic information misuse. I 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.319 do expect there will be some benchmark cases, probably in 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.280 the first two to three years. Last year, the government 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.280 handed down finds the multinational farmer company Astra Zeneca and 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.120 five domestic firms for sharing DNA samples or genetic data 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.120 with other organizations in China and outside the country. The 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.280 new rules prohibit the sale of genetic data except for 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:26.079 scientific research and puts restrictions on foreign companies. But there's 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.560 one provision of the regulation that should raise concerns. And 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.199 the other very prominently provision that I see from this 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.840 slow is that they think that the government can have 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.640 access to this genetic data. So for the purpose of 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.520 public health, national security, and um public interests, the government 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:51.160 can access these preserved genetic data. And it's actually not 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.959 very clear. So what is the purpose of public health, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.560 national security and also public interests? National security can actually 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.520 define very browth that might include everything. So what kind 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.800 of genetic information could be valuable to the government. The 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:12.240 coffin might have much more information about your family relations 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.920 or your entstry, or what you did before and even 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.520 for for example, if anyone have any illegmate child that's 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.800 easy to track. So if anyone or if any entity 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.120 has access to that kind of data base or unlimited 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.840 unbalanced access to that kind of data, that would be 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.960 ver very dangerous. Lee believes the government has huge databases 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.560 or can get access to all sorts of information on 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.240 its citizens financial records, did you pay your bills on time? 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.240 Digital payments? How many luxury watches, did you buy speech 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.360 and online activity on the internet. What if all that 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.920 information could be combined on any one individual. Well, there 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.920 is a plan to merge some of that. Some provinces 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.000 have begun to implement what will become a nationwide social 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:07.160 credit system that melds personal financial data with behavior. Under 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.600 this new system, every citizen is ranked if you owe 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.320 money or don't pay your taxes, you run red lights, 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.720 or don't pick up after your dog, then points are deducted. 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.440 Good behavior and deeds like donating blood and money improve 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.360 your score. Those with low credit scores may lose access 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.880 to benefits or services, while those with good credit scores 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.360 are given priority and access. Already, Chinese have been prevented 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.360 from buying plane and rail tickets because of their social 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.800 credit scores. The system is still in its early days, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.600 and there's still debate whether the project is aimed at 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:46.080 increasing surveillance or if it's China's unique way to incentivize 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.520 citizens to uphold laws. Many Chinese are actually in favor 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.680 of the system. They say it promotes good behavior and 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.720 engenders trust. With that unfolding on the ground, Lee is 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.960 concerned what will happen as d NA is thrown into 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:05.200 the mix. There is a possibility that all these different 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.160 kinds of a personal data, including the biological one and 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.440 digital one, will be connected together. Um. But we have 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.720 no idea how that combination will be used against you 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.800 because the technology is still developing. For most of the people, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.800 I don't think they will feel very comfortable, um, if 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.520 they have that kind of information accessed by any other 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.800 parties other than yourselves. Um. Not to mention that a 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.480 lot of information actually is not known to you yourselves. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.680 We were hard pressed to find experts in China raising 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.520 concerns on the government's potential access to genetic data. That 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.840 may be partly because the consumer genetics industry is still 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:50.480 relatively small and developing in the country. Well, I've never 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.320 thought about how genetic testing can be used to maintain 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.680 a stable society. That's lea shall known of Peaking University. Again, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.640 she's trying to figure out the critics, is ms and 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.720 reservations that Westerners have about the Chinese government or police 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:10.800 getting their hands on individual DNA information. How would that 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.320 be possible? Would they find out through gene tests which 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.840 individuals have a genetic mutation that shows they're more likely 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.480 to raise a rebellion. Is that what people in the 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.879 West think that the Chinese government is going to predict 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.360 which people are going to cause chaos through genetic testing 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.160 and then put them under higher surveillance. Actually, some critics 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.760 say some version of that scenario is already playing out. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.080 The United Nations and the United States say more than 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.280 one million weekers are being held enforced re education camps. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.280 There are Muslim ethnic group that's under surveillance. China says 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.720 it's fighting separatism there in Cindio, this region of western China. 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.240 UH the authorities are requiring people from the age of 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.200 twelve to six to all be submitting the d n 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.560 A samples um to be put in a searchable DNA database. 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.920 That's Maya Wong, a senior researcher for Human Rights Watch 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.080 focused on China. The organization says it has documented that 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.600 Chinese police have collected forty million DNA entries from ordinary 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.520 Chinese not connected to crimes. The nonprofit says the nation's 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.719 Ministry of Public Security started building a searchable national DNA 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.639 database in the early two thousands as part of a 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.639 police project known as the Golden Shield. A lot of 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.800 these AI systems then feed into the next layer of surveillance, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.359 which is the use of big data programs by the 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:42.040 police to track monitor people's relationships, where they go and ins, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.280 for example, where this surveillance is most intrusive and visible. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:51.040 That information is also used to um control people's movement 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.800 and also to be analyzed who put certain people who 0:18:54.800 --> 0:19:01.959 are politically untrustworthy into political inductritional Asian camps um So 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.720 in that context, the collection of DNA is problematic because 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.960 it is part of a bigger program of mass surveillance 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.120 and gathering big data of people with the explicit purpose 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.359 of social control. With d NA, police can identify who's 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.520 related to whom once an individual is flagged as suspicious 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.399 or a threat. She says, Entire families could also be marked. 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.320 She says the biological information being collected here could be 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.280 used to isolate a group of people and discriminate against them. 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.879 China's Foreign Affairs Ministry didn't comment on our questions about 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.719 DNA being gathered in Shinjang. At a recent press briefing, 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.280 the Foreign Ministry spokesman said the camps are vocation training 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.800 centers that counter terrorism, and with so many consumer genetic 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.440 companies collecting DNA data. There's concern that Chinese government could 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.800 compel companies to turn data over with impunity. The rules 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:04.120 allow for the Chinese government to basically access data without 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.800 any procedures or legal oversight or any kind of you know, 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.920 restrictions on what they can access and what they can 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:18.600 take um and that has implications well for one billion people, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:27.600 but also some of these companies also work abroad. Here 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.960 at a busy crosswalk in the manufacturing hub of Shenzen, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.040 the surveillance of ordinary citizens is on public display. Across 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.240 the street is a gigantic TV monitor that displays the 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:43.000 photos of people who have gotten caught jaywalking. If the 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.119 software can identify a jaywalker, they're assessed to find that 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:52.760 sent us a text message to their phone. The city 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.679 is also home to the headquarters of genetics Firmwigian, the 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:01.320 popular consumer genetics testing company started into fourteen and has 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.640 tested the DNA samples of about three hundred thousand users. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.679 Company CEO Chung Gung welcomes the country's new rules on 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:14.760 managing genetic data and says they won't disrupt business. The 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.920 genetic data Regien collects from customers is only being used 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.960 inside regien. We have not and will not share such 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.800 data with other organizations. Chun says the government hasn't come 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.200 knocking on its doors about the DNA data it's been collecting. 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.520 And what if the government ever asked for the data, 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:37.879 whether it's a tech company or genetic testing company, we 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.720 may have to provide data and situations where it's required, 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:43.359 but so far there isn't an order on this matter. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.000 If there's a regulation requiring companies to do it, there's 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:56.000 no way a company can refuse. One very significant project 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.639 between the government and a genetics consumer company is unfolding 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.080 here in Shenzen. This hub of more than thirteen million 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.280 people is also home to be Gi Genomics, one of 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.160 the world's largest genome sequencing companies. The firm is also 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.879 the biggest provider of prenatal genetic testing in China. The 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.480 publicly listed company is also charged with running China's National 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.320 Gene Bank, a huge database and repository of DNA and 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.320 biological samples from millions of Chinese across the country, and 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.919 it aspires to be the biggest such center in the world. 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.240 China spent nearly one billion dollars to fund the first 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.760 phase and started the Gene Bank for health and disease research. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.360 Under the new rules, there's a high chance that no 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.760 one will ever know when and how the government or 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.800 law enforcement might invoke public health, national security, or public 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.920 social interest reasons to access the genetic data stored there. 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.520 The rules don't outline a process for checks on the 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.840 government's access. B g I said customers data belonged to 0:22:59.880 --> 0:23:03.560 the those clients and it respects national laws. In other 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:08.280 Chinese cities, some private genetics companies are working with law enforcement. 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.280 A handful of companies advertised as a selling point that 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.399 they share children's DNA data with police. Chinese police launched 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.800 a database in two thousand nine to collect DNA information 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.879 of children. The program is aimed at preventing child kidnapping 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:34.359 and trafficking. Joe is a mom of two kids and 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.160 says she wouldn't hesitate to add her children's genetic blueprint 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:43.919 to police database. Just if your kid does go missing 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.600 and there are still traffickers out there, that's pretty scary. 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.600 We are unlimited as parents to protect our kids, and 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:55.120 if there are other institutions and the government that are 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.040 doing this together for our children, I'm okay with it. 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:07.520 Going to launch of heights do this okay, though the 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:11.840 government's latest regulation on the Management of Genetic material addresses 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:16.840 other Chinese fears. The provision band's foreign companies from collecting 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:20.520 and storing the DNA of Chinese in the country or 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:25.080 sending Chinese data overseas. After China's f d A find 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:29.600 the company's last year from mishandling genetic data, articles circulated 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:33.000 online that the DNA that were illegally exported could be 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:41.320 used by foreign entities to harm Chinese. Here again is 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:44.280 Lou fe Long. He's the web app investor we first 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.840 met on the jogging track at the beginning of our story. 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.680 He's college educated and highly informed. He sees the pitfall 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:58.400 of Chinese DNA in the wrong hands. Larger problem is 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:01.960 if an organization and gets hold up these genes of 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.760 our ethnicity or of Chinese people, they might be able 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.920 to extract from it where are people are different from 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:23.280 others and then target those vulnerabilities. In Beijing, seven year 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.640 old r curator Jung Tang Wawin is working in the studio. 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.879 He and his family members have all given samples for 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:33.080 genetic tests because they wanted to dig into their health risks. 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.800 He's among the minority of consumers who's actually given some 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:40.879 thought to genetic data protection. He imagines the future in 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.520 which the government could use DNA to dictate professions and 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:50.840 life choices in I'm worried that if the government has 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:55.919 control over genetic information, this data will be incorporated into 0:25:56.000 --> 0:26:00.200 each person's idea. Different groups will be separated by their 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:05.040 genetic information. His fears may not be as paranoid as 0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:09.160 they sound. Chinese genetic testing companies now routinely give out 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.280 results that tell customers if they're at risk for depression 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.800 or mental disorders. Parents test their newborns to see if 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:19.360 they're likely to suffer from poor retention and memory. Yet, 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:23.359 despite those fears, John is determined to call valuable information 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:26.960 from his own DNA now before private companies or the 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:30.520 government does. He says everyone should have health data on 0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:33.760 themselves and be able to enjoy the lighter side of 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.720 it too, like knowing if your lineage can be traced 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:41.840 back to an ancient emperor. So Nah, I know it 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.080 all comes with a price. There's no such thing as 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:49.320 absolute privacy. It just depends on the value of the information. 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:52.760 So I choose to overlook it because I'm after the 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:57.119 health information and the entertainment from the testing. I have 0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:00.800 no control over the privacy of the information, and it's 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:04.800 small proactive to get the results now wait for the 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:13.479 day it will be accessed anyway. What this millennial's approach 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:17.280 to data privacy is both fatalistic and proactive at the 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:20.040 same time. If he were in the US, he might 0:27:20.040 --> 0:27:22.639 be among those selling their DNA data in exchange for 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:26.560 gift cards, cryptocurrency, or shares to any number of companies 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:32.000